he agreed with a lot of the senators and lawmakers saying we have to re-evaluate the united states relationship with saudi arabia. very strong words from the president, and he reiterated his point he thinks there should be consequences for them in light of the oil cuts they've announced, and he wouldn't specify which consequences but i do think that's something he's going to be talking to a lot of members of congress about. >> the frustration from the white house towards the reality that is evident but remains to be seen what actually re-evaluating that relationship with saudi arabia means. we know how important saudi arabia is like it or not, to the global economy. thank you, as always for joining us and thanks to all of you for getting up "way too early" for us on this wednesday morning. "morning joe" starts right now. i've been telling this little story about this bull out in the field with six cows, and three of them are pregnant. so you know you got something going on.

♪♪ ♪♪ yeah. >> okay. >> and -- >> what they don't tell is -- the rest of this clip, which we got to play in full. >> that happened yesterday. that wasn't, like from years ago. >> this was their cleanup. the story was, a bull wanted to have sex with three cows. gets the three cows pregnant. >> i don't want to hear this, no. >> and saw three other cows over the fence and wanted to get those cows pregnant so much that he went over barbed wire. >> are you okay? >> to get to the other cows. >> is this really what happened or are you making this up? >> sweetheart? >> yeah? >> i didn't tell the story. >> uh-huh. >> about a bull wanting to get six cows pregnant. >> there's no way herschel walker would tell that story at this moment.

>> these people come to georgia. >> yeah. >> to help him get out of a scandal where he got a lot of people pregnant. lied about it. didn't want to -- so he literally said that yesterday, katty kay, on the campaign trail in georgia, and there was tom cotton and i guess rick scott was there, and they just sat there -- well, i want to tell a little story and started laughing. to be really honest with you, the story didn't make any sense anyway. all he did basically ramble on about -- >> pregnancy. >> how he wanted to get six cows pregnant, and standing there saying, you can tell by the look on his face. wants to be anywhere else right now but he stays. but he stays, tom cotton, and he doesn't say, this is not okay. >> what it gets to, really, is, willie, gets to the fact that, again, this guy is so ill equipped to be running for anything, as his -- his people -- >> at this point is he making

fun of everybody? is herschel walker making fun of tom cot jn he's winning it. >> the probable with her hol walker, he's too ironic. it's too ironic. got to be ironic. willie, it was -- it -- was -- bizarre! >> help, willie. >> he's in trouble. this would be like if fetterman decided to tell a joke about a person who had a health condition. that -- that stopped him from being an effective fireman or something like that. he ran right to the scandal and then told a story that made absolutely no sense. >> yeah. i wonder if anyone thought that through. he said, i've been telling this story. like something he already said a few times so i guess he's well aware of the moral. said quote of those pregnant cows "you know he's got something gone on" talking about

the bull, because he has a lot of women pregnant around him. herschel being herschel. >> when he said that, willie, he laughed? >> yes! >> he's got a lot going on, ha, ha, started laughing and in the crowd, start laughing, too, they're conditioned. i'm like, wait. they're laughing? what? what? i'm sorry. i didn't mean to interrupt you, just thought it was fascinating. >> you're right. laugh ares and cheers in the crowd. we give that the sort of curve your enthusiasm larry david treatment. here's, in its fullness, what herschel walker said yesterday. >> i want to see. >> over his right shoulder senator tom cotton over left shoulder national committee chair rick scott, parachuted in to help save herschel walker in trying to win that seat. >> and they've been saying something in bed or somewhere else and i'm here to tell you it's not. i've been telling this little

story about this bull out in the field with six cows. and three of them are pregnant. so you know you got something going on. but all he care about is getting his nose against the fence looking at three other cows that didn't belong to him. now all he had to do is eat grass but, no, no, no. they thought something was better somewhere else. so he decided i want to get over there. so one day he imagined that fence up and said, i think i can jump this. so they came when he got back and he got backing and as he took off running he dove over that fence and barely got up under the bottom, but as he made it over on the other side he shook it off and got oh excited about it and he ran to the top of that hill, but when he got up there he realized they were bulls, too. >> really leaning into it and forcing smiles from senator scott and cotton, who are saying in those thought bubbles, we came here to change the subject.

and you brings it up again, herschel. >> my god. >> i know. and so then -- is this a confession? did he have a moment there were he leans over and finds those three bulls? >> seriously. >> look at cotton's face. i am not amused. >> do you really clap for that? >> you know what they tell us? georgia values. that's what rick scott calls it. georgia -- georgia values. >> maybe -- i don't -- >> maybe the story was so rambling actually most of the crowd didn't really understand what he was saying. >> i understood it. the bull, getting it pregnant. >> tell that story in a bar or in a -- >> it's crazy. completely crazy. >> who tells that joke anywhere? >> when people told me a couple weeks ago a great year for democrats i said, really? why is herschel walker still in

a tie with -- ebenezer baptist church. such negative partisanship that defines or politics now. more and more people, they'll tell you even -- i don't like donald trump, but i don't want nancy pelosi and aoc and so and so to run the country. here, they're like, okay. well -- okay. problems with this guy, four kids out of wedlock denies the kids, denies the last wife he had. get an abortion. pregnant, get an abortion. got her pregnant again and tried to pressure her to have another abortion. when she refused the relationship broke up and then he lied about her until he got busted. i mean -- >> a lot going on. >> a lot going on, and yet it's still a draw. >> georgia's is a close state, president biden barely won in 2020. >> right, but how does anybody look as this guy and think that

he's qualified to be a united states senator? something i said about donald trump in the 2015 when he started about muslim registry. who in georgia could vote for this guy? he's so ill equipped. >> i can't imagine walking into the voting booth no matter your party affiliation and saying i want to cast a vote for herschel walker, the guy who just made that bizarre. >> crass. >> bizarre, crass statement yesterday. continuing to dig himself into a hole and drives national headlines every day he comes out and says this reflecting poorly on the entire republican ticket. >> now let me make everybody angry watching this morning. good morning, it's 6:07. >> hi. we're here. katty kay, david ignatius, jonathan lemire. lovely evening. tell you about it. >> i will tell you in pennsylvania things are getting

more, more dire, i would say, for the democrat candidate there who was up by about 80 points. he did an interview yesterday and had to have closed captioning during the interview because he can't really -- process what, what he's hearing, jonatha lemire. interesting how that debate goes and democrats have to be thinking, yikes! this is a tough situation for us to be in. with a month to go. >> yeah. we're going to play more of that interview later in the show. john fetterman, of course, suf suffered a stroke earlier in the year. doctors say prognosis is good but still has trouble understanding words he hears. easier to understand if he reads them looking at closed captions even why doing a setup. there's the scene there. fetterman seen as a strong

candidate but conf questions ab his health. and dr. oz, deeply flawed, looks like the race has gotten really tight. democrats look around seeing pennsylvania as a best chance for a pick-up and nervous they could lose a seat. can't pick up pennsylvania and lose even one, there's go majority. that 50-50 tie and anxious about nevada and all wondering about georgia. back to herschel walker. a new poll out last night that only include a few days' worth of this latest walker scandal. haven't had a full sampling but a slight impact on that. even then the race is only three points, only up three on walker. that is going to remain very close going forward here. >> going to talk to dasha burns who conducted that interview with john fetterman coming up. by the way, the latest morning consult survey finds among like lie voters democrats narrowly lead on the congress'

ballot 48% to 45%. done slightly from a five-point spread last week. another 7% remain undecided. >> willie, these numbers are all over the place. you have, you have some of these generic ballas tests where democrats up by three, four, five. down by three, four or five. bottom line, though, is it is tight and what we always thought when i was a republican, when we were running, if we're even on the generic ballot, usually good news for republicans. democrats up three right now. we'll see what happens. again, we say it every two years. this year it's more i think appropriate than ever. it's who gets out to vote. are you going to have women who are going to be more motivated? are you going to have young voters who are more motivated? are you going to have fathers of daughters which showed up in some polls getting more motivated after a fundamental right for women, that they had

had 50 years under the constitution was taken away from them? i think the election actually, at least for the senate swings on that. i think in the house it may just be the difference between republicans winning by nine seats and 25, 26, 27 seats, but right now, that's the big question. this race is tight. >> yeah. will the abortion issue be the galvanizing force for democrats and independents in the race, as we've seen it be in some primary elections? will it be that way into november, have those kind of legs. will the dobbs decision from the supreme court have legs? a question for democrats. the generic polls tells us what we know, very, very close in places like pennsylvania, in arizona, places like georgia and why we're seeing even though we have some of these terrible candidates objectively terribly. republicans tell you that privately. mitch mcconnell said it publicly, some candidate quality, as he said, is not where it should be, still

supporting the candidates, despite all that. it is airtight in so many of these races and adrienne elrod i ask you as democratic strategist on set how democrats are feeling right now? felt they maybe had a boost from the dobbs decision. saw it turn up in a bunch of places as being helpful. we've heard from primaries like elissa slotkin saying from michigan numbers go up in a tight race in michigan. will it be that galvanizing force all the way through to november? >> yeah, willie, when the supreme court came forward and made the dobbs decision the big motivation from democrats was, can we keep this momentum up? obviously saw what happened in the 19th special election. saw what happened in kansas. so the big question for us is, is that momentum sustainable through november 8th of this year? at this point the answer is, yes. seeing this still be a motivating issue for voters. of course, inflation, the

economy still tends to be overall issue. look what's driving the key suburban voters, willie, who ultimately will decide what happens in this election especially in some post-races, dobbs, and a woman's reproductive rights is still the main issue that voters care about. i think when people, again, go into the ballot box and cast that vote, on november 8th, something that is top of mind. >> for sure. >> and one other group i'm curious about. younger voters have been energized, engaged by roe v. overturned. by student loans being forgiven. by this marijuana thing that joe biden did. all of these things that -- he -- dell volpe sees younger voters may be more motivated. said for years if you're a politician waiting for younger voters to carry you over the finish line you are going to be standing at the altar alone for a very long time waiting. i do wonder, those, pretty

massive things. student loans, regardless how you feel about it, and dobbs and -- >> but midterms. do they even know about it? >> and american politics, every election cycle turns on whether young voters ton out. they did turn out for barack obama in 2008. since then, they haven't shown up. and 2020 younger voters, interestingly since 2020 younger voters actually left joe biden's camp more almost than any other group. they've been more disappointed in this presidency than almost any other group of americans, but the combination of, of dobbs, marijuana, school debt. actually also high gas prices are going to factor into young voters. a lot of young voters drive to a and from colleges and drive to and from jobs. feeling gas prices. not immune from that andest tring as mika suggests do they actually tush out in midterm

elections at all? >> we'll revisit politics throughout the four hours of "morning joe." the other top headlines this morning. in ukraine crews still assessing damage and working to restore power from widespread russian missile attacks. of course, they started two nights ago. russia carried out at least 28 more missile strikes yesterday compared to 84 on monday. according to ukraine's military roughly half of the missiles yesterday were neutralized by air defenses. similar to monday's strikes. the missiles yesterday dropped energy infrastructure and civilian areas. in zaporizhzhia, emergency workers seen trying to extinguish fires about missiles destroyed several residential buildings and in lviv, the mayor said yesterday a third of the city was without power due to a rocket strike. in an interview with cnn yesterday president biden was asked about the likelihood that

russian president putin would use a tactical nuclear weapon in ukraine. >> i don't think he will, but i think it's irresponsible of him to talk about it. the idea a world leader, of one of the largest nuclear powers in the world says he may use a tactical nuclear weapon in ukraine. the whole point i was making, it to lead to just a horrible outcome and not because anybody intends to turn it into a world war, but you just, once you use a nuclear weapon, the stakes that could be made, mistakes, miscalculations. who knows what would happen. >> i think he is a rational actor who miscalculated significantly. i think he thought he'd be welcomed with open arms. this was home of mother russia and kyiv and he was going to be welcomed. i think he totally miscalculated. >> meanwhile, russia says it has arrested eight people in connection with the weekend attack on that bridge to crimea. the country's security services said this morning five of those

held are russians while the others are ukrainian and armenian. bring in nbc news chief international correspondent keir simmons live from moscow. keir, what more do we know about these arrests today? >> reporter: well, it's an announcement by the fsb here in russia, which, of course, is the successor to the kgb wrapping up or at least extending their investigation very quickly. surprisingly quickly, some might say. and announcing just before major speech here by president putin in moscow that they have traced to the root of a truck they say was responsible for the explosion sayings explosives were wrapped in plastic. saying that the main director, intelligence director ukraine's defense ministry was behind it. that the truck went by a circular route around the black sea then into russia from a vessel in ukraine and then crossed that bridge and then that explosion.

not to say ukrainian official, ukrainian television this morning describing that explanation as nonsense. again, the fsb making this announcement just before a major speech by president putin here in central moscow. that intelligence agency, the security agency here in russia, would obviously have been very keen to get conclusions quickly saying that they have arrested five russians, eight people in total. the others being ukrainian and armenian. willie? >> of course, putin now using the attack on that bridge as justification for two consecutive days of attacks on civilian targets inside ukraine. keir, just heard from president biden last night saying that he believes vladimir putin miscalculated with his war in ukraine. has putin responded to that? >> reporter: no. not directly. again, we are waiting for president putin to make a speech, but we have heard from the kremlin spokesman peskov.

not a response to president biden but goals remain the same and even more relevant now. if you like, one could put it this way. russia just doubling down. he also confirms, if you like, president biden saying there were no negotiations, dmitri pes ov currently no initiatives from either the russian or american side to organize contacts at the highest level and then also has to say, something to say, dmitry peskov about those nuclear threats including the thinly vaped threats from president putin himself. dmitry peskov saying we express regret daily western leaders practice nuclear rhetoric. we're not participating and will not participate. a it's you in the west making these threats and upping up

rhetoric. >> nbc's keir simmons reporting from moscow. keir, thanks so much. joe and be mika, of course, it was president putin himself who rised the specter using nuclear weapons even if limited in the war in ukraine as sort of a threat to the west to step back. >> yeah. the people i know that have worked in the cia in the past talked how -- so realistic. one scene keeps coming back to me. when i, i talk to russians in government or we hear something like that, we're all just -- it was negotiating with a russian at one point and just started kind of bitterly laughing and saying, you s.o.b.s. you just lie all the time. i'm so sick of your lies, and art, imitate like art ripped from the headlines of real life, and that's just what they do. it's extraordinary, and, of course, blaming the united

states for vladimir putin engaging in nuclear blackmail. crazy. i wanted to ask you something that you said last night in the national theater. a wonderful event. >> uh-huh. >> we want to thank the dean of the national cathedral dan randy hollerit and jon meacham for organizing this. heather connolly, the marshal fund was there. your 102-year-old father. >> oh, my gosh. star of the night. >> exercise regimen because we were talking about the marshal plan and when george marshall announced in harvard in 1945, your father, of course, was there. >> he was in the audience. >> amazing! >> handed him the microphone he said, i don't need a microphone. >> and he did not. >> the voice boomed throughout the national cathedral. >> incredible. >> extraordinary. >> he's quite a 102-year-old. >> he is powerful. >> yes. >> so -- let's talk about your column yesterday, and it's -- a bit

disconcerting. you hoped ukrainians would look at this as a putin problem not a russian problem and hope dan pressner would be right that this war is about ladimir putin and not an existential threat to russia. that's not exactly what you saw. >> joe, i was in ukraine over the weekend. left a day before the terrible bombing that we've seen in the last two days begin, but i was struck that in almost every conversation with ukrainians when i would ask this question, what's this fight about? is it against putin? implying a way to end it if putin steps back or something more fundamental? is it about russia? russia's fundamental contradictions with ukraine that's becoming western? everybody would answer that it's, it's with russia. that russia needs to be treated the way germany was after world war ii. it need a period in which root

and branch, the elements of the imperial attitude that supported putin in this war are taken apart and it's a, it's a much more maximal goal. >> talk about consequences of that spring 1945 didn't have nuclear weapons that could destroy the earth 100 times over. >> joe, what i said last night at the cathedral was i see two fundamental things in contradiction. after world war i we know that a harsh, punitive piece on germany helped lead to world war ii. so that tells us to be causal with russia. but we also know that world war ii ended with the unconditional surrender of germany and japan and that on that total defeat was built the miracle of post-war reconstruction. so i've been thinking that unless this imperial, this vicious thing that is in putin's style of governance, unless

that's really destroyed, we're just going to postpone the next war, and that worries me, because we're in a situation i think that's going to be much harder. biden wants a negotiated settlement. saying over and over again. i didn't hear that in kyiv from anybody. >> katty, we saw yesterday, a couple days ago played on the show the prime minister, i believe, of finland. and they said what's the off ramp here? and she looked into the camera shot and said, well, the off ramp is every russian troop leaving ukraine. and that's not just her. if you talk to the leaders in estonia and latvia, they look at us like we're fools. and say eave been warning you about this for a decade and you haven't listened to us. listen to us now. >> yeah. what you hear from central european diplomats. very strongly. what they're telling us, they told g7 as well. the counterquestion i hear from

more western european diplomats and leaders is, we don't know what it looks like for a country that has a nuclear weapon to lose. we've never had that before. we've never had a situation in which a country is humiliated, has lost, says it's lost, but -- >> continues to humiliate itself. >> and nuclear weapons is why we're in this process of how far do we push putin? how far? we hope putin ends up like yeltsin saying, move you out, you go there and then something replaces that, but what replaces that is not clear. >> i have said, and it may not be popular but justice, for about ten years, what replaces putin? tell you, david, when i got to congress in 1995, it seemed once a year we would have armed services committee meetings horrified by what intelligence community would come in. say, we believe right now --

this was, of course, during just after the collapse of the soviet union. there was political anarchy. social anarchy. economic anarchy in the soviet union. we had people trying to figure out whether their nuclear weapons were secure. and we would have one hearing after another where, it's like we believed there may be seven nuclear suitcase bombs. they may be somewhere in middle america, in a locker, in a bus station, and when such -- you know, that, that seemed to be a regular occurrence on the armed services committee back, i will say it, before vladimir putin. wrestled all of these, these elements together. and -- >> broad measure order russians are very -- >> what happens after he leaves is the concern. >> so your concern about what happens after putin, and the possibility that it could be even worse, is shared by the top

intelligence analysts in the u.s. look at the situation. concern. fragmentation. you could have tight control, allowing us to make a deal, let's say, over ukraine or over arms control become impossible in such a fragmented situation. it's a moment i often quote general milley chairman of join chiefs of staff, crossing the river stepping from stone to stone. meaning it's that unstable. each step not just sure what's there, and a time when i'm glad that president biden and people around him are trying to think very carefully that there being -- they're being thankfully forthright in assistance to ukraine. give them more and more of what they need and trying to think hard, how do we avoid a fundamental complication between the u.s. and russia, which would be, let's face it, world war

iii. >> and also talking about ukrainians want russia to be broken up into pieces. a nightmare. we want -- >> need to say to ukraine. you may want that but we don't think that's the answer. >> do we want chechnyan warlords being in charge of nuclear weapons? do we want radicals and other parts of -- it's -- it is a nightmare and that's why i asked last night, does there come a point where the ukrainians suck sucksucceed where their interests and our diverge? because we do not want russia separated and broken into little bits. we do not want this to be an existential crisis for russia. why? because of a nuclear weapon. >> too dangerous. >> again, we saw how dangerous it was when you had a drunk, a corrupt drunk running -- i'm not saying vladimir putin is, is an

angel. i'm not denying he's a war criminal. i will tell you, though, there were a lot of people like you said katty in the intel community after he took control thought, well, at least we don't have to worry about al qaeda buying a nuclear weapon from a russian separatist group. >> yeah, and add not just the nuclear element. there are so many weapons pouring into ukraine at the moment from all around -- that the americas are trying to source. right? once they cross the ukrainian border we don't know where they're going. we have no eyes on them once they cross the border to ukraine. at the moment secure in the hands of the ukrainians, but if you get a really -- you could see a situation where those weapons end up in the hands of the wrong people. perhaps it's russians who are coming in from the east. it's an incredibly volatile situation at the moment. >> which, mika, why i do think, talking about harry truman last night and how he managed 1947 to

'52, managed the postworld war and all the challenges going down for western europe, central europe that was broken and shattered. joe biden thus far has done an extraordinary job. >> really has. >> every day walking through, as you said, stepping from stone to stone. i would say walking through a diplomatic mine field. >> yeah. >> and done extraordinarily well. >> well, we're going to revisit this, and still ahead on "morning joe" we're going to talk more about the administration's decision to expedite air defense systems to john kirby of the national security council. and as mentioned, nbc exclusive with pennsylvania democratic nominee john fetterman. what he's saying about coping with the after-effects of the stroke he suffered earlier this year. also ahead, new reporting on secret service communications relating to the january 6th capitol attack that have been

turned over to congressional investigators. and we'll speak with a former officer who defended the capitol during last year's insurrection. michael fanone out with a new warning about the growing threat to our democracy. you're watch wering "morning joe." we'll be right back. it's the subway series menu. 12 irresistible subs. the most epic sandwich roster ever created. ♪♪ it's subway's biggest refresh yet! quality healthcare goes beyond prescriptions and procedures. it's about making people feel ca no one knows that better than physician associates because we don't just see patien

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but it will save your family money. you've got to call out the d.a. the president's statements that day would be it. saying, you know you were on the phone with him. while you were on the phone with him i was getting the [ bleep ] kicked out of me. almost losing my life. the way he was saying this is what happened when you steal an election. go home. i love you. what the [ bleep ] is that?

that came from the president of the united states! >> that is the voice of former d.c. metro police officer michael fanone calling out house minority leader kevin mccarthy and republicans in newly released oughtio from a 2020 meeting with mccarthy. fanone along with other officers' families meeting with the congressman to advocate for a bipartisan committee to investigate the attack on the capitol. republicans ultimately would block that prospect. fanone secretly recorded the conversation, which he reveals now in his new book titled "hold the line: the insurrection and one cop's battle to america's soul" and officer fanone joins us now in studio. congratulations on the book. nice to see you. thank you again for what you and your fellow ofs did that day, for standing in the breach, for holding the line on a truly ugly day for america. why did you feel like you needed to record that conversation with

kevin mccarthy? >> i mean, because i don't trust him. i didn't trust him to recount the conversation accurately. and -- you know, i wanted to, to memorialize it so that in the case that, you know, he said something that was different either from what he was saying publicly or he said something in the meeting that was, you know, different from what he had told other people that i would have you know, some type of evidence to prove that. >> kevin mccarthy saw from an excerpt he knew exactly what happened. yelling on the phone to donald trump, they're trying to kill me. what do you know different from what you know happened that day? ron johnson senator from wisconsin last week speaking to a group in milwaukee. kept putting armed insurrection in air quotes. wasn't armed insurrection stayed

inside the rope lines. you were there, recount what happened if you want to. what do you think when you hear that from these people? >> in the case of senator ron johnson, talking about this earlier. you know, he's adhering to the playbook of, if i continue to repeat the same lies over and over again, knowing full well that most of my constituents only source their news from fox news, not saying anything about realities of january 6th, then i can get away with those lies. debunked many, many times over. there were guns present on january 6th. many firearms present on january 6th. not a lot of firearm arrests made because the officers were too busy fighting for their lives but we have proof positive there were individuals there that day that were armed and we did make arrests, you know, with regards to the firearms and people illegally carrying them within the city limits. >> officer fanone let me echo

willie's comments thank you for your service that day. two things. give us ap update on your health, you suffered significant injuries that day, but also walk us through in those hours the danger you and your fellow officers faced and also the strength you showed? >> as far as my physical health, i had a lot of great doctors that i worked with for over a year. with regard to the trauma of the day, you know, psychologically, i've come to terms with, with what i experienced that day and i'm very proud of the way that i performed and the way that many of the other officers that responded to the capitol that day performed. i'm sorry, what was the other question. >> just did the restraint that you showed. i've seen great danger, obviously. but as terrible as that moment was it could have spiraled that much more out of control. >> yeah. again, i think it speaks to the

individual officers that responded to the capitol that day. you know, the protocol that dictates how police officers use force is very specific. especially talking about deadly force. and while, you know, in my case being out in the crowd, being assaulted, there were individuals that identified in which i believe i was justified to use deadly force. i felt my life was in danger. that being said, in a crowd scenario, had i used my firearm, you know, there's a good chance that i would have struck other people that may have been breaking the law but may have not risen to the level of deadly force being appropriate. so i chose to use another tactic as did many, many other officers. you know, this -- we don't have the ability to just shoot openly into, you know, into a crowd because we feel like we're under attack. >> i want to point out, too, for people like ron johnson who

equivocates wasn't armed, wasn't an insurrection. somehow you got beaten with pipes stunned with a taser, threatened with your own gun. all of those things did happen. were you wondering officer fanone in the moment where's the cavalry? where's the backup? so much talk why the national guard wasn't deployed quicker and where was everybody and learned a lot in the january 6th hearings what former president trump did not do. which you looking over your shoulder saying, where is everybody? where's the backup? >> i mean, no the in the moment. not in the moment. i do remember a brief period of time when i originally got into the tunnel, there was, you know, one of the officers, you know, kind of looked at me as though, where's everybody else? when my partner jimmy albright and i arrived. i was, like, well, it's just the two of us.

you know. that's it. but that being said, in hindsight looking back and hearing through the select committee's investigation that there were changes in protocol made to calling out the national guard in the weeks and months just prior to january 6th. i mean, that's what we in the business call a clue. the fact that donald trump sat for 187 minutes and didn't do shit while hundreds of police officers were fighting for their lives on the capitol steps and we now know that he was watching intently throughout that entire period, and then combined with the statement that he eventually put out, which to me was absolutely infuriating. i mean, everyone knows that that was a disingenuous statement, at best. you know? we love you. go home. this is what happens when you steal an election. it's bullshit. >> you write in your book had to have his arm twisted even to

make that statement publicly. >> multiple times. senior aides. his own daughter, mr. president, you need to say something here. even out to the rose garden it took three or four takes before he was even able to offer a mild condemnation of what was happening here and you should go. so learning this now, i'm sure following january 6th hearings. another one tomorrow. do you feel they've done a really good job what went into that day and what happened that day to the american people? >> yeah. again, i, i wish there had been a, bipartisan commission. i think that would have been the appropriate mechanism to investigate this. how much, kevin mccarthy and republicans shot that down. so the select committee i think has done outstanding job investigating the root causes of january 6th, and -- placing them before the american people in a

format that was palatable that people could understand. to me, it was very clear at the end that, you know, donald trump engaged in defrauding the american people, lying to them about the election. 2020 election. and having not been a free and fair election. and i think he needs to be held accountable. >> listen to one more piece of audio from that meeting with republican lawmakers. this is the mother of officer brian sicknick who died later asking congressman mccarthy about what former president trump was doing while her son was being attacked at the capitol. >> watching television, watching it with his family. i'm sorry. >> wasn't watching tv. >> you know what was going on. knows fighting for hours and hours and hours. >> i don't know that he did know that at that point. >> kevin mccarthy running

interference for former president trump to the mother of an officer who died later. have any of these republicans privately reached out to you? has anyone apologized to you, checked in on you? do you get any of that from any members of congress? >> no. with the exception of a few i've made friends with. adam kinzinger, eric swalwell. no. i mean, i -- that was another part of this experience. specifically the meeting that i had with kevin mccarthy. seeing the indifference on behalf of republican members of congress, but in many cases democrat members of congress, too. in which they saw january 6th as either a distraction from their legislative agenda. not politically advantageous, and in this case, you know, you have the mother of a fallen police officer, a police officer that died as a result of the injuries that he sustained on january 6th, fighting in defense

of the capitol. in defense of democracy. and, you know, kevin mccarthy -- just could not muster up any imp thi or compassion for this woman whatsoever. >> back to blue when it's convenient in the case of them. cops beaten on the steps of the capitol. so important to tell your story and the story of what happens that day because so many people want to change the story. metro d.c. officer michael fanone. the book is titled "hold the line: the insurrection of one cop's battle for america's soul." officer, thank you again for being here and for your service. >> thank you. coming up, a look at the stories making headlines and update on the classified documents recovered from mar-a-lago. the justice department is picking apart more claims from trump's legal team. and president biden has not officially said he's running for re-election but sounded confident about his chances in 2024.

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try to close it on a tuesday. alvarez launches, deep right field, and -- this one is gone! and the astros walk them off in game one! alvarez, are you kidding me? >> walks it off a three-run home run for the astros. absolutely devastating to the mariners who had a big lead. game one 6 their series in houston. a comeback. astros trailing 7-3 through seven innings. but battled back for that stunning win. joe, i checked my phone. >> ah. >> saw the mariners up 7 and said good for them. stealing one on the road. this series will be interesting. then the astros just -- hard to say, a dagger in game one. tough to come back from with a team that good. >> they are the guys that wear the black hats.

everybody outside of houston city limits last night, upset at this moment. it is -- i saw a guy in fenway a couple months ago, and wearing an orange jersey. it had the astros logo, and just said in small words, "hate us." they're embracing it. therapy the bad guys, but, yeah. i mean, i really thought we went into the event, seattle's up 7-3. wow, seattle may be the team of destiny, boy, astros did to them what they did to the bluejays. crazy. the entire day was crazy, willie. started in atlanta. phillies scored runs in four of the first five innings. started with left field single to the fourth and scored two runs extending the lead to 6-1. braves made it interesting. three-run homer in deep center. one-run game bottom of the ninth but phillies hang on for the 7-6

win. city think braves will be the team going to l.a. go now to new york. >> 3-2 positive rizzo. swung on, hit high in the air to right nap ball is high, it is far -- it -- is -- gone! second deck. ah! rizzo rakes once again! >> john sterling with the call. exciting, jonathan lemire. one of those fans in the right field bleachers. bouncing up and down, loves it. puts the game away. and cole gave up four hits, one run striking out eight guardians. >> and turner looks like -- ranging back, and it's a 1-0 start for the dodgers! >> and then in the night cap, that's the dodgers. trea turner getting l.a. on the board early. l.a. continued their dominance of the padres this season. l.a. won 14 of the 19 games

against san diego during regular season's dodgers held off a late rally by padres with a nice double play. here it comes. l.a. gets the win. 5-3, joe. >> yeah. it's -- i wonder, willie, whether we'll see a repeat what he had in '77-78 and '81. >> i like it. >> could this be going to a dodgers/yankees world series? what a classic that would be. right? >> yeah. dodgers, best team in baseball by a long shot. love to see that, too, obviously as a yankee fan. jon, those houston astros stand in the way. just out of curiosity, how many bangs on the trash can is a banging -- >> quick three coming in for robby. what a devastating loss for mariners. robby rey, first pitch tomorrow to close it out. backfires. were going to steal a win on the

road. verlander starts. could have seized control of the series. instead a crushing defeat bp look, yankees got what you needed. right? garrit cole. not dominant, but good. that's a change, because he's had playoff struggles in recent years. i agree with joe. i think the braves are still the team to beat in that phillies series. lined up game two and three and best of five. dicey. the dodgers, just the best. just a machine, joe. it is 111 wins. they -- looked like they are well on their way again to head back to the playoffs, and dave roberts says a bit of a mixed record as a postseason manager but pushed buttons yesterday. >> we're being very polite, because, of course. >> i know. >> stole second. always have to be polite to dave roberts. yes. >> all right. thank you. still ahead -- >> the braves. i mean, it's going to be hard for the braves to be denied.

look what they've been doing since june 1st. absolutely on fire. i keep looking every couple weeks. like, the braves. how are they doing? won eight of ten games. a couple weeks later eight out of -- kind of like, that scene of "budge cassidy and the sundanse kid" who are those guys? two years in a row come out of nowhere. i've got to believe we'll have an l.a./braves championship. >> could have told you that a long time ago. >> mika's right. >> not watching and knows that's where it's we end up. >> looked like a fun night, and still ahead here -- >> you did? >> i actually did. >> have you counseled your daughter giving up on the mets, she can't talk about it. hurts too much. poor amelia. loves her mets. they let her down. >> not denied. still ahead on "morning joe," john kirby of the national

security council joins us here on set in a few moments to talk about the russia invasion of ukraine. how russia continues to attack ukraine with more missile strikes. plus, the justice department releases an update on its investigation into the capitol attack. we'll dig into that ahead of the house select committee's next public hearings that will take place tomorrow. "morning joe" is coming right back. shingles. the rash can feel like an intense burning sensation and last for weeks. it can make your workday feel impossible. the virus that causes shingles is likely already inside of you. 50 years or older? ask your doctor about shingles.

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john kirby and admiral's here to talk about the very latest in ukraine but coming up, wow. herschel walker, the senate candidate from georgia, somehow doubles down getting multiple women pregnant on the issue of pushing a woman to get an abortion on the issue of not standing by his kids and running rampant all over the state with other women. he doubles down on these accusations by using some sort of symbolism with a bull and a cow. so -- along with tim cotton and rick scott supporting your candidate. must have been fun standing up on that stage clapping for that. >> representing georgia values. >> great. >> tells the story, willie, about a bull and six pregnant cows. >> and having something going on. >> and how he had something going on and everybody clapping. asking, of course, the admiral about that. >> no!

>> and willie, a ballot test out showing democrats up by three points. really, these generic ballot tests, i really, you know, i don't know how much it means but i do know democrats are behind in generic ballot tests, very bad news but up by three, the latest. >> i see the admiral slowly pushing us up -- as that conversation ramps up. right out of the studio. my expert political analysis. going to be very close. here's the generic ballot. i mean, swung a couple points either way as this has gone along. we were talking about it before. toss-ups in critical states. georgia, herschel walker, pennsylvania, john fetterman. ramping up. races that will swing control of the senate and democrats hope they can hang on here getting tighter and a little more precarious for democrats as election day closes in less than a month away now. >> yeah. we talk about wave elections,

2010. 1994. 2008, of course, also, in the democrats' direction. right now -- much can change over the next couple of weeks. a week is a long time in politics. 2014 looks like so many tight senate races. you had no idea which way the races were going to go. end of the day, most of the senate races broke for the republicans by a couple points. made a big difference. republicans did well in the house. made a big difference, because of a late break. we just don't know right now which direction that's going to go in. like which i asked general mccaffrey, talk about this election. what's your opinion? "i don't know." love general mccaffrey. >> and more on the politics here in the u.s. in just a moment, and the strange circumstances in georgia. but we want to talk with the admiral about the situation in

russia and ukraine. especially with russia carrying out at least 28 more missile strikes in the past 24 hours compared to 84 on monday. >> right. >> a lot happening. this, i guess, still consequences russia claiming for this bridge that was blown up. >> and you've read, i'm sure, "times," urging allies to expand ukraine arsenal. are we going to do it? >> we are absolutely going to do that, joe. the secretary is in brussels i this today with a ukraine contact group. a group of nations that tops 50 from around the world to meet to offer more security assistance for ukraine and you heard the president just a day or so ago. we're going to continue to provide them with the kinds of capabilities they need and that would include continuing to supply air defense capabilities. >> and communications with russians? yesterday everybody yep set on twitter for five minutes the report elon musk was talking to putin.

everybody was enraged. talking to putin? do we have people talking to putin? >> we do. channels at different levels but we do, yes. >> and -- right now, do you see any pathway at any time in the next three months, six months, to a negotiating a settlement? >> that's what we're hoping. working in today, putin pull out his troops. >> not going to happen. >> showed no inclination to do that. the president is clear. we obviously want to see a negotiated settlement but it doesn't appear like either side is ready for that. short of getting there give ukraine what they need to succeed on the battlefield, when they do sit down, going to be on president zelenskyy terms harks harks -- has to be. he has what he needs to get that done. >> and studying most of your adult life and following the news. love for you to get in on the

conversation we've been having around the table. what does russia look like without vladimir putin? remembering what it looked like before vladimir putin, which was a very dangerous anarchic state with nuclear weapons. >> the difficult to know right now, and i will tell you. we're not focusing on that far into the future. we're not looking at a regime change as it were. we just want this war to end and we want ukraine's sovereignty and territory respected and russian forces out of ukraine. that's what's our focus is on. you'll see as we work through. we have a national security strategy that's coming out soon here. you'll see that we're trying to take a long view of global security and stability. making sure that not only are we poised to compete in the world, but that we're also poised to deal -- even with countries and with governments that, which we

all agree poised a deal with shared challenges we have. whether climate change, terrorism, economic insecurity, food insecurity. all of those things are important. >> john, been in ukraine this weekend and had a chance to talk to lots of ukrainians. i think the thing most powerful for me was they feel that the united states wants them to win. >> yeah. >> isn't convinced it wants russia to lose. many ukrainians said to me this won't change until the idealis, that it's not enough for ukraine to win. russia has to lose here? >> we've talked about this almost from the beginning, david. yes, we want ukraine to succeed on the battlefield. we also don't want russia, mr.

president, to be in a position to be able to do this again. so, i mean, whether that satisfies the test of russia losing is for others to say but we've been very clear. we don't want him to emerge from this in a position to be able to do this again because the stakes are just too high. >> interesting, david. last night at the national cathedral talking a lot about this. you, jon meacham, the german marshall fund talking about merkel role in the world and a lot about ukraine in light of the main topic the marshall plan, but love to have you share what you heard from ukrainians in your trip last week, and then, admiral, i just -- is the white house concerned that russia has painted itself in a corner? like, they've gotten themselves to the point maybe there's not a lot of logic in what they're doing, so how do you work with

them if they're just cornered? i'll let david start. >> just to begin. the ukrainians speak with such passionate conviction. i wrote that it was like talking to what you would imagine what it sounded like during the blitz. the people who suffered so terribly but absolutely resolved. pretty good spirits, and they want to know that we're with them. they think they're winning. they think the russians can be beaten. they just want us to stand with them and they ask whether you americans really are our allies. we know you're our partners, giving us weapons. we know that you're for us sort of but you don't want us to go all the way. that's their fear. i would be curious. last weekend, the people would want me to ask admiral john kirby, the white house spokesman on this, what about it? they want to go all the way. do we want to help them do that? >> we do.

we want them to have their territory back. we want ukraine to be whole, and to be secure and to be sovereign, and quite frankly to be safe. so i think we've been very clear about that. i mean, we are with them. we are obviously the biggest contributor here not just security assistance, david, but financial assistance as well. >> i was going to say, admiral. if $40 billion doesn't make you an ally, what's the price tag for being an ally these days? $40 billion-plus and saying we're not allies? >> yeah. the other thing is, look. you saw the g7 statement yesterday reiterated similar language from this summer. g7 nations of course the united states is a member has committed to working long term to help ukraine be able to be secure. going forward. to make sure that we are thinking through, and secretary austin talked about this. thinking through what their defense establishment needs to look like, what do their national security needs need to

look like going forward post-war. it's not like we're just trying to get to the table and throw up our hands and quit. >> and one more thing, john. the president talking about wanting an off ramp for putin. that suggestive that you and your colleagues in the white house think maybe there is one? what would it look like? >> this kind of gets to mika's question. i mean, it's hard to know right now. we can't get inside mr. putin's brain to understand exactly what he's thinking now or where he wants to go in the future, but the president's right. we have to be thinking about how does this end? and when could it end? under what circumstances? recognizing, of course, that mr. zelenskyy really gets to be in the driver's seat in terms of what success looks like when he's willing to negotiate and what he's willing to negotiate for. we're not going to dictate those terms to him, but obviously, yes. we, not just the united states. our allies are thinking this, too. how much longer and what does it look like at the end of it? it's difficult to know, because,

again, we can't get inside putin's brain, what his off ramp would be. what would change his decision calculus. we can only go with what we're seeing every day in the intelligence and the information we're getting. that all tells us he's still committed to this fight. in fact doubling down. got mobilization of reserveists doing the annexation. >> right. >> he's doubling down showing no indication he's willing to slow down. that changes obviously our kag kag calculus. it's a kinetic battlefield. they've made dramatic gains in the northeast able to secure and hold on to and making more progress in the south than even just a week ago. there's a real sense of momentum on the ukrainian side. you sensed that obviously when you talked to them. they do feel like 0, that the tide is turning in their behalf, and we just have to make sure we continue to help them do that. >> john, are we at some kind of

inflection point? you have head of britain's intelligence listening service, gchq yesterday saying they are making the calculation putin is making strategic mistakes and that the russian population are becoming increasingly aware of the cost of the war, partly because of the fallout and all the people leaving. what ukrainians would like are longer-range missiles from the americans. they feel they could do more damage, get to the point they want to get. not saying america hasn't helped. totally recognize th$40 billion, and they want to push the russians out to go that one step further. winter is coming. why not at this point -- and i understand the sensitivity. worried what could happen if they strike inside russia -- but look what russians are doing to ukraine at this point? does it change the calculation and time to give them those

longer-range weapons to push russians out? >> two thoughts on that, katty. one is with are literally in almost daily communication with the ukraines. general austin there talking with them today. the needs have changed. when the war started talking javelin anti-tank war missiles and short-range and small arms ammunition. as he, putin, moved the war to the donbas, open farmland started sending highly advanced artillery rockets and now back to talking about some air defense. so the need, as the war changes the needs change, and we've been changing with that in lockstep with the ukrainians. i won't get ahead of future decisions but telling you it's an open, candid conversation we're having with them and willing to provide what meets

their needs to win on the battlefield. made progress with, what? systems we provided, particularly himars effective on the battlefield. it's not as if we're not trying to get them in a better position or that we're not helping them succeed. we are. the systems we've been giving them over this last four to six weeks particularly have made an enormous difference. they have allowed them, quite frankly, to push the russians out of ukraine. >> and let me ask you, though, about the consequences of giving weapons systems in russia. there was a bombing, an assassination in russia, and intel community suggests it was the ukrainians who do it. despite the fact that the united states government warned them against doing any such thing. they did it anyway. so do we want to give them weapon systems that could reach into russia? i mean, again, the consequences.

talk about -- how high the stakes are. >> yeah. >> if the ukrainians decide to go rogue? >> i think from the very beginning, we've been -- mindful of escalation management. i mean, one of the things that we've tried to balance throughout the last eight months. hard to believe it's going on eight months now. making sure that the ukrainians have what they need to succeed and they have without having this war escalate beyond the death and destruction it's already visited on the ukrainian people. because, joe, a war that's escalated, god for bid, the use of weapons of mass destruction, is not only going to are disastrous for the ukrainen people and their cause, disastrous for europe and certainly disastrous for russia. so there's greater global concerns here, and the president has been very serious about trying to manage that. manage escalation. you know, thus far, it, that

strategy has been working, but it's not something -- you can't take your hands off the wheel on that. you've got to constantly think about it every day. >> ask you about saudi arabia in light of the opec+ decision. president biden saying there will be consequences. the white house reinforcing that saying the relationship with saudi arabia needs to be re-evaluated. >> right. >> and it's not lost on the impact this will have on the election. just what is the white house thinking about what saudi arabia has done with this? and what are the potential array of consequences that could be had? i know you won't say exactly, but what are the possibilities here? >> the president was deeply disappointed by the opec decision last week. he himself called it short-sighted, and he believes -- frankly said this from the begins of the administration but certainly believe weres now in light of that decision we need to think about this bilateral relationship with saudi arabia. they are leader of opec without

question. also a strategic partner. been a partner 80 years. some 70,000 americans live and work including some troops inside saudi arabia. that's a country under threat by the houthi rebels and yemen. the president believes, about balance, now's the time to re-evaluate where this. >> bonawyn: -- bilateral relationship is going. >> how? >> the scope of things that the united states means no saudi arabia and what we contribute and provide, and whether that all needs to be done in the same way. i don't want to get ahead of decisions. this process has just started and the president wants to consult with members of congress. he knows that there's many members up on the hill also with similar concerns. what's a chance to talk with them about that. again, i won't get ahead of him. you heard him say yesterday, there's going to be consequences. >> a reaction. >> for a decision they made, which quite frankly own benefited russia. >> david -- >> hmm.

>> and i can say this as somebody who's been a realist and says, we have to let saudi arabia get out of the corner. they are a strategic partner. just like i say, we have to figure out how to work with china. because a pathway to peace in russia goes through china. but let's just be really honest here. everybody knows it. mbs lured a "washington post" reporter, tortured him. had him chopped into little pieces. had him buried in fields. lied about it. the entire world knows that he did that. the united states obviously horrified. condemned this horrific action, and yet joe biden understands, understood that at some point,

because they had been a strategic partner for so long. because there are u.s. interests there. that we had to figure out a way to get him out of the corner. so biden goes -- takes that political risk. very unpopular decision to make, but he knew he had to do it for the good of the united states. by the way, it's just like i said with china. let's not even begin to talk about their human rights abuses. they're outrageous, what they're doing. but climate change. economic stability worldwide. all of these things depend on us having a relationship with china. so biden takes that step, and then he deliberately, mbs deliberately humiliates biden. helps russia and puts us in a position where now, what u.s.

president can do that again? what fool would go and do that again? it's -- it's -- it's really -- it's one of the most short-sighted stupid things. >> outrageous. no other way to put it. jamal khashoggi, murdered in the brutal way described was a friend of mine and colleague for many years. when he, when president biden went to saudi arabia this summer, i wrote, this is rail politic. this is where you give up your fundamental principles, because you think you have interests that are overriding. and as you say, i don't like it, but -- i understand that. he went there to get some help at a key time on the energy that we need to avoid inflation, and keep our alliance together, and for mbs, head of saudi arabia, a

time as john kirby says we still have troops, weapons, protecting them to basically turn his back and side with russia is astounding. and i think it's extremely short-sighted on his part. i hope the president makes clear that, how unacceptable it is. glad to hear you say that. but it's just -- it's extraordinary when you stoop, you know, to do the fist pump. he's president of the united states and you stoop to do that fist bump, and this is what you get for it. >> hmm, hmm. >> and -- admiral -- he's choosing. mbs is choosing to help russians build weapons systems that kill little children in ukraine. that target playgrounds in ukraine. he makes that choice all the while russia is an ally with

iran, and guess what? when iran goes sideways, looking to china for help or russia? no. they'll come to the united states again. >> uh-huh. >> who's around this guy? is he just completely isolated? is he just winging it? is he the donald trump of the -- >> well -- >> the gulf states? >> hmm. >> it is -- >> it's difficult to understand the logic there. the way you put it is very good, joe, in terms of the balance here of iran and russia, and where saudi arabia seizes itself going forward. and kind of influence, what influence they need to have, but it's difficult for us. this is why the president wants to take a look at this relationship. it's difficult for us to understand the rationale behind his decision-making. again, it did benefit russia and will allow russia to continue to profiteer off the oil on the global market, which they will use again to prosecute this war. >> jonathan lemire? >> admiral kirby, i want to get your take on news came across a

few minutes ago of president putin saying that russia is ready to resume gas supplies by one link of the germany-bound nord stream 2 pipeline remains operational. an update of the energy crisis europe could face this winter, but more than that, what about the investigation into the other pipelines, damaged them and taken off-line? what happened? >> as far as we know that investigation is still ongoing. i don't have an update. an act of sabotage you heard. we don't know who could be attributed to that. russia stands to gain weaponizing energy inside europe. i haven't seen the report. if that's true, obviously good news. i will tell you the president has been very committed to making sure we're looking for alternative sources of natural gas for our european allies and partners. we've doubled our commitment

that we made back in march of our contributions to natural gas to europe and working with were other foreign suppliers in countries that have storage they can provide, stores to provide to europe. i mean, we know its going to be a cold winter. europeans know it's going to be a cold winter. the other thing i will tell you, done really ask about this, but given uncertainty over natural gas and energy going into the winter we still have seen just incredible unity among european allies and partners. eu recently, you know, working towards getting a price cap implemented that would limit the ability of mr. putin to profit, benefit from oil on the market. even going into the cold months, a lot of unity still in europe to stand fast and in front of putin and this weaponization of energy. >> john, before you go, finally on the saudi thing. i mean, the situation as it looks from kind of european perspective and from the middle eastern perspective is that the president of the united states went to saudi arabia, got

effectively humiliated. didn't get what he wanted, and now america looks weak in the region. the united states' position, looks weakened. you have to respond in some kind. right? a re-assessment of american authority over this? otherwiser the president goes, not just comes away with nothing. comes away with -- >> a couple thoughts. i reject the criticism we came away with nothing. the trip was not all about oil and production. yes, energy security was on the agenda at the gcc. no question about that. of course, the saudis have a leadership role with the gcc as well. it also about a more cooperation, a maritime between america and lebanon. not by accident because of the president's leadership. i reject that. that said and the president said this more clearly than i can. there will be consequences for the decision by opec led by

saudi arabia to once again cut their production now by 2 million barrels. we have to re-evaluate the relationship and think about it going forward. doesn't mean we're going to sever it or thrown in the trash can, but you will see -- i won't give a timeline. we're going to want to talk to members of congress. many out now at midterms approach, but we are going to start to have those conversations and, yes, i think you'll see changes in the bilateral relationship with saudi arabia, mean beingful changes. >> david, quickly talk, admiral kirby isn't here. why in the world go to saudi arabia without the deal done? before you go to saudi arabia? >> but he thought it was. i think -- >> i think a decision made this man is going to be king of saudi arabia for perhaps decades. that the united states needs to have a relationship with him. >> uh-huh. >> and the president needs to need that relationship. mbs felt he'd been snubbed. so the decision was, okay. let's end the snub. >> going to be --

>> it's just -- i think the foolishness here is on the part of mbs. i think he is the most head-strong, willful young man. i think, you know, he does depend on the united states for security. if he thinks that russia and china are going to protect him from iran he's nuts. >> i would just say. he's going to be king for a long time, david? doesn't want to choose the wrong side. and he did. >> he did. >> he may want to rethink things. >> okay. on that note -- >> you put it -- succinctly and i think admiral kirby responded saying there will be changing. >> we're going to be watching. john kirby, thank you very much. you are right here and great to have you. much more ahead on the war in ukraine as well as any potential action against saudi arabia when the chair of the senate intelligence committee mark warner joins us here in

washington. also ahead, nbc news exclusively pennsylvania democratic nominee john fetterman as he tries to address the questions about his health following a stroke earlier in the year. and up next -- >> closed captions. >> we'll explain. up next, a senate race many thought was a slam dunk for republicans now seems to be a dead heat. north carolina democratic senate nominee cheri beasley joins us for her surging campaign. we'll talk about that. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. my asthma felt anything but normal. a blood test helped show my asthma is driven by eosinophils, which nucala helps reduce. nucala is a once-monthly add-on injection for severe eosinophilic asthma.

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do you stand by your vote flot to certify the presidential

electoral vote for now president biden. >> what it led to. didn't have the votes to overturn it having the debate was a healthy thing and i do stand by that vote. >> just about a healthy debate. north carolina congressman ted budd. the state's republican nominee for united states senate during a debate last week. expected to run away with the race but recent polling has him in a statistical tie with his democratic opponent cheri beasley. she joins us now former chief justice of the north carolina supreme court. justice beasley, great to you have with us this morning. thanks for being here. the polls, just showed one poll has you within three points of ted budd. another one shows one point for all intents and purposes you fought your way into a tie with the sitting united states congressman. how have you done it? what are the issues you think are at the center of this race?

>> you know, willie, folks are tired of congressman budd being involved in the pettiness of partisan politics in washington and you started the show, this segment, talking about the fact he's an election denier. the reality is congressman budd said the folks who ride to the capitol injured and killed hundreds of police officers called them just patriots standing up. and here he is trying to tear down our democracy. i mean, this man has not worked in the interests of folks here in north carolina, and he really has worked in his own interests. the interests of his corporate donors and only spread fear and sown division. folks across our great state are able to see the difference. >> clearly democrats believe you have a really nice chance to win here. $4 million more for a new ad campaign in the race along with

$10.5 million from the senate majority pac. one key issue at the center of this. talked about a poll. emerson poll, has you within three points. in that poll 81% of undecided voters are women whose most important issue is abortion access. what is your view on abortion? how often should it be legal? when should it cease to be legal, in your view? >> you know, i've been very clear. i've been a judge over two decades and served chief justice of the supreme court of north carolina and i know women have had a constitutionally protected right to make this decision with their position without government interference, and i certainly believe in the protections and the restrictions provided by roe and understand that abortions only happen in late-term pregnancy when there's a serious issue. congressman budd led the charge on an absolute ban on abortion without exception for rape and

incest and if a woman is sexually abused forced to carry the pregnancy to term. if she has an atopic pregnancy, separated uterus or body won't release, if he gets his way women will not be able to get the life-staving treatment they need, which is an abortion and it means women will die. i'm prepared to fight to make sure that roe v. wade is the law and anytime our freedoms are on the line i will be fighting for the folks in north carolina and standing up for them. >> on that question congressman budd co-sponsored legislation making it illegal after 15 weeks saying there should be exceptions for rape and incest and the health of the mother. do you think that is an extreme position? >> he's been very clear that he is pro-life and that he does support an absolute ban and has been his position. co-sponsor of this legislation but clear he supports and absolute ban on abortion without

exceptions for rape incest or risk term of the woman. >> judge beasley, just two weeks ago former president trump came to town and accused you of supporting defunding the police. now you can speak to your record behind the bench on that and tell us what your plan is now to support police? >> not instead. i have been on the bench over two decades and the one who's been respecting the rule of law and upholding the constitution, and i work closely with law enforcement during my term of service keeping communities safe. i created the first human trafficking courts in north carolina, which provides provisions for victims to keep them safe and hold violent offenders accountable. i have been one who fully believes we absolutely must fund the police, because they absolutely need funding to

protect themselves and our communities while we're also funding ways to stop the violence. congressman budd on four separate oh caucuses voted against funding police for them to be able retain law enforcement officers to recruit and fight our opioid crisis. so he is the one who has been voting in opposition of funding the police, and he's also one who believes that the ones who stormed the capitol are patriots. so he's the last person to be lecturing anybody about public safety. he has not at all stood for a safe north carolina. i have. worked hard on it and the crux of my service in north carolina, and i ask your viewers if they would like to have more information about my campaign and i hope to they do they will go to cheribeasley.com.

>> talk about abortion and in your race and across the country is the economy. 41% of respondents in north carolina that is there are number one issue. the others pale in comparison. inflation is still high, even though unemployment is low. what do you propose to do about that? >> you know it is, willie. we have been to all 100 counties in our, ninth largest state in our nation, and everybody talks about feeling the pain at the pump. the cost of prescription drugs and everything in between and want to know the next senator will fight hard to lower costs. my opponent voted against lowering prescription drug costs while taking thousands from big pharma. voted against lowering cost of gas, while taking thousands of dollars of corporate money from big oil. we need someone who's going to fight for north carolina to lower costs, and part of what we really need to go focus on our

economy and making our goods here in north carolina and in this country so we're really optimizes and manufacturing in tech industries here, and at the same time leveraging and building a strong economy here in this country. that's what we need to focus on and aagree with folks here in north carolina and across the country, we must fight to lower costs and the senate has an obligation to do that. >> democratic nominee for united states senate in north carolina. cheri beasley, who has made this race very tight down the stretch here. justice beasley, thanks very much for being with us this morning. we appreciate it. >> thank you, willie. >> all right. >> mika? in light of that, joining us now white house editor for politico sam stein and symone sanders townsend. haven't seen you since you have gotten married. congratulations. >> thank you very much, and good to have you on "morning joe." start your your polls, though, especially hearing from a candidate and these issues

especially abortion and others that democrats have to go on. how is it looking a month, 27 days now, before the midterms? are we there? >> we're close. >> go time. >> the polls basically tell the story of a very difficult to understand election. generic poll saying democrats is low. president biden numbers ticked up. polls so democrats coming home not because independents are grafting towards president biden. then a weird setter issues. inflation and the economy top of issues. and polled side issues, too, as well including marijuana pardons, which have become a new electoral driven by taking action and abortion, of course, one of the most important issues democrats are pushing right now. we found widespread support for

marijuana. i don't know if it's a voting issue, perhaps the youth of america, and i think i'm still a part of the youth of america. be honest. everyone is smoking or eating marijuana at this point. 23% oppose the action. we all knew this was a huge popular issue. a matter of time before biden took a stance on this and seen popularity across the board. 82% of democrats strongly support. 63% of independents support it. 46% of republicans strongly support it. the types of actions the white house hopes will juice turnout among people who otherwise were not going to go. >> it could. my question, because if you look at that and hear, you know, some people are angry about abortion and they are fired up by certain issues, but they're not, kind of

disappointed in joe biden. i say this carefully. everybody knows my connection. what is it that he is not getting done that leads to this sort of, ah, i'm disappointed? i'm not sure i want him to stand by my -- know what i'm saying? not sure he should run again. name one issue. he's pretty much checking the list off. >> i don't think it's one issue. >> what is it? >> the numbers, nbc news polling about how voters feel about the direction of this country and oftentimes the number is high. in the wrong direction. going on the right track, wrong track. 71% in politico poll. look what's happening. women are -- 10-year-olds made to have babies by their rapist, doctors potentially jailed. you go to the grocery store. things are a lot more expensive. gas is cheaper in some places. hear him talk of insurrectionists, civil war.

contributes to what people feel are happening. it's important to note this election is not going to be about joe biden specifically. it's going to be about, for democrats, their agenda. gotten much done on the agenda. the president will tell you, his own political consultant in very many ways. he ran and won a lot of races, and ran and lost some races. what's most important to him he understands people have to run in their districts. this morning the polling is, i think it's first of all great because you can get a snapshot how people are feeling day by day, week by week. that's important leading up to an election. it shows you district by district is a little different. cheri beasley in north carolina talking, yes, very much so about abortion. a lot about crime. defending her record as the chief supreme court justice in north carolina. go down the road to, up the road actually to ohio. yesterday a spirited conversation about j.d. vance

and tim ryan. j.d. vance literally did an about-face on the debate stage. why? because his stance on abortion is not popular, but go to other places across the country, republicans are digging their heels in, cough, cough, georgia. >> ah. georgia! oh, my god. do we go there now? >> hmm. >> i guess we could. i mean -- >> something as fascinating going state by state by state and it's all over the place and reminds me, actually, not of 2008. huge democratic year in 2010. huge republican year -- reminds me of 2014. remember hour tight 2014 was? didn't know which way north carolina would go or so many other races. think about it. arizona, i think that's -- may be safe for democrats right now. nevada. whoa. not safe for democrats. looks like they could lose that seat. colorado safe. then go to wisconsin. that's close. ron johnson doing pretty well. pennsylvania looks like it could

break democrats' way. north carolina, just straight down the middle. don't know which way that's going to go, and georgia, the same thing. you sit there and you look and go, how exactly is herschel walker winning to points of anybody? let alone the pastor of ebenezer baptist church. negative partisanship i guess. this could break either way. right? in the senate. the house, it looks -- >> trends of pretty much saying the republicans will take over especially such a slim democratic majority now. the analogy is right. people remember that race. it was -- we didn't know when way that one was going to go up in the day of, basically and of course broke heavily towards republicans. you could cake up day of a the

held on or lost three, four seats from majority. that type of election. my question is, knowns are twofold. one, polling. obviously, don't trust it, because it led us astray so many times. i just said that, telling on myself. >> that's okay. >> and cynicism have towards that. two, more comfortable as a et voing populace with tickets floating these days? not the norm in recent elections. look at those georgia numbers, people seem comfortable voting for the republican ticket and not her vol walker. yes, still in the game. but he's nowhere near where other republicans on the ballot are. >> outside of maine, still remarkable. what was done in maine. >> yes. >> people just don't split tickets anymore. do they? >> i think we have, perhaps, in georgia, also perhaps in pennsylvania. a lot of folks saying, i'm not going to -- republicans, independent voters saying i

really don't like doug mastriano, but i'm going to vote for mehmet oz. shapiro/oz voters. >> and pennsylvania. for a guy who lives in a jersey mansion and votes in turkey. >> makes no sense to me. can i say one thing about georgia, though? >> yes. >> turnout important and georgia specifically could look at a runoff. my own personal prediction we will not know who has won this race on november 8th. likely learn that december th, which a runoff would happen. december 6th. plus 50 in georgia. >> what will republicans do with that. >> her vol walker is -- hoar -- herschel walker is not strong in a runoff. >> herschel walker aside, why is warnock not holding strong?

i think the fact is you cannot overlook herschel walker is a household name lever amped in georgia. >> true. >> mika, with you. done things but a households name and aa celebrity and peop are not easily going to welcome him. >> and by the way, a great thing to underline for people that don't know. i mean, i was at alabama in 1980 when herschel walker, you know -- won the heisman trophy next door in athens. won the national championship for georgia. i think for the first time. and -- he's far more famous in georgia, that name, than donald trump ever was across the united states. >> exactly. >> right. he's really -- other than hank aaron, he's been the biggest sports star of the last --

>> the biggest sports star. georgians feel like think know him. people grewk up with herschel walker and why the october 14thhy -- >> a lot of people know him. >> and ranpe in the new haven district. >> something like that. ne and the show streams on peacock. great to you have on the show. coming up, a direct hit from 7 million miles away. we have the results from nasa's missionas to move an asteroid. nbc's tom costello joins us, next. is s

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explore your rewards today. xfinity rewards. our thanks, your rewards. oh, yeah, baby! come on! >> awesome. >> come on. you know, when we saw the movie "armageddon" we just did, thought it was science fiction. didn't we, sam? >> i mean, yeah. >> bruce -- come on! it worked. >> it worked. >> i mean, they didn't have to get oil drillers, that we know of. you know? but still. i can't believe it worked! >> it works. getting our first look at the results of nasa's d.a.r.t. mission where they attempted to change the orbit of an asteroid by smashing a spacecraft into it. not making this up. >> no, we're not making this up. just laughing. >> moved by aerosmith.

>> i liked aerosmith. >> is willie there? willie -- come on, man! >> at the post, yes. >> at the post, man. >> let's talk aerosmith. i mean, "armageddon," steven tyler. you know, it's like -- it's like that scene in -- in -- the little last "star wars" it's true. harrison ford goes, it's true. all of its true. >> "star wars." >> you can't imagine any other anthem to go with that movie. can you? while on the topic, recommend, wait until after the show. go to youtube. ben affleck's dvd commentary, tears apart the entire plot. and he says, why are we teaching oil drillers to become astronauts which you can just teach astronauts to drill? wouldn't that have been easier? >> having a good time. the times. >> and it was a ridiculous plot.

>> bark to the d.a.r.t. actually worked.

at the end of the day, that's what it's about. you have examples throughout the country about all of those things. >> willie, what's so

interesting, i always -- we learned what james carville said, it's the economy, stupid. people usually argue americans vote their pocketbooks and their wallets. that's what drives them. i got into congress in a year when the economy was pretty good. it had turned around in '94. it wasn't about the economy, stupid, it was about one cultural issue after another cultural issue, about this 1960s draft dodging guy that was president of the united states and was going to radicalize america. that was when people went to vote, they weren't voting on the economy, and i'm just curious, is that going to happen again? now they look at what they consider to be the radicalism on the far right. is that going to override the economy? that's really the question of the moment. >> it has been interesting to see in our polling at msnbc, democracy sneak up to become the number two issue.

the economy far and away, we just talked about it in north carolina, sit the number one issue. but democracy, the questions about do we honor the results of elections, will people be put in place, governors, senators, who honor the result of the election or who call it into question. some of them have said openly, jonathan, arizona comes to mind, that we're not only going to not honor the result of 2024 if joe biden wins, but some of us want to look at 2020. they can't do that legally, but they're making it clear to the base that yes, democracy should be on the ballot, but they're willing to change it in a way that gets us away from our foundation as a country. >> so many republicans are giving life to this fear. nevada wants to organize secretaries of state around the nation to do that, to go back to 2020 and reinstall donald trump as president. thankfully, the constitution does not allow that, but it points to the dangers ahead.

there are so many democrats and some republicans who express worry that a certain big lie candidates are elected this time around, that they won't be able to trust the results of 2024. they believe their votes may not be counted. that even if their candidate wins, that person may not be installed because they may not be certified as the winner because of these secretaries of states and governors. so democracy is a significant and growing issue here, as well as, of course, the economy. i'll just make one final point. there's been some growing group think in recent weeks that has faded as an issue, that peaked over the summer after the supreme court decision and that's not what is on voter's minds. we see all these new voters register, particularly women. and democrats are hopeful. these are first-time voters who donald trump was pretty good at getting in '16 and '20. he got people to register

because they were drawn to him. this time a lot of women will be drawn and republicans crossing party lines. democrats are hopeful there will be a surge in november. >> we want to get chris in on the -- his home state, pennsylvania, on the senate race there. the democratic nominee john fetterman is opening up about the stroke he suffered earlier in the year. in a new interview with dasha burns, he addressed concerns about his health and discussed why he has not shared medical reports. we will note because of his issues with auditory processing, fetterman was provided these questions in closed captioning. you'll see him reading them. >> voters deserve to know your status now. >> being in front of thousands and thousands of people, and having interviews and getting around all across pennsylvania, that gives everybody and the voters decide, you know, if they think it's really the issue. >> but the voters aren't doctors.

look, you have styled yourself as the no [ bleep ] candidate. that's why a lot of people are drawn to you. sometimes that's easy, and in moments like this, that gets tested. so why not follow through on that and be fully transparent and release that information? >> i am putting everything tested. i am being out and being tested day in and day out. you know, if my doctor teams already said that i'm fine and i'm ready to go on that, then i'm not really sure that's much more beyond transparent. >> and we're going to talk to dasha burns later in the show about that interview with john fetterman. chris matthews, what is your read on the state of this race? dr. oz has been closing ground and how much the stroke suffered by john fetterman might play with the voter, saying i don't love dr. oz but i have concerns about fetterman's health. >> you're saying it in the right

way, because there's no support for dr. oz. he's a weak candidate, he comes from new jersey. the joke is, he's crossing the bridge just like everybody else coming from down the shore. but this thing about dasha and her interview was wonderful. she was soft, she was reasonable, and she asked reasonable questions of a guy who cannot answer the question because he has to look at the monitor. this is a great question. if the republicans are smart, they'll say how is this guy going to debate for pennsylvania on the senate floor? is he going to bring a monitor with him? they can be really rough. so far, they're hitting him on crime, and even my brother was saying, i'm not going to a phillies game, it's too dangerous to go downtown. there's a lot of that talk in the suburbs. so they'll tie him to crime and the long-term prisoners that he defended and tie him up with that. but still you have a problem

with oz being from somewhere else, from jersey. >> it's going to be a real challenge, a real challenge. the philly suburbs, which have been moving in the democrat's direction, especially since 2016 in a dramatic way. crime is going to be an issue in the philly suburbs. of course, philadelphia, they're most likely going to still break dramatically for democrats. but this is where democrats need to worry, so that is one issue. the second issue, though, is, sam, john fetterman obviously struggling, comprehending being asked, so he has the closed captions. but you can tell he was struggling to find the words in the interview. >> it's interesting. so i think if -- what's the word, you look at this and you can grab your own conclusions. i looked at that interview and i saw a person who was struggling,

but he admitted he's struggling. he's not hiding it. he said i need closed captioning because i went through a traumatic -- you can say this person will have trouble debating both on the stage and the u.s. senate. or you can say, this is someone who, like a ton of other people, has a health condition and is still grappling with it, and i can relate to that. i think in terms of simply operational campaign matters, yes, i think republicans can have made an issue of this, and have brought it up in smart ways and sometimes in overly blunt ways. i think this may end up helping fetterman in one important way -- the bar is really low now for his debate. i mean, really low. >> in two weeks. >> if he gets up there and can manage to stand toe to toe with oz, albeit with the help of a

closed captioning device, i think he can get out of this and say all right, he's assuaged my concerns about his health and can seven in the senate. and there have been a number of people -- >> hold on, hold on. you're on my show. you had your five minutes. >> there have been in recent memory, at least four u.s. senators who have suffered strokes and gone on and served. that's a valid thing to note for here. tim johnson, mark kirk, and others. obviously, everyone's stroke is unique and some suffer more than others. but this is not a crippling condition. you can seven in the u.s. senate if you have a stroke. it doesn't mean voters shouldn't consider it, and i want him to release more health information as a journalist. >> i don't disagree. i think people are going to be empathic. a lot of people have health conditions. >> i thought it was going to be

worse than it was, and by and large, his answers were coherent, he's speaking in full sentences. he occasionally struggled for a word, but it was not all the time. he made a point, he pointed out he was cognizant aware to say there is an example how the stroke affected me. he says his doctors say he will get -- he is getting better, and that between now and january when he will take up his seat, he will have made more progress. >> this is where he can do better, release more information from the doctor. >> i think he has to be asked by his people in the back room. you've got to prepare a statement to the people of pennsylvania. you've got to talk to them. you don't have to have a caption device. you're going to have to tell him your words why you want to be the senator and why you're table to do the job. he has to forget the technology. the debate, if he needs this

scripting and everything -- by the way, there's another part of this race, that's josh shapiro. this guy, mastriano has been attacking him for sending his kids to religious, jewish schools, as if that's some awful thing. how many politicians send their kids to private schools? he used that as an excuse to bring up the religious issue. i always thought mastriano was crazy, that it's a religion issue. he's playing it here and it's not going to work. pennsylvania elected a lot of statewide officials, it's been going on a long time. >> rendell won one or two elections. >> this is not an issue that is legitimate. >> i was with biden on labor day when he went to pennsylvania, and i talked to voters, because fetterman was there. you talk to voters who have been excited about this man for a

long time. he's a no bs guy, voters love that about them. but there were voters who said he was slower. others said my grandmother had a stroke, now she's fine, giving him a lot of leeway. >> it's called life. the interesting thing, he has a health condition, it's really serious, clearly. and it happened the middle of the campaign. you know, i would suggest that he capitalized on it and says this is my health condition. here's what my doctors say. by the way, they're real doctors. unlike my opponent, who is, you know, a shyster, who sells snake oil. you know, just go with the truth. >> yeah, you know, the key is being transparent. he has to embrace this, and he has to say, i have a problem communicating, problems communicating. but i still am processing in my mind. i'll vote the right way and represent you correctly. but you know, willie, we show

the split screen of fetterman with his opponent, dr. oz. and i just sat there thinking, donald trump has been the worst thing for the republican party for six years now. just think, if trump hadn't gotten involved in that race and you had dave mccormick right now, with the problems that fetterman is having, this race probably would not be close. you go to georgia, herschel walker. i mean, the only thing that's keeping the democrats close in a state that right now is breaking hard right. arizona. the same thing. blake masters. it is -- i really thought coming into 2022 that we were going to -- mark kelly was going to lose, because he underperformed

so dramatically in his final numbers against a really weak republican incumbent back in 2020. but it's donald trump. i can't say this enough. if you're a republican, don't be mad at me. be mad at donald trump. don't blame me for saying this. trump, just like in 2020 when he made chuck schumer the majority leader, he's keeping all these races close. >> yeah, dave mccormick, a highly successful businessman and military veteran might have had a better shot than the tv doctor from new jersey is what you're suggesting. even though it is close, and dr. oz has a real chance to win that election. but my god, look at georgia. herschel walker, and now republicans in georgia are saying it out loud, the lieutenant governor says, let's just drop all the nonsense. herschel walker is running because he scored a bunch of touchdowns in the '80s and because donald trump loves him,

drafted him on the new jersey generals in 1984 or '5, whatever it was. that's his guy. and no one in the republican party in georgia or nationally had the guts to say, well, donald, you're not president any more. we really want to win this race, we have a bunch of other candidates that have a better shot against raphael warnock. no one will cross donald trump. so you're right, the problems in many of these races go back to donald trump. but also the weakness among republicans who, from day one, since donald trump came down the escalator, have been terrified of crossing it. >> you know, we have a san francisco republican that coined a new phrase, you know, running in ohio. we have a new jersey republican running in pennsylvania. the trouble is, they're all running in the wrong state. >> so as political analysts try to figure out how different demographic groups will vote in the midterms, we're looking this morning at another group who could have the biggest influence in the outcome of the election.

those who simply don't vote. nbc news correspondent shaquille brewster joins us from milwaukee, wisconsin, with that part of the story. shaq, what did you find out? >> reporter: good morning, mika. we often look at elections in terms of those voting blocs. you heard the terms before, working class votes, suburban women, but we likely know the most influential voting bloc of this cycle, those who voted two years ago in the presidential election but staying home in november. it goes to a range of voter types. i want you to look at what we know about the power of those midterm election nonvoters. 23-year-old jake will likely be the largest voting bloc. a registered voter in wisconsin,

two years ago casting his first ballot after seeing protests outside of a biden campaign event in his small rural city. but in this year's midterm elections, he might stay home. do you plan on voting in november? >> umm, i would like to, but i can't guarantee that answer right now. i would like to learn a little bit more, but i don't have the time. >> reporter: since 2000, 60% of eligible americans cast a presidential ballot on average. during midterm years, average turnout drops to just 42%. a majority, about 150 million americans, remain silent in our representative democracy. >> do you plan on voting in november? >> no. >> why not? >> i don't want to. >> i want to be an informed voter and i don't feel like i am. because the commercials don't help with that. >> reporter: a 2020 study of 12,000 so-called chronic non-voters shows the group tilts only slightly toward democrats.

but includes more women and minorities, it's younger, and has lower income levels than active voters. do you plan on voting in november? >> not necessarily. i don't see the direct effect it has on the community i live in. >> reporter: he says he participates in presidential races to please his mother and grand parents who fought for his right. but he usually skips midterm years. >> my sister gave me the sign. >> reporter: his sister recently helped lead a car parade through milwaukee to register voters. >> it's harder for me to convince people to vote when they see the decline in our community. >> it easy definitely easy to vote. it's just when you check that box, you walk away feeling like nothing is going to change. >> reporter: non-voting citizens, a group that's large and powerful but not immovable. our latest poll showing voter

enthusiasm is at an all-time high. >> you didn't vote in 2020, but you plan to vote this time around? >> yes. >> what is shifting? >> being older, seeing how everything really impacts me. >> reporter: going back to that study that was referenced this that report, one potentially alarming point that they raise is that the emerging electorate, the generation z, they are less interested in political discussion and participation. so at a certain point, something has to give. you'll have a new generation of people coming in, less willing to participate as the issues continue to grow. >> nbc's shaquille brewster, thank you very much for that report. interesting and a bit depressing, because you want people to get out to vote. and young people we saw a few weeks ago, not even knowing the midterms were going on.

>> it's amazing. >> the distrust in the institutions. >> that's what you heard there. >> they see both parties as the same. so for them, when we're all talking about this is a choice, this is about choices, the two candidates are there, you have to choose one. they're like, well, they're the same thing. while that is not always true, that's what you're hearing from voters. when i was in georgia talking to young black voters, they were saying i voted in 2020. i gave joe biden and kamala harris the white house. i gave you -- especially in georgia, we gave you two extra senators. and they have not seen the work on things they want done. whether or not that is realistic, those expectations, that is what you hear. and this is something that democrats and republicans are going to have to grapple with. >> chris matthews, always good to see you. thank you for coming in. eugene daniels, thank you as well for being on this morning. still ahead, joe biden insists we are not heading

toward a recession. >> really? >> and even if we are, it will be a short one. we'll be joined with whether those comments make sense economically. plus, a report from russia after eight people were arrested in connection to the weekend's attack on a bridge to crimea. and later this hour, two of the stars from hulu's hit series "the handmaid's tale," will join us to talk about the new season. we're back in just a moment. in. [ sneezing ] are you okay? oh, it's just a cold. if you have high blood pressure, a cold is not just a cold. coricidin is the #1 doctor recommended cold and flu brand. specially designed for people with high blood pressure. be there for life's best moments. trust coricidin. we believe our military heroes deserve a company who will fight for them just as they do for us.

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in ukraine, crews are still assessing the damage and working to restore power from widespread russian missile attacks. of course, they started two nighs ago. russia carried out at least 28 more missile strikes yesterday compared to 84 on monday.

according to ukraine's military, roughly half of the missiles yesterday were neutralized by air defenses. the missiles yesterday struck energy infrastructure and civilian areas. in zaporizhzhia, emergency workers were seen trying to extinguish fires after missiles destroyed several residential buildings. and in lviv, the mayor said yesterday a third of the city was without power due to a rocket strike. in an interview with cnn yesterday, joe biden was asked about the likelihood that russian president putin would use a tactical nuclear weapon in ukraine. >> i don't think he will. but it's irresponsible for him to talk about the idea that a world leader of one of the largest nuclear powers in the world says he may use a tactical nuclear weapon in ukraine. and the whole point i was making was, it could lead to a horrible outcome and not because anybody

intends to turn it into a world war or anything. but once you use a nuclear weapon, the mistakes that can be made, miscalculations, who knows what would happen? i think he is a rational actor that miscalculated significantly. i think he thought he would be welcomed with open arms, that this was the home of mother russia in kyiv and he would be welcomed. i think he just totally miscalculated. >> russia says it's arrested eight people in connection with a weekend attack on that bridge to crimea. security services said this morning five held are russians while the others are ukrainian and armenian. let's bring in chief international correspondent kier simmons from moscow. what more do we know about these arrests today? >> reporter: it was an announcement by the fsb here in russia, the successor to the kgb, extending their

investigation very, very quickly. surprisingly quickly some might say. announcing just before a major speech by vladamir putin in moscow that they have traced the root of a truck they say was responsible for the explosion, saying the explosives were wrapped in plastic, saying the intelligence director of ukraine's defense ministry was behind it, that the truck went by a circular route around the black sea, then into russia from odesa in ukraine, and then crossed that bridge and that explosion. not -- ukrainian television describing that as nonsense. again, the fsb make thing announcement before a speech by president putin here in central moscow. that intelligence that you see, this security agency here in russia, would have been very keen to get conclusions quickly.

they say they have arrested five russians, eight people in total. the others being ukrainian and armenian. >> and of course, putin using the attack on that bridge as justification for two consecutive days of attacks on civilian targets. you just heard from joe biden last night saying he believes that vladamir putin miscalculated with his war in ukraine. has putin responded to that? >> reporter: no, not directly. again, we are waiting for putin to make a speech. we have heard from the kremlin spokesman this morning. he says it's not a response to joe biden, he says the goals of the special operation remain the same, and are even more relevant now. if you like, russia just doubling down. he also confirmed, if you like, president biden, saying there were no negotiations, and the russians saying there are no initiatives from the russian or

american side to organize contacts at the highest level. and then he does also have to say -- have something to say about those nuclear threats, including those thinly veiled threats from putin himself. russia saying we regret that western powers participate in nuclear rhetoric every day. so the russians saying, we're not threatening nuclear war, it's you in the west making these threats and amping up the rhetoric. >> nbc's kier simmons, thank you very much. and david, you are just back from a trip to ukraine. coming up, we'll talk about david's new column and how ukrainians define their enemy, next on "morning joe." n "mornin"

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let's talk about your column yesterday, and it's a bit disconcerting, because you would hope the ukrainians would look at this as a putin problem and not a russian problem. you would hope that dan dresser would be right, that this war is about vladamir putin and not about an existential threat to russia. that's not exactly -- >> joe, i was in ukraine over the weekend. i left the day before the terrible bombing that we've seen in the last two days begin. but i was struck that in almost every conversation with ukrainians, when i would ask this question, what is this

fight about? is it against putin, which implies that you could find a way to end it if putin would step back, or is it something more fundamental? is it about russia? russia's fundamental contradictions with the ukraine that's become western? everybody would answer that it's with russia, that russia needs to be treated the way germany was after world war ii. it needs a period in which root and branch, the elements of the imperial attitude that has supported putin in this war, are taken apart. and it's a much more -- >> talk about the consequences of that. because of course germany in the spring of 1945, didn't have nuclear weapons. >> what i said last night at the cathedral is i see two fundamental things in contradiction. after world war i, we know that a harsh, punitive piece on germany helped lead to world war

ii. so that tells us to be careful with russia. but world war ii ended with the unconditional surrender of germany and japan, and that on that total defeat was built the miracle of postwar reconstruction. so i've been thinking, unless this imperial, this vicious thing that is in putin's style of governance, unless that's really destroyed, we're just going to postpone the next war. and that worries me, because we're in a situation where it's going to be much harder. biden wants a negotiated settlement. i didn't hear that in kyiv from anybody. >> right. >> you know, we saw yesterday -- a couple of days ago we played on the show the prime minister, i believe, of finland. they said what's the off ramp here? and she looked at the camera, and said well, the off ramp is every russian troop leaving ukraine.

and that's not just her. if you talk to the leaders in estonia, in latvia, they look at us like we're fools. they say we've been warning you about this for a decade. and you haven't listened to us. you listen to us now. >> yeah, and that's what you hear from central european diplomats very strongly at the moment is what they're telling nato and the g7, as well. the counterquestion i hear from more western european leaders and diplomats, we don't know what it looks like for a country that has a nuclear weapon to lose. we've never had that before. we've never had a situation in which a country is humiliated, has lost, says it's lost -- >> and continues to humiliate itself. >> and i guess that's why we are in the process. how far do we push putin? we hope some people around him will say, we're going to move you out and something replaces that.

>> right. >> but what replaces that is not clear. coming up, joe biden says there will be consequences for saudi arabia after the kingdom cut oil production. >> no fist bump next time. >> yeah, i don't think so. will there be consequence ps on wall street too? that's the question. that's just ahead on "morning joe." e. ♪♪ subway's drafting 12 new subs for the all-new subway series menu the new monster has juicy steak and crispy bacon. but what about the new boss? it looks so good it makes me hangry! settle down there, big guy the new subway series. what's your pick? my name is wendy, i'm 51 years old, and i'm a hospital administrator. when i talk to patients you can just see from here up when you're wearing a mask. and i have noticed those lines beginning to really become not so much moderate but more severe. i'm still wendy and i got botox® cosmetic.

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watch it, lydia. forgetting yourself. thank you. give me a lot to think about. >> you're welcome, commander. and i will leave you to it. >> wow. a scene from the newest season of hulu's hit show "the hand maid's tale." joining us now, two of the stars from the show, bradley whitford and ann dowd. wow, congratulations on such an amazing success with this show. i guess, ann, i'll start with you. what can you tell us for viewers who are getting ready for season five, who haven't seen it yet, what they can expect? >> i'm stuck on that last scene, which i hadn't seen before. >> it was pretty good.

>> she really gives it to him, he's deserved it for quite some time. love you, bradley, you know, but enough is enough. >> i love you. >> i would say, honestly, this season is extraordinary and as vague as this is, hold on to your seats. because things go on that honestly, having been in it for five years, i was stunned when i read these scripts. truly. things you never imagined, but, in fact, follow right along perfectly. truly extraordinary, to our writers and directors, i -- it's phenomenal. phenomenal. >> okay! hold on to your seats. >> that is high praise. from dalton, georgia, sounds like they are in high cotton. so, bradley, there are so many people who have worried,

including the author of the book, margaret atwood, that the united states and other western democracies have been moving in a precarious position. i'm wondering how do the events of the last three, four months, the taking away of a constitutional right that women have had for 50 years, i'm curious, how does that frame this season? how does this frame this project for you? >> well, unfortunately, the parallels seem to only expand. i read this book when i was going to acting school in 1985. and it seemed pretty relevant then. if you had told me that something like a dobbs -- that the supreme court was going to

take away women's rights to make decisions about their own bodies, i never would have believed you. you know, margaret is very clear. i heard her talking recently. i think all of our lives, joe, mika, willie, we have lived in a world with a very dangerous assumption in this country that democracy is inevitable. and margaret's point is, it's not. it's something that needs to be intentionally protected and we don't get a democracy, we've got to make one every day. i was listening to you guys earlier and i'm from wisconsin, and shaq brewster's report breaks my heart, because if we don't choose to participate in a democracy, we're sentenced to a gulag dictated by those who do. and that gets very, very, very

dangerous. margaret has just been very aware of these dangers for a very long, long time. >> so ann, this is a compliment, but this show is a hard watch, because it is so intense. it is difficult. and especially in the early seasons, when it came out, it came out soon after donald trump had taken office, there were obviously people who drew comparisons, like, hey, this is where -- this could be our future here. but i wanted you to expand a little bit on where bradley was just going there, trump is now out of office, but there are different threats, different threats to people's rights. is the show inadvertently or not, speaking to those worries? >> your question is? what are you asking? >> i'm asking you if, we saw the parallels, the fears that exist with the show when trump took office. trump's out of office now, but obviously, as just touched upon,

people have lost a right they've had protected by the constitution for 50 years. how much of that informs how you create the show, to try to touch upon current events and worries? >> i'll tell you, the only way to survive going to work every single day is to leave the world out of it. because the thing that we do, and forgive me if this sounds trite, i don't mean it that way, but we do make-believe, which is to say, at the end of the day, we go home and there is no one missing an eye and there is no one forced to be pregnant, and no one raped. that's what allows us to do the work and get up the next day and do it again. we are in such a dangerous place in our country, such a misguided place wherent