grave. and that is not good enough! it's never gonna be good enough! >> that's all for this edition of dateline. i'm craig melvin. thank you for watching! you for watching coming up on the mehdi hasan show, control of congress hangs in the bowels next month. and latino voters may play a decisive role, but how is it possible that the gop is making inroads with these voters? we'll break it down with an all-star panel. plus, herschel walker speaking out addressing allegations that he paid for a woman's abortion. but somehow the sheer hypocrisy of this keeps getting worse. and, maggie haberman's new role with donald trump include some bombshells. but why with the public have to wait for her to write the book in order to hear them? we'll debate that question. ♪ ♪ ♪

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ welcome to the show, i'm mehdi hasan. we hire less than five weeks away from the midterms. where democrats are not only looking to hang on to the majority, they're trying to hang on to control of the senate. and back in the spotlight is the quote, unquote, latino vote. which could be crucial for dams in especially in tight rates furch -- both states with large latino populations that went for biden in 2020. but for democrats, a worrying trend is playing out. >> she feels very upset with the current leadership of democrats because she feels that taxes are higher and the money is just not enough to get by. so she's voted democrat her whole life, she says. and now she's not happy with the economy. and that's why she thinking about -- >> since the 2020 election,

especially, we have been inundated with think pieces about the latino vote and how it shifting to the right. becoming more republican. becoming even more trumpy. and yes, kind of astonishingly, trump did grow his share of latino voters from 2016 to 2020. while biden fared worse with latino voters than hillary clinton did. in this year's midterms, we see similar numbers. and nbc telemundo poll says that while urging majority of latino voters likes democrats took control progress, the sheriff republican control has grown by ten percentage point in the last -- republicans like to brag about this even though let's be clear, there are still behind overall. and that is white governor gray abbott of texas state. -- why people made this bold declaration about his own prospects this year. >> [inaudible] 45% of hispanics. that's good. but let me tell you.

what's gonna happen this year, i will get more than half of the hispanic vote. >> i hate to break it to the governor, but even pulling from the texas hispanic -- shows abbott trailing far behind his democratic challenger better overlook when it comes to texas hispanic voters. by the way, hispanic voters, are spanish because our descendants of spanish speakers. latino voters, people hailing from latin america. but he's misguided in his general optimism on this issue, gop is making inroads on hispanic and latino voters. and experts in the country are searching for a reason why. now, even if you've heard this before, it's important to repeat. latinos are not a monolith. as my msnbc comic says, there is not a latino votes. there are latino voters. it's such an obvious statement when you say it out loud. considering geographical,

racial, age, gender, an income differences across the various communities. just take a look at some more findings from that telemundo poll. just a slight majority of latino voters approve of joe biden's job performance. and while latino voters in general do lean democratic. that does not tell the whole story. latina woman are more democratic than democrats latino men. as our catholic latinos, versus non catholics. urban latinos are more democratic, compared to those in the suburbs and rural areas. support also varies widely by state. latinos in california lean democratic by ten more points and those in texas. and a whopping 23 points then florida latinos. the american latinos are as diverse as the american population as a whole, should not come some grout revelation. but here's something that maybe a little surprising. take a look at this from the msnbc paul. although they identifies

republican, 40% consider them more then a -- and when you break that down by gender, latino men are more likely than women to identify with trump over the gop. yes, donald j trump, the same time who opened his 2016 campaign like this. >> when mexico sends its people, they are not sending their best. they're not sending you. there are not sending you. there sending people that have lots of problems and they're bringing those problems with this. they're bringing drugs, they're bringing crime, they're rapists. and some, i assume are good people. >> well, what is it that is drawing republican latino men specifically to trump? the answers of course are varied, but they may sound familiar. take jose aguilera, and houston man. a child of mexican immigrants that spoke to the new york

times last year. he said his family would often we'll come relatives for a time before they cross the border back to mexico. even benefited from affirmative action that approve them for another program, not the stuff of republican policy dreams. but for aguilar, trump was a model for prosperity. i'm an american, i can take advantage of whatever opportunities just as anglo people did. there's really no secret to success, it's really if you apply yourself then things will work out. it's not an uncommon belief. other trump supporting latino men tell the new york times that trump represents the best of capitalism. he's a boss, and they wanted to be him. they idolize him said one man. strategist told the times that trump's protection of strength, and masculinity is also a factor. with latino men noting that he is forceful, wealthy, and mostly unapologetic. in a world where at any moment someone will be attacked for saying the wrong thing. he says the wrong thing all the time. and does not bother with self flagellation. now, some attribute that to

some machismo factor in latino culture which some come a reductive and racist trope. they tell the washington post that -- it's also fair to say that if your man in a low status, group masculinity may become more important than claiming high status. and when you really do again, you find that latino male support for trump may have less to do with the latina part, as much as it has to do with the male part. trump made some small gains among black men as well in 2020. as well as drawing strong support among white men especially in the working class. similar reasons for their support for trump. he's project strength, they think he's a great businessmen. they say the economy was stronger under trump, and he's not afraid to tell it like it is. as a latino population growth in the u.s., experts say that latino men could become a very consequential voting bloc. but time is not on the democrat side. they need to be able to reach

out to this group in a way that resonates, and is authentic. they need to actually give a damn. before it becomes too late to stop what might become an exodus of a lot of latino male voters from their party. joining me now to discuss all of this and more, carlos curbelo, former republican congressman from florida. an msnbc political analyst, paul arrivals, by's news correspondent. an msnbc contributor. she spoke to latino voters in south texas for her latest episode, a few more report with paul aromas. streaming on peacock. also, charles broke, or -- presidential. runs co-hosted the latino vote podcast, and president of strategy -- . thank you all for joining me. an important conversation we need to have. carlo someone start with you, your republican in miami, florida. the state where the gop has made solid gains among latinos. what have you heard from latino men who support trump? >> mehdi, i think the issue is more cultural then policies.

a lot of people try to find what policies is it that republicans are advocating for? that latinos are attracted to? i don't think that is the right question. the question is how are republicans versus democrats talking about the united states and connecting unemotionally with these voters. i will give you an example. a lot of people on the left tend to focus, many times, on our countries flaws. which obviously we are a flood nation. and how this country can be unfair in the way that it treats people. whereas, republicans tend to talk to voters about how this is an exceptional nation. a land of opportunity, the land of the free. this very odd, kind of special vision of what america is. and, if you are an immigrants that came from central america. that came from venezuela. from cuba, from nicaragua. and you get to this country, and you hear these massive things about how flood the country's. it's hard to connect with that.

so, a lot of this has been cultural. it's abstract, it's hard to fully understand. but clearly, it's making a difference when it comes to the way that people vote. >> paula, there are guys across the country speaking to latino voters. what are trump supporting men telling you about their support for the former president, for the maga movement? how much is it about his projection of strength? how much is a kitchen table, quote unquote, economic issues? >> so, there's a couple of things right. i always think about the conversation that i had with -- , the former trainer women of the proud boys. i said you are black, latino man. what about trump makes you feel that you, this blackmon tina man belongs in that party? and the things that he kept repeating what's he's just like me. he's a hustler like me. so there's this element and introduction. this element of the entrepreneurial spirit that they see in donald trump. that makes them believe that in this country, regardless of their skin color, they can do whatever they want.

that's one thing. the other thing that we have to think about is this idea that there is a lot of latino men that have law enforcement jobs. if you go to the border, the majority of folks of border patrol agents are, many of them, coming from the tina families. and what you see on the polls is that, where republicans are making gains's pacific lee with border security messaging, and with crime. crime and safety. so this whole narrative that you hear of the fearmongering. this division of us between them. the migrants and us. that is what is really resonating with latinos. because it's something that they're fleeing from their own countries, their fleeing lawlessness. they're fully in places where the rule of law doesn't exist. they're fleeing crimes and criminals, and they come to this country and suddenly that reds message starts to resonate. and there's another thing that carlos touched on, which is this idea of assimilation. i think a lot of latino men, some, there's a segment of them, that see this proximity to whiteness as the ideal for what it means to be an american in

this country. they want to see that playing out, and manifesting in different ways. >> so chap, letting omen. specifically. could become a major swing block. how can democrats better reach out in a way that resonates? with presumably, could resonate with other men of color and white men that they have lost? >> as one of the only latino men in national projects, with out a degree that went to work. i am that man. i grew up a single father, tried to make ends meet. and seen them become a national political correspondent. -- with my mother my grandmother. how do i feel that baby? who's gonna watch that baby? who's gonna take care of that baby when i'm on the third shift? these are real things that you are not seeing right now. in tv commercials to your point about what we can be doing differently. i've been a democrat since i started my career working for an richardson texas. what's happened with the party is that we have gotten away

from them i'm narrative that really speaks to working class man, working class folks. narratives around jobs, narratives about what we're doing to you to stand up against the man who has all the money and all the power. what are we doing to help support for you? and for you taken care of your kids? today, my 26 year olds birthdays. they're wyatt and roll. in i am making them call me up way. loathe of way low because i want them to know that we are proud latinos. they are much prouder than i am. but it's our job to treat and teach our young men who is going to be there for them. how do you act as a man? and this stuff about machismo stuff is the biggest lie that i've ever heard. and the biggest, machismo manual ever meet. but guess what, i do whatever my grandmother told me to do. >> their point. carlos, paula, chuck. sit tight. a lot more to discuss on this issue. we have to take a quick break, and will be back with more! >> h more >> i think i changed my mind about these glasses. yeah, it happens. that's why visionworks gives you

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the right-wing shift around some latino people in the country. especially latino men. and what democrats can do to reach out to them when they have these crucial midterms. back in my pal, -- carlos, this week's msnbc -- shows a shift in the way that conservative latinos vote democratic leaning in 2012.

to part of the republican base today. i wonder how much of that do you think was the result of deliberate gop courting of those things. messaging directly to them. how much of it was good luck and a part of the polarization in america? >> well look. i do think that republicans have been more active in recent years. and hispanic communities. and they specifically focused on keeping permanent presidencies in these communities and not just dropping in during elections. to be fair, i think democrats came to a point. or got to a point where they started taking the committee for granted. i think that we all remember that saying. democrat fixes destiny. which for democrats that meant, okay, as the >> latino populations keeps growing. that means it will be inevitable. we are going to win. well, it doesn't really work that way. you have to earn the vote. you have to show up. and you have to meet people where they are. you cannot expect people to come to you. and i think progressives in

many ways have done that. they have gone to latino communities and only talked about immigration. well, it turns out a lot of latino families while they care about immigration, they also care about a number of other issues. so i think democrats have made a lot of mistakes over the years. they are correcting. that it does look like this cycle, democratic started showing up and taking it seriously. but it always hasn't been that way. >> carlos, that was a valid point all of it. but i just wanted to look at you at one point. he was a critic of donald trump, you're not surprised at all that this is happened during an era in which the president's openly racers towards brown skinned people? >> well, i'm not surprised by the reasons that followed and i showed earlier. there are things about donald trump that are attractive to certain people. and, that is surely playing out in the latino community. i also think the pandemic hurt democrats alike with hispanics, and gave let republicans an opportunity there. it's because hispanics did not want to be at home getting help from the government. these are people who came to this country to aspire, to

grow. and they needed to go to work and to earn tips. and earn wages. so there are a lot of factors. but some of them, indeed, our cultural as we discussed earlier. >> there are certainly a lot of factors. polley were recently in the rio grande valley ferreira fields report special. looking at people in south texas. you spoke to the gop -- who flipped the democratic seat in a special election this year. let's have a listen. >> in your special election campaign, do you think that you are also able to garner the support of democrats? >> i would not have one if i wouldn't have had support from democrats. >> when you spoke to voters there, and south texas, did you find many democratic voters who voted for flores. who said that they will vote for her again in november in the election bed? >> yeah. i think because there's a couple of things that played into. one was her message, it was very simple. god, family, and country. and mira floors bed on this

side idea that the majority of latinos that she seen around her are republican. so not only was the message strong. the messenger was. strong for once it wasn't an old white republican male telling a group of brown folks. someone who look like, them spoke like them, was born in -- , and the second thing is there is obviously this massive point. she is someone who is out reaching her democratic opponent. and republican spent over 1 million dollars just to critique it as opposed to over 130,000 of democrats in the opponent. and when you turn on the tv, and the radio. she has spanish an english language add. so there is the messaging that is resonating with a lot of formerly democrats. there is this massive boyd. and then there's this question for democrats. right? does a latina lawyer, that is against choice, that is against gay marriage. does someone like them, have a

room in the democratic party? and that is a legitimate question we have figured out. >> yes. and chuck, when you look at the top issues for latino voters. according to the polls. the cost of living, threats to democracy, jobs. similar issues to not latino voters. and then you have the cultural issues like guns with abortion. crime. do you get a sense that the democratic party appreciates the diversity of issues? and deal with carlos's point. that democrats have taken latino voters for granted. the whole demographic says destiny rhetoric from a few years ago? >> i think they make a valid point. i want to see people who are actually working in campaigns every day. these congressional races where the latino vote will literally determine who's gonna control congress? and what concerns me. is that the issues that you just laid out is exactly what we are seeing in the districts. jobs. economy. inflation. education. health care. and guess what? abortion has moved up. crime has moved up. but it's moved up, three, four,

five. but what ads you just get through talking about that are going back to your latino men problem? lots of ads around abortion. as they should be. it's a very mobilizing thing. but it's very mobilizing for women. it's very mobilizing for latinos. who are already over performing then by 20 points. crimes, guns. i'm very concerned that i'm seeing ads run. in brownsville texas. in this race for democrats that's leaning with guns in texas. i'm from texas. every mexican in brownsville has a gun. and abortion in this place where jobs in the economy is one. because it's one of the poorest places in the world. and i think that there is a reason behind. that and that's because in all of these districts, whether 60, 70, 80% let kenow populations. he had no latinos involved in making the decision of what the messaging is. you have a bunch of white folks that are well-intentioned, running all of these campaigns. and the consultants behind him don't understand how to show up with cultural competency in our community. >> and just on the cultural

issue. we also hear about how many latino americans are turned off. we also see, especially in the media, latinx. among young people who like to use the term. there's a gender divide there. while 14% of latina woman aged 18 to 21 use the term. just 1% of latino men in the same age group use it. that's a fascinating divide their. >> it is fascinating. and i have to say, my biggest rolls on. mine and every time i use that work is mostly older latino men that hate the word. yes, i'm not completely surprised. and to me, the only objective of the terms to be more inclusive. but i think that's a question. what is it about this term that involves such a diverse image? that is a box the image of someone on this panel. next to a latina, a transgender latino, and -- what about that images so retaining to people? and i think that's a question. and then you can uncover, is it

homophobia? is it transphobia? it's a lot of different things. but i think that that is something that is always, i don't have the best question for you mehdi, what about the word irritates meant so much? >> it is truly fascinating. i wish for more time to get into that angle. before we do run out of, time, carlos let's return to something you are talking about earlier. that i was talking about. you mention immigration. and i mentioned racism, and you said the racism gets canceled out by other opinions. but your party, you remember better than, me so and romney lost in 2012 yet this big postmodern which said that we've got to win latino voters. and we've got to do it by getting behind some kind of immigration reform. it's amazing that republicans still remain opposed, not just supposed to immigration reform. not even darker says they're dealing with the darker challenges. but republican voters. lake they like dark according to the polls. and even with that, the maga movement can't get by. and you're saying that it doesn't cost them! >> that's a great point mehdi, and if republicans were

understanding that improving the latino vote, which they have done. pressure. is a great goal and objective. an accomplishment for republicans. but if they really want to win the latino vote? going the trump plane just isn't going to work. they're kind of maxed out there. and, if they actually want to win the latino vote they do have to take this step. they do have to embrace broad unfair immigration reform. and they're actually gonna have to start delivering on policies that are important to a lot of latino families. culture matters, but at the end of the day if you actually want to when this committees vote, you're gonna have to make a difference for them in their lives. and republicans are still falling short. there >> good point. we're gonna have to leave it there on that point. carlos, paula, and chuck. thank you all. fascinating and important discussion. and you can see more of policy interviews with myre flores and texas voters with field report, streaming now on peacock. when we come back! we'll tell you about the

antiabortion extremists now running for the senate. who says he p hadn't paid for an abortion for the mother of one of his children, allegedly, it would be nothing to be ashamed of. no really. that's what the abortion is murder guys now saying. let's talk herschel walker on the other side of this break! don't go away! don't go away! that's why visionworks gives you 100 days to change your mind. it's simple. anything else i can help you with? like what? visionworks. see the difference. my asthma felt anything but normal. ♪ ♪ it was time for a nunormal with nucala. nucala is a once-monthly add-on treatment for severe eosinophilic asthma that can mean less oral steroids. not for sudden breathing problems. allergic reactions can occur. get help right away for swelling of face, mouth, tongue, or trouble breathing. infections that can cause shingles have occurred. don't stop steroids unless told by your doctor. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. may cause headache, injection site reactions, back pain, and fatigue. ask your asthma specialist about a nunormal with nucala.

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no matter what you're up against, we have your back. we are united way. we are neighbors helping neighbors in communities around the when disaster strikes we get you back on your feet. we help children build brighter. we've been here for over 135 s but now our work is more . join us. join your neighbors. join united way. if you are a republican who believes that all abortion is

murder, and should be treated as a crime. then you find out then one of your senate candidates is alleged to have paid for an abortion from a woman he was dating? what do you do? it seems you give him half 1 million dollars in the round of applause. i'm talking of course about georgia senate kemp they nominee herschel walker. his campaign is raised over $500,000 last week, since allegations were first race that he paid for an abortion par golf and in 2009. something he denies. and himself has been getting standing ovations. the baptist roach has been on the campaign instance. go figure. as for the national republican party? >> and we were caught lying about having three secret children? >> yes sir. >> so senator mcconnell, do you really think this guys ready to be a senator? >> it doesn't matter what i think, it matters what i say and i say, go herschel walker! >> anyways, i love you too much mechanic. >> and mitch come a conduct, i mean mcconnell, does love

herschel walker. he's taking on raphael warnock in georgia as republicans try to win back control of the senate. but that's, i let's be, honest mcconnell like a lot of republicans has no problem standing by herschel walker. even in the face of reporting from the daily beast. reports how surprising it is that he is still denying the allegation that he paid for a woman to have an abortion. why? because she claims that she also had a child with him. on thursday, walker double down on his denial. but he added that if he had paid for an abortion, you know, hypothetically. that would just be fine. take a look at what he told conservative video host, hewett. >> if that didn't happen, i would've said there was nothing to be ashamed of. people have done that, i know nothing about it. if i knew about it, i would've been on. it and talked about. it >> let me repeat some of that. if that had happened. what it said of the allegations that he did of the allegations.

there is nothing to be ashamed of there. nothing to be ashamed of if he does, it allegedly, hypothetically. other people have done. that's why not? him he says. yet as a republican senate nominee, he is an anti abortion extremists. supporting a ban on the procedure for everybody else with zero exceptions, not for rape, not for incest, not for when the life of the mothers in danger. as guardian columnist put, it toe herschel walker, abortion seems to be okay for me, evil for the. a, herschel walker, hypocrisy thy name. still to come, a constant theme of the trump years is that every few weeks, a book with big revelations comes out. and questions follow, why did we know this information before? we will debate this issue with political strategist, steve smith. and columnist michael cohen. that's after she break! after she break whenever heartburn strikes get fast relief with tums.

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we cover for almost four years ago. exclusive, the untold story of campaign 1984. and there, you can read the magazine fly on the wall reporting from the reagan versus -- presidential race including the scope that president reagan's advisers were planning a tax hike after the air election. that they hadn't even told reagan about. a looming tax hike does seem that something voters would've wanted to know about. so it's definitely worth a $2.50 new scent price for the magazine. but that issue of news week did not come back until after the election. part of the deal for the newsweek reporters to get their access was that they would keep what they learned under wraps until under the election. a lot of journalists at the time were perhaps, unsurprisingly, madden news week saying that it was an ethical breach to withhold such important information. but the tempest past. fast forward to today, where we have been getting books from d.c.'s top political reporters that believe startling new

details about the trump white house, and alleged crimes. about clearly unpresidential behavior, and more. in 2020 was bob woodward's book, revealing trump nude how serious covid was early in the pandemic. while he downplayed it to the american public. he would have the president on tape from early february. but chose not to disclose it until his book rage came out in september. it's gotten even worse since the 2020 election. one, book one bombshell revelation after another. about the former president and his various lies. scandals. and abuses of power. maggie haberman. the famed new york times, trump whisper, she sometimes called. for the past seven years is finally out with her new trump putt. it's called, confidence now. and it's out this week. and it to reveal something info that might have been useful to knows a long time ago. like how, donald trump may have stolen government documents. he may have stolen the government documents when he

left office in january of 2021. this is from the epilogue of confidence man. he demurred when i asked if he had taken any documents of nodes upon departing the white house. nothing of great urgency, no. he said. before mentioning the letters that kim jong-un had sent him, which he showed off to so many oval office visitors that advisers were concerned he was being careless with sensitive material. you are able to take those with? you i asked. he kept talking. seeming to have registered might surprise and said. no i think that's in the archives. but most of it is in the archives. but the kim john and letters. we have incredible things. it seems kind of important now. that conversation of hers with trump almost a year before the fbi search at mar-a-lago. this is just the latest trombone to raise the question, why do some journalist appeared to sit on huge revelations, especially trump related revelations until they're published in the book? instead of putting them out immediately? newspapers are dying, faith in the media is not an all-time

low. and the best position journalists are holding their cards until the lucrative book launch? that's how it looks and sounds to many. there's been a lot of scrutiny on haberman and it has an added dimension, hurried years of access to trump and sometimes of her reporting. sometimes sympathetic, sometimes devastating. that has -- from liberals and conservatives alike. according to gop strategist, steve smith, that had the lincoln product. it is a single totem of corruption. just like trump chasing money over justice. that's nonsense, said msnbc comments and former democratic speech writer, michael cohen. in this case he says none of this in, possession lee is groundbreaking. and they often get that info from sources by promising they would wait to publish it. they said if a reporter tells the story is one thing, and does another, who will trust them in the future? so, in an unprecedented age of division, distrust, and disinformation. how should these reporters navigate their obligations to

other sources? their bosses? and to you? the american public. joining me now, steve schmidt, former adviser to the george w. bush and john mccain presidential campaigns. also cofounder of the lincoln project, and the warning news on substack. and michael cohen, msnbc columnist. former state department speech water during the obama years. and author of this truth and consequences newsletter on substack. thank you for joining me. steve, lay out your case for what you think reporters are doing wrong with their books and why? and if they were really holding back from the publications that they were. wouldn't we be hearing them from their top editors? >> i think that when this argument devolves into whether reporters writing a book is a good thing or not, it's evidence that we are in fact living in a mediocrity. here is what the issue is. the reporter, what is their responsibility when we are talking about the top political reporters in a society and what

i would argue is to hold government accountable and in essence what they are self declaring, the power to do, is to take information and to harvest that. like nuggets. and ultimately, two commodities it. commoditizes the information and put a value on it. some of that information is available for released tomorrow. for the public. some of it is withheld for the book later. who gets to decide that? now, the new york times is specifically in this case, calls itself the paper of record. now, the new york times as an institution, the judge begins the clash of trust,, faithfully if in the news and in the media companies. and the fact that it is a billion dollar company. that haberman is a celebrity, million dollar year journalist reporter. are these people immunized from

any public criticism? i see an inherent conflict of interest. i also see a conflict when you have a reporter who is referred to by the president that she is covering as his psychiatry. and what she did on a daily basis, what up in the everyday, is to bestow anonymous source saying. of people that she knows to be not credible in the white house. everybody knew the president read the new york times about him. and what the white house officials dead was jockey for favor with haberman in abroad training of misinformation and tidbits that are, as i just said. later commoditized. and i think that all the ads to a collapse of trust and faith and believe. in media. which fuels the political instability in the country. >> okay. pace made. michael, let's hear you respond to some of that.

>> i just, i don't know what to say about. that have of things, the bad things that we know about donald trump. we know that maggie haberman in the new york times, in the washington post. another media sources. it's a crazy notion to say that she is holding material in check rebook. when, so many stories over the past 70 years without trump. we're broken by haberman. and other times reporters. the thing is about this, that i find bizarre is they tweeted something about her keeping quiet. the fact that trump said he didn't want to leave office. but when richie no? that we don't know when she knew that. if she knew that in november 2020, i'm sure she would've reported that because it's a major news story. but she sounding it out, after january 20th, 2021. it's not as big news story. because we saw take place. so most of what has come out from her book, that i've seen so far, is, i don't want to say it's gossip. i don't want to reduce what she's written. i haven't read yet. but it's a lot of what we already know. there's a story about trump

misidentify democratic congressional aides who were african american, or hispanic. as being. waiters oh, donald trump is a rave cyst? i may not me over with a federal. we know this about donald trump. >> let me jump in and ask you a quick question. because i take your point. and there have been argument about when did they find out this information? when would've mattered? let me give you a hypothetical together you stand on principle. if roger of the daily beast, who is reporting that herschel walker paid for an abortion, something walker denies. huge story this week. if he held that back until after the senate election. for a biography of herschel walker. would you be okay with that? >> well no. but why would you do? that he wants that scoop. every reporter wants a scoop. and that scoop, frankly, he's gotten amazing scoops. herschel walker. it's going to probably leave to a book deal down the road for him. it's not really the incentive here to keep the stuff quiet. i mean, they're not gonna sell books two years after the fact because, she, you know. revealed that donald trump said

november 2020 that you're gonna leave the white house. we knew that already. they're banning the book because she has special insight into trump that no one else has. and that is what is making this unaffected reporter. >> steve, you are better critical about the new york times a minute ago. i just had a new york times correspondent peter baker on the show. he and his wife. they wrote their own big trump. look that has lots of things. they continued to trade puerto rico for greenland. white house staff with mental health. i asked peter baker about the criticisms about them holding back there. books have a listen at what they said. >> well, first of all, we see that all the reporters in this book was leaving office. we didn't hold anything back while he left office. people need to know before the election. by the way he did lose the election. so before the election it wouldn't of changed the election, that you're hoping he's gonna. loose he did. loose and there's something truly urgent that he has to do. we do put that in the newspaper, and all that back. >> steve, is he wrong? >> well, i think that each

cases situational. that you can't apply generalize standard to different cases. and the case of haberman, i think that you're talking about the lead white house correspondent for the new york times. and who gets to decide what information is commoditized for later? so we began the segment by looking at maggie haberman standing from a photo op. signed. spillover fighting. if that's a word. the launch of the book. the motive for it is obviously, if you package work. so some of this old news, for example, where she is a contributor. cnn. it's billed as breaking news on cnn. even though the news is years old. and what i'm saying is, it's not on the level. the collapse of trust and faith and belief in the media in america is a very real thing.

and the fact that people don't believe. >> steve, steve when you talk about trust. steve, i'm just gonna jump in and ask you steve. when you talk about trust, you worked on multiple campaigns. did you never do deals with reporters on the side saying, i'll give you this. but you can't reporter yet? really? >> absolutely. a negotiated all the times. in every conceivable status with reporters off-the-record. background, the background. so on and so forth. all of the reporters that were writing books about campaigns or the campbell magazine journalist that we're doing it. most of them had an understanding, hey very specifically, i'm writing for a book later. i'm not reporting news day-to-day. there is no confusion about what their role wise. my point is. this information is valuable, it's valuable because there is a commercial product at the end that's marketing as such. >> okay, we're out of time steve. i want to give michael one last word on this.

michael 30 seconds. it's all yours. 30 seconds. >> i wrote a book called game-changers with lots of revelations. they also cover the race on a day-to-day basis. i just think, what minimizes trust in journalists as when these kinds of attacks. that occur deeply unfair, and deeply misunderstanding how journalism works. there is no evidence that maggie kept secrets to celebrate. that's an allegation. [inaudible] [inaudible] >> this is a great conversation, i wish we had more time. but we are out of time. it's very's frustrating. stephen schmidt, michael cohen, thank you for coming on and having that discussion. appreciate you both! when we return, president biden's hot mic moment from florida is now going viral. and while whitewashing media touts the salty language. a lot of democrats are begging for that attitude. and make it louder for people in the back! i'll explain after a very short break! eosinophils, which nucala helps reduce. nucala is a once-monthly add-on injection for severe eosinophilic asthma.

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president biden toured the hurricane damage at fort myers beach in florida. and met with florida officials. the mayors of the city gave the president award welcome, perhaps maybe a bit too warm? the two men connected and it led to this now viral, hot mic moment. >> -- you can argue with your brothers outside the house. >> they wear the usual,

right-wing reactions to moment. so for shock at the supplies. it's one thing to swearengin unguarded mike in a hot conversation between two people. but just a reminder, that toronto trump drops f bombs that features. just before rallies like this one in alaska. >> i had him on the left. i had him in the right. it hit him in the -- center. >> but forget the salty language. what's actually know where the from biden's hot mic moment. is the fighting spirit that he expressed in that single, private, unguarded moment. no one messes with me is what he was saying. and that's the kind of message he should've been sending to joe manchin and kyrsten sinema all these months. and he needs to center republicans in the coming weeks especially if he wants to help democrats hold on to congress in november. there needs to be a lot more of that kind of attitude from the president whether or not he manages to clean up his language. that does it for the mehdi

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it's the subway series menu! 12 irresistible subs... like #9 the champ. rotisserie style chicken. double monterey cheddar. the champ is truly made for a champ. gee, thanks chuck. who said anything about you? it's subway's biggest refresh yet. this is the katie phang show. live from miami, florida. we've got lots of news to cover. and lots of questions to answer. so let's get started! a new twist in the herschel walker abortion scandal. his ex, now telling the new york times the georgia senate candidates wanted to have a second abortion. but she refused. and so far? the gop is still standing by their man. plus, new developments in the mar-a-lago investigation. stores say that the doj suspects that donald trump still has white house documents in his possession. and? the far-right's