sense of closure this time. the trial behind him, beth's father the artist john lochtefeld finish the book he and beth had worked on together. it was published after she died. he illustrated her words and dedicated the book to beth and her dreams. the dream she lived and those that died too soon with her. >> that's all for this edition of dateline, i'm natalie morales, thank you for watching. this sunday, the battle grounds. with the midterms now just 23 days away, it is candidates that will determine party controls are making their final pitch to voters, and facing off on the

debate stage. in georgia -- >> that was a lie, i'm not backing down. >> my opponent as a problem with the truth. pennsylvania. >> we should have had a debate already. >> i actually have a record in fighting crime. and wisconsin. >> we have to keep violent criminals in jail. >> it's absurd when people say i'm soft on crime. i'll speak with two independents, senator bernie sanders of vermont and utah's independent senate candidate evan mcmullin. plus, trump's testimony. >> he must accountable. the january 6th committee issues a subpoena for former president trump to testify about his role in the attack on the capitol. >> we are obligated to seek answers directly from the man who set this all in motion. while new video reveals congressional leaders pleading for help -- >> why don't you get the president to tell them to leave the capitol. and new questions emerge on how the secret service handled advance warnings of the threat. i'll talk to democratic

congresswoman stephanie murphy of florida, who sits on the committee. and political polarization. why the state of wisconsin best represents the deep divide playing out in our national politics. my reporting on the ground behind what's driving the red and blue division. joining me for insight and analysis are amy walter, politico playbook co-author eugene daniels. former north carolina governor pat mccrory and maria teresa kumar. >> announcer: this is "meet the press" with chuck todd. good sunday morning. there is just over three weeks to go. nearly 2 million americans have already voted, just another 120 million to go. with republicans still favored to win control of the house, both parties are actually keeping their attention and money right now focused on the battle for control of the senate. in particular, these nine

battleground states, these are the nine closest senate races in the country, because they're trying to keep their top targets in place. in order to win back control, republicans have to flip one of the senate seats currently held by the democrats, georgia, arizona, nevada or new hampshire, while also holding on to all of their seats that are in play here, pennsylvania, ohio, north carolina are open seats. florida and wisconsin feature incumbents. on the democratic site, catherine cortez-masto is arguably the most vulnerable and they're trying to pick off raphael warnock but they have struggled a bit as allegations of domestic abuse and now abortion seem to saddle republican herschel walker. georgia, by the way, has the highest price tag in the country of any midterm race. more than $140 million has been spent on ads since the primary. by the way, that $140 million is more than what both bush and gore spent in the year 2000, if you want to see how much funding has grown exponentially.

so the number here will get even bigger, especially if this georgia race goes into another overtime. this runoff would be december 6th. walker again denied that i paid for the mother for one of his children to have an abortion. >> as i say, that's a like. that was a like and i'm not backing down and we have senator warnock. we have people that would do anything and say anything for this seat, but i'm not going to back down. this seat is too important to the georgia people for me to back down right now. >> you've vocally been pro-life. would you support a complete ban on a national level? >> first of all, that's not true, either. i said i support the heartbeat bill and i said that has exceptions in it. >> do you believe there should be any limitation by the government? you have 60 seconds. >> i think the women of this

country and the women of this state woke up one summer morning, and a core protection that they've known for 50 years was taken from them by an extremist supreme court. and i stand where i said i stand in the past that a patient's room is too narrow and small and cramped a space support a woman, her doctor and the united states government. >> by the way, early voting in georgia starts tomorrow. let's turn to a few of the democratic opportunities here. just two republican incumbents as i noted are in battleground races, that's wisconsin and florida. but nominees that essentially were hand-picked by donald trump in those three open races have made those states more competitive as well. the cycle's second highest ad price tag is in the state of pennsylvania, more than $95 million has been spent on ads just since the primary in may. my colleague dasha burns had exclusive interviews this week with both senate nominees. nbc agreed to use a

transcription program for john fetterman because he's still experiencing some auditory issues from his stroke in may. outside of that, the campaign has denied additional requests for his medical records. >> reporter: don't voters deserve to know your status now? >> being in front of thousands and thousands of people and having interviews and getting around all across pennsylvania, that gives everybody and the voters decide if they think it's really the issue. dr. oz likes to make fun of me that i might miss a word, but he's missed two words, and that's a yes or no on the national abortion ban. >> one of your campaign staffers said john fetterman wouldn't have had a quote if he had ever eaten a vegetable in your life. you're a heart doctor. you of all people know what john fetterman is going through, better than most. why would you allow your campaign to mock him for that? >> i have tremendous compassion for what jobson fetterman is going through.

not only as a doctor do i appreciate what he's going through but this is a specialty area. >> doesn't the buck stop with you? >> i accepted responsibility, and i deal with issues as they come up, but he has his own set of issues. we should have had a debate already. >> would you ever talk to your patients like this? >> no. in wisconsin, the race between republican senator ron johnson and mandela barnes, just two months since the primary, this puts wisconsin thirds on the overall spending list. many ads have focused on the issues of crimes. at least the ads coming from republicans and in a debate the attacks by johnson continued. >> we need law enforcement and the problem with the whole defund movement, which he's been a big supporter of, it dispirits law enforcement. they're having a hard time recruiting members. >> no police officers are more dispirited than the ones present at the united states capitol on january 6th. [ applause ] >> i immediately and forcefully and repeatedly condemn the

violence on january 6th, unlike my opponent, who basically just -- >> audience, please. >> the 2,000 officers injured during the summer riots. he incited the kenosha riots. >> he called those folks patriots, tourists. people beading up police officers in the capitol, people who were there to protect him. >> mandela barnes was endorsed early in the primary by bernie sanders. it helped vault him. meanwhile, senator sanders has been cautioning democrats to stay as focused on economic issues in the final weeks of the race as the party has been on the issue of abortion rights. senator sanders joins me now. welcome back to "meet the press." >> good to be with you. >> look, i want to focus on -- this was an op-ed you wrote about a week or so ago. and you've said this in other programs. walk me through what you would be doing right now if you're in a battleground race. you've said abortion rights should be front and center. how would you be talking about

the economic issues? >> well, number one, what the supreme court did was totally outrageous. it is women who should control their own bodies, not the government. number two, too many people have fought and died to defend american democracy. we cannot let right-wing extremists undermine what is so important to this country. that's the right of all people to participate in the political process. thirdly, and terribly important, we live in a moment, chuck, in which we see an economy where the people on top are doing phenomenally well, while working people are struggling. you got more income and wealth inequality than any time in the history of the united states. that is insane. what i think is, democrats should talk about the economy. i think they should contrast their views with the republican positions. i believe, and most democrats

believe, that at a time when half our people are living paycheck to paycheck, we should raise the minimum wage to a living wage. no republicans support that. i think we should make it easier for workers to join unions. republicans don't support that. i believe when you have billionaires not paying a nickel in some cases in federal income taxes, yeah, we should demand the rich and large corporations start paying their fair share. now, what republicans are saying, chuck, which is quite amazing to me is that in the midst of these difficult economic times for seniors and for other people, you know what they say? we've got to cut social security. we've got to cut medicare. we've got to cut medicaid. i think that that's grotesque and i think democrats have got to hole them accountable for those reactionary positions. >> senator, do you accept the criticism that the american rescue plan passed in early 2021 contributed to the current inflation issue we're dealing with now? >> no, i don't.

inflation right now, as i'm sure you know, chuck, is an international problem. in germany it is 10%. uk it is 10%, canada, it is 7%. inflation globally is caused by the pandemic and the break in supply chains. it is caused by, in my view, the war in ukraine, obviously, and it is also caused by incredible corporate greed. and i hope everybody understands that when you go to the gas tank, fill up your car today, the oil companies are making huge profits, the food companies are making huge profits. prescription drugs are high, pharmaceutical industry is making huge profits, and we got to deal with that issue and republicans won't, by the way. >> we have a majority of economists now that believe a recession in the next 12 months is likely. first of all, do you think the federal reserve is currently helping or hurting the situation?

>> i think they're hurting the situation. i think it is wrong to be saying that the way we're going to deal with inflation is by lowering wages and increasing unemployment. that is not what we should be doing. this inflation thing is a real issue, it is a global issue, but at a time when working families are struggling and the people on top are doing phenomenally well, i don't think you go after working people. >> you wouldn't raise interest rates anymore, that the damage has already been done in your view? >> yes, that's correct. >> let me move to a couple races. i want to get a take on a few things. john fetterman in pennsylvania. you had some health issues on the campaign trail. you were asked to release more of your medical regards. you didn't release all of your records but did release quite a few letters from your doctors, and, frankly, you were on trail being who you are, and going all over the country.

i think folks saw that your health was in good shape. do you think mr. fetterman should be releasing more of his medical records since he's asking for a six-year term here? >> well, chuck, i don't know enough about john's medical situation, but i think the contrast is very clear. i do know john fetterman. i have known him for years. and john is somebody who is going to be a real fighter for the working class of this country. he is prepared to take on the greed of corporate america. and i hope very much he joins us in the united states senate. >> in wisconsin, mandela barnes getting hit hard on the issue of crime. you've hear the phrase defund the police. he's not alone. a lot of democrats are being hit with these ads. how would you be handling these attacks? >> well, obviously it's not true, the attacks on him. i know that mandela believes very strongly that we need

good law enforcement, nonracist law enforcement, and i agree with him on that. if we're going to end -- solve the terrible drug problem, we've got to get at the root causes of those problems. that means we have a better educational system, that we make sure that our young people have the decent jobs that they need. >> democrats are not spending a lot of resources and time on two races in particular, ohio and florida, the senate races. do you think that's a mistake? >> look, i think that ryan in ohio is running a very strong campaign. and i've known him for years. this is a guy who is prepared to stand up and has been prepared to stand up for working-class people. and, again, to me, chuck, all over this country, the issue is pretty clear. are you going to support a party that wants to give more tax breaks to the rich, cuts social

security, medicare or medicaid, or are you going to support people standing up for the working people? i'm not here to tell you that the democrats are perfect, believe me, i'm not, but on virtually all the issues, it's pretty clear, democrats are far, far more preferable in florida, ohio, all over this country, and i hope very much that we can retain control of both the house and the senate. senator, during 2016 and in 2020, you made a big deal about wanting to court trump voters. i'm curious on your perspective on this now in an era where a majority of reporters think the 2020 election was stolen and somehow joe biden is an illegitimate president. are these voters still worth courting, in your mind? >> look, i think there are some extreme right-wing voters who are racist, sexist, homophobes, xenophobes and i don't think you'll ever get them, but i also think there's millions of people in this

country, working class people that look at washington and saying, i'm falling further and further behind, i can't afford health care. i can't afford to send my kids to college. who is listening to me? i think what we need is a democratic party that has the guts to stand up to them and say, yeah, we're going to take on the greed of the insurance companies and the drug companies and wall street, and i think if we do that, some of the people -- i'm not saying all, will say, you know what, i'm going to stand with the democratic party because on these economic issues they're far preferable to right wing senators. >> senator bernie sanders, the independence senator that caucuses with the democrats, i imagine we'll see you on the campaign trail in the next few weeks. maybe we'll catch up again. >> yes, you will. >> thank you. let me turn now to the unexpectedly close senate race in utah where another independent here, name evan mcmullin is taking on mike lee. in a poll this week

lee is just up by four points, 41%/37%. a large number of voters are still undecided. they will square off in their only debate tomorrow night s romney has been pledging neutrality. evan mcmullin joins me now. we invited senator lee on the program, but he declined to appear for this sunday. we hope to ask him again. mr. mcmullin, welcome back to "meet the press." >> good to be with you, chuck. >> let me start with what we heard from your opponent this week. let me play what senator lee said on fox news with tucker carlson. >> i'm asking him going right now, mitt, if you'd like to protect the republican majority, give us any chance of seizing it again, getting it away from the democrats who are facilitating this massive spending free in a massive

inflationary binge, please get on board, help me win re-election. help us do that. >> have you spoken to senator romney about his neutrality? do you expect him to stay neutral in the race? >> well, i haven't spoken to him about it, but i deeply respect senator romney's leadership in the senate for utah and for our country, and i respect and appreciate his decision to stay out of the race. that's about all i can say. i don't know what his decision will be going forward, but, yes, i would expect him to stick with the decision he's made. but i haven't spoken with him about it. >> senator lee is implying that a vote for you is a vote for the democrats to keep their majority. is he right? >> look, no, because i am running as an independent. and, look, i'm building a coalition of republicans, democrats, independents, and members of third parties to help lead our country forward. i'm not going to washington to

join a party or caucus or play the party power game. i'm going to represent our coalition and that's a commitment i made to our coalition and i'll maintain my independence. >> all six years? if you serve the entire time you're in the senate, you will not join either party's caucus, giving them officially your vote? >> no, chuck, i will not. i will maintain my independence. i will not caucuses with other side and, by the way, chuck, i think that this will give utah an added value of influence in the senate that it just doesn't have. certainly we have in senator romney, someone who has gotten a lot done for our state and our country working across party lines to get things done. with senator lee, we get none of that. he sits on his hands until it's time to vote no, and then he goes and complains about our country on cable news and i'm just not going to do that. i think we've seen well enough over the past year or two that the senators in the

chamber, who are willing to act with greater independence, serving their constituents, standing up to party bosses, standing up to extremist factions and special interest groups, they have the most influence in the chamber. they're more influential than the party bosses and i want that for you a utah. i we we'll do a great deal of good with this. >> there's easily a scenario where you win your seat, republicans are sitting at 50 -- have 50 senate seats, democrats have 49, you're the one. and i want to ask you this question, you tweeted this in january of 2011, you said, not only should mitch mcconnell never be majority leader again, but not minority leader either. it's time for something new. the scenario i painted may make it where you decide whether mitch mcconnell is majority leader or minority leader. if you're in that scenario, are you going to stick with being an independent and let the chips fall where they may and know ma mcconnell is going to be leader?

>> well, look, the parties will decide who they choose to lead them. i won't be part of that as an independent and whatever scenario, chuck, the parties in washington and others, they're going to have to figure out what this means for them on their own. i'm committed to maintaining my independence, i'm building a cross-partisan coalition. i also believe that our country needs more independent leaders who will stand up to party bosses on both sides, the special-interest groups who own too many of our politicians and also to the extremist factions that i think have far too much influence in washington. i'm committed to doing that. i've made a commitment to this coalition that i'll maintain my independence. as i said, for the parties and bosses in washington, they'll have to decide what this means on their own. >> a couple bills i want to ask you about, if you were in the senate, the inflation reduction act. you have said there are some good things in it and things you didn't like but at the end of the day sometimes you got to vote for a compromise. would you have voted for that legislation or not?

>> not as written. there are things i like in it, other things i didn't. i didn't like the fact i don't think it did much to actually reduce inflation. especially in the short they remember. i don't think our leaders are doing enough on that front. here in utah, our inflation rate is worse more than other states. my family and most others here are being crushed by inflation. and we need leaders and need a senate who is going to focus on actually delivering more results to lower inflation. i did like the fact it started to allow medicare to negotiate on prescription drugs. we pay far more for prescription drugs than we need to in america. that comes as a result of people like my opponent, senator lee, taking lots of money from big pharma special interest groups, and preventing negotiating for lower prescription drugs. that's got to end, and again why i'm running to replace senator lee. >> in 2016, when you were running for president, you said you would want to see roe v. wade overturned. when you and i talked on a

podcast a couple months ago, your concern was that the overturn was creating some extreme laws and you were worried about those. do you think there needs to be federal legislation that sets some sort of minimum standard, and would you support lindsey graham's bill that i guess one would argue is attempting to do that, banning abortion after 15 weeks, but allowing it up until then? >> well, look, for any piece of legislation that has a chance of passing the senate, i'll give it a close look, but the reality is that most of these bills, if not all of them, being introduced since the supreme court's decision have been messaging bills that have either been intended to make a political point, or worse, to divide americans. i'm trying to find a more constructic way forward. it's tearing the country apart where extreme bills are being passed around the country, some of which my opponent has supported, which would not allow exceptions for the victims of

rape or incest even, for example. i think that's wrong. we need to stand up for those things. but more importantly we have to make constructive steps forward. doing more to support women, children and families and improving education on this matter. that's where i'll focus my time. >> i want to close just one more time. there's no scenario, where if you win this senate seat, you will caucus with the democrats if it means they would be in the majority? >> i will not caucus with democrats or republicans. i'm going to maintain my independence, because i think our country needs that, and certainly our state needs that. i have made that commitment, and for party bosses and others in washington, they're going to have to figure out what it means for them. i'm committed to maintaining my independence and that is what i'm going to do. >> evan mcmullin, independent candidate from utah, appreciate you coming on. sharing your perspective with us. stay safe on the trip. >> thank you. when we come back, the january 6th committee voted to

issue a subpoena for donald trump. we'll talk to congresswoman stephanie murphy about why they waited till now to testify.

there's a reason comcast business powers more businesses than any other provider. actually, there's a few... comcast business offers the fastest, reliable network... the protection of security edge... and the most reliable 5g network. want me to keep going? i can... whether your business is starting or growing, you need comcast business. technology solutions that put you ahead get started with fast speeds and advanced security together for $69.99 a month for 12 months. plus find out how to get up to a $650 prepaid card with a qualifying bundle.

welcome back. in its final hearing before the midterms, the january 6th committee voted to subpoena former president trump and it prompted a 14-page response which didn't include whether he was actually going to comply with the subpoena. democratic congresswoman stephanie murphy of florida is a member of the committee, and she joins me now. congresswoman murphy, welcome back to "meet the press." >> great to be with us. >> i want to something you said yourself on thursday. i'll put it on the screen. the big lie, the pressure campaigns against state officials, against the department of justice and his vice president, the fake elector, summoning the mob, all demonstrates his personal and substantial role in the plot to overturn the election. you said this on thursday but arguably by the end of july, your committee had proven all of this, and it sort of raises the question, why wasn't the trump subpoena issued at the end of the summer in july or august? why now?

>> well, as you know, we've been very methodical about our investigation. and we've been gathering additional information and we've gotten new information, even since the july hearing. and we have always pursued this investigation, calling in whoever we need to, as the information and the facts detail. and so that's why you see that we have asked the central figure in the effort to overturn the 2020 election to turn over documents, as well as provide sworn testimony. >> if he doesn't comply, are you going to ask the full house to send a criminal referral to the justice department to force him to comply? >> i won't engage in any hypotheticals at this moment as the subpoena hasn't even been served, but what i will say is with previous subpoenas, what you've seen the committee do is be very deliberate

and take the response on a case-by-case basis. i imagine we will also do that because we understand the seriousness of the charge of our committee. >> why not subpoena vice president pence? >> i think that's comparing apples to oranges. the former president was the perpetrator, the central figure in orchestrating the efforts to overturn the 2020 election, whereas, vice president pence was somebody who was a key figure in stopping that effort from being successful. and he, through his counsel, has been engaged with the committee, and we will continue to engage with him and make a determination, if necessary, in the future as it relates to the former vice president. >> when you think about former president trump, former vice president pence, i assume if you had pence's word of what happened in the conversation stream, that he would be a bit more of a credible witness than the former president. so why not put him under oath? >> we've had quite a few people who worked for former vice president pence appear before our committee and provide us

with the information they had of those conversations. at this point, we are interested from hearing from the former president, so he may respond. what i will also note, though, is whether people comply with the subpoena or come before our committee or not, it's not as if they're absolved of their role in the january 6th violent attack on the capitol. it's just that other people will articulate what their actions were and what their motivations were. >> the secret service, for me, in your hearing this week, the secret service obviously did not come out looking very good. do we need an additional special investigation, special inquiry into the actions of the secret service, not just around january 6th but the decision when the former head of his detail, mr. ornato, the former deputy chief of staff,

ir -- i guess in short, did the secret service become a rogue agency? >> as a part of our investigation, we have looked at all of the law enforcement agents' response to january 6th. and as you know, we're still going through tens of thousands of documents that the secret service has provided. i look forward to calling back in some of those secret service officials who have knowledge about what happened, and putting them under oath this time, now that we have additional information, to gather their perspectives. and then as far as recommendations, that would be included in the report. >> are we going to see this -- i know we're not going to see this report before election day now and we could have a debate whether the voters should see this, but will we see a report before the end of the calendar year? you're under a clock, so i assume you have to turn in something to us, right? >> you will see a report before the end of the calendar year. but let me just say that this isn't about the next election.

this is about whether the sanctity of american elections here on out will be marred with violence and fraud because in a case where that happened, these people were not held accountable and so that's the purpose of this committee is to ensure that we tell the full truth, allow government officials to make changes to the decision to improve our guardrails, allow the american people to make better decisions about who they elect and also to allow doj to encourage doj to do their job. >> realistically how much more time do you think the committee would need to finish this investigation up? look, january 3rd is january 3rd, i get that but if that deadline weren't there, how much more time would the committee like? >> well, there's so much information out there and if we were allowed to proceed, i think we should because there are a lot of processes and institutional changes that need to be made so we can guard against anybody,

irrespective of political party, ever attempting to overturn a u.s. election again. >> so bottom like, this investigation isn't done even if the committee is forced to end on january 3rd? >> i think that we will present a report and what i look forward to is seeing our recommendations be implemented. if you'll note, the 9/11 recommendations took several different administrations as well as different congresses to be implemented across almost over a decade. i imagine and i hope that will happen with the recommendations that come out of the report we produce before the end of the year. >> hopefully we hope to do that before the democracy is at risk again. stephanie murphy, democrat from florida, thank for you coming on and share your perspective. >> great to be with you. up next the issues of crime and abortion, they are dominating the debates and the airwaves and the contests that are going to decide senate control. our panel is next to discuss.

[ sneezing ] are you okay? oh, it's just a cold. if you have high blood pressure, a cold is not just a cold. coricidin is the #1 doctor recommended cold and flu brand. specially designed for people with high blood pressure. be there for life's best moments. trust coricidin. as a business owner, your bottom line is always top of mind. so start saving by switching to the mobile service designed for small business: comcast business mobile. flexible data plans mean you can get unlimited data or pay by the gig. all on the most reliable 5g network. with no line activation fees or term contracts. saving you up to $500 a year.

and it's only available to comcast business internet customers. so boost your bottom line by switching today. comcast business. powering possibilities. ™

back now with the panel and yes it's a good one, amy walter, we have politico co-author eugene daniel, former north carolina governor pat mccrory is joining us for the first time. welcome aboard and maria teresa kumar. i actually want you guys -- each party thinking they have identified the achilles' heel of the other party. so i want to look at the defenses. here's how, in the three big races, how democrats are handling the crime issue in debates in interviews, in wisconsin, pennsylvania and georgia. take a listen. >> i have supported our police officers. i have called them and i've prayed with their families, like the officers lost in cobb county. one thing i have not done, i've never pretended to be a police officer, and i've never threatened a shootout with the

police. >> 140 officers injured, one crushed in a revolving door, another hit in the head with a extinguisher, another stabbed with a metal stake, so this talk supporting law enforcement, it's not real. >> we funded the police and we funded the police and created a strong partnership between the police and the community. so i'm the only candidate that i'm actually running on my record on crime whereas dr. oz has never done anything about crime, except going around and running a bunch of commercial ads lying about my record. >> warnock sort of hitting a bit at walker and fetterman going, hey, i was mayor. i actually fought crime. who is doing it best? >> which is consistent also with their themes of their campaigns, right? in wisconsin, it's ron johnson is not who you think he is, or he's looking out for interest

that that are not your own. he says he's really looking at law enforcement when they needed his help, he wasn't providing it. but democrats have known that the crime issue was a challenge for them since the very beginning of this election. they talked about it a lot after 2020, they saw the first ads run in a special election in new mexico, special election for the house in a very democratic seat. one of her first ads was having sheriffs and police officers standing behind her, so this was -- they've been playing defense on this for quite some time, and they're hoping in the last few weeks of this election, people are going to be spending as much time as looking at the weaknesses of their republican opponents than on the challenges that they have. >> eugene, who has done this best?

>> i think warnock, and when you look at warnock and his ability to stick to his guns, so to speak, on this issue, and as we were saying, it connects with everything else he's been talking about when he said i call and i pray, that's a reminder that i'm a reverend of ebb beezer bab 'tis church in georgia. that's a call back and it's on purpose. that's one of the reasons he's been winning the whole time. even before the abortion allegations for walker. he's been winning this race. and that's where that's going to continue. >> and mandela barnes has i think arguably you could have seen this coming, he didn't do as much inoculation as warnock did. >> he didn't but he was we minding people the difference between he and ron johnson. one of the conversations we're not having is this an opportunity for democrats to own police enforcement. ron johnson said the fbi was planting evidence against him. he's talking about the largest picture of when the fbi went

into mar-a-lago and legally took away all of president trump's archives. and all of a sudden, these republicans and republican leadership flipped on him and said it was an fbi sting job. that is not the party of law enforcement. and, if anything, it's undermining a really basic institution. >> let's be clear, fetterman and in the race -- why am i blanking on their candidate -- in pennsylvania and wisconsin, they both have records that are liberal. and they can be used to make them look out of sync. this is not random. >> i want to bring pat in here. we had a mass shooting in raleigh over the last three days. you and i were talking before the show, you said, what is interesting, you haven't see the democratic nominee, she hasn't hit bud on guns or these things. maybe there's vulnerable. >> as a former mayor, it's an issue i ran on for 14 years as mayor of charlotte.

i split crime into three areas. one is the riots by an arc kisses who want to destroy things, small groups and at the time republicans had the upper hand. kamala harris and them were bailing out hollywood stars bailing out rioters burning out police stations but then january 6th. trump wants to pardon rioters who attacked police. we break even on that. then we have the mass shootings. i'm shocked they're bringing up crime. every crime, the democrats are on their heels. and they deserve to be on their heels when you look at cities like l.a., san francisco, my own city, the democrats are -- our d.a.s on enforcing crime. >> we could keep going, but i want to piven to the achilles' heel side to abortion. here's how walker, johnson and oz are handling the abortion issue. >> i'm a christian, but i'm also

representing the people of georgia. and that's who i represent so what the people of georgia stand for, i'm going to stand with them. >> i proposed a one-time single-issue referendum to decide at what point does society have the responsibility to protect life. >> i'm giving you a bigger answer than yes or no. i'm telling you i don't want any federal rules limiting what states do with abortions. it should be up to the states. >> eugene, we're all over the place. evan mcmullin -- nobody knows on this issue what to do if you're on what was originally the pro-life side of this issue. >> that was always going to happen. we talked about this last year on "meet the press" last year. and it's clear they were going to catch the car and what is going to happen after. and here's what happens, a hodgepodge of ideas of what voters might want to hear at that time. when you look at abortion versus economy versus crime, this is a very choose your own adventure

election, right? people can just pick and choose whatever they want even within the issues themselves. >> the five swing voters, what do you think they care about crime or abortion? >> if you're in a state with abortion restrictions, you are much more motivated than if you're in a state that's not. so if you're in a traditional blue state or california, et cetera, you're less motivated by some of these other states. >> i'm going to pause the discussion. we're going to come right back. up next, though, why the state of wisconsin best represents our deep divide that plays out in national politics. a little taste from my reporting from the ground and what's driving the divisions, in a state of what i like to call ground zero for polarization.

welcome back. it is no secret the country is polarized. all you have to do is look at washington by the numbers. take a look at the u.s. senate here. 50/50. the house is almost as close, 220/212. and here's a number that should really be a bit disturbing to folks. believe it or not, 44 states have voted for the same party for president in five of the last six elections. look at the six at a time that don't fit that category. so to better understand these national divisions, i traveled to wisconsin, a state that truly represents political polarization in our country and what we have undergone in recent year. i sat down with two former governors of wisconsin, who both knew how to win big in this divided state in the '90s and

early 2000s. in 1994, tommy thompson, he won by more than 35 percentage points, and all but one of wisconsin's 72 counties. this came in between two presidential wins in the state for a democrat, bill clinton at the time. in 2002 jim doyle's margin was narrower than thompson's but still carried 23 counties, something that would be unheard of basically in this current political climate. what has changed? what does it tell us about the nation as a whole? >> jim and i are friends. >> yeah. >> but i would never -- in modern-day politics, i would not want to debate him. i wouldn't even want to talk to him because i'm afraid somebody from my right would run against me. jim would feel the same way. something from the george soros left would run against him. we have become polarized that we have redistricted that a democrat state will be a

democrat state, except on a statewide ballot but individual districts, and that's become the partisan parochialism that it is today. >> would you disagree with anything he just said there? >> no, i agree, but the reason why wisconsin is so much the center of this now, you look at the demographics, and the big divisions that have happened in the country, rural and small town against cities, big expanding economies, rural economies that are struggling. it's just in wisconsin when you add those up, it's a 50/50 state. i was the attorney general when governor thompson was governor. and we certainly had our fights. but there were times he would win 60% of the vote at the top, and the nest line down would be me and i would win 60%. >> 59%. >> i got 60. [ laughter ] >> there are no swing voters. it's two states in one.

it's really two state, right? >> it has become so partisan and so divided, that i would have to say it's almost two states. >> so to get an idea of where things stand today, check out wisconsin's nationally watched race for governor, almost dead even. by the way, if you want more of my reporting from wisconsin, check out our latest episode of "meet the press" reports. ground zero for polarization. it's on demand right now on peacock, youtube or meetthepress.com. we'll look at the role of president trump in the midterms and beyond. covered by medicare. before dexcom g6, i was frustrated. all of that finger-pricking and all of that pain, my a1c was still stuck. my diabetes was out of control. i was tired. (female announcer) dexcom g6 sends your glucose numbers to your phone or receiver without painful fingersticks. the arrow shows the direction your glucose is heading:

up, down, or steady, so you can make better decisions about food and activity in the moment. after using dexcom g6, my a1c has never been lower. i lead line dancing three times a week, i exercise, and i'm just living a great life now. it's so easy to use. dexcom g6 has given me confidence and control that everything i need is right there on my phone. (female announcer) dexcom g6 is the #1 recommended cgm system by doctors and patients. call now to get started. (bright music)

welcome back. well, mr. trump had quite a few legal challenges this week. he chose to respond to the subpoena of the january 6th committee. he didn't say what he would do but did write this, complaining about a lack of one focus of the investigation. he said, it was indeed one of the largest crowds i've ever spoken before in the ellipse,

a very wide swath, stretching all the way back to the washington moniment. the massive side of this crowd has never been a subject of your committee. is it true they have never investigated the size of the january 6th crowd. you know, it's sort of i guess not shocking that he came into office talking about his crowd sizes and he's still complaining about his crowd sizes. >> he would like the 2022 election to continue to be about him, which of course republicans would like it not to be about him. and i think the only thing that is helping republicans right now is that, while he is still trying to put himself in the center of the conversation, he's really not. and this is in the background. i think the january 6th, especially what happened this week didn't generate the kind of headlines and the kind of wall-to-wall coverage -- >> subpoena wasn't enough? >> i think voters expect, of course, he's going to be subpoenaed. if they said we believe he should be indicted, we know the real issue is until there's some

legal action taken, this is still all background noise. >> you got a defamation testimony this week in that defamation lawsuit that apparently the former president, jean carroll, that he's worried about. that happens wednesday. >> it's just over and over and over again. it's january 6th, it's mar-a-lago, this defamation case. when we talk to republicans, and you probably feel the same way, it's just too much chaos and we want you gone, please go away. and he wants to be at the center of attention all the time. >> i have to play what paul ryan said this week, something that seems both obvious and naive at the same time, i want to say. >> i think trump's unelectability will be palpable by then. we all know that he's so much more likely to lose the white house than anybody else running for president on our side of the aisle so why would we want to go with that. >> i have to remember when that was scott walker's argument in 2015 about why people need to rally around somebody other than donald trump.

>> there are about 20 republican candidates for the presidency running right now. >> who really believe this, too, right? >> who really believe that, and they can't say it, because they don't want to upset the core 20% who are with trump regardless. by the way, the democrats are running away from biden in this election, too. they do not want -- the democrats don't want biden on the stage. >> well, no, oregon democrats do. >> yeah, and the oregon governor's race is now close. >> right. >> democrats don't want biden or harris either, and republicans frankly don't want trump. and they're the ones trying to consume the tv time. >> i don't think biden -- [ all talking at once ] >> the white house seems to be fine with this. i've talked to folks at the white house, hey, we're all on the same message. >> but i also think with biden, his challenge is he hasn't been able to communicate to the american people what he's done. i mean, we can say that the difference between donald trump and the difference within biden is biden is a policy president.

so he has -- he's going to make fundamental changes for a generation. we're talking about student loan relief, bringing back manufacturing and the list goes on, but the difference with trump is that his consequence is not policy. it's his legacy of undermining elections. it's not him but he actually has a cadre of individuals right now seeking office that are election deniers and that legacy is far more dangerous for a modern-day president than any other thing because it believes in undermining our democracy. >> biden can't go on tv because our 401(k)s are down, because of the inflation, the democrats don't want him around. republicans right now the last four weeks, they just had the super pac ads. >> they do have one campaigning for them, the former democratic president who we'll see a lot of in the last three weeks anyway. terrific panel, terrific show. just 23 days.

ready, amy? >> always ready, always ready. >> remember, you can start voting in many states. get out there and vote. we're expecting over 110 million if not more. that's all we have today, we'll be back next week, because, if it's sunday, it's "meet the press." week, because, if it's sunday, it's "meet the press. because, if it's sunday, it's "meet the press." the former girlfriend made public accusations saying, you paid for an abortion and that you encouraged her to have another. in an abc news interview this week, you said that the accusations are, quote, all lies. for the voters watchin