my thanks to you for watching the katie phang show this. morning i'll be back next guidance on eight 7 am eastern, and also catch original episodes of the katie phang show on the msnbc hub on peacock, every thursday and friday. do not forget to follow our show on twitter, instagram facebook and tiktok. velshi starts now. >>, going into sunday october the 16th. emily velshi with only 23-day days last until election day.

this midterm election cycle has been unlike any other. historically the party of the sitting president intends to lose seats during midterm elections. and that would appear to be bad news for democrats. who only have a slim majority in congress. but the relative factors at play this year and that has made the outcome of this election cycle very difficult to protect as the supreme court's aggressive decision to overturn roe v. wade for months ago created a sudden radical intangible change to reproductive rights and health care access and the unpopularity of that decision has helped democrats gain a political advantage. the january six committee and its public findings hat could also factor into november's elections and even though the committee has presented plenty of documentary evidence and testimony from witnesses about the central role that donald trump played in spreading the big lie implementing a coup it has not really effective support for the republican party. that is because election denier to trump loyalists of taking over the gop and are poised to

gain even more power in november. according to new york times analysis of more than 550 republican candidates who are vying for congressional seat or a top state executive position, more than 370 of them have questioned or outright tonight the results of the 2020 election at some point in the last two years. and many are continuing to spread those lies. quote, far from fading overtime as many americans had hoped, election lies and misinformation have proved strikingly resilience. the times has for the first time identified more than 240 candidates who are still casting doubt on the presidential elections this year. many of them within the last couple of months. it is incredible that we are still talking about this two years later. there's never been any evidence of widespread fraud in the 2020 election not on election night 's results came in nor during the recounts in the audits in the court cases. the outcome of the 2020 election did not hinge on the results of one state like it

did in the 2000 elections in florida. nor was the vote total even close. president biden won the electoral college by 74 votes. he also won the popular vote by more than 7 million. many of the election deniers identified by the new york times are expected to win in november and dozens of others are in competitive races. in arizona, for instance, a trio of prominent deniers like carole fisher in aim holiday are all running competitive races for governor, secretary of state, and attorney general respectively. those are all positions that would have some power in overseeing the administration of future elections and of certifying the results. meanwhile the republican candidate for governor in pennsylvania doug mastriano attended one of the trials in washington d.c. on january 6th. and if elected he would be able to appoint someone as secretary of state. the states top election official. he said in march in an interview quote i can decertify every machine in the state with

the stroke of a pen. but just a few weeks left until election day and democrats are running out of time to stem the tide of election denialism. there are signs that democrats are feeling the pressure and former president barack obama just announced he will hit the road to campaign for democratic candidates in michigan wisconsin and notably in georgia where this guy, her from, not this, guy this is raphael warnock. he's running against herschel walker who is polling just a few points behind the incumbent democratic senator, raphael warnock we just showed you. >> -- and at the same time -- >> i need to let you know mister walker. you are very well -- and you have a -- prop, that is not. allowed sir. i i ask you to put the pop away. >> this is not a profit. it is real. >> that is herschel walker, flashing what appears to be a party city police badge during

a debate with warnock on friday night. that was, his way by the way, i think that the criticism from of his falsely claiming to be a law enforcement officer in the past. you probably heard about walker recently denying the allegations that he paid an extra front to have an abortion, and surprisingly has his own long history of election denialism. on january six as the insurrection was unfolding at the capitol he posted this tweet in which he attacked donald trump and called on him to quote get to the bottom of who stole this election. walker is just one example of a new breed of republicans who've crafted their personas in donald trump's likeness. brash, blustery and full of false confidence. as many of these election deniers are poised to take office you've got to wonder how americans can trust them to protect our democracy when they built their political careers on disparaging and dismantling the core values of our democracy. joining me now is steve bannon, in either of -- and producer of the rachel maddow show. he is not have the impostors,

how -- could cease governing and seizing the american politics. thank you for being with. us midterm elections are typically a little bit boring. they are typically a thing in which people not unique people to not show up the way they typically do. but in this particular case we have got absolute attacks on a democracy we have election denialism. we have post-roe v. wade attacks on women's reproductive rights and basic freedoms on their own body. we have a lot of signaling about other rights that might be taken away. put this all into the mix and telling what motivates voters and what can happen in 23 days. n in 23 days >> for voters who do not early voting midterm elections you are right there are a lot of them we've no excuse this year we might be looking at a situation in which democracies under attack and we do not yet know for example whether there is going to be election denialism election deniers throughout the state. when rates are on the ballot. reproductive rights are on the ballot. health care benefits are on the ballot. we saw reports that social security cuts and medicare cuts

are on the table for republicans. so taken together i can't imagine who it is it is going to be sitting through this thinking yeah i'm gonna sit this one out. >> this last week you wrote about gop distrust in election results. this is important because the basic underpinning of election denialism or the stuff that donald trump was doing before the 2020 elections to cause people to distrust the system i want to read from what you wrote you said republican voters have been told not to trust election results or election administrators or election lawyers or independent news organizations or political scientist or the courts. rather, they have been told to trust easily discredited nonsense from a failed and corrupt former president's conspiratorial allies and conservative media outlets that profit from his propaganda. and quote. you are entirely right steve and his republicans need to come to the table on this and say look democracy matters more than donald trump. but is there a way to fight back against this distress the

way has been sewn in the electoral system amongst republicans and independents? >> that is a good question. in fact i think it is the question. ultimately is going to be voters who are deciding the election and are going to decide whether or not people are in office. so what saloon you get right down to it we have had this election and i think the viewers are taking this very seriously because it is a serious matter. and ultimately is going to be in their hands. if voters empower radicals they're gonna get more radicalism. so it is unsatisfying to think well it is a democracy and so therefore the decisions is in the voters hands. but ultimately that is the only answer that i have the powers in the hands of the electorate and no one else. >> you know how much i respect you it is why i keep asking you to come here. that is unsatisfying right? it must be unsatisfying to you to to say those words that you hope they do the right thing on the evidence says that they have not done the right thing. 60% of americans will have the

opportunity to cast a ballot for an election denier and if your instinct is to vote republican because all the election deniers are republicans or independents running right now. if you are sick used to be the guy who was republican because you like lower taxes unless government you may just do that. and you may inadvertently in unconsciously support the erosion of democracy in 23 days because you do not register what you just wrote. >> right. and it is a serious threat when you look at the polls right now and you ask what is important there are numerous visions that are near the top you talk about inflation and jobs and reproductive rights and so on. but underpinning all of that is our democracy. we cannot have a debate over the economy or policy or reproductive policy or health care policy if we do not have a functioning system. a system in which decisions are made at the ballot box and trust is putting elected officials and they have the authority to govern. it is likely irving to four conversations at the same time. one is on policy in the typical

debates that we have every year. and then there is another about the fundamental underpinnings of our government. and it is the latter that i think has to be at the forefront of peoples minds this year because we cannot have the other debates because our system is not healthy and functioning in a way that is becoming a superpower in a global landscape. >> this should -- be it is not that democrats have a rule other than coming out to vote but your concern every democrat in this country that's the other party is a mess. it is not worth winning an election if just to see the other party entirely dysfunctional. everybody know either whether democrat or republican or where you are in the political system should want a functioning political system in america as you just described. >> right. and yet here we are. it seems like common sense. it seems like we are the preeminent superpower on the planet right now. world's oldest democracy.

you would think at a certain level you would not necessarily have to have this conversation with the fact that the long republican politics between a friend and assistance and the fact that so many republicans have become embracing of this extreme bunkers conspiracy theory means that we are stuck in this conversation that ultimately we should not have to have. >> steve thank you my friend. i appreciate all you do. and for those omaha was who do not follow you on twitter or the maddow blog they should because you right so much but many of these important things and they matter now more than ever. steve bannon is the editor of the maddow block in a producer on the rachel maddow show and the author of unimportance book. more important now than one else that was published by the way. called impostors who republicans quit governing its east american politics. all right the january 6th hearings have made it clear that the ex president and his allies attempt to overturn the 2020 election. but later i'm going to tell you the story of one man in a very conservative judge who helped prevent that from happening.

you will hear directly from judge michael luttig about the advice that he personally gave vice president mike pence on january the 5th 2021. i promise you this is one of the most important interviews i have done on this show and one that you need to hear. plus it is been five years since the metoo hashtag went viral and started a worldwide reckoning but the movement was actually started ten years earlier by the incredible toronto birds who joins me later in the show. but first breaking news out of iran. a major fire has broken out at a person along with reports of gunfire. this is actually an incredible story because iranian state media says that four prisoners have been killed and 61 people have been hurt. here is a story you may have heard about this. even as one of iran's most inventories prisons right in the heart of tehran where thousands of neurons high-profile prisoners are held. many political prisoners dissidents in a journalist including americans. when i was in iran covering the iran nuclear deal i was assigned a hotel room by the

government overlooking evan prison. maybe as a reminder of what could happen if i did or said anything the government did not like. this fire comes amid ongoing protests led by iranian woman. we will have the very latest as we learn. it more velshi after this. fter this. discomfort back there? instead of using aloe, or baby wipes, or powders, try the cooling, soothing relief or preparation h. because your derriere deserves expert care. preparation h. get comfortable with it. i get bladder leaks. if you are in for five years i didn't want to feel like i was wearing the pads i wore when i was twelve.

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ago this week and it was buzzing even more than usual and every few tweets you would come across #metoo. with each scroll down your timeline you are witnessing the galvanization of an injuring worldwide movement. millions of people, mainly women in power to tell their stories of sexual violence and harassment. if not for the community the has to create as many of this woman would've never told their stories. of course meat was much more than a hashtag in those that have been subject to sexual harassment are much more than their twitter handles. their stories deserving of more than 280 characters.

despite the start of a viral movement on october 15th 2017 the me too movement was actually burned more than a decade earlier. in 2006 and a woman named her on a burke was working and living in alabama where she cofounded an organization called just to be. thank. the nonprofit supports survivors of sexual has salts, particularly young black and brown girls. broken her team were encouraging scores of young girls who had stories of sexual harassment and assault. some were so young they didn't even understand with what they were experiencing was sexual violence. burke, a survivor in her own right, committed herself to giving a voice to those who had been abused. she called her movement me too. that's four to 2016 and so much has changed in america for the first time in history there was a woman on top of a major party ticket for president of the united states of america a woman who is more qualified for the job than anyone in recent memory.

ready to finally break that glass ceiling. but that moment in american history proved to be too fragile. on election night 2016 hillary clinton hopes to give a victory speech at the job at center here in new york city underneath a literal ceiling made of glass. but it was not the ceiling that shattered that night, rather the hopes and hearts of millions of americans particularly women. you are ready to see a change in tide. it was bad enough that despite garnering more votes than her opponent their candidate lost the election. she lost to a known misogynist who was caught on tape bragging about sexually violating women. women were angry. they saw donald trump or what he would eventually become a threat to the personal constitutional rights. the nationwide up rising was planned for the first day of donald trump's presidency, the women's march became one of the largest protests in american history. in cities across the nation and around the world streets turned pink as millions marched for

gender equality and for civil rights. it kicked off a year of reckoning in which a woman came forward in droves with their stories of sexual assault and harassment and one by one powerful man, ceos filmmakers actors musicians and journalists, were called it. many of them held to account for their behavior. and on october 15th 2017 nine months into the trump presidency, me to enter the discourse. the founder toronto bird right to the day in 2017 in an op-ed for time. quote when metoo went viral millions of people around the world made a courageous decision to reveal their darkest secrets. the sheer number of 12 million responses on social media in 24 hours ensured that these stories could not be ignored. many survivors like me felt simultaneous dread and hope at this vulnerable moment of reckoning. but i also knew that moments like this or once in a lifetime for movements like ours and quote.

as donna burke pointed out those millions of people who brought #metoo to life existed long before the hashtag dates. patriarchy and sexism had a major head start to the movements. need to maybe amplify those stories but they were always there. we as a society and we as media just never gave them the space to be told. if prior to october 15th 2017 you would head to the good fortune to be blissfully unaware of the systemic and pervasive nature of sexual harassment and you thought the me too movement simply sprung out out of nowhere. if you've never had to use the word raping conversation and you are probably a man although many may have also been victims of sexual harassment and violence. that is the definition of privilege. in a just world metoo husband eye-opener to me. at the very least we should've taken the last five years to take stock of our own behavior and attitudes towards women. the ways in which we have benefited from our privilege. the ways in which we could be allies to women and to all who

suffer from sexual harassment and assault. at best we ventured have used our power to break down the systemic and institutional barriers to true equality in the workplace and in life itself. it is not lost on me that i am one of those men with great privilege who is speaking to you from a building with many ghosts. this very network has had to reckon with his own role in the me too movement and five years later they're up and many messed lessons learned and countless stories told. but has enough change? i did more than enough talking on the subject so after the break i'm going to pass the mic to some of that you really want to hear from. the founder and the creator of metoo toronto burke. o toronto burke. e business essentials so you can easily manage your team's devices. on the network with more 5g coverage. only from t-mobile for business. i tried everything to remove fabric odors, but my clothes still smelled. until i finally found new downy rinse and refresh!

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that's why calfire firefighters, the american lung association, and the coalition for clean air support prop 30. naomi: i'm voting yes on 30. cotton candy. pink lemonade. bubble gum. when tobacco companies sell candy flavored products, they know exactly what they're doing because four out of five kids who use tobacco start with a flavored product. and once they're hooked, they can be addicted for life. this election: we can stop big tobacco's dirty trick. voting yes on prop 31 will end the sale of candy flavored tobacco products. saving kids from nicotine addiction. me too and viral five years ago vote yes on 31.

as millions of americans around the world courageously shared their stories publicly of sexual violence and harassment as well as messages of solidarity and calls for accountability and change. but the movement really began in 2006 with its founder toronto burke dedicating her life towards the mission of empowering the survivors threw empathy community and healing. joining me now is tarana burke, founder of the me too movement and author of unbound my story of liberation and the birth of me too. my friend thank you for coming back in talking to me as you have done for my viewers for many many years. you have often made the point to me that this is not about

sex, it is about power. and the important message to people like me who hold that power in society is to acknowledge it see it and to try to relinquish it or even the playing field. what is your evaluation of how much of that is happening in the last five years. >> well you know i think people are at least hearing that this is a movement. and this is an issue that is about power and privilege. and that those of us who have power and privilege our job is to use it in service of people have less power and less privilege. i think that that message at the very least is getting through more and more. now, how much of it is happening is hard to say. we do not see it happening in the upper echelons as much as it should but i do think that at least people are understanding that this is not an issue about sex or desire. it is definitely about people who hold power and privilege in institutions that hold power

and privilege. >> if you get a sense of what that should look like for those of us who hold power and privilege? this is not one of those things where you can just decide you are on the right side. many of us thought we were on the right side of it before october 15 2017 and then you realize that you live in this world in which you perpetuated without sometimes knowing that you are perpetuating it. so what does the act of what doesn't actively look like to say i got it i need to share. when you fix the system. >> all of this is about self analysis. if you are an individual. on an individual level once you know whether you do better. so if you are both money you see a lot of -- and people relinquishing their money when they have all this money and this money is about money is a symbol of power so it's an releasing power. if you are a man who is a lot of privilege you see the workshop where you have man who are in a meeting. when you are newark situation

and you are aware of your privilege you need to be constantly aware of the way it plays out in the workplace and the way it plays out in a home in a church and other institutions and be conscious of that at all times. and i think that is something you lose consciousness of that, and you know it is giving you the edge and you know that it is people who are vulnerable around you will have less privilege around you and you take advantage of that, that is when it is a problem. so it is about having some self awareness but the other part is that when you have power in an institution or in any kind of place, corporation or institution, you can undo that power. so that is about changing policy that is what changing laws. those are other ways that we can undo that. and the third way is it is cultural change. i think that is one of the biggest ways that white culture which we do not talk often enough about is what creates the space for violence to

happen. all of us can change right culture. all of us can play a part in upholding that culture. so it is about what kind of things you listen to what kind of jokes you taking part in what kind of television show are you watching. what could be soliciting. to what kind of environments are you allowing to happen around to you. we need to do things like codify consent unify a definition of consent that we teach our children. that we socialize our children to have so everyone is coming up with universal understanding of that. those are the things that shift culture so that we have a different culture. so that people understand privilege and power differently from various decades. >> there are so many people in this country. many of them are men. who say, i never raped anybody or sexually harassed anybody. this just seems like a blame game, it's gone too far. you and i have been talking for

five years about this. you never wanted it to be a man versus woman thing. you do not think that is the solution. >> it is not the solution. if tomorrow morning every single man changed, and said was a different it would not stop this issue. let me say this also. the first person that many women encounter after experiencing sexual violence is usually another woman. and there's usually another woman who says, what were you wearing, why were you there, who keeps shaming on them and makes them feel like they should feel guilty. so is not just about men being different. is about shifting your understanding of sexual violence, a shift in violence it is about all of us really practicing misogyny. patriarchy has us all in a death grip. so it is not just about men being different is about culture being different. this is not a gender war.

the problem is that man really do hold a lot of power. men really do practice misogyny and patriarchy a higher rates than women do. and so we really need men to listen. we need them to engage. and not feel attacked. but to understand their role. women are really oftentimes at the most vulnerable end of this. so we come to this and engage in the conversation differently. but it is not that we are not guilty as well. it is just that we engage in this from a different place in a different understanding. this is not an issue that was going to disappear tomorrow if almond change. we all have to change and we all have a role to play. but there's not a gender war it is a social justice issue and a public health issue and we have to embrace it and address it like that. >> thank you for all you've done, my friend, in philosophy 15 years and before that and

thank you for helping me and our audience understand this as well as you do. you've always been so in a way that doesn't can't and won't put anybody's backup. not that you do not have a right to but you are done in a way that is made it very accessible and approachable and we always appreciate you. thank you toronto burke is the founder of the me too movement and the author of an band my story of liberation and the birth of the me too movement. coming up at the top of the hour, my incredibly important conversation with judge michael luttig who had to look at how to tweet but knew exactly how to save democracy. personalization do not want to mess with somebody working the frontlines in ukraine helping children who are affected by russia's war. 's war can help you grow and protect your wealth, even when you're not working. they'll look at your full financial picture and help you create a flexible strategy designed to balance growth potential and guaranteed income. so you can stop worrying about the future

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plus the powerful cough relief you need. mind if i root through your trash? robitussin. the only brand with real honeyand elderberry. it has been 234 days since russia invaded ukraine and in that time more than 7.6 million ukrainian refugees have fled to europe according to the united nations refugee agency earlier this year germantown reporting

on the war for eastern europe in ukraine i witnessed firsthand many fleeing ukraine full of hungary and poland futures mostly. unknown spirits bent. not unbroken. the un high commission for refugees also says that some 700 million people have been displaced internally and some 13 million people were estimated to be stranded in affected areas or unable to leave. then there are ukrainians who have returned home only to find what used to be their neighborhoods turned to ruined by washes war. that means an incredible need for shelter and services inside ukraine no small task for those at war under attack. among those helping as my old friend dr. -- seen in the video on the right you'll see him in a second. he is amongst many other titles the cofounder of the ukraine children's action project. which provides mental health and educational support to ukrainian refugee children. both of those outside ukraine into those internally displaced. doctor red liner is currently

in warsaw poland after spending some time in ukraine. i think until a couple of days ago, meeting with medical professionals in hospital officials and assisting the orphanage for children and eastern and southern ukraine. while he was there he spoke to the director of the orphanage days after dozens of russian missiles flew overhead. >> -- you had a lot of missiles maybe 20 missiles. our school is significant. >> so the case for 20 or so missiles? >> it is not normal because -- -- >> this probably reminded wear of their where they came. from >> yes. >> i am joined now live from warsaw poland by dr. irwin redlener. as i mentioned he is the cofounder of the ukraine

children's action project and cofounder for the disaster preparedness at columbia university. he's the president cofounder of the children's telephone in nbc news public health analyst. many of you are familiar with because he has been with us a lot during covid. well unanimity while they're talking about syrian refugee children who experienced bombings and we're not able to continue their schooling and had to go to other countries. in this particular case with ukrainians who have had to leave, they are going to countries like hungary and poland and many others where they do not speak the language. they left in the middle of a school year. some of them are still not able to be home and the psychological impact on these children in the short and long term is devastating. because you are talking to look happy and they look like little kids enjoying a normal life but they are not. >> they are totally not alley. this is one of those things we spoke about refugee children in 2017 and about northern greece and the syrian refugees. here we go again and the other thing i was thinking about is

in hurricane ian's path after that unbelievable hurricane you've been to many other disasters as have i. but the thing about this kind of events that we just are witnessing now, the war, is that it is intentional and not mother nature. it is mother russia deciding that they need to take wind invade and destroy ukraine. and that is very painful to witness when i was visiting with these children in this residential facility. many of them are orphans including all the ones i spoke to. what others have special needs about 250 children there at any given time. there is room for support of about 100,000 of short form just imagining these children. and the trauma to them and the inability of continuing school is a huge impact on their future and there's a lot going on and by the way we've also expanded our work to dealing

with some of the medical issues that are affecting children including creating an exchange program to bring american doctors and pediatricians over to help out in ukraine. but there are's a massive amount of work and a massive amount of trauma to all these millions of people including children, but have been displaced and now refugees. >> i will say of the neighboring countries are taking refugees polling has done a pretty good job. and i would say my expectations of poland doing a good job are very low at the beginning of the war but they did and they've included these kids in their educational system and they are providing services and money to parents and they are teaching the kids polish that they can benefit from the schooling system there ultimately it is not a long term solution but the individuals and the government in poland have stepped up. >> they have but they tell you that ability to do that is waning a bit because in the beginning it was overwhelmingly generous and still is but the

budgets to support these children, and by the way this is about 100,000 kids who are school age. in warsaw alone with about 20,000 in schools and of the other 80,000 we are not quite sure where they are. some of them are learning online but the sort of things we are trying to investigate and actually tomorrow can and i will be meeting with the department of education and efforts and so on to try to get more of a handle on where these children are and what they're able to do in terms of getting to school. it is extremely complicated and we have to take your hats off to poland and the other countries that have taken in refugees because it is amazing. but unfortunately may not be enough in the long haul. >> thank you for the work you've done here in the work you've done with syrian children and the work you've done in disasters, and they work you continue to do ultimately to people he when the people of poland. and even in hungary with the government is not too much but the people are trying to do stuff, all of the world. that is the only solution. in warsaw poland, doctor irwin

letter cofounder of the uk children's action. projects of, next le mans amid the michael cohen former -- knows the thinking of his former boss better than everyone and he has a new book, diving into trump's use and abuse of america's justice department. partment ♪♪ hey dad, i'm almost out. i got you. any questions, chris? all good, thanks maura! healthier is managing all your family's prescriptions in one app.

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yeah. i respect that. but that cough looks pretty bad. try this robitussin honey. the real honey you love, plus the powerful cough relief you need. mind if i root through your trash? robitussin. the only brand with real honeyand elderberry. for a man who demands so much loyalty from the people around him, trump may be the most disloyal man of all. he is a long history of turning his back on people and personal in professional settings but he does not burn bridges on his own. he is other people to do it for him. for about a decade that draw belongs to this man, michael cohen, trump's former personal attorney. he was eventually arrested and sentenced to three years in prison for crimes he committed on the former president's behalf. when he was sentenced he said, quote it was my own weakness in a blind loyalty to the man that led me to pursue a path of

darkness overlight. climate time again i felt it was my duty to cover up his dirty deeds. but cohen is seeing clearly now in his new book revenge, how don't jump open eyes to the trauma justice against his critic, cohen offers a stark warning for anybody who thinks trump is on their side. writing quote over the years he had screw people over manipulated them and use them. and i helped him do it. but in my naivete never thought than any of that would happen to me. why do i think? this because i was the one who threw people into the bus for him. i spoke to michael earlier in the week just before his book came out. >> let's talk about this book. in fact i noticed it on the back of it vt cay johnston who is really a chronicle of donald trump's financial dealings but was it for you which he says michael cohen knows trump's twisted mind and insatiable us for dominance better than anyone else. when cohen writes about trump we should play close attention. what is the fame in this book to which my viewers should pay

the close attention? >> it is actually the whole book. there was no one section of this book that is more relevant than the other. i wish people would have listened to be going back into 2018 with the house oversight committee but i wish that the press would have covered even my sentencing more fairly. for example i had put out a statement which was the sentencing report that goes to the judge. nobody really read it and most journalists only read the government's sentencing mo which was nothing but salacious nonsense. again to diminish me so that they could sentence me to this three years. i was so angry about it actually put the entire document in this book at the end of the notes. i want people to read it. i am not saying something today that i did not say five years ago when the sun hits it was taking place. i saw the same exact thing. this was no lying but i lied to congress, i did.

but you know what else was involved in who gave them documents? donald ivanka gerald you name it. everybody wasn't on drafting the statements to congress and what was the lie. do you remember how many times he spoke to donald trump but a fair real estate project in moscow? i told congress three and the real answer was ten. >> all right. let's talk with people still around him. his supporters in congress and the republican party and high places. a lot of the theme of the book is the way he turns on people. in fact your frustration is the way he turned on you. you don't think could happen to you because you are the guy who is doing the dirty work and the lifting. what do you have advice for those people who not only stick with him but aren't many cases running on the basis of his support? >> you may remember the house oversight to mark meadows and john jordan i know what you are all doing. i know the playbook because i rotates. and i think it is going to come out of it.

i said the same thing to rudy giuliani not just on television but he bumped into him at a restaurant in frisco here in the city. i said to him, what you are doing is going to come back to bite you. lo and behold, once again, i'm not pressure. i am nostradamus. i just know the man well enough to know that he does not care about anyone or anything and he will use anyone his case included in order to keep himself out of trouble. >> many are speculating he's going to run for election in 2024 knew what we say this to me that he is not. tell me why. >> because it would distort destroy the great grift. if he wasn't all the money would have to go into a campaign funded people would have to start expressing who they are and becomes listed. they do not want that anymore than he wants that. in his pack,, people do not realize this. he gets to use total discretion. 90% of all the funds 90 cents of every dollar he has full discretion over. you can buy himself another airplane or use this money to fix this old airplane right now.

it is a slush fund. you know the important thing about revenge is that it uses my case. not so much to exonerate myself but what it really does is it is a stark warning to you ali and everybody watching the show and everybody in this country. what happened to me he can and will happen to you if we allow our democracy which is in peril thanks to don trump in his followers in his acolytes. it will happen to you. >> and if you are trapped about you being in prison you have a chapter in total democracy in peril one of the things you talk about in this book very specifically is the degree to which donald trump flirts with fascism. we have forces right now with the oath keepers and groups like that facing trial for seditious conspiracy and we have people who do not want democracy supporting donald trump and donald trump continuing to play footsie with these groups. tell me about. that >> first of all they are

insane to continue to support me. i certainly membrane you can find the clip saying you do this i'm gonna take care of your legal fees. >> really? >> i don't care of any of the legal fees, including his own. he thinks everything is going to be on the arm it is back to his old boy cohen days. we'll know it is not and now you are seeing some of these individuals some of these insurrectionists were five or seven years sentences. where is donald on? that is gonna take care of his family? he is a pair about them either. if they are either in speaking possible for him that's all he cares about. the second that they are not able to. roads and michael cohen what. >> that's where you say to you. they called the coffee boy. they didn't treat you as being central to his whole operation. >> correct because it is something that bothers so many people who know me well and there wasn't night i would go out for dinner there wasn't the

night that i have people over. i was in somebody's home where he did not call a 123 punch including when i was on vacation. it wasn't every day advance for the morning 11 at night. it didn't matter to him i was there to be used by him. they say when he is using all of these learned vigils. and they too like rudy giuliani, will understand just how devastating the government can be especially when you have somebody like donald trump who weaponize the justice department using a lap top attorney general to go against his critics. >> michael thank you for the book and thank you for being here. always good to see. you >> he was. well >> he is the author of the new book, revenge how trump nicely thrown to justice against his critics. it is out now hot off the presses. all right up next inflation watch and prices keep going up at that is not the whole story. i am very excited to talk about this with a true veteran of the new york stock exchange and a very good time friend bob pisani.

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price index for september confirming what you already knew that the price of goods and services continues to rise. the cpi measures the average change in over time. take a look at this chart. this goes back to 1965 and it tells you two things. when is that inflation is as biases of a ban. you can look at the 80s for. that but take a look at the start of the right side of the

charts. it is one of the primary tools that we used to measure inflation and they all have the economy as a whole. the overall index climbed 8.2% year over year and picked up four tenths of a percentage in august double what economists expected. and brace yourself for more price paying down the road. the federal reserve is expected to raise rates once again in early november and we do know the oil prices are going up. watch this. okay. i will do that in a bit. those of you have been watching me for a long time ago the guy my financial journalist and that many years ago back when i work for cnn i used to have a show from the floor of the new york stock exchange. i work. siena cnbc was a competitor in that space. and yet when i got there and was from two years ago there was a guy who is all really a veteran of stock markets working on for at the time. when i needed something one of these understand something, this is a guy turn. to bob cassava who spent more than 30 years every working day that that market was open. 30 years on the floor.

of the new york stock exchange. this is a younger job, bob but he's just as. handsome he's a senior correspondent for cnbc and coming up with a new book later this week called shut up and keep talking, lessons on life and investing from the floor of the new york stock exchange. when you see him on my show you know that something big is up because there is no particular reason we earn a stop show here. about when my, viewers of, are getting worried. they're looking to the stock market moves that are in the hundreds and sometimes more than hundreds of points moves on the dow on a daily basis. so time to come and put me on these bones. congratulations my friend and thank you for decades of help and we have on the stuff. what my fear is need to know? >> thanks for the old pictures there. i. brown hair wants and now i die my hair great to make it look more important interesting. here is the problem. the federal reserve has got a real issue and they have to

mandates to keep the economy going into have job growth for them to fight inflation. you do good job so far. he's been very good last couple of years, john. it has been strong but inflation is out of control and so they are laser focused on trying to stop inflation. 2% inflation is fine, everybody's been happy with that for years. and has not been a problem. but when you have a cpi, the consumer price index, that is a problem. it erodes the values of peoples savings and makes everything much more expensive. you see how housing prices have gone up. so the fed has got to stop and bring down inflation but here is a problem alley. they do not have a very fine instruments to do it. they are very blunt instruments. a blunt instrument is all we can do is just raise short term interest rates and hope interest rates well elsewhere for other long term things like housing and workers costs go up. and slowly we slow down the economy, but the problem is that historically they do not

have a lot of success and to doing that without inducing a recession. that is why the stock market is freaking out a little bit because we can handle the stock that we generally can handle. modest inflation. because they raise prices. think about these companies. they raise prices to meet them. but now once you get to a point where you cannot keep raising prices think of a chocolate bar. you might have $1 and then a year later the prices go up to $1.05. if you go to $1 ten or dollar 15 at some point someone's going. to say, you know what, i'll stop on the chocolate bar. i'll stop on that. and it is what the investors are worried about right now. it will do such a slowdown in the economy the lot of people are just going to walk away from buying a lot of good so we in a very difficult moment right now. the fights of a real fine -- >> here's a benefit of u.s. opposed to a lot of other people to talk to us that when you look at the start market over ten years and 15 years back to maybe the first day when you started on the floor of the stock exchange more than

30 years ago or 50 years or hundred years, the trajectory of the stock market tends to be up into the right, that is just how it goes. how worried should my viewers be right now when they see the dow tumbling hundreds of points every day and they are saying it is time for me to get of the market right now? we're not chilling for the stock market because people are feeling unsafe they should not be investing in stocks. but historically the stock market recovers itself. >> yes. it is very unusual. the market spent more than 20% this, year it is very unusual for that to happen. in fact it's only happened 15 time since the 19 twenties and more than half of the time you are back to where you were before this within a year or so. so the market tends to recover three out of four years the s&p 500 which is the most common engagement of the stock market that we use the 500 biggest stocks out there is a 3 to 4 years is gone up since the 19 twenties. most of the time it has gone up even 10% or more. more than 50% of the time the

s&p 500 goes up 10% or more. there's a small amount of time, about ten or 12% with the s&p drops 10% or more and this may be one of those years. so obviously is tough here. remember, this ali. the last 12 years from 19 10 to 19 -- excusing from 2010 to 2021, we were up an average of 50% here in the stock market. that is rather extraordinary. the historic average 10% a year. i know this is a bad year, i'm not happy about. it but we are back to where we were two years ago. that is not good but it is hardly a disaster. and he started put that in perspective. >> another piece of respective in your book i think we might have you on the floor of the new york stock exchange or a long time ago with trainers. back when you and i worked there together, it looks like this. not this particular picture but there were lots of people. the traders who get annoyed with you for coming in their way and they would be paperless for the place and then using hand signals.

the place is changed a lot. >> yes. when i got there in 1997 full-time on the floor there were 4000 mostly men on the floor of the new york stock exchange and 80% of the volume of all of the trading on the new york stock exchange happen on the floor. 4000 people. today there are several hundred the do 15 to 20% and what happened there is technological destruction of electronic trading changed the nature of trading so we have got there as you see with something spending their form out of the new stock exchange mostly open outcry where traders were literally yell at each other saying that i've had 2000 chairs of five pfizer to buy here and you would literally have to negotiate with each other. we'll do that simply change by the time about the year 2000. so i love the floor and i am still there and i love people on the floor but that is what technological change and destruction does and