interviewing mark hamel there. i could see the excitement on your face. well done, my friend. >> that was a great moment. >> yes, i can tell. all right. coming up tonight on ayman, republicans win at all costs campaign. it goes beyond supporting terrible candidates. it could actually tear our democracy apart. and then, the shameful gop attempts to take credit for one of president biden's biggest achievements. and the grass is greener. the historic presidential announcement on marijuana that is changing thousands of lives for the better. i'm ayman mohyeldin, let's get started. all right, tonight we want to begin with a lesson. bear with me for a second because herschel walker, for all of his faults, as a senate candidate in georgia, he's actually taught us something important. i know it's hard to believe we could learn anything from

herschel walker at this point. but he has helped us distill a trend growing clear for decades among the gop. for republicans winning is the only thing. that's about blunts, unambiguous message conservatives have conveyed to the american people this week as they closed ranks i'm around a man whose alleged life choices so thoroughly and fundamentally contradict the values they purport to stand for, it actually boggles the mind. the most recent development, the new york times reporting that the same woman who alleged herschel walker paid for her abortion in 2009 also alleged that walker urged her to terminate a second pregnancy two years ago, or two years later, excuse me. herschel walker has denied those allegations, saying he has never paid for or pressured a woman to have an abortion. this october surprise, which at one point would have ended other candidates chances, just didn't seem to matter to the right wing. we are full speed ahead in

georgia, said the president of mitch mcconnell's senate leadership fund super pac. we have seen this movie before, said christian coalition leader ralph reid. this goes beyond hypocrisy. it wouldn't be so outrageous if these people were just hypocrites. it's just that these people have completely skewed their supposed morals and all their values all in an effort to simply win and control power. i want you to listen to far-right antiabortion pundit dana lash this week. >> so, does this change anything? i mean, do you want my opinion? you're listening. not a damn thing. so i don't care of herschel walker paid to abort endangered baby eagles, i want control of the senate. >> the virtues of the gop in 2022. look, back in 1992, president george h. w. bush, not knowing

the price of a gallon of milk, almost ended his reelection campaign. some republicans literally consider it disqualifying. it's almost charming in retrospect, isn't it? at one time the grand old party had some -- some -- standards. but it's more than electing bad candidates because they are republicans. what's even more frightening than an entire party losing their moral compass is that that same party is now okay with rigging elections and threatening election workers and voters all in the name of winning. the majority of republican nominees on the ballot this november for the house, the senate, and key state white offices, 299 in all, have denied or questioned the outcome of the last presidential election. as tim alberta writes in the atlantic, the great threat is no longer machines malfunctioning or ballots being spoiled. it is the actual theft of an election. that is where we are in america today. and just last night, we heard

the clearest threat yet on this front during a trump rally. jim marchant, the republican candidate for secretary of state in nevada, openly, in front of the world to see, admitting that he wanted to help steal the election for donald trump. >> president trump and i lost an election in 2020 because of a rigged election. when my coalition of secretary of state candidates around the country get elected, we are going to fix the whole country. president trump is going to be president again in 2024. >> substitute the word fix for rigged, because that is what he's going to do if he gets in power. republicans will now do anything to win, even kill our democracy. let's get into all this with my -- former chief strategist for the bush cheney 2004 presidential campaign. he's an msnbc political analyst. maria, president co of voter

latino, and an msnbc contributor. johnson, stand up comedian and writer on the daily show with trevor noah. it's great to have all three of you with us. matthew, i would like to start with you. talk to me about this a win at all costs approach to the candidates. am i wrong in my sussman that republicans will do anything to win? bush was lambasted for not knowing the price of milk. and now you have evangelicals who are all in on herschel walker despite these abortion allegations. >> you are not wrong. i mean, i think it's become a complete and justify the means party. in the end is hold power and the means are whatever it takes, and no matter the corruption of a candidate, no matter the eighth incompetence of the candidate, no matter the craziness of a candidate. if the past the power goes through that crazy candidate, or that corrupt candidate, that's okay. it seems acceptable. there is the unicorns out they are speaking out against it, like liz cheney and a couple others. but this is a wave of the

republican party who has decided that power means everything. as you were leading up to this, i was thinking it wasn't too long ago that william bennett, a staunch republican -- wrote a book called the book of virtues. the book of virtues. which they have completely abandoned all those virtues of integrity and honesty and caring and compassion, all of those things. and they have decided the ends completely justify the means. >> maria, nbc news has confirmed that tom cotton, rick scott, scott, of course, being notably the chair of the senate republican arm, they are going to campaign with herschel walker this week. can you explain this continued support? i mean, i understand if you want herschel awkward to win but you don't want to be so associated with him you just don't say anything. you say, look, he's running his race, i'm doing my thing down here in florida or arkansas, and i'm not going to lend my

name or credibility to this guy. but the fact that they are going this week with all the revelations last week, to go and campaign and stand next to him, that's got to say something. >> it says that they are the party of trump. none of them stood up when trump was accused of many similar things, even this insurrection we had on january 6th. that is the danger we are in. we have a party that is no longer playing in the democratic side blocks. i mean the little democracy, not the party. as a result, we are seeing the erosion of democratic norms coming from within a party and in their lies the rocked. we need more people like liz cheney speaking on the behalf of republicans because there are moderate republicans and independents who recognize what the republican party is now standing for. if, not what we are going to see is, sadly, a demise that's gonna be -- and none of us gonna for that. i often say that if you get asked any immigrant what a

deteriorating democracy looks like, they will say, that's what we fled and that's what we are starting to witness here. it's one of the reasons why they need to make sure that the substantive stuff of the january six committee actually sticks. we need merrick garland to come out and actually try trump with all the issues he announced so far. otherwise, -- >> josh, what do you think democrats should do here? what is the page, if you will, that they can use from the gop playbook on this? >> i, mean i don't know so much about a page specifically. just outright lies have to start mattering again. it's one thing if someone lies. it's another thing if a lie leads to ally leads to ally. we then he said, we -- herschel walker, i'll give it to him, he's one of the worst liars i've ever watched in politics. this is like out of a movie. he says i don't know who this

is. then it's like, it's actually the mother of one of your children. i don't know that maybe -- >> that's like a comedy sketch. that is as funny -- i know it's a serious subject, but the fact that, as you are saying, the fact that he would turn around and be like, well, it's actually one of the mothers of one of your kids, allegedly. >> my man, you could not know this person more. you know them biblically. there is no other way that you could know them more than the fact that they are the mother of your other kids. the fact that these lies topple on top of each other and still don't seem to matter at all, it's like someone, no matter who you are, i don't care who you vote for, no one who lies to you all the time will start telling you the truth when they are in power. that's just not gonna happen. that's not how people work. that's not how system works. for instance, when i was in high school, i wanted to be treasury. but i can't count. i'm not good at it. i'm just not. i was not gonna be able to matt -- magically count as long as -- they made the right decision,

they picked somebody else. >> yeah, i think exhibit a would be donald trump. that guy lied his way through life and then when he got into office, nothing changed about what he was doing. matthew, let's talk about the election rigging and denying. this, obviously, is an existential threat to our democracy, to our country. this is far worse and then just supporting a bad candidate. this is potentially killing our democracy. >> yeah, it's a lethal to our democracy. if this is allowed to occur, we don't have a democracy anymore. if these people win secretary of state and attorney general and governor, in some instances, like pennsylvania, who gets to appoint a secretary of state, we don't have a democracy. if they can decide what the will of the people's no matter what the voters say in the course of this. i think it's incredible, incredibly relevant fluttery, this is, in where we are today. to me, this isn't fundamentally about what trump says on the lies he tells, and the crazy herschel walker, all of which is bad. it's about what it reveals about the republicans who vote

in the republican party. donald trump is the great reveal are. he's not the great cause or. he's the great reveal or about what has become of the republican party. to me, too often on our news coverage, we focus like in the nfl on the running backs and on the quarterbacks. but who's going to protect the democracy are the secretary of state's -- the secretary of state's and the attorney generals. they are like the left tackles of democracy. they protect the blind side of our democracy. without them, there is no way we can win. and there is no way we have a sustained democracy even though this experiment has lasted 240 plus years, we don't have a democracy anymore if the will of the people doesn't matter. >> maria, really quickly, have you ever -- do you remember or recall a time when the government has faced -- our democracy has faced such a double threat? you have a very dangerous supreme court decisions pending. we've talked about them on the show.

that threatens our democracy. then you have candidates that are election denying, election rigging candidates. it's like we are being -- from both ends. >> you are seeing a thread strategy of the last 45 years of the republican party to erode norms -- the fact that we have a supreme court made up as it, is it didn't happen overnight. the fact that we have election deniers now running for office didn't happen overnight. i often joke, i'm on this task force called the election crisis task force, so nobody else has to be. basically, all we do is look at the erosion of our democratic norms. but here is the thing, it was for the very first time the carter center came in ended electric pole watching in the united states for the first time in their 30-year history in 2020. -- unless the american people sit up and say, and demand fair and free elections, and that means, yes, a voting, but it also means voting for the right people, it also means protesting, and then they won't

find a backwater to do the right thing. >> we've got a lot more to discuss ahead. republicans we going talk of civil war. first, richard louis is here with the headlines. hey, richer. >> good to see. russian pledges vladimir putin claiming the explosion that damaged a huge bridge linking russia in crimea was eight, quote, terrorist attack orchestrated by ukraine special services. ukrainian president advisor said putin's allegations were too cynical even for russia. no one has claimed responsibility for saturday's attack. julia, now downgraded to a tropical storm as it moves across central america. the storm made landfall sunday morning in nicaragua. dumping heavy rains that had the potential of causing floods and mudslides. authorities are scrambling to find a toddler last seen wednesday morning at his home in savannah, georgia. police say they are working 18 to 20 hours a day in the hopes of finding 20-month-old quinton simon alive. the fbi has also assisting in that. more ayman with a minimal hygiene after this break.

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after the actual civil war, a civil war references are becoming common on the far right. this week, the new york times reported the mentions of the word civil war shot up by 3000% in the hours after the fbi search of trump's florida home. 3000%! this idea of civil war once discussed on the political

periphery has now migrated closer to the mainstream. according to david graham in the atlantic, this mainstreaming can be explained in part by growing fondness for the confederacy. well beyond the traditional borders of the south, at least. it may not come as a surprise after trump, in 2017, lamented the removal of confederate statues in the wake of the charlottesville rally of white supremacists. graham writes, support for confederate symbols and monuments now exist across the country, following lines of race, religion, and education rather than geography. this is one of many ways in which the south is no longer simply a region, but rather a certain version of it has become an identity shared among white, rural conservative americans from coast to coast. more than any affinity for the confederacy, this talk of civil war seems to be shared by those who embrace and promote a specific type of political violence. this week, federal prosecutors showed a jury in washington and

encrypted message from stewart rhodes, the founder of the oath keepers, which is an armed extremist group. he sent this to his lieutenants two days after the 2020 presidential election saying, in part, quote, we are getting through this without a civil war. rhodes is the government's key target in the massive and historic capital right prosecution that has resulted in more than 870 arrests. roads and for their alleged oath keepers are the first january six defendants to stand trial for seditious conspiracy. a rare civil war era charge that can call for up to 20 years behind bars. let's bring in our sunday night panel back into the conversation. matthew, you reaction to this growing embrace of civil war rhetoric among the right? it seems they are only seeing the solution in this country through either complete control f power or civil war. >> well, i think we've also seen it reflected in how they've military these militias

that have shown. at one tried to kidnap the governor of michigan. they show up with guns, secretary of state's houses, threatening them with guns. the biggest threat in america today is not al-qaeda or radical islamic, or something internationally, it's white nationalism, which is represented by this movement, with the confederate flag in america. white nationalism is the greatest violent threat in america today. this concerns me because there is 400 million guns in america today. 400 million guns. and there is many, many people, about eight or 10% of the population in the united states, that each have more than 40 guns. each person has more than 40 guns. i think it's an incredibly -- threat. i'm hoping the fbi, which i think it has, has made this threat put higher on their list. but we should be the time, the justice department and all that to the threat that is not only in words people are sharing on

these sites or social media, but actions actually following that we've seen in the course of this. it's incredibly concerning. i don't think we are going to end up in a civil war. but i wouldn't be surprised if we are faced with the threat of roving militias, which happened in the aftermath of the civil war, what we called the ku klux klan in the south. now the ku klux klan in the south has expanded into every other state, western states, midwestern states, northeastern states. i don't think it's a formal civil war with battlefields. but we could certainly face armed militias around the country, which we have already seen. >> maria, how do we, as a society, you know, combat this civil war talk? can we at this? point >> i think it's a recognition. under president obama, they recognized his administration that it was white supremacists within the united states were our biggest threat. as a result, they created inter agency collaboration's.

come in donald trump and he dismantled the inter agency cooperations because it almost seemed like he didn't care. and this is a result of that. how do you build a system so that -- how do you do the inter agency collaboration, tracking militias. when they actually do something that is about our democracy, -- that's what we are starting to see with some of the results, individuals that actually participated in the january 6th hearings. then we also have to make sure that we are protecting the communities they are harming, that they are targeting. these roving militias matthew was talking about exist right now on the border, throughout arizona, throughout texas. you talk to marginalized latinos who have been on the ground, and they feel the brunt of it. we have to make sure that we are throwing -- actually creating spaces for people who are taking, basically becoming vigilantes

across the border because they are saying individuals appear undocumented are all the sudden harming the country, actually get the line force on them so they diminish it. at the same time, have it, have the actual systems in place to prevent this from growing. this idea of a civil war i think it's nonsense. i do think it is -- it creates a difficulty for people in communities of color and particular, where they feel unsafe because they have a target on their backs simply for being a person of color in this country. >> josh, what do you make of how conservatives across america seemed to embrace confederate symbols? how much of this is because trump and the gop refused to denounce them, backlash in our society toward symbols of hate that we're all around our country? >> i think the people mostly just like folks. i think they see this support and then they go with it. i also think that like, just like everyone else on the panel, i'm not overly concerned about an actual civil war with battlefields or anything like

that, especially because these are the same people that want to ban the books about the civil war. they won't even be able to read up on their history or learn from mistakes. they've got to start from scratch. they won't see the spoiler alert that the civil war was lost by the south and by the people who support the confederate side. it's all a bit as concerning as it is as it is silly to embrace. because so much of what these people are worried about, it all comes back to following -- i mean, essentially the money in the pockets of the people that pretend to be on their side and then shore off all of the ideas of blame or an idea of how to fix the problem in immigrants, and people taking jobs, when we know automation is coming. things that are just lies, you know? >> yeah, no. definitely, i think that lies are -- we have a misinformation

pandemic in this country, given the way lies are spreading. panel, stick around. we've got a lot more to discuss. up next, republicans, you may be shocked to hear this, they are trying to take credit for legislation that democrats passed. we will tell you about that. about that. whenever heartburn strikes get fast relief with tums. it's time to love food back. ♪ tum tum tum tum tums ♪ bipolar depression. it made me feel trapped in a fog. this is art inspired by real stories of bipolar depression. i just couldn't find my way out of it. the lows of bipolar depression can take you to a dark place. latuda could make a real difference in your symptoms. latuda was proven to significantly reduce bipolar depression symptoms. and in clinical studies, had no substantial impact on weight. this is where i want to be. call your doctor about sudden behavior changes or suicidal thoughts. antidepressants can increase these in children and young adults. elderly dementia patients have increased risk of death or stroke. report fever, confusion, stiff or uncontrollable muscle movements,

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midterms. republicans finally realized it's not smart to campaign against president biden's popular policies. this week, reading from his cnn report, the president called out members of the gop who voted against the infrastructure bill and then had the audacity for trying to take credit for it. >> we'll go down the list. kentucky representative andy barr, the biggest socialist agenda. three different projects he wants. studying the importance of safety and growth in his district. rand paul, i can go down the list. look it up. >> i'm back with my sunday

night panel to discuss this. josh, are you surprised? can you really be surprised? republicans taking credit for something they voted against and then having the audacity to ask for money from the very legislation they opposed. >> no, man. this is a thing that happens sometimes. i have been guilty as well, okay? and there've been times where i've been at maybe a wedding, right? i forgot to get a gift, i see a gift already there but there is no name tag. i'm like, that works for me, all right? i love you guys. whatever is in there is a symbol of my love, okay? i think that's just part of how people are going to try to work politics or lean on peoples short memories. they're going to try to lean on people being not read up on what exactly went down. they know the general public isn't looking at voting records for every candidate or every city senator. they just lean into it, you

know? >> a maria, why are democrats making a bigger deal about this? why is it we are finding out about this from a campaign stop, if you will, not a campaign stop, but it was during an event in upstate new york, i believe, and the president was promoting his legislative agenda. but you are hearing about it from the president and not a full court press from the democrats to shame these republicans who, for months, talked down about the legislation, try to block it, said it was bad for our country. and then you find out about it this way. >> i mean, if i were the democrats, i would be fanning out in every congressional district. i would bring the empty chair of the person who did not vote for it and say we are opening up a cutting ribbon for the road that so-and-so did not actually vote for. just shame them. this is the challenge that democrats are having. they do their conversations right now on the national level. but oftentimes the people that need to hear it or locally. they need to make sure the local press is covering it as much as possible.

the best way to do it is by shaming them with that ribbon cutting ceremony, we can take that on the road, i think it would work. >> sign me up. i would definitely go to these districts and happily put all the pictures of the republicans that voted against this legislation wherever i need to. >> do the comedic take with a big red chair, the big red bow. we can go from there. >> i love. it let me pivot to another thing, matthew, this week, that got a lot of headlines and a lot of praise. president biden's decision on marijuana pardoning thousands of people convicted of marijuana position at the federal level and asking governors to take some similar action at the state level. talk to me about the significance of it. does it go far enough? shouldn't have gone further? >> i think joe biden took it as far as he can take it as president of the united states without congressional action on it, where we could actually decriminalize marijuana in this. i mean, this has been so long in coming. when a supermajority of country

completely supports this. when you look at the data in all this, alcohol, which is people are consuming a lot of it today as they were watching nfl games, alcohol is by all of that is 100 times more dangerous than marijuana. the public recognizes that now. this is another one of those issues that the public is vastly undecided, the democrats in this opposed to most republicans in the course of this. the idea -- people or the weekend said, well, mayor one at, we shouldn't be doing this. it's a gateway drug, it's a gateway drug. first, all science says that's not true. second, you know with the two biggest gateway drugs are that our -- scientists focus on, which is nicotine, and alcohol. i don't see a single republican talking about what we should do about nicotine and alcohol. it's a long time incoming. i'm glad the president did it. i hope congress will take action on this. it's about time we got to this. the country is way further

ahead than our leaders on this issue. >> josh, your final thought on this? it affects communities, marginalized communities. how do you think this will be received? and more importantly, should the president have gone further? >> i mean, all i can say is that -- this is gonna sound pessimistic, all right? but thank goodness for midterms and scandals. they get more done than anything else you can imagine. i think just like matt was saying, this has been a long time coming. it's always a nice bow right before the midterms to be like, hey, remember that thing that i did, that i just did, you know? it's one of those things that is slowly moving. to matthew's point, the president -- as much as the president can do outside of full-on congressional sweep and a bill or something. i don't know. i think this is great. it just alleviates. we know now that a lot of the illegal status of marijuana was

due to corruption. it slowed down a lot of the testing and research that could go to be helping people using marijuana. honestly, i've lived, i've had neighbors, i've had neighbors that smoked a lot of weed, i've had neighbors that were on other schedule one drug's. and the other neighbors another schedule when drugs were much harder to be around, all right? the weed thing, it's a nothing thing. >> yeah. josh johnson, maria, matthew, it was great talking to you guys. greatly appreciate it. thank you so much for joining us this hour. up next, we are going to switch our attention to overseas. the protests in iran are reverberating around the world. somehow and for some reason, the international community has remained rather quiet. why? the protests in iran that are sparking what some are calling a revolution. but why aren't they getting the attention they deserve? we are going to expel. pel. makes trading easier. with its customizable options chain,

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protests in iran sparked by the death of 22 year old mahsa amini have now entered their fourth straight weekend of the movement has proved to be more durable and lasting than most previous challenges to the leaders. it could pose a continuing threat to the regime. [noise] now, that's a group of iranian schoolgirls chasing a man out of their schoolyard this week while shouting shameless. you will notice most of the girls aren't wearing their mandatory job. they are not alone. the across for, and women and young girls defying their nations islamic dress code and even burning their head scarfs. protesting the death of mahsa amini and others. and now also, calling for a change in government. beyond iran's borders, women around the world are cutting their hair off in solidarity, including actors and oscar winners. as robin wright put it in the new yorker, this may well be

the first time in history that women have been both the spark and engine for an attempted counter-revolution. but while this ground up a response from women has been loud and in-unifying inside iran, the response from most international leaders has been shockingly quiet. the u.s. and canada have sanctioned iranian officials. president biden has said he remains, quote, gravely concerned about the iranian regime's crackdown on protesters. the european union has let yet to levy sanctions against iran, and is not can -- on october 17th. the disconnect between the iranian people and world leaders is remarkable, even more when you consider the rarity of what we are seeing unfold in iran. just this, week the norway-based group iranian human rights reported at least 185 people, including at least 19 children, have been killed so far in these protests. how many more men, how many more women, how many more children, will have to put their lives on the line for

world leaders to condemn and take serious actions against the iranian government? joining me now is -- the author of a beginners guide to america for the immigrants. great to have you with us. thank you so much for coming in. >> thank you so much for having me and for that wonderful introduction. >> thank. you i was drawn to an article you wrote in the atlantic. i want to read a part of it. you write in it, it was titled the bonfire of the head scarves. you say no one in iran today's setting fire to effigies of uncle sam or the u.s. flag. instead, women are burning their head scarves in the street on bonfires that men light for them. they don't object to the hijab itself. they objected not having the right to choose to whether to wear it. talk to me about what you mean by that? >> one of the difficulties we've had, especially in the west, obviously, is to have an intelligent conversation about the hijab. because we who live under authoritarian rules are forced

to wear the hijab, as i was, when i was a high school suit. and here, in the west, you know, you have the anxiety that people who wear the hijab might be discriminated against. so to speak up about the hijab and the conditions under which we had to live here in the west has been incredibly difficult. because you don't find sympathetic ear. what this movement inside iran has done is to create a consciousness among westerners especially that, for the first time, i would say, has convinced everyone that in this conversation needs to be sophisticated, it needs to be nuanced. that there is more than one hijab, depending on where you wear it, and depending on whether it's a democratic context or an authoritarian context. i would say, this is a huge leap. not just for iranians, not just

for iranian women. but for a feminist conversation throughout the world. >> as i mentioned, these protests are now in their fourth week. that's remarkable. just the ability that is being sustained so much. i think it talks to the frustrations of the iranian people. it has been led by women and young women and teenagers. what is the significance of that? the fact that this is an organic movement, that it seems to be now -- at one point it was led by women, perhaps now a multi generational, right -- >> absolutely. let me give you the good news. i have never seen such a solidarity across iran between different ethnicities. you, know you are from the region, you know. kurds, as a freeze, baloch is, are united. for the past many years, everyone has been worried about

the separatist movements within the states. not anymore. at this particular moment, everybody is chanting the same slogan. women, life, liberty. they are all united in the same cause. that's something we had not seen before. all young, across social classes, everybody is out on the streets. there seems to be a unifying message in which people are saying together that they want the regime to go. it addresses everybody from the founder of the islamic republic, which was -- , to the kermit supreme leader. there is new conversation about reform. they are done. >> let me ask you about something was talking about. the reaction of the international community. not just to make it sound that they are not doing enough, it's also what can they do? what can the international community do? iran is heavily sanctioned, the sanctions have been criticized

because they also weaken the iranian people, or certainly make it harder for them. what do you think the international community should be doing now beyond the sanctions? >> i can tell you about a single example which -- brought the international community together. in 1997, in the aftermath of a court case in berlin, germany, the trial ultimately led to the implication of the top iranian leadership in an assassination that had taken place in berlin, germany, by the iranian agency in 1992. as a result of that court judgment, all of the eu nations withdrew ambassadors from europe in april of 1997. that delivered a huge blow to the iranian regime that year. it is time to bring back that

resolute unity on the part of the west. it's time to do that again. we've done it before. it was incredibly effective. the regime ceased to assassinate the dissidents outside iran as a result of that for, you know, at least a decade. i think, now they are out on the streets killing people, we should try that again. >> i know this is a very complex conversation. we look forward to speaking to you again. obviously, this will be something in the headlines for the days and weeks ahead. thank you so much for coming. i appreciate it. >> thank. you >> up next, president obama 's former chief speech writer, cody keenan, joins us live. nan, joins us live dney disease. they're the top two causes of ckd. ckd usually starts with no symptoms. so you can have it and not know it. to find out, check the kidney numbers from your lab tests. ♪far-xi-ga♪ if you have chronic kidney disease, farxiga can help slow its progression. farxiga can cause serious side effects including dehydration,

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polls are tightening and critical states like pennsylvania and wisconsin. one of these reasons, republicans have ramped up their negative attacks, hitting democrats on issues like crime and inflation. in a moment, i will speak with the former chief speech writer for president obama, cody keenan, on his messaging advice for democrats in the final days of this election cycle. before, that we are going to discuss cody's new book, grace. president obama and ten days in the battle for america. which focuses on ten days in 2015 that forever changed our country. cody keenan joins us now. cody, it's great to see you. thanks for coming on. tell us about these ten days and their importance, and the importance they had on america as well. >> thanks, eamonn. everybody remembers the events of these ten days, not

necessarily that they were all in the state of ten days. the racist terror attack at charleston, when white supremacist -- obama -- and then they unfolded through the -- on behalf of the victims families. they forgave the killer. that inspired president obama to go give the amazing grace eulogy. at the same time, we were preparing, my team and i, all these pitches for whether the supreme court would uphold marriage equality, whether or not the supreme court would uphold obamacare. in these ten days, all these questions about america, who we are, what we believe in, what we stand up for, all came to a head at the same time. >> you write that the famous amazing grace moment with president obama saying during the funeral service for one of the charleston church suiting victims almost in happen. how did that come to be? >> he and i had written so many eulogies after mass shootings at that point. the origin of him not wanting to do it first went back to 2013, republicans in the senate back --

to vote on background checks. this was after the school shooting in utah, six educators. republicans blocked that vote with the parents of those gates looking on from the gallery. it's about as cynical as it if ever seen the president. he said, you know, the next time this happens, i don't -- i want to speak. if organized is side as a country that we want to anything about this, i don't want to perpetuate the cycle of giving a eulogy and letting us move on. as the week unfolded and those families forgave the killer, in that extraordinary act of grace, he ultimately decided, you know what? that's what i want to speak about. i want to go down there, have this families. i want to talk about grace. how it can help us -- get people the chance to change. >> it's undeniable that president obama is perhaps one of the greatest orators of our lifetime. he is certainly up there among the best speakers in american political history. have you, or how have you, seen the president evolve as a speaker since he left office? not only how he speaks but what he chooses to speak about. >> sure.

he lays out a marker. i stayed with him for four years after the white house. he lays out a marker early that he will always speak up -- the things we care about as americans, when they are at stake. -- i don't know his plans for the midterms. i assume you will hear from him in some way. but he has been choosy with what he goes out to speak. especially now, looking for the -- >> like i said, you know a thing or two about communicating. we now realize how important it is for our leaders to communicate clearly and effectively. the important things our country faces. i wanted to get your thoughts on that. how do you communicate? how do you right for a democratic candidate ahead of the midterms in his final stretch of the 30 days, when everything you are seeing happening across the country, how do you crystalize a clear message to the american voters about what's at stake? >> it's always different in the midterms. it's just called the midterms.

i remember, in 2010, our first midterms, we knew we were in for a rough ride. the economy was still hovering near 10% unemployment. no matter what, it would be a referendum about president obama. this year, president biden has done something different. he's been able to make it a choice election. it helps that president trump has inserted himself at every step. he's given candidates across the country -- the chance to say, there are significant things about democracy at stake. you've got to decide who is a deciding for us? is it the people trying to criminalize abortion or were trying to overturn the last election, promising to overturn the next, pledging violence in the streets if they don't get their way. or is it democrats? who've been trying to lower prescription drug costs, lower energy costs, create jobs -- let people decide want to start a family. let people decide they can marry whoever they love. it's hard to make that message statement breakthrough when republicans are gonna do the same thing they do every two years, which is run on crime and immigration and try to scare the heck out of everybody. these midterms are critical.

i want people to think back to 2014, when democrats lost in the senate. that's what freed mitch mcconnell to take unprecedented steps of denying president obama a supreme court appointee. and then we got to -- that's how you got the dobbs decision overturning roe. and these midterms are critically important. i'll tell you, some of my favorite feedback to this book so far, one people message me and say, it got me so fired up that i signed up to go knock on some door. no speech, no book is going to change everything or make everything better. if you can inspire some people to get out there and fight for this democracy, nothing can be more important. >> final thought, just because you had such incredible excess, and you think a president needs to be a compelling speaker to be an effective leader? >> i think it helps. i don't think it's necessary. i think that's actually something all of us need to keep in mind. we are not always going to have inspirational leaders. we are not always going to have

people who can go out and give the soaring speech. sometimes, you just get people who like doing the work and try to move the ball forward every day on democracy. that is just as important. we should not need leaders to inspire. us it's nice when you get that. we all need to dive in and show up and protect the democracy at every step. >> couldn't agree with you more on that. congrats on the book. the book is grace, president obama and ten days in the battle for america. cody keenan, greatly appreciated this conversation. extremely fascinating. >> thanks. >> thank you for making time for us. make sure to catch ayman back here on msnbc saturdays at, eight saturdays at nine. -- the final episode of the four part series model america. the last episode is red, officer stands trial, 30 years later the teaneck community still struggles to heal from phillips -- 10 pm eastern here msnbc. until we meet again. i'm ayman mohyeldin in new york. have a good night.

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: emotions are running high in the normally quiet suburban town of teaneck, new jersey, tonight after a teenager was shot to death by police. man: they killed that boy in cold-blooded murder. it don't make no sense. (music) reporter: we expect to go live into that courtroom for the trial of new jersey versus police officer gary spath. mike: it is extremely rare for police officers to be put on trial. this was a police officer who claimed he was doing his duty. and in the course of doing his duty,