enormous pressure. no decision has been made. they are investigating the hell out of this. it's going to be merrick garland's decision in the end. whatever he does, he'll be criticized. liberals expect an indictment. the strongest case and the much stronger investigation is the mar-a-lago case, the classified documents. i have heard the january 6th case, the sort of clear legal theory of prosecution isn't there. these stories of trump, you know, ordering someone to move box. one lead they were pursuing, and this isn't confirmed is i was told he was showing documents to people, showing them off. again that hasn't been confirmed. that would get a much stronger case. >> when he was presidential, he wasn't shy of doing so. he whipped out a kim jong un letter, hey, don't tell anyone about this. thanks to all of you for getting up "way too early" with us on this monday morning. "morning joe" starts right now.

well, if mr. walker were here, i'd ask him about this disturbing history of violence that we've seen from him. and we're not just talking about one woman, but multiple women. he threatened to kill his ex-wife. put a gun to her head. he's threatened other women, and when asked about that, he really hasn't given account for this kind of violence, and i want to know for him why he thinks he's ready to represent the people of georgia and if he's ready to face up to this history of violence. >> democratic senator rafael warnock going after his republican challenger, herschel walker who was a no show in last night's senate debate in atlanta. walker has claimed not to remember the violence. last night would have been their second meeting in two days. we'll have highlights from friday night's debate which walker did attend. we'll also preview tonight's

governor's debate in georgia as early voting gets underway in that state today. plus, the pro trump election denier running for governor of arizona refuses to say whether she will accept the election results if she loses next month. we'll play her remarks. also, another anti-semitic rant to report. this time from donald trump going after american jews, claiming they better quote get their act together before it's too late. >> he actually says -- >> oh, my god. >> they need to act more like evangelical christians. >> wonderful. we'll get reaction to that. new this morning, ukraine's capital rocked by more explosions overnight, with drones blasting buildings and sending people running for cover. we'll get a live report from kyiv. also, protests intensify in iran with the country's president now blaming president biden and the supreme leader,

claiming the regime will not be toppled, and we'll go live to china as president xi jinping is set to secure a ground breaking third term in power. we'll break down what this means for the balance of power across the globe. good morning, and welcome to "morning joe," it is monday, october 17th. with us we have the host of "way too early," and white house bureau chief at "politico," jonathan lemire, and the host of msnbc's "politics nation," president of the national action network, reverend al sharpton is with us this morning. >> we're going to get to all of that. jonathan quickly, on this anti-semitic screen that donald trump went on yesterday, a lot of observers saying that i saw yesterday at least, conservatives saying this was his worst anti-semitic rant yet. tell us, give us some reporting from it. what was it about? what was behind it? >> no one knows. it seems to have come out of nowhere, this rant from the former president over the

weekend. but he has danced very dangerous to anti-semitic remarks before, a couple moments during the campaign. his defense would be my daughter is married to someone who is jewish, therefore i can't be anti-semitic, but this is repulsive stuff, and it was widely condemned, not just by the usual democrats, there were conservatives who spoke out against this. obviously the antidefamation league and other groups worried about what this could yield, we haven't gotten anything else from the trump camp on this. we should take a moment and put this in context. this tweet comes at a moment where bias incidents and hate crimes, anti-semitic incidents are already skyrocketing, they have been on the rise in recent years, and it feels like we know the president has inspired the violence of january 6th, called for supporters to be violent

other times, related to the mar-a-lago case, sending out warnings, threats to the fbi, and the fear here is this could be interpreted by his followers as a moment to potentially commit violence against jews, and that is deeply worrisome, and we will now need to see who else steps forward and do any republican lawmakers also condemn these remarks in the days ahead. >> well, and again, i mean, even the fine line, jews need to basically get their act together before it's too late, obviously deeply disturbing because it's not sending a dog whistle. >> screaming out loud. >> there were some observers that said as always it's not about jews in israel, it's not about jews in america, it's always about donald trump. over three out of four jews in america voted for joe biden, so there are people close to him that suggest that still wrangles

him that he got beaten so badly among jewish voters in america, but to do that, and say basically they better get their act together before it's too late, sounds ominous. it sounds ominous like saying that mitch mcconnell has a quote death wish. >> he's got a lot. republicans appear, by the way, to have a narrow but distinct advantage. roughly three weeks away from the midterm elections. the latest "new york times" sienna college found 49% of likely voters said they plan to vote for a republican to represent them in congress. compared with 45% who plan to vote for a democrat. that is an improvement from last month when democrats held a one point advantage among likely voters in this poll. the economy and inflation are the two top issues followed by the state of democracy, abortion and immigration. >> the thing is reverend al, you

can talk about abortion, the state of democracy, immigration, those numbers, though, not only down low in that poll, regarding what most americans are concerned about, but over the past three or four weeks, that's even one poll after another, the economy, inflation, always near the top. there's one poll that showed democracy, i think, nbc poll had it number 2. other than that, it's always been about the economy. it's always been about inflation. you have an overwhelming number of americans believing that the country is going in the wrong direction. and so that is becoming, as we get further and further into this campaign, that's becoming more of a burden on democrats, especially after last week's terrible inflation report came out that showed inflation is still red hot. >> you can deny reality but you can't escape it. the fact of the matter is as

much as i and others want to deal with the fact that democracy is at stake here, and there are many issues in criminal justice, people are reacting to their own economic condition. when you look at the fact that gas prices are going back up, groceries are going up, your 401(k) plans, looking at the headlines this morning, are taking a 25% hit. this is where people live, and the democrats have to address and deal with that, certainly it is not, in my opinion, the fault of this administration or the democrats that win that condition. tax cuts to the wealthy and other things are the reasons that we began this slow walk here, and you just talk about things that were not immediately the concern of people, you lose their votes and you lose their ear. people are concerned about pocketbook problems. >> and mika, it's something we talk about all the time here. we said it last week.

said it to our panel in washington, that, yes, crime is a huge issue, and you talk to americans, they're focused on that. they're focused on inflation. even when they're making more money, they feel every week like they're falling further and further behind. i remember how that was all consuming with my family when inflation was skyrocketing in the 70s. my dad would go past the circle k store on summit boulevard in pensacola, florida, and you would see gas prices go from 35 cents to 50 cents to 75 cents to over a dollar. at that point, you're like, i don't really follow, people say i don't follow the news that much. just something has to change. >> it does. >> so all of these issues that we talk about that matter so much to the state of democracy that women are concerned about because it has to do with their freedom, their choice to make decisions about their bodies, their lives, their futures,

people care about that. but what's in front of them every single day. they're looking at the grocery prices, they're looking at their gas prices. they're looking at the fact they can't even afford a used car because that market's skyrocketing. they're looking at rent, if you're a young voter, sure, you love the fact if you're a young voter that maybe your college loans were forgiven, maybe you like -- i'm old, so i don't like it. maybe you like what he did on marijuana. all of these things maybe for younger voters sound great but then they're trying to buy their first house, and they can't do it because the costs have exploded and bauds interest rates are so high. this is going to be a real challenge for democrats over the next three weeks, and right now, history is in the republicans' favor, and now, again, the latest in inflation report shows

inflation really burdening democratic candidates across the country. >> it's not like you can think of anything else when your own personal economy is struggling and you look around and the environment is changing. your community is changing. people are leaving. some people have to move away. >> crime is rising. >> crime is rising in a way where you hear people talking about it, you might even see it in your community, and that makes a big -- before you think on anything else, it's the first thing you're going to think about. now, early voting begins today in georgia. and we are watching a tight race that could determine the balance of power in washington. polls have consistently shown democratic senator raphael warnock with a slight lead over his republican challenger, herschel walker. the latest survey has the incumbent, warnock with a three-point lead, just within the margin of error. the nominees went head-to-head on friday night, and walker's strategy was clear, tie the

democrat to president joe biden. >> this race ain't about me. it's about what raphael warnock, and joe biden had done to you and your family. they don't show any strength, and we have to protect this country. can you tell me why he voted with joe biden 96% of the time if he was standing for georgia, that tells you that he's for joe biden, i'm for georgia. >> it is very clear that my opponent would rather be running against anybody except me. >> if there are only two people who are going to sit in this seat, me or my opponent, and i think this race is about who's ready to represent the people of georgia. >> the candidates also clashed over the issue of abortion as walker, who claims he has antiabortion, again denied allegations that he paid for the procedure for an ex-girlfriend, and urged her to get a second one. >> i said that's a lie, and on

abortion, i'm a christian, i believe in life, and i tell people this, georgia is a state that respects life and i'll be a senator that protects life, and i say that was a lie, and i'm not backing down. >> i think that the women of this country and the women of this state woke up one summer morning and a core protection that they've known for 50 years was taken from them by an extremist supreme court. and i stand where i said i stand in the past. a patient's room is too narrow for a woman, her doctor, and the united states government. we are witnessing right now what happens when politicians, most of them men, pile into patients' rooms. you get what you're seeing right now, and the women of georgia deserve a senator who will stand with them. i trust women more than i trust

politicians. >> there was also an odd moment when walker tried to defend himself after being accused of misrepresenting himself as a member of law enforcement. take a look. >> one thing i have not done. i have never pretended to be a police officer. and i've never threatened a shoot out with the police. and now i have to respond to that. >> we are moving on, gentlemen. >> i have to respond to that. you know what's so funny, i am -- police officers. >> mr. walker, excuse me, please, out of respect, i have need to let you know, mr. walker, you are very well aware of the rules tonight. >> yes. >> and you have a prop. that is not allowed, sir. i ask you to put that prop away. >> that's not a problem.

>> he said i never worked in law enforcement. >> it is considered a prop, mr. walker. you're very well aware of the rules. aren't you? aren't you aware of the rules. >> he brought up the truth. let's talk about the truth. >> thank you for putting that prop away. >> this is from my hometown. this is from johnson county from the sheriff of johnson county, which is a legit badge. everyone can make fun. this badge gives me the right. >> let me finish. >> if anything happened in this county, itch the right to work with the police in getting things done. >> does that have arresting authority. >> they can call me whenever they want to, but i have the authority to do things for them. >> he can work with the community. it's an honorary badge. the national sheriff's office association said the badge is like a trophy. it's for a trophy case. not to flash in public. there was another georgia debate last night. herschel walker wasn't there

calling it a one-sided sham. let's take a look. oh, you don't have any sound. >> that's it. you can see it right there. >> we played some of that before. let's bring in right now political reporter for the atlanta journal constitution, greg bluestein, a couple of observations that i had when i saw the first debate, and i heard from a lot of other observers. war knock in his first debate with walker seemed almost detached, almost robotic. he certainly did not sound like a preacher of the ebenezer baptist church, and he didn't seem to really find his footing until walker wasn't there last night. on the other side of it, walker's handlers were thrilled, saying it was the best debate that walker could have had.

that was damming with faint praise. but were you hearing similar reports on the ground? >> i saw, even democrats were saying they were surprised herschel walker held his own. he handled himself, he didn't collapse on the debate stage in a sense. that debate on friday night could have easily focused almost entirely on herschel walker's personal baggage, and it didn't. you know, there was only a few questions about abortion, about his past history of violent behavior and erratic behavior, and lies and falsehoods, conspiracy theory, and instead it was mostly focused on other issues. in that sense, it played against senator war knock because it didn't focus on so many of the issues that had been dominating the local and national coverage of this campaign. and look, herschel walker had to basically show his campaign wasn't on the verge of collapse, and also give reason for some of these republicans to back him and his allies, along with democrats feel like, you know,

he did that. >> so greg, why -- any news from the warnock camp on why the senator waited for her shel -- herschel walker to be absent from the debate stage that most expected him to go after them on friday night. >> you know, he is a skilled orator, the pastor of ebenezer baptist church, but he has only participated in a few political debates in his experience. he's not a veteran politician, so some of the supporters said the debate stage doesn't suit him either. he was much more comfortable last night. he had some of the sharpest attacks i have ever heard on herschel walker last night. >> you wrote about the debate. friday's debate performance didn't erase walker's

vulnerability, he came out punching and intersecting as he tried to knock warnock off message. warnock was more cautious and deliberate, but also gave democrats reason to cheer, and i do agree with that. i guess, you know, if you want a brawl. >> no, you don't want a brawl. >> if you're going to say something about somebody on sunday night, if you're going to get aggressive and go after him on sunday night, jonathan lemire, the question is why are you muted and reserved when they're actually right there in front of you on friday night. it was a really, i must say, it was a -- i'll just put it this way. it was a surprising performance, a very muted performance performance by warnock on friday night, and saturday night, him coming out swinging is kind of like the atlanta braves coming out swinging in batting practice on sunday night.

too late. >> i think that reference is too soon for our braves fan currently talking to us, joe. but you're right, i heard from some democrats friday night, and again over the weekend who were a little disappointed with what happened on friday. i'll be clear, they thought warnock was all right. they were surprised that walker did okay. now, again, let's be clear. we're talking expectations game here. you know, if he hadn't tripped over himself on his way to the podium, that would be an upgrade to what they thought he would do friday night. warnock was better on most issues but didn't deliver a knock out blow that dems were hoping would happen. it was also surprising how little time during the debate was actually spent about the abortion issue and the claims that walker, you know, paid for this abortion from a former girlfriend, and she says wanted her to get a second. he denied it again, there wasn't a lot of follow up. there didn't seem like there was a moment that warnock seized upon. do we think that's going to

remain his strategy to this point, to sort of leave that alone? if so, what will warnock's closing argument be? >> it was about a minute of the hour long debate, a brief exchange in the debate. this has been senator warnock's strategy, though, he hasn't played into it. he calls it a pattern of disturbing behavior for herschel walker, but he doesn't lean into it. he doesn't want to further unite republicans against him is the strategy there. he has leaned very hard into the other issues that have plagued herschel walker's campaign, including violence against women, including his ex-wife, cindy grossman. that's been a factor throughout this campaign, and something his campaign ads have inundated the atlanta air waves with footage of grossman talking about that past abuse. >> greg, let me ask you this, i was in atlanta thursday night and i was a little surprised that a lot of people on the ground that seemed to say they were giving herschel walker more

than a chance, which is beyond to me, common sense, but the reality is that going into the debate, the dope wasn't as dope but tonight we have stacey abrams, and brian kemp. you're dealing with two different political animals than you dealt with friday and saturday night. they're both experienced. they're both very good on the stage. stacey abrams probably one of the best on her feet in political america. what would you predict would be the strategies and what's at stake for both of them tonight because the gubernatorial race is being polled much differently. >> not only are they both experienced, they're experienced with each other.

this is a rematch. they know each other's strengths and weaknesses. the poll show stacey abrams with a sizable deficit, 5 to 10 points in recent polls. she's got to energize her base of supporters. she has been looking to do that with events targeting african-american voters, younger voters, she'll look to continue to do this with the debate, firing up her supporters. governor kemp has to basically tread water. he has to come out without any big gaffes, big blunders because he feels like he is so far ahead in the polls, he doesn't want to do anything to energize the other side. >> political reporter for "the atlanta journal constitution," thank you so much, and in the next few days, president obama will be traveling to georgia and wisconsin to support democrats. so we'll be watching for that. and still ahead on "morning joe," we're covering a number of big headlines from overseas this morning. first we'll go live to ukraine

on the heels of new russian missile strikes in kyiv. nbc's cal perry is standing by. plus a live report from teheran, following a massive and deadly prison fire there. this as nationwide protests in iran enter a fifth week. and as china's president xi jinping opens the chinese communist party congress with a warning to taiwan, janis mackey frayer will joining us from beijing. you're watching "morning joe," we'll be right back. you're watching "morning joe," we'll be right back. for sure. seriously? one up the power of liquid, one up the toughest stains. any further questions? uh uh! one up the power of liquid with tide pods ultra oxi.

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depleted military stockpile is being replenished by iran. which is preparing to send even more weapons to vladimir putin's army in the coming days. joining us from kyiv, nbc news correspondent cal perry, what are you seeing there this morning? >> reporter: good morning, ka, -- mika, a chaotic morning, about an hour and 15 minutes later, there was a second wave. we know it was 28 drones, according to the mayor, that were fired at kyiv this morning. five of them making it through and striking the building that you see on your screen now. a very difficult scene to watch. we were just there. we have just come back. these pictures, there are people we believe still trapped in the building. at least three people are dead at the scene. four wounded. more than a dozen people were rescued. these drones are doing very

clearly significant damage. the government had warned for a long time that the russians would move from these cruise missiles to these drones. this morning it was clear. you could hear it, it sounded and they called them here mopeds, they sound like mopeds, they fly slow, and again they're trying to overwhelm the air defenses. the other thing we have not seen is small arms fire, machine gunfire from the ground. soldiers firing into the air, trying to knock drones ouch the sky. the problem is even if you knock them out of the sky, they are starting large fires as they impact on the ground and into these buildings. the last thing i'll leave you with. this neighborhood has been struck on four separate occasions. it's clear to us, the russians are trying to hit, but they continually miss and hit residential areas. today it was obvious, we knew what they were trying to hit. they hit the residential building and now you have more casualties on the ground, guys. >> nbc's cal perry, thank you very much. >> and now we turn to iran where

a massive fire broke out this weekend at the country's evin prison. an iranian state news agency reports at least eight prisoners died in the fire while over 60 people were injured. as you can see here, video captures the moments that large plumes of smoke rise from the facility, which is located in the capital city of teheran. the state news agency reporting that prisoners intentionally set fire to a workshop and warehouse full of clothes in a bid to escape. with some even trying to exit by way of a minefield north of the prison, leading to additional explosions. this all follows widespread protests within the country. following the death one month ago of mahsa amini, a

22-year-old woman in the hospital three days after being arrested by the morality police. joining us with more, nbc bureau chief ali arouzi. >> reporter: the fire was extraordinary, and sent panic throughout teheran. the inferno could be seen north of teheran, and it's important to point out, mika, as you said, evin prison is in the north of teheran. behind it are mountains and in front of it is an entire residential neighborhood. a lot of residents whose apartments overlook evin prison were in realtime explaining what they were seeing and what they were hearing. at about 7:30 local time, news broke out that there was a fire, and immediately when we saw images of the fire, you could hear the constant sound of gunfire ringing for about four or five hours. and the sound of explosions.

initially they said those explosions were caused by prisoners trying to escape through a minefield. then they retracted that, and the stories kept coming out from local media were different. it's not clear what the source of the fire was or what was going on behind the prison walls. initially they said nobody had died. then they said four people had died, and now today the judiciary is saying eight people have died, and there are also conflicting errors about a prison guard that may have died in evin, and other state agencies here are saying he might have died in the protests on the street. it's all very confusing what's going on here. and this is all happening amidst the protests and when a fire like that breaks out at evin, it becomes more difficult for the government to contain the masses. there was a massive traffic jam leading to evin that night. you could see cars had swarmed across the entire area, people concerned, people trying to get to their loved ones there, and the road was blocked, and people were just honking their horns in

anger, trying to get to evin as special forces were surrounding the prison, and every day, mika, is bringing a new drama to iran. outside of iran yesterday, there's a competitor, a woman, she represents iran in the asian climbing competitions. she was in the finals in seoul yesterday, and she refused to wear her head scarf in the finals of that tournament. as far as i know, no female athlete representing iran in the last 43 years has ever dared to pull a stunt like that. she went into the finals without her head scarf, and i can tell you, that's going to be a huge inspiration to many people on the streets, especially women risking their life and their liberty to protest the mandatory head scarf. every day, something phenomenal is happening. look, these protests started over the death of mahsa amini. people were outraged about that. they went out into the streets,

but this is now becoming a much bigger organic, home-grown movement that's being led by women, school girls, mothers, fathers, grandparents coming out on to the street. it's encompassing a very wide section of society, regardless of their socioeconomic background. you see very conservative women protesting the mandatory hijabs. these protests have created a seismic shift in society not seen here before, and things can't go back to the way they were before, but what that means for the future is completely uncertain. because every day brings a new drama and more uncertainty in iran as the ruling establishment face a crisis that they have never seen before, and it's just not clear how this is all going to pan out. >> ali, talk about the pacing of the protests this past weekend at the end of last week, do they continue unabated? obviously security forces have

become far more aggressive, taking even -- using deadly measures to stop the protests, and does it continue unabated? >> reporter: yeah, the protests continue. they ebb and flow. protests are exhausting for people. they're up against columns and columns of security forces, which is exhausting for them as well, by all accounts that we're reading. apparently morale amongst security forces is low as well. the protests have been going on for a month now. they do ebb and flow, sometimes they're not as big, they're very scattered, they're small pockets, and sometimes massive amounts of people come out, depending on what activists and others encourage people to do. they're not showing signs of abating. we're not seeing mass strikes in the oil sector, that could cripple the country, but you're seeing individual strikes, shops

are closing, businesses are closing as a response to the crackdown that's going on in the country. the country isn't even functioning, joe. the internet hasn't worked for a month. universities are all online, and when the internet doesn't work, how are students meant to study online. all of the universities are a hot bed of dissent. every day they're chanting against the regime. it ebbs and flows, and some days the protests are extraordinarily violent, and on both sides, and this is something that we haven't really seen before. this time now, you're seeing the protesters strike back very violently. in 2009, a lot of the times when you would see the protesters grab a security individual, you would hear the crowd say let him go, let him go, these days they're encouraging the people that are beating up the security officials to go even harder on them. all bets are really off in this country right now. >> nbc's ali arouzi, thank you very much for your reporting. it seems many women in iran have

made a decision that they are not turning back from, and the men who care about them are with them. we travel to china now where president xi jinping is set to secure a historic third term in power. yesterday, a week long meeting opened in beijing where xi is expected to be reappointed as leader. the move would reaffirm a commitment to his policies for the next five years. and possibly elevate his status as one of the most powerful leaders in china's modern history. joining us live now from beijing is nbc news foreign correspondent janis mackey frayer. janis? >> reporter: it was xi jinping's comments on taiwan that got the loudest and most sustained applause at the opening address yesterday when he declared that taiwan will unify with the mainland. and it's not that that statement is breaking any new ground.

it's long been the position, and it came with the warning that china will use force if necessary, especially if there's interference from the u.s. but what i found different from past statements and certainly from the speech xi jinping gave in 2017 is that taiwan unification now sounds less like an aspiration or a slogan, and more a statement of fact, so that was seen as a sign that taiwan will be central to xi next term. how long that term is will be decided by xi jinping himself. the party congress happens twice in a decade. this one significant because xi will assume this third term in power, which is precedent breaking, and it also starts to move china into more uncomfortable territory in terms of the degree of power that now lies with a single leader. in his speech, it was 104

minutes, he mentioned security and safety more than 70 times. he pumped up a stronger chinese military, and he also warned of dangerous storms ahead. he didn't name the united states, but he did allude to challenges facing china and high winds, alluding to the fact that relations have certainly hardened under xi jinping's rule. people will also be watching to see if there's any sign of a successor and who might be on the path. back in 2012, this is my third party congress, back in 2012, before xi jinping took power, some journalists were invited to observe a dinner at the great hall of the people, and i went and there were some people with binoculars, and they were looking less to see who was clinking glasses as they were doing a toast, to see who wasn't clinking glasses because those are the nuanced signs that are part of this political season to

find out where the loyalties lie. the one thing that does seem clear right now even with the conflict getting underway is that xi jinping will take on this new realm of power and he is uncontested and his power appears to be complete. >> nbc's janis mackey frayer, thank you very much for your reporting this morning. we're going to have more ahead on the significance of this chinese summit. the counsel on foreign relatives, richard haass joins us, plus, a troublesome start for the new british prime minister, liz truss, whose economic policies are being blamed for triggering a financial crisis. emergency central bank intervention and the firing of her treasury chief. steve rattner joins us with charts and context next on "morning joe." with arts and context next on "morning joe."

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baltimore is going to play straight up defense on first and goal. up top, touchdown, saquon barkley. here's cook, first down, still going, inside the 30. cook, inside the 10, the 5, touchdown. burrow throwing, this side of the field. jamar chase, up the sideline, to the east side, for the touchdown. >> taking a deep shot for pierce, down the field, he's got it. touchdown. trap play inside, and a beauty, running free, inside the 10, he's going to score. >> chopping him on the other side, they're down, 10, looking for a plot from myers, kiss him good-bye. >> allen, looking long, throws

to the end zone and the ball is caught. stafford, robinson, jump ball touchdown. >> kenneth walker, walker with a move to the goal line, and that's a seahawks touchdown. >> boy, some of the biggest touchdowns from the teams in week six of the nfl season yesterday. there were some surprises. we saw highlights there, of course the bills and the chief, the game of the week without a doubt, but the vikings and the eagles. just keep winning, and the sunday night game, philadelphia eagles, they hosted the dallas cowboys, and philly quarterback, jalen hurts gave alabama fans at least one thing to get excited about this weekend. he threw for 155 yards, while dallas qb cooper rush was intercepted three times in the games. the eagles, a shocker, remained the only unbeaten team in the nfl improving to 6-0 for the

first time since 2004 with their 26-17 victory over the cowboys, and boy, what a great time to be a philadelphia sports fan. the city also gearing up for a potential trip to the world series as the phillies had to san diego for game one of the national league championship series against the padres who shocked the dodgers. and that's tomorrow night. meanwhile, in the american league, the yankees and cleveland are going to meet up in game five of the alds tonight to figure out who's going to advance to face the houston astros for the american league title. gerrit cole came through. harrison bader homered for the third time this series, as the yankees meet the guardians 4-2, and this is sort of a rough transition, because, well, i don't want to talk to him right now. >> why? >> we just showed these positive

highlights from new york teams, but i have to do it. >> you have to be professional. >> former treasury official and economic analyst, steve rattner. richard haass, the yankees, the jets, and the giants, and throw the bills on top of there, what a sports weekend for new york. huh? >> great sports weekend for new york. we were just talking here about the odds you get in vegas, for giants, jets super bowl. just putting it on the table, since the subway series didn't work out. we'll see what happens tonight. the only problem is if the yankees win, they got to play the astros. >> yeah. let's get to what's going on right now. and richard, we have live reports out of kyiv, beijing, also out of teheran, take those on one at a time, and highlight what you think our viewers need

to know the most about each of those crises. >> in terms of ukraine, what we see is continued russian efforts to compensate for what they cannot do on the battlefield by essentially continuing with indiscriminate attacks, now drones as opposed to cruise missiles, against ukrainian cities, economic targets, energy depots, and the rest. and i think that's the strategy. we almost have two wars going on, joe, we have a battlefield war, which ukraine is winning and off the battlefield war which russia is trying to break the will. there's nothing in history, there's nothing i know about ukraine that suggests to me that russia will succeed in this, but i think what we're now seeing is what we're going to see for some time. in teheran and iran, this is going broader and deeper than any of us, i think that most people predicted, and the reason is it's not just as significant as it is about women's rights and human rights, it's also about just economic performance or the lack of it, deep malaise.

the regime is now running out of instruments, so now they're going to bring out their big one. they're going to bring out the revolutionary guards, the guys with the sticks. they're going to bring out people who are not going to have qualms about acting with violence. as we learned actually when the shah was overthrown 40 years ago, what matters now is how long the security forces are willing to hurt and kill protesters, and at what point the unity of the security forces breaks. we're going to find that out. >> richard, they're killing teenage girls first of all, and going back to ukraine, this regime, who some people in the biden administration still want to strike a deal with, this regime is not only killing teenage girls inside of their own country, they are coconspirators in war crimes in kyiv, because it is their weapons that are killing women and children in kyiv. how do we deal with these

people? >> i think there's zero chance right now the united states reenters the 2015 nuclear deal, the so called jcpa, zero chance of what would happen if we entered that deal, in exchange for parking, not solving the iran nuclear problem for a number of years, iran could get out from under sanctions. that would provide an economic lifeline to this oppressive and aggressive regime. there's zero chance that happens anytime soon if ever. that's put the kibash on the nuclear deal. >> why in the world would the saudis, why would mbs help russia who's being helped by their mortal enemy, iran, and as i said, again, iran, coconspirators in russia's war crimes against the ukrainian people, why in the world would

they align themselves with russia and iran. >> you're asking why isn't the saudi leadership acting more materially. the administration offered them a deal, said we will put a floor under the price of oil. we will buy extra oil from you in order to fill the strategic petroleum reserves. don't worry. don't do the production cuts. the saudis didn't do that. that suggests to me they're not thinking strategically about the threat they face from iran and how the united states is going to have to back them. they wanted to send a message to the biden administration. they deny that, but i just don't see any other explanation for it. it seems to me they are acting impulsively and not acting strategically at all. >> richard, a lot of eyes also on beijing the last few days, the communist party conference is there. xi jinping making his bid to remain in power for another term. give us a few take aways what you heard from him, about the

bellicose rhetoric about taiwan and also about china's policy and covid policies at least to this point have ham strung the nation's growth. have you heard anything about that. >> he's created and is going to be the inheritor of an economic inbox. the covid policy which is dysfunctional. they have more financial problems than you can count. a lot of people who had invested in real estate, their savings, older people are really vulnerable. you've got a demographic problem, drought in china. you add it up. so right now, xi jinping has created a terrible situation for himself and what he articulated, back to the future, a more repressive regime, politically. a more state-controlled economy, like the jack ma's of the world have no place in this china, and more aggressive in terms of foreign policy, and that's what

scares me. the combination of not having economic performance. he's appealing to nationalism. this is the future legitimacy of the regime, we're going to bring about the quote unquote rejuvenation of china. bringing taiwan in, whether it wants to come in or not, and it clearly doesn't. i think this is a warning message to us. what i see this as saying is he, china, he xi jinping is going to wait three, four, five years, and they're ready. they're economically becoming more self-sufficient, less vulnerable to western sanctions. we have a few years to militarily and economically put our ducks in a row so we can put into place adequate deterrence against china. taiwan i don't think is an immediate problem, unlike the other two stories, ukraine, iran, those are now problems. i think taiwan is a three, four, five, six year problem, and the real question to me is who uses this warning time better, xi jinping in china or is it the

united states, taiwan, japan, and other countries. do we organize ourselves so xi jinping in a few years, no matter how much he wants to move against taiwan will back off because he'll realize the costs would be too great. >> and steve rattner, i know the kids from brighton, to northern most parts of thailand are here, they want to see your charts, obviously on the train wreck that is the british government. but before we do that, and talk about liz truss, let's talk about china for a minute. as richard alluded to. xi gets ultimate power at a time when the economy is just battered from a zero covid policy, demographic problems, the fact that hong kong has been severely compromised as the center of economic growth, and you go down the list.

jack ma, of course, that case proving what other entrepreneurs in china know, that xi is not their ally. in fact, if they get too successful, he's their enemy. just really a dark cloud, a gathering storm over the chinese economy. what can you tell us about the disastrous move, at least i believe, he's made over the past five years, and what kind of impact that's going to have on china and the years to come in this next five-year term where he seeks ultimate power. >> yeah, joe, you've listed it exactly right in terms of a lot of fact that this is weighing on the chinese economy at the moment. i would add to it, xi's own policies in which he has been circumscribing market activities, under the pattern of prosperity, which has reached epic proportions, he ended up acting very capriciously against

different industries, shutting some down, circumscribing others, and all of that did have a major impact on the chinese economy. in his speech at the party congress, it was also disappointing because he barely referred to the market economy, and when he did, it was in fairly halfhearted terms, and so people are perceiving that there's going to be increased state control over the economy. the state owned companies which they had been moving away from, obviously inefficient and unproductive, they're now moving back toward in terms of where they're putting capital, where they're putting emphasis, it's going to be a much more highly regulated economy than it was, and so all of that is unnerving for china as much as for the rest of the world. i do want to put this in a little bit of context. china is going to grow 3 1/2% or something like that this year. we're going to grow approximately zero. inflation is 3 and 4%, over 8% at the moment. they have plenty of economic problems. a 20% youth unemployment problem that they're going to have to

try to address, as well as this broader question, which is what kind of economy do they want to run. what he was doing, the financial regulators were trying to loosen up restrictions on stock investments overseas to bolster the market. the reaction of the stock market was muted and particularly the tech companies came out, at least perceived to have come out of this unscathed, no further unscathed than what they are. they lay out a formal economic plan, until then, reading a lot of tea leaves. >> let's go from beijing to london, and the british, how do the british solve a problem like liz truss. >> they can solve the problem of liz truss by getting somebody besides liz truss to take that job. indeed, there's a lot of speculation going on in the uk

that they might happen, but in the meantime, they are stuck with her. as you know, they have walked back now much of the economic program that they first unveiled a few weeks ago. but fundamentally, the british economy is a weak economy, and they have some real structural and performance issues they have to deal with, and this chart is really giving you the punch lineup, so to speak. real wages after you adjust for inflation have not gone up before the financial crisis. they went down, came up, and now with inflation in the uk, they are right back where they started and you can see on the red line, our real wages, which are nothing to brag about, compared to if you went back further in history. at least we got up to a 15% real wage increase before that red line turned down, which is really inflation, not so much wages. and so why is this happening. it's happening, really fundamentally because britain has suffered from low investment. you can see on the left, the

pace of their investment versus the pace of our investment, and it suffered, as a result of that, from low productivity. productivity, which is how much each worker produces is the holy grail of performance. you can see, again, their productivity growth, which was decent until around the financial crisis, really kind of flat lined, absolutely fantastic in our history, but moving up. and the consequence of all of that as you can see on the last chart here is their growth rate has been really slow, and again, you can see if you go back before the financial crisis, the u.s., germany, the uk were kind of tracking not that far apart. it's never been the greatest economy in the world, but it was doing okay. now it has slipped further and further behind, and lost an enormous amount of ground to germany as well as to us. and so that's fundamentally, i think, what lies behind the british political instability at the moment. you've had so many prime ministers, so many chancellors, so many economic plans, and

they're still not nearly out of the woods. >> to what extent do you think brexit in any way was a contributor to this, and does it in any way lead to something of a new debate about britain's relationship with europe? >> it's a great question, richard. it obviously doesn't relate to everything that happened before brexit, in terms of particularly why i showed you 15 years of economic performance. a lot of that does pre-date brexit. there's no way to prove the impact of brexit today. anecdotally people will tell you it's had an impact, the uncertainty about the irish backstop border has curtailed investment for the moment, and has had economic impact. you know, whether it won't change the attitude toward brexit, we'll see, virtually a 50/50 vote. it's true that britain decided not to join the euro when it was created and a lot of the same commentary existed then as now. low investment, countries isolated, whatever, and that worked out okay. we'll have to see. i don't think under this prime

minister there's going to be any revisiting of brexit. if there's enough political change it could well happen. >> steve rattner and richard haass, thank you both very much for your insight and context this morning. we want to turn now at two minutes past the top of the hour back to the midterms and republicans appearing to have a narrow but distinct advantage roughly three weeks away from the elections. the latest "new york times" sienna college poll finds 49% of likely voters said they plan to vote for a republican to represent them in congress. compared with 45% who plan to vote for a democrat. that's an improvement from last month when democrats held a one-point advantage among likely voters in this poll. the economy and inflation are the top two issues followed by the state of democracy, abortion, and immigration. meanwhile, early voting begins today in georgia where a crucial senate race could determine

control of the upper chamber. this as nbc news speaks exclusively with republican candidate herschel walker. nbc news correspondent josh lederman has more. >> reporter: barely three weeks out from election day, who will win the senate is anyone's guess, including in georgia where early voting kicks off. the senate race is key to republicans' push to win back the majority. herschel walker speaking to kristen welker about why he flashed a badge in friday's debate and whether he's pretending to be a police officer. >> where is this one from? >> this is from my hometown, the sheriff of johnson county, which is a legit badge. everyone can make fun. let me finish. if anything happened in this county, i have the right to work with the police in getting things done. >> reporter: walker saying he's participated in training and leadership programs with law enforcement for years.

>> reporter: does that have arrested authority or is it an honorary badge. the national sheriff's office association said an honorary badge is for the trophy case. why make the decision to flash it at the debate. >> reporter: the johnson county sheriff confirms to nbc news he gave walker the badge and could enlist walker's help in a crisis. the georgia race one of many that are tightening as the election approaches. in iowa, long time gop senator chuck grassley facing a surprisingly close rate. and dr. mehmet oz and john fetterman are neck in neck. sending in heavy hitters, president biden and former president barack obama both hitting the campaign trail in the race's final weeks. >> i think people are going to show up and vote. i think it's going to work. >> let's bring back in jonathan lemire and the reverend al sharpton. jonathan, the house, if you look

at history, if you look at the latest inflation report, at this point, i would be very surprised if republicans didn't have a good night in the house. there would have to be a historic occurrence. a lot of democrats still hoping that the overturning of roe would cause, let's just say, some hidden trend lines we're not seeing in the polls there. in the senate, though, right now at least it still seems to be up for grabs. you've got nevada, which is leaning right now republican. that's a republican pickup. pennsylvania leaning democratic. that would be a democratic pickup. and then in the middle, you've got wisconsin, looks like republicans will hold there. arizona, right now it looks like democrats will hold there. so suddenly, you're looking at ohio. which you would think would lean republican, tim ryan running a

good race, and georgia, democratic with all of the problems herschel walker has. no one knows in the races, north carolina still way too close. maybe abortion makes a difference there, and then i'm not really sure what to make of it. i would love to get your insight and the rev's insight. iowa, the most respected pollster in iowa saying that actually chuck grassley is in a fight for political survival. and then i keep seeing random polling coming out of utah. not sure whether mike lee is in trouble from evan mcmullen or not. but polls suggest it's closer there than many would expect. the house looks like republicans ought to be doing well. the senate, my gosh, we could go anywhere from republicans three up to democrats two or three up. what are you seeing, what are you hearing from the parties?

>> briefly on the house, first, we've used this stat to show several times but republicans don't have to win a single district that joe biden captured in 2020 in order to flip the house. because of redistricting. a few months ago, people thought republicans would sweep the house, huge margins. no one thinks that anymore. consensus is republicans by a few seats. the senate, though, analysts and party leaders, both sides suggest that, yes, nevada, the most likely republican pickup, pennsylvania, despite that race tightening, despite some concerns about john fetterman that is still the most likely democratic pickup, and some democrats i talked to over the weekend said they feel a little better about that race now than they did say a week ago. iowa is interesting. that came out of nowhere, that poll. chuck grassley is about a thousand years old, and that's a concern. also i think there's some iowans who have concerns about his

stance on january 6th related issues. this is the first time this race has been talked about as a significant chance for the d's to pick up. democrats are more bullish about north carolina. i keep hearing that's the race to watch for. that's the one that's going to break late for d's. we'll have to see. it hasn't happened yet, though polls are close. there's a real scenario here, joe, because i'm not finding people in either party who really think the dems can take ohio. if that all plays out. this is going to come down to one state. that state is georgia. and might come down to one state and a runoff, like it did in 2020. democrats feel confident they can pull it out. boy, it's going to be close. >> look at races right now that can go either way, nevada, pennsylvania, wisconsin, even though that's really seeming to trend more republican. ohio, arizona, even though that's a bit more safe for democrats. georgia, who in the world knows, throw iowa in there, if you believe that poll.

i still think iowa is getting deeper red by the day. and then north carolina. let's bring in right now to the conversation, mark mckinney, cocreator of "the circus" on show time. this reminds me of 2014, we didn't know which way things were going. kay hagan and thom tillis were battling back and forth. kay hagan were up one to two points. everything seemed to break for republicans just enough to make it a big night for republicans. right now, hard to say, isn't it? what's your latest take from what you see out there. >> it feels a lot like that, joe. i think this election has gone in three waves. one is the spring where republicans looked like they would have a huge advantage, it would be a big red wave then the

dobbs decision, and legislative accomplishments by the president, so democrats kind of got their mojo back, and i was in ohio last week with vance when that inflation news broke, and you could feel the chill that that set in kind of the whole electorate and as people turned back to economic issues which of course is an advantage for republicans. i agree with you, it feels a lot like 2014. people are kind of, you know, we get complicated about this at the end of the day. people are like, i don't feel so good, maybe put the other team in. >> mark, we want to play part of a conversation you had with another former republican strategist, tim miller "the circus," you look back on the 2008 presidential campaign and how the current state of the republican party can be traced back to the nomination of sarah palin for preponderate. -- for vice president. take a look. >> i revere john mccain, and when he asked me to be his chief

media adviser for his '08 presidential run, i said i'll mow your lawn in sedona if you want me to, and i have one caveat, i have met this guy, barack obama, i like him. i don't agree with all of his politics, but he's going to run for the democratic nomination. if he gets it, i would be uncomfortable being the tip of sphere attacking this guy. i mean, i think his candidacy would be good for the country, so i walked away from the campaign. >> that had to be tough. >> it's the hardest thing i have done professionally. a foreshadowing that things were going to get ugly, that mccain would be kind of dragged in a direction that i wouldn't have been totally comfortable with. and sure enough, he picks sarah palin, and that's to me when things began to go off the rails for the republican party. they called me in like october and said, may day, we need you. i'll come down for a night and do debate prep. we're at the ranch, she rolls in

with her posey, tons of personality. she's like you're the traitor who walked from the campaign. this woman has got juice, and we go in later to do the debate prep, and ten minutes later, and she locks up completely. and it's a pretty basic question. what would our basic foreign policy be towards nato, and she's like what's nato, and then everything like stops. we all walk outside. mark lawson stares at me, what do you think, oh, god, we are -- [ bleep ] people see, she was a sobbing wet mess. she's like, i can't do this. i'm going to embarrass mccain. i'm going to embarrass the party. i'm going to embarrass the country, but four or five nights later. >> nice to meet you. can i call you joe? >> she cleared the bar, which is all you got to do. it's all about expectations. and she beat expectations. >> the interesting thing to me

about that story is it shows sarah palin, the human, because i think it was a bottom up thing that turned her into what she became. she's out there on the stages at the events. what are the people cheering for? >> our opponent is someone who sees america as imperfect enough to pal around with terrorists who targeted their own country. >> the voters didn't want a campaign finance reform sarah palin, right, they want the antielite grievance sarah palin. >> and to me, that's a critical point that i look at. lots of things have happened over the last decade or two to bring us to where we are today. at the time, i don't think anyone could have predicted that the monster would have blossomed out of her to the degree that it did. that was the embryo for the stuff we see now. >> no question about it. >> there's this direct line from pay lin and the monster truck

rallies that she had. kari lake. >> wow. that is such a fascinating conversation. >> first of all, mark, you know, with a little bit of perspective and seeing from 2008 moving forward, first of all, let's be really blunt here, it wasn't sarah palin's fault that she was thrown into trying to figure out geopolitical -- i mean, she was a one term governor from alaska. now, of course she should have said no. but what one term governor from alaska is going to say no to that. i'm shocked that she was put in a position where you went in there and others who tried to prep her had to try to get her standing on stage with somebody who had been in the senate since 1974. it was just the height of recklessness to select her, first of all, but secondly, i

will say people responded to sarah palin on a gut level. i saw it in pensacola. it was a precursor to donald trump. and in 2010, anybody she endorsed seemed to win. >> yeah, joe, it's -- it was clearly an impetuous decision, and think how different things could have been because, remember, john mccain was thinking about picking joe lieberman a democrat to be a dream unity ticket, and lindsey graham leaked it, and then everybody freaked out, and that forced him into kind of a corner where they did the throw deep hail mary to sarah palin, and off we went into the rabbit hole. there was newt gingrich, but i think it was a pivotal point that could have gone either way, and it led to -- and i think tim made a great point that she was reacting to the anger out there among the electorate which has grown and grown, and that trump

tapped into it, and others are tapping into, and now we're getting candidates like kari lake, which is a real echo of sarah palin. >> let me say something else, too, and i guess i'm not going to be careful when i say this, she's also reacting to the fact, mika and i went to an event in was it minneapolis the night after she gave her speech, we were absolutely shocked about the rumors and the garbage that people from some of the most established media organizations were spreading around about sarah palin and her family. it's something that nicolle wallace was having to fight every second. she would have to call these people back and say, are you kidding me, you're really going to run -- so whatever fault sarah palin has in this, we want to know about, like, why do people on the right distrust the media. let me tell you something, mika, who of course has never voted for a republican i think in her

life was horrified by the garbage that some of the most respected figures in media were spewing out, talking about stories they were going to run on sarah palin, all because they were freaking out by the fact that this one-term governor from alaska had actually hit all of her marks in the convention speech. i have to say, it was really shocking to both of us. what i'm talking about is, yes, we need to look at sarah palin. we need to look at the toxicity that followed. we need to look at the toxicity that led to trump. we also need to look at ourselves and say, what was our part in all of this, in creating this massive distrust. i mean "saturday night live" lampooned reporters in their coverage of sarah palin. >> a little self-reflection is certainly warranted here across

the board for everybody, but, you know, that was a dark chapter and unfortunately, john mccain used to say, it gets darkest just before it goes completely black. but i remain a prisoner of hope, and i'm going to keep pushing this big rock up the steep hill. >> same here. joining us now, contributing writer at new york magazine, robert draper. his new book is entitled "weapons of mass delusion, when the republican party lost its mind," it's officially out tomorrow, and in it robert argues a new breed of republicans are intentionally weaponizing the politics of hysteria for personal advancement, sometimes resulting in violence. >> robert, thank you so much for being with us. and it's important we talk about the devolution, 2008, sarah palin saying i won the race, the race is rigged. 2016, trump, you talk to clinton

people, and they will tell you, they thought they were going to win, but they actually thought their first couple of weeks would be batting back some of these lies. they thought donald trump was going to spew about the race being stolen from them. he won the race and he still was spewing lies about the race. we devolve to 2020, and here we are in 2022, where you have one republican after another saying if i don't win, i'm not going to recognize the results. democracy in the balance. >> right. yeah, joe, i mean, it's interesting to hear my old friend mckinnon quoting john mccain saying it's always darkest before it goes completely black. now is the black moment. now is the point where after january 6th we can reasonably figure that okay, the republican party has descended into madness, lost its mind and will now descend into meditation and figure out a way to dig itself back out of the hole, and regain the trust of the american people. that hasn't happened, as you've

indicated and in fact, among the people who we assumed would be sort of consigned to the star wars bar of the republican party, like marjorie taylor greene, have become not so much marginal characters but, in fact, central characters, and you were talking about georgia a few minutes ago today in atlanta. kevin mccarthy, the house minority leader who wants to be speaker of the house is at a fundraiser, who's with him, marjorie taylor greene. people like her who you thought would be a fringe character are in fact central now to the republican party, and they continue to spew these claims that the 2020 election was stolen and that democrats, in fact, habitually cheated and whenever they do win, it's because of cheating. >> robert, isn't the fact that we've seen the evolving of this whole performative kind of politics from sarah palin to what we have now kari lake and the like, donald trump choosing herschel walker, isn't it also that the democrats have not on

the other side been able to connect with their base in a way that would energize and offset a lot of what has clearly tapped into some something ugly, but something that is moving a lot of people to vote for the republicans because they're hitting them where they live, and the democrats have not hit the mark of where a lot of people live toll bring out their base. we're not seeing, at least it's not in the polls, women coming out in the numbers that we would have expected in a lot of these situations after the dobbs decision, and blacks and others are feeling not as energized as palins and lakes rallying their troops. >> the democratic base isn't as energized since they are the party in power, and it's a midterm election, so historically that dynamic tends to favor the base of the party

that's out of power. it's true that the democrats have been less effective at appealing to the base, and i think that's because the republican party has very much played on fears in a way that has become almost apocalyptic. every election is not just the election of our lifetime but the fate of the country and the fate of civilization hangs in the balance, and you see in quasi apocalyptic rhetoric creep up and really become central to, for example, kari lake in arizona and marjorie taylor greene, by the way, has been endorsed her, and is campaigning her. i mean, lake has described this as a battle of good versus evil. it's not just right versus wrong, moral versus immoral, correct very incorrect but casting things in an almost biblical sort of way that essentially warrants their electorate, if you don't come out and vote for us, then civilization as we know will come to a halt. >> so mark, let's talk about

evolution. you just mentioned sarah palin, and many have drawn a through line from palin to trump. not to say that trump is not still with us, he is, and looms large over 2024 and beyond, but there are some democrats who see two republicans in particular as the heir apparents, kari lake, the former tv newscaster, obama supporter, less threatening than trump. the other is ron desantis who has been able to use the power of government in an effective way to push through his political agenda, perhaps nor effectively than trump. give us your assessment of lake and desantis and writ large is that the where the republican party is going. >> no question that's where it's going. lake and desantis have perfected the punch back on anything establishment we are all the enemy of the

people. robert also has a piece in the "new york times" about marjorie taylor greene, and i think it's an interesting question for robert to say what does her ascendancy mean, what kind of power will she wield in a new congress. >> thanks for the question. i mean, when i undertook to begin reporting on my book, it was december of 2020. greene had just won but i figured that she would be kicked to the curve and viewed as a marginal figure. she knew something about the republican base that establishment republicans did not, and has been able to, in the first reporting quarter raise a staggering amount of money. is currently now the fourth highest fundraiser among house republicans. two of them are house leaders. scalise and mcccarthy, he's not

just humoring her. it's clear, in fact, she has been a leader without particular portfolio in the party. this is the republican party that is essentially on the ballot for 2022. and it's a party that as greene has said to me, intends to get certain things done, and this is not all performative politics. this is a slate that is anti-immigration, abortion, anticlimate control, these are individuals that believe in something, and they are the power figures of the gop. >> mark, help me understand this better, because it's just so fascinating because i can't quite figure out how republicans are duped so easily. let's talk about the two people that right now a lot of people are fascinated by and talking about, and democrats are so

concerned about. donald trump. democrat for most of his life. gave millions of dollars to democrat, and, no, it wasn't like back in the 1990s. he contributed to kamala harris's campaign in 2014. right? >> yep. >> and then you have kari lake, a barack who sang obama supporter, right, so she was swept up with hope and change, just like donald trump was a supporter of kamala harris and hillary clinton, and best friends it seemed at times with bill clinton. he loved democrats. he attacked ronald reagan. he attacked one republican after another. how can it be that republicans embrace these people who were so hostile to the republican party, the conservatism.

to everything that they supposedly care so much about now. >> joe, that's what is so depressing for those of us on survivor island. the party has abandoned completely any sense of ideology or coherent policy that has any kind of framework. there's certainly no compassion fat conservatism, which first drew me across the bridge, and it's simply become transactional, about and only retaining power. that's all it's about, and we have seen it left and right as the devil's disciples have enabled trump and others, without any kind of principle, with few exceptions of people like liz cheney, and that's what has really been depressing to me is that there's so few people willing to stand up for any principle anymore in the republican party. >> yeah, and rev, let's talk about also the democrats, and i find it fascinating that the

democrats are so concerned about kari lake. she's a threat to american democracy. and her opponent says that kari lake is a threat to american democracy. but her opponent won't debate her. her opponent doesn't show up in a lot of places in arizona. kari lake is everywhere in arizona. kari lake went on cnn. knew she was going to take tough questions, kind of like trump. we would pounce trump, he would come on the show the next day. you know this. like showing up is so important. and i just wonder if, i mean, tim ryan is not this way, but it seems like a lot of democrats are afraid of their own shadow, and that certainly seems to be the case in arizona, and if you're afraid to debate your opponent, voters are going to be afraid to vote for you, especially if you want to be governor. >> you're absolutely right. i think that's what i was

alluding to with my question to robert. voters feel when you don't show up not only that you won't represent them but that you may not believe in what you're saying. when you look at the fact that we can say as matter of factually that the republicans may take the house because of how the lines have been redrawn, and they don't need to win one district that biden won, they can just go on the one that is trump won, and that does not give the argument that because the lines are drawn and we're not voting and running in these state legislatures, we're losing our democracy, they have all of the issues they can galvanize with. they're just not doing it. and the republicans are doing the opposite. they are galvanizing their base, saying that, you know, we're facing armageddon, and the democrats, i mean, between dobbs, between redistricting, between gerrymandering, between what's going on with crime, the issues are there. it's almost like having the perfect sermon

hymn by the choir, and the preacher didn't show up. >> all right. contributing writer at "new york times" magazine, robert draper, thank you very much for being on this morning. we'll see you again later in the week. for more on the new book entitled "weapons of mass delusion, when the republican party lost its mind," mark mckinnon, thank you as well. we appreciate it. still ahead on "morning joe," a series of nbc news exclusives, first, georgia republican senate candidate herschel walker explains to kristen welker where he got the badge he flashed at friday's debate. and cnbc's andrew ross sorkin speaks with the ceo of pfizer. they talk about booster shots, including why he is delaying getting his. also ahead, president xi jinping warns of quote stormy seas ahead in a speech in front of the chinese communist party. congressman seth moulton and

mike waltz who both just returned from a trip to taiwan join us with why they think time is running out for the u.s. to prepare itself and allies for a possible war with china. and up next, over 150 years ago, america faced a test of the capacity of self-government to stand against the forces of autocracy. jon meacham joins us on how the struggle we are engaged in now is simply a sequel to the challenges abraham lincoln faced over a century and a half ago. and how his success is no guarantee that we will succeed again. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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exception of abraham lincoln, possible exception, but the exception of abraham lincoln, nobody has done what i've done. >> abraham lincoln is one of the most racist presidents we've had in modern history. >> that was joe biden calling out donald trump for comparing himself to abraham lincoln at a presidential debate in nashville two years ago. remember that? >> well, you know, mike barnicle knew abraham lincoln. abraham lincoln was a friend of mike's, and donald trump is no abraham lincoln. let's bring in presidential historian, jon meacham, "and there was light," officially publishes tomorrow. let me ask you the big question. you and i talked a good bit. we both had spent a lot of time studying abraham lincoln. he was at best vexing at times, but i think what i walked away from after spending a couple of

years with him was that from the first day he was in the illinois legislature in 1834 to april 15th, 1865, he did not walk in a straight line. he was tacking into the wind, to the side, but it was always with one goal in mind, and that was pushing back, and ultimately doing what wilbur force had done in england, and that is abolish slavery. >> he was persistently anti-slavery, not abolitionist, not perfect, not a racial egalitarian, but a remarkably consistent factor in his life was that as he put it, i may not walk quickly, but i don't walk backwards. and i like to think that that's a pretty good motto for the country. may not be the perfect one, but we may not move quickly, but by god, let's not move backwards,

and i think that what lincoln did at an existential hour for the democratic experience, the idea, the reality of the declaration of independence, is he had a moral commitment to the principles of the declaration of independence, and he would not be knocked from it. and what we learn from that in our own time, seems to me, is that if you send someone to the pinnacle of power who has no moral compass, who is devoted to nothing other than their own power and their own perpetuation in office, then that's fatal to what we're trying to do in the united states of america. >> it really is. >> one other thing i found fascinating about lincoln, you'll see quotes that are jarring, for instance, when he wrote a letter back to the then editor of the "new york herald", and it was an argument that is stunning if you read it on paper, where he says, listen, my

job is to save the union. if slaves are freed when i save the union, fantastic, if they're not, that's all right. my goal is to save the union. and you read that, and it's shocking but i always found it fascinating that every time lincoln would say something that would be really jarring, he was playing to the jury. when those harsh words came out where he claimed to be ambivalent about slavery and he was playing that way to the rest of america, those closest to him said, oh, my god, he's going to emancipate the slaves. explain that. >> when he said those infamous words in the summer of 1862, he had already drafted an emancipation proclamation. he was waiting for the right moment militarily, and more politically to announce it, and

he was preparing, racist opinion, white racist opinion, which was not confined to the american south for this extraordinary measure of emancipation. this is not to celebrate abraham lincoln, mindlessly. right? we need to be very careful about this. but nor should we condemn him reflectively. the utility, i believe, the moral utility of history, and particularly of lincoln in our own time, is not to look up at him adoringly or down on him condescendingly, but to look him in the eye, and the remarkable think about the lincoln memorial is you can look him in the eye. there he is in the great grandeur, and he's looking down at us. you see this human figure who was wrestling with political reality but always this moral conviction that the declaration of independence was more than words. he said, my ancient faith teach

me that all men are created equal. and he was going to do everything he could to try to bring that closer to reality. that required saying things that are reprehensible. it required doing things that were reprehensible. but he was trying to save a constitutional experiment, and in that, he was working in a way that frederick douglass had helped identify. the title of the book comes from douglass said, i do not despair of this country, the fiat of the almighty, let there be light, has not yet spent its force, and it fell to lincoln in that hour to try to shed that light. and that light was we cannot enslave others, and we must, in fact, live up to the promise that the nation itself articulated.

>> jon, you quote douglass, and one of the great books on douglass david blithe outlines how douglass would try and push lincoln when lincoln was slow in moving, and i agree with you, he's not someone who could be praised as the great emancipator, but he got there. he got there because of his commitment to save the union, and he grew. i think that part of the -- what we've learned about lincoln is that he would not -- he was not afraid to grow. he was not afraid to evolve, and he was not afraid to do whatever what he felt would be unpopular at the end to save the union, and i think that the abolitionist was pushing him on one side, and others were threatening him on the other. but he became -- he stumbled into greatness because of his basic core believes. >> well, i always hesitate to in

any way disagree with a man of the cloth, reverend. but i would just offer this as a parallel set of facts. there were three moments in lincoln's late presidential life where he stayed true to his conviction when almost anybody else, including realtime actors, might have done something else. so he's elected president in the fall of 1860. this is kind of, i think of it as his churchill moment. there's a compromise put on the table by a senator from kentucky to preserve slavery, extend it to some of the territories and avoid war. immensely popular plan. people around lincoln wanted him to take it. lincoln said no. that if slavery were allowed to move into the territories, that it would take root for decade

upon decade upon decade. he wasn't going to do it. it's an immensely dramatic moment in an hour of decision. then, he comes into office, the first thing he deals with when he walks into the office on the second floor of the white house is that sumpter is under siege, and there are william seward, were not enthusiastic about fortifying fort sumpter. and lincoln said, no, this is the point beyond which we will not concede and so the war came, as lincoln said. and then in 1864, when he's running for reelection, he thinks he's going to lose, he refuses, he's told by the republican national committee chairman that if he keeps emancipation as a precondition for peace that he will lose. and that he needs to abandon this. and in the middle of august of 1864, he's sitting in the white house, lincoln said, no, because as he put it, men act on

incentive. how could he ask the black men under arms who were defending the constitution of the united states to fight for anything other than their freedom. and then atlanta falls, and lincoln wins. but he didn't know that. and so what i loved about doing this was going back into these moments of decision where he actually stayed true to a conviction, made a decision, and on that decision the fate of democracy not just at home, but abroad, depended. >> yeah, you know, it is -- there are those moments. there's that moment. there's a moment in his first year in the legislature where he was only one of seven legislators to vote for abolition of slavery in washington, d.c. so there are those moments you can find, but again, for those

looking at lincoln, trying to figure out exactly how lincoln was moving the direction he was moving, it was usually frustrating. the best insight into lincoln i've ever read and it is a remarkable insight came from -- i'm sure it will be you after reading all of this book, but came from frederick douglass, the first time a statue had been unveiled for lincoln, and there were generals around and everybody was around to hear frederick douglass say wonderful things about abraham lincoln. he did not at the beginning, but he got there. i just want to read these famous lines that say so much. viewed from the genuine abolition ground, mr. lincoln seemed tardy, cold, dull, and indifferent. but measuring him by the sentiment of his country, a sentiment he was bound as a

statesman to consult, he was swift, zealous, radical, and determined. two truths that we hold at the same time. >> you know, that's the most profound -- that's an 1876 speech delivered at the friedman's monument on capitol hill. i assign it to classes. it's the most profound statement, i think, about biography and the ambiguity of life in a democracy, about human nature. douglass started at cooper union in 1865 at the wake of the assassination, he said that lincoln had been preeminently the black man's president, and then by 1876, because of the horrors of the descends shadows of segregation and the failures of reconstruction, he said that he was preeminently the white man's president. but, and then the section that you're talking about.

history is not a fairy tale. there are -- there can be light. there can be dark. but the human agents and lincoln understood this in the marrow of his bones, the human agents are imperfect. and so if you're looking for a perfect embodiment of light, you should look to the church. look to the world of philosophy, look to the world of fiction, look to the world of legend, but we live in a political world. we sit in a moment now where our divisions are as deep as they have been since the 1850s. we have competing visions of america that are not just about the mediation of differences. we're not arguing about marginal tax rates here. we're arguing about the very understanding of power and democracy and will politics be a mediation of differences or will it be total war? and what lincoln insisted was

that if democracy is to survive, we have to have a moral commitment to something larger than our own perpetuation in power. and for him, it was to the declaration of independence, and sometimes he moved quickly as the rev said, and sometimes he moved slowly, but he always moved. and if he could do it, and he was imperfect, god knows we're imperfect, and so can't we do the same? >> jon meacham, this is really good. thank you very very much. and jon will be back with us throughout the week for more on his new book entitled "and there was light, abraham lincoln and the american and the american struggle." john fetterman leans into the questions about his health following the stroke he suffered back in may, even turning it into an opportunity to remind voters of his opponent's own campaign stumbles.

his new post ahead on "morning joe." we're back in two minutes.

our internet isn't ideal. my dad made the brillant move to get us t-mobile home internet. -which... we have to share our signal with the entire neighborhood. yeah, now we do some weird things to get our speeds. well... i'm up. -c'mon kids. this sucks. well if you just switch maybe you don't have to be vampires. whoa... -okay, yikes. oh sorry, i wasn't thinking. we, uh, don't really use the v word. that's kind of insensitive. we prefer pro-lunar. yes, much better.

♪♪ you are looking at live pictures and if you're here in london the songs of sex pistols it means nbc sports co-host of "men in blazers." >> that is a lot of cow. >> sheep i this. author of new book "gods of somer." you know, i respect this bromance that pep and clapp have. so when a friend of mine set an article with pep saying we have to worry about liverpool, come on. come on.

nobody believes that. yet what a game this past weekend. pep said the team needed to be tougher against liverpool. lost to them again. >> thank god we have a competition this season. we have 35 days away from world cup 2022. but the premier league keeps going on. as you say epic. boston red sox liverpool hosting in abu dhabi manchester city. liverpool having a season worst than the british pound. they looked old and vulnerable. began the week in an uncharacteristic 11th place. nordic terminator causing chaos. phil, the r2-d2 smashing home for a goal.

a reprieve which liverpool took advantage of. goalkeeper allison flung the ball that salah. 1-0, liverpool jrue mors of the demise exaggerates. look at this moment. so human. no joy. just exhaustion and sheer relief. a team that proved themselves to themselves. magnificent performance by liverpool. other massive games chelsea owned by todd burly facing a spryly aston villa. the second goal curved ball. and finally let's quickly look at league leading arsenal who traveled north.

another american went to the bear pit. the american defended worse than walker waving a police badge. at the penalty to tie the game. patrick full on trust. arsenal top of the table. nine wins out of ten. the manager, the team fantastic. like the dedication to stone washed american jeans. >> come on. >> is that now in the lexicon, liz trust? full on liz trust? >> technical term and godspeed in every regard. 16 to reach 27 points after 10 games. it is happening.

stan -- not entirely sure he knows he owns arsenal. this team doing the impossible and magnificent. >> okay. >> yeah. i'll say over five to ten years, telling me to end this segment, most arsenal fans suggest he did not know that arsenal existed but this year despite that what a season. >> let's bring this segment to an end. it is a joy to be with you, america. >> a lot of sheep there. thank you. the new book out now is entitled "gods of soccer." china's president opens a meeting of the communist party with a warning to taiwan. two congressmen that returned from the region say the u.s. needs to be preparing for war.

plus going to ohio where the state's democratic candidate for senate tim ryan talking about the key health care issues that voters are facing. his conversation is straight ahead. as early voting begins in georgia, an exclusive interview with the senate candidate herschel walker. "morning joe" returns in two minutes.

con ald was desperate to hang on to power but real heroes were the ones running this country. >> mr. vice president, mr. vice president, speaker pelosi again. >> tell him i'm here, too. >> where is president trump? what is he doing? >> hi, mike. it's chuck schumer. >> any final thoughts? >> the fact is trump planned to declare victorino matter the results. lock at the video the day before the election. >> the votes don't matter. i've always said that. what is a vote? it's just a piece of paper you put it in a hat. a guy shakes it around. >> oh my god. welcome back to "morning joe." >> pretty good. >> pretty real. welcome back to "morning joe." it is monday, october 17th.

so early voting kicks off in georgia today. the heated senate race between herschel walker and rafael warnock kicked up over the weekend with walker attending a debate and did speak with nbc news chief news correspondent kristen welker. good morning. >> good morning. we did sit down with walker for his first -- after his first and only debate with warnock. we discussed the economy and former presidents trump and and obama. and asked him about the candidate paid for a former girlfriend to have an abortion in 2009 which he is again denying. in a one on one interview in georgia herschel walker with

comments about allegations he paid for an ex-girlfriend to have an abortion in 2009. >> why not reach out to her? >> why? >> reporter: nbc news spoken to that former girlfriend who provided us with a copy of a $700 check to pay for the abortion. and a receipt for the abortion. we are not revealing the woman or the documents but we did show a copy of the check to walker saying the allegation he paid for an abortion isn't true. >> this is a lie because she is the mother of my child. you can see my check of somebody giving a check. it is a lie. >> do you know what this $700 check is for? >> i have no idea. >> is that your signature. >> it doesn't matter. >> reporter: when pressed he

said the check is his. >> it's my check. >> why should voters believe you? >> i have been transparent. >> reporter: he faced allegations of domestic violence including his ex-wife and 23-year-old son. >> he said you threatened to kill us and had us move over six times in six months. just for the voters to the allegation of violence. what should people know? >> i love my son and my family. i will always love them. i don't have in i violence. >> reporter: walker faced criticism for embellishing record. >> i never pretended to be a

police officer and i have never threatened a shootout with the police. >> reporter: walker then brandished what appeared to be a badge. >> you know what's so funny? >> i am with many police officers and at the same time -- >> reporter: we asked him to explain that moment. where is this one from? >> my hometown from the sheriff of johnson county. >> reporter: the sheriff gave him an honorary badge. georgia is key to determining which party controls the senate. while walking on the wrightsville field that bears his name walker revealed former president trump called him after the debate. did he give you an indication that he will be here in georgia for you campaigning? >> if i needed him he would

come. >> now there was another debate as you mentioned in atlanta last night which walker did not attend. we did ask senator warnock for an interview. his campaign sent us this statement overnight. it says, quote, this campaign will be who is ready to represent georgia and that is not herschel walker. >> all right. nbc's kristen welker, thank you so much as always. let's bring in right now "the new york times" columnist charles blow and writer to "the atlantic" pete waner with pieces on walker and the senate race and the fact that they they have pieces out about walker right now tells you where the politics have gob. >> how significant this race is. >> of course. also, they both make great points. why they're here.

i have to say, charles, herschel walker said in that interview he was very transparent. he lied about being valedictorian and graduating from university of georgia, about being in law enforcement, about being in the fbi, about his children, about not knowing who this woman was. he has lied repeatedly. independents, democrats, republicans know he lied repeatedly. yet the race is deadlocked. >> number one, this is the modern republican party. the trump era where all you have to do is deny. it doesn't matter what the truth may be and whether or not you get caught in the lie as long as

your m.o. is not to admit. there's a fatigue. there was this thing. he denied it. i have accepted or not accepted it and moving on. there's always a next thing. fatigue because of the monotony and this is a modern part of particularly republican politics and walker is following that road map and working for him. republicans in this state of georgia decided to vote for the power of the seat over the person. it is important for the republicans in this state that they retake the seat and hopefully retake the senate but also that forever and ever for decades and decades white people

in this state were aim to call the shots. whoever the most white people voted for that was the person elected and period of republicans and democrats but in 2020 blew all that out of the water. that coalition led by minorities and black people and that shocked georgia and it forced them to try to tamp down voting and they now need to demonstrate to themselves that they have the power to choose. >> pete, your latest is entitled the perfect candidate for a fallen party. you write this. there have been plenty of aufrl candidates in american history. he's a wreck in so many

different ways. walker displayed not just a lack of interest in serious ideas but contempt for them why the party is a wasteland. the gop turned on the principles it once stood for. it is a freak show. politics for them is about power and the pursuit of more poour. politics is performtive, a way to stoke anger. a means to exact revenge. whatever you think about the gop pretrump and may be that the ugliness is closer to the surface the republican party is today much more conspiracy minded and anti-democratic and

anti-truth. today because of its diseased state the task is to defeat it to eventually rebuilding it and i wonder can it be rebuilt? >> i don't think so. i don't think this trump republican party can be rebuilt and the candidacy of walker provides us with such a clarifying moment because now the corruption of the republican party is complete. now the corruption of christian nationalism which so clearly chooses power over principle is complete. walker provides such a clarifying moment in showing just how hypocritical people voting for and supporting walker have been towards politics their

entire adult life starting with being shocked and stunned at bill clinton's immorality now brushing aside that walker abandoned four of his children. >> i agree. i don't think that this int ration can be rebuilt. i think it has to be defeated. we tested the proposition of a moral argument to move the republican party back to truth and sanity. it won't do it as long as they think that's a road to power. i think it has to be defeated. we have in a cycle where the situation is worse. ben sasse is leaving. liz cheney defeated and more of a maga party.

walker is in the sense an avatar for the party. it's a catastrophe. and donald trump of course is the framer of freak show candidates and individuals because he embodies elements of the worse of walker and worse and the dominant figure. this is worse since trump was defeated. there was a hope that when trump was defeated that the party would take an exit ramp and become a normal party again but that's not happened why the republican party for half dozen years indulged this stuff. supported it. looked away from it.

that together deformed the party and the base of the party in a way that it wasn't going to change even if trump lost the election. it is a grave situation and people need to rally and take back this country. >> it was striking in the report that donald trump called the congratulate walker after that debate and he did say one thing that the idea that joe biden won in 2020. usually when a republican candidate does that they hear from trump and receive wrath. you believe that walker's in this position as the republican nominee for the senate in georgia because he is a football star, sure, but also because he is a black man.

tell us more as to why how deeply cynical that is and how you read georgia, a state you know really well. what does it say about georgia right now that stacey abrams seems for the polls likely to lose. while the senate race is a toss-up. >> i think the instult is that we'll put a black, any black, against warnock and a celebrity black because of the football background and the heisman trophy winning that herschel walker had achieved. where the insult comes in is he would have never been a heisman trophy winner if it had not been for civil rights workers, black and white, that fought to make the possible for walker to play

football at that college. that's the insult and used it in this way. what i would ask charles and i do know georgia well. i have national action network with an office there in atlanta. what's interesting is i almost hope that donald trump does come because i think it will energize the voters that they try to make sure comes out and votes so if trump is watching i dare you. i want you to come because that helps with black turnout. but i think that part of the reason that trump may not come is because kemp would not kowtow to trump and trump has to deal with on one hand herschel saying that biden won and kemp would

not kowtow to him about the 2020 results. what do you think would be the fallout if donald trump did come because he is probably tempted since president obama's coming? >> my sense on the ground here is that there is a lot of enthusiasm to vote against herschel walker. that does not exist in the governor's race and kind of hurting abrams a little. the small pocket of people particularly black male activists with a bone to pick with a brahms about issues that seem small with marijuana legalization and i think she moved in that direction and also just around narrative of black men and razor tight here in georgia and takes to eat into

the numbers and there is a little bit of eating into the numbers. you can have some split ticketing on the ticket between the governor and senate race and may be black people doing that withholding a vote or voting for kemp. if you got a donald trump to come into georgia in that race kemp doesn't need the help. and -- but walker absolutely does need it. i think what walker needs is to keep turning the lens away from his actual monumental faults and back toward placating republicans into believing that they can do this unthinkable thing they would not have done ten years ago but they will do

now for walker to vote for a person who they know is not qualified to hold the job and violates every principle they said they stood for. >> joe has little hope for the republican party but if it could be rehabilitated what would that look like? >> i think a candidate who believes in law and democracy and traditional conservative principles to rise up and who would win races. and be a serious voice. those people exist but are attacked and driven out. liz cheney is more principled than trump or walker coming to

traditional conservative policies. she did one thing which was an unforgivable sin which is to stand up for truth and she spoke out against donald trump in an effort to overturn an election and the role to catalyze a violent assault on the capitol. look. the temperament and attitude and orientation of the party has to change and there are people to rise up. the problem is that hasn't changed and when people responsible speak out they are pushed aside. >> pete and charles, thank you both very much this morning. still ahead on "morning joe" andrew ross sorkin sits down with the ceo of pfizer. he caught covid twice in less than two months. what he is saying about the new

variant specific boost every. plus kanye west buying a social media company. plus "morning joe's" chief medical correspondent speaks with ohio's nominee for senate and some of the biggest medical issues facing the state. the film almost famous told the fictionalized story as a teenage writer for "rolling stone." crow joins us live on "morning joe" as the story heads to broadway. you are watching "morning joe." . ♪things are getting clearer♪ ♪i feel free to bare my skin♪

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shows a dead heat to fill a seat in ohio between democratic congressman tim ryan and j.d. vance. dr. dave campbell caught up with congressman ryan to discuss the health care issues hitting home with ohioians on the campaign trail. ♪♪ >> amidst democratic congressman tim ryan's ryan jens vance for ohio's u.s. senate seat i spent a day on the campaign. >> a guy came up to me and probably 70 years old and says i am worried about the future of the country. we need to stop the stupid fights. everybody lay down the arms.

everybody wants it to be over. >> the exhausted majority tired of the games and the hate and the anger. right? we want to be americans. right? >> one issue close to his heart is affecting many americans. the u.s. drug epidemic. there's not only the need to prevent the inflow but for mental health legislation. >> this rainbow fentanyl now to hear so much about. you try one now and could end your life and not fair. but those are the conversations we've had with the kids and i think parents are having now. needs a whole of government approach. be tough on china.

but there's also the mental health and the trauma and organizing the schools around trauma and we learned a lot from the research on the future impact and how do we have a smart, nimble government to take the research and injects it into the way we organize the education system? can't ignore food. the connection between diet and mental health and gut bacteria. >> what about the mental health act passed through the house this summer? how can that achieve the goals? >> a biggest thing is identifying it and then resources and you can have the ideas but if you don't have the resources it is not going to work. we spend all this money on the

back end. disease care system. we don't focus on prevention. that's why it's so expensive in the united states. >> with the average health care spending per person in the u.s. $4,000 more than any other high income nation the congressman weighed in on access. >> we are making improvements with medicare and prescription drug costs. important steps. but i don't think we're going to have a comprehensive approach until the culture shifts. if there's no cooperation and compromise then you are not going to get a policy to last but a whiplash of the democrats in and do their thing and then republicans are in. back the other way. how many decades now we have

been doing this? the culture has to shift of a game plan for the country, a game plan based on science and research and experience. >> does it seem like we're moving in a direction? >> we isolate the extremists and say no or at least two, four, six years of them being in power and potentially in control of congress. >> got j.d. vance on the run. he is too extreme for ohio. >> what is the difference. >> i'm an ohio guy. never left. never gave up on ohio. he has.

he went to california. will never have a good job again and goes against every fiber of my being. do you want someone in the senate to cut and run or stand up and fight? >> "morning joe" chief medical correspondent dave campbell with that report. for more on the ohio race visit joe.msnbc.com. still ahead, a next guest is asking the question are january 6 investigators hot on the trail of all the president's people? former attorney general litman joins us next. "morning joe" is coming right back. what about screening for colon cancer? when caught in early stages it's more treatable. i'm cologuard. i'm noninvasive and i detect altered dna in your stool

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90%! hey mark, did you know california is sending us all their money? suckers. -those idiots! [ laughter ] imagine that, a whole state made up of suckers. vote no on 27. it's a terrible deal for california. we win. you lose. naomi: every year, the wildfires and smoke seem to get worse. jessica: there is actual particles on every single surface. cooke: california has the worst air pollution in the country. the top two causes are vehicles and wildfires. prop 30 helps clean our air. it will reduce the tailpipe emissions that poison our air. kevin: and helps prevent the wildfires that create toxic smoke. that's why calfire firefighters, the american lung association, and the coalition for clean air support prop 30. naomi: i'm voting yes on 30. this morning air raid sirens are ringing out in kyiv after another round of russian attacks

against the ukraine capital. for the second straight week emergency crews on the ground responding to the damage reportedly caused by kamikaze drones. the stockpile is being replebished by iran preparing to send more weapons to vladimir putin's army. joining us is cal perry. what are you seeing there this morning? >> reporter: good morning. so a chaotic morning here in the ukraine capital. 6:45 in the morning with the first series of explosions then a second wave. it was 28 drones according to the mayor fired at kyiv this morning. five striking the building you see now. a very difficult scene to watch.

we were just there. these photos, there are people we believe trapped in the building. at least three dead at the scene. more than a dozen people rescued. the drones are doing clearly significant damage. the government warned that the russians to move to the drones and you could hear it and call them mopeds. they sound like mopeds. they fly slow and trying to overwhelm the air defenses. the other thing is machine gun fire from the ground. trying to knock the drones out of the sky. the problem is if you knock them out they start large fires on the ground. the last thing, the neighborhood is struck on four separate occasions and clear to us the target of the russians. but they miss and hit

residential areas. now you have more casualties on the ground. >> cal perry, thank you. china issued a new warning against foreign interference with taiwan. we'll talk to lawmakers that just returned from the region. seth moulton and mike waltz joins us on "morning joe." we're back in a moment. this is art inspired by real stories of bipolar depression. i just couldn't find my way out of it. the lows of bipolar depression can take you to a dark place. latuda could make a real difference in your symptoms. latuda was proven to significantly reduce bipolar depression symptoms. and in clinical studies, had no substantial impact on weight. this is where i want to be. call your doctor about sudden behavior changes or suicidal thoughts. antidepressants can increase these in children and young adults. elderly dementia patients have increased

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we turn to iran where a massive fire broke out this weekend at the country's prison. it is a building that holds hundreds of dissidents. iranian state news report says at least eight prisoners died in

the fire. video captureses the moments that large plumes of smoke rise from the facility in the capital city of tehran. prisoners intentionally set fire to a workshop and warehouse full of clothes. leading to additional explosions following protests within the country. following the delt one month ago of mahsa amini. in the hospital three days after being arrested by the morality police. joining us with more is tehran bureau chief ali aruzi. a li? >> reporter: the fire was extraordinary and sent panic in tehran on the evening that it broke out. the fire was so big the inferno

could be seen throughout north of tehran. as you said the prison in the north of tehran. behind it are mountains and in front is a neighborhood. so a lot of residents whose apartments overlook the prison were in realtime explaining what they were seeing and hearing. at about 7:30 local time news broke that there was a fire and immediately seeing images you could hear the constant sound of gun fire ringing for four or five hours and explosions. they said the exploegszs caused by prisoners in a mine field and the stories kept coming out were different. it is not clear the source of the fire. initially they said nobody died

and then four and today eight people died and also conflicting reports of a prison guard that may have died and other state agencies said he may have died in the protest on the street. it is confusing what is going on and all happening amidst the protests and it is difficult to contain the masses. there was a massive traffic jam that night. cars swarmed the area. people tried to get to the loved ones there and the roadblocked and people honking the horning in anger. every day is a new drama to iran. outside of iran yesterday there is a competitor, a woman who represents iran in the asian climbing competitions in the

finals in seoul yesterday and refused to wear the head scarf in the finals. no athlete, no female athlete representing iran in the last 43 years dared to pull a stunt like that. that will be a huge inspiration to many people on the street especially women risking the life and liberty to protest the mandatory headscarfing. every day something fundamental is happening. people outraged about the death of amini but this is a much bigger home grown movement led by women, schoolgirls, mothers, fathers. a wide section of society regardless of socio economic background. you see conservative women

protesting the mandatory hijabs. so the protests created a seismic shift in society not seen here before. what that means for the future is uncertain. every day is more uncertainty and as the ruling establishment face a crisis they have not seen before. >> thank you very much. we'll go live to georgia ahead of the highly anticipated gubernatorial debate. "morning joe" is back in a moment.

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for me. you don't know what he says to me in private. maybe it is love. as much as it can be for -- >> who sold you for humble pie for 50 bucks and case of beer? i was there. i was there. oh, god. i'm sorry. >> what kind of beer? >> a scene from the classic 2000 film "almost famous," a system autobiography written and directed by cameron crowe that

follows a teenage journalist from "rolling stone" who embeds with an up and coming rock band in an effort to get his first cover story published. the film was now adapted into a musical and it's headed to broadway this november following a successful run of the west coast. and joining us now, academy award-winning writer, director, and producer cameron crowe. >> cameron, this is so exciting. one of my favorite movies ever. what i love so much about it is how personal it is and how actually the first draft really wasn't that personal, but as you went one draft to another to another -- >> yeah. >> -- your story moved to the forefront. what an extraordinary story. we now get to see it on broadway. tell us about it. >> thanks, joe. first of all, such a fan of the show. great to be here. you guys are big music fans. >> yeah. >> we are too. i never thought about doing a sequel or a follow-up to much of anything that i'd ever done, but

this is one story that people kept talking to me about. and music fans would just be the people that wanted to, like, talk more about the movie and the feeling that the movie gave them. so at a certain point, my friend came to me and said let me make broadway comfortable for you to tell the story in a theater where people could feel that same thing from the movie in a live setting. and it's been a thrill to do it. >> you know, you could have gone the easy route. you could have turned this into, like, a cheesy jukebox sort of musical that, you know, all the tourists will flood into and see. but your standards were set much higher. talk about that and talk about the need to stay true to the original movie. >> well, i wanted to have some of the main songs that people remember, "tiny dancer," elton john, and "the wind," cat stevens. we have ramble on from led

zeppelin in the show. but also with tom kit, the composer, we've been able to, like, craft songs that are in the spirit of those songs from 1973 so that you could play a little bit of a game with the show of, is that an obscure elton john song i never heard, or is that a led zeppelin song? no. wait. that's led zeppelin song. i like that it's a stew of new stuff, so we're looking forward as well as looking back. and it's a very cool thing that happens in the audience because we get some of our, you know, big-time theatergoers along with people that have never come to a broadway show before. and by the end of it, you know, they're all singing "fever dog" together, which is the craziest, most fun thing. >> so, joe, cameron crowe's life is about jump-starting his career. >> yeah. >> he skipped kindergarten. he skipped two grades in

elementary school. so he was kind of young, a little bit of an outcast graduating from high school. at 15 years old, you graduated from high school. amazing. he went professional for writing at 13 years old, writing for "san diego door," and then you became the youngest ever contributor to "rolling stone." in some ways that's a challenge to be so young but such a savant. >> i kind of owe it to my mom, by the way, the greatest joe and mika fan of all time. >> oh, wow. >> but she was such a -- you know, she passed away a couple days before our first performance before an auld yens with the play, but it was a dream we could tell in the theater. she was such a strict person. frances mcdormand played her truthfully in the movie and mika larson plays her even more so in the play. but that's my mom up there.

the fact she led me to black sabbath and led zeppelin at age 16 was a huge sacrifice for her as a protective parent. but she saw that i had the dream and i was going to go and follow that dream. >> wow. >> so she, you know, to bit her nails and wanted me to call her every night and tell her how i was doing. and the play and the movie both are all true. it's all true. these stories all happened. and she did get on the phone with a rock star or two and gave them her piece of mind. she's there every night on stage, i can tell you that. >> like hans solo. >> just like hans solo. >> all of it is true. so, john heilemann, who -- >> my buddy. >> -- a huge fan of yours keeps sending me texts, ask him about his relationship to his mom in the movie, frances, and also her

passing, how it -- and also wants you to confirm the rumor that heilman is playing felton one night on broadway. >> yes. >> yeah. you can answer any part of those. >> yes. well -- yes. my mom a huge influence. we've talked about that. let's talk about john heilemann right now. played david felton, editor of "rolling stone." i'd also tell you that i think jimmy fallon is going to drop in and play dennis hope, the manager of the future. and just get a little bit of journalism going on there with john so when he's on that stage, people will feel the intense authenticity of that fine gentleman. but it's such kind of a group vibe. the cast of the play stayed together through covid, and we've all kind of lived together for years to get the show going. so i love that kind of group

spirit. and then plugging some people in from time to time to come and jam with our band a little bit. >> that's so cool. >> that's amazing. >> one of things i wanted to say is you've always understood this basic thing about so much of the music from then and now. it just -- the thing that we all hold together is the power of songs. as glen frey, the great glen frey of the eagles, sung "song power." it is about the songs. you always celebrate the songs and the music on the show, and i think it's a great thing. >> you know, it's -- i will tell you at times, because we do what we do, at times i struggle with the fact -- musicians, great accomplished musicians talk about them sort of struggling with -- what do we do? what am i doing? how important is what i'm doing?

i've heard musicians talk about that. for me, it's just as a fan, i sit here, getting close to 06, and guy, this is kind of weird how much i've focused on the beatles, the "rolling stone," dylan, elvis costello throughout all the years, how important it's been to me. i think like you i've been surrounded by it so much. >> yeah. >> and i'm, like, is this just a weird pastime like playing with toy soldiers in the basement that i'm still doing all these years later? and then i heard fran liebowitz talking, and she was being interviewed and she talked about -- she said i can figure out a lot of things, but i can't figure out -- she was telling martin scorsese -- about writing songs. that's the greatest gift. >> yeah. >> it takes you back to a moment. it takes you back to a time.

and i