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long-running saga of the ex-president's legal woes, with donald trump taking the stand in a civil lawsuit today and facing the prospect in taking the stand in the congressional investigation into january 6th, as well. and his private club and residence, donald trump sat for a sworn deposition in the defamation lawsuit brought by e.g. carol, who has accused donald trump of rape. the associated press reports this, the deposition will give her lawyers a chance to interrogate trump about the assault allegations, as well as statements he made in 2019, when she told her story publicly for the very first time. trump says the rape allegation is "a hoax and a lie." his legal team has worked for years to make this day never come, to delay the deposition that was filed when he was still president. and the january 6th select committee is set to ask for the same thing, trump's testimony as

soon as today. the vice chair liz cheney said last night the panel's decision to issue a subpoena to donald trump is part and parcel of the committee's central mission. >> we all felt that our obligation is to seek his testimony, that the american people deserve to hear directly from him, that it has to be under oath, that he has to be held accountable. so we'll be issuing the subpoena shortly, both for his testimony under oath as well as for documents. >> that subpoena will come at the tail end of months of this congressional investigation. the committee has already interviewed more than 1,000 witnesses, including close trump aides, cabinet officials and political allies who worked closely, intimately involved in donald trump's campaign to overturn the 2020 election. it all comes after the committee has already laid out over the course of nine hearings that

"all roads lead to donald trump" as committee member pete aguilar said on this broadcast. the committee has shown that the big lie was just that, a lie. that the campaign to overturn the election was likely a violation of law, but they did it any way. and on january 6th, donald trump knew full well, in gross detail, that the members of the crowd he had invited and assembled on the ellipse were armed and dangerous. and that he sent them to the capitol and expressed his wish to join them any way. >> just a great honor to have this kind of crowd and to be before you and hundreds of thousands of american patriots who are committed to the honesty of our elections and the integrity of our glorious republic. >> so is it your understanding that mr. ornado told the president about weapons at the rally on january 6th.

>> that's what he related to me. >> we're going to walk down to the capitol. i would love it if they could be allowed to come up here with us. is that possible? can you just let them come up, please? >> his response was to say they could march from the capitol from the ellipse. >> something to the effect, they're not here to hurt me, let my people in. they can march to the capitol after the rally is over. >> we fight like hell. if you don't fight like hell, you're not going to have a country. going to have a country. >> our country has had enough. we will not take it any more. and that's what this is all about. >> the ex-president on the stand and taking the stand is where we start today.

my panel joins me now. tim o'brian, on that note, we start with you. >> well, donald trump is a lawyer's worst nightmare under oath, because he won't say on the script. he's a serial fabulist. he exaggerates. he lies with reckless abandon, and all those things are a recipe normally for a disaster in a deposition, which is typically why his attorneys don't want to put him in front of other lawyers. it's why they don't want him to testify under oath, and it's why it's dangerous when he gets out into the wild on his own. he may recognize the stakes in

this recent round of depositions that he's had to endure, because he's in a different place now than he was 10, 15, 20 years ago. but he can't really avoid the fact that the reason he's being time bombed in a deposition is because of exactly who he is. and that can't really be coached out of him by his attorneys. when we deposed him, we had bank documents and tax records that we were able to push across the table to him. when he lied about something from his past, then -- and we caught him in dozens of lies during our deposition. i think robbie kaplan, the lead attorney in e.g. carol's case is a savvy lawyer. he's not going to be sitting across the table with people who are going to be differential to him. he's tried to use the shield of the presidency to delay this moment and protect himself from it.

if he had nothing to hide, he wouldn't be going to those extremes. now he's going to be under the harsh glare of a deposition, and there's a very strong chance it won't go well for him. >> harry litman, i remember when we were covering and analyzing the mueller investigation. president trump tweeting with some frequent -- he did it regularly. he would love to sit down with robert mueller and answer questions. i remember hearing at the time from folks like chris christie and rudy giuliani that they would lay their body down on the train tracks before they would sit down and let trump lie, perjure himself. what is the legal tight rope they are walking today in this deposition? >> it is what tim said, you have to answer questions of all sorts by the way, as tim points out. a deposition, you can ask anything as long as it can lead

to relevant evidence. for example, other accusations against trump. that's his normal tight rope. i think the tight rope is cut already. he's really put himself into a corner, because he came out just a week ago and reiterated every nasty, churlish thing he had said about her before. now he's lost the kind of recourse of saying, well, i'm not sure, i don't recall, et cetera. you don't recall, mr. trump? a week ago you seemed to recall. i think he's really forced into a -- what is at best, a he said/she said. if they have any evidence, they have asked for his dna. if she has evidence that he is lying, it will go to a jury. remember what happened to alex jones. that was a defamation case. a jury that disbelieves him can hammer him. unlike the political posturing that he's just repeated in

different settings before, here we're talking about a real civil suit with a real possible price tag at the end. and he's really left himself very little out. so he's in a tight spot. >> harry, if a jury hears this case, could you introduce into evidence his bragging about the act under scrutiny. i grab them in the you know what, when you're famous, they let you know. >> that will be a ruling for judge kaplan, no relation, that's the trial if it goes forward. and by the way, it's more likely to go forward now because there's this whole skirmish about does the white house represent him? but now that he's reupped and said the same thing, they will sue again. could you put that in? a judge would make that in a judge's discretion, and this judge has lost patience with trump when he ordered trump to sit for this deposition today. he said you've delayed

unconshonably, et cetera. i think the odds are decent. same thing with other kinds of assaults and accusations. it could be used to prove his intent here. so this -- if and when it goes to trial, very precarious. he would normally settle, as his last recourse here, but she says i will never settle with him. this is -- it might be a year from now, but it is a very tight spot. >> so this very tight spot, luke, is exactly where the january 6th select committee would like to place a twice impeached ex-president named donald trump. talk about what you understand to be the timeline for this subpoena. >> i'm hearing he will probably come tomorrow now. the committee's lawyers have been working ever since that vote to put together and air-tight subpoena. some of the things that involves, include exactly what the request will be to donald trump. exactly what kind of documents

they want from him, specific communications, with specific individuals. as you know, some of the subpoenas contain similar information. but many of them are different in this investigation. since donald trump is so central to the investigation, they're taking extra time and extra precaution to make sure they have the request just so. they're also talking about when exactly to ask him to come in, and another complication is finding out which is the right lawyer to serve the subpoena to. donald trump has so many legal -- so many lawyers on different legal teams. many disagree with each other. some of them i understand do not want to take the subpoena. and so they're trying to figure out who the right person is to serve with this subpoena. but i think it will come tomorrow. but that is still tentative. >> luke, there is a piece of reporting how the committee has

used the criminal conduct of the twice impeached ex-president as evidence that they have put into the public conversation, really nearly daily. liz cheney was at it again yesterday, talking about the illegality in the context of the electoral count act. let me play that for you. >> i want to be very clear. sometimes when we talk about reforms to the electoral count act, the former president suggests that those reforms are only needed because what he did was not illegal. and i want to make clear what he did under the previous -- the current electoral count act was unconstitutional, was illegal under the current electoral count act. it will be illegal under our reforms, as well. >> so if liz cheney were speaking for the department of justice, she's made cheer that trump is a target of her criminal probe. she's not. she's a member of congress, and the probe is not criminal in an

official manner. but her language about criminality and donald trump couldn't be clearer. is this another crime they're considering referring to doj, violating the electoral count act? >> yeah, i think so. there's a team of four lawyers on the committee, liz cheney, zoe lofgren, jamie raskin and adam schiff who have this assignment to, with the committee staff, many who are former federal prosecutors, including two who are u.s. attorneys, who are going through and deciding what a criminal referral would look like, exactly which crimes and counts would be laid out in a criminal referral. of course, it's a suggestion, it's not a -- it carries no power of law with it. but they do view each of their hearings as laying out more evidence of criminality, and in different ways. we heard about witness

intimidation. we heard about obstructing official proceeding of congress and about conspiracy to defraud the united states. just today, about an hour ago, judge carter in california ordered more emails released from john eastman, saying that they contained more evidence of criminality. so the committee is now getting these even more evidence of criminality in the judge's view, as we speak. so yeah, i think they are -- it is -- it is full speed ahead trying to build the case that hopefully the justice department will embrace in the committee's view about trump's crimes related to january 6th. >> harry litman, there are so many. let me focus on the one luke just mentioned. this is judge carter, just to remind our viewers. judge carter is the one who, in what was essentially an indictment of john eastman, filed in federal court, a judge agreed that it was more likely than not that donald trump and

john eastman committed felonies in his ruling. let me read from the ruling that came down an hour ago. r ago. >> does this force the justice department's hands to investigate trump as part of the conspiracy? >> investigate, yes. indict, no. but they were already doing this. so a couple of charges that have been on the table, one is defraud the united states, one is obstruction. they both come from these sorts of schemes where he's just trying to hoodwink or lie his way, you know, to the presidency.

what the evidence that you put out in the beginning, though, nicole, points towards the brass ring here that the committee will have to decide, do they refer him for seditious conspiracy? because once you know about the violence, and you encourage the violence, now you're in this most serious statutory scheme where you're trying to promote insurrection. that's the big conspiracy. any charge against trump, whether it's defraud the united states or obstruction will be part of a conspiracy he would have acted with others. and just generally, this is more or less a political decision by the committee, the department doesn't need their help to decide what charms are appropriate. and already surely these three and potentially a couple others are in play. the big question, though, would a department of justice charge a former president with seditious

conspiracy, the most serious charge that's been brought to date in all of the january 6th cases. >> to which, some of the members of the proud boys have pled guilty. so we now have convicted participants in seditious -- people who are guilty of seditious conspiracy. i want to -- i take your point, harry, that it's political and the justice department doesn't need them. but there is a feeling that they might have benefited, if that's the right word, from the fire lit under them by the airing of the mountain of witness testimony and evidence that the committee has generated. i just -- we were talking about what crimes the committee has been able to prove. here's some of the evidence they laid out. >> specifically raised the dominion voting machines, which i found to be among the most disturbing allegations, disturbing in the sense that i saw zero basis for the allegations. i told them that it was -- it was crazy stuff and they were

wasting their time on that. and it was a grave, grave disservice to the country. >> we have a company that's very suspect. its name is dominion. with the turn of a dial, or the change of a chip, you can press a button for trump and the vote goes to biden. what kind of a system is this? >> he definite hi talked about the county again. that was sort of done at that point, because the hand recount had been done in all of that. but this is an example of what people are telling you and what's being filed in these court filings that are just not supported by the evidence. and this is the problem. the problem that people keep telling you these things and they turn out to not be true. >> in addition, there is the highly troubling matter of dominion voting systems. in one michigan county alone, 6,000 votes were switched from

trump to biden, and the same systems are used in the majority of states in our country. >> i went into this and would, you know, tell them how crazy some of these allegations were and how ridiculous some of them were. i'm talking about things like, you know, more votes, more absentee votes were cast in pennsylvania than there were absentee ballots requested. stuff like that was easy to blow up. there was never -- there was never an indication of interest in what the actual facts were. >> there were more votes than there were voters. think of that. you had more votes than you had voters. that's an easy one to figure. and it's by the thousands. >> then he raised the big vote dump, as he called it, in detroit.

he said people saw boxes coming into the counting station at all hours of the morning. i said mr. president, there are 630 precincts in detroit and elsewhere in the state. they centralize the counting process. they're moved to counting stations, so the normal process would involve boxes coming in at all different hours. >> this is michigan. at 6:31 in the morning, a vote dump of 149,772 votes came in, unexpectedly. >> with regard to georgia, we looked at the tape, interviewed the witnesses. there is no suitcase the president kept fixating on this suitcase that had fraudulent ballots. i said, no, sir, there is no suitcase. you can watch that video over and over, there is no suitcase.

there is a wheeled bin where they carry the ballots. that's just how they move ballots around the facility. there's nothing suspicious about that at all. >> election officials pulled boxes, democrats, and suitcases of ballots out from under a table, totally fraudulent. >> donald trump had the motive to lie and lead a seditious conspiracy to overthrow the government. donald trump had the intent to lie. we saw three minute there is of sworn testimony by his cabinet officials, testifying to what they told donald trump before he made those statements, and he carried out the crimes that he's been accused of. how do you not charge him? >> i think that's a political question now, nicole, that's the only thing that's halting the wheels of justice from moving forward right now. i don't think there's an evidentiary you are shoe.

bloomberg news reported today that in the mar-a-lago case, that there's clear -- that the justice department believes in that case that there's clear evidence of obstruction of justice. what they're uncertain about now is whether or not to indict him. i think merrick garland has to be looking at this mass of evidence that's come out of the january 6th committee and, and, and there is -- i think there is to room for doubt any more that he intended to overturn the election and interfere with a government process as part of a seditious conspiracy. it's a matter of the fallout from indicting him would be. i think -- i think in a dangerous and difficult time like we are in now, the standard -- the rule of law is what keeps people's minds clear. that's what keeps our institutions moving forward. one hopes that merrick garland ultimately is going to make the call here that is firmly grounded in the law, and indict

donald trump and his co-conspirators for the crimes they have committed. there will undoubtedly be political fallout from that. we are in a dangerously political time. but i don't think the politics of it should -- should guide entirely what merrick garland does. it damages the constitution and undermines the rule of law and creates an aura around the presidency of, of, of imperialism. i don't think that's what the constitution or the country is about. and i think it's up to the doj and this specific case to follow the lead that other jurisdictions have pursued to make sure he's held accountable. >> thank you all so much for starting us off today. when we come back, one debate is

all val demings needed to make her case to florida voters last night. her and marco rubio clashed on gun violence and abortion rights. she's our next guest. plus, are democrats doing enough to keep abortion on top of voter's minds? has the country reached a limit on what it believes we can do to prevent gun violence? there's so many issues so important to voters this year. we'll talk about the messaging and what can be done in the final three weeks. one voice who has spoken out on all these topics is jasmine crockett. she'll join us coming up. later in the program, the wheels of justice may move slowly, but they're moving. the ex-president's attempts to subvert justice are starting to catch up with him. we'll tell you about that when "deadline: white house" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere today. don't go anywhere today. nu items

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of course, the senator who has never run anything at all but his mouth. >> she's never passed a single bill. >> i think there was a time when you did not lie in order to win. i don't know what happened to you. >> she didn't just put her name on it, she voted for the crazy people's budget, a socialist budget. >> you're repeating yourself. we've seen this show before, socialist, socialist, crazy,

silly. >> some spirited moments from last night's first and only debate between marco rubio and the person looking to take a seat from him, val demings. florida voters will make that choice. and if any of them are basing their vote on gun safety measures, it will likely be on their minds when they go to vote. a moment to remember. >> you've done nothing, nothing to help address gun violence and get dangerous weapons out of the hands of dangerous people. >> the truth of the matter is, at the end of the day, americans have a second amendment right to protect themselves. and these killers that are out there, if they're as intent on killing as they are, they have found multiple ways to get ahold of weapons. >> how long will you watch people being gunned down in first grade, third ground, high

school, college, church, a mall, a nightclub, and do nothing? >> joining us now, congresswoman and former orlando police chief, florida democratic nominee for the senate, val demings. thank you for being here with us. >> great to be with you, nicole. >> florida is a tough state. i worked in florida politics. tell me what your plan is for the final three weeks. >> well, nicole, look, we have been traveling the state from the panhandle down to the keys, and i'm doing what i did as a police chief. i'm not picking and choosing winners and losers based on their ability to pay to play or just picking and choosing the people that i want to talk with. just people who look like me or think like me, or believe in the same things that i do. i'm talking to all voters. i'm talking to voters in north florida, where i was born and raised. i'm talking to voters in central florida where i currently live and spending a considerable amount of time in south florida.

what i'm finding out on the campaign trail is voters are tired of hearing one thing but then watching their politicians do another. i always remind the voters, don't just listen to what marco rubio says, like when he met with the parkland survivors and families and students that were terrorized that day. watch what marco rubio does. and i believe we are taking this fight to the voters in florida, and showing them exactly who marco rubio is. and i do believe, nicole, while it's never easy, at the end of the day, i will have the votes i need to be florida's next senator. >> congresswoman, disinformation is a problem in our politics from coast to coast. but i understand in florida, it's almost on accelerant, that a spanish language television and radio, and i think there are five or six media markets statewide, that disinformation

spreads almost faster than it can be beaten down with the truth. you heard marco rubio injecting some of his favorite words about you there. how do you combat those claims, which are especially charged in florida about socialism and communism? >> you know, i had to ask the senator last night how gullible does he think florida voters are to believe a 27-year law enforcement officer, a former police chief who had a reputation of being pretty tough on crime, wants to defund the police, is a socialist, a marxist, or whatever other buzz words he has. but we spent, as i said, a considerable amount of time in south florida, talking to all communities. we have over 100 surrogates, latino surrogates on the ground to make sure that the voters are informed. so when they go to the polls, they can be informed voters. but nicole, it's one thing when people have the wrong information, and spreading the wrong information, when our

leaders start doing that, like marco rubio, we have to cut it off, call it what it is, and make sure that he understands that we are not going to accept alternative facts. because alternative facts are lies. >> the republican position is viewed as extremist, too extreme even for republican voters in kansas, for example. he seemed to be calling you extreme on abortion. how is that issue playing in florida? >> well, you know, nicole, as i travel the state, we always talk about the cost of goods and services, we talk about the cost of gas at the pumps and the lack of affordable housing. but in most conversations before they're over, the voters will bring up a woman's right to choose. the overwhelming majority of people in the state of florida believe that a woman should have that decision, should be able to make that decision that it's her right to privacy, her personal choice. they believe that it's not okay

for a 10-year-old girl to be raped or the victim of incest, and have to carry the seed of her rapist. and marco rubio has -- should have made clear because he said it so many times, that he wants a national ban with no exceptions. that he wants, as the senator, wants to be able to make that very personal, private decision and treat women like second class citizens. it is a tough issue in florida. and we're going to make sure again that the voters are informed. >> congresswoman, we've been talking this week about how autocratic countries cannot have economies that flourish. nowhere would the voters understand that message more clearly than in florida, where many, especially in south florida, many citizens have fled or they're first generation americans whose parents and grandparents fled countries where their economies did not flourish. is the economic message able to

be tied that a healthy democracy guarantees a healthy economy? >> i spent quite a bit of time talking about that. we go through the agenda, the cost of health care, the cost of goods and services, protecting social security and medicare, public education, the right to vote. but what i try to drive home with the voters is, unless we protect the right to vote, unless we protect our democracy, uphold the rule of law, then the things on our agenda, they will not have an opportunity to flourish. we're only able to enjoy the great benefits of living in the greatest country in the world because of our system of government. and so it is the foundation on which we stand and build a great nation. so yes, as we go through the list, driving home to the voters that all of these things rest on the form of government that we have and we have to do everything within our power to

protect that. and you're right, the voters if south florida clearly understand that because of the countries in which they come from. >> congresswoman and senate nominee val demings, i know it's a really busy point in the election. thank you for making some time to talk to us. we're really grateful. and good luck. >> thank you. when we come back, questions about the possibility that in some places democrats risk losing some momentum heading into november's elections. but that's not the whole story. there's plenty of time to turn around momentum. our political panel will weigh in on that, on messaging needed to get democrats out on top. don't go anywhere. whe. what will you do? ♪ what will you change? ♪ will you make something better? ♪ will you create something entirely new? ♪

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right now, we are walking away so often from the real issues that people care about. abortion is an economic issue. it's been reduced to this idea of a culture war, but for women in georgia, this is very much a question of whether or not they're going to end up in poverty in the next five years, because women forced to carry unwanted pregnancies end up -- they're four times more likely to be impoverished in five years. this is an economic issue, and it's been reduced to this culture conversation. for women, you can't be forced to carry an unwanted pregnancy.

so it's important for us to have these conversations. we don't have the luxury of reduing it or separating it out. >> that's stacey abrams, warning about the midterm messaging mistakes some candidates might be making. it comes with a new democratic push to bring the republican fight to strip abortion rights away back to the fore of voter's minds. yesterday, joe biden promised to codify abortion rights, but the polls taken right now suggest it's not the number one driver. the texas tribune is reporting this --

>> for a reality check, let's bring in democratic nominee for congress, jasmine crockett. and former republican congressman david jolly. what do you think is going on out there? >> oh, my gosh. it's funny -- >> first, it's so nice to have you here. >> yes. >> we covered you in exile in d.c. now you're right here. >> yes, absolutely. just so you know, people in texas, they remember that very first time i interviewed with you. they tell me about that on the campaign trail. but i was campaigning for beto this past weekend. i said we need to stop allowing the republicans to take the narrative that they are the party of law and order, and they are going to keep us safe, because people are saying that they feel unsafe right now, right? they're saying crime is up. but when you look at who controls the crime that we're

concerned about, it's really those more so on the local level, it's not on the federal level. who gave everybody guns? was it the democrats or the republicans? so if you're concerned about that increase, we can directly tie that to the terrible policies that have come from say, a governor abbott. so i think that what we need to do is make sure that people understand that yes, we're facing inflation, but inflation isn't limited to the united states. this is something that is going on in the entire world. it was not caused by us, it was caused by the pandemic. this wasn't some failed economic issue, but it was this once-in-a-lifetime pandemic which we had supply chain issues and so many other issues. so the deal is, who could have made sure we didn't feel it so bad? it would have been better if we didn't have trump at the time. but trump did not heed the warnings. he made sure we weren't playing big brother in this world to where we knew what was going on. so people need to go ahead and start telling the truth. don't let them just say we're

the best on immigration because we're bussing people somewhere. >> what's amazing is we both spent time in republican politics. you never have the issues on your side, so you rely on the politics. so that's what -- i don't know if you call it skill, but their ability to lean on that. but you're right. and the economic problems are only made worse by political instability. if the republicans stand for one thing right now, it's for weakening our democracy. how do you tie that togethersome >> absolutely. the thing about democracy, i don't think the average voter understands that. i think what they feel is, gas prices are high. i can't afford child care. they operate based on what they can feel. i think we get caught up in what we understand. we understand that you're having problems because of our democracy and where we are, and we're playing games. especially with abbott playing

games at the border to where the cost of our food is going up, or the fact that they're playing games with immigration right now, as well. i mean, who is working the farms to make sure that we can have the food that we need? well, we have terrible immigration things going on with crazy governors, such as in florida and texas, and it's causing us problems. but it's hard to make that sell when somebody has five minutes to listen to you. so i think we need to start spinning like they do, because at least we have the truth on our side. >> texas had the first vigil ante law that kicked off the national conversation. how does that play? >> everybody, republicans, suburban moms are saying wait a minute, i've got daughters that are in school. there are women that are making decisions about where they send their daughters to school, which we obviously have u.t., we have

texas a&m. we know there's always been a rape culture in our colleges. but they're concerned what happens if my daughter goes to school and gets raped in a state like texas? what is going to happen to my daughter? no mother wants to think that way, but these are the decisions that they're having to make. so when states -- >> people say that to you? >> oh, yes, oh, yes. i've had multiple moms say that. that wasn't anything that i thought about because i don't have kids. but that makes good sense. when i was in the valley, we had a prosecutor talking to us. you know, there's a lot of cultural differences that exist, because we all come from different places. >> where is the valley? >> it's right there at the border, where they want to build the wall, right? which just to be clear, those in mcallen, texas are not fans of that idea. and so she was talking about the number of cases that she handled of incest, grandfathers,

fathers, raping these little girls. even as a prosecutor who was there to protect those little girls, that little girl doesn't care about a conviction. but if she is impregnated, what do you tell that child? and you're supposed to be her champion? and so these failed policies, you know, even our governor right now, she brought it up, she said abbott said he was going to get rid of rape, he was going to eliminate rape. not going to happen, right? but what is going to happen, we have the numbers to show, victim also be revictimized by the very people that were entrusted to protect them, and we're going to have these pundits playing games, and acting as if people are pawns. instead of recognizing they're being affected by the failed policies. >> you are a very successful politician in your own right. what is your advice for democrats in the closing weeks? >> look, i would suggest that every election comes down to the

contrast between the candidates, the candidat contrast between t parties. this one will. i think everything in the last six years leads to a very powerful contrast. and that is, today's republican party is fighting to cling to power. today's democratic power is fighting for you, the voters. consider the republicans through election laws, or through violence on january 6th, their main mission is to cling to power. the democrats have demonstrated in the last six years they are there to fight for the individual. so what does that mean? democrats are fighting to allow you to vote and have your vote be counted and allow your vote to be meaningful in a fair election system. the democrats are fighting to balance bodily autonomy and reproductive rights with the hard question of life. the democrats are fighting every single day to keep your kids in

school safer from gun violence. republicans are turning their head to it. democrats are fighting for a fair economy that lifts everybody. the democrats are fighting to show respect to migrants wanting to pursue the american dream and contribute to the american economy. the democrats are fighting for the dignity of every american hike in the state of florida where they have told elementary school teachers you're not allowed to acknowledge your own sexual orientation. today's republican party is fighting for their own power. today's democratic party is fighting for you, the voter and the individual rights that should be protected in 2022 but is not under republican rule. >> i reached for my pen to write that down, but if you are on a campaign, we'll take that clip out. no one is going anywhere. hitting insurrection curious republican senator ron johnson of wisconsin over his insurrection apologizing and

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don't let asthma take another breath. go triple. go trelegy. ask your doctor about trelegy today. when it was time to sign up for a medicare plan... mom didn't know which way to turn. but thanks to the right plan promise from unitedhealthcare she got a medicare plan expert to help guide her to the right plan with the right care team behind her. ♪ wow, uh-huh.♪ and for her, it's a medicare plan with the aarp name. i hope i can keep up! the right plan promise, only from unitedhealthcare. get help finding your plan at uhc.com/medicare. i'll never forget january 6, watching my fellow law enforcement officers defending the capitol, defending our freedoms, defending democracy, and then five officers dying. but ryan johnson is making excuses for rioter who is tried

to overthrow our government, even calling them peaceful protests. johnson defended donald trump's lies and even supported efforts to make it harder for some people to vote at all. senator johnson is just not for us. >> a new ad from the senate majority pac, the democrat senate action committee sitting senator ron johnson for his role in january 6th, and his efforts to stop the 2020 election certification. it's the first ad in this race focusing on the capitol insurrection. i thought this ad was very powerful. do you think it will work? >> yes because of the angle it takes. it questions johnson's loyalty. it's similar to how mcmullin hit lee in utah the other night. the issue of january 6th unfortunately doesn't resonate at the top of issues that inform people's votes. but if you go right to an incumbents integrity, their loyalty to the country first, their constitutional responsibility and can demonstrate instead of doing

that they've acted for their party and own interest and frankly, donald trump, that's a serious indictment. that hit land and that's a bruising point. >> i'm surprised that the insurrection has faded, right? i mean, the image of our capitol, our seated government under siege from trump supporters, cops being beaten with flag poles by trump supporters. to david's point, to make a perspective to say if he turned on the country on january 6th he can turn on you at any time? is that a more effective way to communicate about it? >> it is yet another one of those complicated things. it's like when it happened, it was so jarring. but, you know, i feel as if we're continually pummelled with very life-changing things. >> it's too much. >> it is. it is. so, it's like, all right, which fire is going off now, right? you know, we thought, mistakenly that roe v. wade was protected. we continue to have these

moments of crisis, so it's like, where do we go. i think what mandel did was really good because in that back he had with ron johnson saying he backs the blue -- all law enforcement has made it clear they've been against those bills just to be clear. >> right, right. >> also you're saying i'm so pro law enforcement and mandela isn't. but when law enforcement was literally being beat to death, ron johnson, where were you? and we're talking about the law enforcement in which you actually have the ability to affect them. we're talking about capitol police. >> protect them. >> correct. and you're not protect lg the police that are actually sublet within your purview, yet you want wisconsin to believe that they will be safer with you in office and that you are going to protect those law enforcement officers. so, pointing out the hypocrisy, making sure that it's an actual police officer that is talking about his brothers in blue, i think that that brings the

imagery of it together and it ties it together on a deeper level about january 6. but when we start to peel back the layers of the complexities from january 6, we look at democracy in and of itself. we look at who actually believes in our country and what we stand for? who believes in a peaceful transfer of power? who, next, is going to say, never mind, i just want to declare that i won. forget everybody that voted. i don't care about your votes. we're just going to declare me the winner, right? who's going to do that next? so, you know, it's unfortunate that we're so stressed out about so many other crises that have been thrown upon us that we're not really spending the time to say, listen, we are only this far away from becoming the places that many of us left. you know, we are a country of immigrants, and we left that. the people that are seeking asylum now, they're trying to leave those type of countries. yet slowly and surely, every single day it seems like we're following into those problematic

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this election: we can stop big tobacco's dirty trick. voting yes on prop 31 will end the sale of candy flavored tobacco products. saving kids from nicotine addiction. vote yes on 31. it's 5:00 in new york. for years, the former president railed against the investigation into his ties with russia, so adamant that he had been wronged. trump tasked his attorney general bill barr with appointing special special counsel, u.s. attorney john durham, to investigate the conduct of the fbi agents who worked on the russia probe. the ex-president always viewed durham's probe as his opportunity for vindication. you can hear him say it, he would uncover, quote, things that nobody believed. but that dream of vindication was finally annihilated yesterday. "washington post" reporting this, quote, a jury found a

private researcher who was a primary source for the 2016 dossier of allegations about former president donald trump's ties to russia not guilty of lying to the fbi about where he got his information. the verdict in federal court in alexandria, virginia, is another blow for special counsel john durham, who has now lost both cases that have gone to trial. so, for those of you keeping score at home, no one durham has investigated or prosecuted has ended up in prison. only one government employee has pled guilty to altering an email that was used in preparing the application to monitor carter page. and now grand jury durham was using has expired. yesterday's acquittal in the durham probe is a massive failure for durham, for barr, for trump. it comes amid a barrage of other big losses for the ex-president.

the special master rebuked trump's legal team for not sustaining their claims of privilege. judge raymond dearie went so far as to say this, quote, where's the beef? i need some beef. don't we all. after reviewing an initial badge of documents that trump's lawyers asserted as privileged. trump was deposed today in the defamation lawsuit filed by writer e. gene carol, who says he raped her in the mid 1990s along with that subpoena coming for trump's testimony before the january 6th committee. the hits keep coming for the twice-disgraced ex-president. now a georgetown law professor as well as msnbc legal analyst. pete struck is also here. i know it's a poo-poo platter of criminality and muck. but let's start with durham, and we'll go in order. i remember, pete stock, watching

fox news during the trump presidency. i think mueller's investigation was still active. and they said, the real russia investigation, durham. my question for you is, why did durham go along with it? he had a reputation that wasn't what he seemed to become. >> that's a great question. i did not work directly with john durham, but people i respect did, thought very highly of him. he went into a very toxic environment in the field office in the past and sorted through that. he went on to look at the destruction of cia tapes and matters relating to the rendition detention program. so, throughout that period, he developed a reputation as somebody who was thorough, who was fair. and what happened? i can't explain it. clearly the results of this process, the things that he did on behalf of bill barr and donald trump -- although i'm

certain he'll say he didn't do it on behalf of anyone -- clearly ended up being a partisan exercise. we finally have arrived at the right answer, over $6 million later, almost twice as long as special counsel mueller took to wrack up innumerable convictions. and it's a sad ending to what was an exercise of trying to pursue critics of donald trump and has ended appropriately and justly in these two acquittals. so, i can't explain what happened. like so many other people who came into trump world with decent reputations, he leaves, you know, a very different -- with a very different perception in the public eye. and i can't explain it. and it's -- there's some tragedy to it. >> two people who have known donald trump for a long time said the importance of the durham story cannot be overstated because should trump end up anywhere close to the white house again, durham-style investigations and attempts at

prosecutions of political enemies will be the norm. that will be all that they do. and bill barr appointed durham special counsel again at the end to make sure that it endured into biden presidency. but there was an inflection point, pete strzok. it was in september 2020. nora dannehy, a senior prosecutor in durham's investigation, who worked with him for decades, who also hailed from the state of connecticut quit. bill barr and john durham travelled to italy to try to uncover some of the lamer conspiracy theories about the 2016 election. and i wonder if you think we'll ever know exactly how much pressure there was from trump and barr on john durham, pete? >> i don't think so. i mean, i think that's the kind of thing to the extent it existed, one you would have to talk to people directly

involved. and i don't think any of the folks in those discussions have any real motivation to want to talk about it. i think it's clear. we talk for a long time about some of bill barr's abuses about the department of justice and the justice system to pardon trump's allies, to reduce their sentences. but what was particularly more significantly dangerous was the attempt, as you pointed out, to start using the justice system to go after his opponents, to investigate them, and in some cases prosecute them. and that's a far more nefarious sort of abuse of the system of justice to -- we're not talking letting your friends go, which is horrible enough. but when you start trying to pursue enemies to put them in jail, you know, that starts wreaking of an authoritarian regime. and i think it was a terrible abuse of the justice system. so, as to what happened, i don't think we'll ever get any insight. we've got this final koda in whatever sort of report that is written. merrick garland is still john durham's boss even as the special counsel.

so, i hope some of the inflammatory talking points that have been lobed coming out of the special counsels office would be tempered or not released at all. as to the true story there, we may never know. >> neal katyal, we're going to share everything we know about this really sort of miscarriage of the justice department with our viewers today. let me put it all out there. durham spent, as pete said, as far as we know, $5.8 million according to justice department records. here is the timeline. in may 2019, barr tapped durham to lead a wide-ranging inquiry into the russia investigation investigators. i think there were, by that time, at least a dozen tweets from trump about investigating the investigators. again, the timelining of trump's tweets to doj policy. barr named durham special counsel, meaning the investigation could continue during the biden administration. september 2020, nora dannehy, senior prosecutor in durham's

investigation resigns. in january 2021, kevin cline smith was sentenced to one year probation that he had altered a government email used to justify secret surveillance of former trump campaign adviser carter page. may of 2022, the jury acquitted michael susman for the durham probe. here's a little bit of color "the new york times" is reporting today. quote, during closing arguments in both the susman and dan chen coe cases, they were both acquitted, defense lawyers pointed to evidence showed mr. durham and his team had lost their way, ignoring signs of serious flaws in their cases because they were so intent on convicting someone. this "new york times" reporting and analysis, neal katyal, he coes of the berman accounts of doj losing its way, greg craig

wanting to inform greg craig. >> i think that timeline you gave was really helpful. it's important to note that timeline you note starts in may 2019. there's a whole set of events that happened before that, which is the inspector general of the justice department had investigated all of these things already. so, durham was appointed by barr after there was already a full-blown investigation that concluded that there was no problem. durham then started saying, oh, no, i disagree with the ig's investigation. and that's led to where we are now. and it is an absolute disgrace. i mean, i can't put this in simple enough terms, stark enough terms. but if you're a federal prosecutor, you really have to try to lose your criminal case. i mean, it's kind of like failing a class at stanford. you really got to try to do it. 99.6% of federal indictments, according to the pew research

study, wind up in a conviction. and that's why there's so much of the justice department is designed to make sure that prosecutors really have a strong case. when they bring one, they're likely to get a conviction. so, go on and make sure it's fair and alike. to lose two federal trials, as john durham did, that is almost unheard of. i'm not sure i've seen a bigger whiff but a federal prosecutor than what's happened with john durham. as darth vader would say, i mean, durham has made his transformation complete. he's now fully a trump lawyer. he has all the hallmarks, bogus claims he's advanced all the time in court, and serious court losses. you know, it's a real disgrace.

prosecutorial -- questions about prosecutorial misconduct to account? >> it's really hard. obviously if their person is still an existing prosecutor, there's the office of professional responsibility, which can open a justification that's part of the justice department with a lot of resources and a lot of know-how into reviewing these cases. once someone leaves, there is congressional oversight, which, as we've seen, doesn't work particularly well in this toxic

environment. there's sometimes ethics review commissions and things like that that can be used as well. there are some tools. but the justice department basically operates on the view it's much better to police this at the front end, at the get-go, make sure the criminal cases are strong, rather than trying to investigate after the fact an abject failure, like what happened to john durham. and one problem with any special counsel, whether it's john durham or independent counsel like ken starr is that it's really hard to get the rails around an investigation from the politically appointed attorney general because the ag doesn't want to be accused of interfering with some need to have an independent investigation. so, here you've really seen an investigation that went totally off the rails and without real -- you know, the ability to rein that in. it really underscores, trump kept saying, oh, there's this deep state bias against him.

the fbi's against him and the like. the only evidence that really ever emerges is evidence like what happened with john durham, which is it was all the other way. if there was bias, it was people trying to do trump's bidding, use, at peter strzok just said, the apparatus of the justice department to do that. unfortunately for these two defendants, juries of their peers said, uh-uh, no way, there's nothing here. acquitted, not just hung jury like one juror didn't want to convict, but acquitted. >> it's an incredible stain on what was once a sterling record. i want to turn to trump's other legal matters. there's a small matter of trump handing classified materials to bob woodward. let me play the tape. >> nobody else has them but i want you to treat them with respect. >> i understand, i understand. >> and don't say i gave them to you. >> okay. >> but i think it's okay. i wasn't going to give them to bob, you know? would you make a photo stat of

them or something? >> no, i dictated them into a tape recorder? >> really? >> yeah. >> i don't know what's the scariest part of the tape. it might be the ha, ha, ha. pete strzok, these are one of the allegedly stolen and held onto items. we don't know what else is in there. but there he was sort of showing classified things to journalists and writers all along. what do you think? >> well, i think the biggest thing it shows is that trump is absolutely aware of what classified information is, that it is something to be handled carefully, that it is something that he doesn't want known that he's showing because he understands he shouldn't be doing. in terms of his state of mind about what classified information is and how it should be protected, this is an extraordinary piece of evidence for certainly prosecutors and the potential jury to look at. the fact is at that time of this recording, he was the president and at very wide latitude to

share it with whoever he wanted. that didn't extend the day after, you know, he left office or at any point after that. you know, nicole, i can't help but imagine the scores and scores and scores of other conversations he likely had with other journalists and or friends or lobbyists or whoever stumbled into the oval office and he wanted to show them something neat. this doesn't feel like the first time he's shown a journalist or somebody else something he shouldn't have. this, in my mind, looks like a pattern. this looks like something he knows he shouldn't be doing it, and he's doing it anyway. i think it's not surprising. i think it really undercuts a lot of the things we're hearing these days coming from him and from his attorneys about the documents he should not have had at mar-a-lago. and, again, i think it's a powerful piece of evidence demonstrating what he knew about classified information. >> neal, i want your thoughts on that. let me add one more piece of

reporting into evidence for our conversation. this is in "the new york times" today. dr. dearie seems doubtful about one of the documents mr. trump's lawyers claimed was his personal property. quote, unless i'm wrong, and i've been wrong before, there's certainly an incongruity here, judge dearie said. the judge also said he wanted more information to support the former president's claims that some of the documents were shielded by attorney-client privilege. he asked for the names of lawyers connected to such matters and suggested trump's team asserted privilege over other matters, suggesting they are not confidential at all. where are we? >> we are in a place in which judge dearie is really showing that, you know, he's a real judge, unlike, you know, some of the trump judges, like judge cannon in the past who are have just done his bidding.

what it means is that there is almost no likelihood that trump is going to be able to shield these documents because of executive privilege or attorney-client privilege. maybe there will be some stray document here or there. but basically the arguments trump's lawyers have been advancing are inconsistent and unsupported. another point of the hearing, judge dearie said, where's the beef? tell me where you can support these allegations of executive privilege, or in the past he's talked about how, if you really, trump, think that you declassified these documents, say so. explain it to me. the lawyers still haven't done that. the lawyers still -- it's been ten weeks since the search -- haven't explained what in the world donald trump is doing with all of these documents at mar-a-lago well after he's been the president. so, all of this is still unexplained. and it's, i think, heading in a really, really bad direction for donald trump. he's done nothing to move the needle. if you're merrick garland, he's

done not one thing to suggest he shouldn't be indicted. and by contrast, he's done a lot to suggest he should. >> neal, one more question for you. i know you tweeted about this. we also have a new filing today from judge david carter in the january 6 cases related to john eastman and donald trump saying that he's seen evidence, he believes evidence exists, of a criminal conspiracy. talk about the significance of today's ruling. >> okay. so, the basically there have been a whole bunch of emails from john eastman, who's a law professor who's acting as donald trump's lawyer possibly at times and donald trump and other people. and eastman has tried to shield that from investigators, saying that's attorney-client information. but there's an exception called the crime fraud privilege exception, which says that if you are using your attorney to commit a crime, the evidence has to be turned over to investigators. and eastman and trump have been

so worried about these emails coming out. and they've gone to court time and time again to try and block them. today, just an hour ago, this highly respected federal judge, judge carter in california, said he's looked at the last batch of emails and they're not protected by attorney-client privilege. and his reason for that is the crime fraud exception that these emails show a deliberate lie by none other than donald trump himself personally that john eastman, the lawyer, was actually telling trump, hey, these vote counts that you want to certify in these proceedings, these legal proceedings, and say, you know, provide certain numbers, eastman is saying to trump, those are inaccurate. don't do it. what does trump do? in black and white, he does it anyway. he signs those very paper he was warned not to sign. and he does so under penalty of purge si, as it says in the thing that he signed. now, trump's defense is, well, i

signed them based on the information given to me by my attorneys. but the judge pointed out, no, your attorneys said the reverse. they said, don't sign these documents. this is going to have huge consequences for both the justice department into trump and his lies about january 6th but also around the georgia investigation that is centered around the inaccurate vote counts that trump was trying to sell like a bag of goods to federal courts. i'm in federal court all the time. one thing i can tell you judges will say will make the system not work is when litigants actively lie to the court. and right now i don't see any other explanation. i'm where judge carter is. these show donald trump lied to the court. >> amazing. i'm without words. neal katyal, pete strzok, thank you so much for starting us off this hour. when we come back, the battle for midterms is shaping up to be one of democracy versus

economic angst, as republicans go heavy on issues like inflation. democratic candidates should be reminding voters that the biggest obstacle to a thriving and vibrant economy is right wing autocracy. that conversation with our good friends matt daoud and cornell belcher is next. plus kevin mccarthy suggests aid to ukraine will be cut off with republicans take the house. we'll have a live report from kyiv. and later in the show, we'll show you more from our dedline sport about the mental health emergency in our country, including an emotional conversation with olympic gold medallist, superstar lindsey vaughn, about the struggles she has endured and written about as one of our top athletes. "deadline: white house" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. quick break. don't go anywhere.

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it's a conversation we're going to have on this program every day until election day and beyond, a very important one. we're talking about the perception there's attention between voters' concerns about economic issues on the one hand, which affect all of us very personally and create a lot of stress, and what seems like a larger, maybe more abstract threat to the health of our very democracy. polls suggest voters are separating those two things. "the new york times" poll suggests 7% -- keep in mind

functioning democracy is vital to a healthy economy no matter where you live. that is a global truth. our friend matt daoud suggests you do it like this. should be a corner of the news media's coverage of current events. quote, if there is a slow steady rain outside, i am already aware and you don't need to keep telling me. if there is a hurricane about to happen, please tell me about that so i can save my family and friends. matt daoud joins us now. matt daoud, i've asked this question, name an autocracy in which it's flourishing. there is not one. they do not exist. antidemocratic policies moves from republicans, fear mongering about the economic. threatening economy cannot exist

in an autocratic country. >> i'll remind people that in the 1930s germany there was a candidate and a party that said they were going to do something about inflation. and they did something about inflation. inflation went away but so did the democracy in germany in the 1930s up until 1945. i think the problem is twofold. to me it's really twofold. one, i think the media, i think has a responsibility in this. and i think you obviously are doing this with a headline show on dedline democracy and you do it every day. there's too much reporting on something voters are aware of and not on what voters are not aware of, which is the threat to democracy and what that might mean. what is the results of that? it's not only will economy flourish? it's will you have any equity in economy. what happens when you lose democracy? the economy becomes the service of the tribe in power, of the people in power, of the certain element of people in power. and then you add on to that, you

begin to lose freedoms when you lose a democracy. so, reproductive choice, there's no aspect to sort of get that back. gun reform. minimum wage increases. all of those things are put at risk. every single one of those things. and there's no ability for the will of the people to say wait a second, wait a second, there might be these special interests that want it, but this is what we want and then can go to the ballot box and do that. i am afraid not only has the media in some respects not done a good enough job, but the democrats have had $4 billion -- 4 billion, billion with a b -- to spend in this election cycle through the candidate expenditures and through their super pacs. very little has been spent on this particular issue per se. and that, i think, is irresponsible. >> you're an internal optimist. what do they do in the final three weeks to fix that? >> to me, the key factors in an

election are compelling message coupled with discipline. and those are the two hardest things for candidates to do. they spend a lot of time raising money. money is not going to determine who wins come november 8th. it's who's got a compelling message that people can remember. oh, yeah, i know, this is the candidate stands for x, y, and z. to america it's a democracy message and it says here's everything at risk if we lose our democracy and then stay disciplined on it. too often people give a speech or they say one line of a debate and go on 15 other things. you have to say it, as you know, nicole, at every instance, every direct mail piece, every phone call, every event, and every tv ad. that will make the difference. >> cornell belcher, there's a great line annette bennings' character utters, on election

day, people care about what i tell them to care about. why don't democrats believe that that is the case? >> i wish i knew the answer to that. i've been wondering about that for quite some time. i will say this. the ideal of democracy going away, it is a tough issue, right? it's not something i think most americans think about on a regular basis. and what skin do you, as an average american, have in that game? you know, you, suburban mom in middle of nebraska, you know, how does your life change -- what does it mean for your life and your children if democracy goes away? i think we've spent a lot of money on advertising talking about a lot of the conventional issues because they're easy and we know how to talk about them. but i would love, quite frankly, all the million of dollars being thrown around in campaigns right now -- right now, someone write a couple million dollar check to

daoud to his super pac. and he needs to put up ads in the last closing three weeks here that explains to middle america what happens to you when democracy goes away. because too many of americans don't really understand the concept of what's my skin in the game if democracy goes away? and conventional campaigns are spending all their money on these conventional issues. and i think this is an issue that americans need explained. so, i'm on board right now after writing a check to daoud's super pac on democracy. >> we're going to do it right here. if you live in florida and you care about the economy, that's dangerous, because your governor picks winners and losers. and if your employee ends up on his enemy list, you're you know what out of luck. you are out of luck if the second most prominent republican in the country gets peeved at your company over a hateful

policy. i don't even remember what it was he punished -- matt daoud, those ads write themselves. you do one. >> absolutely. you can take every single issue that somebody cares about, climate change, abortion, guns, minimum wage, every single issue you can talk about and say, if you care about these, the only path to get what you want and to get what's good for the country and good for your neighborhood is through a democracy. once you no longer have a path to a democracy, you cannot get any of those things done. so, my fault of candidates is they stop at the issue and don't connect it to the broader one-sentence thing, which is all these things matter. and we need to do something about it, and we need to have equity in our economy. and we need to do what we need to do internationally, and we need to solve these problems. you know how we get there? through a democracy, and my opponent is opposed to it. >> cornell, i still view these midterms as the first midterm

after an a president attack on the u.s. capitol. and that may be personal to me because i worked in politics during elections held after september 11th, which i know is a totally different thing. but it was still this earthquake in our country and it was an image seared into our my mind at least. do you think there are -- are you open to the fact that anything could happen in three weeks? or are you sort of resigned to a sort fate? >> i'm not resigned to a certain fate at all. i've been in politics long enough to be realistically cynical. however, at the same time, i do have this faith in american people that ultimately they'll get it right. look, i think there are signs of that. when you look at early turnout returns from some of the key battleground states right now, our fear was that would this look like midterm 2010. clearly from at least an early turnout, it is matching, if not

better than what we saw in 2020. so, i don't think we're going to have a pullback. i think when you look at young voters, when you look at women voters, when you look at voters of colors, especially a look at georgia and a look at tremendous early turnout among african americans, i think in the end i have faith that american people will get this right and in the end say it's because the american people. >> i love talking to both of you. thank you so much. to be continued. vladimir putin declare martial law in parts of ukraine he tried to illegal annex. kevin mccarthy claims funding for ukraine could dry up if republicans take congress. a live report from kyiv is next. . ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪

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martial law in part of ukraine, what does that say to you, sir, about where his thinking is on the war right now? >> i think vladimir putin finds himself in an incredibly difficult position. and what it reflects to me is, it seems his only tool available to him is to brutalize individual citizens in ukraine, ukrainian citizens, to try to

intimidate them into capitulating. they're not going to do that. >> they're not going to do that. that was president joe biden earlier this afternoon reacting after vladimir putin has once again raised the stakes in ukraine, as he seeks to conjure up a win or save from defeat to make up for the humiliating string of embarrassments he still faces on the battlefield. the kremlin announcing today that russia will impose martial law in the four regions he illegally annexed last month, regions which are not recognized by the united states or the west as russian. putin's decree imposes tighter control over its citizens, allowing for curfews, property seizure, and forced relocation. the announcement comes as financial support for ukraine is being questioned publicly by republicans. kevin mccarthy warning in an interview if republicans take control of the house in 20 days, ukraine will not be given a

blank check for the existential fight for democracy and against russia. joining us now, nbc news correspondent cal perry live in kyiv. president zelenskyy has always conducted himself publicly and from what i understand privately as though he's in a race against time. and i wonder if these midterms are part of that calculation for him. >> reporter: it feels like the midterms are a part of the calculation. it feels like winter is part of the calculation. and those two things are sort of part and parcel. when you look at what we saw today on russian tv, i think what we're seeing is an explanation for battlefield losses by vladimir putin, specifically the city of kherson, caught in the middle. if you live in these four areas, you're already living in hell. at best you're being shelled every day. you're more likely living in a town or village that one day is under russian control, the next day under ukrainian control, then russian, then ukrainian.

then today you're forced across a river and the ukrainian military has to decide in order to force the russians out of this city, do we level it. that's what president zelenskyy is up against. all the while he's watching herschel walker in georgia and wondering how that's going to play out here. people here are talking about it. >> cal, i know you're doing reporting there. tell us what you're hearing and what you're learning not just from government officials but from the ukrainian people. >> so, i wanted to share with you tonight the level of fear that we've picked up on the ground since our last trip. the fear is at a new level. people are not just afraid of the rockets and drones, which are on an everyday terrifying basis because they're exploding and killing people. they're afraid of the threat of nuclear war. it's on the tv every day. it's reached down to elementary school kids. we spent the day watching elementary school kids train for a nuclear blast, putting on swim

caps and swimming go goggles because that's all they have. i asked one mother about it. >> i understand the price is higher and so on. but, look, we also have much high prices that we had. but it doesn't matter absolutely when your son is asking me, mom, why are they shooting to us? i don't want to die. and we're sitting in a shelter and he's looking at me and saying that i don't want to die. i want to live. believe me, that's incredibly hard to stay calm and to make my son feel safe. i know that you're not very comfortable with some economic issues and so on, but believe me, it's not the worst thinking in the world. absolutely not. >> oh, my god. >> reporter: that's an attempt

to tie a bow on what you started with. people here know about the midterms. they talk about the midterms. they talk about inflation. i asked this woman, what's her message to the u.s. she started by saying, i know that things there are expensive. people are aware it's just the everyday reality here is so incredibly different than anywhere else in the world. it's hard to imagine. >> cal, do you feel more safe or less safe? what is the threat that you guys feel that you're under as journalists? >> reporter: less safe just from the everyday sort of bangs and booms and the drones going by and listening to that and the rockets falling. the last time that i spoke to you months ago on my last rotation, the alarms would go, the sirens, and we wouldn't really react. and nobody would react in the system. now when the alarms go off, everybody takes cover. and it's because in the last nine days we've had explosions every day. the city is weary. the city is tired. we're weary. we're tired. we're woken up every day by the sounds of explosions.

and my kids are not here with me. and that's something i think about every time because your world is very different when you're dropping your son or daughter off at school and then the explosions happen. you're trying to figure out what's the safe thing to do? do i pick them up? do i leave them at school? you look at this apartment building that was flattened by a drone here in the capital city the other day. do you leave? do you go back here? that's what family heres are thinking about. >> we're so grateful to have you there. thank you so much, cal perry. stay safe. when we come back we want to show you more from our brand-new "deadline: special report" facing millions of americans tonight. elite athletes using their platforms to shine a light on this crisis. we'll hear from olympic gold medallist lindsey vaughn and joined by six-time grand slam winner rennae stubbs right after a quick break. don't go anywhere. don't go anywhere.

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this week. four-time world champion s lindsey vaughn, who described how even she, an iconic olympian, who is at ease flying down a sheet of ice at 80 m an hour, was very reluctant to seek help for her depression. >> i really only went to the doctor because a friend of mine had been diagnosed with depression and had really similar symptoms. again, i went in. i was like, i am just going to get this done with so that i can confirm i'm fine. everything's fine. there's nothing wrong with me. and i was diagnosed with depression and given medication. and i still, you know, resisted therapy because i still thought there was nothing wrong with t nothing wrong with me. there is nothing wrong with me. there's nothing wrong with me. >> right. >> there's such a huge stigma around it, especially in sports. it's viewed as you can't be a strong athlete if you're depressed. you can't be strong and have

weakness. >> she was so incredible and so powerful and so relatable about wanting a doctor to confirm for her there's nothing wrong with her. she concludes that there is nothing wrong with herment joining us now, tennis star rennae stubbs, six-time grand slam champion and host of the rennae stubbs tennis podcast. you're someone i've reached out to and tried to understand, this extraordinary pressure cooker these elite athletes have to function in. >> yeah. >> what's the impact of someone like lindsey vonn coming out and saying i, too, have struggled with this thing? >> it's enormous for someone who not only is such a face of skiing, but women's sports, but someone so iconic and always been somebody who has looked like she's so strong and she can handle anything. as you know, anybody who is watching, as anybody in the world knows, the face of what you see is very different to what people deal with when they

close the door, go to their hotel room or go away on a holiday and they're faced with their lives. i think lindsey speaking out, and all these people you've had on -- nicolle, it's great you're shining a line on it, with people that are superstars. she's got money, she's got this, she's got that. none of that matters when you're not happy internally and you've got a lot of things going on in your own life. >> what lindsay said that is so important, as there is nothing wrong with me, as with diabetes where you have to deal with blood sugar. depression, i have to deal with my brain chemistry. she says just saying that out loud, if that destigmatizes it for one person, she'll be happy. >> obviously being on the tennis tour as long as i was, i saw a lot of people really struggling, whether physically, we talk about the physical injuries. not many people talk about the mental side of the sport. i can tell you after playing 22

years professionally and dealing with all the ups and downs of winning and losing, being away from home, away from your loved ones, and now as a coach dealing with the players. i've dealt with high profile tennis players. i've worked with two players that were number one in the world, worked with somebody who is number two in the world. the one thing i can tell you, my job as a coach, yes, you work with the xs and os, tell them about game plans, work on forehand and backhand and serves, but i deal with the mental side of tennis, dealing with insecurities and talking about if you have anxiety, if you have stresses, throw them down the other end of the court, because you never know what somebody else is feeling down the other end of the court and what they're dealing with. what i always say, everybody has something. things you don't talk about and don't hear about. no athlete is going to talk about the vulnerabilities because that's seen as a weakness. men don't talk about these

problems because they see it as a weakness. super important that everybody keeps talking about it. >> lindsay talked about male athletes. she singled out a couple that are the exception. can i show you what she said? >> of course. >> i had so many people reach out to me and just say thank you. it's given me the motivation to finally get help or to talk to someone, and i think that's one thing that all of us can relate to is by us sharing our stories, we're trying to help others and we're also helping ourselves at the same time. so we have this bond, and i think the more we talk about it, the more comfortable people are going to be. when you continue to have superstars like michael phelps and kevin love who are not just superstars, but male superstars talking about it, i think that also makes a huge difference because men are supposed to be tough and macho, and they can't express their feelings.

but they can. >> so important that she singled out that in some ways elite male athletes leave in an even more impenetrable cage as female athletes. >> the same as being gay. women come out and it's not a big deal whereas men, they don't want to be still ma tiesed with their peers and their fans. it's the same with mental health for men. it's super important for men it would be great for you to have someone sitting here that can talk about it from a male perspective. michael has been really great, such an advocate of mental health, as has kevin love. nicolle, i can talk about so many people that have so much anxiety dealing with as a tennis players. obviously that's my world. you saw someone like emma rat kanu have a panic attack on the court and have to leave the court. >> did people know what was happening at the time? >> a good friend of mine, julie, she works as a behavioral

therapist that works with children. she texted me. she's having a panic attack. it happened again not long ago, a couple months ago in washington, d.c., where it started happening again. because she had dealt with it and talked i'm sure to a therapist and various specialists, she was able to to deal with it better on the tennis court. we've obviously talked about naomi osaka through the years, these are kids, 19, 20, 21-year-olds, they've got millions of dollars. everyone thinks they should be fine. they have all this money. what are they scared about? they have to perform before thousands of people, supp parting their families. they have all the money in the world and that doesn't make you happy. we know a lot of people that are famous with a lot of money that are not happy. it's important everybody talks about it and gets as much help as they can. >> thank you for being part of our conversation. i hope it's to be continued. by the way, everyone in the

interview, rosie and lindsey mentioned naomi. >> naomi was such a big star when she brought it out and talked about it. there are thousands of naomis in the sporting world, the business world, the financial world, tv world. when they go home and the lights shut off and people think they're famous and rich and should be happy. that's not the case. >> thank you for being here. all four episodes of deadline special report are streaming on peacock including my entire conversation with world champion skier lindsey vonn. a quick break for us. we'll be right back. to bring out the innovator in you. first psoriasis, then psoriatic arthritis. even walking was tough. i had to do something. i started cosentyx®. cosentyx can help you move, look, and feel better...

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and essential infrastructure. reject prop i before it's too late. thank you so much for letting us into your homes during these extraordinary times. we're grateful. the beat with ari melber starts right now, right on time. >> right on time, like we do some of the time. >> most of the time. >> i'll take it. thanks, nicolle. welcome to "the beat."