lost, but remembers the life she lived. >> what do you miss most about her? >> her smile and her hugs me, she was a lot of fun, catherine. she enjoyed life a lot >> that's all for this edition for "dateline", i'm craig melvin, thank you for watching. coming up on this hour of a man, substance versus psychopath the in a week of consequential swing states, democrats brought a resolutions. republicans on the other hand? fake police badges. plus, trump's with legal battles go beyond january 6th.

new details on doj's latest moves. and what's happening with the new york attorney generals investigation. and cultural collection, un-american museum returns african bronzes stolen during the 1970. that conversation with one of the woman who led the efforts to get one of those statues home. i'm ayman, let's get started! all hands on deck, that is the call that democrats are sending out just three weeks until the midterms. and new today, president obama is answering that call, announcing plans to campaign for democrats in three key battleground states. at the end of the month. georgia, michigan, and wisconsin. all three have critical races up and down the ballots. and all three coincidentally had some of the most consequential debates of the election cycle this week. including last night senate debate in georgia between

herschel walker and the incumbent, raphael warnock. yes, it was weird to see the least. and also reinforce a theme with that we have noted throughout the 2022 cycle. democrats are bringing ideas and republicans? they're bringing nonsense. either a total lack of policies or strikingly incoherent and flat out stupid policies. like, when the scandal prone herschel walker made this argument to georgians who are worried about the cost of insulin. >> i believe in reducing insulin, but at the same time you have to eat right. because he may not know, and i know many people who are on insulin. and if you're not eating right, then you're doing it no good. >> wow. okay. let's see, does herschel walker know that there is a type of diabetes that is not linked to eating habits? anyway, look, the bar was so low for him, last night, that

just showing up and speaking however incoherently was actually seen as a win by republicans. yeah, they actually thought he did amazing. that is no surprise at this point as we said last week, most republicans are ready to support herschel walker no matter how much he messes up. but the most memorable moments of the night for walker was a conversation about policies, no it wasn't even about touching a survey about his public service. it was a stunt. amidst move. pulling out a novelty police badge. a response to senator warnock, likely pointing out that herschel walker misrepresented himself as a law enforcement officers on multiple times, after multiple years. and especially after not addressing those claims with any substance. he chose to look like a 16 year old, using of figure to -- buy wine coolers. in this country, ohio, michigan, to wisconsin.

democrats came prepared to talk about policy and what they've done to american people under this administration and what they can do in the future. things like protect abortion access, gun restrictions, lower health care costs. meanwhile republicans engaged in that performance art. >> j.d. vance raised money for the legal defense fund of the insurrectionists, this is the kind of extremism that we reject. can you imagine one guy say out of one side of his mouth that he is pro cop. and on the other side of his mouth, he is raising money for the insurrectionists who are beating up the capitol police? the one guy who tried to raise money for that got four years in prison. >> the same month as the oxford school shooting where four children were murdered. eight were injured. and the community was terrorized. tutor dixon, posted on her social media a picture of her shooting a gun. with the caption that said, gun control means using both hands.

she is too dangerous and too out of touch to be trusted with protecting our kids. she will put the second amendment before second graders every time. we cannot let that happen. >> what do you find admirable about your opponent? >> no seriously. i do think that the senator has proven to be a family man, i think that's admirable. >> likewise. i appreciate the fact that lieutenant barnes had parents, a schoolteacher. father worked the third shift. so good upbringing. i think what opposes me about that is that with that upbringing, why is he turned against america? why does he find that -- >> we did not. >> i said something admirable. >> what a disgraceful stunt from republican ryan johnson. but you know what? you have to give him credit because at least he showed up. marco rubio has refused to debate val demings in the senate race. adam laxalt is too afraid to

debate the senator katherine. a fundamental part of the small the democratic process that we have in this country. and hearing political candidates debate these issues before voters cast their ballots. republicans are running scared from that and doing a disservice to their constituents but the republicans who showed up to the debate, they are honestly not much better. voters did not hear them discuss the issues, they just watched a bunch of smoke and mirrors, and cheap tricks in a pathetic attempt to distract from their lack of substance and soul. joining me now is my saturday night panel, he is the host of the dean of a dialogue show on msnbc. and the colonists. and michael is a political contributor to the boston globe, and the host of screen share on peacock. good to have both of you with us. we'll get your reaction, we'll start with warnock. which can only be described as a circus last night. what did you make of it? >> of course. well on one hand, herschel

walker is on his own voting bloc. so this can turn out well for him in the long one. but the debate himself? he had memorized a lot of things and regurgitated. sometimes he got it right, sometimes he got it wrong. clearly, the fake cop was off the charts because the constitution has fact-checked in atlanta, and they've fact-checked it numerous times. herschel walker was involved with the fbi? none of that is true. he doubles and triples down on it. and the question is, is it like trump to double and triple down? or is it worse. it's more pertinent to understand. he is not a police officer. he was never police officer. and he saying that he was in the fbi. i don't know with him. does he double down on the lies or does he really detached from reality? that's a motives from the inside. >> and that's a grievous part, because he doesn't know if he's lying. how do you can you put someone like that in office?

michael what do you make of those -- arguing that he effectively won the debate by showing up and speaking in english? that's literally what they think is the only reason that he won. >> look, ayman, he had a really low bar, and i talked to a lot of former republican friends that i worked with on presidential campaigns who were involved with politics statewide. i know the state fairly well. and most of them said to me that they just hope that he didn't screw up in a way that could potentially turn of some hesitant republican voters and the few swing voters in the northern parts of atlanta. cobb county, marianna, smyrna. those are some places outside the city that will vote somewhere red depending on the candidate. and they believe for the most part that he accomplished that. i did think that raphael warnock did a good job. he is a man, he's a pastor, a member of the baptist church. his fellow they're also led.

so it's a surprise to me that the senator articulated his positions very well, but for walker, most republicans didn't want him to scrub too much. and for the messengers that i received, he accomplish that goal. >> so it begs the question, whether it's raphael warnock talking about abortion access while herschel walker flashing his fake, toy police badge. or mandela barnes talk about health care, while ron johnson is pushing conspiracy theory that he was framed. why does it seem like democrats and republicans are on two different planets? democrats and republicans are playing two different games at these debates? democrats want to talk about issues of substance. and republicans are flashing fake police badges and making allegations that the fbi frame them. >> but this is nothing new. this is gone on for decades. when democrats are talking about policy, they come in with a power point presentation. tell you how you're gonna help you life. and republicans say things

like. brown people coming over the border, or banning muslims, or crime is coming. which is their way of talking about race as well. everything is hard, visceral. we try to look ahead. the difference i think is, donald trump is kind of unique. democrats didn't have to talk policy. we -- he's a threat to all of us. now that trump is off the ballot, you see the struggle of democrats. i will say, overturning roe v. wade. gave them a message. gave them a message that's very real. telling women, and men as well, a loss of freedom. so that's kind of helpful. but democrats, we want to talk policy. we want to talk how we help you. republicans are running scared. and -- is the worst human. he has bigotry, covid, the vaccine. he wants to overturn social security. he says january six, he was not afraid, because trump supporters. are not black lives matter. he's bottom of the barrel. ron johnson is sinister. he gets it clear, and he is a bigot. and --

could do what much better than ron johnson. >> michael, there's an elephant in the room and perhaps, actually, the elephant is not in the room. what's up with the republicans who don't even bother showing up in these debates? i'm thinking here of marco rubio. a seasoned politician who you would think at this stage in his career would be comfortable enough in debating anybody. but i guess maybe he is still traumatized by what donald trump did it with him on the debate stage in front of all of america. he never wants to step on the debate stage again. >> oh amen. i think from rubio's perspective, they're looking at this and he appears to be in the league for the most part so they're thinking to themselves, why debate when you're likely gonna win this thing? i like val demings, i have some political differences from her. but val demings reminds me of my grandmother. in the ways and how she views politics. i have a lot of respect for her. but i think florida, just like georgia, with stacey abrams in my view. and with peter o'rourke. some of these, ayman, if i can

be quite honest with you. they are not quite where they need to be for a candidate, or any of those candidates, to actually win a successful statewide campaign. that doesn't mean the states are headed there. because i believe they are. i just think that they're too ahead. so if you look at the rubio camp, you're looking at this and saying you know what we're ahead five or six percentage points. why would we potentially put the senator in jeopardy or risk of having a bad moment which could jeopardize his visual independently swing boner's. they say no. we're not going to do that because we're comfortable in our standing. >> let me push back to that. there's a part of you as a person that serves in this country that says, i want to do the right thing by our democracy. and if our democracy means i field questions from jordan ellis, or moderators. and i debate myself in a civil manner. we are all better off for. not just pushing out campaign ad, speaking to students, choosing the reporters that you speak to. and avoiding any meaningful debate about the topic. so that's why i think marco

rubio should debated. even if he is good. >> yeah, i agree 100 and 50%. we're doing a ton of campaigns and the debating process was a crucial part of being able to connect. not only with your own voters who are likely to vote for you, but also with individuals who may be hesitant. maybe skeptical. even some folks who may not vote for you at all. but what i think we've seen over the past couple of years in the trump era is that the republican party, or at least many republicans. not all but many. don't feel the need, ayman, to have the type of dialogue in public discourse. in the way that we used to. 15 to 20 years ago. >> exactly. >> can i say a quick thing? >> go for it. quick. >> forget a debate thing, over 60% of the republican nominees in battleground states are election deniers. they are democracy deniers. they don't believe in the system. so debating? forget it. they don't when, it's rigged. >> you are absolutely right. guys stick around. we have a lot more to discuss. up next, the biden

administration finally reevaluating its relationship with saudi arabia. but first, richard is here with the headlines. hey richard. >> hey, some breaking news to start. the u.s. state department saying it's closely monitoring a large fire at iran's prison. it's known for housing political prisoners and anti government activists. flames of smoke were billowing into the air. gunfire and alarms also reported on state media. the state department says its priority is the safety of u.s. citizens wrongfully detained in iran. the forces say that it is unclear what caused it. and president biden sent a second straight day campaigning in portland, oregon. he spoke about lowering costs for american families. before attending an event for the gubernatorial nominee, tina. she is in a tight three way we're race heading for the midterm election. we've got more with him and while he dina right after this break! is break! this is the moment.

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one of the defining issues of the midterms. hitting record highs this summer. before mercifully starting to go down in august, but during the summer months when prices were at their worst, we heard a

common refrain from the biden administration. we need the help of saudi arabia to lower those prices. that was, in large part it seems, why president biden meet increasingly differential moves to the oil rich nation. including a controversial visit to saudi arabia to meet with the crown prince in july. and fist bumping with him. biden chose to meet with mbs, as he is commonly known, despite the nation's alleged common abuses in yemen. despite the abuses of women's rights. and biden's own declaration that he would make saudi arabia a pariah over the killing of journalist, kamal khashoggi. but -- maybe for a couple of months, the biden administration thought that it had made the right decision. but then, the other issue dropped. this month, saudi arabia in effect, colluded with russia. the skating to cut 2 million barrels a day of oil

production. that's raising the price of gas. to russia's advantage. in a shocking move, it will worsen global inflation, undermine u.s. embassy to bring down the price of gas. and el the invasion of ukraine. in my guess, it might be a shocking move. but not surprising. and now the u.s. has lost two fold. gas prices will increase, and the u.s. has legitimize a nation that should be, as biden once said, a pariah. there will be consequences for the move, said biden. senate former relations chair argues that those kinds of things should be blocking any future arms sales to the saudis. my panel is back with me to discuss this, and, more the, how much problematic is this for the democrats right before the midterms? >> we'll see of gas prices go up. but you hit a good point there. the democrats, if you've been listening to my show, i have talked about the saudis going to hurt the democrats before

the midterms. they're doing this to help republicans, because they like donald trump. donald trump's first trip in 2017 was the saudis. and they love trump. trump didn't give them any problems for human rights violations. so you have to wonder, is there a political motivation in what saudi arabia's doing? so that's when you see this backlash. let's see, the world impact? i don't think anything changes as we need the fuel. >> michael, how predictive was it that the saudis at least, i don't know if i would say reverse course. but at least appeared to seagull one thing to the u.s. when president biden was there. when they were trying to get that american present to come and visit and meet the crown prince. and here we are a couple months after? >> yeah look. eamonn, i think it was a publicity stunt. this is a guy who is erratic. but think about the cost of the war that he got his country in. you mentioned jamal khashoggi, the washington post writer that

he put her head on. the gentleman's life. i'm not surprised that he is colluding with russia. but i have to tell you aiden, even after president biden is gone. democrats aren't gonna forget this. and i hope the republican administration doesn't forget this as well. i think they're betting on russia, which may lead to some short term victories and winds for saudi arabia. but in the long term, i think they're really jeopardizing the relationship that they're having with the united states. it benefits russia, for the audience state, because it does allow them to provide the resources to the war in ukraine. but again, this is only temporary. what happens when this is over? what happens when two administrations are out of line. says you know, saudi arabia, we're gonna take a step back. not sell arms to you. not work on technology. in other areas where we've been working on for years now, it's not only gonna be a detriment to the crown prince went to the people of saudi arabia. >> the and have to ask you, you and i talk about this a lot. what is something that we do to our standing in the world?

we talk about human rights and yet we bend the rules when it comes to human rights because of our interests. and then in some cases like this, it actually backfires against us? >> it doesn't help us. but, look at the big picture. who is the number one buyer of weapons of the united states of america? saudi arabia. we sell the records and we bad-mouthing that the same time. this is richard nixon in 73. -- until we can no longer depend on fossil fuel, we are going to be stuck compromising our values. so let's embrace renewable energy so we don't have to deal with saudi anymore, or any country that we don't like for fossil fuels. that's my biggest issue here. >> dina -- >> that's not true eamonn. i just want to say. really quickly, i need to agree with the. and that's -- where a lot of manufacturers are looking. if we're gonna walk the walk, amy, and we need to talk the talk. we have more unethical values.

i don't care how many arms were selling. we need to stand by those statements, because the rest of the world is looking to our country to be the leader of freedom, democracy, and justice. >> absolutely. agree with both of you on that. dana, michael, thanks to you both for joining us tonight. of course more coverage of the january six committee's latest hearing and the other legal challenges facing trump. nges facing trump. research shows that people remember ads with young people having a good time. so to help you remember that liberty mutual customizes your home insurance, here's a pool party. look what i brought! liberty mutual!

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mister secretary. i'm gonna call the mayor of washington d.c. and see what other avenues she has. some other departments. what governor, i don't know if you have been approached about this virginia national guard mr. hoyer was speaking to. governor hogan. but i still think you probably need the okay of the federal government in order to come into another jurisdiction. they're just breaking windows. all kinds of, it's really, they said somebody was shot. it's just horrendous. and all of the instigation of the president of the united states. we're trying to figure out how we can get this job done today. we were talking about it earlier. [inaudible] or some other entity. that is under siege.

and let me say you can logistically get people there as you make the plan. >> speaker pelosi took charge in that moment of crisis. which is in stark contrast to the republican conspiracy that she delayed national guard assistance. as a trump mob attacked the capitol. in that video, you see republican steve police watching the speaker call for help. that's interesting, because he is one of the republicans who has lied about pelosi's actions on that day. and he's done it now for nearly two years. joining us now is caroline, and paul butler. both former federal prosecutors. and both nbc legal analysts. carol all-star with you. i want to play more of that never before seen footage showing congressional leaders ungenerous x. here is the. what i think is particularly tense moment between senator chuck schumer and then army secretary ryan mccarthy. watch. >> d.c. has requested the national guard. and it has been denied by

d.o.d.. i would like to know a good reason why it's been denied. i apologize for being so demanding. >> don't apologize. >> please, if the whole campaign's rampage. there's a picture of someone sitting on this chair in the senate. we need evacuation, there are shots fired. we need a national guard component now. >> how does this help build a case against donald trump? could it be used to prove, for example, a dereliction of duty? >> well, this is definitely helpful in terms of showing their reactions of people who were in the capitol at that moment. weather, if there was a criminal trial. you likely have these people testifying live. but this actually shows what was happening in the moment. and those who want to pooh-pooh the seriousness of what was going on that day. this definitely helps. but again, these are

conversations not with the former president. but with others. and so again, that evidence is going to have to center around what the former president knew at the time that this is going on. and there is been plenty of evidence about that elsewhere in the hearings. >> paul, based on that. based on the point that carole just mentioned about the other evidence that had been brought up throughout the january 6th hearings, about what the president knew and what they were doing. what is the likelihood that there will be criminal charges filed against donald trump? >> i think that after the evidence that the health panel has laid out, as a roadmap for the department of justice. there must be charges. amen, trump knew that he lost. and he just did not care. he told mark meadows that that was embarrassing. but as far as he was concerned, the fact that he lost the election did not mean that he should leave the white house. and his coconspirator, roger stone, before the election was talking about violence in the events that trump lost. and that is exactly what

happened on january 6th. the former president was fully aware that armed militants were launching on the capitol even after all of that destruction that began, trump was going to fight and join the insurrectionists. this is impossible evidence from merrick garland's. >> let's talk about some other trump legal woes, friday, the justice department asked a federal appeals court to throw out that florida judges order of appointing a special master in the mar-a-lago case. talk about the significance of this step. and if you think that the doj has a shot at success here? >> yes, i think what the doj did and initially was a smart thing to do. they appealed a narrow part of the district court judge, judge cannon's order. saying that the fbi couldn't use the classified documents, couldn't even look at them as well except for intelligence

purposes pending special review by the special master. the doj appeal just that portion initially. they won. and then the supreme court said that we are not interested. donald trump. in looking at this any further. and they have upheld the 11th circuit. the doj has now gone ahead and said, okay, we won on. that issue. now, in the meantime, the judge has said now it's gonna take even longer for the special master to do his review. it's gonna take until december. so what we're gonna do now is we're going to appeal the whole thing. this whole special master review should be thrown out because this is now truly interfering in our investigation. and i do want to point out, this is not a trial. this is not a criminal trial yet. this is an investigation. and the investigators have to have control over the timing and the substance of the investigation. they can't do it on the court's timeline. so that's what doj is saying now. we need to move ahead. >> paul, that appeal is just

the latest bad news for trim trump. i mean, as they mentioned this week, he was dealt a blow with a supreme court rejecting the emergency request for the legal team to intervene in the classified documents dispute. keeping those classified documents out of the reach of the special master. how big of a blow is this the trump's defense? >> amen, it is so big a blow that even trump's main man on the supreme court. justice clarence thomas, couldn't stand with him. the supreme courts voted pretty eloquently, trump wanted these one or two classified documents the fbi took from mar-a-lago, to go back to the special master for review. for this bogus executive privilege claim. and the court just said no. so now the ball is back in the hands of the 11th circuit. we know that trump keeps losing at the supreme court.

just like he keeps losing and almost every other court. so we know earlier this year, the court told trump that he had to hand over records at the national archives. and the courts also told trump that he had to hand his tax overs to legal investigators. so he thinks that his brief appointees to the court, or his justices, are not like acting like it. >> paul, caroline, thank you for you both for joining us today. appreciate it. coming up next! america finally writing a century old wrong! century old wrong! the first time you made a sale online was also the

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other western countries is no stranger to colonizing and stealing from nations around the world. and that includes the theft of art and artifacts. but this week, some american interfusions took a step towards correcting that horrific trend. >> there is simply no morale,

or lead business. for persistently retaining cultural property. which was looted during the military expeditions. or in an equal negotiations for that matter. >> that was the representative for the kingdom of benign. modern-day nigeria. at the reparations ceremony, posted by the smithsonian's matchable museum of natural art. in 1897, british forces invaded the kingdom of been in what is known as the punitive expedition. it's estimated that thousands were stolen from nigeria during the deadly raid. the branches are centuries old and represents the best examples of art in history. many of these people have been displayed in western museum since that raid. but in a historic, and long overdue moment, the estonian institution along with the national gallery of art, and

the road island school museum. returned the bronzes in their possession back to the people of nigeria this week. where they rightly belong. it's important to put this moment in a larger context. the ceremony took place the same week as indigenous peoples day. formerly known as christopher columbus day. in recent years, finally we began to have a conversation and on his point about the line that christopher columbus discovered america. and the deep damage that he and other european explorers part upon indigenous communities. straggly, the struggle for indigenous peoples is ongoing. just last weekend we learned of the racist and derogatory marks allegedly made by former los angeles city council president. martinez. in conversation with other city officials. in a recording, we hear martinez mark and degrade the people of oaxaca, including black people. including a two-year-old black

son of a council member. she has since apologized, and resigned from her position. here's how these two seemingly historic events are actually connected. if we don't apologize for, and try to correct our racist sins of the past, we're gonna keep making the same mistakes over and over. if we don't acknowledge our wrongs, we're gonna continue to stereotype and mistreat marginalized communities. and part of that, part of that is also acknowledging that these groups continue to face adversity, as we saw and los angeles. it's a perfect, and certainly aspirational. but the goal is little by little to become that more perfect union we often so profess to be. look, the harm that we and other roster nations committed against communities. marginalized communities around the world, can never be fully repaired. but if we hope to end this cycle of disrespect, we have to try. we have to try to write some wrongs. it's the only way that we make progress. you don't get better by

sweeping these issues under the rug, you get better about taking responsibility and taking action. after the break, my conversation with one of the people behind the return of the benin bronzes to nigeria, feldman, the director of the national gallery of art. al gallery of art. or preparation h. because your derriere deserves expert care. preparation h. get comfortable with it. ♪i like to vöost it, vöost it♪ ♪my vitamins can boost it♪ ♪i like to vöost it, vöost it♪ ♪we like to vöost it♪ vöost effizzing, amazing vitamin boosts. ♪vöost it♪

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of art along with the smithsonian's national museum of african art, and the rhode island school of design returned bronzes to nigeria.

here's my conversation with feldman, the director of the national gallery of art in washington, d.c.. >> feldman, thank you so much for joining us. talk to us a little bit about the historical significance of the return of these benin bronzes back to nigeria after they were stolen over century ago by british forces? >> yes. in 1897, it was something that is known today as the punitive expedition of 1897. when the british who were seeking a greater trade arrangement with the king of benign went in and just destroyed the city. set it on fire. it was complete and utter human, and physical destruction. and, in this great tradition that they had in been, of making objects that we referred today as the benin bronzes. they actually were made out of other kinds of materials like

grass. so it's a euphemism, then in brussels is. and we estimate that the british sold somewhere between 3000 and 10,000 of these objects. and brought them back to britain. and then they made their way after that across europe in the united states. and, just this week. we hosted along with the smithsonian, a ceremony to return the benin bronzes in the national gallery position back to nigeria. and it's really a moment for american museums. because we have not yet acknowledged that the theft was really very recent. just 125 years ago. and that it was time to return these objects back to nigeria. >> yeah, and speaking of this week. in your statement at the ceremony. you mentioned that when you began working in our 35 years

ago, the collecting phone of severe meng museums around the world where do whatever it takes to get a great object or a great piece of art in history. what does this return of these sculptures, back to their home countries, say about how the art world is evolving. and how much it still has to go? >> yeah, i have to say. i am so proud to be a part of this profession now. i estimate that there was about 15 years ago that this really started to change in museums. and, a whole new wave of collecting came about. where we really looked very carefully at the provenance of objects. of the past ownership history. and, that process is really that were much more careful today and thinking about objects before they come in. and, it really is a radical change. and it involves also, antiquities objects that perhaps could've been looted

from the ground museums. now take a very careful look. and so i am proud that museums now are really careful about that provenance. >> yeah, in this week. the culture minister of nigeria has called on the british museum to also return artifacts that belong to nigeria. do you think that we will see other museums follow your lead in what the national gallery of are dead and begin to return some of these significant pieces of antiquities? it's such an important debate and i'm not sure whether or not the museums in the cultural world is moving as fast as what some would like. >> i agree. and i have committed several times that i think a lot of the movement to return the benin bronzes have come from university students and emerging professionals who are really demanding a different point of view from museums, a

different standard. and i think that we are at the start of seeing additional returns here in the united states. but i would stress that returns have already occurred in parts of europe. germany has announced a major restitution of objects back to nigeria. and several institutions in the uk. museums are complicated creatures. and we all have different governance structures and policies, and procedures around acquisition. so i think we will see it in fits and starts across the world. but i'm excited to see this changed moment. >> can i add specifically about the national gallery of nigeria? you mentioned this week that this is just the beginning of a working relationship between the two. between the national gallery, and nigeria? can you talk to us a little bit about your institutions

commitments to repatriations going forward? what other aspects of cooperation do you seek with nigeria? >> absolutely. so i am so proud to be here at the national gallery where we have really been leaders in the field for the past 35 plus years in terms of research on provenance and really looking carefully at objects and collections. and often consulted by other institutions about researching the process that we go through. so we will continue to do that. both going forward with acquisitions looking back at the collection. we are a bit of an alarmingly when it comes to the benin bronzes and any restitution. because to our knowledge the benin bronzes is really the only historic work of african art that we have in our collection. so in my discussions with the national museums and monuments commission in nigeria, we have

talked about sharing expertise and practice around museology. around conservation, education. and we recognize that we have as much to learn from them, as they have from us. so we really see it as an exciting moment for future collaboration. >> can i ask you finally caitlin. what do you say to critics who say that returning these risks their preservation in the sense that museums in parts of africa, who would want these bronzes returned. or other antiquities. may not be able to maintain them or preserve them like countries in the west or museums in the west? you >> my response is that these objects, they were stolen from their original numbers. and the beginning premise of do no harm? they were stolen. and so they need to be returned to their original owners. and i have trust and confidence

that their original owners will treat them with the respect that they deserve. >> okay, kaitlan feldman, thank you so much i appreciate the conversation. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ this is the moment. for a treatment for moderate-to-severe eczema. cibinqo — fda approved. 100% steroid free. not an injection, cibinqo is a once-daily pill for adults who didn't respond to previous treatments.

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live at msnbc headquarters and new york city. we've got lots of news to cover, and lots of questions to answer. so let's get started.