good to be with you. i'm katy tur. we will start today in moscow with reporting on the ground in just a moment because if you were like me this morning, did you not need coffee to be jolted awake. the news alerts that president biden was warning of nuclear arm get written more than enough and like you, i'm trying to figure out what exactly changed and how worried we should all be. for months we have been hearing from u.s. officials that they didn't really want to publicly engage with a hypothetical even nuclear weapons and that vladimir putin was a rationale actor, but then last night, president biden told the crowd at a democratic fundraiser in new york that the end, the end might actually be near. saying, quote, we've got a guy i know fairly well. he's not joking when he talks about potential use of tactical nuclear weapons. or biological or chemical weapons. because his military as you

might say is significantly underperforming. we have not faced the prospect of armageddon since kennedy and the cuban missile crisis. okay. so was this a planned remark or something off the curve? were we supposed hear it? was vladimir putin? there is news from russia that even those within his inner circle are starting to get upset about how the war is going. rumblings that are now public. on saturday, a key putin ally, allies planned to top a russian general in a post and another putin loyalist came out in agreement. how much pressure is vladimir putin really under internally? and where might that push him? derrick kimball with back with us, he is the executive director of the arms control association, and we spoke with him back at the beginning of russia's ukraine invasion, he warned of exactly the situation we find ourselves in right now. >> despite the problems that the russian army is having, they still have the preponderance of forces.

russia does not want to get the united states or nato involved here. but it does worry me how this thing might wind up and the fact that vladimir putin is under severe stress and this is a man who has the sole authority, like joe biden, to launch thousands of nuclear weapons. so this is a dangerous moment. it's a reminder that we still live in a nuclear age. >> we also have general barry mccaffrey, two years ago, he wrote an op-ed in the seattle times warning we were ten years from the brink of a possible nuclear weapons disaster. but first, as promised, let's go right now to moscow. joining me now from there, is nbc's chief international correspondent keir simmons. how is this being received over there? and what can you tell us about what it is like in moscow right now? >> reporter: well, when we talk to people on the streets of moscow, they are as frightened as anyone, any american would be, by the idea of, of some kind of a nuclear armageddon or

nuclear war or the use of a nuclear missile. it is tense here on the streets, more so than i have experienced it this year. when i flew in yesterday, i was stopped at immigration for an hour, i was questioned, they went through my phone, and that has happened before, but it just gives an indication of the anxiety if you like. and one of the things that is fueling that anxiety is the question of the nuclear escalation fear, if you want to put it that way, but also the fact that this draft of 300,000 russian men is reaching into families, to sons, and husbands, and fathers, and of course, that really brings home what is happening in ukraine, to people living in russia. so there is all of that. and we did speak today to a russian expert on these things, who said that russia's nuclear doctrine really doesn't limit the powers of president putin to using a nuclear missile, even a

tactical nuclear missile as it is called but obviously, as you mentioned, he is up against a wall, and he is facing choices in many ways and that is one of great fears here, i think that's what president biden was indicating, an interesting question you asked there whether it is a message to president putin, and if you want to get a message to the russian president, it would be to make headlines in the american media, and the question is, what is the threat, and is it what president putin wants. >> certainly scary. keir simmons, thank you very much. let's go to kyiv, in ukraine where we will find nbc's cal perry. we are getting the moscow side of things. what is being said, what you are hearing there in ukraine?

>> well, listen, the ukrainian president has said from april that he expects russia is going to use some kind of a nuclear weapon, and april was an interesting time frame to say that, because that's when we saw russia having battlefield losses in substantial ways. that is when the ukrainian counter offensive really started. that's when russian soldiers withdrew from the areas in and around kyiv and basically started retreating. recently, in the last week, we have seen in the east and in the south the ukrainian military on this lightning strike, punching through the russian lines but more interesting than that, we've seen russian troops just abandon their post. and the kremlin said that russian troops were redeploying in a tactical manner, and that has everybody here thinking tactical, maybe a way of getting those groups back, and then using some kind of nuclear weapon, or some kind of chemical weapon. in the last 24 hours, the president here, zelenskyy said to the bbc there should be pre-emptive sanctions, harsher sanctions on russia because as he said, vladimir putin is preparing russian society for

the use of one of these weapons. so they point to things like kadira who you introduced our audience to earlier saying a low nuclear weapon should be used, he has been promoted to a general inside the russian army. this is something that people follow closely for all of the obvious reasons. they are distributing iodine tablets here to front line workers in the event of a nuclear attack, would be in charge of the evacuation. and it is a very real fear and connected to the battlefield gains. and which makes this, not that the war is a win situation, but it is a no win situation, wins on the battlefield and they are worried about a scorched earth policy by vladimir putin. they spent three months under intense shelling and air strikes and intense combat in kherson and they feel like they have just broken out and here we go talking about again nuclear weapons. >> i think it is worth also saying against what keir was

saying a moment ago that people there in moscow are frightened just as people here in the united states are frightened, and people in ukraine are frightened, as i would imagine, some people are now frightened in europe as well. i want to play a little bit of the interviews that keir did earlier today, with some folks there in moscow. let's listen. >> are you surprised by the nuclear threats? >> no. >> you're not? >> no. >> this is all a political game. just words. muscle play, he tells me. >> we don't need it. we don't want it. >> it's a scurrilous story. >> a political game. you've been there, and going back and forth since the beginning of the war. how does it feel different to you? >> well, look, kyiv is back on its feet. the city is bustling. people are in restaurants. there are no men around because the men are at the front and you

pick up these signs that things are not normal and we hear sounds of war, in and around kyiv and you never sure if it is training or actually happening. and the people here, again, are steadfast. they put out this outwardly strong face that we are succeeding, we are winning this war, but at the same time, so many of their kids are going to school in poland and so many of their relatives have left the country and are dying or have died, or are wounded in hospitals, and there are funerals on sunday, and so it is this sort of balance between the public relations battle that ukrainians are very good about putting out this image of a country fighting for its own survival, which it is, but it is a country paying the heaviest price in death, in blood, and losing a generation, and again, as you rightly pointed out, people in russia are scared and so many russian soldiers we should say, if we take american intelligence at their word, so many rush were soldiers who are dying here didn't know what they were doing, didn't want to come here, didn't have the training, didn't have the equipment, and were just slaughtered. >> cal perry, thank you very

much. and joining me now is msnbc military analyst and retired four star general barry mccaffrey, involved in the planning and possible deployment of nuclear weapons, he was also a principal arms control negotiator with the russians during the strategic arms reduction treaty, also known as start, and the director of the arms control association darryl kimball which we played a moment ago. and i read the op-ed that you wrote from the seattle times a couple of years ago saying that we were possibly ten years away from a nuclear disaster, only two years ago that you wrote that, and how do you feel about it now? >> look, the ukraine society has clearly teed up a confrontation in which poor mr. putin is watching the wheels come off the russian army. they are a disaster. stupid generals in disciplined

brutal battalions, his call-up of 300,000 con scripts, arguably, he will get less than 25%, and more than 300,000 have fled the country and international political pariahs and the mi is probably going to change, probably permanently and in that environment, he is articulating publicly, which is often heard of, a rational argument for deploying nuclear weapons. it is illogical. putin knows full well you cannot fight a strategic nuclear war and survive. if we allowed the russians to have an unimpeded first strike on the united states, the resulting counter-attack by u.s. navy uber submarines would put 950 nuclear weapons into russia, and end it as an organized society.

so none of this language makes any sense. i don't think it's logical to think we're going to face this. but putin personally, his political life is at stake, and so mr. biden properly is taking this into account. >> has something changed in just the last few days? with those comments from vladimir putin, talking about nuclear weapons, how are they so much different than the comments he's made in the past? because i've heard, in just in recent weeks, a high level national security officials saying they believe that vladimir putin is a rational actor. would they still believe that after this? and with the president making the comment about armageddon, general? >> well, look, you know, again, there's absolutely zero possibility of anybody logically coming up with a good idea and having tactical nukes against ukrainian, and whether it is a clean ukt weapon or 10 ukt weapon, i've spent a lot of time

watching u.s. national strategies, the single integrated operational plan on nuclear carpeting against the russians, who what would be the target be in ukraine? take kyiv and murder 100,000 civilians? putin seems to be threatening nato and the west. when you really consider going after and killing 5,000 u.s. soldiers, navy second airborne, in poland? i don't think so. none of it makes any sense whatsoever. but he is using this language. the national tv pundits, with the subtitles, all of them are talking as if these are rational options. firing nuclear torpedos at the united kingdom and having a tsunami roll across the country. it's just completely crazy talk. so i think it's a bluff. he doesn't know what to do. he's caught in a box. he has no good options remaining

on the table. but again, if you are the president of the united states, or if you're the nato collective leadership, you have to take this possibility into account. >> you touched ton a little bit but i'll go to you on this, darryl, using a tactical nuclear weapon, which you know, up until now we've been talking about well, if you did do it, the response, what would be the response be from the rest of the world, because if you respond with a nuclear weapon against russia, that would unleash a torrent of weapons. if he were to use a tactical nuclear weapon, within kyiv, and the general was just talking about the likelihood of that, but if he were to do so, what do you expect the response from nato and the west to be? >> well, we are, as you were asking before, we're in a slightly different situation than we were in march and april, when putin made his first threats, which i interpret to be back then about keeping the united states and may toe out of the fight in ukraine -- nato out

of the fight in ukraine. what he said now, is that he might use nuclear weapons or any means necessary, a veiled threat, to defend russian territory and by implication the territory that it claims it seized in ukraine. just recently. so that's why we're talking about tactical nuclear weapons. which are not any smaller, not any more devastating, not any more logical as general mccaffrey said, it is completely illogical to be thinking about using nuclear weapons of course in this or any conflict. but he's raised that possibility. so if he were to use one, two, three lower yield nuclear weapons, launched onshore to shore missiles from russian territory, president biden and nato would have a terrible set of choices. on the one hand, how do you prevent russia from taking further genocidal actions? but also, how do you prevent

this from escalating to what general mccaffrey was talking about, which is direct conflict between nato and russian forces, which could and probably would escalate to all-out nuclear war, and the use of the long range strategic weapon. so i think from everything i hear from president biden, he is trying to tell president putin, don't do it. no one can win a nuclear war, therefore a nuclear war should not be fought, there will be consequences, he has not said exactly what and i think that is wise, because if he said precisely what he would do if putin did x, y, or z, that would give pute afternoon road map to figure out what he could and could not do and to game it out. i would counsel against a robust immediate response, because that could only lead to further escalation. we need to pursue, i think, in advance, because of all of the options after this are bad, what can we do now, before the fact, not after the fact, to persuade

putin's generals, his advisers, his allies, in beijing, new deli, to make the case to him, that using nuclear weapons, even threatening nuclear weapons against ukraine, is against every interest, everything that he's about, that russia's about, and would sink the world into disaster. >> daryl kimball, general barry mccaffrey, i have about 20 more questions for each of but we have a ton of news today so he will have to leave it there. thank you very much. federal prosecutors say they have enough evidence to charge hunter biden. what charges will they bring? plus, a long strange trip from nix ton biden. how we have arrived at new federal legislation for marijuana. legalization, excuse me, for marijuana. and hip-hop fab 5 freddy is here to talk about it. days after an sproefb report on the herschel walker pay for a woman's abortion, the campaign

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federal agents investigating hunter biden believe they have enough evidence to support charges for tax crimes and making a false statement in connection with the purchase of a gun. that is according to the reporting from the "washington post," which cited some people familiar with the case. now, it is not up to agents to ultimately decide whether to file charges but d.o.j. prosecutors, the justice department has declined to comment. in a statement to nbc news, a lawyer for hunter biden responded to the report saying in part quote it is a federal felony for a federal agent to leak information about a grand jury investigation such as this one. it is regrettable that law enforcement agents appear to be violating the law to prejudice a case against a person who is a target simply because of his family name. with me now, is nbc

investigative correspondent tom winter. so tom, what do we know about what the federal agents have and what that might mean for prosecutors? >> well, we know that they certainly have hunter biden's hard drive which is probably a pretty good place for them to start. we know they have been talking to people, that they have been questioning people, and we know it just from chris clark, his attorneys on the statement, that there's a grand jury that is involved here. so that's the basics of what we know. and it sure appears at this point based on our prior reports and our current reporting that this is primarily focused on his taxes, whether they were filed correctly and whether or not they were filed on time correctly and on the income side and the expense side, that the numbers that he filed lined up with the reality. and that's what they're trying to determine at this point. and so it's not surprising to me that agents, just based on the emails and things that we've seen might believe, on its face, that there could be potential charges here. but as you and i both know, there is a lot of information that comes up in the course of these cases that is presented by

defense attorneys, that it comes up in the course of interviews, that might persuade prosecutors otherwise. >> so do we have any idea what the time line might be? if they believe they have enough evidence right now, what would that say to the time line of whether prosecutors might decide to pursue some sort of case? >> well, as you well know, whether or not the agents believe will is enough to move forward, it is kinds of immaterial to some degree, because it is ultimately prosecutors who go to a grand jury and ask for that indictment, ask for them to vote on it. so there are obviously, they are obviously not at that stage yet because he has not been charged. and we should note of course, that he has previously said that he has done nothing wrong and he doesn't believe he is guilty of any sort of crime. i think when you look at this, even though the justice department guidelines about political prosecutions don't perhaps perfectly fit or bring in hunter biden as far as what they had set out before and the specifications of that, i think it is highly unlikely they would make any sort of decision prior to the midterms.

it is just somebody who is closely connected, obviously his father is the sitting president of the united states, and so closely connected to the politics, that they would make that determination. prosecutors have to look at, is there any sort of exculpatory evidence here? are there any sort of mitigating factors? and they also have to look at, what have we charged in prior instances? so if we have similar types of cases and similar types of fact patterns, what have we brought before? and that is something that should historically be looked at the same, whether it is tom winter, hunter biden or taty tur or somebody off the street and i think they have to make those type of determinations as we move forward as to whether or not they will ultimately bring the charges and they could do a civil, that doesn't involve criminal charges. >> and you have just launched me into my next question which i will go to barbara mcquade for. in hearing tom talk about what they might have charged before and using that as a launching point for what they could charge now, do you know of any parallel

investigations or parallel cases that they might be looking to? >> it's difficult to assess, because we don't know exactly what the claim is in this case, or frankly the amount of any fraud. and that dollar value often triggers whether a case will be prosecuted or declined from prosecution. one of the things tom sort of suggested there is something that's set forth in the d.o.j.'s principles of federal prosecution. just because the government can file charges does not mean that it should. and that's often a point of disagreement between investigating agents, and federal prosecutors who have the authority to exercise their discretion, and also the responsibility to stand up in a courtroom and ask the jury to return a guilty verdict. and so it sometimes requires not just a violation, but an egrecian violation, and also the law requires as an element willfulness. that means not just the person paid too low of a number in taxes but that they knew they were paying the wrong number and

also that they knew it was illegal. tax cases are unlike most cases where ignorance of the law is no excuse, and tax like other complex areas of the law like securities fraud, campaign finance, export control, requires a much higher level of showing willful intent. and so that could be a factor that in this case could cause prosecutors to decide to decline prosecution. >> there is also a little bit of news regarding donald trump and the classified documents at mar-a-lago. the department of justice suspects former president trump, this is according to nbc news reporting, might still have more documents from the white house, that maybe they still have not gotten all of them, despite what they were handed over, and what they were able to get in the search of mar-a-lago. there's been speculation out there that more documents could be at maybe one of the his other private residences. what can you tell us about why the federal government might

believe that they don't have everything? >> well, as you might imagine, katy, the government keeps a record offing wills, inventory of classified documents. most of the printed copies of documents are just printouts of documents that were created on a secure computer somewhere. and so they know that they've got this document on the server, and yet they don't have the copy that was printed out. where did that go? and so that could be a reason for this. it could also be that they're just simply aware of certain documents that exist and yet do not have them in custody, for example we heard mention of a letter from kim jong-un and from barack obama, about good luck to you in your presidency that was left for donald trump on his inauguration day, and so there are likely documents of which the government is aware, and now that they've had a chance to go through the inventory of all of the documents, they find that they're still missing, so they're somewhere. of course, they're all of those empty file folders found in narlg previously contained some

sort of classified document. where did those go? i think that probably accounts for some of these questions. >> barbara mcquade, thank you very much. a senior member of the proud boys, jeremy, pleaded guilty to seditious conspiracy charges. the north carolina man is the first member of the extremist group to plead guilty. he previously cooperated with the january 6th committee and has agreed to cooperate with the d.o.j.'s investigation of the hate group's role in the insurrection. this comes as the oath keepers trial wraps up its fifth day. where stewart rhodes and four of his associates face similar charges. the penalty for seditious conspiracy is up to 20 years in prison. and a crisis two years in the making. why republicans ignored every single warning about herschel walker. and president biden takes the first step toward decriminalizing marijuana on a federal level. but what about the states?

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richards nixon declared this country was in a war on drugs. he set his sights on marijuana, calling it public enemy number one, a gateway drug, saying once you cross that line from the straight society to the drug society, it's marijuana and then speed and then it's lsd, and then it's heroin and then you're done. to stop it, nixon created the d.e.a. and made pot a schedule one drug, among the most dangerous out there. since then, nearly every president has contended with what to do about marijuana. in the heady days of high times and cheech and chong, president carter writing popular opinion endorsed legislation that would decriminalize an ounce or less and it did not pass, and ronald reagan was very much in the war against it, starting the just say no campaign and dare, and a cracked egg on a stove warning this is your brain on drugs and the skyrocketing rates of

incarceration because of the punitive policies that targeted even the smallest possession. pot stayed such a taboo that in 1992, then candidate bill clinton had to make this absurd claim when asked at a forum about whether he had used drug as a student in the 1960s. >> when i was in england, i experimented with marijuana a time or two and i didn't like it. and didn't inhale. and never tried it again. >> did not inhale. under clinton, the arrests kept happening. under george w. bush, drug enforcement got militarized, and by 2008, more than 40,000 para-military swat raids were conducted on americans every year. mostly targeting nonviolent drug offenders. perhaps because of those stream measures, public opinion was starting to shift. so much so, that when president obama was asked about drug use, he felt comfortable enough to own up to it. saying he inhaled frequently when he was younger. he even okayed the d.o.j. to look the other way, the cole

memorandum, saying given the department's limited resources, it would not get in the way of state legalization. so long as it stayed in the state. hello colorado. now a short nine years of that withal misof voters okaying recreational pot, president biden saying it is absurd for the federal government to consider marijuana as dangerous as heroin, and more so than fentanyl. and that is officially pardoning everyone kbikd of simple possession under federal law. and because most convictions were made at the state level, he is also urging all 50 states to follow suit. joining me now is hip-hop pioneer, and cannabis activist, fab 5 freddy. also with me is democratic candidate for u.s. senate, in louisiana, gary chambers. he released a viral campaign ad back in january, advocating for legalization, and an end to arrests for possession. while he was, lighting up a

blunt. we talked to him about it before. fab, i will start with you. the reaction to president biden, knowing full well that at a federal level, there aren't very many people who are incarcerated for simple possession. >> you're right. in fact 2021, katy, only 149 people were incarcerated for simple possession. which just means like possessing a joint or two, on federal property, like a state park or something. but you know, bernard noble, a gentleman from louisiana, the same state that, you know, that gary's from, he was given a 13-year sentence for two joints worth of cannabis, and i covered this all in the film i made called "grass is greener" and inspired me to get involved to create a cannabis plan in his name, be noble, and we are raising awareness about the injustices that are still going on. biden made a good decision in

the right direction but we need many more steps bought the majority of these prisons are state prisons, tens of thousands there, and we need to get to the bottom of this, as well as safe banking. people in the cannabis business have to haul huge amounts of cash around, because we can't use the federal banking system. >> you can't use credit cards. because it's federally illegal. again, that's something that would need to change. gary, or candidate chambers, i should say, what do you think of what he's doing? i mean this is something that you have been advocating for it. is something that you say would make a big difference in louisiana, the state you that are running senator for. >> i think it is important that the president took this step. these are things that president biden talked about, as candidate biden and so whenever somebody delivers on that as promised i think we should commend them for it. i think it is a first step.

i think legalization and full legalization is what is necessary and i think the president was right to encourage governors to do their job. here in louisiana, kevin allen is in a penitentiary serving a life sentence for cannabis, for less than a gram of cannabis, that is unjust while people make billions of dollars off of it, i live in a state with 48th ranked education system and colorado is fourth and spending millions of dollars on cannabis, i believe it is a gateway drug, a gateway to build jobs and bridges and roads and fund our education system. so i'm in this race here in louisiana, against a senator who is polling at 51%, and we could put another democrat there that could help us deschedule cannabis, if we do our part november the 8th. >> this came as a surprise, this announcement, we are just over 30 days from the next election, the midterms, do you think, gary, that this is going to make more folks turn out? >> i hope that it is.

i hope if you look at, i think if you look at what the president has done in the last few weeks, student loan forgiveness as well as this, i think it is a tactical strategic move by the biden administration, in order to get democratic voters, young voters engaged in the process. i think that it was a smart move. and so for those who have been concerned whether or not the president was going to move on these issues, i think the timing of his move was strategic, because we know that sometimes voters vacillate between elections and in order for us to ensure that we get stability we got to do things to incentivize people to go vote and i think had is this is a -- this is a method to incentivize people. >> biden mentioned it many times while campaigning and something told me something was going to happen as we get close to the election. but we still, i want to emphasize, we need many more steps. because simple possession, it's a start, but what the states

have, bernard noble was given a 13 year sentence for simple possession up to two joints in the state of louisiana and served seven years and there are tens of thousands of people need their records expunged for nonviolent cannabis, and that's what noble is about and i support gary chambers by the way. >> and talking about more steps. you mentioned one of them. what else could president biden do to make this better for folks around the country? i mean there's been so much research done to say that people should not be criminalized for this, and put in jail, that it doesn't lead to stronger harder drugs and ruin lives. >> i think i would like to point out, whenever i'm having these conversations that first and foremost, cannabis has killed no one. 100,000 people a year die from alcohol usage. and we have that as a regulated industry. we've all got some in our homes.

and we manage it. there's no medicinal value to alcohol usage. cannabis has confirmed medicinal value, so there is a great help. >> there and it was purely race six that got cannabis put on the schedule next to heroin. i mean come on. so we need a road map as to how to descheduling starts and when that will start and also say thank you. people, it is dispensaries on the west coast violence, because of the tremendous amounts of cash and when it comes to the east coast like in new york, it is going to be crazy. so we need some good legislation and let's get this going, come on. >> and what about the taboo, gary, when you talk to people on the street about marijuana use, they might tell you in private conversations, do they want to make it public, and they feel uncomfortable their employer knowing about. it even though it is

recreationally legal in so many states, legal in even more states that have it for medical purposes, and even though our culture is moved so far past it being, you know, a thing that you hide in the corner of the street, talking about it publicly, it is still hard for folks. how does that change? >> you got to put that into perspective. this is the first time a president of the united states is taking a bold position like this. i'm the first u.s. senate candidate to smoke a blunt in a political ad the way that we did, and so the country is moving, and with everything, it's a slow progress there. but i think that when you look at it, the 19 states, legal, 37 states have recreational, i mean medicinal cannabis legalization, i think as we progress, if things are going to even out over time, and listen, we're not saying that we should glorify smoking cannabis, what we're saying is people should not be

criminalized for smoking cannabis and not incarcerated for it and there should be no one in jail for this plant, while there are people making a profit off of it. and so i want to be clear, that in this quest for us to push for the economic justice, for the criminal justice reform necessary, that as we break this stigma, we've got to be clear that this is something that people should have an option to use, not something that is glorified in the process and something that could be big business for a lot of places like louisiana with an economy 47th in the country and 48th in safety and crime and i believe we rank 48th because we rank in that area for opportunity. and i am supporting the work to put john kennedy out of office, so you can get a u.s. senator, in the u.s. senate, that is going to push for cannabis legalization, and the banking that fab is talking about and all of the work what is bringing us to true justice on this

issue. >> democratic candidate for senate in louisiana, gary chambers, and fab 5 freddy, thank you very much, gentlemen. we obviously will be reaching out to your opponents in your race, mr. chambers. thank you very much. and democrats have come close in north carolina, but have not been able to climb that mountain in a few election cycles. will this senate candidate change that? live in raleigh. and first up, republicans knew about herschel walker's past but could not stop his candidacy. the "washington post" ashley parker joins me on a gop crisis two years in the making. precisey 600,000 vehicles passing through their uk port every year. don't just connect your business. (dock worker) right on time. (vo) make it even smarter. we call this enterprise intelligence. if rayna's thinking about retirement, she'll get some help from fidelity to envision what's possible and balance risk and reward. and with a clear plan, rayna can enjoy wherever she's headed next.

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we call this enterprise intelligence. they saw it coming. even before the latest scandal rocking herschel walker's senate campaign in georgia. the "washington post" reports for two years republicans knew they were stuck with a problematic senate candidate they saw it coming but decided they could not stop. one of the authors of that piece joins me now, "washington post" senior national political correspondent ashley parker, who is also an msnbc political analyst. so ashley, what exactly did they see coming? >> so initially, they saw all of this coming, not quite this latest daily beast story about the abortion scandal, but very early on, when herschel walker was getting ready to run, first of all, peter mcconnell did not want him to run, and then herschel himself, in georgia, he

tried to recruit top talent consultants, the sorts of people you would want on your team if you were running for senate in the state, and after meeting him, they had a number of concerns. their friends and friends of herschel walker, they had flagged some issues he had, including stuff that was in the public record. so that in and of itself was concerning and troubling, including some of the allegations of domestic violence and abuse, but what was also troubling to them was how he handled questions about it. when people on his own team, or the team was trying to get to join him, asked him about it, which you do when you're running for office, right, do you sort of, you go through the opponents and what they will come after you and how to handle it and we get aggressive and offensive at the same time and accuse them of democratic plants for allies of mitch mcconnell and very quickly some of the top talent in the state said this doesn't seem like a campaign we would like to

associate ourselves with? >> why did they stick with him? >> some of those people did not frankly, and he did eventually get a team, but the sort of question is, why did nobody really rise above to challenge him? why didn't someone like peter mcconnell not go down there and try to get maybe a better candidate, a less controversial candidate, and there is this sense among establishment republicans, even in the state, that he is a hero in georgia, you know, you talk to somebody down there, a consultant, my earliest memory of herschel walker winning the heisman and i never lived in a home that didn't have some sort of photo or icon graphy of herschel walker and he is like the pope to us, and that sort of combination and folk hero legend and combined with the fact that he had former president trump's endorsement, no one was lining up to challenge him, so a lot of people kind of held their nose and said well, maybe we can get over the finish line with him.

>> still pretty close. herschel walker has denied the story about the abortion, and said he doesn't know who it is, even though the daily beast has followed up with reporting saying that he actually had a child with that woman. and nbc news hasn't verified it. but he has also come out, ashley, he said listen, i have made mistakes, i've done bad things, but i have been reborn. i'm a different person. he said there's a written book about it, by the grace of god, he is a changed man, and that seems to be playing well at least quite a few voters in georgia. you've got some quotes in. it i will vote for herschel walker. i don't care if he performed the abortion himself i will vote for him. a georgia republican consultant told you that. >> that's exactly right. i mean that was sort of the first ad that they came out with after this scandal broke, kind of saying, as you know, i struggled with mental health, i've written a book about it, but for the grace of god, i've overcome it, and when you talk to a lot of people, including that consultant, it's less about

that, and it's frankly more about cynical politics. which is that it's not just that he paid, allegedly paid for this abortion, it's that he is a candidate running on an absolutist stance against abortion and including no exceptions in the case of the rape or incest or health of the mother and a potential hypocrisy, and they want a republican in the senate seat to they're willing to overlook that. >> ashley parker, thank you very much. coming up next, we've been following georgia, as you just heard, but what about north carolina? the senate race is close. and it is definitely playable. (vo) with their verizon private 5g network, associated british ports can now precisely orchestrate nearly 600,000 vehicles passing through their uk port every year. don't just connect your business. (dock worker) right on time. (vo) make it even smarter. we call this enterprise intelligence. trelegy for copd. [coughing]

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(vo) with their verizon private 5g network, associated british ports can now precisely orchestrate nearly 600,000 vehicles passing through their uk port every year. don't just connect your business. (dock worker) right on time. (vo) make it even smarter. we call this enterprise intelligence. . tonight in north carolina two candidates are set to debate in an increasingly tight race for the u.s. senate. new polling shows democrat and former state supreme court chief justice cheri beasley, only 1.5 percentage points behind the republican congressman ted budd in a state donald trump won twice. joining me now from raleigh, north carolina, is nbc's antonio hilton. it is close there but north carolina has a history of voting

democrat as well. >> reporter: that's right, the margins in this state tend to be really tight. so tonight's debate is going to be interesting. i think people have slept on this race a little bit. but these two are in a statistical tie. and what you're going to see happen tonight is they're tempt to draw a contrast to reach. so folks here in this very purple state who are in the middle so you will see representative budd try to make the argument that beasley is far to the left, that she's soft on crime, that she's going to support biden policies that will hurt your pocketbook, and then you will hear beasley talk a lot about abortion rights about, her record as a judge, support of civil rights issues, and she's really going to try to paint budd as an extremist, on everything from election integrity and denialism, to women's reproductive access. take a listen to the two talking about each other. >> we know about this absolute ban on abortion that congressman budd supports, that there are no exceptions for rape or incest or risk to a mother's health.

and what that means is for women who are sexually assaulted, that they will have to carry these pregnancies to term. >> she's anti-police. which is, you know, she's voted, or she supported defund the police movement, done fundraisers with leaders of defund the police, and law enforcement organizations which have previously endorsed her, as to who she was, that leftist judge, now said whoa, this is too much. >> reporter: democrats are paying increasing attention to this race now. in fact, a pac associated with the majority leader schumer has invested about $4 million more into this race, and i think you can expect to see people pay more attention to the debate and going forward in the next couple of weeks, a lot at stake in terms of the balance of the senate in north carolina. >> we have been talking about georgia a lot but north carolina can be that state as well. antonio, thank you very much. and that will do it for us today on this friday. hallie jackson picks up our coverage next. r coverage next. undetectable, cabenuva is the only complete,

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as we come on the air, we're looking at markets taking a dive off the new economic data out today. you see wall street down two-plus points at least on the dow. we will talk about why the markets are not liking what they're seeing and what it all means for the fed against inflation. breaking down the numbers for you, including some big disparities about who exactly is jobless out there. all as president biden last hour defending the administration's economic response in a visit to maryland. you know what he is not talking about? the fallout from