son our air kevin: and helps prevent the wildfires that create toxic smoke that's why calfire firefighters, the american lung association, and the coalition for clean air support prop 30. i'm a human being. naomi: i'm voting yes on 30. i'm sorry more than i can express. every day and runs through me. >> what happened? >> well. >> it felt like there was something going on. the multiple red flags. >> keep an eye on him. he's got a firearm on him. >> he is armed with more than one handgun. >> an ar-15 with him. a shotgun. >> to see a cold blood is not really what captured there and that driveway. >> josh and amber were there. i was like oh my god no. >> sounds like it was premeditated. >> they had no idea it was

coming their way. >> there were experiences in the door. they blocked the door. >> it sounds like a commando operation. >> straight out of the military. >> it still feels like -- . >> i blame myself for everything. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> the story about young couples and their children, their tangled relationships is so disturbing you might question what kind of creatures where you humans are. you've been forewarned. >> we have a lot of strange cases in the course of day one. but this one has a chilliness to it that is just unmatched. >> it's something you don't usually hear about. >> the trip into the darkness actually begins on a sunny fall day. october 27th, 2018. and the sleepy town of sodus, and way upstate new york. tiffany fare was headed out to

the grocery when her two years old got fussy about what they were eating. >> we went to the kitchen to grab gummy bears. some neighbor talking with a gentleman outside. didn't think any of it thing of it. >> her neighbor josh, leaving against his truck seemed in deep conversation with someone she did not recognize. josh's girlfriend, amber, pulled into the driveway. tiffany reach for the gummy bears. and that's what he heard it. a gunshot. >> i turned back out my kitchen wendell and i say josh grabbed his chest. and amber at that point had the g.a.r. in reverse. and right as she was going past the shooter, he turned and shot a right in the head. >> tiffany threw herself on top of her child, carl to her front door and bolted the lock. more shots followed. pop pop pop. too many to count. >> shots just kept ringing out. it was crazy. she called 9-1-1.

>> as it turned out, the county surgeon sheriff matt car was supervising just a few hours away. he was dispatched to the scene. >> immediately, i had people coming at me. >> and these are neighbors. these are not? >> at that time, i'm hoping their neighbors. i'm not really sure who people are. >> it took the sergeant a moments to get his bearings. but for him, those images would be seared in forever. there was the homeowner, the victim, josh. half under the truck where he tried to take cover. he had been shot multiple times. amber, his girlfriend, was dead, draped over the center console of her car. which had come to rest in the driveway across the street. >> this is a gruesome thing you've come upon? >> absolutely. >> you have two dead and a pretty quiet neighborhood. >> absolutely. one of the worst things i've ever seen. >> as the sergeant approached emirates car, he found something as unexpected as it was cruel. poised in a car seat, right behind the murder mom was a child. very much alive. josh and embers four year old

son. >> i can honestly say i still see the child in the backseat, rubbing his four-piece chicken mcnuggets. i can see it vividly. >> academy in the streets don't really prepare you for that kind of a? mitch >> know it does. not >> to sergeant did the best to comfort the boy as he waited for his fellow officers to respond. the neighbors, witnesses now, we're telling the officers that they had seen the shooter. black sweatshirt, green hat. stripping away through backyards. >> police officer, anyone in there. come out now. open up. >> a manhunt was underway for an apparently, stone cold killer. >> -- >> robert was aside as the lead detective on the case. >> we had no idea, immediately, where that person had gone. we had a general direction. when the calls first coming out and i parts of the operation was to shut down the school, which was nearby. so the central school district was immediately put into lockdown.

>> so you're hoping this is all there is. you don't want it but who knows? >> right. >> do you look down the neighborhood? is that possible? >> we had made some phone calls to the neighborhood, to reverse 9-1-1. or and they -- revel aren't. and neighborhood calls are made to the prize people, to shelter in their homes. >> here comes the canine. anybody inside should be coming out. you will get a bit. >> canines who are brought in for the street to street search. police set up ahead of qatar. >> we were checking houses, barnes, sheds. houses that people alerted us to. they wanted them checked. >> you didn't see anyone run through here at all? >> in the command center, early on. what was the theory that they had here? >> we thought we had still somebody contained inside the perimeter as it was expanded. >> you thought the shooter was on the ground there? >> yes. maybe hold up in a building or a car. or outbuilding. something like that. >> anybody running through here? >> meanwhile, news of the

shooting was already out there on social media. josh's sister, nicole, first learned about it on facebook. her spirits slumped when she saw the name of the street where it happened. >> i called 9-1-1 and said, that's near my brother's house! and the operators said, well what your brother's name? she said the josh. but she said that i have no information frio, but a couple get a hold of. you >> know good? >> now my head sank. >> the police did call, but they reach josh's parents first. his mom, bob narwhals. >> she goes, there's been a shooting and it involves your son. i think she said he passed away or something. and i just broke down. i kept saying no, not my josh. can't be my josh! what about amber? and she said, she is gone too. and i was like, oh my god no! and i lost it. >> she then had to tell her or other children. josh's two brothers, and his

younger sister amanda. >> my mom was calling me. and instantly i knew something was not right. just from her cry. it was almost like a scream. and i kept yelling at her, mom, what? what? and she was like josh, it was josh. and she was like, amber too. josh an amber. they are dead. so, i wanted to do something. i tried to leave, iran out of the house. i want to go save them. but i can't. >> as josh and embers families wrestled with grief, the town of sodus punk are down. somewhere out there was a killer, still on the loose. but where? coming up! >> did you guys see anything at all? >> the search was urgent. the fear, instant. why did this killer target josh and amber? >> i had no clue whatsoever. >> it didn't appear to be a home invasion gone on or anything like that? >> no. no. but it sounded like it was

premeditated. >> and later. >> what happened? >> the midnight right in the middle of nowhere. that will break the case wide open. >> what the hell are you doing here? >> there's something going on. and it just did not fit right. >> when dateline continues! n dateline continues skin, try downy free & gentle. downy will soften your clothes without dyes or perfumes. the towel washed with downy is softer, and gentler on your skin. try downy free & gentle. the abcs of ckd a is for awareness, because knowing that your chronic kidney disease in type 2 diabetes could progress to dialysis is important. b is for belief that there may be more you can do. just remember that k is for kidneys and kerendia. for adults living with ckd in type 2 diabetes, kerendia is proven to reduce the risk of kidney failure, which can lead to dialysis. kerendia is a once-daily tablet that treats ckd differently than type 2 diabetes medications to help slow the progression of kidney damage and reduce the risk of cardiovascular events, such as heart attacks.

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that's when you know, it's half-washed. downy has 7 benefits that condition and smooth fibers so clothes look newer, longer. feel the difference with downy. so it is, new york wasn't locked down. a stone cold killing had settled on the town. and left a young couple dead. josh, and his longtime girlfriend amber. gunned down in the driveway. amber sister, angel lynn, got the voice mail from their dad. >> he said, call me. i have some really hard news. and the urgency, and the pain in his voice. was just, it was just the most difficult thing to hear. i know at that point what had happened. and i'm still thinking, i'm, like you know. maybe she still alive. maybe they are still alive.

and, my brains going. but there was two people dead. you know. >> amber's parents, christened marcia, had not only lost their daughter. but we're now worried about. just bruner. their grandson who had witnessed the shooting. >> obviously the first thing is where is my grandson? where was he? because he knew the time. around 2:00 we knew that was when she would be getting home with him from school. you know, they told us that he was in the backseat of the car. but he was okay. >> okay physically but presumably in shock. and otherwise unable to shed light on the crime. four year old josh junior had been diagnosed with autism in his nonverbal. >> he's right in the backseat in his kid seat right? >> yes. he's done everything we know he did. >> there's a gun coming through the window. >> see anything at all? >> as the manhunt continued in sodas, they puzzled over the killings. they could not figure out who would want to harm josh and the innocent amber. >> i had no clue whatsoever. you know thoughts.

no suspicions. i was completely clueless. >> it didn't appear to be a home invasion gone wrong or anything like that? >> now. no. but it sounded like it was premeditated. from the little bits and pieces that we could gather for the first couple of days. >> 24 year old amber, with her love of gardening, and professional bakery job. seemed an unlikely target. >> she was as such a sweet old soul. she was kind, she was easy to get along with. everyone liked her. >> josh's parents, jane and barb. thought the same thing about their son. josh had no enemies that they knew of. his family says that he was just a hardworking guy with a player for cooking. he picked up a few things at his dad's restaurant growing up. >> we brought him under our wing and he became a right-hand man. >> and he was around the kitchen by the end of things? >> he was great. >> in fact, josh had been putting a nice life together for himself. and her business was taking off. and just that week, he told his mom that he and amber were

thinking about making it official. >> he says yeah, we're thinking about finally getting their. and i'm like joshua? >> they were doing pretty well there. >> wonderful. brought a new house. getting their lives started. he had a long care business that he was starting up. >> they were on their own. >> everything is going? up >> everything is going up. >> josh and amber were especially devoted parents to. his mom remembers with affection, the lighthearted way that he had told her that josh junior was on the way. >> i got up to make my coffee. like i always do. and there's an envelope right in front of my coffee. and it says mom, dad. so i take it down, and i open it up and there is an ultrasound picture and a baby bib and some, boys are from heaven. or something. and i went, what? >> major grandson? >> yeah. yeah. so i texted him, do you have

something to tell me? >> maybe it came with some difficulties. would've been a challenge for some parents. >> he was probably a year and a half, two years old before we realized. >> he was on the spectrum. >> artistic? >> yeah. >> how did they deal with? it >> made the doubt very well. >> i didn't know how my brother would react to having a special needs. it didn't faze him. he is a normal kid to him. an amber was wonderful with him. carefree with him. he could have a fifth, and she would just giggle and go about her business like it didn't upset her or anything. >> but josh junior wasn't the only child in their lives. josh and amber were also loving parents to two children from josh's previous relationship. because of the agreement had given josh an amber the summer months to care for them. >> did it matter to your sister that the new boyfriend, josh, came with kids already? that he had a long term relationship? >> no. amber always loved kids. she did fantastic with mike

heads. and she wore it well. >> josh's ex girlfriend, and mother to the children. is a woman named charlene childers. she gave amber the stamp of approval for being such a loving second mom. >> were you okay with her being around your children? >> yeah. i was actually pretty, i was fined with amber being around my kids because she took them in as, they were her own. and, she loved my children. >> charlene lived in texas, some 1600 miles away. >> how do you find out? >> i got home from work on monday the 22nd of october. and i start looking at facebook, and i saw the news articles of shootings in sodus. she wanted news of her children. >> in that moment, they were in new york with josh and amber. luckily, they were in school. out of harm's way. she called josh's mom. >> charles leans on the phone? >> yeah. she called me. she said she heard. and, i just told her. somebody killed josh! ♪ ♪ ♪ >> charlene hit the road from

texas, as the detective was trying to get a handle on the crime scene. he was shocked by the sheer awfulness of it. with a wounded, but still alive charge have to witness his girlfriend's execution. >> so even though josh's shot. he is aware that his girlfriend is in peril here? >> yes. >> probably seize her get shot? >> yes he does. i had witness accounts tell us he was yelling for her. >> and then multiple shots as he tries to crowd recover under vehicle and doesn't make? it >> correct. >> this is a horrible crime? >> yes. it was perhaps the one of the worst i've ever seen. >> when you say cold blood, it doesn't really capture what happened in their driveway? >> now. >> from everything the detective was saying, it was a very personal crime. >> there was several casings on the ground that told us that whoever wanted him dead was to make sure there was no chance that he was going to win. >> josh had been shot ten times. a message killing, but one delivered by home?

coming up. >> we were afraid for our families. we don't know the reason. we don't know who did this. >> a mysterious figure. >> there's a couple of different videos of a person, matching the description of what the witnesses had seen. walking down the sidewalk towards josh and amber's home. >> a mask on the ground. >> did you worry then, we've got a hoodie wearing gunman in the neighborhood killing people? >> i was scared to just be home. just me in the kids. it was scary. >> when dateline continues! when dateline continues

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night. and they missed their gunmen. that is canines never ran out of essential short ways from the scene. >> we tracked into a parking lot. >> that makes sense right? this is probably where the shooter judge the car? >> ice himself. yes. >> schools -- residents were told it was safe to go outside again. nonetheless, caution embers loved ones remained paralyzed with fear. >> we were afraid for our families. because we don't know the reason. we don't know who did this. we are just constantly being vigilant. looking around. >> the tentacles of this go out in some way that we have no idea? >> right. who knows. >> a slower paced, more tedious shoe investigation became the order of the day. >> knocked on every door. knocked on every neighbor's door. we. >> did you get in the nuggets? anything? >> a little bit.

with certain, home surveillance systems. that other people out have their. we are able to get people of interest on video. >> so a person appears before the time of the shooting i believe right? >> that's correct. there's a couple different videos of a person, matching the description of what the witnesses had seen, walking down the sidewalk. towards josh and embers home. >> here's one of them. a person in a black hoodie walks through the frame at 1:57 pm. about ten minutes before the murder. you can't see the face. at 1:58 pm, the figure appears on camera again. >> so the victims are being surveilled? >> we have come to find out that that is exactly what happened. >> and another critical piece of evidence had been bagged and said to the lab for analysis. >> we have a black mask. approximately 30 yards east of north street and elmwood. >> as scary mask, lost her dropped by the shooter apparently. as he ran from the scene. one of the canine sniffed it

out. >> did it look to you freshly tossed or dropped? >> had been trump done in the mud? >> it was a ski mask. so that's not something people just drop, or discard. so i mean, it was $34. >> pretty pricey pair. >> yes, it's not something that -- if i dropped it i would've been -- . >> would it come up with dna? meanwhile, investigators reveal the statement the neighbor had given them about what she had seen at the kitchen window. she said that based on body language, charge seem to know his killer. >> the gentleman was standing at a picnic table. and josh, for some reason, had pulled his truck up next to the picnic table. and he was leading up against the tail end of his truck. just nonchalantly, sitting there talking. >> detectives needed to do a little bit more digging into the life of josh niles. they conducted an interview with his family. >> we were at nichols, the police came to see as personally there. >> did you have anything for

them? >> i had no idea at first. i couldn't even imagine who would want to do this to him. >> josh's sister amanda thought, it must be a burglary. >> maybe someone did try to rob him or, wrong time. >> did you worry then, we have gotta herding wearing gunman in the neighborhood killing everyone? >> yes. i was terrified to be home. with me in the kids. watch out the window. a little scary. >> is that wondered if it was a case of mistaken identity. >> we thought maybe, he is a new homeowner. maybe someone thought, this guy that was bad. that lived there before. josh. let's go do something. >> nothing -- >> no. not at all. >> i couldn't think of anyone who wanted to kill my son. and his beautiful girlfriend. it just didn't even seem real. >> detectives also wanted to speak to josh's acts, charlene childers. they first reach the mother of two of the children as she had

been driving in from texas into the city. >> this is what you hear on the. for >> what do you think? >> i think i've got a quiet little southern belle is while she put herself on the phone. >> to mirror? >> very dim air. very cooperative. >> but she had an unladylike venting to do for josh. >> she had given us a little bit of information that she had had a problem with josh in the past. that there were several police reports. >> charlene told us some of what she shared with the police. she said that despite charges sunny demeanor, and covert here could be a terror. he masked his anger issues with drugs. >> he was fine as long as he had as part, as long as he had as mayor wanted to smoke. other than that? >> he was tranquil. >> yeah. if he didn't, thanks carb ad. if things didn't go's way, the things he wanted them to. things got bad. and when i said bad, i mean for me. >> she claims that judge that violence on more than one occasion. >> he threw a bar stool past arm nine month old daughter's

head. >> this is like thrown a switch? all of a sudden he's a different guy? >> yeah. and you don't know what's gonna trigger him. and, it just, it went on. that entire day. he beat the crap out of me. and, the cops came. >> and you stayed? >> yes. >> is there a point where you're saying this isn't working out? i like you, but it's not working out for the two of us. we're not meant to be together. >> there was. and i had left. and then, for some reason, i fell back into it. and, we ended up having another child. and then, about a year after that is when i just said i can't do it. >> according to police, charlene called the cops on josh several times. in one incident, he was arrested and pleaded guilty to unlawful imprisonment after charlene said that she tried to joke her. she said she was fired by the relationship, she went so far as the warren amber, his current girlfriend. >> unfortunately, i had to warn her and i was like.

>> did you take her side and say look after this guy? >> yeah. i said be careful. >> about what? >> be very careful. he does have a temper, and i want you to get hurt like i did. >> anger, drugs, and a warning from the x. if what darlene was saying was true. it casts josh and his relationship with women in a whole new light. coming up! >> what role does he play in this? >> he plays a pivotal role. >> a possible suspect, and get this. he is loud and proud. >> he saw himself as celebrity status. he was quite taken with the fact that he was, what he called, a suspect. we were just trying to put pieces of a case together. he calls himself a suspect. >> i'm guessing this guy is talking himself into a champ. >> he's talking himself into getting questioned, pressure. >> and that did happen? >> oh yes. >> when dateline continues! teline continues sive, so you have round-the-clock protection on all your stuff. like that cardboard tv. i told props to switch that out. okay, everyone, that's a wrap.

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wounded on saturday. police take a suspect into custody after finding the words with the self inflicted gunshot wound. officials believe the suspect knew the victims. and explosions partially destroyed the 12 mile bridge linking the korean peninsula with the russian mainland on saturday. three people were killed in the blast. ukrainian officials have posted about their explosion, but nobody has claimed responsibility. now back to the line! as claimed responsibility two days after the murders. mourners gathered outside josh an amber's home for a vigil. amber's sister, angela, still on high alert. >> i remember just having a sense of, is somebody watching me? >> did you ask law enforcement. do you have reason to be nervous here? >> yeah. and they told us we didn't. but still, it doesn't always settle your mind. >> her parents, chris and marcia, where struggling with how close they had come to

losing their grandson to. josh junior, who had been right behind ember in the car. >> there might have been fake three victims that day? >> there could've been. right. think other wasn't. >> shoulder to shoulder with a distraught family and friends, was charlie. josh's acts, demanding justice as the news cameras rolled. >> whoever did it. has now made it to where my kids were all affected. and that's nothing that a kid should ever have to do. that's not something you ever want to find out. the most i have to say the aisle is that justice needs to be served. my kids need that closure. >> josh's family haven't seen much of charlene since the breakup. and truth be told, they hadn't missed her much. his sister amanda. >> what did you think of her amanda? >> at first i like her. she was nice, and, always smiley. seemed to make him happy. but as the years went on, you could see he was a very unhealthy relationship. >> when you say that, what are you talking about? >> they would always fight and back.

are not getting along. >> the truth was told that sometimes she would call the cops on him? >> all the time. and she would call me and say charlene call the cops on me again. >> josh's sister said that charlene, not the brother, was the hothead in the relationship. an instigator with 9-1-1 unless we dial. >> did anyone -- >> we've always pulled him aside and said, this is in a relationship. this is not how our relationship is supposed to be. you need to break it off. >> those tools were like fire and water. they just couldn't be together. >> who got in his face? >> they were both good at it. but she like to pick up him. it was almost like she wasn't happy unless he was mad. >> doesn't sound like any way to get out a bed and go to work? >> no. >> everyone agreed that josh and charlene where better apart. and in recent years, with more than 1000 miles between them. he agreed on co-parenting apology into work. >> i have them during the school year, and he got it --

and every other christmas. >> still, the history of tension between them put charlene in the investigators crosshairs. >> while, we were very interested in charlene. and i had asked her to calm in when she got settled. to come in, and help us figure it out who had done this to her ex. the father of her children. >> and very quickly, they were able to conclude one thing for sure. >> detective, were you able to rule out right away that she was not anywhere near the driveway that day? >> i believe, because of phone conversations that i had had with her. she was in fact, in texas on the day of the murders. >> so charlene wasn't the shooter. wasn't in new york on the day of the murder. but it turns out, she did have close ties to sodus new york. close ties there to a local guy. >> she also mentioned that on one of the phone calls, that she wanted her current boyfriend to come pick up the children. >> his name was casey. he lived in the town near sodus. josh and embers family members even remember him consoling her

after the murders. all this though, unofficial murder. >> he was there the whole time we were doing vigils for my brother. and having getting togethers at our house. >> so here is a theory. if charlene did in fact have this explosive relationship with josh. maybe her current boyfriend, this casey, had even the score by killing josh as a demented lovers gift. >> what role does he play in this? >> he plays a pity her vital role. >> police say that casey was a person of interest. he also had a scrape with the law. he and charlene dated when she was just 14 and he 19. >> they had known each other in the past. casey had actually been arrested in the past for having a relationship with charlene when she was under age. >> casey was on the list. someone detectives wanted to speak to and right away. >> we reached out to him, and brought him in for an interview. which he complied, 100%. and told us that he was just

the boyfriend of charlie. and he didn't know anything about the shooting. >> but this was weird. after he left the sheriff's department. why was he bragging to his buddies about being investigated in a double homicide? >> we found out through some other people that he saw himself as celebrity status. >> he was quite taken with the fact that he was what he called a suspect. we were just trying to put pieces of the case together. he called himself a suspect, and reach out to people who he hadn't talked to in years. to tell them that he was being a suspect. >> also unsettling. detective learned that casey was trying to off-load again. >> i'm guessing this guy is talking himself into a jam? >> he's talking himself into getting questioned again. that's for sure. >> and that happened? >> oh yes it did. >> coming up! >> police uncover new information about casey miller. >> he was actually trying to get rid of a gun. >> and they have a new question

for charlie. how many men's too many men? >> well, there's casey miller. and then we find out, there is a husband, tim dean. >> and who is tim dean? >> tim dean is a former chief of police of sun ray texas. >> tim is your husband? casey's or boyfriend? you've got a complicated life. >> i know i do. >> when dateline continues! [music playing] when we first arrived at st. jude it was just claire and i. she was still recovering from her brain surgery and side effects of that surgery meant that she had to relearn how to walk and how to speak. you can join the battle to save lives, during childhood cancer awareness month, by supporting st. jude children's research

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down in their driveway, and laid to rest. now detectives working the murders were talking to a local guy who lived not far from the scene. casey, charlene's boyfriend. detectives learned something sketchy about him. >> he was actually trying to get rid of a gun. >> the gun in question was a glock, nine millimeter, semiautomatic pistol. thank and color. and cops knew it was the same caliber gun that killed josh and amber. and when detectives called casey back for more details about the handgun. he explained the weapons that story. his girlfriend, shortly, and who had been so quick to act mouth josh. he owned the pink lock. >> and charlene worked aate sec? is that right? >> correct. she brought a handgun to new york. >> but casey said it was all totally incident. she had a permit to kill the permit in texas, but not in new york state. and i hate to get up to sodas after the murders, she said she

forgot to leave the gun at home. >> casey reached out to some of the people that he knew. and tried to get those who had permits to take care of that weapon for her. >> did the story of the peak gun sound a little fishy? maybe. but a ballistics test ruled out that block as the one who killed the couple. and casey had an alibi that checked out. he was at work when the shooting happened. >> he had a right to work on time. he was at work on the day of the shooting. >> but detectives weren't quite done with poking around in the life of josh's ex girlfriend, charlene. and they found out something quite curious. case we was her local boyfriend, but not the only man in her life. there was tim. down in texas. >> well, there is casey miller. but then we find out there is the husband. tim dean. >> who's tim dean? >> tim dean is the former chief of police of summer, in texas. >> tim is your husband? >> yes. >> casey's or boyfriend? >> yes. >> you don't need me to tell you of a complicated life charlene? >> no. i know it. >> a complicated life that was

of keen in stressed to investigators. it went like this. long after charlene broke up with josh, she met husband, tim. this was when they both worked for the texas police department. charlene was the animal control officer there. and tim, a sergeant. charlene says she foul for terms are shots demeanor. >> he was a cowboy. he wore the cowboy hat. he had the cowboy boots. he had the old-school manners. >> why did that work for you? why at that point in your life? >> because. that's how i was raised. he reminded me of my dad. he played the guitar, just like my dad did. >> but not long after they got married. it all took a turn for the worst. tim dean had a three year old daughter from a previous marriage. he got in serious trouble after he was videoed slapping the child across the face. >> so what was the incident?

>> he was accused of abusing his three year old daughter. >> his own daughter? >> his own daughter. >> and charlene is recorded-ing it on the phone or something? >> charlene recorded the incident on the phone. and that ends of getting out to show of her friends. and. that is forwarded to the authorities. and they conduct an investigation in texas. >> as a result, police chief been lost custody of the young girl. and because he was living in the same house was darlene's two kids, with josh. child protective services in texas alerted josh. turns out, he was already on his way to texas to pick up his kids for the summer. >> they got a call from cvs. >> child protective services? >> the agency in texas. >> you have to go get your kids. they said, i'm on the way to get the kids. what's going on? they said i'll tell you when you get here. >> what was the -- >> i think he was scared for his children because he did not know what was going on. >> so josh took to get to the summer as planned. and decides to file for for

custody. before the summer was over, a judge in new york ruled in his favor. that the kid should stay with him. and not go back to charlene and him in texas. this was just a few months before the murders. charlene had lost her kids, and it hit her hard. >> this is a huge setback for you though charlie? you've lost the kids. >> yes it is. it angers me. and frustrates me. and. >> is it angered of directed at the state? is it aimed at josh? is it aimed at him? who in a way got you into all of this? >> honestly. it seems that everybody. >> but she had a plan, convince the family courts that she was done with her husband, tim dean, divorce him. and he would no longer be an issue. problem solved. >> in august, we had our last custody hearing. we were, i told him look. i'll divorce my husband to get my kids back. and they said, well, we're gonna leave the kids with josh

for right now. when you get the divorce settled, then we'll come back and we'll look at it. >> that's what was going on in the weeks leading up to the murders. josh and charlene at odds over custody of the kids. all because of charline's husband, ten dean. to find out if this in training bed of drama had anything to do with the crime. that investigation was now headed to the great state of texas. coming up! >> what happened? >> well. trying to turn around. >> a road trip to nowhere is about to ship this case into high gear. >> is there anything in there and need to know about? >> now. >> i've got a shotgun in their. but. nothing illegal. >> no drugs or. >> no. >> stolen guns, or anything? right >> now. >> keep an eye on him. he's got a firearm on him. >> at that point i saw that there is more than meets the eye here. but i did not know what. >> when dateline continues!

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double homicide in small time, upstate new york had moved 1600 miles southwest to small town texas. so the texas panhandle. to farming country. energy. drive north from amarillo, and you'll come upon a place that's not much more of a shadow under the refinery. sun laid texas. population, 1900. it's in the county where lieutenant flood works investigation for the fbi, and the police. he showed me around. >> so tell me about sounds like this. who lives here? what goes on here? >> small town america. farming is predominantly. except for up here, they have the oil refinery. >> i saw refineries. i saw pump jacks coming in.

>> pump jacks. >> and wind farm? >> when pharmacists. taking over. >> the reason we went four to sun ray's because it's the town where charlene's husband served as the chief of police. the department had just three officers. >> what's the mission of being a small police of this are in a town like this? >> narcotics are a haven for small town america. >> really? >> so that's your chronic pain problem? >> theft. and narcotics. >> -- new charlene's husband quite well. he'd hired him years earlier, and was happy to talk when new york police called asking about his history. >> tell me about his guy. who did you meet? >> tim came in. he appeared to be a train-able individual. that's what we were looking for. >> did you have a fire in his belly for law enforcement? thinking about it since he was a kid? >> he was working in a police update department with the academy. did not work out for him. so he applied to do miss. >> a few years later, dean got the top job. but that uniform job ended as

quickly as a slap to the face of his three year old dollar. the races looked at that smartphone incident taken by his wife, and promptly arrested him. tim resigned his position with the police. >> goodbye police chief job? >> for him. yes. >> that's gotta be a shocker right away. police chief is arrested, is out of office, because of child abuse allegations? >> yes. yes. at that point, things start going south for him. >> with his job gone. the state taking away his daughter. and charlene's two kids as well. -- tim dean's life was in a tailspin. >> he actually had to move out and move to a house. >> he's out of his job, away from his kid. out of the house? >> yes. >> and now, new york investigators were wondering if that tailspin had led to a very dark act. a double homicide. >> it was kind of a shock. why are we thinking? this why are we thinking tim? >> here is why it is just a

theory. if losing custody was the reason that charlene was divorcing him. maybe tim dean had a reason to what and josh and amber dead. maybe he could save his marriage, if he helped charlene get his kids back. one way to do that? kill their dad, josh. courts would have no choice but to return the kids to the mom in texas. >> their question, is this guy, timothy dean, our guy in the driver with a gun? >> exactly. >> is this it? >> exactly. so we try to piece it together. >> they obtained a warrant for the cell phone records. squirrel through, it found something intriguing. two days before the murders. tim dean wasn't at home in texas. he was 400 miles away in kansas. and he placed a call to 9-1-1. deputy, cory, of the line county sheriff's office. where the officer who responded to the call. >> he had called it in. that he had had a rack. and was reporting a wreck. >> it was 4 am when the deputy

came upon tim dean at the side of a dark highway. the deputy turned on his body cam. >> what happened? >> well. i was trying to turn around. >> he was sitting in a ditch. not two feet off the roadway. and he got out, and told me that he was making a u-turn. and, hit something. >> okay. got your license and paperwork for this thing? >> this is gonna be fun. it's a damn, rental car. >> you got your rental agreement? >> yeah. >> go ahead and jump in here with me real quick. >> okay, jump into the front passenger seat. >> ten explained that he was lost. and looking for a gas station. >> and you try to turn around? >> yeah. try to turn around out here. >> you just made a big flip around? >> yeah. we don't really do that around here. as you see why. >> yeah. >> the deputy requested a tow. then asked him where he was headed. >> honestly man, i was just driving. my whole life is kind of gone to -- lately. more or less living out of my

car. >> but you had money to get a rental? >> yeah. i still work. just off this weekend. >> you don't want to take your car? >> my car, the starter is acting up on it. >> oh. >> cops like asking questions. and tim dean apparently liked answering them. >> so you're just driving around kansas from texas her? >> yeah. >> the body cam was still rolling as they chatted in the patrol car. it started to sound like dr. phil. >> so where is your wife? >> she's at home. >> that you said you didn't have a home. >> well, when you have a pending divorce and all that fun stuff. yeah that's mine. >> handing the force,? is that why you are out driving around instead of at home? >> yes sir. >> that bad? >> yeah. like i said, it's all gone to -- . >> he told the officer about losing not just his wife. but also his job. >> i work for frito-lay now. used to be a cop. >> where were you a cop?

>> you must first. and then sunday. >> why do -- >> well it has not the da. >> that can happen. >> i was, tackling some pretty big public corruption cases. ended up with a target on my back. and, got arrested by the texas rangers on a -- charge. >> the officer did not know that this conversation would be looked at again later. he just knew that he was getting a weird vibe. >> that point that i was like, okay. this guy just said he had recently been arrested. after being a cop for ten years. why is he and kansas? what is going on? >> all right. if you would stay here. i've gotta take some pictures of the vehicle and stuff. especially since it's insurance. they want more pictures than normal. is there anything in there and need to know about? >> no. i've got a shotgun in there but. nothing illegal. >> no drugs? or >> no. no. >> stolen guns or anything? right >> now. >> we'll hang tight here. i'll be right back.

>> tim dean story was making the deputy twitch. he passed on his concerns to the backup officer, ron. >> keep an eye on him. he's got a firearm on him. he's got a concealed carry. getting a divorce from texas. just out driving around. >> from texas? >> yeah. >> the how is he doing here? >> well. that's what a minister pocono round the vehicle a little bit. >> at that point, i was like there was more than meets the eye here. but, i did not know what. >> this is my personal. >> soon they would learn a lot more about this disgraced police chief in the roadside ditch in kansas. in the middle of the night. >> coming up! >> -- >> we should have videos in the shop. >> they had video. of. timothy dean showing up to pick up a tote. and, i could see in the video that he walked out with a concealable ballistic vest. and the 12 gauge shotgun. >> timothy dean's long strange

trip. exactly what was he up to? >> [inaudible] >> i even told him i had weird vibes about all of this. >> and later? ron. to. three. and interrogation room. >> who? why? what i want to know. >> does double murder would have a triple twist. when dateline continues! >> en dateline continues! >> try downy free & gentle. downy will soften your clothes without dyes or perfumes. the towel washed with downy is softer, and gentler on your skin. try downy free & gentle. the abcs of ckd a is for awareness, because knowing that your chronic kidney disease in type 2 diabetes could progress to dialysis is important. b is for belief that there may be more you can do. just remember that k is for kidneys and kerendia. for adults living with ckd in type 2 diabetes, kerendia is proven to reduce the risk of kidney failure, which can lead to dialysis. kerendia is a once-daily tablet

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when your v-neck looks more like a u-neck, that's when you know, it's half-washed. downy has 7 benefits that condition and smooth fibers so clothes look newer, longer. feel the difference with downy. i got a license of paper for this thing? >> the sheriff's deputy in kansas has resulted to a guy from texas putting us trying to call in a ditch in the middle the night. no big deal. but something about a story was off, somehow. >> my whole life is kind of gone to -- lately. >> it felt like there's something going on. it just didn't fit right. >> he'd have a better day had been normal. >> the strange encountered all but that is my win a few days later the deputy got a surprise

call from the fbi. asking about that traffic accident. the kansas 9-1-1 call had popped up during the search of -- cell phone records. and the fbi was trying to create a timeline for tim dean and a murder investigation. >> i thought, wow, okay, i don't know what i have to offer for this but here's everything i've got. to try to help. >> so now, deputy nikole at cline county's sheriff's department in kansas found himself called into a growing multi state multi agency investigation. they want to hear everything. >> he is asking me if i worked -- who was there, and where was he going. >> without of state investigators eager to hear more of the deputies cited to backtrack and try to figure out where dean had gone after the accident. the deputy visited the garage where the car had been taught. he, again, turn his body come on to report. >> thanks for coming your day off. we appreciate it. >> the garage mechanics remember hoping a tote bag full

of ammo. >> the bag, when i opened up, it was a magazine for the memo. and -- >> big magazine or little magazine? >> big. once i ar style like miniature rifle. >> also into his car, was a long gun. >> that is when i saw the shotgun under the tote. i grabbed the shotgun and i saw a sports fest, i wouldn't say it was bulletproof but it was a sport shooting vest. >> with patrice or something? >> i don't remember there's patches. but it is all black. and it was probably 58 pounds. it had some weight to it. >> did you come in the shop? >> but yeah. >> you have it in the shop? >> yes, we do. >> they had video of timothy dean showing up to pick up a

tow. i could see the video you walked out with a concealable listed vest. and a 12 gauge shotgun. >> the grass grew wondered among themselves what the sky was doing with an arsenal in his car. >> i'm glad you guys are following up on this. because i even told him i had weird vibes about all of this. >> where did tim dean go next. the deputy learned he had an uber and tracked on the driver at her office. she said before trump got into a car he warned her about the goods he was carrying. >> you know, he won't, he goes to shock. and as it is loaded? >> he said no, i said that's fine. i'm not scared of guns. >> she dropped him off at a local hotel. >> that's last you saw him? >> tim dean had left the hotel and got out of town. but how? the deputy assume tim read to a new car after a wreck dispersed. and so he went over to the main car rental company in town.

enterprise. >> you see what i'm talking about? >> sure enough, the rental associate onto the said tim dean had been there. he was the walk-in from texas who didn't have a credit card on him. >> he walked in and then i told them i can cut him because he just had cash on him. i was really upset about, that he just left. >> left, but for where? back into texas? or somewhere else? there is about 48 hours before joshua number would be executed in new york. back in the station, deputy nicolette thought back on that long chat he had with tim dean. and there, on that body cam video, was a back and forth that stopped him cold. >> so are you gonna go? >> well i got a family friend those gonna see but. >> or is that it? >> all the way up in new york. >> new york, the scene of the crime. deputy nicolette relay the

information to the fbi. >> when i said that he was going to new york. everything changed, at that point. >> tim dean's cities come to new york. he's armed with more than one handgun. he's also got an ar-15 with him. a shotgun. >> how does explain all that's the deputy on the side of the road? >> i guess it's not uncommon for people to be in possession of weapons in kansas. but, it becomes instrumental when he admits that he's going to new york. as far as you know, tim theme did not have relatives in new york. >> but he did, they learned, have a fresh frontal picked up. and law enforcement would later have the make, model, cover, and license plate of the vehicle passing surveillance cameras on its way to upstate new york. timothy dean was a heat seeking missile on his way. >> coming up. >> we've always got that the sky has killed two people. we're not getting a chance on him. >> inside the all-out blowout to capture attendees. >> we've got as in the house.

we know we saw. >> they've got explosives in the door. the back. out the back out, nobody is clear. >> could they take him alive? when dateline continues. dateline continues. ♪ ♪ away suitcases are designed with 360-degree spinner wheels.

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to know. >> we are cooperating with the police, trying to get as much information with the police as we could. follow new stories as best as we could. trying to piece things together. >> the police just kept saying be patient. as things come up, be patient. so i was patient. i don't want to interfere and to stop them from finding who killed my son. >> so the families didn't know about october 29th 2018. one week after the murders. five detectives from new york were headed to the texas panhandle. they want to talk with tim dean, charlene says been. >> you take a road trip? >> yes we do, never do it again. that's 24 solid hours of driving. >> they'd come up with a plan to bring him into custody. >> texas decided that they had

still had some charges for him on the complaint. >> this is really a holding action. the plan one ice while you can put the case. or try to talk to him. >> tim dean lived in a 50s one story house on the edge of town. the cops had surveil the home and you he was there. they were treating him as the suspect in a double homicide, not a child abuse or. so they went and strong. after dark. swat teams, uniforms, weapons drawn. i take down right out of seal team six. texas investigator, tom flood, was there. >> how commit could be a knock, knock, knock, you know who we are. we have paper for you. we're gonna serve you. >> sort of the case that this gets killed two people were not to take the chance of him shooting an officer. >> we know he's there they put explosives on the door they back out. every square every situated, the bulk door. >> this iphone footage was taken by a neighbor across the street. as explosions blew out the

front door. >> what a show. it is like a commando operation. >> straight out of military. eventually, does come out, they actually comes about right here in races his hand. >> and, if he had surrendered -- >> that made a poor decision to resist he was gonna go to a shot at that point. >> no. he would've been shot. >> with the suspect in custody. dean, the one-time police chief, was transported to an interrogation room to be questioned by an fbi agent. but of course, the reason department had nothing to do with causing injury to a child. the charge on the arrest warrant. they want to talk to him about amber and josh. >> had never met one person? >> i've been there when you come to get the kids. >> houses the meter. what is the line of the question? >> he's very quite. he doesn't say a whole lot. >> they asked him by the soon to be ex-wife, charlene. the trouble he caused both for kids. >> i did try to lose in custody?

>> obviously not well. >> like anybody else, yeah? >> i mean she's never not had the kids. >> does she blame you? -- probably. >> of course one of the theories was that tim had killed him or josh to when his wife back. >> do you think it get her kids -- help you get her back? >> i know there's no getting back. there hasn't been. >> i mean, in your mind, that a possibility. and you're the prostate and stuff? >> it's done. it's been done. there's no getting her back. i've accepted that. that's why i've been in a -- state of mind. >> is a true you hated josh? >> never even met the man. >> investigators told him they knew he traveled to new york state around the time of the murders. but, why did he drive all the way there? >> i was really medical see her uncle.

that's if i could talk to him and get him to talk some sense of her and maybe -- maybe get her to ride this thing out with me. >> maybe tim did think he couldn't win her back. but, and he had, he admitted he never did see her uncle. just drove, slip, and drink. for a while, the investigators played good cop with him. and seemed to speak to him with a sense of compassion. >> i mean, i got a life is hard. but my version of hard and original hard this different things. i can't say moleskins art. goodness, i can sympathize with you. >> tim told them, yes, he had hit a low point. and offered an explanation as to why he was driving so far from home. >> i left home detention of putting a bullet in my head. so that no one knows me will have to find me and work it. >> okay. >> what changed? >> i turn my phone off, so

nobody could call me for caused him to try to talk me out of it. >> okay. >> the interrogators ever so gently turn the conversation back to the murders. >> what changed? what made change to what happened on that day? >> if you think you're gonna sit here and say that i did that, you're crazy. >> i think you're crazy if you don't, quite honestly. >> them, it's not a question if you did it -- >> as a question of why, and are you sorry? do you think these five different detectives from new york drove i got no down here for no reason? idea why the fbi is >> i here. don't know what they pfizer. >> what happens when you drive. >> i didn't commit the perfect crime. unless suicide is on the fbi's radar. >> the interrogators weren't buying it. and urged him to come clean. >> you're not a monster, man.

you have -- up. there is no doubt about it. but there can be a redemption in life. there couldn't really can. >> what you're showing me right now is that you are a real person. and, not only that. you are a good cop. at some times, right. we all screw up in life. there is a path to redemption, and everything else him. >> when that approach failed, investigators try to rattle him by talking about the victims. >> are you sorry amber and josh got killed? do you hear what i'm saying? >> i hear what you're saying. >> are you sorry that they got killed? i'm not saying you kill them. are you sorry they got killed? >> yes. >> can you say their names? >> charge an amber. >> say, i'm josh allen where got killed. >> i said. it >> no you didn't. >> you said it imparts. >> you know because you can't. you realize you're talking about being in sodus and we

know that. and you're saying that you didn't do, it but you know presumably that. >> i take my chances i guess. >> the investigators worked hard to break him. but they never did get a confession. >> i've never been in the presence of a bigger coward. >> fortunately, tim dean wasn't the only person they wanted to talk to. there was, can you believe it, another local cop on a list of persons of interest. coming up! but >> you like police work? >> yes ma'am. >> two cops. but in the middle of a murder plot? >> they have a decision to make. whether he wants to be a good witness, or he wants to be charged in conspiracy to commit two murders. >> definitely don't want that. >> so he is way in the slime at this point? >> yeah. he was hit with all the truth. >> soon, he would have a killer secret to reveal. >> you overheard scene say what? >> when dateline continues! when dateline continues well, you bundled home and auto with progressive, so you have round-the-clock protection on all your stuff.

like that cardboard tv. i told props to switch that out. okay, everyone, that's a wrap. [ bell rings ] wait, you faked this whole thing? i knew it was the quickest way to see you. i'm sorry, jon, but i'm already in love with insurance. you know that's weird, right? well, any weirder than faking a burst pipe? got a little carried away. yeah. [ coughing/sneezing ] [ door knocking ] got a little carried away. dude, you coming? because the only thing dripping should be your style! plop plop fizz fizz, winter warriors with alka-seltzer plus cold & flu relief. did i tell ya i got my car from carvana? oh! tens of thousands of mud-chugging options. it was just so easy to find a car within my budget. i'm just happy i was able to pick this baby. good on ya! i'm dara brown. we'll drive you happy at carvana.

here's what's happening. they launch another ballistic missile towards the sea of japan saturday. this is the seventh time that tanker ship has fired in the past two weeks. u.s. impose additional sanctions on north korea over the launches on friday. and over 38,000 people remain without power in florida. in the wake of hurricane ian. many roads are flooded, and passable over a week later. so far, it has been raining for over 138 deaths. making it the deadliest one since 1935. now back to dateline! w back to dateline tim dean stuck to his story. he had driven to new york with suicide in mind. >> unless suicide is on the fbi's radar. >> his interrogators did not believe him for an instant. but they had another lead to pursue. another cop, in fact. a man named ron. >> so brian how do you see his

last name? >> bowler. >> bowler? never heard it say it out loud. >> he is a police officer. >> yes he is. >> he had served 11 years as a texas cop. he had worked for the cactus police department and saw most recently at sun ray after tim loved his job there. and he was a family man, a husband, a father, and a friend to tim dean. so how did officer braun come on to the police radar? >> okay. got your license and paperwork for this thing? >> well, it goes back to that rental car that tim dean put in a ditch in kansas. it was brown's name on the rentals papers, not tim's. they steadily picked up on that right away. >> this is bowler brown. >> he's a buddy of mine. >> that's gonna cause you more problems than anything. >> i know. >> so he rented the car for you? >> yeah. i was like at work. i wasn't going to make it in time. i'm not looking forward to that phone call. that'll bite him in the as

pretty big. and likely's work . >> banana for seven years. >> he didn't hesitate about the rental car. sure, he admitted it for him, he said. that's what friends do. after all, tim's life at that point was a mess. >> his credit card for that? and what's behind? hey >> yeah, it's only, rick over the weekend. i said, okay, not a problem. >> dinnertime was fine to go with it? >> no, he told. up tom's phone call about the reckoning consequences price. >> did you casualness? >> at first, no. got to go up there for every to light, you know. i was like, okay. i took a face value. and i was like, hey man a-ok. that something. he says yeah he's good. the cars pdf up. i was like, okay, you know we

got insurance will get a fixed. >> dean never mentioned on a road trip, that was gonna go to new york? they didn't go anywhere? just use that car, a rental car, locally? >> yes sir. >> our task you, elaine about knowing that the most ignorance got to new york law would you say? >> i would say no. >> okay. and that's the truth right? >> yes sir. >> he agreed to take a polygraph. he failed miserably. >> you feel that question, okay? >> the risk is now approaching cop to cop. >> some of the set. or brothers. >> yes sir. >> it was fake, or cut bait time. >> iran has a decision to make. but i want to be a good witness. or you won't be charged in conspiracy to commit two murders. >> definitely don't want that. >> so he was hit with all the truth. >> broncos to cooperate. and told a startling story. how a murder plot came together. >> sourcing overheard and say

what? >> efforts gonna die. >> i first gonna die? >> ron said the goal of temperatures had never been suicide. he had gone to new york, he said, to murder josh. plain and simple. >> he was going up there to come. >> if it is gonna go up there to come? >> yes, sir. >> and the chilling details. he said the murder had been planned at the meeting at him house inside his garage. that same house the swat team later blow their way into to make the arrest on him. >> the plan was laid then. you would give the car not as near someone get caught. i'll be damned. you are very important witness, brand. >> yes, sir. >> a witness who could scrape out two cops could come to plot to murder. >> and this is the garage. this is where the meetings took place. and at least one of those meetings, broncos here, while

he was -- >> so he's in uniform? i kept thinking, where we are 15 miles away. there's a guy in upstate new york. who's dead now. no he has no idea what is going down in the scratch. in the panhandle of texas. >> he knew what did. >> what's going on here? >> president factory walk there, as a police officer. thomas is fine and he was going to do whatever you could help him. >> including get a rental car soup drive across the country in color guy? >> exactly. >> when bronze interview ended those ten fallen back to his house while the authorities prepared an arrest warrant. >> he got home, we arrest him. >> your career law enforcement, tom? doesn't embarrass it ever talked about two guys were sworn officers here? >> it is embarrassing to think that they felt like they could do this and get away with it. it is a shame that i want to this point. they knew there was other options. but they want to take it the way that is going to get

somebody killed. that is just not. they know that. >> that the majority of sunrays three men for, past and present, under arrest. but the investigation was far from over. someone else they had i'd all along was still in the crosshairs. they were back to where they had started, with a certain embittered young woman from texas. >> coming up. >> i call this mom. and she's like, charlene what is going on? >> josh is dead. i hit the floor. >> really? >> what the heck is going on. it still feels a horrible bad dream. >> josh's ex, charlene. >> you need to look at charlene. i said, i pray it is not. >> what story would she tell? >> the driven thing to do with him shooting josh an amber? when dateline continues. dateline continues.

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>> well. i was trying to turn around. >> that accident in kansas proved the undoing attendee in. found with a car full of guns and ammo on his way to new york state. the very place where the murders word occur. >> where was that? that >> way up in new york. >> but here's a question about the theory of the crime. was tim a desperate, depressed man on the wish it to went back on his wife? or, was his wife in on? it all along the detectives consider the possibility that they not only knew about the plan to murder charge, but maybe had talked him into doing it as play back for his blunder in losing the kids. >> so you owe me tim dean, you owe me a big one here. >> yes. >> it was a theory that came to resonate for some of josh and

embers loved ones. >> he had a couple of friends that they were like you need to look at charlie. >> did you say oh no that can't be done? >> i did say. oh no it couldn't be. i said oh no i pray it's not. >> in fact, josh's sister nicole had given police an earful about charlene early on. >> cops came into my house and told me what happened and ask me if my brother had enemies. and i said he does not have enemies but he does have charlene. >> nicole right away says it's her. >> her and josh's best friend katie. they both said i don't think she should be her, i think it might have been her. and i said that's crazy. >> by the time of the funerals, even embers sister who had never met charlie thought that she might be involved. >> i saw her for the first time in my life at the funeral. and, i just got cold chills. and i remember speaking at the funeral, given my sister's eulogy. seeking her out. and in the crowd. just to make eye contact with her. when i was talking about how

good my mother, her sister, was to children. >> and you had -- >> yes. >> big and the bad-mouthing of josh depicting as a violent, that guy. there was a case against charlene and it was a big factor. in her early phone calls, she claimed she learned of josh's death on facebook. that she had seen a picture of the house and the street addressed with that in fact did not happen. the street was made public, but not the house or number. >> that was a liar because that was not photographed. >> she couldn't? >> she could've seen it. >> so how did she know unless she was part of the plot? eight days after the murders, detectives picked up charlene at her boyfriend, casey's house. >> we knocked on the door, and asked charlene to come with us. she didn't seem fazed by the whole thing. she didn't seem shocked. >> she didn't say i got a lawyer? we're done here? >> no. >> so she came down? >> she did. she lit willingly talk to us for quite awhile. >> hello. nice to meet you. >> conversation was cordial as they walk through her back

story. charlene told them how surprised she had been when she found out that her ex boyfriend was dead. >> so i called his mom. and she says, charlene, yes what's going on? josh is dead. i had the floor. >> really. >> what the hell is going on? >> yeah. >> it still feels like a horrible bad dream. >> right. >> how could, who, why? that's what i want to know. >> could tim of been the shooter, they asked her? did he arbor elwell against russia. >> he knew the stuff that josh had done to me. >> what do you mean? >> josh used to be the hell out of me. >> oh really? >> but. you know. tim had never really spoke to bat about him. you know. it was more of if i could ever get into a fight with him i would fight him. >> do you think that tim is capable of this? >> i can't see it.

unless it was on the job, protection. >> right. >> i can't see him. he is not that type of person. >> right. >> charlene denied knowledge of tim's murderous plans. but detectives had learned something else about her. and it went back to that rental car that he ended up crashing. charlene had driven to pick it up at the start of the road trip. >> did you take somebody to go around and get your vehicle? >> i took my friend to go get the vehicle. >> who is that? >> ron. i can't say easements name. ron. >> ron? >> ron. >> she said she was simply doing a friend of favor. never asked him who or what it was for. >> he did it think it was unusual? this guy didn't talk among the way? getting a vehicle? >> what? >> isn't that kind of unusual? >> i just keep people's privacy. we talked with just about that. >> but there was so much more to the saga of the wrecked rental car. remember how he had trouble renting a replacement because

he only had cash? >> he was really upset about that many just left. >> detectives now learned that it was charlene herself, who drove in at least 500 miles. credit card in hand. to get tim dean back on the road. >> did you help him? >> i drove up there. to come to the rental car. >> did he tell you where he was going? what he was doing? >> nope. i don't ask questions. i don't care. >> honestly, i assumed it was for work. >> okay. >> he works for frito-lay now. so he travels all the damn time. >> the more she talked, the more radioactive she became as a suspect. >> i got around saturday night, i think. >> how long, how long is that? >> about five hours for me. >> holy cow. >> that's awful nice. >> he filled up my gas tank. >> better as he would've. >> so i was like, last resort, i was like ask anybody else that you can because i don't feel like coming america after work. i don't feel like -- for you. i don't feel. what if i get stranded. but i kind of feel like, you

know what -- you. >> no i understand. >> karma, it comes around. >> but charlene didn't seem like somebody who would do a big favor for the man who had essentially ruined her life, by causing her custody of the kids. they cut to the chase. >> did you have anything to do with him shooting josh and amber? >> no. >> did you put him up to it? >> no. >> i'm seeing a woman in her twenties, who is actually trying to convince a police officer. an experienced police officer. much like a teenager word, that her story is real. and watching her interview. it does not believable. >> all right, i got a couple things, that are not driving that i want to talk to you about specifically. >> they were about to turn of the heat. >> before i do that, we're gonna read miranda rights. >> coming up! >> i had just lost my kids. i said, you know what, i can't deal with. it's i can't deal with a depression, and the sadness anymore. i need my kids.

my kids in my life. and, he looked at me and he was like. what do we do? >> a desperate mom. how deep did this plot go? >> i didn't think it was going to happen. i blame myself for everything. >> when dateline continues! when dateline continues to become dangerous. tide pods child-guard pack helps keep your laundry pacs in a safe place and your child safer. to close, twist until it clicks. tide pods child-guard packaging. why hide your skin if dupixent has your moderate-to-severe eczema or atopic dermatitis under control? hide my skin? not me. by hitting eczema where it counts, dupixent helps heal your skin from within, keeping you one step ahead of eczema. hide my skin? not me. and that means long-lasting clearer skin and fast itch relief for adults. with dupixent, you can show more skin with less eczema. hide my skin? not me. serious allergic reactions can occur that can be severe.

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bat it all away. those investigative details that seem to tie her to josh and embers murders. >> where do after that? >> but the detectives grilled her deep into the night. >> it was 1:30 in the morning. i had about two hours asleep, in two days. and, all i could think about was getting home to my children. >> did you ever get back to them? >> now. >> that was it wasn't it? >> yes. >> never saw them again, because she arlene started to spell. >> watch and listen now as she gives it up. the story that she told us is

much the same as the story she would eventually tell the authorities. how she became a killer. >> i blame myself for everything. >> charlene says it started after that august court hearing in new york state where she lost custody of her kids. she and tim brought a long drive back to texas when she came undone. >> i had just lost my kids, at least for the school year. and i said, you know what, i can't deal with this. i can't deal with a depression in the sadness anymore. i need my kids. my kids are my life. and, he looked at me and he's like, what we do? >> charlene had the answer. >> i was like, he's gotta go. he's gotta go. >> so you say to tim we've got to do something and what does he say back to you? >> okay. >> okay? i will kill him. is that what you understood him to say? >> he said okay. >> did you realize that you had crossed the line there? >> not at the time, because it

was just talk. >> this is the moment that you became the architect of a murder. >> yeah. but at the time i didn't think it was going to happen. >> maybe not right then and there. but after visiting her children in new york. two months later. the wheels in her head were still turning. >> my son is falling his eyes out to me saying how he hated up here, he wants to come home with me, he wants me to steal him away and that hit me. it was, anyone who knows my son knows that he doesn't just fall his eyes out like that. >> did this put you back in that place where you had that conversation back when? >> yes. >> she says when she returned home to texas, as she told her husband him that it was showtime. >> i'm telling him that, you know, now it needs to be done. >> and what needs to be done is josh needs to be killed? >> yes. >> and tim is gonna be the agent of bringing that off? >> yes. >> he's gonna be the killer? >> yes.

>> that missiles often going at this point isn't it? >> yes. >> you've lit the fuse? >> yes. >> so they planned it in that garage. yes, charlene was there to. she, tim, and his friend ron were working out the logistics of the murder plot. ron agreed to rent the car, tim would drive it to new york. >> what was his understanding of what was going on and what he, you are asking him to do? >> to go out to new york to handle business. >> so he says, i'm good for that? >> yes. >> what is the understanding between you and tim about what is afoot at this point? >> i thought he was gonna draw up. kill josh, and come back. >> charlene, that makes you a murder. do you realize that? you have commission this. the gun is in your hand, every bit as much as it is when you say go do this thing. where in it together. do you get that? >> yes i do. >> so what are, your what are

your words to tim when he heads out? >> that i love him. >> she still loved him, their broken marriage wasn't so broken, the divorce talk was just part of a plan to win the children back. and so her husband, former chief of police of sun ray texas. began the journey north. with his bag full of guns. then came the hiccup that car accident in kansas. >> he called me had for him. says, i wrecked the rental car. >> and what are you supposed to do? get him a fresh set of wheels? >> i tried. >> you guys well know how law enforcement works. >> yes. >> you're on the record, this would be a great thing to called this off? maybe assigned this wasn't meant to be? we try to go to new york, ended up in a ditch in kansas? but you go up there. what do you do? >> i picked him up from the

motel and i drove him to an airport. so he could rent a vehicle. >> on the go. part two. plan is on. did you give him encouragement? >> not really encouragement. but i gave him the debit card, and, credit cards if he needs a. and,. >> here's your new ride. go to new york and kill the father of my children? >> yes. >> fresh eileen, there was no turning back. she drove back home to texas and waited. >> how do you find out? >> i got home from work on monday the 22nd of october. i saw the news articles of shootings in sodas. >> so according to her own words, charlene talked her husband into murder. a skillful manipulation. now she had been caught, which she tried to manipulate the system as well? coming up. >> she is a master manipulator. >> that made me sick to my

stomach. >> taking us for a bunch of passes. >> could charlene strike one more deal? >> you realize how much misery you've caused, charlie. to so many human beings? how many families are destroyed? because you wanted to have what you wanted to have? do you have any memories for that? >> tons. >> i gotta say, it doesn't really show. i don't know how it was a look, but i don't think i'm seeing it. >> when dateline continues! continues

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>> taking us for a bunch of passes. >> yeah, going to josh and embers visual. going to their funeral services. >> seeing all the right things that people say in those situations? >> right. and then to find out that she was the one. the participant in killing. made me sick. it's like, who could even do that? >> it's almost like compounding the awfulness of the crime itself. >> yes. >> she hugs me and tells me that she is so sorry for everything. >> and knowing what to know? now >> yeah. i can't wash that off me. >> it's josh! >> not to mention the show that she put on at the vigil. >> it's now made it to where my kids are affected. and that's nothing the kid should ever have to deal with. >> and she said, i hope there is justice. i hope justice is served. >> what do you think about that conduct? >> i think she's a narcissist. i think that she made herself believe she had nothing to do with it. to have a straight face during the whole thing. like she was part of us. and she was not. >> that's really moderates

behavior. i mean, there is the crime in itself of setting it off. what you do. but then there's the other thing of cutting writing into these peoples homes. and say i'm so sorry for your loss, and irresponsible for the last. that's a horrible thing. how could you do that? >> it was hard. >> the families were also disgusted by tim dean. how could a police chief suddenly become a stone cold killer? >> he didn't even know my son. and to come up here and drive thousands of miles? and shoot him? for what? >> i'm assistant district attorney says not for what. but for whom. >> you described her as a master multiple later. special manipulative skills when it came to man? >> absolutely. she always utilized the man in her life. she utilize tim to kill josh.

she was into active relationships throughout the case. she was still writing letters to timothy dean. professing that he was the love of her life. but also then, casey miller. visited her 60 times of the jail. >> charlene and tim were potentially facing life in prison as the trials approached. the da wonder if they would turn on each other when they got to the trial. >> her statements to police ended up being admissible. and at that time, her attorney reaches out and wants to talk about her coming to the table and cooperating. >> what could she be trusted? >> i didn't think she'd be able to tell the truth. she is a master manipulator. so, i came into that thinking that it wasn't going to work out. that she would do the one thing that she has always done throughout the case. and that is, protect herself. and do what is best for her. >> so the da was skeptical as they cut her a deal. pleading guilty to manslaughter in exchange for telling the truth. and nothing but the truth. to a jury. >> so she is a wild card.

going into trial? >> absolutely. at this point, i don't know if she is going to stick to the agreement. and come through. and testify, and actually said on the stand in public and admit to what she had done. >> even without charlene and the case against tim dean was strong. his dna was found in that scheme asked that the police dogs sniffed out a block from the murders. and although police never tracked down the gun. they think it came from, where else? the department where tim used to work. >> what is believed is that it was taken from sun ray police department. >> property? room >> yes. >> when she took the stand, charlene deadly it all out for the jury. how she dispatched her husband on a mission to kill josh. and it played out more or less as she had hoped. except for one important detail. she says, she never wanted amber today. >> she was not supposed to be involved. >> and it would've been okay if josh is? that because that was a plan. >> it was the plan.

yes. okay? no. i mean, itself, it still was a shock that it actually happened. yes it was planned to happen. >> it was planned by eu. >> yes. >> you like this girl. >> i did. >> you thought she was a good surrogate mom for your kids? >> yes. >> and there she is with her gun right against the back of her ear. blew her brains out. your guy, under your orders. >> no. those were not my orders. she was never in the plants. ever. >> at trial, charlene's credibility was an easy target for tim's defense attorney. >> she's a walking, talking. contradiction of herself. she, i don't know if he is capable of telling the truth. >> weather defensively stand? >> but in the end. her story was too evil. too cold. to dismiss. it took the jury just four hours to conduct timothy dean

of your murder. >> we the jury find him guilty. >> we all knew what it was gonna be. but still, we were all just so relieved to hear that first strong guilty. verdict. >> tim was sentenced to life in prison. ron bowler got 1 to 3 years for a second degree conspiracy. and charlie? as serving 28 years. wayne county district attorney mike. >> the file analysis, tim dean is the one who pulled the trigger. we felt the proffer, and resolution as to charlie and appropriate under the circumstances. >> 28 years as plenty of time for charlene, if she chooses, to think about all of the carnage that she unleashed. >> do you realize how much misery you've caused charlie? and to so many human beings in the course of this? >> yes. >> how many families are destroyed?

because you wanted to have what you wanted to have? do you have any remorse for that? >> tons. >> i have to say, it doesn't really show. i don't know how remorse's basilica. but i don't think of cnet. you seem to be okay with what has happened. >> on the outside. maybe. >> what happened to you? >> i'm bad choices. and i regret them every single day. >> near the end of our interview, charlene stepped away. and spoke to her attorney. >> i need a break. >> she returned to her chair, more emotional this time. >> what do you tell people who are pretty quickly to call you a monster. just flat out evil. >> i'm a human being. i make mistakes. this was, ultimately, the biggest mistake i have ever done. i'm sorry. and more than i can express. every day, it runs through me.

>> and you are protecting now, it's not gonna get you as much as a baloney sandwich? >> i know what i did was wrong. and i know saris are not good enough. and it will never be good enough. >> both amber and judges families are trying to put this all behind them now. if not for their own sake, for the children involved. >> while they are the light of all of our lives. >> josh's sister, nicole, gained custody of josh and trillions to kids. >> they are my babies. they're my piece of josh. i wouldn't know what to do without them. >> and amber's parents made a home for that little boy who witnessed it all. the boy in the black sea. josh junior. >> this little guy has been our godsend. without him, i don't know how we would've made it through. josh is literally the glue that holds this family together right now. >> how are you keeping embers member alive for josh junior?

>> we have pictures all over the house. every night, before he goes to bed. and every morning. we say, goodnight to sow them grandma and grandpa love. your mom and ed love you more. >> >> i'm craig melvin. >> and i'm natalie morales. >> and this is "dateline." >> i have a lot of guilt still in me. it makes me sick how i could do something like that. i am the responsible one. >> a working mom, new at the office. she loved her job and really loved her handsome young boss. >> the thing that i never wanted to face was the hurt that i was going to cause. >> a passionate nine to five affair. the problem, she was married and so was he. >> i grabbed his face. i was like, you know what, i love you. i am