it's 4:00 in new york. the panel tasked with the insurrection is likely to issue a subpoena tomorrow to the man

who's at the center plot to overturn the election. the man whose lies about the results pose a threat to democracy to this day. the ex-president himself, donald trump. that subpoena promises to add to his mountain of legal trouble and peril. the ones he already faces. multiple investigations into his handling of government records, family businesses and his attempt to overturn his defeat. it sets the stage for a number of big decisions for the january 6 select committee. abc news is reporting this. on internal deliberations within the committee on what his testimony could look like. there's been talk for months about whether they want trump to testify in a live setting. no doubt they want him to testify under oath. some members are hesitant to give him a live stage while others view it as beneficial to the investigation as they would get to question him under oath and there appears to be more of

an openness to committee members having him appear live. should he refuse, the committee will face the question of whether they should hold him in contempt. that would make trump the fifth person to be held in contempt by the committee. at the same time that the justice department is prosecuting two of his allies on contempt of congress charges stemming from a referral from this panel. but regardless of what happens next, the very decision to subpoena donald trump is a watershed moment for a committee that has from the start kept the question of whether donald trump and his allies committed crimes front and center in its investigation. "new york times" is reporting this. quote, it is not clear whether the committee will follow through and take the largely symbolic step of issuing a criminal referral for donald trump on anyone who worked with him to overturn the election and

encourage the mob of his supporters who entered the capitol seeking to block certification of his defeat. but throughout its investigation and hearings, the committee has operated with a prosecutorial style, using the possibility of criminality like a cod yul in extraordinary ways. it has laid out a detailed narrative that could be useful to the justice department in deciding whether to wring charges. the case against trump is where we start the day. joyce vance is here, law professor at the university of alabama. also, my friend, the former rnc chairman, michael steele is here. and "new york times" washington correspondent, mike schmidt is here. mike, take me through the reporting and we pulled some of the examples that you named. let me play those for you of liz cheney really starting to hue

from the criminal code. >> did donald trump through action or inaction corruptly seek to obstruct or impede congress' official proceedings to count electoral votes? he could have told them to go home and he failed to do so. it's hard to imagine a more significant and serious dereliction of duty than that. >> is his failure to make that statement criminal negligence? >> i think there are a number of as the chairman said, potential criminal statutes at issue here. >> so for a president to through either his action or inaction, for example, attempt to impede or obstruct the counting of electoral votes, an official proceeding of congress, the committee is looking at that. looking at whether what he did constitutes that kind of a crime. >> it's absolutely clear that what president trump was doing,

what a number of people around him were doing, that they knew it was unlawful. >> from your reporting, it's clear this is significant in terms of the history of investigations, but it also, we may never release into this completely, but it has clearly lit a fire under the justice department. >> i think that to understand why the committee did this and the effect of this that it's had, we have to remember the other investigations of donald trump. he was impeached twice. never convicted. and obviously removed from office. the mueller investigation, which looked at whether he broke the law, did not even make a edition about whether he actually broke the law. these investigations failed to stop trump. he was unbound, unbridled and continued on to do what he wants.

so when this committee was formed, it took a different perspective and approach. it was staffed differently. they put a former u.s. attorney in charge of the day-to-day work of the investigation. and starting from that time where liz cheney read from the code, they approached the public like a jury at a criminal trial and spoke to them like they were trying to build criminal elements. most congressional investigations are about revealing new facts and providing recommendations on whether new legislation should be there. this committee's public posture has been criminality, criminality, criminality. how can we show this? how can we educate the public about it? up until the middle of the sum er, we didn't really know the justice department was investigating this. so whether they would have gotten there or not without the committee, certainly the

perception exists that the committee is the one that pushed the justice department and merrick garland there. >> the assistance that the committee had in this effort seems to also include a federal judge who said this. and this was around litigation i think for john eastman's records. judge david carter ruled in an extraordinary ruling that quote the illegality of the plan was obvious. our nation was founded on the peaceful transition of power, epitomized by george washington laying down his sword to make way for democratic elections. ignoring this history, president trump vigorously campaigned for the vice president to single handedly determine the results of 2020 election. based on the evidence, the court finds it more likely than not that trump tried to obstruct. what was the impact of a federal judge basically corroborated

cheney's citation? >> so what the committee did is that it built different arguments and built building blocks to make a larger point about criminality. and in one of its more unusual rulings, it went to federal court earlier this year and essentially filed what i would call a de facto indictment of trump and eastman in this fight in a court in california. in federal court. about whether they could get certain documents from eastman. and they basically laid out the criminality as if they were laying out an indictment but it was in this civil matter then the judge agreed with them. the judge said it was more likely than not that someone had broken the law, that the law had been broken. and that gave the committee even more. so it wasn't just the committee saying, oh, i think there's criminality here. it allowed them to say a federal judge agrees with or close enough agrees with our

assessment. and they continued to beat the drum more aggressively in public on that. in the media they did. then by the time they get to the hearings over the summer, they are winding these hearings up and as i was saying before, like a criminal trial. and speaking to the public like it's a jury and trying to build these cases like they're criminal cases even though they have no power criminally whatsoever. they can make referrals to the justice department but beyond that, all they can do is try and move public support but they focused the public's attention on criminality and it certainly looks like they focused the justice department on it as well. >> you know, michael steele, they've also turned mitch mcconnell and kevin mccarthy into complicit actors. what comes through loud and clear is that this went on very

much if not in public view with a nod and a wink and the help of at least 19 republican members of congress and i wonder if you look at the committee's work, if you look at the pile and really the final public hearing was the culmination of these three towers of evidence that they sought to build. one, that he knew he lost. it was featured in the very first one. they came back to it at the end. two, that he knew the things he was saying in bill barr's words, bs. that all these conspiracy theories might have been inappropriately been investigated by doj and three, he was well aware of the violence and wanted to be there for it. >> yeah, i think all of that very accurately is laid out by the committee. i think you know to michael's fine reporting, it is very clear from the beginning what the emphasis by the committee would be given the limitations on its power. it had to convince two audiences.

one was the justice department. the other was the american people and at any given moment in time throughout the course of the summer, one or the other was the priority of that particular hearing. whether it was from the beginning when they wanted to bring the american people to this narrative in a way that they would want to sit back at the beginning of summer in their comfy summer chairs with a drink in their land and follow along or more compelling moments where they would bring witnesses out who were in the room where it happened. who had ear on the ground to know what was taking place. to lay out the evidence part as they saw it and gathering it for the justice department. very adeptly done and i think we're going to see as this comes to its conclusion with the final report. if not maybe perhaps one more hearing. who knows. that this committee's work is

not done. and what's going to be important i think for everyone to understand. sort of a thread in michael's reporting that this committee, yeah, we stand down because there will be a change in congress. but we want to lay this thing out in such a way that we don't go away. that the work doesn't get dismissed and disappears. i think that's going to be a very, very important element after the election for the country to understand that yeah, the committee may disappear with the republican majority in january, but that's your choice to make now in november but even if you choose to have this committee go away, its work will go on and that's where the justice department will pick up. that's where we see a lot of this evidence also play itself out in places like georgia and new york. >> and i know this is the point in the program we say that the republican takeover not a forgone conclusion. michael, i want to come back to you with one more piece of

evidence. even in the committee's telling was a turning point. a lot of the public hearings were move, but none were sprung on us. none were dramatically added except the testimony of cassidy hutchison. this reportedly caught a lot of attention and was compelling even to the justice department. but let me show you some of her dramatic testimony. >> so is it your understanding that mr. ornato told the president about weapons at the rally on the morning of january 6th? >> that's what he relayed to me. >> his response was we can march from the capitol from the ellipse. >> something to the effect of take the f-ing mags away. they're not here to hurt me. let them in. let my people in. they can march the capitol after the rally's over. >> he said something to the effect of i'm the f-ing president. take me up to the capitol now.

to which bobby responded, sir, we have to go back to the west wing. the president reached up toward the front of the vehicle to grab at the steering wheel. mr. engel grabbed his arm, said sir, you need to take your hand off the steering wheel. we're going back to the west wing. we're not going to the capitol. mr. trump then used his free hand to lunch towards bobby and i remember pat saying to him something to the effect of the rioters got into the capitol, we need to go down and see the president now and mark looked up and said he doesn't want to do anything, pat. >> now we'll see if the justice department finds evidence that trump committed crimes that the committee believes these two secret service agents lied to it and in an interview on this program, one member of the committee did got rule out if those lies cannot be rectified,

criminal referrals for lying to congress. what do you make of a pile up of corruption and criminality that's also been revealed by the select question's work? >> in one word, stunning. it is stunning to watch this side narrative if you will unfold the way it has. cassidy was not one of those folks to your first point about you know, suddenly we have this hearing with her. you know, i think a lot of the people were banking that everyone would hold the line. everyone's going to hold the line on behalf of donald trump because he is dear leader. but you know, people have a conscious and they have, they see how good men and women can and have been corrupted by all of this. and so they speak out. we saw that with mar-a-lago where someone inside the room said you know what, he's hiding more documents. y'all should look over here. so you know, we have, we have

these moments where people step into that time to their time where they share what they know and now we have revelations about the secret service. the corruption and the corrupting elements of that service to the country by the maga type mindset. i think there's going to be more revealed on this narrative. i think, again, it feeds the underlying story for the doj that completes so many elements of the puzzle that they're trying to put together with respect to criminality and accountability as mike noted earlier. that this is the moment where it all kind of comes together and it has to fit. why? because it's true. it works. it's not one of those things you sort of look at and go, well, that doesn't make any sense. yeah, it all kind of makes sense now. it seems like now i understand how we got from a to b to c to

d. i think that's going to be again, a compelling part of this story that the justice department cannot turn its eyes away from and has been reported in the atlantic and elsewhere. they seemingly are prepared to take that leap of faith that they got the goods and they're ready to put it in front of a grand jury. >> joyce vance, what is your sense of where that process stands, whether anyone like cassidy has taken that step? has she been before a grand jury, mike? >> not sure. >> what would that process be, joyce, and what would it explain why she hasn't if she hasn't? >> so of course we know because we've talked about it a lot that doj operates when it's operating correctly behind this wall so that the public doesn't know what's going on. there are a lot of reasons for that. there are good reasons and they're frustrating for us in this situation. but it's impossible to believe that at this point, doj isn't reaching out to witnesses like

cassidy hutchison. some of those folks are just witnesses. they're people who observe facts who are able to offer testimony but inevitably in a case like this because what mike is describing and the language that liz cheney is using is the language of conspiracy. the language of multiple participants in this obstruction of congress and some of the participants in that conspiracy will be minor and those are the folks you start with. approaching them to see if they have valuable testimony to offer in exchange for a cooperation deal. i thought it was fascinating that in this last hearing the committee returned this theme of what trump knew and what trump's intent was and they really angled out a couple of threats in this and talked about her testimony and mark meadows and that fact he confirmed to her on

one occasion that trump knew he had lost, but meadows words filtered through hutchison saying we are still trying to find a way to pull it off. so the co-conspirators out there the a very interesting one. >> what do you make of the dynamics that's been revealed that unlike what is normal, congress seems to have been more aggressive. they seem to have been on this first and they have surfaced more evidence than we at this moment believe doj has developed as of yet. >> it's tough to understand what was going on at doj that first year because even when doj is conducting its investigation silently, there are things that filter out into the public. there are witnesses who are subpoenaed for documents or testimony. they challenge those subpoenas. that spills out into court and we learn that investigation is underway and that didn't happen

during that first year that merrick garland was in office. all of the appearances are that doj, the lumbering giant sprung to life in late december or january and began to investigate approximately on a timeline with the january 6th committee. and i honestly don't know what to make of that first year. perhaps merrick garland so wanted to preserve the reality that we were a democratic nation. that we were a country that didn't resort to prosecuting former elected officials. that he hoped it wouldn't come to that, but the president -- dare garland to prosecute him. he's engaged in continued misconduct out of office. he's held on to classified comet documents instead of turning them over and asked his attorneys to lie about that to the government and that's before we get to the fact he fomented an insurrection and tried to

interfere with the transfer of power. at some point, all of that criminality accumulates to a point where if you want to preserve the institutions, you've got to prosecute. you've got to have some form of accountability. >> mike, last question. will the committee view its work as incomplete if donald trump isn't charged criminally? >> i think that they've set a high bar for themselves. they've bit off this humongous issue of criminality and the logical end of criminality is a conviction. and i think that they've looked to criminality because they saw that everything else hadn't worked. all these public disclosures about trump's behavior had not moved the republican party. impeaching donald trump had not led to a vote for removal or a vote to stop him from becoming president again and i think that they were pulling for the emergency brake of the criminal justice system because they saw

no other way of stopping him. and they thought that that was potentially one of the only silver you know ways of them coming at this. so in that sense, they set the bar for themselves incredibly high. >> and very, very publicly. thank you so much for starting us off. michael sticks around. when we come back, yet another republican senator forced to reckon with his role in trying to stop the peaceful transfer of power in america. in the lead up to and during the events of january 6th. we'll play what he said to his opponent and his audience as the senate seat looks harder and harder to hold on to. plus, president biden today kicking off the final three week of the midterm season. warning that if republicans get their way with a national abortion ban, no state will be able to protect a woman's right about decisions on her own body. saying the first bill he'll send to a democratically controlled

congress will be legislation to codify roe versus wade. and the great replacement theory by many in the republican party is abhorrent and growing. that and more when we continue after a quick break. don't go anywhere today. after a quick break. don't go anywhere today. ♪ what will you do? ♪ what will you change? ♪ will you make something better? ♪ will you create something entirely new? ♪ our dell technologies advisors provide you with the tools and expertise you need to do incredible things. because we believe there's an innovator in all of us. moderate to severe eczema still disrupts my skin. despite treatment it disrupts my skin with itch. it disrupts my skin with rash. but now, i can disrupt eczema with rinvoq. rinvoq is not a steroid, topical, or injection.

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at inspiresleep.com. i don't think you knew how important it was when you sought to urge the white house that it lost an election to find fake electors to overturn the will of the people. senator lee, that was the most egregious betrayal of our nation's constitution in its

history by a u.s. senator, i believe, and it will be your legacy. >> in the days leading up to january 6th when the votes were going to be open and counted, i had a job to do. there were rumors suggesting some states were considering switching out their slates of electors. if that were true, i would need to know. i did research, made phone calls. the rumors were false. on that basis, i voted to certify the results of the election. >> it's exhausting. senator lee told there. and it's the same scene repeated over and over and over again. just swap out the maga republican actor. again last night, a republican who was demons ra bly sympathetic to the scheme lied saying i was chasing rumors. really? is that how congress works? you hear a rumor and you dive into researching it?

absolute hogwash. it will be up to the people of utah to decide whether mike lee is saying anything remotely associated with the truth. he texted this, quote, if a small handful of states were to have their legislatures appoint alternatives, they could have a plan. it's called a coup. as you heard though, senator lee did eventually vote to certify the election and the coup failed. but the scheme isn't the only thing republicans are being asked about on the stump. the events of january 6th are part of the conversation. here's the exchange from last night's first and only debate between lee and evan mcmullin. >> to keep a if the who has been voted out of office despite the

will of the people, senator lee, it is a betrayal of the american republic. you were there to stand up for our constitution but when the barbarians were at the gate, you were happy to let them in. >> yes, there were people who behaved very badly on that day. i was not one of them. i was one of the people trying to dismantle this situation. trying to stop it from happening. because i believe in this document written by the hands of wise men raised up for that very purpose. >> he's been doing this thing with a pocket constitution. it is not a prop. it is not a prop. senator lee, the constitution is not a prop for you to wave about and then when it's convenient for your pursuit of power to abandon without a fight. >> joining our coverage, former maryland congresswoman, donna edwards. michael, the only thing mike lee sought to dismantle was the will of the people. this is a tough state.

it's amazing how effective mcmullin is in laying out the facts of what like lee and a lot of other republicans did around january 6th. >> well, it's not amazing when you tell the truth and you have the constitution on your side. he's absolutely right. anyone can pull out their pocket constitution and wave. here, you want to see one? i got one right here. you can do this all day long. >> bible, right? >> okay. here we go. here's a pocket constitution, right? this is how they see it. upside down. and so the fact of the matter is when you explaining, you're losing. he was trying to explain away his behavior. mcmullin appropriately and accurately said okay, here are the facts. you were part of the plan. we have the text messages of you actually saying hey, if you go with these false electors, that

could be an effective part of the plan so now you want to throw up your constitution and pretend like you were some champion for you know, american pie and justice and the words on these pages? no. but you're right. voters ultimately have to make this decision. that's what the election boils down to. i get the concerns and gnashing of teeth about the economy and all of that, but at the end of the day, you get this wrong, doesn't matter what the price of gas is. doesn't matter what the inflation rate is. what matters is your ability to adhere to what's in this document. and we have united states senators from the power salute of josh hawley to mike lee undermining this document. so at the end of the day, it's going to take good candidates to stand up. democrat, republican, independent, who stand with the principles of the constitution

and of this founding democracy. no matter how difficult and yes, painful it has been at times. it still matters that we get it right and right now, we're not. and that's my concern going into the next three weeks and that's why what evan mcmullin did last night is so important. you have to frame it the right way. i'm going to lean with the constitution. senator, right now, you're off side with the constitution. >> donna, what's amazing to me is that there's this conventional wisdom that as economic angst which is real and justifiable rises, democrats plight falls. what makes a voter think an autocrat can fix the economy? that's the most economically destabilizing thing on the globe. the world's weakest economies are the strongest autocracies. how do democrats communicate on that? >> well, i think it's really difficult because people sort of

see their day-to-day prospects instead of looking at the long haul but i think democrats have to make that connection between their future economic success and what republicans would have as our system and that the system could potentially fall. mike lee joins a long list of republicans who said the right thing on the evening of january 6th and on the 7th and who have switched gears now. mike lee describing what happened on january 6th as people behaved badly. it's like your kid takes a toy on the, on the playground. this was not just bad behavior. it was insurrectionist behavior. it was violent. there were police officers who were beaten and injured. it threw our complete system into total chaos on january 6th.

potentially could have resulted in a major constitutional crisis in this country and so you know, republicans like mike lee down playing what happened on january 6th because they're trying to smooth over maintaining that republican base really flies in the face of what we need from leaders when it comes to protecting democracy. i think that democrats have the challenge of connecting the dots between what some republicans would have. there were an overthrow of the system. i think we should count on smart voters who can be concerned about democracy and their pocketbooks. >> and they can be separated, michael. you don't have to go back to 2020. if on the midterms, a bunch of republicans refused to accept the result os f the election,

that will be economically destabilizing and if republicans refuse to concede elections if they lose them, that will destabilize markets more than anything else. how do you make that argument? >> look, it is a challenge and i think donna really put her finger on the sweet spot that makes this such a challenge. at this stage. understand where we are. we're three weeks out. we were having this conversation some of us were trying to have eight months ago, then you have a different runway. a different lead up to the conversation while people are going through the angst. going to the president's state of the union. tieing democracy into the economic measure. tieing the economic message into democracy because as you just put it, they are inextricably linked. if you elect a group of people and the other group that lost the election refuse to accept that and want to refute it and

try to overthrow that result, that has a destabling impact on the economy as well. it also will drive what you pay for things and your access to supply chain and all of that. so it's making that connection that this democracy is held together by this document and the economic pieces, the social pieces, the communication, all of that fits on top of that and when you start pulling any one of those out, it all falls. my fear is that we're now caught up in the last throes of an election campaign where that message may get lost. doesn't mean you can't hammer it and you should, but my hope is that the american people, to donna's point, see that i have both my economic future and the future of my country in the balance and with my vote, i want to put them in balance with each other. not out of balance with each other. >> right.

and economies do not flourish when democracies are in peril. >> they don't. >> political instability is the greatest killer of economic prosperity. neither of you can go anywhere today. we have much more to do. president biden today working to keep abortion at the top of mind for voters heading into the midterms which are 21 days away. the president telling democrats if we get out and vote, we can bring back our constitutionally protected rights. we'll talk with white house deputy chief of staff next. h wh deputy chief of staff next super emma just about sleeps in her cape. but when we realized she was battling sensitive skin, we switched to tide hygenic clean free. it's gentle on her skin and out-cleans our old free detergent. tide hygenic clean free. hypoallergenic and safe for sensitive skin. avoiding triggers but can't keep migraines away? qulipta® can help prevent migraines. you can't always prevent what's going on outside... that's why qulipta® helps what's going on inside. qulipta® gets right to work. in a 3-month study, qulipta®

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talk to anyone in san francisco and they'll tell you now is not the time to make our city even more expensive by raising taxes. san francisco has one of the largest city budgets in america. yet when it comes to homelessness and public safety, we're not getting results. what we really need are better policies, more accountability, and safer neighborhoods. vote no on propositions m and o. the last thing we need are higher taxes, especially right now. now is not the time to raise taxes in san francisco. we can't wait any longer. climate change is here. already threatening san francisco's wastewater treatment plant at ocean beach. risking overflow sewage to dump right into the ocean. there's a solid climate plan in place, but changes to the great highway required by prop i would cost san francisco taxpayers $80 million to draft a new climate plan and put the entire west side and ocean beach at risk of contamination. protect our beach, ocean and essential infrastructure. reject prop i

before it's too late.

i believe congress should codify roe once and for all. right now, we're short a handful of votes. if you care about the right to choose, then you've got to vote. that's why in these midterm elections are so critical to elect more democratic senators to the united states senate and more democrats to keep control of the house of representatives. folks, if we do that, here's the promise i make to you and the american people. the first bill i will send to the congress will be to codify roe v. wade. >> president joe biden today promising to make codifying roe v wade his top priority, the first bill he sends if democrats strengthen control of the house and senate in the midterms just

three weeks away. new polling finds the vast majority, 80% of americans, say abortion is important in determining who they will vote for this november, however, it does rank behind economic issues like inflation that americans are looking to when deciding who to vote. joining us now, white house deputy chief of staff. jen, we were just talking, michael steele and donna edwards and i, about this economic argument that doesn't seem to be getting made by too many democrats on the trail. you and i both know in local races what candidates hate the most is when people in washington and new york say hey, here's an idea. i'll go there anyway. economies don't flourish in autocracies and that's where republicans are seeking to take the country. do you see kind of helping candidates pull all this together, the democracy argument and the economic message from the president's standpoint? >> yeah, absolutely. thanks for having me. great to be back with you today. i think the president has been

very clear about this as he has talked about the contrast that exists between his vision and democratic elected officials vision for the path forward and republicans and the extreme maga agenda that all of these elements come together. you heard the president today but you also heard him from the day the decision came through on dobbs. about how extreme that was. rolling back 50 years of women's rights to their own reproductive health. having politicians make decisions about women's rights in this country. he made clear today as he had from the beginning what we all need to do is codify roe. that he certainly tasked the administration with doing everything possible to protect women's rights. he has been doing that and the administration's been doing that. whether it's access to reproductive care now, to travel, protecting privacy, but ultimately, we have to codify roe. that's part of a larger agenda. you hear senator graham talking about a national ban.

you hear republicans talking about rolling back the inflation reduction act, which sole purpose is to help make life easier for the american people by lowering costs like prescription drugs and healthcare. so those are the issues that he really seeing and has set up for clearly from the beginning about what that contrast is and the issues that really affect the american people. you'll hear more from him tomorrow on the economy and he's talking about all those pieces together under this broader contrast you know that we see every day here in the american people here are feeling. >> the numbers of public opinion polling on abortion is just extraordinary. let me put these up for our viewers. this is numbers of americans who believe that women should be able to have an abortion in cases of rape or incest. among democrats, 94%. independents, 88%. among republicans, 76%. many of the state bans being pushed by republicans eliminate all exceptions for life of the mother and the instances of rape

and incest and real world examples of young girls, 10-year-olds, having to cross state lines are so harrowing. when that was in the news immediately following the dobbs decision, it was front and center and we read local coverage of it as well. is there a, is today's speech part of an effort to remind voters of what happened not too long ago with the supreme court? >> well, i think it is certainly an incredibly important issue as you've referenced and as the president's heard as he's traveled across the country. people have talked about this, women and men. it's not just a women's issue as you know. it's not just an issue for one party or another. and so what we believe and what we're seeing with the president's hearing is how critical this is and how it is such a significant example of that contrast. it is not just what needs to happen to codify roe. you look at as i already mentioned, senator graham in a

national ban 16 states that have more extreme bans with no exceptions moving forward. we're talking about in wisconsin and arizona, laws that have been on the books since the 1800s now you know having republican elected officials pushing to have those move forward. on top of the chaos that is existing on whether or not someone can get a prescription for something that has nothing to do with reproductive health, but it's gotten caught up in the confusion that's been created. i think fundamentally, the president knows we have to talk about issues that matter most to the american people. he is really reflecting on what he hears as he travels the country. this is part of a bigger contrast that really ties into what is at stake and that extreme agenda on the republican elected officials they've made abundantly clear and he wants to make sure we continue to talk about those things we believe the american people have a right

to hear about, that they are concerned about their own rights and that really ties into the economic conversation. all these pieces you've noted are interconnected and that's what he's talking about. >> thank you so much for spending time with us on what i'm sure was a busy day at the white house. thank you. when we come back, if kevin mccarthy should become speaker of the house after the midterms, expect him to hand the keys to the congress over to the super duper whacky extremists with marjorie taylor greene right at the head of the pack. that reporting is next. e head ok that reporting is next

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but never since has mccarthy told the truth. but in those instances he did. and his complete and total capitulation to the trump and his own party will have devastating consequences for the country. if in 21 days republican shoes take back control of the house and install him as speaker. in a brand new book called "weapons of mass delusion," marjorie taylor greene tells robert draper that she is the future of the republican party. draper writes this, in greene's view as speaker mccarthy would have little choice but toed a don't greene's a not more aggressive approach toward punishing biden and his fellow democrats for what she sees as policy derelictions. and quote, i think that to be the best speaker of the house and to please the base he will

give me a lot of power and a lot of leeway she predicted in a flat unemotional voice. and if he doesn't, they will be very unhappy about it. i think that is the best way to read it. and that is not in any way a threat, i just think that is reality. back with donna and michael. it is indeed a threat. she is the pipeline to the most violent and extreme elements of the republican party. and giving her any power at all puts you in correct culpability for a all that she ushers in. >> yeah, marjorie taylor greene was kicked off her committee assignments i think just a month after she took her oath of office. so she was on he outside and

the void that nobody wanted to identify with. and today in the conference in the congress, she will be the mainstream. so it reminds me that it is very different from when john boehner and paul ryan were speaker where they had at least a sizable number of members who were reasonable, who were not part of the freedom caucus, and who could work with democrats just because they had to do get some important things done. but this congress coming up is going to be driven by the crazies. it will be driven by the marjorie taylor greenes in the congress. and i think that it signals something very bad for the country if republicans were to take control of the house. i think that it also means that kevin mccarthy will not have any control over that conference. and i've been shocked to think that he would even become speaker. and i still have some lingering doubts about that given the

nature of the potential congress, if he was speaker or minority leader continuing. and so i think that we will see, but marjorie taylor greene, her ethos, her aggressiveness, her dynamic will dominate the upcoming congress. >> michael steele, the other thing that kills economies and democracies is a climate of domestic violent extremism and what is he embodies is the extremism that represents in the view of law enforcement, department of homeland security, a grave domestic security threat. what is going on? is this a beyond a game chicken and let my pick ultimate your favorite star burst flavors. this is pandering to someone who

is dangerous. >> it is, but i think a part of this that is really kind of amazing is they think that ignore the danger. they think that this works out somehow better for them. marjorie taylor greene has already telegraphed that you will be speaker if i say so, effectively is what she's said. he has her at these political rallies behind him. and kevin mccarthy has not learned from the history of three prior republican speaker of the house who have all been thrown out by the republican caucus. stop and think about that, what republicans have done to themselves going back to newt gingrich, john boehner and paul ryan. so mccarthy is now next in line with a base that is prepared to

throw him out should they allow him to be speaker. i agree with donna, still not 100% that that will happen. but kevin hack decided to make his bed and is prepared to lie down with the lice, flees and blood-sucking tick. and whatever befalls him will come from that relationship. and unfortunately for the country, we're going to have to bear the brunt of it. >> have a ordinary. donna, michael, thank you so much for spending time with us. up next for us, republicans big imbraes of the so-called great replacement theory. the so-callt replacement theory ♪♪ after a disaster, you don't just want something new, you want what's yours. that's why tide loads of hope is expanding to provide clean clothes to more people in crisis. with every purchase of tide hygienic clean you can help too. trying to control my asthma felt anything but normal. ♪ ♪

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this great replacement theory was the motivator for the shooting in buffalo. where that shooter had all these great replacement theory writings that jd vance agrees with. >> here is exactly what happens when the media and people like tim ryan accuse me of engaging "the great replacement" theory. i'll tell you what happens. what happens is that my own children, my biracial children get attacked by scum bags online and in person because you are so desperate for political power that you will accuse me, the father of three beautiful biracial babies of engaging in racism. we're sick of it. >> i think i struck a nerve with this guy. >> a nerve was struck indeed. hi again, it is 5:00 in new york. a fiery moment at last night's

debate for the senate race in ohio, a key race in determining whether democrats will be able to hold on to control of the u.s. senate. tim ryan calling out his opponent jd vance's previous comments supporting and amplifying the conspiracy theory that democrats seek to replace white voters through their immigration policies. comments just like this -- >> democrat politicians who have decided that they can't win re-election in 2022 unless they bring in a large number of new voters to replace the of courses that are already here. we have an invasion in this country because vae powerful people get more powerful because of it. it is not bad policy, it is evil and we need to call it that. >> and immigration is evil, they seek to replace you. that was jd vance. i don't know who showed up at the debate. but vance is just one of many in the republican party who are embracing this racist and extremely divisive false

conspiracy theory. at a rally just last week, a rising star marjorie taylor greene who we've been talking about said this, quote, joe biden's 5 million illegal aliens are on the verge of replacing you, replacing your jobs and replacing your kids in school, end quote. viewers of playoff baseball games have recently been subjected to some particularly horrific and reprehensible new advertisements, so racist they are drawing parallels to the willie horton add of 1988. we won't show you the full advertisement, but here is a little bit of what we're talking about. >> you worked hard for your piece of the american dream. and now it is being stolen from you. joe biden and the democrats have erased our southern border. they released a record number of illegal immigrants in to our country. all at your expense. >> there is more where that came from. another even more alarming ad by

the very same group and brainchild airs in pennsylvania, and it shows men with machine guns terrorizing cities and blaming democrats for, quote, a hell of violence, blood shed and death. will bunch writes in the "philadelphia inquirer" that the comparison is not even fair to the wildly horton ad, he says that that spot which attempted to stir up racial panic by misleadingly linking michael dukakis to a black inmate who committed rape and murder after a weekend pass only aired on tv one time because just 34 years ago, even most republicans fund it too crude and every the edge. listening to that 1980 spot and the tone that offended many folks back then seems calm and measured compared to the natural born killers on aside vibe for the 2022 attack ads. today any and all guardrails have been taken down. and who is behind the behind the guardrails ads? well, the new group called citizens for sanity.

the leaders of which have associated with the american first legal foundation. and their president is none other than former trump white house official stephen miller. the brains behind some of the mower horrific and tragic policies are things like the family separation policy at the southern border. and mainstreaming is where we begin the hour with some of our favorite reporters. tim miller, and also joining us charles blow and also frank is back. and tim, i'll start but. jd vance is one thing where i said that trump has said one thing that i agree with, he is pathetic. he is proud when on tucker carlson to be a defender of and advocate for this theory of great replacement. why is he talking about on the

debate stage? >> yeah, no doubt he struck a nerve. and you know, i think that he reacted like that because somewhere deep inside jd vance, he does feel a little bit of shame over the fact that he is advancing these kind of great replacement theories. i think folks who are running theads don't feel that way, but there was a time when he was palling around with his netflix movie. some of these people that mitt romney's confab had friends saying this guy sounds like he might run as a democrat, like a joe manchin democrat. jd vance knows that he is trafficking in racism, he knows that that might have an impact on his family, he see it is because he gets the trolls attacking him, and so rather than being accountable to

himself, rather than to behave as he knows he should behave, he lashes out at tim ryan because he knows he is classic. classic behavior someone who knows that he is guilty. and i think the type of rhetoric that he is trafficking in a reprehensible but also just one of the things that is unfact all because new immigrants can't vote. this is just another important fact about how stupid the conspiracy theory is. if you come across the southern border and even if the democrats did want more people to come across the southern border, it is not as if they could immediately start voting. there is a long process to becoming a citizen in this country. so it is nonsense and bigoted and jd vance knows that. >> charles, these are the final weeks of a very close election. i don't think that jd vance thought that he'd be statistically tied with tim ryan. what do you make of sort of the state of this race and the

arguments being made before voters of ohio? >> well, i think that it is -- i'm still stuck on this great replacement theory thing because i think that it is symptomatic of where the republican party is right now. basically running as a massive backlash to what has occurred in america the last two or three years. everything from, you know, taking out black history in schools, great replacement theory, it is all a massive backlash to what they saw which was a racial solidarity in the weeks and months following the death of george floyd, taking down the statutes which which a lot of people thought was racial. and so that is the framework in which all of this seems to be happening. and i think that it is important

whenever i talk about great replacement theory, there is a simple fact that the country is becoming more nonwhites. that is not racist to say that. i say it all time because it is a fact. there will come a time when white people will be replaced as majority of the people in the country. that is not racist to say that, it is just a fact. the question becomes why are you so upset about that and why are you blaming that on elites or on jewish people or on conspiracy theory. because it is just about birth dates and death rates and yes immigration plays a role in that. white people are not the first people to be replaced in the racial hierarchy of absolute numbers in america. did black people saying this is the worst thing of, we have to start campaigning against immigration? no. if you look at the few results about how black people feel

about immigration, they still believe that it helps the country live up to its ideals. you have to interrogate whether or not this basic racial fact about replacement, why does it make you so upset. do you truly believe some will be good and some will be bad? and there is no real difference regardless of what the racial makeup of the country is. if you really believe in egalitarian until, that is how you will respond. if you believe that the only true america is a majority white america, you will respond in a way of the lot of these people are responding which is in fact the very difference nation of racism. >> and frank, these platforms by tucker carlson and agreed to by jd vance, they have a long tail. and i know from folks who look at right wing social media it

brings pleasure to some of the darkest forces on the internet which are also aligned with a lot of the grievances. just explain all that intersectionality. >> so look, this comes down to one word and it is hate. it is hate. it is hate of the other. and it is being enabled by those in very public leadership positions, whether you are talking about a political debate or you are talking about a television entertainment host, or you are talking about an elected official who keeps spouting this nonsense, it all comes down to the -- appealing to the basis instincts and depravity that humans are capable of and that is hatred leading to violence. we know from fbi data, we know this now, the statistics show that the most lethal, the most

violent form of extremist ideology is that which comes from hate based violent ideology. and there is no sign of it going away. you and i were on the air talking about january of and specifically the increasing likelihood that politics played a role in suppressing any action to act on available intelligence on january 6. today what we're talking about is a political party as a threat, politics as a threat. i don't look through the lens and you know this, of politics. i look through a security lens. and what i see is a real challenge for the intelligence. because they have to assess the threat coming from a political party. and what to do about that, what do about when people vote for a

threat, what do about the airwaves filled with people lying every today and filled with a lying environment. a challenge that we have yet to face, but takes challenge that will take us well into the future because we haven't figured out what do about it yet. >> and let me follow up and say that part of the reason these conversations aren't had everywhere as they should be, republicans are a huge swathe of the country in terms of numbers, is because people get wrapped around the axle. first amendment protects just about all speech. a satisfies freedom of association. but that does not make it false to point out the facts.ssatisfi association. but that does not make it false to point out the facts.atisfies association. but that does not make it false to point out the facts.tisfies association. but that does not make it false to point out the facts.isfies f. but that does not make it false to point out the facts.sfies fr. but that does not make it false to point out the facts.fies fre.

but that does not make it false to point out the facts.ies free. but that does not make it false to point out the facts.es freed. but that does not make it false to point out the facts.s freedo. but that does not make it false to point out the facts. freedom. but that does not make it false to point out the facts. in buffalo, the shooter sought out a black neighborhood. and even tucker carlson talked about it the tree of life synagogue shooting in october of 2018 was conducted allegedly the shooter said all jews must die, he blamed jews for bring an invasion of nonwhite immigrants. that was the caravan lie tout touted by donald trump. and the messages associated with the republican party right now are being amplified and cited by people carrying out acts of extraordinary violence. >> so we have irrefutable evidence. and today you are referring to actually a study that has just come out from the state of new york, the attorney general's office and the governor had committed a study of the buffalo shooting. and what they found is kind of what we already know and now they just put meat on the bones. they have added evidence to it,

which is that that shooter was radical i'ded online and then his message magnified online. he was motivated by that and then others were seemingly motivated because they had immediate access to his live streaming. and so the new york attorney general has listed great viable solutions to this kind of thing adding penalties and criminality to live streaming such a thing, to transmitting images and go toes after such a fatal act. there is real good reading in the study. but it is connected directly to what we just talked about, which is whether your platform is social media or whether your platform is at a debate or whether your platform is at a rally, or offer screen or on the floor of house or senate, if you are using it to incite violence,

we have to take action against that. and some of that can be in the form of civil or criminal penalties or more importantly coming up just voting the threat out. >> yeah, could you fix the internet and it would be like a moon shot, right? i don't know if it would happen in our lifetime, but if you shut down everything bad on the internet, you still wouldn't solve the problem. one of the checks used to be that political party function as referees. and i asked when you call mitch mcconnell and kevin mccarthy and ask them to con denial messages anti-semitic in nature, what do they say? and they wouldn't reveal the conversation but said that they don't condemn the comments but what are we do expect from a man like mitch mcconnell who won't contempt a racist attack against his own wife. the problem and danger is a broken party that won't police

itself around these issues that are aligns with violence. what do you do about that? >> lirp does matter. we're talking about the racial and bigoted stuff, but it is the same thing with the election conspiracies. i was on with joy last night and she brought up in 2004 there were some people on the left who were so upset about that win that they came up with some conspiracy about the voting machines in ohio and some blog post about this. so what happened? it wasn't a bump of people john kerry flags storming the capitol. you know, there wasn't efforts to overturn the election and to kick george w. bush out. the responsible democratic leaders overwhelmingly with maybe one or two exceptions said no, john kerry conceded and we moved on. like you can imagine an

alternate leadership where leaders stoked that conspiracy and anger and it led to something like january 6. this is the same thing when it comes to the anti-semitism. it wasn't that long ago that republican leaders condemned steve king. took them too long, but echlly steve king got ousted from the caucus. and because of his anti-semitic remarks. those same people now have been beaten into submission. and so that allows the stuff to fester and grow. it comes from like kanye west. and even it is just 0.1% of their supporters who don't get the pushback that they might have in a different time and it radical i'ds them, that can lead to these sorts of violent outcomes like we saw in buffalo and january 6. how do you fix that? you fix it with leaders with

courage. but we've going the opposite direction on that in the republican party. >> charles, what is the beginning of the conversation sound like if you get anyone on -- and i always ask democrats this, can you fix it, can you protect the country from domestic extremism without anyone participating from the other party? can democrats hold the country together by themselves? >> no, you can't do that. and the conversation has to start with what we started with in this conversation which is what is your great fear about ap-america that becomes more black, brown, asian. what is your great fear about that.

because that is animating so much of this. that is animating a lot of the racial violence around this, as animating a lot of the voter suppression that we see, animating about how we deal with education. all have the roots in the idea that white power and white culture is fragile and under attack. country as we knew it, the mythology they created around it, is under attack. and until we deal with the root of why they are afraid of that, so afraid that they would violently defend it from happening, then we get nowhere because we're talking about other things as if they are the root when this fact the root is this root. and it is rooted in a kind of white fragility and a browning

of america. >> thank you so much for having this conversation with me all of you. and for being real and for going deep. i'll really grateful. when we come back, why so many americans say democracy is in peril. yet don't see saving it as their top voting priority. brand new reporting on why voters might not be prioritizing what could be an existential let facing our country. that reporting next. plus the dire situation for schools, teaches and kids in ukraine eight months in to russia's war there and what american teacherses are doing to help their ukrainian counterparts. and later, more from our special deadline special report on the mental health emergency facing our country. we'll hear from rosie perez. m r. bipolar depression. it made me feel trapped in a fog. this is art inspired by real stories of bipolar depression.

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maybe the only way he can die... is if i die too. [ screaming ] good news bad news roses and thorns kind of story for you. there is general agreement that our democracy is indeed under threat. there is also a question as to whether or not that feeling, that belief, will move voters enough to protect it. the latest "new york times" college poll shows that 71% of all voters insist democracy is at risk. and a really big number. but only 7% of the same pool of voters identify it as the number one most important issue topping what will decide who they vote for when they go to the polls. joining our conversation, our

"new york times" reporter whose reporting tells the story about how attacks on our democracy and the big lie about the election has infiltrated in to every nook and cranny of american politics. tim and charles are still here. nick, how do you read the poll and what are your questions. >> well, what we saw as you mentioned was a large swathe of the country is concerned about the state of our democracy. but it is not necessarily what is going to move in in november. that was inflation, that was the economy, almost singularly running at the top of voters minds as they weigh who to vote for in the midterms. we saw it an indication of how i guess nonurgent these threats to democracy are that more than a third of independent voters were open to casting a ballot for a candidate who cast doubts about the 2020 election who would be one of those election derns who

are running for secretary of state, for governor, for congress.niers who are running for secretary of state, for governor, for congress. so seeing people open to -- those who had heard of 2,000 mules that spreads false allegations about voting by mail in the 2020 election. so we saw a lot of evidence of voters either being open to conspiracy theories, supporting candidates who had spread conspiracy theories or who had even said outright falsehoods about the 2020 election being stolen, voters being open to them while still saying that democracy was under threat. and what we started to see was what those voters view of threats to democracy kind of matters what party they are from. republicans said things like joe biden or even voting by mail or the mainstream media were the biggest threats to democracy. democrats saw trump and the issues we focus order as we

looked a what the is undermining the democratic processor. so it is becoming politicized and also receiving a bit in urgency for voters across the spectrum. >> and so interesting because most destabilizing thing to an economy is political instability and you see it the world over. but i wonder what you think in terms of sort of a closesing message tying these two things together.sing message tying these two things together.ing message tying these two things together. a country can't flourish when they are being run by auto craps. >> great minds think alike before 26% heard of the 1,000 mules? that is the stupid -- >> so stupid bill barr laughed. >> a quarter of the electorates, yeah, i'm interested in this mock only conspiracy? guess what we are talking last

segment about the lack of leadership. why? because nobody is tamping it down. ted cruz was talking about it even. but i digress. i do think that it is the democrats job not to be mad at voters for not caring enough about democracy or noting with aing wagging their finger. and these guys are extreme. they don't care about fixing the economy. mccarthy saed that they would have a debt limit standoff. and seems like they want to crash the economy more to hurt joe biden if they get in charge. and seems like they want to crash the economy more to hurt joe biden if they get in charge. they couldn't have a plan to fix it. and they are extreme on abortion and electric election deniers. and we can't have a special economy if we can't trust that we'll have a free and fair election in 2024. so i think that it ties together. and we have to prosecute the

case in the final three weeks. >> and ifs republicans say they won't concede if they lose, this will be the most destabilizing thing to the economy in the moment. i'm not ruling out that they do it with that intention or they binge 2,000 mules too many times, but what do you make of the opportunity for democratic candidates to tie these qualities about the today gop that they do not honor and respect any of our democratic traditions? that they would make the economy worse by damaging our democracy. >> i think you are right about that, but i believe that what we're seeing is kind of an extension it of human psychology. the brain cannot deal with constant trauma and so it will diminish it, push it down and you will deal with first what is most urgent, at least what you feel is most urgent. for a lot of people those are can economic issues. you can take it back to how

people dealt with climate change for a very long time. even people who thought that it was a real issue, but they weren't doing all that they could do to stop it or contribute to a decrease in what ways happening, and they weren't making those candidates campaigning on that single issue, that she would vote for them exclusively. and that is the same sort of thing that is happening here. people believe this is a problem, they cannot constantly stay on the edge of thinking that it is you are xwents. and particularly when they can't see how they will pay the bills, or they will going to buy a house and now they can't. or they can't afford to rent because about went up by 40%. that is just a human thing. and democrats have to wrestle with how do you deal with it when people get exhausted by a trauma. we didn't stop, you know -- police didn't stop shooting unarmed people including mostly black people. it is just that people couldn't stay in the trauma and so now we

don't have the same protests and what have you. as soon as roe was overturned, there was incredible energy around that and now we see the energy appears to be stalling. hopefully it is not, hopefully it is just kind of going underground a little bit. but it appears to be stalling in the polling because people cannot stay in the trauma of it. democrats have to figure out what do you do because the trump years taught people that they would exhaust themselves with being outraged all the time and they learned to adjust themselves. >> yeah, it is a more profound point and i'm completely qualified to respond to. but i think that our adaptations to the politics have removed the belief among voters that we have agency. and that is part of the republican playbook. they don't want you to think that you can do anything. they want you to think that the supreme court has had the last word and that voting on roe is

fruitless. they don't want you to think that voting can change anything. and even a lie debunked by trump appointed judges. as an important point. we'll pick it over the next few weeks. and when we come back, our next guest just back from lviv who she met with teachers trying to keep school going for the kids in ukraine. president of the american federation of teachers will be our guest. f teachers will be our guest. ♪ what will you do? ♪ what will you change? ♪ will you make something better? ♪ will you create something entirely new? ♪

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that was a teacher in ukraine talking about the

horrifying and dangerous consequences for ukrainian teachers, consequences that they would face as they continue do their jobs despite russia's brutal war there. american federation of teachers president randy weingarten recently met with teachers to offer support to he had uhe educators. more than 300 schools have been destroyed since the war began.h educators. more than 300 schools have been destroyed since the war began. and you are just back from lviv. tell me about what you saw. >> you know, we have a long history of showing up and showing up for freedom, showing up for democracy. education obviously both here and abroad and the ukrainian union with whom we have in either with since 2014 when i was there for the revolution,

they wanted us to come back to show that they are not abandoned. so we thought that it would be safe. we didn't intend to go during a him intoing. and we and the red liners went together. they focus order mental health and us focused on education. and this is what we saw, the tremendous resilience and kurng of the ukrainian teachers and ukrainian people, they are nation-builders and in the truest sense of the word. and i was just so honored that they were willing to tell their stories in a brutally honest way and show us both the compassion and caring that they have for kids and wanting to make sure that they win this war of freedom. and against russia. and constantly focused on how are the kids, but you are just

watching their resiliency. and their quiet courage as they are telling these just remarkable shattering stories of what russia -- what russian brutality has been towards civilians. >> i mean, one of the things that we've learned from our friend, formeradviser to president zelenskyy, that lot of schools that didn't have bomb shelters didn't reopen. so even the best case scenarios, because there was a lot of moving around, and on a much smaller scale with covid, we had some of that displacement in this country, and i wonder what your concerns are about the long term impacts about this generation of kids. >> there is a long term impact for being at war which is, you know, just a different kind of trauma than the long term impact here. so let me talk there for a second and here for a second.

i don't want to -- >> no, no, there is no equivalence. i was thinking that kids who have been through a traumatic events, that is so much bigger. >> yeah, they needed -- i mean, this is the irony. remote education actually helped reconnect people. like we talked to a teacher, ukrainian teacher in poland, who said that she has kids all across the world. and every week she makes sure that she checks in with those kids. so that relationship connection, that relationship building is absolutely key. figuring out how one hearing the trauma, figuring out how kids feel safe with someone is absolutely key, which is what the teachers are saying over and over and over again. but what they are doing in ukraine is -- for example 600 of the 1100 schools in lviv are open. and so -- last week was a different situation because of the bombs.

but what is happening is everybody is going for a bit in school to recreate the relationships. they are important and the dids praised teachers with whom we've met are trying to either i can't the in-person experiences as well as online experiences. but the trauma, the long term emotional trauma, will be a very important issue to deal with just like in this country we have to rebuild relationships. the most -- the most important thing we can do to help kids learn is to recreate a confidence so when we saw even this september kids looking down and instead of looking up, once you start getting kids looking up, engaging with each other as opposed to looking as their social media account, you can start to rebuild relationships and that is what they are trying to do, that is why they are trying to either i can't the

normal city that they have created like in places like are a lviv and the bombing is not just disruptive, but it is evil because they are breaking that normalcy that they are trying to create. >> would you like to see partnerships in every school community? >> yes. >> because how do we build that? there is such a sense, as you said, they are nation birlds, they are brave and heros. how do we expect the every level? >> what is interesting is that we -- that the ukrainian union, for all its representatives from all over the country including occupied areas that were able to get out to be at this meeting in lviv, and we asked them that question. and eight months ago they would have said no, we're in survival mode. but know they really want that. so we'll create some kind of school to school classroom to

classroom relationship. they want to make sure that they are part of the world. and they want to win their freedom. and what we fight for to keep a democracy, they are fighting every day to win a war for self-determination. >> keep us posted. a lot of our viewers want to know how can we help and this connection is the least we can do. >> it would be great for -- they kept saying thank you for being here. we don't want to be abandoned. >> yeah, do nts forget us. >> don't forget us. >> thank you so much for going and talking about it. thank you so much. and you can find out more about the ukrainian children's action project at ukrainecap.org. ahead for us, more from the special report as we continue

in-depth look at the mental health emergency facing millions of americans. we'll hear from my dear friend rosie perez about her own struggles. e perez about her own struggles. wait, i don't do tai chi. i don't do most of the things you see in medicare health insurance commercials. cut! all the ads look the same because the insurance companies all see us the same. humana is different. they get to know you and listen to what you need. they have all-in-one humana medicare advantage plans with medical and prescription drug coverage.

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regardless of that ability to pay. and as health and human services secretary put it, that is the kind of care that until now has only been available to some, quote, depending on your income and zip code, you could be totally out of luck. but with this, that is going to start to change. the urgent need for mental health care and services in america is something that we explore in our new series deadline special report and something that i had the privilege of speaking about with my dear friend actor rosie perez who after suffering a childhood of emotional and physical abuse and trauma realized that she could not outrun her ptsd. since then, she has made mental wellness and talking about it her mission. here is a little bit of our conversation. >> i have strived so hard to break the cycle of the trauma, you know, and what the book actually helped me realize is it

is always going to be there. but my psychiatrist, dr. catherine, told me when i first met you, you are just treading water in the atlantic ocean. and then i saw you transition into a river. and then a lake. and then a pond. and then i watched you build a bridge over your trauma. and it is still there. but now it is just a puddle. so let's maintain that. let's work really hard to maintain that. because it is never going to go away. but now you know how to manage it. that is what it is all about. managing your mental your menta issues. >> i want to ask you what you say to people who might be watching who are still in the atlantic ocean. >> if you're still swimming in

the atlantic ocean, ask yourself how tired you are of treading water. >> i was there. just watching it is hard and emotional. my entire conversation with rosie is streaming on peacock. it was a call for anyone and everyone who's survived and struggled and people who haven't but know people who have and rosie's message was so powerful. joining us now, dr. kavita patel. dr. patel, i did this whole series, all these interviews, and it's still hard to talk about. it was hard to talk about with rachel last night and with joy and just watching it again. what is it that makes these conversations and this issue still so difficult to sort of shine a light on? >> nicolle, i actually have seen that clip three times and it still kind of resurrects something every single time, and

it's because it's striking a chord with all of us, men, women, children alike are all feeling, no matter who you are, we're all treading water. and it's not just covid, not just worrying about how to pay for milk, not just wondering what you're going to be growing up, it's all of the above. i think her words and giving air to the words the a woman, a woman of color, it gives so many of us a chance to breathe. but then we have to move on to the next thing that kind of rips away at our vulnerability. it's a raw exposed nerve, and it reminds me in medicine, nicolle, the most common -- people don't make appointments with me and say, i'm having mental health issues. they come in because they're losing their hair, their periods are off, or the relationships are suffering. and then it takes time to dig in deep and find out that they're treading water. secretary besarah is right.

you may never have a solution for this. that's something we have to solve. and i'm glad they're taking steps but those of us on the front lines are seeing it raw and exposed every day. >> you are all paying a price as well in terms of, you know, perhaps unprecedented challenge in terms of burnout and watching so many people struggle either with physical illnesses or mental health illnesses. what is the first step, you know, for a peer or colleague that's struggling or a patient? >> yeah, so i called -- i'm fortunate. i had a lot of peers and colleagues who are mental health professionals, so i can get a hold of them. it's hard for most people to get a hold of anybody. it can take weeks and months to get an appointment. one of the things they remind me is to just focus on articulating some of these things. just like rosie said, she talked about her heart beating.

she didn't connect the physical symptoms. the body doesn't stop at the neck and what's happening in your brain is just like diabetes, you have not enough insulin, not enough chemicals to kind of take up your sugar. that's exactly what's happening in your brain. tough start by giving it a name and acknowledging it, and while you're waiting for professional help, being kind to each other. we need to do a lot more of what you and randy were talking about as adults as well, giving each other space to try to find solutions. and advocating for policy solutions. we can't wait any longer. there are people in crisis now. >> dr. kavita patel, our resident expert on everything. thank you so much for spending time on this. very near and dear to my heart. my entire conversation with rosie perez and all four episodes of our new series are streaming right now on peacock. take a watch. let me know what you think. we're going to sneak in a quick break, but we will be right back.

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so, yesterday was the first day of early voting in georgia. voters there showed up in record numbers. more than 130,000 voters showed up in person to cast their ballots in some of the most watched election contests of this election cycle. that is nearly double just over 70,000 votes cast on the first day of early voting nt last midterm elections held in 2018 and almost as high as the 136,000 cast in the 2020 presidential election. early voting will continue through november 4th. another break for us. we'll be right back. ight back. ♪ what will you change? ♪ will you make something better? ♪ will you create something entirely new? ♪ our dell technologies advisors provide you with the tools and expertise you need to do incredible things. because we believe there's an innovator in all of us.

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