hi there, everyone. it's 4:00 in new york. we have new reporting on an explosive story that broke last week on the tensions building inside the biggest criminal investigation in u.s. history. we are of course talking about the fbi's probe into the january 6 insurrection and reporting by nbc news on an e-mail sent just one week after the deadly capitol attack in which a person wrote to be fbi's now number two official about sympathies that some agents have for the members of the mob who stormed the u.s. capitol. that e-mail reads in part quote there's no good way to say it so i'll just be direct. from my firsthand and secondhand information from conversations since january 6th, there is at

best a sizable percentage of the employee population that felt sympathetic to the group that stormed the capitol and said it was no different than the black lives matter of last summer. some lament that the only reason this activity is getting more attention is because of quote, political correctness. this e-mail went on to flag a number of incredibly alarming examples of comments being made in different fbi field offices including one official saying this. quote, over 70% of his counterterrorism squad and roughly 75% of agent population in his office disagreed with the violence, but could understand where the frustration was coming from which led to the protestors getting carried away. the fbi declined to comment on the e-mail when it became public last week then the fbi agents association told nbc news that it does not comment on ongoing investigations.

added this, quote, fbi agents understand the importance of separating their own personal views from their professional work. some new reporting that is exclusive to us at deadline white house, a former senior fbi official tells us today that there has been sporadic resistance in field offices to prosecuting january 6th cases within the fbi. resistance that does not amount to outright refusal, but rather complaining about the focus on january 6th when many of the cases being prosecuted are misdemeanors. this official tells us they keep repeating talking points and that the violence from the black lives matter protests is not being taken as seriously as the january 6th attack. a different former senior fbi official is today also expressing frustration with the current fbi director, christopher wray's silence and the investigation his agency is conducting. saying it comes from the desire

to quote, stay low and avoid criticism and controversy. they tell us this, it's an approach that leaves the country in the dark about both intelligence failures prior to january 6th and whether the agency is prepared for more political violence. a very real possibility given donald trump's role in cementing violence and his increasing jeopardy on multiple legal fronts. it's where we start today with some of our favorite friends. frank, an msnbc national security analyst. also, pete strzok and andrew weissman, former justice department prosecutor. also the general counsel for the fbi now an msnbc legal analyst. it's like sophie's choice, picking which one of you to go first, but i'll go in order. frank, you first. >> what's developing here is a crisis of credibility. and fear that the senior most leaders of the fbi and even at

other intel agencies as we continue to learn like every day, who knew what and when and that it was a lot more than we thought they knew at the time proceeding january 6th. i fear that those leaders are not grasping the gravity of this moment in terms of the future of their organizations. what i mean by this is it's time for complete transparency. it's time to come out and say we dropped this ball and here's why, but when we have chris w wray testifying on the hill they lack specific intelligence when we have just days after january 6th the head of the washington field office calling a press conference saying he lacks specific intelligence on that violence in the capitol, something's very wrong because we're just learning even in the last 24 hours about new material obtained from the january 6

committee from secret service that they knew. that the fbi was briefing the law enforcement community even regular briefings in the days proceeding january 6th and even every two hours the night before january 6th. so which is it? you lack specificity or you had the intelligence to do something and somehow it didn't happen. i think it's going way up the chain here even to involve political suppression of anybody who might have wanted to take further actions to secure the capitol. those are the questions that need to be answered and they need to be answered now, not waiting for the committee to release a 1,000 page report. >> do you agree, frank, with the assessment that wray is to blame for not creating a vacuum for creating a clear vision? >> i think if you watch his testimony and look, people know i've written a book called the fbi way. every time he testifies, i pay

close attention. i look for full, responsive answers and i don't see that happening. if the attorney general guidelines of conducting domestic terror investigations need to be changed, say it. but he hasn't said it. if they dropped the ball because somebody at the white house told them don't take action to enhance security at the capitol. don't pound your fists on the table for capitol police to do something. then say it. but we're not hearing it yet and it's eroding the credibility of the institution. that's why so many agents are saying this is painful. we can't take the beating every day and appear to be political, but yet they've become politicized. >> i want to show our work. the work of the fbi is important to every one of us and you are veterans at this agency. so let me show you the evidence that the january 6 committee developed and presented to the public about what the fbi knew prior to january 6th then i'll show what frank's talking about on the same topic.

>> the fbi, u.s. capitol police, metropolitan police, and other agencies all gathered and disseminated intelligence suggesting the possibility of violence at the capitol prior to the riot. in this report received on december 26th, the secret service field office relayed a tip it had received by the fbi. according to the source, the proud boys plan to march armed into d.c. on the evening of january 5th, the secret service learned that right wing groups were established armed quick reaction forces readying to deploy for january 6th. groups like the oath keepers were standing by at the ready should potus request assistance by invoking the insurrection act, agents were informed.

>> here's wray's testimony on june 23rd, 2021, where he's asked specifically about the intelligence about violence at the capitol. >> what we did not have to my knowledge at least is intelligence indicating that hundreds and hundreds of people were going to breach the capitol complex. that to my knowledge we did not have. >> so andrew again, most generous interpretation is that even if the fbi alerted the secret service on the evening of the 5th, they may not have known it was hundreds. may have been a discrepancy in the number, but certainly, any reasonable person understood from his testimony that it was an intelligence failure. we know that's not true. it was not. and i guess in my reporting that's out, you brought this to the attention of my viewers on the day of the hearing but i hadn't dug in enough to give it

the time it deserved and my colleague, ken dilanian, did this fantastic reporting. the point is this is right under the surface. i didn't make a ton of calls. all three of you know more people than i do, but it is right under the surface that there is deep and grave concern for people who care very much about the institution of the fbi who think he has created a vacuum by saying nothing. >> one, i completely agree with frank and his criticism and it's important to know that you have three people on right now who care deeply about the fbi and the institution. i hate to put more work on merrick garland's plate. the fbi is a part of the department of justice. many people don't realize that. they report directly into the deputy attorney general and the attorney general.

and chris wray had a very different response to the black lives matter protests all over the summer where they were all over it. the deputy director of the fbi said that it's the most significant domestic terrorism event facing the bureau. that was the black lives matter protest. and yet when january 6th happened, the fbi really was asleep at the switch and it wasn't an intelligence failure. it was a failure to act on the intelligence that they had and i find that chris wray's testimony was exactly what you do not want from public officials. it lacked candor and fulsomeness in saying what exactly they knew and where their failures were. how do you expect an institution to become better and to make sure this doesn't happen again if you don't have leaders who are going to be willing to acknowledge what went wrong and to figure out how to fix it?

i do think that it is a huge problem that chris wray is i think really not showing the correct leadership and that means that it really falls to the attorney general, the deputy attorney general to hold him to account for that failure. >> so pete strzok, the statement i read was from the fbi agents association and the irony isn't lost on me that the defense to what was unearthed in this memo is that agents are allowed to have personal opinions. oh, really? i want to know what you make in terms of sort of your ear to the ground. what you're hearing is going on. we live in a country where even fbi employees are granted the protections of the first amendment. it's not what this story's about. it's not what this conversation is about. it's about two former senior fbi officials saying that wray, by failing to fill the vacuum, is failing to sort of point the ship of the fbi in the direction

of insurrection bad, prosecuting insurrection is good. and that in that vacuum, a whole lot of sympathy for the insurrectionists has flourished. >> well, i think it's an important point to make that the vast, overwhelming majority have political opinions and every day they come in, they put those aside and honor their oath to the constitution. the fact is and i think you have a small number. an e-mail published and some people not in d.c. just watching that footage say, oh, well, this is a riot that got out of control. what concerns me is what you reported that even now, recently, that there might be anybody who would think this was just some sort of riot that got out of control. that isn't aware of these multiple, complex conspiracies going on weeks and months prior to the insurrection.

that there weren't these fake slates of electors that were being planned months before january 6th. that to me points to a leadership failure. you have got to have some ability to tell the workforce to educate the workforce. in unequivocal terms about what's going on. we don't know what's going on inside the hall of the fbi. i suspect e-mails would hear something about leaks in the media, people would say something. what concerns me is the only thing i've heard talking about political opinions recently is some people on the right getting director wray to say some poor agent he liked on twitter, that wray admits he finds it concerning. i agree with andrew about the attorney general and deputy attorney general being involved, but i agree internal change is hard. that's why we have inspectoring general. congressional oversight. i have yet to see, and i assume that the inspector general is doing some sort of look at the fbi's response to january 6th,

but when i look back at the appearances that senior officials have had, i've been stunned at the hard questions about what the fbi did or didn't do and to frank's point, that's not only important because of what happened, we've had midterm elections with a whole host of deniers on the ballot coming up in a month and a half. in two years, another presidential election where an entire party is basing their platform on denying any result other than donald trump and the republican nominee getting elected. this is a problem going forward and we've got to get our hands around it. >> let me just follow up. if there isn't an inspector general looking into this, this e-mail, it just came out, but it was written contemporaneously with the insurrection itself, would that be in your view a serious problem? the pentagon did a different kind of effort because there was military and ex military actually attacking the u.s.

capitol, but do you think some sort of ig look is appropriate? >> of course. i think when you look at any number of us who had our actions unpacked and looked at up, down, left, and right surrounding the investigations of secretary clinton then the russian interference in 2016, the good news out of that was the inspector general saying we found no evidence indicating there are any improper motivations behind anything the fbi did. and that gives a measure of reassurance to the american public that the fbi behaved and acted in a professional, appropriate way. if we don't have that same sort of look beyond this clearly troubling, occasions where agents are refusing to take part in january 6th investigations or suggesting they might sit on leads related to january 6th. that's tangible inaction that plays a real detrimental role of what the fbi's work is and it is

absolutely essential for not only the fbi to tackle this, but for outside entities to do so as well. >> i want to play for all of you something that's disturbing to read. disturbing to watch. this is something you've written about. this is a suspended fbi agent named kyle ser fim who describes the insurrectionist as goof balls. let me play him first and we'll sort of back into this part of the story. >> we were laughing about it and there's no other way to say it. i don't want to hide anything from anybody. we were literally laughing. people were cracking up. somebody has nancy pelosi's podium. is that the way our country is supposed to act? no. these were a bunch of clowns. that's not what an insurrection looks like to me. there was some real questions about what happened, but it was most li kind of like what a bunch of goof balls. i can't believe they did that. they obviously did some property damage. i don't condone that. definitely not fighting the cops. that's atrocious. this is washington, d.c., a city

this deals with aggressive protests and near riots on a regular basis. >> frank, this isn't the worst part of the story. that agent recently told "the washington times" and white supremacists are mostly quote entrapment. he's been suspended. at the moment. it began with his refusal to get a covid vaccine. i think that my viewers are certainly familiar with the testimony of officers ganell, dunne, fanone and others to know these weren't goof balls. they did a whole lot of physical damage to the people they engaged in quote medieval combat with for hours on end. how does that happen? walk me through this, frank. >> so first, he's suspended as are at least a couple of other agents who have refused to sign or not taken the proper path to

voice their opinions. in my opinion, they're not legal whistle blowers. they're running to the media or their favorite trump-loving congress member to complain about their political opinions not being listened to. one agent in the daytona beach resident agency of the fbi was suspended for refusing to join his s.w.a.t. team in the arrest of a january 6th defendant. in my 25 years, i've never seen a fellow s.w.a.t. agent walk away from his teammates. never. period. so that tells you who they are. what we've learned from this is that the fbi is not a monolith. they are not immune from what's going on in the greater society and shows you the degree to which the trump maga right has penetrated even the premier law enforcement agency in the fbi. in the nation. the agents are responsible for ferreting out the very domestic terrorism we're talking about

now has to patrol its hallways, staff, its rank and file to determine whether they've got problems in house and clearly in the case of at least a handful, they do have that problem. i've always disturbingly seen agents reportedly making a false equivalence between the black lives matters protest and what happened on january 6th. if an fbi employee can't figure out the difference between a black lives matter protest and an attack to stop our government from moving and peacefully transitioning power, they need to find another job and that's what these people are on their way to do. >> so andrew, i want to just want to be super clear. this isn't about holding up the lights and unfairly judging the political views of individual fbi agents. that's good. that's fine. that's america. this is about the rot that is the maga right infecting what

one of the most important, i don't know that i can think of one of the more institutions to our security now than the fbi and it's where the delusions come into play. i mean, these were armed militias. self-styled, illegal militias who were asked by donald trump to stop the transfer of power and there were, there was radio traffic. they were swinging from trees with ar-15s. it was an armed mob. how do you end up with people in the world's premier law enforcement agency who don't know that the sky is up and the ground is down who are deluded? >> well i think the first thing you said that's very important is that this is not about thought crimes. this isn't about people who are just expressing their views, but they know how to check that at the door as pete said and they do their job regardless of their own personal views.

to answer your question as to how this happens, i think it's a failure of leadership. you look at the way the fbi responded in the summer of 2020, to the black lives matter protests where they were on the scene of the date the protests were happening and they made arrests that day. that is not how they responded to the january 6th events and chris wray, i hate to say this, but his testimony was lacked candor. he said they didn't have specific information to act on. it was protected under the first amendment and there was insufficient information for them to do anything. we know that is simply not the case. that this was a case of whether with politics or race or combination thereof that the fbi leadership did not act and they are not speaking out about how people should behave at the fbi and how they should be thinking

about this in any meaningful, searching way that we should be able to expect of the fbi and the department of justice. so i really do think it comes back to the fact that the fbi director is not doing really what we should expect. you know, everyone who you have on this panel was trained under director mueller and one of the things he really sort of insisted on was when there were errors, we had to confront them, be candid about what happened, acknowledge it publicly, figure out what we were going to do to fix it, and have a system to audit those measures to make sure they were working. that was just beat into us as the way to approach any particular problem was to meet it squarely and head on. i think that is really sorely

lacking in what we're seeing here. and i think that this e-mail that sort of instigated this discussion is really emblematic of that failure of leadership. >> that mueller ethos emanated from his own personal code i'm sure and i worked in the administration in which he served as fbi director and what he sort of gave birth to in the lexicon was the fbi would never again first of all fail to sync up with a cia and all sorts of artificial and real walls were torn down and they would never again connect the dots. i've not heard one utterance of connecting the dots from wray in the days after the deadliest attack on the u.s. capitol in history. >> i think that's right and i think if you look at the scale in terms of a threat to democracy, 9/11 was a tragedy. we lost thousands of lives in a horrific way. we still mourn to this day. but when you look at something

that is an attack on democracy, something that could bring about a fundamental change to american governments, 9/11 is nothing to january 6th and the fact that the fbi and the rest of the government if they are not only on the same sort of war footing that they were on in the weeks and months and years after 9/11, shame on everyone. this is a far greater threat to our constitutional democracy than anything we've faced in the past 20 or more years. we need to be addressing it the same way. i suspect if they were, if we were, we might hear more about it and i think that's the sort of thing that gives a lot of observers, those of us who have been in the fbi, a little bit of concern whether the same urgency and approach to the situation, whether that's on par with the nature of the threat we're facing right now. >> really important and at times uncomfortable conversation. thank you to all three of you for having it with me. thank you so much. andrew sticks around. when we come back, as the

committee moves to subpoena donald trump, one top ally who defied his subpoena is now facing potentially significant jail time. how doj could move to hold donald trump accountable should he not comply with his congressional subpoena. that's next. plus, early voting is underway in the state of georgia. home to one of the most consequential contests in the senate. also, it was home to some of the most unprecedented threats endured by election workers. we'll look at how election workers are responding to that and check in on all the big battleground contests across the country. now just 22 days away. and later, antisemitism is being pushed and encouraged by the twice impeached ex-president in a dangerous and gross way as the republican party and trump's top enablers again stand by and largely stay silent. all those stories and more when we continue after a quick break. don't go anywhere. we continue after a quk icbreak. don't go anywhere. ♪ ♪

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do you believe if the president refuses held in criminal contempt? >> that's a bridge we cross if we have to get there. you know, look, we well recognize the fact that because of the committee only being able to exist until the end of this year, we're at a time limit. the torch has been passed to doj but also to the american people because we're seeing here's what the deal is. now it's up to you to stop this from a, happening again and really take control of a self-governing company. what kind of a country do you

want to live in. >> that was adam kensinger. the vote to subpoena the impeached ex-president, but the committee authorized only through the end of this congress, it comes amid increasing pressure being placed upon doj to pick up these cases. the case of the select committee has laid out before the american people. it also comes in the news that the department of justice has recommended that trump adviser, steve bannon, be sentenced to six months in prison and fined $200,000 for contempt of congress. doj writing this, quote, the rioters did not just attack a building. they assaulting the rule of law upon which this country was built and endures. by flouting the select committee's subpoena, it exacerbated that assault. bannon will be sentenced on friday. claire mccaskill, what do you think?

bannon sentencing document that is new to us today, but bannon's flouting the rule of law is sort of oldie but goodie. he's obviously one of trump's insurrection plotters. >> this may be the most important six month sentence ever imposed if the judge goes along with the doj recommendation. typically as a prosecutor who dealt with felonies, prison terms of less than a year, typically less serious crimes. and this is the opposite. this is a very serious crime. because of what it represents to this country. and what it represents to the attacks on the rule of law that have come from very different places, many different places under the trump regime. so i think it's very important for a judge to take this recommendation seriously and i think i share a lot of americans the hope that bannon serves every day of six months.

>> let me read more, andrew, of the doj filing on bannon's sentencing. the defendant's total noncompliance warrants a sentence of incarceration at the top end of the guidelines. respect for the rule of law is essential to the functioning of the united states government and to preserving the freedom and good order this country has enjoyed for more than two centuries. >> yeah, i think it's really important -- >> let me bring andrew in. sorry. >> yeah, of course. >> sorry, claire. i think it's important to put what the department did in context. technically because steve bannon was convicted of two counts. he technically could face a year in each and they could run consecutively but sentencing at the federal level is governed by the sentencing guidelines and

here, the sentencing guidelines call for if you stay within those guidelines for a zero sentence to six months and so what the department is saying here is that he should receive the top of those guidelines but they didn't advocate that it should be above the guidelines. that is something that is permissible but i think what they were saying is there are no factors that weren't this going outside of those guidelines but they wrote a truly i think well reasoned, beautifully written, very strong brief to the court about why that high-end guideline is appropriate here. i couldn't agree with claire more that the guidelines admittedly low for this kind of crime given the importance trying to deter what happens here and making sure people take seriously their obligation to testify and i think there are ample reasons to give him the

high-end meaning the six months and so i think all eyes are going to be on the court but i think there's a very good chance that the government's recommendation will be followed by the judge given the strength given the strength of the submission. >> claire, i'm struck by your point. this could be the most important six-month sentence. we'll never know exactly what played into subsequent recipients of subpoenas from the 1/6 committee's sort of decision making, but after the steve bannon sort of holding him accountable criminally for defying that subpoena, you can sort of pull back the curtain and see how much cooperation ensued. we'll never know just how much information flowed into this committee and will ultimately make its way to doj because of this you know, in the context of a deadly insurrection and donald trump's five years of flouting

the rule of law, but to your point, it may matter a whole lot more than just the months he spends in jail. >> i think so. there's thousands of witnesses that have talked to the 1/6 committee and i'm struck and i think it's important for us to remind ourselves of this of the hundreds of witnesses that were very big trump supporters that came forward and told the facts, told what they saw, what they heard. even though loyal to donald trump but they were more loyal to the rule of law. they were more loyal to the fact that they were being called legitimately to a committee and the law that was looking at the facts and they had an obligation to give those facts. so bannon and stone and all the jerks that just thumbed their nose at the process, they deserve time behind bars.

because if you do not do that, if we decide that this is a never mind deal, then congress has no power to ever ferret out the facts in the future and think of the consequences of that decision. >> it's amazing. largely significant. andrew, thank you so much for sticking around and being part of this conversation. claire sticks around for what's next because we'll turn to politics. early voting is underway in several key states including illinois where former former barack obama and former first lady michelle obama cast their ballots for the 2022 midterm elections just a little bit ago. a reminder of how important these contests are. we'll talk about where else people are voting today, next. people are voting today, next. w? ♪ what will you change? ♪ will you make something better? ♪ will you create something entirely new? ♪

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as you know, the countdown is on. just three weeks to go until election day. there's excitement in the air this afternoon. that is because today is the first day of voting in georgia. that's early voting. senator warnock, the democratic candidate in that race, submitted his ballot this morning. seeing people vote, watching democracy at work is always a thrill, but this year a rather sad sign of the times to tell you about. the alert system activated today allows poll workers across 159 counties there to immediately report any incidents or threats at their polling places. the system was described to nbc news this way.

it's a response to threats made against workers during and after the 2020 election. joining claire for this conversation, charlie sykes, editor at large for the bullwork and msnbc contributor. charlie, i always like to add that the threats are not in the climate. they're not around contests. they're on one side of american politics and it's the right. do you see any effort on the right to police their own supporters? >> you know, this is an interesting point because we've had reports for the last year of the rising number of threats, intimidation against election workers and you know, again, you would think that perhaps this would lead to a little bit of sobriety. a little restraint on the part of politicians who have been raising questions about the integrity of the vote, but exactly the opposite has happened. even faced with the reality that there are threats of violence, there have been reports throughout the country of these

attacks and conspiracy theories and misinformation against election workers who are many times volunteers. instead what you've seen across the country, election deniers actually ramping up the rhetoric and again, they're following the lead of the election liar in chief, donald trump. >> so charlie, i don't do this very often, but i'm going to give you multiple choice. do you want to talk about the republican who drinks his tea, the republican with the republican cop badge or the republican that dana bash ate for breakfast. >> i want to talk about the badge. the coverage was a classic example of the media having tired analogies of clearing the bar and herschel walker doing what he had to do, but that moment, i mean, this is a classic moment. i once found a ring in my

cracker jack box. does that mean i am a cia agent? this is what herschel walker is doing. he's got this fake badge and he's using it to claim that somehow he's a legitimate law enforcement officer, which is not true. he can't stop people. he can't arrest people. he has none of the powers of a police officer and yet everybody's going, okay, he cleared this minimal bar we set for the debate. didn't make a complete idiot of himself and yet i have to say i think that "saturday night live" had a better and clearer take of how absolutely ridiculous that moment was more than many members of the establishment media, which have now treated it as same old same old. >> only snl should cover the walker performance. claire, i'll give you the same choices. the republican who drinks his pee. the republican who dana bash ate for breakfast yesterday or herschel walker's fake badge.

you choose. i can't. >> you know, it's awfully hard. i think the fake badge. remember elvis got a bunch of fake badges and the same kind of thing. elvis used to love to show his badges, which nothing -- i think nixon gave him a fake badge. everybody wanted to be close to elvis. i don't think that walker is going to have that kind of following but i want to remind people, i hope we get to some of this, how close all these elections are. we can make fun of the badge but it is within the margin error in georgia. if people get some idea that somehow warnock does not need their help, walker will take

that badge and go straight to the united states senate. >> if republicans are in charge, it might work. warnock is a fantastic senator. one of the leading voices in the country on voting rights legislation, but claire's right. this is a close state and a closer than it should be contest. what do you think? >> the fact that herschel walker has a reasonable chance of becoming a member of the united states senate is an indication of just how tribal and crazy our politics has become. how much the bar of acceptable discourse has been lowered. she's right. i don't think anybody should think this is a slam dunk. all the polls have shown these are tight races and many of the candidates that you and i might think have been completely disqualified over and over again or who have embraced bizarre conspiracy theories are very possible and potential winners on election day.

if there's any sort of complacency at all on the part of the elector. >> claire, dr. oz drank his pee. he talked about it. that has emerged in the final weeks of the fetterman oz contest. what races are you watching? what's your thoughts on pennsylvania? what do you make of ohio? >> well, all the races that we've talked about all year are within the margin of error. people forget that it's three points either way. so if you've got a race within five or six, it is really within the error of the poll. so that means all these races, nevada, arizona, wisconsin, ohio, pennsylvania, north carolina, florida, all of them are in play. and i think really it's important for people to remember about the money. and i think i want to make a point about the money today.

there is hundreds of millions of dollars that is being deployed as we speak in the states i just named by a handful of billionaires. hundreds of millions of dollars going through mitch mcconnell and other dark superpacs to trash our candidates. our candidates have a chance and are competing because they're getting donations from voters. they're getting small donations and because they're entitled the lowest commercial rate, they can buy more time with less money. that's why the $5, the $10, the $20 to ohio and north carolina and pennsylvania and wisconsin and florida and nevada and arizona are all so, so important. especially at this moment. if you wait another two weeks, they're not going to be able to deploy those funds in a way that can help get all the voters out

and can help combat some of the trash that these candidates are having to put up with on the air waves right now. >> no one's going anywhere. up next for us, i hope you're sitting down. eric trump once actually said that his family business was saving the government and taxpayers huge sums of money. it turns out that wasn't close to true. in fact, it was the opposite. we'll explain. the opposite we'll explain. moderate to severe eczema still disrupts my skin. despite treatment it disrupts my skin with itch.

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you know, this is one thing people don't ever kind of give us credit for. any time the government comes and -- if my father travels, they stay at our properties free, meaning cost of housekeeping means you have to legally charge government something. so, everywhere that he goes, if he stays at one of his places, the government actually spends -- it saves a fortune because if they were to go across the street, they would be charged 500 bucks a night. we charge them 50 bucks. >> except when you don't, which is ever. you will be shocked to discover literally none of that was true. big ugly lie from -- that was eric trump. according to house oversight and reform committee released today, trump hotels charged secret service more than $1,100 a night. that would be more than five times the hotels across the street, even after trump left

office, not the $50 that eric talked about. charlie, this goes in the category of shocking but not surprising, clair. but the grift -- kudos to congress for still following the money. do you think we'll ever really understand the historic way in which the trump family enriched themselves on the backs of all u.s. taxpayers? >> no. i actually frankly find it unbelievable that they were so comfortable with it. it's so wildly inappropriate on its face. the appearance of impropriety is a flashing theater marquee, but they not only do it. they lied about it. and by the way, they're still doing it. you don't think that they're doing the same thing right now? a whole bunch of them are going to have secret service coverage, the former president will. the liar in chief will have it

forever. and they're going to do -- they're going to keep doing this. they only know how to grift. it is disgusting, and i hope they get after it and keep pulling these threads of misuse of public money. you would think the people that campaigned on saving taxpayer dollars back in the tea party era would realize that they are now in the home of big government overspending. >> so, here are the facts. here are the ledgers, charlie psychs. this is nbc's reporting on the oversight committee's report. quote, in one letter obtained, the secret service was charged $1,160 for a room at the trump international hotel in d.c. for agents protecting eric trump on march 8, 2017. the government rate for d.c. on that night was $242. on november 8, another ledger shows the secret service was charged $1,185 to lodge agents

protecting donald trump jr. the government rate was $201. i'm guessing -- and protection is every day, all day and all night. i'm guessing that if you run the numbers, you're at hundreds of millions of dollars. >> well, as clair said, it's always the grift. it's always the lies. and this story about the ripping off of the tax payers, the ripping off of the secret service, will probably be less than one paragraph in the book of donald trump's corruption, which will probably run about 10,000 pages. this is the problem with it. there is just so much. it's been so egregious. the shamelessness with which they have ripped off the tax payers, the way that they have used taxpayer money to enrich themselves and continue to do that, is not new. it is not breaking news. their willingness to brazenly lie about it is not news.

the question is whether they will ever be held accountable in any meaningful way for it. and of course that is to be determined, isn't it? as much as we talk about it, again, there is just so much. >> charlie, do you think it's a coincidence that it's the secret service? do you think they have some explaining to do? >> see, this is another aspect of it. andrew weissman treated out earlier today on this subject. he said, it's time to clean house at the secret service, and i could not agree more. this is another data point that something is seriously rotten in the state of the secret service. >> charlie psychs and claire mccaskill, thank you so much for spending time with us today. after a quick break, we'll turn to the dangerous rhetoric amplified by the twice-impeached expresident. that's after a quick break. don't go anywhere. what will you change? ♪ will you make something better? ♪ will you create something entirely new?

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is if i die too. [ screaming ] you had a group on one side that was bad and you had a group on the other side that was also very violent. and nobody wants to say that, but i'll say it right now. you had some very bad people in that group. but you also had people that were very fine people on both sides. >> no, you didn't. hi, again, everyone. it was one of the defining moments of an historic presidency. donald trump praising fine people on both sides, including the mob of white nationalists who marched in charlottesville chanting "jews with not replace us." we bring that up again in light

of what the former president posted yesterday. we show it now not to amplify but to make everyone aware of what's happening in our country. these comments are being made by a man who holds so much sway over a large swath of americans. in a post yesterday, the ex-president donald trump said, jews need to, quote, get their act together and appreciate what they have in israel, with an ominous warning, before it is too late. "washington post" reports american jews have long been accused of holding secret loyalty to israel rather than the u.s. and trump suggests that by virtue of their religion, american jews should show more appreciation to israel. we don't need the former president who curries favor with extremists and antisemimites to lecture us about the u.s./israel

relationship. it is not about a quid pro quo. alex holder tweeted this, quote, irresponsible and dangerous. as a jew, i experienced this language first hand while interviewing trump. we saw this emerge as a pattern during trump's presidency at a hanukkah event at the white house. when speaking to american jews, trump called israel, quote, your country. in 2019 he said this, quote, if you vote for a democrat, you're very disloyal to israel and to the jewish people. we have seen the serious and dangerous consequences of this type of hateful and anti-semitic rhetoric in this country. the tree of life synagogue shooting where 11 jewish people were killed at their place of worship echoed a conspiracy theory that donald trump spread,

a caravan of central american migrants coming to america. last week we saw the gop nominee for governor in pennsylvania t state where the tree of life shooting took place, double down on criticisms of the jewish day school his opponent attended and his children still attend. and rapper, we call it -- i think we call it ye, ye -- former called kanye west got kicked off twit r for his own dangerous posts. this is where we begin the hour. the ceo and national director of the antidefamation league is here. also rich stengel, formal state department official, now msnbc political analyst. we separate out these conversations because they're all connected. we talk a lot about what you do about this historic domestic violence threat, freedom of

speech, freedom of assembly, freedom of association. but it's all connected. it's connected to the hate, and the hate is connected to one of the oldest hatreds in the world. and that's anti-semitism. >> yes. they describe anti-semitism as the oldest hatred. and it's persisted across cultures and countries literally for hundreds and hundreds of years. so, flash forward to today, as you said, right now, the mess that we're seeing across the country, it's a dangerous time. and these are why trump's words were so dangerous. i mean, we've seen the issue go through and evoke tropes and myths about jewish power, dual loyalty, and this not so veiled threat. the highest number of anti-semitic incidents the adl has ever seen in more than 40 years. and this year, this week, the last couple weeks, we've had issues at berkeley, california,

at cal, anti-semitism on the campus. a jewish man assaulted in brooklyn just a few days ago. kanye west's sort of very -- i don't want to minimize or stigmatize mental illness. but these are truly frightening over. the weekend he did a podcast and complained about, quote, jewish zionists. i need to say, the jewish community feels threatened right now because the threats are real, and we're feeling all a bit anxious. >> i want to ask about the impact of an amplifier like kanye west and donald trump on the threat environment that, as you point out, is tragically always there. >> it's very real. so, just a few years ago, we had a group of black hebrew israelites, a small religious sect, that believed they were the real jews and shot up a kosher supermarket in jersey city. we had the deranged shooter in tree of life. six months to the day, another shooter with an automatic weapon

went into a synagogue in pow way, california. i could go on and on with these stories. per capita, jews are the most targeted religious minority in the united states. less than 2% of the population. >> and right now, i mean, the governor's race in pennsylvania. these aren't hidden things on the campaign manager's website. this is the republican candidates association with these attacks. >> it is scary when you have candidates and people in elected office espousing christian nationalism. and you have other candidates in office espousing radical anti-zionism. so, from both sides jewish people feel like we are living in a period of uncertainty, unlike any in recent memory. >> what is the remedy? people don't -- people are not born with a hatred. they're not born prejudice. but when it is so -- you know, the circuit breakers don't exist

anymore. it used to be that if a mass shooter quoted a politician, the politician was done. donald trump just seems to be in a constant rise. >> it really is stunning. i think there are a few things. so, number one, we need people in public light to call this out clearly, consistently. >> did any republicans call out trump yesterday? >> no. not a single one i'm aware of. there are people like liz cheney and adam kinzinger going to great risks, standing up to his authoritarianism and kleptocracy. if you go back to the kanye tweets and statements from last week, you have the republicans on the house judiciary committee actually posting support. they wrote, trump, kanye, elon, referring to elon musk. i don't know what to make of that. it's a bit bewildering. there are plenty of jewish people in the republican party who know this is -- and

non-jewish people -- who know this is wrong. but for some reason there are some who are still enthralled to trump. >> why do you think that is? >> look, you put it well before. he has a sway over so many people in the party. and he has emboldened extremists. and i think, you know, at adl we track these armed militia groups. we've seen thousands of proud boys and oath keepers specifically in elected office, members of the military, members of law enforcement, emergency responders, even. and i feel like in some ways, part of our republican party, part of the public, is being held hostage by these armed militia groups afraid of the extremism that has been unleashed. it's almost impossible to get back in the bottle. >> i saw some very special interviews you did with my friend, dana bash. i think if you aren't you jewish and you don't go to temple every week. >> today is a jewish holiday,

and i was there, you know in shoal. and you have to negotiate a phalanx of security. not metal detectors in our facility. but locks on the doors, armed security guards there. most people are used to walking into church of temple, not the jewish community. whether it's day school or the non-profit office or the jcc or a synagogue, all of them literally are fortified because the attacks are so real. and so i think as a jewish community, we've learned, nicole, the hard way. we have to be vigilant. and that's why the normalization of anti-semitism, whether it's coming from the former president of the united states or the president of the university, it worries all of us. you know, it's not necessarily just the domain of one political party. from the right and the left, from religious fanatics. from rappers like kanye.

this just only underscores why the community feels so concerned. >> and that vigilance has a traumatizing effect. there are many preschools, right, and schools. tell me what you think would turn this around? >> well, i think there are a few things. i think there are a few things. first and foremost, we need public officials like prominent officials to call it out when trump does it. >> would you call mcconnell and mccarthy and say, you're the most powerful republicans in the senate and the house, could we get a statement from you condemning this anti-semitism? could you have those conversations? >> we've had a lot of conversations. >> what do they say? >> i wouldn't put that out here. >> but they don't put out statements. are they anti-semitic? >> definitely not. >> why don't they put out statements? >> i don't know that mitch mcconnell said anything after trump went after his wife last week. >> fair. >> and that was gross rationalized hate against trump's former secretary elaine

chao. we're living in a moment where hate has been so heightened and amplified, one of the things that could happen right away is social media. we've talked about this before. social media is an amplifier of these issues. it has allowed anti-semitism and other forms of hate to really spread. if we could finally get the companies to make a clear commitment, get congress to regulate them once and for all, that would change things dramatically. >> we know it's not a tech issue, they can take all sorts of things off the internet. why don't they take anti-semitism off? >> i just think there is this overreaching, if you will, commitment to what they call the first amendment. they fail to remember freedom of speech isn't the freedom to slander people. adl is a civil rights organization. we're ferocious defend rs of the first amendment. but when you threaten someone because of how they pray, let

alone where they're from or who they love, these companies are making such profits and they're unregulated because of the loophole called section 230. you wouldn't allow an automobile company to make cars without seat belts. you wouldn't allow a nicotine company to make cigarettes without a wrapper with a label. >> you can't eat raw fish without a warning to pregnant people. >> bingo. >> tragically, it's not a uniquically american problem, but we have a uniquically american sickness. the top republicans won't condemn anti-semitism. the top republican won't condemn racist comments about his own wife. what does this portend for where we're heading? >> you're right, nicole, to make it a larger issue. and jonathan, of course, did a fantastic job of calling out and combatting anti-semitism. but prejudices don't come alone.

people are not just prejudice against one religion or one ethnicity or one nationalism. and as jonathan said, the normalization of anti-semitism, the normalization of other prejudices is something that is degrading our democracy. one of the things that does signal democratic decline is this idea of us and them in our culture. the right wing republicans who are christian nationalists divide the country into us and them. everybody else, except christians, are them, the other, people who are not americans. that goes back to the trope we talked about earlier of jews alleged dual loyalty, that they're citizens of israel, not citizens of the united states, that they are not loyal to america. that's something that white christian nationalism sees for every group except themselves. that is what's so dangerous. and when the parties are polarized in this way, then you

really see the demise of democracy. >> this is such an important point. hate is corrosive to democracy. it erodes. >> it can't coax us. >> yeah. it eats away at the shared fabric of civil life. we've seen this in northern ireland, the former yugoslavia, all over the middle east. when you start saying no jews allowed, jews are different, no zionists are allowed, zionists are different, it is a har binger of something terrifying. we're seeing the cracks in our foundation that resemble northern ireland in the '70s or resemble the former yugoslavia. trump and others need to put this back in the bottle before it's too late. >> i want to ask about the intersectionality with putin's

messages. i mean, american republicans sound like vladimir putin. i mean, is it a symptom or a cause? right? do they talk like him because they want to become an autocracy, or are we moving away from being a democracy, so they sound like him? >> i mean, it's a cause in the sense that this has been happening all across the globe. in eastern europe and russia as well. i mean, putin describes himself as a white christian nationalist. he calls russia the last bastion of white christianity. this is more than a dog whistle. this is freedom to say that everybody who is not a white christian is not an actual member of that nation. the other thing i wanted to bring up, and you guys talked a little bit about social media. and we've talked a lot about on your show for the last few years about conspiracy theories. anti-semitism is a conspiracy theory. it's one of the oldest conspiracy theories. it's this conspiracy that jews

control the media, that jews control the financial world, that the rothschild family is behind all of these things. it's a conspiracy theory that has flourished like all these other conspiracy theories that emanate not only from ignorance but the fact that, as jonathan said, social media is an accelerant of that. that's dangerous. and i agree with the criticism of section 230. the social media companies have to have the ability to take down hate speech like that, to take down conspiracy theories, to take down anti-semitism. and by the way, it violates their terms of service right on the face of it. >> jonathan, is there anything that we're uniquely doing wrong? and i guess my question is about how we fix it. can we fix it by ourselves? i ask this question of democrats all the time. can you save democracy by yourself or do you need more than liz cheney and kinzinger to help you? can we solve this within our borders, or is it part of this connection of autocracies to

finding themselves as white christian nationalists? >> you and rick are right to go there because this rise of christian nationalism whether it's victor or vaughn or vladimir putin, it's infected the dialogue here. if we're going to solve this problem in america -- i believe in american exceptionalism. what we've done over the series is amazing. it will require an all hands on deck effort. it can't just be adam kinzinger and liz cheney. it's a start, but we need business and faith leaders and elected officials on both sides. >> can you do it without the leadership of one of the two political parties in america? >> it will be very hard. we need our leaders to lead. our constitutional system depends on this. but more than this, our value system depends on this. when they don't lead and when they talk us in the wrong

direction, we shouldn't be surprised when people follow. and that's how things fall apart. >> what scares you more? that mcconnell and mccarthy wouldn't put out a statement? or that some people are going to vote for doug mastriano. >> i'm going to screw up the quote, but it's not the words of our enemies but the silence of our friends. where is the widespread public outrage? >> right. and that's new. >> it is new. it is new. that's how someone like mastriano, blake masters, these other people run for office. they're legitimized in an environment where extremism is accepted. >> like mitch mcconnell can say i'm not going to find -- >> the jewish community feels like frogs in boiling water. we're consuming threats from craziness on all sides. people across the country are alarmed, they are worried. it feels like never is now. >> we'll keep this conversation going. thank you very much for starting us off. when we come back, it's long been ground zero for the big lie. but now the republican nominee

for governor of arizona is outright refusing to say she'll accept the results of next month's election unless she wins buchlt she says that winning means the results are good, right? fraud free. that dangerous, dangerous duality and the grave damage it's doing to american democracy is our next story. plus russia is using drones to target kyiv in a brutal strain of attacks. we'll go to ukraine's capital city. and we'll have a sneak peek at our brand-new series of special reports here at "deadline white house" on america's lg mental health. "deadline white house" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. don't go anywhere. for over 100 years, lincoln's been exploring new ways to deliver sanctuary in its vehicles.

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election day is just three weeks away. the election conspiracy theories and republican candidate for governor, kerry lake, is telling us out loud she will not accept the results of the election there unless she wins it. you might have to see this to believe it. >> my question is will you accept the results of your election in november? >> i'm going to win the election and i will accept that result. >> if you lose, will you accept that? >> i'm going to win the election, and i will accept that result. >> that's a no. polling averages show lake

leading by just .8%. joining us, founder of the sos project for effort to defeat trump-backed secretary of state candidates. vaughn hillyard, who has covered the campaigns in california, including lake's better than anybody else on the planet. i am sure you were not shocked by that, but most people were. explain. >> kari lake is someone who every step of the way her allegations of voter fraud have been shot down. this started in the days after january 6. this then led to ultimately the cyber ninjas audit report. those findings were shot down. >> because they didn't find any fraud. >> because they didn't find any fraud. and they have tried. just this friday, over the last couple of months, we heard about this movie "2,000 meals" which

has been pushed by this group called true to vote. alleged there were meals around the country that stuffed ballots into drop boxes in arizona. but just on friday, the republican arizona attorney general yet again issued not only a report but a referral to the fbi and the irs saying that true the vote have yet to ever present them any evidence of voter fraud. and that is why they have referred them because they have amassed gobs of money here. so, suddenly, once again, kari lake, who has been relying on "2,000 mules" her latest effort over the last couple of months, the most recent allegations to have been shot down. >> close watchers of the january 6 public hearings would know this. bill barr famously and notably sneers and scoffs and laughs out loud at how asinine the 200 -- what is it? 2,000 mules are.

it's bs. it's bologna. they brought the same bogusness to judges and they lost every case. what do you do in a post-fact country? >> well, this is the biggest threat, internal threat, to our democracy in my lifetime. and i think if you're somebody who is paying attention, whether you're a democrat or a republican or independent, this doesn't matter what party you are. you have to keep talking about this as a threat to our democracy. and the worry that i have is the everyday voter is going to be more concerned about inflation and gas prices, that they will miss this threat. you know, we have kari lake, and she's not the only one. 50% of republican candidates state-wide around the country are election deniers right now. this is a big deal. and we have to keep talking about it. we have to. >> what does the race look like to you? what did the momentum feel like

it was? it's basically tied. >> i think it's important for people to realize that the kari lake of november 2021 is different than the kari lake we're heading to november 2022. she's much more polished on policy a year ago. she was up on the stage with likes of mike lindell, michael flynn, all of those folks. now she's got the supports of even the likes of doug ducey. glenn youngkin is campaigning with her on wednesday. she can talk about water. she talks about inflation. she introduced a policy measure to take back the grocery tax in arizona. >> she has no fact in immigration. >> this is the issue here is that she is presenting policies not only through campaign television advertisements, through her rallies as well, that suddenly it's easy to forget what she believes when it comes to election denialism. she doesn't walk back from any of these claims, and she just said a week ago when donald trump was in town at the rally

for anybody that thinks she's going to step away from trump, they need to pick up the crack pipe belonging to someone in the biden family. she has called for perp walks for people to be arrested. at the same time the folks of arizona are being presented a more polished, someone backed by the likes of these establishment republican figures in the state. >> i guess it speaks to the rot on the right. it's like "the truman show." it took dana bash five minutes to scratch and just get at the shallowness. her facts are -- immigration, the policies she has presented in her polished manner. and she's got her facts all wrong. how do you -- have you been -- how do you have debates if there are no facts? >> well, it's really hard. obviously. i think, you know, we just have to keep our eye on the ball here. i think it's also important to

note that this isn't just happening in arizona. this is happening in minnesota, in michigan, in nevada, in pennsylvania. and it's not just kari lake. you know, and i'm concerned about her. i'm certainly concerned about her becoming governor. i'm also concerned about mark finchem becoming secretary of state in arizona because he stood up next to donald trump and basically said along with jim marchant in nevada, if you elect our slate of secretary of state around the country, we are going to make sure that donald trump gets back in the white house in 2024. this is a real concern. we have to keep our eye on the ball here. >> do you two have your eyes on this all the time? and for that i am so grateful to both of you. amy mcgrath, vaughn hillyard, wonderful to see you both in the studio. thank you so much. when we come back, russia unleashing a wave of attacks on

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it's a terrible deal for california. we win. you lose. it has largely been cruise missiles doing the damage until now. it is a drone that has collapsed the side of this apartment building. rescuers are searching for survivors. >> that was our good friend, nbc news reporter, cal perry, in the

streets of kyiv earlier today after a wave of russian attacks. this time from iranian-built kamikaze drones. the new attacks come just a week after russia unleashed attacks on the city for the first time since the early days of the war. ukrainian officials say that russia is using more of the iranian drones, as they run low on missiles. five of the drones hit their targets, with one of the drones striking that residential building cal was reporting from, killing at least three and wounding four. the search and rescue team still continuing to look for missing people in the rubble. russia has amped up their attacks following an explosion on the bridge linking russia to the annexed region of crimea. as vladimir putin continues to suffer humiliating losses on the battlefield. egor noef convalescent. it has been many months since i messaged you in the middle of the night to say, are you okay, is your family okay, but i did that last night.

take us back and tell us about this attack. >> it's another monday. last monday, we had cruise missiles. this monday we had drones. we're under an air raid at the moment, so some drones are still flying. this morning i woke up to chaos. there were air defense, missile explosions. there were drone explosions. there was gunfire. and you know, a bit of a positive story. one of the drones was actually taken down by our policemen just using kalashnikovs. the most worrying thing about these drones is not the damage they cause, although they have killed four people today in kyiv. it's how their democratizing warfare. they're incredibly cheap. they allow you to spam defense systems. and basically we have iranian munitions flying in the heart of europe. so, i think it should be a wakeup call to the western world, and we need to do something about it. >> that was my question. is the western response to iranian supplied attacks in

kyiv, does it need to be different? and, again, i'm not even sure what i'm getting at here. but this is clearly the coordination between iran and russia in carrying out basically terror -- a campaign of terrorism against civilians in ukraine. >> well, first of all, i'm incredibly surprised that israel is so far staying neutral. although we're seeing the change of messaging. yet what's happening with this iranian equipment is wrong. i mean, it shouldn't be happening. and there is an easy way to actually prevent it. if the u.s. and the west condition deliveries of long-range missiles to ukraine on further deliveries of these drones to russia, i think that would be a perfect deterrent because nothing scares putin more than ukraine having capability of striking 300, 500, or 700 kilometers. and a positive story, ukrainian people are amazing. we started fundraising. the cause is revenge.

so, there are two different fund-raisers already raising millions and millions of dollars. one is to build armed rooms. and we're quite far along that line. and also to provide ukraine with drone defense capability. so, ukrainian people are doing their part as well. >> that's never -- that seems like it is so instrumental to the fact that ukraine is winning the war and having all these humiliating advances on the battlefield. one other consequence is this -- i don't know if it's more than a half step toward a draft in russia. and there's all sorts of reporting about young men being taken off the streets and to the front line. are you seeing that yet? >> we are seeing some killed and wounded in action, freshly mobilized soldiers. but i don't think that's the main threat to ukraine. i mean, they're trying obviously to spam the front line as well.

so, they're stuffing with cannon fodder. so, that's not dangerous. i think what putin is playing with now is toying with the idea of frightening everyone into submission with tactical nuclear weapons and also trying to provoke belarus into war. i think the we're seeing belarus and potentially another assault in kyiv. >> igor, what is -- you've given us incredible color about what life is like now. you've said on the air and in our conversations that you've never felt more alive. but the truth is, four people in kyiv died this morning. what is that like? >> well, it's surreal. i mean, i think that will be the best term to describe it. my kind of job description means that i am privy to all that information, and it goes through me. so, i have to digest it. it's incredibly tragic and it's difficult to cope with. at the same time, you know me. i'm just trying to kind of focus on the positive despite

everything. the story of those four people killed in kyiv is tragic because one of those four was a 6-month pregnant woman -- six months into her pregnancy, this woman. and she died with her husband and with her cat needlessly just because the drone missed its target. and it did miss. yeah, it's tragic, but at the same time, look, focus on the positivity. i love the fact that the ukrainian government had to issue a statement today saying if you own a firearm, don't shoot at the drones. let the police do that. >> and that goes back to the earliest days of the war when we were talking to you about the weapons training that ukrainian civilians were getting. i know you have friends and family on the frond front lines. what do you hear from the front lines? >> my cousin is between rotations now. he's not on the very front line. he will be going in a couple days. the offensive is not going as fast as it was, but it's still going.

ukraine is winning on the battlefield. that's why putin is desperate to escalate. he's got two main targets. target number one is the midterms. everything he's doing, you know, the fear, frightening everyone, that's to do with the midterms. basically he's rooting for certain people. and, you know, if all goes well for him, there's a g20 meeting in indonesia in november. and i think that's a deadline he set for himself. but at the same time, he's going to go very theatrical. so, expect atrocities to kind of go through the roof within the next few weeks. >> it's just so harrowing delivered with your sort of trademark stoicism. igor novikov, my friend. please, to you and your family, stay safe. shifting gears completely for us to a brand-new series of "deadline white house" series about the state of mental health

in america, something really important to me and to us these days. a preview of that and a conversation with our dear friend, joy reid, after a quick break. don't go anywhere. after a quick break. don't go anywhere. ♪ what will you do? will you make something better? create something new? our dell technologies advisors can provide you with the tools and expertise you need to bring out the innovator in you. (bridget vo) with thyroid eye disease... i hid from the camera. the tools and expertise you need and i wanted to hide from the world.

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♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ what will you do? will you make something better? create something new? our dell technologies advisors can provide you with the tools and expertise you need to bring out the innovator in you. we are so happy to be able to unveil something here first that we've been working on for many months at "deadline white house." it's called "deadline special report." it is a personal and close look at america's mental health

emergency. it's a project close to all our hearts. the hope is we can play a small role in order to put it out there and destigmatize the conversations going on around mental health. we start out talking to. so people, many of them household names, who are pulling back the curtain on their own mental health struggles and journeys, including golden globe winning actress, p. henson. here's a small preview of that conversation. >> in today's society and why mental health is so important and so important that we talk about it is because we've become comfortable with normalizing our trauma. you know? oh, she'll get over it. you know, just push through. the grind mentality. just keep going. like, you can't. you cannot. at some point you're going to hit a brick wall. at some point you're going to implode. so, you have to deal with -- you have to deal with your feelings. there's no way around it. >> nobody wants to.

>> i know. but you have to. >> have you -- i mean -- >> you're going to get to a place where it's going to get the best of you. >> did that happen to you? >> absolutely. >> she's so cool. her brutal honesty about her own struggles, including what she describes as suicidal ideations during the coronavirus pandemic, is not the only way she's broadening the conversation about mental health. through her foundation named after her late father, she is asking her communities of color ask for and get the help they need when it comes to mental health. my entire conversation is streaming right now on peacock. and i'm so grateful to have my friend and colleague, joy reid, host of ""the reidout." joy, she was so real and human, but she was also so dialled into the systemic problem. she said, basically if you've got 30%, 40% of the population that needs help, you've got less

than 5% of all therapists and psychologists who are people of color. and you don't have to match perfectly, but part of the trauma that she talks about is trauma so specific to women of color, professional women of color, children of color. what do you think about her sort of putting all this out there? >> well, first of all, i love her. she's brilliant. and i want to thank you. i want to dig you up for really having this conversation, any had coal. it's really important and it's one of these things we don't talk about because there's the idea of the strong black woman. we're supposed to handle it and handle all these things and no matter what hits you. for her to peel back the fact that, you know, there's vulnerability in black girl magic. and for her to talk about it is so important. and for you to have this conversation with her, i think, is brilliant. i think, yeah, she's a celebrity. she's a wealthy, successful

person. so, people assume she can't also be a person who deals with trauma. but we all deal with trauma and stress. and i think during the pandemic -- i don't know about you, but it brought all the of the stresses and anxieties that we deal with in our business where we just literally give bad news all the time. we live in it. we're steeped in it. and we know a lot more than what we're even sometimes able to report in 7-10 minute segments. that's traumatizing, and i think it's important to talk about it. >> so, you're the first person i've shown this to and i've talked to about this. when she's there talking about how you have to deal with your you know what? i said, we don't want to. she said, well, it gets you. you know, it gets you. i thought of our conversation on election night in 2016 where we were like -- and i think we were thinking about our jobs. we were also thinking about our kids, like, oh, my god, they too are going to wake up in trump's america. but we don't -- i think i -- i

think we all sort of stuff it down. that's what's universal. >> you know, it's absolutely true. and absolutely. i still remember -- i have ptsd from that election night and the 2016 election night when you and i were in the green room together until 2:00 in the morning, that election night when we were all thinking n your inner room with a lot of people. it was interesting that it was mostly with republicans and people who had been republican operatives. none of us were talking about politics. we were all talking about what world are we going home to. i can remember going back home at 2:00, 3:00 in the morning and my kids were still up. and my youngest said, what are we supposed to do? she talked about the fact that when you and i decide we're going to deal with our stress -- i tried therapy for the first time in a serious way during the pandemic. let me just try this.

it was very important that i needed a different help and a different kind of person to talk to than you might need because there is a culturally specific need. if there's certain things you want to talk about -- and the question is, does the person you're talking to understand like the racial component of your trauma? they might. or they might not. so, finding somebody who is either in culture or that at least is familiar culturally, that's a part of the journey of figuring out who can i talk to that's going to really get it. so, i think it's really layered and teraji is addressing that. who can i talk about my stress . who can i talk to about my stress with? work friends, gals. and also someone who gets all the layer of it. >> she came with all the ideas about how we scale the solutions. i think the truth s she and you

and i have access. our hurdles to care are more the ones that we put, right, in our own sort of mountains between us and sort of talking about it or dealing with our stress or whatever it is. she has a really realistic look at the fact that that is privilege in and of itself for all of us. and i want to show you what she's talking about for scaling mental wellness. she says it and you're like, why don't we do that tomorrow? here's her idea about respite pods. let me play this. >> so from the neckdown you're doing yourself a disservice. >> total little we're starting this new program called wellness and respite. respite containers, and putting them on hbcus. we're putting them in unconditional safe spaces like conferences. >> tell me about that. is it is a nap? >> it's a safe space for you to go if you feel meantry distressed. think about it.

you have drugstores on every corner. you have a cough, an ailment, there's something you right on every corner. >> a pill. >> that you can get. what about that mental being, where do i go when i'm having a mental breakdown. >> anyone that has flown commercially, beened in dmv. i was like, we could make the list right here where we need them. i always want a nap. she's like, it's not a nap. it's that pause. it's so simple. it's the breath. it's the container. what do you think of that? >> no, i think it's brilliant and by the way, i am also very pronap. the thing is, it's great. you know what is so crazy, nicole, there's the big stresses, right, that are like, oh, my god, democracy is ending and we have a fascist potential takeover of america. there's that stress. then there's also the, i have an hour lunch and i'med in dmv and

i literally am losing it right now. if i can't get through the line, get to the front line of the post office i'm going to have a breakdown right now. not everyone has the privilege of having exceptional health-care plans that come through our job. thank you very much to our workplace. some people need help and don't have the resources to get it. they don't have a list of providers that come through their practitioner they can access, and they are might not have insurance, might not have resources to pay for it. the idea of being able to access mental health resources in a crisis moment no matter where you are, whether it's the big things or little things, i think about the people in upstate new york who went through that trauma after the shooting in that supermarket. going back into the supermarket has got to be traumatizing for people who have to shop, and that is where you shop, right? i'm sure your kids had the same

experience. my kids after any of these shootings, the idea of having to go back to school, uvalde, there's spaces where you need mental health counselling right here, right now, because the trauma is immediate. it could be from something you experienced or saw or heard about on the news. it can be at any moment, and i love the idea of being able to access that wherever you are. >> and it's a hard thing. you don't need to get on a zoom. you don't need to find a therapist. it is a structural thing. >> getting on a zoom is traumatizing! zoom is trauma. >> you are such a dear colleague and you're such a dear friend. thank you so much. i was scared to do this, so thank you for doing it with me. thank you. >> i am so proud of you. look, everything you do is amazing. my whole life stops at 4:00 p.m. eastern standard time. i'm like, i got watch nicolle.

>> thank you for doing this before your show, 7:00 p.m. on the readout. thank you so much, my friend. we're going to have more of our special, show you the part of our series that we did about ptsd specifically, a powerful conversation with rosie perez about healing from childhood trauma. all four episodes are streaming now, including my conversation with the incomparable taraji p. henson. quick break. we'll be right back. l be right . (snorting) (clattering) (frustrated grunt) i need some sleep. (groaning) (growling) (silence) (sigh, chuckle) if you struggle with cpap, you should check out inspire. inspire. sleep apnea innovation. learn more and view important safety information at inspiresleep.com.

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atlanta, detroit, milwaukee late they are month. he'll headline get out the vote events alongside stacy abrams and senator rafael warnock. and his campaign stops are all forward looking. his office says he will be pokesed on races in states that will, quote, have consequences for the administration of our elections in 2024. another break for us. we'll be right back. back. what will you do? will you make something better? create something new? our dell technologies advisors can provide you with the tools and expertise you need to bring out the innovator in you. (vo) get the new iphone 14 pro on us. right now t-mobile is including apple business essentials

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thank you so much for letting us into your homes during these extraordinary times. we are grateful. "the beat" with ari melber starts right now. hi, ari. >> can we try -- i kopt hear. is nicolle there. can i hear her? she's gone. hi, everyone. welcome to "the beat." i'm ari melber, and we're going through some technical difficulties, but i think we're going to be okay. you can hear the music. that means we'red in midterms homestretch. tomorrow marks three weaks from election day. tonight there are some high stakes. marquee debates, stacy adams versus governor kemp. and j.d. vance will be facing