we've got a lot going on today and we'll revisit this again tomorrow. trump is responding to the january 6th -- >> just a moment ago, put out a statement, 14 pages, he does not address the subpoena. he continues with his lies about the election and he calls the proceedings a scam. no response to yesterday's news with an unanimous vote to have him come testify. >> i was going to say much more tomorrow morning -- >> i think he's afraid of liz cheney. got to be it. >> i could see him being afraid -- >> a lot of people are saying -- people are -- a lot of people are saying that he's afraid of liz cheney. >> she is tough. it appears he didn't even address the charges. it looks like he's ducking her. >> much more monday morning. jose diaz-balart picks up the coverage right now. ♪♪ good morning, 10:00 a.m.

eastern, 7:00 a.m. pacific. i'm jose diaz-balart. we begin this hour are the fallout from the house january 6th's last hearing before the midterm elections. the committee voting unanimously to subpoena former president trump over his role in the attack on the capitol. bennie thompson saying he must be held accountable. >> he is required to answer for his actions. he's required to answer to those police officers who put their lives and bodies on the line to defend our democracy. he's required to answer to those millions of americans who votes he wanted to throw out as part of his scheme to remain in power. >> now, just a short time ago, trump posted a long letter on his social media site criticizing the committee for not investigating the 2020 election and accusing it of ignoring facts about his actions leading up to the riot. but he does not say if he will

comply with the subpoena. the panel also presented never before seen communications from the days leading up to the attack, including a tip received nearly two weeks before the riot about the proud boys planning to march into washington, d.c., while being armed. the secret service responded in a statement saying in part, quote, in the weeks leading up to january 6th, secret service was in constant communication and sharing information with our law enforcement partners in the washington, d.c., area regardless available protective intelligence and open source information concerning potential violence. the committee also showed never-before-seen video of senators calling for help. >> why don't you get the president to tell them to leave the capitol, mr. attorney general, a public statement, they should all leave.

>> with us now to talk about this, ali vitali, "washington post" national investigative reporter, carol leonnig, and joyce vance a law professor at the university of alabama and co-host of the sisters-in-law podcast. the committee says it's unlikely trump will actually appear before the committee. what's the reasoning behind issuing a subpoena? >> reporter: and you read that letter, jose, that he just sent to the chairman of the committee, bennie thompson, where you're right, he doesn't say "yes" or "no," but continues to perpetuate the lie he's been telling over the course of the last year and a half since the 2020 election was lost by him. after multiple hearings where it's clear that trump was the central focus, even as they told other pieces of the narrative around january 6th, the question that we were asking members during that time was, what happens when you do your job successfully and you tell the

public that trump has blamed to be born here for what happened on january 6th? now it seems the committee has found at least one of their answers to that which is going to subpoena him, trying to get more information from him, even though all of them have acknowledged previously in conversations that they know it's a long shot, but this is making it part of the record and that's what we heard from liz cheney yesterday and chairman raskin yesterday evening as well. listen to that, jose. >> we are obligated to seek answers directly from the man who set this all in motion and every american is entitled to those answers so we can act now to protect our republic. >> people have come forward to participate, to try to establish some kind of accountability and reckoning for this nightmare that took place against our country. one would think that a former president of the united states would step forward in order to

volunteer his participation. >> reporter: jose, i'm still told that we expect -- the subpoena to officially be sent early next week. at the same time, though, it also provides a little bit of a blueprint for something that we've long talked about, this idea of if the committee also ultimately pursuing a criminal referral, i think the fact that yesterday's vote was unanimous in subpoenaing the former president gives us a little bit of a road map of what that referral could look like if that's something that they ultimately endeavor to do. >> and, joyce, a grand jury subpoena has the force of law behind it. what does a congressional subpoena have? >> well, congressional subpoenas are far more difficult to enforce. that's one of the lessons that we've learned during this committee process. but it's important to put this subpoena on the record. congress's function here is oversight, getting the public an authoritative version of the truth and they would be remiss

if they didn't seek to speak with trump and former vice president mike pence as well. i think the interesting parallel here is to how a criminal investigation would wrap up. in a case like this, after long, extensive investigation, when you've reached the point where you're ready to charge, which is not a decision congress will make, but one of the things you might do is an extend an invitation to the targets to come and speak to you either privately or in the grand jury, giving them an opportunity to tell their side of the story and that's what's happening here. trump is being given the opportunity to tell his side of all the story and the record at the end of the day will reflect either that he does that or that he simply refuses to come in and talk to the committee. that i think would be a powerful punctuation at the end of this committee process. >> because, i mean, this is the last public hearing that the committee is having. it's at the tail end of it.

but their work continues. >> they're out of time to enforce the subpoena like this. if trump were to come in voluntarily and tell the truth, well, we all know, i think, that that's unlikely to happen. and going through a court process to enforce this would take some period of time. so likely where we are with this, is that we will not hear his testimony, but this will simply become a part of the public record. >> and, carol, meanwhile, the secret service communications, what does that tell us about what was going on inside the agency before and during the january 6th events. >> yes. well, you know, the secret service, ironically, after deleting who knows how many texts on agents' telephones that were exchanged on january 6th and on the days preceding it and the days after, after that incompetent and/or potentially nefarious wiping of evidence

that was being sought by congress, the secret service ironically turned over copious records and internal emails and correspondence, more than a million pages, jose. in those records we learned two stunning things, one, and this was a shocker to me, that the president still planned and wanted and was demanding to go to the capitol after a riot had broken out, after he had been told by his detail leader, we have to return to the white house. when he was there, the secret service was still basically parked outside ready to take him to the capitol because he was still fighting to go. remember the context for that, please, which is by 1:20, when he had returned to the white house, as he's still arguing i should be able to go with my supporters to the capitol, they have broken through police perimeters, they have engaged in arm-to-arm combat and some

police officers had been taken to the hospital for injuries. so this is a melee in progress which he wants to join and is fully aware of the chaotic quality of what's going on on the steps and the platforms outside the capitol at that time. the second thing we learned -- sorry. >> no, no, go ahead. i'm sorry. >> the second thing we learned, jose, from those emails which was also news was that the secret service, like other national security agencies, had a lot more advance notice of what actually happened. warnings that there were threats to vice president pence's life, that there was a targeted campaign by these rally goers to storm the capitol, take siege, and they planned to come with weapons. that was known by the secret

service in chatter that their protective intelligence division was monitoring as early as december 26th, the day after christmas. plenty of time to prepare for the paramilitary siege that actually took place. another important element or sub element of that, jose, is that the secret service knew the morning of january 6th that people were armed. they were monitoring them on the surveillance video. they knew they had weapons, pistols, glocks, assault rifles, and part of the reason such a large group was clambering outside the protest stage area where donald trump was speaking, the secret service concluded they were outside that corral because they did not want to have their weapons confiscated. pretty striking storm brewing as they discussed it in realtime. >> and had a lot of previous information on a lot of this. as this hearing was taking place, the u.s. supreme court turned down trump's request to allow the special master to

review roughly 100 classified documents seized during the fbi search of mar-a-lago in august. what does this mean for trump's efforts in this case? >> well, this certainly should disabuse the former president of any notion that the supreme court is waiting to ride in and save him. it took them only 35 words to deny his request that they intervene. this case is now back at the 11th circuit court of appeals and the 11th circuit which has previously ruled in doj's favor and given doj permission to use the 100 classified documents will now consider the matter of all of the items that doj seized at mar-a-lago. this really is just a normal search in a normal criminal investigation, maybe not normal, but routine, in the sense that doj had probable cause to search a location and to retrieve evidence. what's unusual here is trump's efforts to keep that normal

criminal investigative process from unfolding. now it will be up to the 11th circuit to determine whether judge canon was correct when she restricted doj's use of all of the items it recovered during the search and sent those items through filtering with a special master. the 11th circuit might well rule that none of what judge canon ordered should happen and set this investigation back to rights, we'll know the outcome of that fairly speedily for a court of appeals because the 11th circuit has accepted doj's request that the case be expedited and it looks like it will be ripe for a decision at some point in december. that doesn't necessarily mean that the court will rule quite that quickly. but at that point, we'll be ready for that court to issue its opinion. >> joyce vance, carol leonnig and ali vitali, thank you for being with us this morning. a 15-year-old suspect now in custody after going on a shooting spree that left five dead, including an off-duty officer in raleigh, north

carolina. police identifying the victims earlier this morning. the deceased have been identified as nicole conners, susan, mary marshall, gabriel torres, 29 years old, and a 16-year-old white male. >> joining us now is nbc's priscilla thompson. good morning. what more do we know? >> reporter: jose, good morning. well, we're learning that that officer who was killed was off duty actually on his way to work whenever this shooting unfolded. we also know that there is still a 59-year-old victim who remains hospitalized here at the hospital just behind me in critical condition. there was another officer who was injured -- who responded to this shooting and was injured

but has since been released. as for that 15-year-old shooter, he is also in the hospital here in critical condition. police have not been able to give any information about a possible motive or even been able to say whether this was targeted or random. they're hoping to have more of those answers in the coming days. but here's what they did share with us this morning, they shared that the shooting happened over a two-mile radius. it began in neighborhood streets and then the shooter fled towards a greenway and continued shooting people as he did that. the police here really praising all of the witnesses and people who called 911 and helped them to track the shooter and to get to him because this was an hour's long stand-off and man hunt where people were asked to stay in their homes as officers were out searching for the shooter. they ultimately found him and were able to apprehend him, holed up in a barn.

still, so many questions here today about why this happened and how even that shooter got those guns -- or that gun. jose? >> priscilla thompson, thank you so much. still ahead, a second exclusive interview with a candidate in the critical pennsylvania senate race. what mehmet oz had to say about how his campaign mocked opponent john fetterman. a jury gave the parkland shooter life in prison instead of a life sentence. we'll talk to the father of one person who -- well, lost his daughter in the massacre. calls it a gut punch. you're watching "jose diaz-balart reports." diaz-balart reports. us. right now t-mobile is including apple business essentials so you can easily manage your team's devices. on the network with more 5g coverage. only from t-mobile for business. it's the subway series menu.

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18 past the hour. florida prosecutors filed a motion to have law enforcement interview a juror in the parkland shooter trial after that juror told support staff that during deliberations, she received what she perceived to be a threat from another juror. this comes as we're getting new reaction this morning after the gunman who shot and killed 17 people in marjory stoneman douglas high school in 2018 will be spared the death penalty. a jury has recommended life in prison without parole for the gunman, the jury foreperson said

three jurors voted against the death penalty. family members of the victims expressing shock and anger. >> they are suffering and this result made them suffer even more. >> they said it before, if not now the death penalty, then when? >> we came here seeking justice. we were hoping for justice. and, unfortunately, we didn't get it today. >> how could you not give him the death penalty and i think that that one juror that voted for life is going to live to regret that for the rest of his life. >> pretty unreal that nobody paid attention to the facts of this case. that nobody can remember who a victim is and what they look like. i know every day because i see my beautiful daughter's face around our home in my dreams and

i miss her very much. >> joining us now is one of the parents you just heard from, tony montalto, who's 14-year-old daughter gina was among those killed in the massacre. tony, you know, i -- these are such -- i don't know what kind of questions to ask you other than today, how are you processing what happened yesterday? >> well, we're still trying to deal with the shock, surprise and disbelief. quite frankly how you could look objectively, as the jurors were supposed to, at the facts and let's remember what facts are, they're things that are presented and verifiable by a third party of this case, and come to the decision that was presented and certainly after

such a short deliberation time. three months of trial, barely eight hours of deliberation, i think that's -- somebody might have made their mind made up previously and i think that, again, how can you justify any mitigating circumstance that allows someone to walk into a school, to attack our nation's future by going after students and teachers and say they don't deserve to be punished to the fullest extent of the law. >> tony, so many -- there are so many differences among the families of the victims, but it seems like in a vast majority of cases, almost all of them do agree on the desire to see this person -- i don't want to mention his name -- >> thank you. >> -- get the death penalty.

>> well, we sent our children to school. my daughter walked out our front door on valentine's day with a box of chocolate and a reminder to eat it before it melted. the teachers that went to work that day, they just showed up at work to do their jobs, to help build our future citizens. and to have them not return home to our families was devastating. and then to have quite frankly one juror, who they said was a hard no just to correct that, i think the one hard no led to the others saying, well, i don't have to make a tough choice. to have them justify the way that the killer walked through the halls, pulled the trigger 139 individual times, each time

making a conscious decision to move that finger. it wasn't an automatic weapon. it was semiautomatic. he had to pull the trigger each time, including the time when he pressed the barrel of that weapon up against my daughter's chest, just as he searched the internet for. he got to carry out his plan. he planned, he acquired the equipment, and then he went out and performed this cruel, heinous act of killing 17 people, wounding 17 others, and he would have done more, accept that he said he couldn't find anybody else to kill. it's not my words. those are his words. >> you know, tony, i just -- how do you -- i want to talk about gina. >> well, gina was our first born. she's the one that made us parents. we thought that was a job we would have for life.

she was kind. she was loving. she was compassionate, bubbly and bright. often the first one to reach out to kids in the neighborhood. as i mentioned in my victim impact statements, when gina was 10, she saved the life of a little boy from drowning without being told what to do. she just knew what to do. and i think, you know, it was unfair to the victims when the court had to instruct the jurors to ignore our victim impact statements. when the judge passed rules for the courtroom that said that we couldn't wear pins to represent our kids or the bracelets we've all had to remember them by, we couldn't bring pictures, we couldn't wear t-shirts. there was a lot of restrictions placed on the victims to make

sure that this monster got a fair trial. and by fair trial means, he should be held responsible for his actions. it's not that we should find excuses for the horrific murders of 17 people for an attack on our schools. what kind of message does this send to other students and teachers, or to the next shooter who is out there? you know, we have to find a way to come together to help solve these problems, to come together as an american family. and that's why we created stand with parkland to bring together the middle, to bring together the people who want to listen to one another, find pragmatic solutions and go out and make change. we've been fortunate making a lot of change in florida. we've helped make change on a federal level by passing the bipartisan safer communities act which is an excellent bill for school safety. it provides dollars to secure

the campus, dollars for violence prevention in our schools, it also provides mental health support, creating the 988 national suicide prevention hotline, creating money for more school counselors to help our students before they resort to violence, and then it had dollars for firearms to help states to increase the number of states that have red flag laws or extreme risk protection orders, it had money to protect again the strawman purchases that allow criminals to get weapons. that kind of bill was -- in its name was bipartisan. it is the beginnings of making change. too often we let this prevention discussion fall into the far left and the far right. we have the far left pushing back on things like behavioral threat assessments and other ways to look for people who are exhibiting troubling behavior, we have the right who pushes

back on the firearms piece. just before this, you talked about the shooter in raleigh. i'm going to bet during the investigation he put out a lot of warning signs through his social media. these are the kind of things that a proper behavioral threat assessment will do. in congress right now, we have the bipartisan eagles act named after the mascot at marjory stoneman douglas high school which will provide increased funding to the u.s. secret service national threat assessment center to go out and train throughout this country, to train local school officials, law enforcement and mental health professionals how to work together to do a proper behavioral threat assessment and identify kids that are having trouble before they resort to violence. >> these are -- tony, these are all things that are out there that need to be addressed and i just can't thank you enough for being with us today. i send you all the best and i

just appreciate you spending time with us this morning. >> thank you for still covering this story and, please, let's remember the victims of the parkland shooting. we spent too much time the last three months talking about the shooter. >> indeed. not on this program, you'll never hear his name. thank you. we'll take another short break and we'll be right back. you're watching "jose diaz-balart reports." ing "jose diaz-balart reports. a private 5g network. so you can do more than connect your business, you can make it even smarter. now ports can know where every piece of cargo is. and where it's going. (dock worker) right on time. (vo) robots can predict breakdowns and order their own replacement parts. (foreman) nice work. (vo) and retailers can get ahead of the fashion trend of the day with a new line tomorrow. with a verizon private 5g network, you can get more agility and security. giving you more control of your business. we call this enterprise intelligence. from the network america relies on. discomfort back there? instead of using aloe, or baby wipes, or powders, try the cooling, soothing relief or preparation h.

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31 past the hour. this morning's russia's putin spoke in kazakhstan when he said there was no longer a need for widespread attacks in ukraine. putin also said that the recent mobilization of army reservists should be completed within two weeks. joining us now is iuliia mendel, former press secretary to president zelenskyy. thank you for being with us. i want your reaction to what putin is saying today about no more need for widespread attacks against ukraine at this time. >> jose, thank you for having me. that's a very interesting message that we've heard from vladimir putin. in fact, i was staying in kyiv

through monday, tuesday, wednesday and every day with dozens of missiles that russia was sending to ukrainian -- ordinary citizen towns to civilian infrastructure. at least 20 people died and dozens and dozens of people were wounded on monday when russia attacked kyiv, it was one of the massive -- most massive attacks with missiles. so putin is a liar, obviously that. and what we hear from different sources, from russia and from ukraine, we understand that russia is exhausted. russian army is exhausted, russian people are exhausted and that's why putin wants to have a break to recharge. we're not sure -- actually, we are sure he will be attacking later. we were talking to the commander chief of ukrainian army and he thinks that putin will attack next in 2023. that's the moment when we cannot actually allow russia to

recharge its army and to make the -- back in ukraine. if russia, if kremlin are serious about stopping this war, then they need to withdraw their troops and stop shelling ukraine, especially when we talk about civilian infrastructure. >> yeah, and meanwhile russian state media reports that ukrainians in the russian-occupied area of kherson were told to flee the fighting and are expected to arrive in russia this evening. what does it mean for these people being forced to go to russia? >> good question. i'm staying in many people from the kherson region because this is my hometown. in fact, i have not heard from anyone that they would be interested in leaving kherson to russia. but russia uses every opportunity to take ukrainians to its territory. we know that they are forcefully deporting -- we know they have filtration camps and taken ukrainians in very, very far regions of russia.

and this is maybe some kind of a soft power just to offer ukrainians to leave. but this does not mean that they will offer ukrainians having good life with human rights and we don't know what expect these people when they go to russian territory. from my side, from my sources, what i know, ukrainians still stay there and they're waiting for the ukrainian army to come. last week i was in the front line in kherson and i was talking to soldiers and they're determined to return to kherson at least on the right side of dnipro. >> it's a pleasure to see you. thank you for being with us this morning. we're 25 days from the midterm elections and nbc news has a new exclusive, our dasha burns sat down with the republican senate candidate in pennsylvania, mehmet oz, who is

currently neck and neck with john fetterman. they have their highly anticipated first and only debate upcoming on the 25th of this month. joining us now, nbc news correspondent dasha burns is in philadelphia who got that exclusive once again. what did you learn? >> yeah, jose, earlier this week we sat down with pennsylvania democratic senate candidate john fetterman. now we're hearing from his rival dr. mehmet oz. we talked to him about our conversation with fetterman, crime, abortion and much more. watch. >> when people ask me questions about his health condition, you know what i say, i have no idea. >> reporter: senate candidate and celebrity dr. mehmet oz has been cutting into his democratic rival's lead in recent months, looking to capitalize on lieutenant governor john fetterman's time sidelined by a

stroke that almost killed him. >> reporter: one of your staffers said that john fetterman wouldn't have had a stroke if he had ever eaten a vegetable in your life. you're a doctor. you of all people understand what john fetterman is going through better than most. why would you allow your campaign to mock him like that? >> i have tremendous compassion for what john fetterman is going through. not only do i appreciate the challenges, but i know his specific ailment because it's a specialty area of my mine. >> i truly, truly hope that you do not have a doctor in your life laughing at you. >> reporter: in an effort to pressure fetterman to commit to a debate, the oz campaign released a sarcastic at the same time promising not to hurt john's feelings and offer to pay for medical personnel. >> i accepted responsibility and i deal with issues as they come up, but he has his own set of issues and we should have had a debate already. >> reporter: would you ever talk to your patients like this? >> no.

>> reporter: the two candidates have also been locked in a battle over crime. >> john fetterman supports decriminalizing dangerous drugs. >> reporter: but there may be one point of agreement. >> so you support the president's move there. >> i think the move is a rational move. >> president, we're going to have a lot of fun. >> reporter: oz secured the republican nomination thanks to an endorsement from former president trump. though he's happy to share the campaign stage, dr. oz has recently tried to distance himself from some of mr. trump's extreme positions, including the election denial claims at the heart of the january 6th capitol riot. >> by the time the delegates and those reports were sent to the u.s. senate, our job was to approve it which is what i would have done. >> reporter: he's also distancing himself from the abortion battle, repeatedly refusing to say whether he would support senator lindsey graham's proposed national abortion ban.

>> reporter: can you tell us right now yes or no on that bill. >> i'm giving you a bigger answer than yes or no. i'm telling you i don't want any federal rules limiting what states do with abortion. it should be up to the states. >> reporter: jose, there was more, we were hopes to talk to oz about. we asked for about 30 minutes. the campaign said they had time constraints and we spoke for half that time. we will get to hear from both of the candidates in the first and only pennsylvania senate race debate on october 25th. jose? >> dasha burns in philadelphia, thank you so much. up next, we'll talk to congressman mike quigley about what he expects to see from the january 6th committee going forward. it's a pleasure to see you. we'll be chatting in just a minute. you're watching "jose diaz-balart reports." nute you're watching "jose diaz-balart reports. ♪ will you make something better? ♪

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joining us now is mike quigley. he sits on the house intelligence committee, also the co-chair of the congressional of ukraine caucus. so the committee wrapped up the public part of its investigation, at least for now. what are the lessons learned? >> for me, watching, having been in the chambers where this happened, i was thinking of faulkner of all things. history is not was but is and asking if a government can survive, and i say that because we're coming up to an election because there's about 200 people on the ballot who deny that, you know -- still believe in the big lie about the election. >> are those lessons then not learned? >> apparently not on a large part of our country. again, they were fed this lie by

the president of the united states and those that would back him up. the fact that he was 0 for 62 in the courts seems to be nothing. the fact that most of the evidence that we've seen so far coming out of this committee, it comes from republicans, former staffers, and people who had supported the president of the united states who just came to realize what the truth was and the truth has value if we're going to maintain this republic. >> truth always has value everywhere, right, nowhere more important than here. i want to turn to ukraine. vladimir putin said today, this morning, there was no need for more widespread attacks on ukraine, like the ones this week for now, what do you make of that? >> yeah, it's certainly not accurate, it's putin not being benevolent. these attacks are very, very expensive. one of these missiles can cost

$10 million. they have almost no military value. they're not going to make the ukrainians cow down. this has never happened in history where this kind of civilian bombing changes a public view. it galvanizes it. i think you're going to see even more support with surface to air systems coming from this. he really had no choice. this is indeed more evidence of a desperate putin followed by sham elections, a bungled mobilization, the nuclear threats. it's evidence that he's far more concerned with his far-right, ultranationalists than he is with the public's response to this war. >> and, congressman, russia is using those multimillion dollar missiles, but also iranian-provided drones to help carry out its new spate of attacks on ukraine. as iran deals with protests from women demanding change after a young woman died after being arrested by the country's

morality police, do you think congress or others should take steps specifically targeting what is going on in iran? >> absolutely. and i -- when we get back after elections, it should be one of the first things we do. what can we do to punish the iranian government for what they're doing? for the sake of those who seek freedom in their own country, the fact that they're acting responsibly to help russia in this war. i think the other thing we have to make sure that we do is -- we're sending two of our more sophisticated systems with a commitment to six more. i think we need to look at this in the manner that we protect israel. we need to help provide something of an iron dome over that. so i think we need to punish iran, we need to give ukraine the systems it needs to protect itself against all of these attacks, including those that are specifically to help them

with their drone attacks. >> congressman mike quigley, i thank you so much for being with us this morning. appreciate your time. >> thank you. up next, an up-close looks at the gap, a huge stretch of jungle venezuelan migrants have to trek through to getz to the united states. what we found alongside those migrants. extraordinary pictures. you're watching "jose diaz-balart reports." you're wat diaz-balart reports. internet solutions nationwide. (wayne) for our not-so-small business too. (vo) get internet that keeps your business ready for anything. from the network america relies on. make your home totally you. i did with wayfair. sometimes i'm a homebody. can never have too many pillows. sometimes i'm all business. wooo! i'm a momma 24/7. seriously with the marker?

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51 past the hour. venezuelans are stranded in mexico after the biden administration announced the new major change in how venezuelans attempting to request asylum in the u.s. will be treated. the department of homeland security will use the title 42 pandemic policy, which was reinstituted by president trump, to send venezuelans back to mexico. here's what one venezuelan migrant said after he was sent back to mexico. >> he says the authorities requested him to have a relative in the u.s. and that he is now

stranded in mexico with no money. they took his bags. and the shelters are not taking him in. i want to bring in homeland security correspondent julia ainsley. what is exactly this new policy about venezuelans? >> well, i talked to someone yesterday who said it's like the biden administration has closed the door and cracked a window. there's a narrow path in and he described that. the u.s. now wants venezuelans to have a sponsor in the u.s. it's similar to ukrainians fleeing the war earlier this year. they need someone who can sponsor them here. that's hard for venezuelans. we were just at the border together in el paso when so many venezuelans don't have family in the united states who can do that. so for most of them, they're being shut out. they're staying in cities often very dangerous cities where they don't have anywhere to go. this was supposed to be part of a deal. it is part of a deal between the u.s. and mexico, for mexico to agree to take venezuelans back. but from what we're hearing on the ground, it seems that a lot of these shelters were not

prepared to take in these people who are now frankly desperate. >> yeah, this sounds like mpp light, decaf -- >> even worse in some ways -- >> and no asylum date -- >> sorry. >> tell us. >> with remain in mexico, you would have a date for an asylum hearing, but under this plan, under title 42, it's been happening with central americans for over two years, it means that they don't even get that date. it's just indefinite, you're shutout. it's a covid-19 policy, but there aren't a lot of covid policies that are still in place inside the united states. it exists at the southern border. >> and what about the hundreds of thousands plus of venezuelans who made it across to the united states and requested asylum and that are here awaiting their process. >> officials say that they can continue to play out the process.

as you said, there are about 150,000 of those and they can continue to try to claim asylum, go to immigration court. it's not an immediate work authorization, but they may be in much better shape than those who are coming here now. >> we always learn something from you. thank you very much for being with us this morning. journalists from the "new york times" spent days with venezuelan migrants as they made their way across a dangerous 66-mile stretch of jungle known as the darien gap. they wrote, it became clear that a combination of desperation, the pull of the american dream and social media posts are creating a humanitarian crisis unlike any previously seen in the darien gap. joining us now, julia turkewitz and federico rios, a photo journalist also with "the times" based in columbia. thank you for being with us. julie, you wrote that you saw a humanitarian crisis unlike

anything seen there. what did you see? >> thank you so much for having us. so we just finished crossing the entire route. we were with tens of thousands of people who, as you noted, are fleeing a humanitarian crisis, only to find another humanitarian crisis in the darien gap. we saw a lot of families, a lot of people bringing their children, a lot of people with disabilities, a lot of people who are not prepared for this kind of trek and a lot of people who began this trek for two reasons, one is because they believed that the united states was going to let them in at the end, which by default was the policy until just a few days ago, and second, because of social media. i mean, the way that the darien

gap journey has been shared on social media has just exploded in the last couple of months inside venezuela and also in the countries around venezuela. and people are seeing pictures of their friends, family doing this journey and they believe that they too can do it. i should add to that, that there are a lot of bad actors using social media to promote their guide services and to spread misinformation and make this trip look a lot easier than it is. >> even though, the folks that i've spoken with, i'm so in admiration for both of you to actually do that and to risk it all to cover this important story. folks know that that the darien is a hell. and they know after they get through that ring of hell, they have to go through mexico which is another ring of hell for

many. but they're aware of the dangers of that and yet they're willing to do that. why? >> i think that -- you know, anybody who has talked to anybody who has lived in venezuela, lived through the past couple of years of crisis knows that there are many, many, many, many, many families who are exhausted by the crisis and they are exhausted by not knowing if they're going to have food for their children the next day, they're exhausted by jobs that don't pay enough to buy a week or a day's worth of food. many, many, many venezuelans following the beginning of the humanitarian economic crisis that began in the countries in 2013, many people moved on to places like columbia, peru and have not been able to find decent jobs and decent livings

in those countries. and so pulled by social media, pulled by the belief that the u.s. is going to let them in, they are risking their lives. one of the women that we talked to said -- >> i just want -- go ahead. >> she's not looking for the american dream. she's not looking for some kind of luxury. she's looking for, like, safety and tranquility and to be able to know she's going to be able to send her child to school and feed her child the next day. >> and you captured these extraordinary images. just amazing. what stays with you in the photographic memory of your soul? >> wow, jose, i think what stays with me is the pain of these people. they're suffering, they're having a bad time crossing hell, just as you said. but they're doing it because they dream about a future for

them and their families. that's the goal and that's where the energy comes from, to keep walking through the jungle with blisters and broken bones. it's like -- that's hell. crossing the darien gap is crossing hell. the people aren't prepared. they don't know what they have to face to cross there. they are encouraged by other people doing it. so most of them told us they thought if someone else did it, they could do it. but at the same time, at the end when we asked if they would do it again, most of them said no. i wouldn't recommend it to anybody. >> federico rios, extraordinary work, julia turkewitz thank you so much for being with us. it's an important story that you have covered with such passion and compassion. thank you.

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