thanks for watching the katie fang show, i'll be back next saturday and sunday at 7 am eastern. velshi starts right now. >> dan value there is new reporting this weekend that a certain twice impeached ex president made off with a bunch of top secret government documents when he was voted out of office. may have had plans for that loop. and some wild new reporting from the new york times. i'll be joined live by the foremost experts on the shady dealings of the former president. this former fixer and personal attorney, michael cohen. plus, our weekly tour of the races around the country where democracy is at stake this november. bringing us to georgia today. -- and maybe inextricable coffee for this.

one the supreme court is about to hear a case you might not have heard of, that concerns a benign sounding theory about state legislatures. this case could quite literally and democracy as we know it. there is not been nearly enough conversation about this case, and we are gonna change that this morning. then every politico in the bell when trying to figure out how the republican overreach that landed us in this dystopian row post row reality is going to effect next month's elections. one louisiana candidate is literally embodying the shifting landscape. we're gonna tell you her remarkable story and we will meet her in the next hour. velshi begins right now. good morning, feel it is an effort in the ninth. i am a label. she just must election. they were officially in -- of the 2020 midterms. is the first major election since the 2020 presidential election, and the insurrection of the. capital as well into these last

weeks of the election cycle, the former president's grip on the republican party is coming into tight focus. even though his name would appear on any ballot anywhere in the country, the sad unfortunate and undeniable truth is that his corrupting influence is felt far and wide. many republicans are taking their cues from trump's casting their political prisoners after. him copying his combative. style having to avoid answering questions about their past, moral ethical and political shortcomings. we are living through an exceptionally tumultuous era in modern politics. marked by the resurgence of far-right extremist portend militias. and the widespread dissemination of disinformation and conspiracy theories. it is an era when people are freely referencing the repeat of the civil war. the deadliest born american history. in everyday political

discourse. according to the new york times. mentions of civil war spiked on various social media platforms in early august. shortly after the news broke that the fbi executed a court authorized search of mar-a-lago, trump's palm beach residents. the -- has to change. a civil war is not a response to any story. but this kind of summarizes the current moment in the. nutshell the republican party has transformed itself into a power hungry cult of personality. with an incoherent set of values. and it did not have to be this way. since trump emerged as a political force in 2016 and number of republicans have tried to counter trump's rise. congresswoman liz cheney has practically made it her mission to give people an alternative to trump. she has even floated the idea of running for president in 2020 for herself as a spoiler candidate, in the hopes of blunting the twice impeached insurrectionist ex presidents chances of retaking the white

house. on tuesday, representative cheney made an appearance in arizona during which she urged residents not to vote for fellow republicans carrie lake and mark finchem. like is running for governor, finch it for secretary of state. both have been staunch election deniers. despite the fact that trump's victory in arizona has been declared multiple times after the states recounts in their audits. the thing is, the republican party willing we chose this pa your all. when presented with other options and how to proceed to the party, they chose trump and his megalomaniacal bid to hang on to power. that was clearly reflected in the outcome of this year's primaries. according to a new washington post analysis, 299 of the republican parties candidates for congress and top state executive positions are election deniers who cast doubts about the legitimacy of joe biden's presidential victory. that is, by the way, more than half of all republicans running

four key positions this year. of those 299 election denying candidates, that's them on the screen, 173 of them are favored to win their race this year. well 52 others are on competitive races this could've been historic consequences for american democracy, because among those groups of election deniers running for governor. secretary of state. for attorney general and states like arizona and wisconsin and pennsylvania. , remember those are the states where trump and his merry bid out bubbling fools troy don't plummet their fake election scheme to overturn the results of the election. it is possible in a couple of years as there is also the 2024 presidential elections are being certified, people like lake and friendship in arizona and mastriano in pennsylvania, they're 150 members of congress who spent the last two years

sowing seeds of doubt about the legitimacy of joe biden's victory, it is likely they will be in positions of power that have an outsized influence on the outcome of future elections. what they might do with that power is what voters need to be thinking about today. for more on, this i'm joined by amy garner. and the pulitzer prize-winning national political reporter for the washington post. who put together this analysis of the republican parties candidates in this election. , amy good morning to you thank you for joining. us thank you for the important work you've done. we knew this anecdotally. we sort of knew there were a whole bunch of people who were playing footsie with election denial. but you put it in black and white and a few other colors. the idea that there are so many of them who actually have a material impact on the outcome of the presidential election. >> i'm glad to be here, and thank you for that. that was very kind. >> what do you see? we expect in this outcome? did you know this is the

outcome you would want? >> yes. in. award i think we move significantly lessened the many of us have drawn from our current political climate really going back to the attack on the capitol on january six, 2021, is that that was not the end. that was the beginning or middle trapped or. it is also contractors are continue to unfold. the washington post posted a investigation of january six. one thing that we found is that the forces that led to that violence, and the false and unfounded claims of how the 2020 election was allegedly raped we're continuing to be sold to republican voters and trump supporters around the country.

so, no i was not. surprised it was good to document in various ways how the republican party had been taken over by trump and false claims about 2020. and how that message has dominated on the republican side. and also cast forward as you put it in the introduction, how that has the potential to affect our democracy as we head to wards the presidential election again in 2024. with many of these people in office when that-year-olds around. e in>> there are interesting lie distinctions, when you crossed tabulate look at some of those results, for instance. people like harry lake running for results in arizona. doug mastriano in arizona. they are discussing actually the things that they would do that would've changed the results of the 2020 election, they are not just election deniers. then there are others who just sort of say, almost benignly, well we are not really sure we did not really know the results. it is never been really truly

adjudicated. do you make a distinction between those two types of actual deniers versus people who have said they would come to a different result about the 2020 election? >> absolutely. there is definitely a spectrum of actions that we wanted to capture with this project. and you are absolutely right that at one end of the extreme end of the spectrum are individuals like blake mastriano who say unequivocally that they would not have certified the results in arizona and pennsylvania, despite the lack of evidence. this is evidence that trump won that state. -- it's one of the most extreme people in our product. she's called for her opponent, katie, hobbs democratic nominee for governor, to be put in jail for certifying the 2020 results. which is a remarkable statement, really, the people should think about and absorb. to your, point we wanted to

capture a broader spectrum of candidates who's trading on the rhetoric in some way, casting doubt on the election in 2020. that includes people when confronted in a public setting, who refused to answer the question and sidestepped the question about whether the 2020 election was rigged. there are people who actually say today that joe biden is our president, that is a sidestep of a question that was posed to, them was the 2020 election rigged? these are people trying to wriggle the way through this moment in the republican parties, ecosystem. and we wanted to capture that because there is a danger here of people getting away with, sandra bennett is our president right now. but still trying to court

voters who believe the election was rigged. >> there is one other across tabulation that i found interesting in here. when you're the examples i use is wry blinds in missouri. he is a republican, he has been a trump supporter in the past. but he is not an election denier. but he is likely to be replaced by somebody who is. even amongst republicans is not just a question of do i vote republican because democracy is at stake. there are some republicans who are running actually support trump but to not support election denial. >> right, i mean, you. no do not forget that the congress, the republican congress on the health side at least, was already dominated by people with a false claim. one of the -- was just voting against the electoral count to 2026, after the violence had subsided last year. and there were, it will run for this, number on hundred and 47 republicans who voted against the counting that day. 139 of them were in the house.

in many many many of, them i cannot remember if it was the majority or not. we're running for the election. that was just in the media yes, check the box. but then as you pointed out, there are also people who are trying to be aligned with trump. and have the support of his voters. who have stopped short of actively embracing or even sidestepping the question of 2020. we were very careful not to include in the workout, candidates who talked about the doubts of the constituents have. and you talk about the need for election integrity. that is a separate category that is worth noting but it is a little gray or in our view. >> i appreciate the nuance of this because it is a new of a remarkably important conversation. if you're waiting at the way you have an researching at the way you have, somebody can read it and say, all right, you don't have a dog in this hunt other than saving democracy. so it is really important work

that you and your colleagues have done. , amy thanks very much for joining us to talk to us about. it i recommend that everybody read to this report and article in the washington post. amy gardner's a national political reporter with the post. joining me now is matthew seligman, a lawyer at legal seller and fellow with the constitutional law center at stanford law. , matt good to have you. here thank you for being with us. good news, i don't know if it's good news or bad, news mostly bad news this story that amy was just telling us. but, let's talk about the safeguards that exist right now, because there are whole bunch of americans, saying they cannot do it last time in 2020. they're not gonna be able to do it next time. i'm not sure that's true. me i'>> thanks for having me on. i'm not sure it's true either. if we look back to 2020 january 6th, there was no result in -- two voted nihilist rolls out and they. state we didn't see any

governor certify a fix level. when we didn't see a single senator say try to reverse the results of an election. including extreme political pressure from the president. we can be sure that anyone is going to be true in 2024. so i do not think that we can rest on the fact that ultimately joe biden was not period on january six of 2020, to disregard the risks going forward. >> of those people who did make the right decision, probably the legally right decision, i think about mike pence doing it, but he relied on the advice of judge michael luttig. i think what brad raffensperger who said that you could flip 11,000 votes despite the pressure on it. is that because of the law was that because of the people. what are they depending on to determine if the 2024 election is safety? >> i think we are like part depending on the good faith and committed to the ideals of democracy, people in positions

of political power. one of the different aspects of the presidential election of 20, 20 from prior disputes, is that in entered into the realm of dispute outside of court. we've seen these presidential elections, before like 2000 in bush. for but immediately after the supreme court had bush v. gore, -- said i disagree with the result but i accept it. and then on january six, 2000, one vice president gore presided over the electoral count when -- counted and as the it coming president. what have now is that we're operating at a place where -- without getting involved in decisions getting rendered. as a result of, that the legal guardrails are much much bigger. >> there are two bills of the, moment congress, that aim to have the electoral count act at the center of what happened on january six. 2021.

they're both different and there are some differences between. them and in your legal, opinion both of them are miles away from where we are right now and both can be an improvement. >> that's absolutely correct. they are important and meaningful distinctions in differences between the two bills. and it is important to talk about them and hope to come to a compromise, it is better than either of them are right. now but about three inches or difference between these two bills, and 1000 miles a difference between either of them in the status quo. both of these bills make enormous progress towards legal restrictions and ultimately judicial review and a place to resolve disputes. so you cannot have governors just going rogue and certifying states electors. congress is at least supposed to follow court decisions, and not reject electoral votes on the basis of conspiracy theories. including the judiciary, ultimately, in the final decision making authority. rather than politicians. >> matt, this is an important discussion we touch on things that we actually spent hours an

hours and hours looking into. but we appreciate the release giving us an introduction into. it so breakthrough. that math is a lawyer, legal fellow and -- at the constitutional law center stand for. law lessen a, month democracy itself as we've discussed is on the. ballots coming up, continue our deep dive into the important state races that will determine our future as a democracy. today, we're going down to georgia where trump was seeking to find several thousand votes that he did not actually win in 2020. plus, trump's former fixer and lawyer michael cohen lay weighs in on the legal peril that he believes his former boss is actually in. it's the latest on the war in ukraine. one of putin's pet projects and a strategically vital bridge linking russia and crimea has been crippled. a live report from moscow, next. from moscow, next or an unbearable itch. this painful, blistering rash can disrupt your life for weeks. it could make your workday feel impossible.

the virus that causes shingles is likely already inside of you. if you're 50 years or older, ask your doctor or pharmacist about shingles. it's the subway series menu. 12 irresistible subs. the most epic sandwich roster ever created. ♪♪ it's subway's biggest refresh yet! (vo) with their verizon private 5g network, associated british ports can now precisely orchestrate nearly 600,000 vehicles passing through their uk port every year. don't just connect your business. (dock worker) right on time. (vo) make it even smarter. we call this enterprise intelligence. >> russia has appointed one

single commander to have all its forces in ukraine. russia's ministry of defense

since sunday syrup looking will oversee all military activities in ukraine, he's the first person to be handed solo charge of russia's military since the start of the invasion. his apartment follows weeks of setbacks for the russian military, in a major attack on a crimean target. yesterday, an explosion rocked the coach bridge that connects russia to crimea. russian officials say the strike took down a large section of the road and caused several fuel tankers catch fire. three people were killed in the blast. the bridge is the only direct route between russia and crimea. logistically, it plays a vital role in the war, with russia using into shuttle supplies from the mainland to the southern front in the war with ukraine. the russian government controls the news agency that says putin has instructed the government to create a new government commission to investigate the matter. several hours later, ukraine says a series of russian strikes hit residential apartment buildings and other targets in the city of zaporizhzhia. more than one dozen people were

killed in that city, which remained under ukrainian control, but it's in reaching that moscow has now claimed as its own. the same region is home to the zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant. un's nuclear watchdog agency says europe's largest nuclear power plant lost's last remaining external power yesterday as a result of the renewed shelling. the international atomic energy agency says the plants linked to a 750 kill of old power line was cut overnight, saturday. joining me live in moscow now is nbc news chief international correspondent keir simmons. good afternoon to you in moscow, what's the reaction to the attack on the kerch bridge? >> ali, the russian government will be both furious and anxious. you can tell that from the changes it has been making over the weekend, immediately after the explosions that you are seeing there now. you mentioned, appointing the general in charge of the ukraine operation as of the sdf the success to guard the bridge

from now on investigating exactly what is happening there, the russian media has been a trump, carrying fertilizer over the bridge, appointed which the bridge exploded, and on the bridge next door, a train carrying fuel. so how did this happen will be crucial to the kremlin, they want to make sure it doesn't happen again. and then there are these hard-line voices, louder than ever now going through the weekend. the bloggers, military bloggers loyal to president putin are now openly criticizing russia's military operation saying, for example that ukraine should be pushed back into the 18th century. as a crucial point, ali. what is happening is those hard-liners have allowed voices, and they are increasingly around president putin. there are no more liberals left, it does not seem, surrounding the russian leader. >> keir simmons, thank you for your support. we appreciate you as, only

international correspondent keir simmons in moscow. even in our tumultuous political times, here's something and one can agree on. inflation hurts. but what we can agree on is how to fix it, we will talk about solutions and the role the federal reserve is playing, with financial expert, and only price. price. but what about the new boss? it looks so good it makes me hangry! settle down there, big guy the new subway series. what's your pick? nina's got a lot of ideas for the future. and since anyone can create a free plan at fidelity, nina has a plan based on what matters most to her. and she can simply focus on right now. that's the planning effect. from fidelity. fanduel and draftkings, two out of state corporations on right now. making big promises. what's the real math behind prop 27, their ballot measure for online sports betting? 90% of profits go to the out of state corporations permanently.

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it's the subway series menu. 12 irresistible subs. the most epic sandwich roster ever created. ♪♪ it's subway's biggest refresh yet! >> the united nations is a message for the united states federal reserve. stop raising interest rates. and also, a warning. the fed and other central banks around the world are pushing the global economy into a recession. one, the un conference on trade development says that could dwarf the financial crisis of 2008. but these are strong words from an organization that rarely, if ever, wades into the waters of the global economy. let's consider for a moment the role of the federal reserve, that is the building, by the way, in washington. it is america's a political independent central bank,

ostensibly free of political influence by the legislative and executive branches of government. it's stated goals are to promote maximum employment, stabilize prices and boost stability in the financial systems of this country. a quote that directly from the website, by the way. and that definition seems odd with its relentless rate hiking. though she viewers already know that rate hikes are thought to be the federal reserve's strongest weapon in its arsenal to battle inflation, but it is becoming untenable. the price of goods is too high for so many families in the united states. but now some interest rates, a new book by financial expert investigative journalist called normally prince says is permit inspiration, how does this unflinchingly. to this passage for the last page of the book. it reads in part, the fed and over central by max underestimation of impact on real people was one of the most tone deaf components of prominent distortion she argues that the fed and its willingness and ability to make lots of money available for so

long at such low interest rates through banks has created a distortion. wealthy people and corporations benefit directly from the feds long term willingness to keep interest rates low, which keeps money flowing to large businesses, and keeps stock prices high. why would you put your money in the bank as opposed to the stock market when interest rates are as low as they have been four years? but this does not apply to regular working people, many of whom are invested in the stock market, who depend on wages, not cheap bank loans. she calls this distortion and says it has become permanent. she basically argued our financial system has contributed to the creation and maintenance of two americas. one, made up of the mega rich, and the other made up of the never rich. i'm thrilled to be joined by nomi prins, a geopolitical financial expert and financial trust expert icing in the global market, and author of prominent distortion. thank you being with us again, no me. >> thank you ali, great to see you as well. >> it is a big important book. i might have not had a chance

to summarize it in such a short space as well as i should have. but let me start with that phrase, your title, permanent destruction. it is the title of the book. what do you mean by permanent distortion? >> so distortion, which we have significantly since the financial crisis of 2008, as you very nicely put in terms of what the fed and others have been sent by used, giving liquidity of money, flow rates, to make an -- to make it easy to the world of finance, it's become permanent in the wake of covid because the super turbocharged effect of that created even more of a distortion. and also, the idea that the financial system can rely on the fed and other central banks when they deem there is an emergency for those actors, not necessarily does that money flow into the real economy. the gap between the markets and the real economy which was distorted, has become permanently distorted. now what we are seeing, and as

you mentioned, feds are going full throttle in a different direction. and again, that's putting through economy at the expense of the markets. >> i want to dig in, or start with a passage from the first few pages of the book, in which you're right, while people in the real economy received support from the edges, the bulk of the money from central banks of government float upward into financial assets, not outward into the economy. i want to take you back to the first few months of the pandemic, where the steady move so fast, to make sure that the banks and corporations did not run out of money, could not always get alone, but the struggle, the political struggle to get regular people aid in the wake of coronavirus, shutdowns, having to stay at home, it took months of wrangling and concerns about what would happen if you give $600 to working americans and how they would spend it on crazy stuff that it was not actually important. we put regular people through the rigor. but if companies and banks the money, it can be done without any political process

whatsoever. >> that is right. the federal reserve is detached in that way from a political process. what happened in the wake of covid, with the cares act, the other acts coming through president biden's that money was yes, wrangled about in politics. it kind of went around to individuals. we focused on as a nation rather than focusing on the fact that yes, with the price of an electronic button, the fed and other central banks create money. they both doubled the size of 4.1 trillion dollars to before the pandemic, to almost nine trillion dollars in basically no time at all in the wake of the pandemic. that money flowed into stock markets. that's where we had so much of that path going upwards, that markets rebounded fabulously, as did banks and they also added capitals and everything else. we are safe even in these volatile times. reviewable don't have that cushion, they don't have that math, that money, as a result the real economy staggers, and when we have inflation, every

individual feels that pinch in their pocket way more than any corporation ever could, and they don't get that help. they don't get that piece that corporation it knows it can have if central banks decide not what they want to do. >> a very big question, takes three hours to answer, we have a couple of minutes. what are you supposed to do about this? what is the solution to this prominent distortion? how do you fix the system so real people are central to repairs that we try to do to the economy? >> it is a really big question. the issue is that money has to go to the real economy and have a more permanent place in the real economy, otherwise permanent distortion will continue to happen. what does that mean? that means more attention in the longer term project. or attention to infrastructure. the feds should dial back, stop the interest rates because they are hurting individuals and their borrowing power away more than they are hurting companies, even the markets we are withdrawing, so uncertain right now as to what the federal.

that's a problem as well. the fed should recognize that it cannot control the price of oil, it can't control the price of food. but what good can do is hurt a real person, from borrowing money or even paying off their credit cards, which they are using more abundance right now to pay for utilities and to pay for gas and to pay for food. >> nomi, thank you for being with us. the book is important and it is a good, critical look right now. it is something that is actually happening. i don't know who timed the writing and publishing of this book to be so current to this particular moment. but i appreciated it. nomi prins, an economist, author of the upcoming book, permanent destruction is, how financial markets abandoned the real economy forever. the book comes out on tuesday. while, if you are a scariest supreme court decision of your lifetime was the fall of roe v. wade, i have news for you. the trump pack will hear a case though actually up and democracy as we know it. acy as we know it. hils, which nucala helps reduce. nucala is a once-monthly add-on injection for severe eosinophilic asthma.

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is upon. it goes, ghouls, which is, we're locked. qanon, shaman's, seditious conspiracy, handmaid's tale come to life. it is scary out there. but there is something more insidious hiding in the shadows that should send a shiver down your spine. i bet you never heard of it before. it is the independent state legislator theory. sounds rather benign. but together with the supreme court's conservative super majority, it has the potential to upend our electoral system

and further destroy democracy. independent state legislator theory was once a fringe concept, but now it is at the center of the more the harper case, which we heard by the supreme court this term. the case asked whether state legislator should have exclusive and universal power to determine the outcome of federal elections in their states. citing the theory, the plaintiffs, to north carolina legislators argue that there should be no checks or balances for state legislators in elections. but in state legislators have absolute power to set election rules and to determine is disputed outcomes. but that's not really how the american election systems works, or has ever worked. our electoral system is far from perfect but it is actually a democratic system. this is deadly serious. if the supreme court were tool in favor of the north carolina legislators, it would allow elected representatives to set their time, place and manner of elections. they'll be able to redraw

districts without oversight. handpick electors and even ignore their own states voting laws and constitution's. it is quite simply a democratic disaster. the independent state legislator theory began popping up in conservative circles during the 2020 presidential election. it became the silent centerpiece of the twice engaged defeated presidents increasingly desperate attempt to overturn the election. let me tell you how it happened. in december of 2020, allies of the losing incumbent president argued to the supreme court that the theory allowed state legislators to select electors have cast votes for donald trump, even though the certified electors were lawfully bound to cast their ballot votes for joe biden, or whoever had actually won the popular presidential vote in their estate. at the time, the supreme court declined to answer the question. behind the scenes, trump and his minions were doing the dirty work themselves. trump allies were trying to convince republican state legislators to send fake slates

of trump electors to congress. electors, who contrary to the law, he stalled donald j trump as president. the plan didn't work, but at the independent state legislator theory had been in place in december of 2020, donald trump probably would have succeeded in overturning the election and been the president today. hence this little known case, more of the harper. remember this name, you will hear it a lot, it might prove to be the single most crucial case for american freedom since the nation's founding. the outcome of this case could determine the value of your vote, it is american horror story, the erosion of democracy. if that does not scare you, i don't know what will. t will roster ever created. ♪♪ it's subway's biggest refresh yet! before we begin, i'd like to thank our sponsor, liberty mutual. they customize your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need.

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don't let asthma take another breath. go triple. go trelegy. ask your doctor about trelegy today. >> for a lot of reasons, today is an extra reason for an extra cup of coffee. this shows a bit of work, i have to admit. but it is important work. before the break, excellent length by the independent state

legislator theory, center of the more of the harper supreme court case. at stake is a question of who runs he was elections, who sets election law? the plaintiffs in the case are using the independent state legislator theory to push a heavily gerrymandered congressional map in north carolina, it gives an extra advantage to republicans. this is from the north carolina superior court who first heard the case, quote, the court finds in every single one of the 52 election is decided within a six point margin, the inaction plans give republicans an outright majority in the states congressional delegation. the state house and the state senate. this is true, even when democrats win statewide by clear margins. in february, after back and forth, the north carolina supreme court struck that down and ruled it unconstitutional, which is the way it should work. but the plaintiffs took it hired, to the supreme court. and that clearly unfair map that the north carolina supreme

court called egregious and extreme, is now at the center of the more the arbery case. if the supreme court rules in favor of the plaintiffs in more of the harbor, it will affect more than one congressional map, could give state legislators full, absolute power over elections without going oversight. jordan now is dolly, senior -- host of the podcast amicus, also author of the new and very important book called lady justice, women, lot in the battle to save america. dahlia knows more about supreme court kind of stuff anybody i know, but i wonder if our camera, move your mug for a second, dahlia. i want them to see they even came with notes because that is how important and complicated this issue is. >> it is a six post it day. >> it is. i will tell our viewers about the two theories, two clauses upon which independent state legislator theory is based. number one is the elections cause, in the constitution. the times, places and matters of holding elections for senators and representatives

shall be prescribed in each state by the legislator thereof, but the congress may at anytime, by law, make or alter such regulations. that is number one. number two, is the presidential electorate clause. each state shall appoint in such manner as the legislator thereof may direct a number of electors. so the plaintiffs here are saying that this is up to us as state legislators to make the rules. the courts can't tell us what we did is wrong, unfair or egregious. >> right. that is post-it note number four. essentially there are two different provisions. and the attached to different things. one is the question of simple state congressional elections. and that is article one. the other is the electors, and as you said before the break, that is the clause that john eastman and folks like donald trump are pushing after they lost, when they pick up the phone and called brad raffensperger in georgia and said, what just make up your own set of fake electors.

just call that election null and void. >> brad raffensperger, by the way, in his reading of the law at the time that i can't do this. for instance, i talked to him. i don't know whether he would like to have gotten those votes for donald trump, i believe he voted for him, but he believed the law said he could not. >> right. and at that moment, everybody except john eastman, donald trump's lawyer believed the law said he couldn't. nobody subscribe to this. what is chilling, and i think you got this in your introduction, is in the span of two years, we've gone from an idea that is deemed crack pot, insane, and fully not rooted in text or history in the constitution to an idea that came to the court with very well funded donors who are saying that this would be a cool thing, to take all power away from state legislators, from state supreme courts and from the governor of a state, right. a lot of these are states that might have a democrat somewhere as the governor. all of those people whose power,

the state supreme court can't analyzes under state constitutional law, it's the only one who is the arbiter of this, the u.s. supreme court. so that is chilling. and it happens so quickly, and was such a power grab. as you say, it is so arcane, it's entirely possible to blink and miss it. >> in the event this happens, if the supreme court says yes you are good, you guys are right about this, the legislators how supremacy, this is not a north carolina specific thing, this could happen everywhere. and if you overlay that to the 2020 election, donald trump might be the president today? >> without a doubt. what they were trying to do in georgia they were also trying to do in pennsylvania, in arizona, with audits. what they were trying to do in wisconsin, so this was not a one-off. in georgia, we have the tape from georgia. but i think it is fair to say that if you have 30 out of the 50 states that have republican dominated legislator's, it's clear both what would have happened in 2020, and what

happened in 2024. , >> let me ask you this. it reasonable person said i voted for my state legislator, why should they not have supremacy over the elections? in doesn't the constitution say here each state shall appoint in such a matter, if the legislator thereof be direct among the electives? >> the formalist constitutional answer is the state legislator is not a free floating entity that derives its power from itself. state legislator is the creation of a state constitution, right. it is not a thing. so the idea that it then trumps the state constitution or the supreme court which is tasked with enacting the state and enforcing the state constitution is a historic and wrong. but the deeper thing is that as you noted when you read it, congress is supposed to be in check. there are state courts supposed to be in check. and in 2019 case, it posted five, the supreme court said they will get the federal courts are the gerrymandering

business, you can always go to your supreme court. >> so the analog that my viewer might use over here is that congress of the united states can pass laws, but they could be challenged at the supreme court, it is important to say that a lot of thought contort with the constitution of the united states. it is an illegal law. fix it or do something else. that's the point over here. you can't take the point away from the state constitution or the courts, to be able to say you did something wrong. >> think about the very nature of the founding documents. it rests in the ideas of checks and balances. nobody has unchecked plenary power to do whatever they want. the idea that will do with this, a state legislator, an antidote by the founders were very dubious about giving plenary power over anything, they love and reviewable, uncheck-able power. and the supreme court will then determine, without any state

intercession, whether that is fine? that is just so utterly wrong, and constitutionally wrong. and historically wrong. as you say, this is an idea which was hatched. it's cited as though it was a true thing, a reckless opinion they got two points. it's entirely fictional and calling it the independent state legislator gives it wheatland credit, >> that's the problem a benign name for something that could be dangerous and damaging for democracy. thank you for bringing the notes, it made it clear to us. we might have to have this conversation many times so folks understand, keep in mind this is a very, very important topic. dahlia lithwick is the senior editor at slate and host of the amicus podcast. the author of the truly captivating new book, lady justice. women, the law and the battle to save america. all right, up next, medical professionals are sounding the alarm that another covid surge could be on its way this winter. i will keep you and your loved ones safe in covid, and the flu. coming up next. coming up next

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researchers and you have noticed an uptick in new coronavirus cases as the weather begins to cool. as we have seen in the past, increasing coronavirus infections in europe often prompt incidents over future u.s. waves. that seems to be the case once again, but remember last month, president biden said quote, the pandemic is over? now, doctor anthony fauci, director of the national institute of allergy and

infectious diseases said the president may have been a big quote, cavalier and saying that. in fact, fauci warned the event in south carolina last week, in the more dangerous covid variant could emerge this winter. this is our third winter where we might have covid-19. we've seen the song and dance, we have tools to curb the virus this time, but only if people actually use them. according to the cdc, covid worcester rates are off to a slower start compared to previous covid vaccine campaigns. let's talk about this, with dr. peter cortez. doctor, you are someone we've been talking to a for a very long time. he's the co-director of the center for vaccine development at texas children's hospital. but dina the national school of tropical medicine at baylor college of medicine, him in his colleagues were nominated for the nobel peace prize for their work to develop and distribute a low-cost covid-19 vaccine, to people of the world, without patent limitation. peter, good to see you on one hand, why are we still talking?

why are you and i still talking? i would love to have a dinner with you in texas, but why are we still on tv, talking about covid in october, 2022? >> ali, you are right what you start to see me, coming back on the cable news channels, it's usually about this news. here's the situation, the number of cases certainly will be going down. soon, we will possibly reach one of our best points in the pandemic in terms of numbers of cases. but as you rightly have pointed out, what goes on in western europe, the uk and france is often a harbinger of what will happen here, as numbers are going up. what is less clear is that the numbers are going up in france and the uk, not because of any one particular variant that we can identify. that usually been the case, we have the delta variant, the omicron variant. in this case it seems to be a mixture of ba.5 which has been circulating, and a hodgepodge of alphabet soup derivatives.

i call them the scrabble variants, they all use high value letters in's gravel, ex vt, the key one. so we will start to see the same uptick in a number of cases in the u.s.. we should plan as we head into the winter, cases will go up. but here's the most important take home message. get the bivalent booster. because that bivalent booster not only has mrna from the original strain, but also to be a prime, the one that has spilled over to this brand-new alphabet soup, scrabble variants popping up. that's the message we are trying to hit home, as all americans need to get that bivalent booster, to do something. >> could you tell me for our viewers who do not know, or those who have not had their first cup of coffee that would buy violent means? >> sorry. bivalent means, all the other covid vaccines we have gotten as americans, it is all

directed against the original lineage that came out of central china. but now there are two mrna's, and this new booster, one including the original, and i know one including the ba.5, currently circulating. we think it might be some cross protection against the others as well. >> so if you are signing up for a booster shot today, you look at something? moderna has one, pfizer has one, most likely you will get a bivalent vaccine? you don't have to ask anybody specifically about that, do you? >> you might want to check with your pharmacist. but if you are 12 and up, you should get a bivalent booster. >> are you worried that because joe biden has said we are past this, people just don't care about it the way they do? but i got my first vaccine, i was pressing refresh, refresh, refresh on the ways that you can get a schedule, a vaccine schedule. i don't hear people talking about it the same way, although i do hear about people getting covid now at a rate i have not

been familiar with for a while. in new york, i am see masks again in a way i have not seen in several months. >> well the worry is people will not take it seriously, and therefore not get this bivalent booster, they will not be caught flat-footed if we see a big rise, so that is the message, the numbers are going back up again in europe. this is not the time to be spiking the ball at the 20 yard line. basically it is what you are doing by saying the pandemic is over. it is not, the other couple of other things, ali, what happening that our kids are not getting boosted. very low rates, only about 30% of the 5 to 11-year-olds, and a lot of variation on the country that might have that right, and where i am, in the southern part of the u.s., there a few under five years old or getting the vaccination. one last thing i have been discussing with the white house about, very few americans over the age of 60 who have breakthrough infections get paxlovid.

as a consequence, they are unnecessarily dying. so, they're not prescribing paxlovid as aggressively as they peter, did. thank you for being with us again. we always appreciate it. peter motels is a co director for the center for vaccine development, the texas children's hospital. he's the author of the important book, preventing the next pandemic. vaccine diplomacy in a time of anti-science. straight ahead, politics backed edition of velshi. a slew of election deniers are likely to be elected in the upcoming midterms. will november be the death of american democracy? don't tweet me to tell me i'm exaggerating the making stuff up, okay? the stuff is really serious. if it happens, will be a little upset about it after november. -- michael cohen weighs in on the slew of investigations into his former boss, including brand-new reporting overnight from the new york times. it's phil -- know that our velshi begins right now. right now.