♪♪ tonight on "the reid out" -- >> if you're the president of the united states, you can declassify just by saying it's declassified, even by thinking about it. because you're sending it to mar-a-lago or wherever and there doesn't have to be a process. >> if you laughed at the former twice impeached president who said you can declassify with

your mind, he also said wherever you're sending it. doj believes he still has documents you shouldn't somewhere. back up against the wall, losing and facing dissent from high ranking insider. and biden with a threat to the world assessment. those rallying to herschel walker's defense must have known it could get worse and it did. jason johnson in for joy reid. reporting says even after 18 months, multiple requests from national archives, federal subpoena and fbi search of florida estate, government believes the president still hasn't returned all the documents he took from the white house. top intelligence official jay bratt communicated the

complaints to the lawyers. unsure if there's evidence or just a suspicion because of the 58 empty envelopes with classified markings they found at mar-a-lago. one bunch he did return before leaving washington, related to 2016 probe into russia's links to the trump campaign. it was in such disarray, when trump gave it back, doj couldn't tell which were classified even a year later. and he tried to make the documents public the night before he left office, issuing a declassification memo, like he knew he couldn't justify declassifying it with his mind, and also meeting with conservative writer john solomon, who was allowed to read the documents.

none were officially released. joining me now to discuss all of this, john brennan, former cia director and msnbc analyst and coleman, former prosecutor and msnbc analyst. the legal parts, this seems crazy to me. if the federal government says give me what's in your pockets and you don't give them what's in your pockets, why can't they just arrest you? explain this to me like i'm 6. why can't the department of justice just arrest donald trump right now for not turning over documents that he has no right to have at this particle point, explain it to me. >> that's a straightforward question and i'll do my best with straightforward answer. answer is probable cause. doj and merrick garland have to

articulate with reasonable certainty that a crime has been committed by the fact this individual has these documents, or they know he likely still have something left. i think doj is proceeding carefully about making allegations in court of law before they know with high level of certainty that's the case. that's the issue. they need to be able to establish probable cause that a crime has occurred, at this point they don't necessarily know they can do that or don't feel confident in their ability to do that. and they're not necessarily certain which of the numerous violations we've seen so far they're looking to charge donald trump under. so because of that, that's likely why we have not seen arrest or something move forward with indictment or prosecution of donald trump. it is about deciding where there is the strongest aspect of probable cause and what law they want to apply.

>> i insist that if i left my job at verizon, walmart or chipotle with bank records and didn't bring them back, i'd probably be in handcuffs right now, but that's fine. former director brennan, this occurs to me, story going on for weeks about the documents, fact that trump had these documents, some have been turned over, some we believe he still has, what is the range of dangers that the united states and our allied security apparatuses are in right now because we don't have accounting of classified and semiclassified material? what is the ongoing danger we're facing because of the shenanigans with the former president? >> it's clear from the photos and reporting that's come out that these documents at mar-a-lago that were illegally moved, retained there, contain

some of the most highly sensitive, restrictive intelligence that the u.s. government holds. it's unknown what exactly is in those documents. but i know what some of the programs involve, some sensitive programs. could be very things into what adversary is doing, assets, human and technical put at potentially great risk. why it's incumbent on the intelligence community and fbi to do as thorough investigation as possible to take measures to mitigate whatever damage or danger is out there right now. fact that trump and his lawyers continue to proceed with delaying tactics has prevented the fbi from doing the investigation that's necessary to protect national security

interests. >> got to say, there appears to be rift going on right now according to "new york times." outreach from the department of justice prompted rift among mr. trump's lawyers how to respond, one a cooperative approach with bringing in outside firm to conduct a further search for documents, another advising a more combative posture. combative camp won out. here's the issue i have here, charles. you say it requires probable cause and he decided combative. documents he didn't have the right to have, that he misplaced and didn't use properly. some came back in such damaged and confused form, didn't know what was what, big mac stains and coffee stains, all this nonsense, former president trump and his allies could be held

accountable for just damaging, national security records? i don't understand why we're having conversation how he gets to decide to come in and answer to laws that immediately apply to rest of us. >> that's interesting question, jason, reminds me of something i learned early on in law school, the law is what is boldly asserted and plausibly maintained. very clear based on the competing camps of lawyers, they're making bold assertions around trump's ability to have these documents in his possession. they believe through the courts, whether it takes a day, month, week, year, however long, they're going to be able to plausibly maintain that and they're hanging their hat. we're seeing that take place. danger, you hit the nail on the

head, at some point, particularly for those in the know, know factually that donald trump had things in his possession asked to turn over by national archives and fbi and did not turn over to the department of justice. at some point those individuals become liable. which is why there's a reticence on behalf of his attorneys to make hard and fast commitments to what was allegedly declassified and/or commit to the fact he no longer has documents in his possession. they know making those representations for those who know otherwise and are informed, that has penalties and consequences with them as well. >> former director brennan, one of the things overlooked in far right responses, and the public at large doesn't recognize, trump owns a lot of properties,

mar-a-lago, trump tower penthouse, national golf club in bedminster, a lot of property and things outside the united states. do all the properties need to be locked down with yellow tape around them? it's likely in weeks, almost 18 months of stalling at that point, he might be moving packages back and forth and could be playing whack-a-mole for years as they continue to sell the documents or give them to individuals who would be a danger to national security. >> it's a nightmare. we know that donald trump never believed that government rules, regulations, practices and policies applied to him. he would just do what he wanted to do. also my clear understanding, the security practices that govern the handling of classified intelligence at the white house were abandoned in his

administration. it's clear from the way the documents were intermingled with other things when the fbi was able to retrieve them there, was no practice whatsoever in terms of trying to understand and know where the documents are, what records there might be. we know these were found in mar-a-lago, but your point is apt. what else might be out there, mar-a-lago and other properties that trump owns? that's why the intelligence community i know is trying its very best to get as much insight as quickly as possible into the range of documents, intelligence that might have been compromised, because as you pointed out earlier, many aspects of national security might be hanging in the balance. >> charles, i want to make sure we hone in on this as well. because of the inappropriate, unprofessional and quite frankly dangerous by these documents

have been handled by trump administration, there is need for haste on the part of the doj. is there any concern this absolutely unnecessarily, and i will say cautious, borderline cowardly approach to prosecuting this president continues to open the door for other people in his administration to abuse these former documents? seems the longer this takes, more emboldened they are, and less likely we are to have them turn over additional documentation or continued risks we might have. >> may be a little bit of a reach. people who try to assume that level of cover not being donald trump and having resources he has at his disposal are taking a serious gamble and testing the doj in way i wouldn't advise. i wouldn't advise donald trump to test doj in way he is. story won't be told until we see what happens with merrick

garland, how methodical the doj is proceeding. it is unusual to have this amount of insight into any investigation that the federal government is conducting in a criminal matter. usually don't even know this. in this case only so much we do know. only say that because there are years that investigations go on. in this case it's going to take until the conclusion of the matter before we know the full story of what doj and merrick garland are doing. >> director brennan is staying with me. up next on "the reid out," president biden's chilling warning about nuclear weapons, using the word armageddon. "the reid out" after this. arma. "the reid out" after this. nsurae on a fixed budget,

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last night president biden delivered a dark warning about the state of the world. during a democratic fundraiser, he said the world hasn't been this close to nuclear armageddon since the cuban missile crisis. comes as vladimir putin and his allies continue to dangle the prospect of nuclear war in ukraine. russian backed chechen leader casually urged putin to use low yield nuclear weapons in ukraine after protests at home.

so continues to say the nuclear posture hasn't changed. biden's comments, while terrifying, come as russian forces continue to suffer losses in south and east. ukrainian forces recovered six regions. posted a four-minute video message criticizing generals and ministers for their failures and suggested that vladimir putin's close friend and defense minister should kill himself. he was that specific. another public humiliation, two russians fleeing military service landed in alaska, and requested asylum in the united states. thousands of russian men have fled since putin called up 300,000 of them for military service. according to the "washington post," inner circle member voiced disappointment to the president over his handling of

the war. late this afternoon, ukrainian authorities discovered another mass grave of 180 bodies near recently recovered town in eastern ukraine. director brennan and also hawk start with you on this. the last time i heard somebody in their 70s talk about armageddon, it was stephen tyler telling me not to close my eyes, don't want to miss a thing. when the president of the united states uses those terms, how dangerous is that for allies and others in the world to hear. it's not we're in danger but harkened back to the cuban missile crisis, is this something to walk back or stand by him to show how dangerous it is. >> i'm shocked we're living with

threat of nuclear war, thought it was something boomers were supposed to solve for us. but threat of mutually ensured destruction is doctrine of deterrence, if you launch, somebody will retaliate. you have massive stockpiles, what can happen as result of the first use is the problem. that is what president biden is reminding not just the country and us but putin directly. this is a message to him. very limited channels right now for the united states to diplomatically speak to the russian government. this was pretty obvious way to remind putin there are risks with his discussion and continual raising of the united states of nuclear weapons. something he's done and tried to

normalize since he invaded ukraine. >> this also strikes me, putin rattling sabers over the use of nuclear weapons. as practical matter, how does that in any shape or form align with his stated goals? putin's goals were denazify the ukraine, liberate russians who couldn't get back to home country. how do nuclear weapons fit into that goal or is it just to threaten or bully rest of nato to stay out of the conflict? >> doesn't help his goals if the quest is bring ukraine into the russian orbit, he's destroying a lot of ukraine and tactical nuclear weapon would do more along those lines. but russia has suffered numerous

losses and ukrainians are on a roll. concern that president biden is stating, putin sees this as existential threat to his survival as president of russia, might he opt for something as tactical nuclear weapon, which has the potential to escalate rapidly. all hoping he's not going down that nuclear route. but we cannot be dismissive. he may opt for these tactics that are not going to advance his military objectives but going to do it as way to -- after the saber rattling, to try to reverse course and his fortunes on the battlefield. >> can i jump in on the back of what john just said, tactical nukes, that's key thing, short range, localized targeting, that putin has the ability to impact

ukraine directly without necessarily having it spread to nato allies or necessarily the united states. that goes against what the united states has been trying to do all along, contain the war in ukraine. provided billions of dollars of military support to ukrainians but not enough to take the war to russia and have it be about the united states going against russia, we wanted to contain it. idea of nuclear weapon used even in limited capacity as such a nuclear weapon can be, does bring up the threat other people will get involved trying to contain the problem. >> i want to follow up, we want the war contained to this space. goal is help ukraine recapture territory, not take the war all

the way to downtown moscow, but what i'm also seeing, curious to hear from both of you on this actually, what is is the role domestic strife in russia is playing in what putin is saying and how president biden is responding? protests in the street of russia right now. people don't want to do this. soldiers fleeing. reports now of russian soldiers in a panic, and in some cases, ukrainian residents hiding russian soldiers who don't want to fight the war. with the war as unpopular as it is in russia, will the domestic strife led to putin backing up? >> that's the logic behind sanctions regime, tighten the grip, isolate russia enough, but the people face the sanctions,

oligarchs don't. fell prey to putin's propaganda, the media space and orthodox church aligned with putin in favor of this continued invasion of ukraine. seeing numbers like 70% of the population supported this, until they had to send their children off to war. right? that's when you start seeing drafts implemented -- we saw this in the united states -- imperial ambitions get checked. if the united states had a draft rather than all volunteer army, we would have seen something different play out in iraq and afghanistan as well. >> how do you think the domestic strife and pushback and jailing of opposition activists heightened in russia, could it

impact putin's rhetoric and continuation of the war? >> unfortunately putin doesn't seem to be affected much by antiwar sentiment in russia. going to create problems to him. he's more sensitive to criticism from his right wing, those advocating a stronger push in ukraine and encouraging stronger tactics, including using tactical nuclear weapons. putin doesn't like to be perceived as weak and i'm concerned right wing advocates of war have his ear and are pushing him to double down. i do hope antiwar activists in russia will let their voices be heard to try to get some rational decision making in the kremlin, which has been absent

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fight to elect candidates to support gun control measures could not be more important. more than 500 mass shootings already this year. that's why connecticut senator chris murphy and california governor gavin newsom effort to raise $1 million for seven races to take on the gun lobby. senator murphy has been committed since the sandy hook massacre in his state in 2012. parents had to deal with their tragic loss and relentless trolling and harassment for people who believe the shooting was a hoax thanks to years long campaign by alex jones who finally faced repercussions when jury ruled he owed parents of a victim $45 million, and now deciding what he owes eight other victims' relatives.

went home for the night but continuing deliberations next week. testimony has been gripping and saddening. >> thing to lose a child. quite another thing when people take everything about your boy, and your surviving child and husband and everything you ever did in your life on the internet and harass you. >> it's just so hard to see your 7-year-old child's headstone, to hear people were desecrating it, urinating on it, threatening to dig it up, i don't know how to articulate what what that feels like. >> jones testified earlier he's done apologizing to the family members. joining me, senator chris murphy of connecticut. it's great to speak with you. and i -- these things are always personal before they're

political, how do you actually feel when you talk to these parents who weren't just victimized first by having their children shot but have been victimized for years by alex jones, when you're done talking with them, does it leave you enraged, do you feel satisfied he's facing some consequences? what are the personal feelings you have when you think about this every day? >> this is personal to me on two fronts, first, so many of the families from sandy hook are close friends of mine. you were just putting on the screen mark barden, a great personal friend. also personal because i've got two young kids as well who go to public elementary and middle school every day, they have to think about things in schools and classrooms that previous generations didn't have to think about, just surviving the day. i'm furious, that's my basic

emotion here, real fury at alex jones for putting the parents through this misery. many had death threats, had to move several times to flee the harassment. also fury at my colleagues. we took a big step forward this year on making some down payments on gun safety but we have a long way to go. these are close personal friends in sandy hook and fact they're victimized over and over and over again is heartbreaking and enraging. >> so you're going to take the fight to the public. out there, raising money for congressional, senate candidates, people in tight districts, to raise awareness and keep people paying attention to the issue of gun violence. when you talk to people in the street, pollsters, trying to help the fellow democrats win or retain their seats, where has gun violence fallen? seems like publicly all we talk

about is abortion but gun violence is day in, day out issue for people. is it still top issue or do you remind them about it? >> good question, but absolutely a top two or three issue, polling backs it up. every parent out there thinks about this when their kids go to school and gratified by progress we made, but know it's not enough. fundraising campaign we're running through the night, nr8.com to donate to the eight candidates, it's trying to build on progress. beat the nra first time in 30 years this summer but wasn't enough. and nra wants to come after those of us who voted for this legislation. they want to repeal bill we passed. we've got to hold to the progress, that's why picked

eight candidates and campaigns vital to growing the gun safety movement and asking people to support the campaigns to send a message to the nra and all the families out there grieving that we're going to take this issue, run on it, win on it, then legislate on it. >> it's so easy, i try to avoid it as host and as a political scientist, not prognosticate too much, there's a month out, a lot can happen. but as experienced politician, people are probably seeking advice from, as you're going out and raising money, what frightened, discouraged or concerned democratic voters and independents need to hear right now. polling numbers, don't know if red, blue, purple wave. what do you want people to know about the importance of their vote no matter where they are in the country in relation to this

issue? >> well, right now there is no way to capitalize on this bipartisan coalition without democrats in charge of the house and senate, right? what we discovered, there actually is a bipartisan group, comprises of all democrats and handful of republicans, that can pass gun safety measures. in the next congress we could pass universal background checks but only if democrats control the house and senate. why is that? because the majority of republicans will still oppose the measures. if republican is speaker of the house or senate president, they're not going to call the bills up for a vote because it divides their caucus. democratic senate and speaker of the house will put bills on the floor that we'll continue to pass with some republican support. that's in the weeds, for for

folks who want to tighten the gun laws and protect the kids in schools, that will not happen if republicans win control of the house and senate. everybody needs to know that making their choices. >> every single vote matters, can't afford to give up either house. thanks for what you are doing for sandy hook families and families across america. thank you. who won the week ahead. first, republicans in panic mode about the disastrous candidacy of herschel walker. plus biden's big move on marijuana and more. right back. a and more right back or an unbearable itch. this painful, blistering rash can disrupt your life for weeks. it could make your workday feel impossible. the virus that causes shingles is likely already inside of you. if you're 50 years or older,

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you know things are bad, like real bad michael jackson, when your own stunt reignites a family beef on twitter. georgia antiabortion senate candidate herschel walker. denied that he paid for former girlfriend to have abortion and woman is mother of one of his children. not where the scandal ends though. woman has told the "new york times" that walker also urged her to terminate a second pregnancy two years later. says she ended relationship after she refused. what senator warnock had to say. >> we've seen disturbing things and disturbing pattern. and it raises real questions

about who is actually ready to represent the people of georgia in the united states senate. >> wait, you mean blatant political hypocrisy can carry consequences in today's republican party? according to cnn, campaign cut ties with political director for apparently leaking to the press and read the tea leaves a long time ago, top gop operatives were concerned about walker's past when he considered running in early 2021. host of the new show "masters of the game," and democrat democratic strategist. start with you, we haven't talked in a while. i have to ask, this is fascinating to me. as african-american voter, when you see the republican party put forth a candidate like herschel

walker, what does it say? of all the qualified, intelligent, capable republicans that you could have put up for that office in georgia, they picked a noneloquent african-american man with a history of being physically abusive to women and not taking care of his kids? >> i'm not sure why we would start the conversation assuming there are intelligent and reasonable black republicans in the state of georgia at all, this may be the best person they have for the job. look, i find it hurtful and offensive he's not raised many of his children, hypocrisy around abortion is troubling, but don't have to go into the personal stuff to understand that herschel walker should not be in most exclusive club in america. he does not have intelligent ideas or effective way of expressing them. represents a frightening

development in the post trump politician who thinks just with bluster, gas lighting, personality and some resume items from long ago, that alone should be enough to elect him. does this man have the ideas and brain power to actually be an important and valuable member of the senate? all the evidence so far points to no. >> from just a pr consulting standpoint, you're in the war room right now, herschel walker has come in, mumbled through a rallying speech and you all have to come up with language to bail man out. it's georgia, going to get 42% to 44% of the vote no matter what. but what could he say at this point to rationalize or somehow justify this past behavior and square it with the policy positions he's mumbled since running for office?

>> i mean it's quite frankly too hard to grab, right? could own up to all of it, frankly, and given the way republican voters are, having lower expectations of their candidates when it comes to being consistent on abortion, not abusing women, consistent on having thoughtful comments to put to the with a flashlight, i don't frankly think they're concerned about that. our side of the aisle, that's what we're concerned about with our candidates. but here they thought could get away with the name i.d. from being a football hero in the '80s and probably a manifestation of what their voters think of black men, this is what we have. >> trying to elect someone as eloquent as a stirred bowl of

alphabet soup, i don't think you care what they are going to represent to the people. sound from debate in arizona, blake masters gave up the game about the big lie and what that means and want your thoughts on the other side. >> joe biden'sbiden, absolutelye president. duly sworn, satisfied, the legitimate president, in the white house. >> was the election stolen? was it rigged in any way shape or form? enough to keep donald trump out of the white house? >> i suspected, if the fbi didn't work with big tech, and big media, to sentencer the hunter biden crime story, yes, i do suspect, that changes a lot of peoples votes. i suspect president trump would be in the white house today of big tech, big media, and the fbi, didn't work together to put the thumb on the scale, to get your pardon in there. >> not for counting, not election results? >> i haven't seen evidence of that. >> so, a team, in 2021, blake masters said that the 2020 election was stolen, but now that he's on stage, and running for senate, he has changed his

mind. i'm not shocked at the hypocrisy. i'm wondering, from a strategy standpoint, why would a republican back away from a lie that galvanize their voters, even if it is untrue? 30 days before the election? >> he's running against a well liked democratic incumbent, he's the underdog, and he's driving with independence. independents are, already, seeing him as a flip-flop when it comes to abortion. he's out on this website total ban, and everyone said, what are you talking about? it's a states rights issue. and i think it's right here. with the 2020 election, he knows, there is a group of independents who don't have any of the things that happened with trump and, especially in a state that had recounted, a number of times, and a certified one of biden in arizona, he wouldn't have any of that. i think he was trying to make his bid for independence, to try and catch up. >> in an october surprise it,

was herschel walker's 8 million new children, and we found out that the president of the united states so they're going to vacate some crime, some felonies, and all of those convicted on prior federal charges for marijuana, or convicted in the district of columbia, of simple marijuana possession. this is a huge deal. six 7000 people, directly affected by this. what, do you think, this means for the biden administration's overall attitude about drugs? do you think this is a sign of falling towards an overall legalization, or, at least, a realization that their criminal justice stance was outdated, and they needed to do something to galvanize young voters? >> i think there is a possibility of federal legalization on the horizon. this is, definitely, a step towards that. many have long felt, it doesn't make sense, i believe, 26 states now, where marijuana can be sold, legally. can be consumed, in public,

legally. yet, people are in prison over this? now, look, joe biden is doing what he can on this issue, so far. he says he is speaking to governors because, really, the problem is a state issue. we have something like 40,000 people in state prisons on this issue. again, from the left we are saying, good joe biden, but, we want more. 6500 people? solid. you have done what you can, but we wanted more. look, the only way that we ever get rid of the amber -- underground market for marijuana, is creating an above ground, legal market, making the underground, risky mark, it too risky. >> dry and a team, of sticking around to give us their picks for who won the week. that is next, don't miss it, right after the break. after the break. jaycee tried gain flings for the first time the other day... and forgot where she was. [buzz]

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paid, it's friday night, and it's time to play, who won the week? troy, and tina amara are here with me, and we begin with a team of. who won the week? >> supreme court justice, ketanji brown jackson. on her second day, on the court, it is the meryl team millican. in alabama, it's a case or determine what is left of the

voting rights act. she affirmed a 14th amendment, in which they are arguing, you can't consider race because it is unconstitutional? she says, it can be considered and a race conscious way, because that is what the framers intended to happen. to protect the right of emancipated black people, being terrorized in the south, right after the civil war during the reconstruction era. it was in the space, and is in the 14th amendment. >> she wins every single week she's on that court, battling against people who are not quite codified. trey, according to you, who won the week? >> great choice, i wish i had thought of that, but the show that is dominating culture, right now, is don or. evan peters, and ryan murphy, have come up with an extraordinary show.

it really gets into you. look, i felt depressed after watching it, and i thought it was just me, and i read an article about how the show is making a lot of people depressed. it is a deep look at what happened with jeffrey dom or. a lot of people are saying, that's hard to watch, a lot of black people are killed in, that yes, true, however, there are a lot of black heroes in this who stand up to jeff, stand up to the system that is ignoring them. niecy nash character, jesse jackson character. >> we have to go try. but i have to say this quick. if you don't want to be depressed, another thing you can watch, i think, is the uvalde school district a couple other police officers. trey, and a team of, thank you so much for joining us, that is tonight's read out. all in with chris, starting right now. right now. tonight, on all in. >> trump failed. we were calling for him to use the insurrection act all through the summer.