good day. i'm chris jansing live at msnbc headquarters in new york city. today, republicans are doubling even tripling down in their defense of herschel walker. knowing that winning his race is key to reclaiming control of the u.s. senate. but every day that is looking more and more dicey. at this hour, walker is holding an event in georgia after spending the last four days denying allegations connected to an alleged former girlfriend's abortion. a claim that undercuts his position as an anti-abortion candidate. nbc news has not been able to confirm the daily beast

reporting, but overnight they reported a stunning update claiming the woman behind the allegations is also the mother of one of walker's children. the daily beast explains why they held details about her, the woman, who is a registered democrat and years-long relationship with walker continued after the abortion told the daily beast the chief concern with revealing her name is because she wanted to protect her family's privacy address best she could. walker says he doesn't even know who the woman could be. >> the anonymous woman has now also alleged she had a child by you. your response? >> i say the same thing i said, that, you know, i know this is untrue. i know it's untrue. they keep telling me that and it's totally untrue. i'm not sure why that would be told. i know nothing about any woman

having an abortion and so they can keep coming at me like that. they are doing it because they want to distract people. >> for national republicans the response has not been to run away from walker but jump to his defense. in the last 24 hours, republicans like lindsey graham, ted cruz and rick scott, all of them coming out and insisting the stories are part of a political smear campaign. but it's not a completely united front. today, cracks are starting to show. here's what georgia's lieutenant governor said last night. >> even the most staunch republicans are rattled at the continued flow of information. i think every republican knew there was baggage out there. but the weight of that baggage is starting to feel a little unbearable at this point. herschel walker won the primary because he scored a bunch of touchdowns in the '80s, and he's donald trump's friend. now we moved several months ahead in the calendar and that's

no longer a recipe to win. >> other republicans are saying democrats are pushing a false narrative. a new poll shows inflation and preserving democracy are the number one priorities. opec said they would cut oil production, mortgage rates are at a 16-year high, and global ceos are warning the world may be on the brink of recession. so, we're going to dig into what the biden administration might be able to do about all of that and what it means for you in just a moment. also, jury selection under way right now in new york city in the civil trial of oscar winning actor kevin spacey. he's accused of sexual assault against a teenager when he was in his 20s. what's at stake and the metoo movement in a few minutes. >> we want to start in georgia.

yamiche alcindor is there. jonathan lemire is host of "way too early" and a political analyst and doug high is with the republican national committee. so we learned on wednesday that even while walker is playing defense, he's still raising money. half a million dollars in the three days after this story broke. talk about the impact all this has had on walker's campaign and on the race itself? >> chris, i'm here in wadley georgia, a deeply red part of georgia. it's here where herschel walker decided to have a campaign event today. it is supposed to start in the next few minutes, we know herschel walker is expected to say he will continue to deny these allegations. we're told he'll say that democrats are making this up because they want to stop him from becoming a u.s. senator. just behind me, on this stage,

he's expected to talk to workers here at this sawmill. it's the drip, drip, drip of information that we continue to get that is impacting this race, that's upended this race in some ways with a lot of voters talking about it but not many voters changing their mind. i talk to people who didn't like herschel walker, they say they didn't like him because of domestic abuse allegations, but then you have herschel walker fans who say they don't believe the claims, they believe the woman is lying or some of them say they believe the claims and they're sticking with him because now herschel walker is an opponent of abortion rights and doesn't believe abortion should happen even in cases of rape or incest. the politics are getting interesting. you have the lieutenant governor saying this baggage is possibly getting unbearable for some republicans. national republicans are sticking with herschel walker. he's also fund-raising off of this allegation. >> the daily beast says this

woman, who says she's a mother to one of herschel walker's children, she's sticking by her story. she says walker's denials are ridiculous. hopefully we'll get a couple questions in to herschel walker once he shows up. i'll be watching the stage behind me until then. >> jonathan, in the meantime, walker's position seems like it comes directly out of the playbook of the man who is behind him, donald trump, deny, deny, deny, blame the other side. what we don't know is to what extent it might be working. what can you tell us? >> this is classic trump that when confronted with scandal and controversy, as a candidate in 2016, as president, and then in the 2020 election trail, he would deny, he would never admit wrongdoing, certainly wouldn't apologize. that's what trump has done and that's what a lot of republicans do now as well. walker here, despite if these

reports are true, overwhelming evidence, is still not going to cede ground. to this point, it's working, at least in terms of keeping republicans by his side. yes, you played that sound from the georgia lieutenant governor but his voice is in the minority to be sure. most republicans are still staying with him. they believe that he should win and that's because they're valuing just the idea of one and one thing only, victory. they just want to control of the senate and want the senate minority leader in mitch mcconnell's name, to majority leader. >> i want to play and the republicans are sticking with him, i want to play what ted cruz said. >> do you stand by herschel walker? >> i believe herschel walker will be the next senator.

>> but his own son said his father has lied about the denials, he left his family -- >> and raphael warnock's family gotnasty, too. >> and you want them to elect a republican. >> hell, yes. >> we heard from that lieutenant governor that walker's baggage is becoming unbearable. what are republicans telling you about this race? >> one, they'll back herschel walker as far as they can, if they think he can win. part of that template is the donald trump template of the "access hollywood" tape, on that friday night most of us thought this race is over for donald trump, and it wasn't. the other thing we see, if there's a chance -- if it looks like this is going to sink him, the timeframe is very similar to 2002, where you had a very

unpopular democratic senator, bob torricelli in new jersey who got yanked from the ballot for no other reason than he couldn't win, replaced by frank lautenberg and lautenberg won. so there is still that possibility but time is ticking on that. >> i wonder about the topic. abortion is so much in the political conversation right now. for democrats, as long as they can talk about that, as long as they can remind particularly suburban women voters what's at stake, those moderate voters who maybe might in any other situation go either way, they look at that as a win or is that overstating it? >> you learn a lot about politics by watching college football on saturdays. on saturday, i saw sherry beasley the democratic nominee for senate run ad after ad about abortion. ted budd ran ad and ad about

inflation and crime. we're seeing that the polling is showing the economy is even more of an issue than three, four weeks ago. with gas prices and opec, that looks to be more and more the case. georgia is a special case in this circumstance. >> jonathan, i did show that poll before. it shows inflation is the top priority for voters. but preserving democracy is number two. we saw liz cheney out in arizona yesterday campaigning against republican candidates. >> in arizona today, you have a candidate for governor in kerry lake, a candidate for secretary of state in mark finchem, both of whom have said this isn't a prize, it's not a secret, they both said that they will only honor the results of an election if they agree with it. if you care about democracy, and you care about the survival of our republic, then you need to

understand we all have to understand that we cannot give people power who have told us that they will not honor elections. >> she told us she was going to do this. she's naming names. what's her impact on the conversation or any of the individual candidates that she might be talking about? is there one, do we think? >> well, first of all, it's just striking that she is doing this. once again, choosing patriotism over party. that's pretty unique in today's washington. certainly she is one of only a couple republican voices, adam kinzinger another who stood up to donald trump and his big lie, both serving on the january 6th committee, which will have its next hearing next week. now she's playing this role on the campaign trail where she's going at candidates, big-lie candidates who are election deniers, who have refused to concede that donald trump lost in 2020 and have not vowed to correctly certify the winner in

upcoming elections if they were to take office themselves. it's remarkable for cheney that she's doing this. the impact remains to be seen. she's someone without much of a constituent nationally and among republicans. she got routed in her primary over the summer. some of these races, including arizona, the polls show they're so tight, even if she pushes a little bit, moves the needle away from that big lie candidate, she can play a big role. >> doug, thank you. jonathan, you'll stick with me. we want a gut check on one of those issues that's critically important to voters, gas prices. this week, we learned that starting next month, opec nations will cut international oil exports by 2 million barrels a day and gas buddy says today that could raise the price of gas more than a quarter per gallon. it would essentially reverse what has been a sharp downtrend in prices since the middle of summer when prices spiked over

$5 and leveled off around 3.67 in september. already today the average is $3.87, that's up 20 cents in a month. i want to bring in kayla. you spoke to the national economic council about this, what can they do about it? >> there's a few things they can do with congress' help, but the timetable would not allow them to deliver on the policies before the election. such things like pursuing permitting reform, even pursuing so-called no-pec legislation, that would produce oil producing countries like the cartel that the administration has been critical of. the support within congress is still unclear. what they are still looking at

strategically is releasing more oil from the emergency reserves, these underground salt caverns located in texas andlessless. they already released or plan to release up to 180 million bar barrels, the republicans are pointing that they're at a 40-year low. they say they will utilize it and draw down more of it if they need to. >> it comes against the framework of the global economic issues and ceos around the world are predicting some sort of recession. what could that mean for americans who are already struggling with things like food and gas prices? >> it could mean a lot less security. a lot of americans have been looking at the stock market and seeing it slowly move downward throughout the course of this year. they're feeling uncertain about their 401(k)s, retirement, the interest rate they see on their houses. but there's one piece of the

puzzle, if we go into a recession that would change. that's the job security that many americans feel is a hallmark of this economic recovery and that the administration pointed to time and time again as the singular statistic that means the u.s. is not in a recession. just this week, we saw there are 1 million fewer job openings than there were the last time that the labor department reported that so-called jolt data. just today, we learned there's 29,000 more people applying for unemployment insurance. tomorrow we'll get another read on how many jobs were created in the month of september. that data will be critical about where the economy stands. so many americans have felt empowered to leave their jobs in search of new and better jobs, higher pay. that security might go away if we go into recession. >> what a mind boggling change. it really makes you snap back when you see how quickly things have turned. we have breaking news for you. something nbc news scooped and

has been reported is now official. the next january 6th committee hearing is a week from today, october 13th, during this hour, 1:00 p.m. this is likely the committee's last hearing. it has not released any information about possible themes or witnesses. president biden is in new york state this hour touring ibm, set to speak on job creation next hour. we'll have that for you when it starts. first, will biden's trip to storm-ravaged florida translate with voters? and where recovery efforts in fort myers beach stand right now. and dozens of children killed in a shooting at a day care center in thailand. why the suspect appeared in court hours before that rampage. . don't just connect your business. (dock worker) right on time. (vo) make it even smarter. we call this enterprise intelligence. my name is tonya, i am 42. as mother of nine kids,

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breaking news, it's just a horrific story out of thailand. at least 38 people are confirmed dead including 24 children and a pregnant teacher. officials there say a former police officer went on a shooting and stabbing spree at a day care center. the suspect, while fleeing the scene, drove straight into people and shot bystanders before returning home to kill his own wife and child. then he took his own life. thai police confirm he appeared in the court earlier in the day on drug charges. in florida, hurricane ian is the deadliest to hit the state

in close to 90 years. that storm killing 131 people. a number that's been climbing every day. president biden took in the damage firsthand in hard-hit fort myers, looking at scenes like this from the sky. and on the ground, he and a potential 2024 republican rival, governor ron desantis, put on a united front, one with a shared goal of helping people. biden comforted people there directly, vowing to help them fully recover. shaquille brewster is in fort myers beach for us. shaq, what's the biggest challenge for folks there right now and what are you hearing from them about the president's visit? >> many of them are telling me they don't expect to feel the impact of president biden's visit for months to come because right now they're focused on the recovery and the cleanup. we talk about the cleanup in the fort myers beach area. look at this marina, for example. i spoke to the owner of this marina, the co-owner, he's been

here for about 20 years. you see the destruction here. boats under docks, docks on top of boats. you have them in a spaghetti formation, that's how he'll have to undo this. the docks are not shored. this will have to come out of his own pocket. that's his worry, figuring out how to clean this up and the next steps. i want you to listen to some of my conversation with him about the experience he's been having. >> it's just gut wrenching. >> what has this past week been like for you? >> difficult. i tell people i'm in my second hurricane now, trying to get through the debris. >> it's hard. >> yeah. trying to figure out how we'll rebuild. >> he's had to rebuild before and now he's stuck trying to figure out how he needs to rebuild again. it's not just here at work and

his business, but he also has damage at his home. he got emotional again when he was talking about the fact that his wife and four kids are at home. when he leaves here, he has to worry about cleanup in that area as well. we are seeing some glimmers of hope here. he told me during the interview that he doesn't expect to get electricity or power any time soon, but as i walked every to do this live shot, we saw a power company right in front of his parking lot, in the parking lot of this marina putting up some of those poles. we don't know if that means power will be restored immediately, but you're seeing glimmers of hope across the island. it's so clear how much recovery work there is for people here to do. >> jonathan, it does boggle the mind. you know, these are times when state governments, federal governments are expected to step up. that's what biden was doing there. that's why presidents go to places like that, to assure people that they will. two things struck me. i want your impressions having

covered so many of these kinds stories. one was, there was almost a sigh of relief when you could see that two political rivals can actually have a common purpose, right, put things aside for a day. the second thing was joe biden in his element. we have not seen as much of that, i feel like, certainly through the pandemics. but meeting with people who maybe didn't even vote for him and making that connection. >> yeah. first of all, the bar is so low in our politics right now that it is sort of a remarkable thing when politicians of opposite parties work together and they collaborate. that's what we saw yesterday. certainly governor desantis had some political things to say earlier in the week, claiming the media wished the storm would hit tampa so it would damage his poll numbers. yesterday he set that aside. we did not hear politics from president biden either. the two men were complimentary of each other. they pledged the state and federal government would work

together to help those devastated by this storm. this will be viewed by a political lens. we remember the hug that governor chris christie gave barack obama in 2012 after super storm sandy and how that hug was held against christie four years later. there was no politics. the two men dealt with each other politely and warmly at times. to president biden, this plays into his strengths. this is a tragedy. he certainly doesn't seek this -- unlike any public figure, he speaks about grief and loss because he had so much tragedy in his own life. he is able to provide comfort to people in need and share a few laughs and smiles. he's a retail politician, a tactile politician, even those people there who didn't vote for him, they said they rather liked him. >> jonathan, thank you very much. shaquille brewster, thank you.

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in the last 30 minutes, testimony in the seditious conspiracy trial for five members of the oath keepers militia group focused on some ideas for disguises on january 6th. a former oath keeper just testified that one of the defendants, the group's leader, stewart rhodes, wanted people to dress up. he suggested someone dress as an elderly person or a parent pushing a baby carriage with weapons concealed inside in order to attack members of antifa or black lives matter. let's bring in ken dilanian. what's the latest from inside that courthouse? >> good afternoon. they're on a break for lunch, but the prosecution called its second witness today. as you mentioned, a former oath keeper named john zimmerman. he's a 27-year-old army vet. his main purpose was to give the jury an idea of how the group

worked from the inside. zimmerman caught our attention when he testified that he believe stewart rhodes may have had a contact within the secret service. zimmerman said he heard one side of a conversation between rhodes and someone rhodes claimed was a secret service agent in 2020 before a trump rally in fayetteville, north carolina. he said they were working through the parameter of where and how the oath keepers would operate. obviously it would be a big deal if that turned out to have been an actual secret service agent. zimmerman followed two days of testimony by the lead witness, michael pallian. he was at the capitol guarding senators and he became one of the supervising agents in the investigation. prosecutors used him to introduce recordings and text messages showing how the oath keepers planned to use violence to stop the transfer of power. >> in the last session, prosecutors showed text messages sent by thomas caldwell three

days before the capitol attack. he was suggesting the idea of using boats to ferry weapons across the potomac river writing if we had someone standing by at a dock ramp, one near the pentagon for sure, we could have our quick response team with the heavy weapons standing by, quickly load them and ferry them across the river to our waiting arms. it's a pretty disturbing image. how central is that to the prosecution? >> it's just one example of how prosecutors already have presented very compelling evidence from the defendant's own words about how and why they intended to stop congress from counting electoral votes on january 6th. that includes a tape of stewart rhodes after the 6th saying his only regret was that the capitol attackers did not bring rifles with them and a text message from caldwell saying that if they did have guns, they would have killed a hundred politicians. >> ken dilanian, thank you. i want to bring in the former assistant director for

counterintelligence at the fbi and security analyst. can we get your reaction from what you heard so far? >> this trial has already given us evidence that should shake most americans to how close this came to worse violence on january 6th. you have the recorded voice of stewart rhodes saying my only regret is we didn't bring those staged rifles into the capitol with us. now the provocation plans we're seeing about trying to provoke the insurrection. remember, you can't defend yourself by saying we were just waiting for the president to invoke the insurrection act when you're planning to trigger that very insurrection. >> so there's another key piece of evidence, stewart rhodes again before the 2020 election in which he said "we are not getting through this without a civil war." immediately online mentions in the civil war go up exponentially. they really went crazy after the fbi search of donald trump's

mar-a-lago home. the "new york times" wrote about this. posts on twitter that mentioned civil war soared nearly 3,000% in a few hours as mr. trump's supporters blasted the search as a provocation. and then they also report that the pace peaked at 15,000 tweets an hour later that evening. from a national security standpoint, what should we make of this? >> this is a textbook example of language as a reflection of radicalization. the study of the use of language and phrases is no longer some archaic academic thing but should point us towards predictive analysis. i'm noting the change of the use of the phrase from culture war to civil war. the change of we have differences and beliefs on how to govern versus we'll have to act out physically and

kinetically to get what wewe wa to accomplish. >> can we talk about where we are as a country in terms of focusing on these kinds of online threats, plans, even just mentions? back when i was in the obama white house, there was a big focus on a lot of home-grown terrorists. but when you look at this kind of thing, how do they look at this and how do they balance it against what we always have the argument about, which is free speech claims? >> the answer to your question is with great difficulty. it's a monumental task for sheer volume and numbers alone to try and filter all of the potentially violent indications that occur online, number one. number two, we are understandably constrained because we have freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, we don't police ideology. we almost have to wait for the violence to be articulated

before someone moves in. but, at least when we're filtering and screening phrases like civil war, that is helpful to indicate where and when we should be concerned. but it is a task -- we still don't have a domestic terrorism law that would allow the law enforcement intelligence communities to reach and go, that's a problem. let's get on that right now before something happens. >> that brings us to january 6th and one of those injured in the insurrection, michael fanone. he talks about the way some republican leaders in the senate reacted when he told them the terrible things that had happened to him. he said senator mitch mcconnell was too busy to pleat with him. senator lindsey graham he wrote at one point as i was describing the assault in the tunnel, noting we were vastly outnumbered. graham interrupted, he said you

should have shot them all in the head, graham said. we gave you guys guns, you should have used them. i don't understand why that didn't happen. around the room, jaws dropped. i said, i appreciate your enthusiasm but there are rules that dictate what we can and cannot do when it comes to the use of deadly force. from a law enforcement standpoint, what do you make of that exchange? >> my lord. so there's a complete misunderstanding and dismissal of rules of engagement and the use of deadly force that govern law enforcement. so, can you imagine if that had been done? the restraint shown by the capitol police in the district, the metropolitan police, was admirable, but if they had gone outside their operating policies and used deadly force against this crowd, we would have had a massacre and we would be right back at the civil war language that we're talking about. that could have prompted an incredible fracture in our society. i think graham is out of place

here. when we look back at this period of time, we'll call out the leaders who refused to say something about what happened to these police officers at the capitol. >> frank figliuzzi, how long has it been since you have been in the studio? >> since new york closed down. moments ago the herschel walker campaign event in georgia, we showed you that, we mentioned that, it finally got under way. he's now speaking to voters. if he takes questions from reporters there, we'll go to it live. on the front lines, ukrainian volunteer soldiers who liberated the kharkiv region from russia are recounting harrowing stories of battle. stay tuned for this next. >> when you see this, how are you feeling? >> angry. angry. angry angry. whenever heartburn strikes get fast relief with tums. it's time to love food back.

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intentionally plowing through a christmas parade last year in wisconsin. the defendant, darrell brooks is representing himself and he's back in the courtroom after the judge kicked him out this week for being so disruptive with moments like these. >> mr. brooks, we're having issues because of you. >> i'm not going to let you intimidate me -- >> i'm not intimidating you -- >> you can't, you see that. >> don't -- >> you clearly see you can't intimidate me. >> today he sat for a long time with his back to the judge. she had to ask him to turn around. he's accused of killing six people and injuring dozens more. if convicted he could spend life in prison. in ukraine, we have a rare look inside a village just ten minutes from the russian border where a group of regular citizens just fought back the russian army. only months ago they were gardeners, farmers, but as they told erin mclaughlin, they traded in their normal lives to defend their country.

>> reporter: in ukraine, the road to moscow is littered with the remains of russia's fail attacked on kharkiv. miles from the border is this destroyed village. a ukrainian commander takes us into the forest and shows us where the russians were holed up. >> it's russian stolen -- >> reporter: they stole it and put the z on it? and pushed out following an intense artillery battle. >> in one hour, 240, 250 ammunition come here. >> reporter: it's difficult to believe all this was liberated with the help of a brigade of ukrainian civilians. what started as a group of 35 untrained men, in two months he helped transform into a battalion of more than 200. >> we have guys who only want to fight. they don't want money. they don't want -- they want to kill russian because they want to protect country. >> reporter: basically, you have

taken a group of people, men, that have never been on the battlefield before? >> they take rifle like automatic machine gun. what's this? >> reporter: including a farmer who says he loves to grow sunflowers, and a masseuse who goes by the call sign buga. buga shows us the dark and damp makeshift bunker where they endured bombardment. it was scary for everyone, he says. i understood that i might die. many already have. some in this very forest. >> two days ago in this area, die my friend. >> reporter: my god, your friend died? >> yes. >> reporter: how in. >> three guys died. >> reporter: when you see this? how are you feeling? >> angry. very angry.

i want to kill russian, everything what they do with my country. it was my people. >> reporter: he says his men are unfazed by putin's move to mobilize hundreds of thousands of reservists and the tens of thousands dodging russia's drift. when you see the lines of cars leaving russia, russian men running, what's your message to them? >> you good guy. go away. do something for your country. i hope you never come here. if you will come, you will die. we fight not like soldiers. we fight like free people who fight on freedom. we fight for our freedom. >> reporter: erin mclaughlin, nbc news, ukraine. >> our thanks to her and owl our reporters who remain there. actor kevin spacey back in court nearly five years after being accused of sexual abuse. a report from the courthouse and the precedent this could set for future trials next.

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herschel walker talking to the media. >> mothers of your children? >> no. >> why not? >> why do i need to? >> because, according to the article, one -- the woman who says you paid for her to have an abortion is alsochildren. it seems like that is an easy way -- >> according to the article, i had more kids. i said no, and that's what i mean no, i said that's a lie and that's what i mean, that's a lie. >> yes, let me go to her. >> you said there is nothing to be ashamed of. >> right, i said -- >> no, what i said -- >> i was talking about something totally different. i said it was my ex-wife, in my past, and nothing to do with what this woman said. i said this here, the abortion thing is false, it's a lie, and that's why i said, i said anything to happened to my ex-wife or what christian was talking about, i don't know. but as i said, there's nothing

to be ashamed of, with her husband, and my wife, and that's the thing i said, and i said nothing about if it did happen, because i said that's a lie. let me go to somebody else. over here. go ahead. >> what's your reaction to the mother of your kids, saying that you're lying, what's your reaction, and being so close to you that they don't trust you? >> just like what i said, the democrats are desperate for seeking that reporter and i love my family and i always love my family, i know i'm going to win this race. >> rafael warknock -- >> is he going to be there? >> he's going to be there, if you're telling me he's going to be there, are you going to be there? >> yes. >> okay. so i'll see you there. >> lieutenant governor, went on tv, i think last night, and very critical words of you, saying

that the republican water was in disarray, and i think it is a direct quote, paraphrasing it, the only reason he is a republican nominee because he scored a lot of touchdowns. >> who did you say said that? >> jeff duncan. >> what is he doing now? >> lieutenant governor. >> what is he doing now? working for who? going on tv and talk a lot. no, no, going on tv and talk a lot. right now, people like that, people talking about football, so do you know me basically out there, i will win a seat for the georgia people. the georgia people need a winner, they don't need no one that we see going on right now. >> appreciate it. >> herschel walker, repeatedly denying accusations that he paid for a woman to have an abortion. jonathan le mire is back with me, we talked about this earlier, the play book of donald trump, deny, deny, and deny, and

simply claim i'm going to win this race. >> yes, more of the same from herschel walker there. he didn't have a lot to say. very short answers. but what he did say was simply denials, that he didn't pay for an abortion, that he wasn't sure what this woman was talking about, he said that the harsh words from his former wife and his son, he didn't know what that was, suggesting it was even a democratic plot, and he repeated that he loved his family no matter what, and then he seemed to try to have a little fun there with a reporter about the upcoming debate with the incumbent democratic senator rafael warnock. not a particularly illuminating exchange, other than he will give no ground. that is the trump play book. no explanations. no apologies. don't give an inch. stay high with the denials and hope that's enough for republican voters in the state of georgia. >> and seeming to try, but not really having maybe any specific ammunition to criticize the lieutenant governor of georgia, who said that the reason, and

you heard the reporter say that, that the reason that he got the nomination, was because he scored a lot of touchdowns back in the '80s, and he seemed to be trying to imply somehow this is a guy who goes on tv a lot, is that what he was trying to accuse him of? >> i mean that's the best that i could come up with, too. it didn't make a heck of a lot of sense, which frankly a lot of herschel walker's comments don't. but in this case, yes, you played it earlier in the hour, lieutenant governor of georgia, a republican, was critical of walker, said he was only the party's nominee because he was a famous football star, at the university of georgia and then on to the nfl, and that he wasn't really qualified, that he certainly, the lieutenant governor suggested that walker's baggage was getting the best of him right now. and walker tried to suggest that he just was someone who went on tv, he didn't seem to take his criticisms particularly seriously and certainly said it wouldn't stop him from running and winning, he says, this race. >> it is going to be interesting, though, isn't it, jan than, and i wonder what your anticipation is, he was asked about the debate that is coming

up, there has been back and forth about whether he would participate in a debate, he just indicated that he would indeed, this likely to be their only debate, and i wonder first of all, how many people will be watching and making decisions or if everything here is already baked in? >> well, we seem to be in a moment where debates are becoming far less frequent for campaigns, and this campaign that was won in pennsylvania, mehmet oz, and we're not sure what debates we will get, but the debates this time around, georgia and pennsylvania, as well, hugely important. as it will be a moment for candidates who have a lot of questions attached to them and certainly no more so than herschel walker and we will have an opportunity to try to explain, they will have an opportunity to try to explain themselves. and republicans will stay with republicans and democrats, not, and this one is expected to be

very close. there is that thin sliver of independents of undecided who might break one way or the other and those are the ones we need to be watching. >> as much as we follow this day in and day out and minute to minute there are others who are out there doing other things and might watch the debate to figure out how to vote the way they do in a race that could make all of the difference. jonathan, thanks for sticking around for the however. we appreciate you. that will do it for this hour. make sure to join us every weekday at 1:00 p.m. on chris jansing reports. another live vane we're waiting for, in just minutes, president biden is expected to speak in poughkeepsie, new york about creating jobs at a time when we learn in a poll that it is on top of voters mines. katy tur is next. voters mines. katy tur is next business. (dock worker) right on time. (vo) make it even smarter.

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good to be with you. i'm katy tur. the president is on the road again today. this time focusing on the economy and job creation, and you will remember that back in august, he signed the chips bill into law, and it included $52 billion in federal subsidies for advanced manufacturing. well today, he is touting the benefits of that new law. he is in upstate new york, in poughkeepsie, at an ibm plant. there he is right there, the company will be announcing a flew $20 billion investment in semiconductor