all i got to tell you, i hea from a lot of you when boifrts icon billy porter. we went back and forth the entire interview which runs over half an hour and has a lot of stuff we didn't air last night. it's findable right now at msnbc.com/mavericks. it was a joy to hear from him and you can hear more from him. let me tell you what's coming up next week. the next maverick you see right here, we just taped with lyndi lauper coming exclusively to the beat next week. the reidout with joy reid is up necks. tonight on "the reidout" --

>> how long will you watch people being gunned down in first grade, fourth grade, high school, college, church, synagogue, grocery store, movie theater, a mall, and a nightclub and do nothing? >> congressman val demings shredded marco rubio on the debate stage last night as florida becomes the emblem of the rot on the right. also tonight, donald trump under oath, deposed today in e. jean carroll's defamation case. we could be hours away from the delivery of that subpoena from the january 6th committee. plus, incredible new reporting on the man barack obama, president obama warned trump about, michael flynn, and his holy war on america. rachel maddow is going to join me tonight. very excited about that. have you caught her amazing new podcast yet? we'll get an exclusive preview of episode 4 of "ultra" and we have more to talk about with the

great rachel maddow. we begin tonight with florida, which i would argue, even with texas existing has emerged as the modern state in this country that comes the closest to a modern-day version of jim crow. just hear me out. if there's a state that better exemplifies the rot of maga republican rule than the state of florida that the governor has named in very orwellian fashion the free state of florida, i honestly don't know what it is. i mean, florida has it all. a law banning gay people from declaring their existence at school. teachers can get fired for it. a law against anti-racist policies at work, like you have to let the racism be in the workplace or else. book bans and requirements for patriotic christian education propaganda in public schools, and, of course, a concerted effort to make it as hard as possible for anyone who might vote for the out of power party, the democrats, hashtag black people, to vote, or to have representative districts. florida's jim crow governor ron

desantis even has his own office of election crimes. newly released video shows tampa police back in august arresting people on charges of illegal voting in the 2020 election.

>> solid question posed by tony patterson. to be clear, that is because ron desantis and his republican

cronies in the state legislature have done everything in their power to reverse the clock back to the 19th century. in 2018 florida voters overwhelmingly approved an amendment reversing jim crow era laws in southern states and restoring voting rights for those with a felony conviction. more than 1 million floridians got their right to vote back. but in 2019, the republican state legislature stepped in and passed legislation requiring those citizens to pay associated fees or fines before regaining their voting rights. basically a big fat poll tax, which of course desantis happily signed into law. that law upheld in 2020 put a price on voting for thousands of disproportionately black, brown, and low-income white floridians that can run as high as $50,000 in some cases. in fact, in 2020 celebrities like lebron james and michael bloomberg contributed noun cover the fees and restore thousands

of people's right to vote. so naturally desantis asked his attorney general to investigate the donations, saying that helping people pay their poll tax was an illegal incentive to vote. meanwhile, those floridians hauled off in handcuffs this summer didn't even though know they weren't illegal allowed to vote. some showed police their voting registration cards. "the tampa bay times" found those arrests for illegal voting have nearly all been black or registered democrats. tada. meanwhile, the mostly white, heavily republican community called the villages, three trump supporters who have admitted to voting multiple times for trump were ordered to complete community service and take civics classes. with that, their debt to society will be paid. see? when you vote the right way, even multiple times, you're good. florida is the perfect emblematic state for magaism and the republican party, well, incumbent republican senator marco rubio is the perfect

avatar. here is what he said when he was asked about how hard it is to vote in the state of florida. >> there's a danger involved in drop boxes. people need to think about it. imagine someone decides i'm going to put an explosive in it and blow up the ballots and now those votes don't count at all. >> it only got worse from there as congresswoman val demings called him out on his history of morphing into whatever rotten party position that he thinks will get him power. >> she's never passed a single bill. she's been in congress for over half a decade. she's never passed a bill, not ppp, not anything. >> that's not true. i know the senator -- look, i'm really disappointed in you, marco rubio, because i think there was a time when you did not lie in order to win. i don't know what happened to you. our primary responsibility is the safety of floridians.

and senator, 24 years in elected office and you have not yet risen to that occasion. and then when asked about it, you say something that makes no sense. >> the truth of the matter is at the end of the day americans have second amendment right to protect themselves. she supports no limitations of any kind. >> as a police detective that investigated cases of rape and inas he, no, i don't think it's okay for a 10-year-old girl to be raped and have to carry the seed of her rapist. no, i don't think it's okay for you to make decisions for women and girls. >> joining me now is charles low, "new york times" columnist and adrienne elrod, senior aide on the clinton campaigns. i'm going to start with you, charles, while you have the disadvantage of not being here at the table with us. i have to talk about florida in general.

i mean, that video of those police officers in some cases reluctantly arresting black folks for voting, to me this is not even just about them or about the guys in the villages who admitted to multiple voting and voting fraud, getting off the hook. it's about florida trying to send a message, let's just be clear, to the 1 plus million folks who got their voting rights backs, you can't vote here if you're black, brown, if you're poor, if you're not going to vote for republicans, your votes aren't welcome here. your thoughts? >> yes, we have to remember voter suppression is not just about one thing. yes, it's about district packing and gerrymandering of districts and drawing away minority districts. yes, it is about eliminating people from the voting rolls by purging. yes, it is also about, you know, making sure that people who have particular kind of i.d. or don't have those particular kinds of i.d. have a hard time voting.

also it is a about what you see in this video, which is actually terror. i'm actually a little bit about nervous about even showing this video because on the one hand, i think we have to see it so you understand the horror of it. but this happened to 20 people and broadcast it to all floridians because you can imagine the terror of someone who is just not sure about something or believe they may not be sure, and the idea that they should go to vote and just try to vote for the person they want to represent them, that somehow by some mistake they could get caught up in marco rubio's terror campaign, taken away from children employment and home is a suppresser in and of itself, even if it only happened to 20. it could suppress so many more votes to see the anguish in those people's eyes as they are arrested and hauled away from their homes. that is the grand scheme of how

voting has always worked. >> you know, adrian, it's an excellent point. back in 2000, the way voter suppression worked in florida they would put billboards up saying voter fraud is a felony, and it had a black person behind bars on it. you're like, well, i'm not a voter fraud person, but i am black, and this is florida, i am in the south and i'm a little nervous now. there were police patrols. you would go through a police cordon before you get to the polls, all these fun tricks. people forget florida is the south. now ron desantis is seeing, you know what, lee county? i'll make it easier for you to vote in the drop boxes that marco rubio says might be blown up, you can use them, but i'm only going to put them in republican areas, white areas, not going to put them where anybody who ain't white is voting. he has election police. he wants intimidation because he

will win at any cost. >> you're exactly right, joy. these are the tactics we're seeing not just in florida but across the country. some of them are more subtle and it's important we notice them and we call them out for what they are. charles is exactly right. you know, if you are a voter in florida and you're watching these videos, you might think twice about whether or not you want to vote, especially, you know, if you have had a minor criminal record or if something happened in your past that may cause you concern about getting arrested. i mean, these are the kind of tactics that they are deploying. when you contrast that, joy, with somebody like terry mcauliffe, he allowed anyone who was a former convicted felon to be able to vote. it was a huge thing for us and for democrats. it paved the way across the country for other states to do that. but one of the reasons why republicans don't want to see this is because they believe that's going to put more people in democratic hands in terms of who's going to vote for

democrats. >> val demings who is a former law enforcement officer, she's running now. what i've been flummoxed by when i talk to friends that are working on campaigns down there, there is sort of an almost built-in passivity. every trick in the book. this is a woman who -- she laid marco rubio out. >> she crushed that debate. >> and yet, it feels like there's so much suppression in that state. >> yeah. >> so much fear, and women are already -- teenage girls are having to leave the state to get abortions. >> right. >> florida feels so far gone. how do you feel about the prospects to return to democracy? >> not only of course under governor desantis have you seen more laws passed that hurt women, children, and people of color. you have to look back to 2016. this has become an increasingly redder state. hillary clinton lost florida by a point to donald trump. joe biden lost florida by a couple points to donald trump.

this is just becoming a more red state. you know, we could go into why that's the case, but what does bother me about this race is i do think some of the national democrats have written this off. there's no way val demings can beat marco rubio. i think if there had been a little more investment in her race recall on -- by the way, i'm not writing her off yet. i think she has a really good shot. but if we had seen early investment in this race, could have been better. >> let me play -- there was an interview with the florida secretary of state about the voting rules. here's yamiche's reporting. >> what do you say to critics who say that the office of election crimes and security, what some have called the election police force, that that was created to establish a false political narrative about a problem that doesn't really exist? >> i think that's just completely inaccurate and belies the truth that there are people that vote that aren't entitled to vote. and every single person that votes that shouldn't undermines

someone -- the legal vote of someone else. >> charles, you know, this is the argument that republicans are making to justify suppressive rules. they're like, we're just trying to make it harder to cheat. but they actually don't show evidence that anyone other than these trump supporters that we know did cheat in the state of florida, they get to read a civics book and go about their business. i'll bet they'll be able to vote this cycle. >> absolutely. this is not a problem that is a real problem. there are only a handful of people who ever vote in these elections illegally. you can go after them with existing laws. you do not need a new law enforcement entity to go after them. but more importantly, you have to remember anyone who is kind of a student of history, the idea of election integrity was the exact same rationale that was used to erect jim crow in the first place. they were saying black people and carpetbaggers from the north were disqualifying the vote by corrupting it, and that's why

they had to step in and make the vote safe, secure, and legitimate again, and they did that by erasing the rights of almost all black people to vote in those southern states. >> exactly. >> this is not a new thing. >> nope. >> this is the same rationale. >> it's the same rationale and they said the same thing. those people are being driven by communists and socialists. by the way, you can catch more of this interview with the florida secretary of state tomorrow night at 10:30 p.m. on neat press reports on "nbc news now." thank you both very much. up next on "the reidout," trump's many, many legal problems. we'll get the latest on the stolen documents, the insurrection, the defamation case, and on and on and on. be sure to join us on "the reidout" on friday. jonathan capehart has an exclusive interview with president joe biden where they will discuss the midterms, the state of american democracy and much more. you do not want to miss it. "the reidout" continues after "the reidout" continues after this.

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. beale issuing a subpoena shortly both for his testimony under oath as well as for documents. and we'll take whatever next steps we have to take, you know, assuming that he will fulfill his legal obligation and honor the subpoena. but if that doesn't happen, then we'll take the steeps we need to take after that. >> that was january 6th committee vice chair liz cheney last night saying the american people deserve to hear directly from donald trump and, like anyone else in this country, he needs to be held accountable. the subpoena from her committee could be coming at any moment now. it is just one of the growing number of legal woes for the twice-impeached disgraced former president. today trump was deposed under oath in a federal defamation lawsuit brought by e. jean carroll who alleges trump raped her in the mid-1990s in a department store dressing room

in manhattan. she says trump damaged her reputation when he accused her of lying while trying to sell a book. trump's lawyers say he was shielded from the claims of defamation. but he's undermined that defense by making the same denial just last week on his pretend twitter, truth social, calling it a hoax and once again claiming in gross and disgusting fashion that it could not have happened because, quote, this woman is not my type. joining me is barbara mcquade, former u.s. attorney and professor at the university of michigan law school. they call this the unsub. are you saying that you might be the unsuband that you might not rape that type of woman? let's look at this law under which she is able to operate. it's a law that allows sexual assault victims a one-time opportunity to file a lawsuit.

how might that play out? >> so we don't know what he said in his deposition. both parties are abiding by a gag order not to share the contents of it. it could be that he answered questions or denied the underlying allegation. it could be that he invoked his fifth amendment rights to neither lie or admit to it. now, one of the things, of course, that is different in a civil case than a criminal case is that a jury can be told that a person invoked their fifth amendment right against self-incrimination because they had a well-grounded fear of criminal prosecution. it could come up in this case and in that case. but the the most significant point you made was the one about his repeating the statement on truth social. i think he might have really blown it there. he's got this potential technical legal defense that he said in the scope of his presidency. maybe, maybe not, but saying it

last week is most certainly after his presidency, and she could file an amended complaint to add that claim. >> there's no accounting for intelligence in the things that he does. let's go back to january 6th. so there's a federal judge who has said trump knew his voter fraud claims were fake and has ordered john eastman to give more emails to the january 6th committee. here's the nbc news reporting. according to the judge, john eastman said in one of the email exchanges that trump was aware that the number of voter fraud cases his team said was inaccurate. but trump pushed ahead with that anyway. trump signed off in the end, swearing under oath that the numbers were correct. does this factor in any sense to the georgia case? because there is still the case that's happening in georgia. >>, oh, i think so. i think this could be excellent evidence. alone it's not a case, i don't think, that anyone would bring, but i think it tends to show

donald trump's absolute callous disregard for the facts, that he was told a number was incorrect and yet he still signed a document saying it was correct, that he had investigated it and to the best of of his knowledge it was accurate. john eastman said he knows the statement is false, yet trump signed it anyway. that is just one piece of the larger case that you would show of his intent to defraud, but they would love to have that email to demonstrate to a fact-finder that donald trump absolutely knew what he was doing was false and he did it anyway to serve his own purposes. >> let me ask about the subpoena real quick before we lose you for time. so we have become could you still during his four-year presidency of people doing this thing called blowing off subpoenas and just pretending they don't have to follow them and subpoenas don't matter if you're maga. can trump evade the subpoena that the january 6th committee is going to drop? >> well, i'm sure you read he's

going to try. he certainly has potential privileges he could assert from executive privilege to fifth amendment privilege against self-incrimination. but you can't just not show up, blow it off. you're supposed to show up and assert privilege so a judge can decide whether it's privileged and direct you to answer the question. ultimately, if he is in contempt it would be up to the justice department to decide whether to bring criminal charges to force him to testimony. we'll see how that goes. but i think the committee is well within its rights to demand and expect that he will show up to answer their questions. >> yeah. when you're a celebrity, they'll let you do it. that can't be the defense to everything. coming up, new reporting into trump's national security adviser michael flynn and his far-right holy war that's gaining an alarming amount of support across the country.

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you don't want to allow the enemy to choose the train to fight on. the train that i have chosen to fight on is the local battlefield, the local terrain, and i think that's the terrain that will win the day. >> how did trump's national security adviser michael flynn go from being an elite three-star army general to waging a spiritual war on america?

a new documentary from frontline and the associate press tackles that question, tracking flynn's holy war from the front lines in iraq and afghanistan, to his newly chosen battleground of local politics. associated press correspondent michelle smith, also a correspondent for the documentary, reports on flynn's activity in sarasota county, florida, where they are energizing local conservative activists at an event called the hollow. he saw posts about right-wing events happening there, along with free shooting lessons for children as young as 6. smith's frontline colleagues got to take a tour of the hollow and interviewed its owner, victor miller, who called his role in the january 6th insurrection euphoric. joining me is michelle smith, the associated press correspondent who spent more than a year covering flynn for the documentary. i watched it this afternoon. thank you for being here, michelle. it's fascinating.

michael flynn is an interesting character. i mean, this guy was an elite military member. he was the head of the defense intelligence agency, somebody considered a rising star in the united states military. then something goes haywire. by the time it's over and he gets booted out of the obama administration, he's at a state dinner with vladimir putin. he's sitting around with vladimir putin at a state dipper. jill stein was also there, interestingly enough. what happened? >> well, that's what we look at in our film. we traced flynn's life from his growing up in rhode island in a big irish catholic family and being politically active with his mom, who was a big anti-abortion activist here, and then into the military. and then he was -- left the dia and hooked up with the trump campaign.

and i -- we paid a lot of attention to what he's doing now. what we were very interested in his activities since january 6th and what he's been doing since trump pardoned him and since the insurrection failed. he moved to florida and started getting involved in local politics. >> i mean, he's also become sort of a messy figure a celebrity in the maga world. it partly feels like watching the documentary, it's partly self-aggrandizement, enjoying the celebrity of being a star and ego, but this religious fervor and this conviction that he's fighting a religious war to beat back leftism and communism, et cetera. this is a clip of you trying to interview him. here it is. >> a.p. is a horrendous organization, okay?

and you've been attacking me relentlessly for no good reason ever. for the last five years. so you want to know what am i after? i'm after trying to say, you know, get off this high horse. the media has done such a disservice to, frankly, to democracy. because of this interview, because of this interview i will never talk to a.p. again. >> okay. no, no, no. >> that was dumb. >> this is a guy who was only -- he only lasted as national security adviser for 24 days, lied to the fbi, got pardoned by trump, took the qanon pledge, pledged his fealty to qanon. the religious movement around him, do you get the sense that the movement around him is more anti-democracy -- is it more race paranoia or demographic paranoia or is it more religion?

>> it's -- there are many aspects to this movement that he's building. he's, you know -- there's -- he's been on tour, he's been to, you know, 60 different locations giving speeches since january 6th, and he's bringing together all these different elements. there's conspiracy theorists, there's election deniers, there's anti-vaxxers, and he's kind of bringing them all together under this -- in this movement. it's a christian nationalist movement that -- the idea is that america is a christian nation and we need to get back to christ and bring it back to religious principles. that is what he is espousing. in this interview that i did with him, this was an interview -- this was an event that he was announcing a big

initiative where he's sending out -- he and one of the groups that he works with has been training election and poll workers all around the country. that's why, you know, that's why he had this event and that's how i ended up getting the interview because i wanted to talk to him about what he was doing, the work he's doing. and that was, you know, several months ago. since then, he's, you know -- there's been lots of stories around the country of his -- this initiative, actually training people to go to the polls and he himself, flynn himself is -- signed up be tob a poll worker in sarasota county. >> that does not raise my confidence in the elections. it's scary stuff. the documentary is excellent. hopefully people will watch it. it's fantastic. it is a frontline documentary. michelle smith, thank you very much. appreciate you being here

tonight. thank you. coming up next, my pal, rachel maddow, joins me to discuss her brand-new awesome new podcast "ultra" which is a deep dive into extremism in american history and we're witnessing similar behavior with today's republican party. stay here because rachel is on the other side of the break. t getting screened for colon cancer, and hear their reasons why. i screen for my son. i'm his biggest fan. if you're 45 or older at average risk, you have screening options, like cologuard. cologuard is noninvasive and finds 92% of colon cancers. it's not for those at high risk. false positive and negative results may occur. ask your provider if cologuard is right for you. everyone has a reason to screen for colon cancer. if you're 45 or older, get started at missiontoscreen.com science proves your best sleep is vital to your mental, emotional, and physical health. and we know 80% of couples sleep too hot or too cold. introducing the new sleep number climate360 smart bed.

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smackdown from congresswoman liz cheney for taking aid away from ukraine if they take back the house. i think they will not want a blank check to ukraine. mark twain said history never repeats itself, but it often rhymes. what mccarthy is saying sure sounds like something we heard before in u.s. history, specifically in the 1930s when fascism was on the rise across the globe. back then the u.s. had its original america-first movement. opposition to our country getting involved in world war ii in any capacity, even by sending aid. the original america firsters wanted the u.s. to live with hitler. some even supported him and aligned with the nazis' hatred of jews. among those leading the charges were charles lindbergh, charles cog lynn, and henry ford. their ideas were supported by sitting members of congress, like senator earnest lundeen. as my friend and colleague rachel maddow points out in her

amazing new podcast, "ultra." >> fellow americans, america prepares to take the last step before entering another world war. i call upon the youth of america to put a stop to these un-american pro-european doctrines. the people should make known their protest. write your congressman and senators, telephone them, wire them, come to washington to see them. you must do this now. immediate protest will block the way to militarizing our nation. joining me is my friend and colleague, the great rachel maddow, host of the rachel maddow show and the host of "ultra." i think your focus group for everything you do is just me. it's just like, what is joy obsessed with? i'll make a whole podcast about it. i'm so obsessed with this era and i'm so glad you made this because i do feel like this is

history rhyming. the america-first piece, the anti-semitism we see from trump and kanye, the whole vibe feels the same. this episode we're going to preview tonight, it talks about one of the elected officials who was a part of it, earnest lundeen. i want to let you set it up, but i want you to also tell me why you wanted to do this particular era. >> first of all, thank you for setting it up likes to. that was awesome. great to hear lundeen's voice on television. i'm not sure that his voice has ever been played on television before. that part where he says wire them, like in that weird '20s accent, it's great to hear. you and i both are a little bit attached at the brain on these things, i think. and i keep telling people, you know, this is about sedition and, in fact, a big sedition

trial. we got the oath keepers on trial for seditious conspiracy right now. we have the proud boys' seditious conspiracy trial starting at the end of the year. this is predecessor to that, the podcast in the final episodes of the season is about the great sedition trial of 1944 where there's more than two dozen people on trial for seditious conspiracy. they're charged not only with trying to overthrow the government by force, a la january 6th, but being hooked up with the hitler government while they did it. and so it's about sedition, which we're confronting now. it's about authoritarianism and fascism in the united states, which we are confronting now. i will tell you, though, the other piece of it, which i also feel like you and i are of the same mind about is it's about there being really, really terrible members of congress, you know what i mean? we think that we got as bad as they get, and there couldn't be a worse batch. but, like, so earnest lundeen. the podcast opens with him dying

in a plane crash in a very mysterious plane crash that stays mysterious. and what emerges is that he's involved in a plot with an agent from hitler's government. that's kind of where we left the story of earnest lundeen at the beginning of the podcast. but this next episode that will drop on monday, you get to meet earnest lundeen's widow, his wife who was left behind when he died, and you get to hear her trying to explain away everything that he did, saying he definitely wasn't a nazi. all this stuff you are saying about him being a nazi isn't true. it's all just a big misunderstanding. and so we have a little sound from the senator, but i wanted to give to you, no one else has ever heard the sound from senator lundeen's widow. so here it is. >> fabulous. all right, roll 'em. >> the number of photographs of my husband were taken while he was speaking. one of those photographs was taken at such an angle as to convey the impression that my husband was standing beneath the

swastika. as a matter of fact, he was standing under the stars and stripes. i have beside me four photographs proving the truth of my statement. >> as chris hayes would have said, dun dun, dun. >> here's the photo of him. >> hello. heyo. i don't know which is richer, the old american accent where everybody talked like this. that's part of it. but you're right, it is the denial of reality that you can see to me is the other thing that is resonate between that era and this one. if you had put, like, you know, henry ford or lindberg on tv at that time, they would have denied absolutely that they were pro-nazi government. but it's like the denial of reality that you can see and the

determination to sedition. it feels so parallel to today. >> and we talk ourselves into this idea that there's something magic about, like, facebook or social media because it allowed people to create an alternate reality where the facts don't count and you can deny reality and everybody gets to live in their own bubble. you know what? i'm sorry. normal lundeen in february 1941 was on the radio in a nationwide broadcast being like don't believe your lying eyes. that didn't really happen. that was not thanks to twitter. we have had -- we have had confrontations with authoritarianism and fascism in this country before. they are often fought in fights that involve very powerful, politically connected people on the wrong side of that fight, and they're often fought in what feels like a post-truth environment where people deny they're doing the things they're doing, the worst people among us aren't at all having any compunction about lying and

those that do are at a disadvantage in debate. i just feel like to me -- i know it's a depressing subject matter, like, forgive me. if the fbi isn't investigating me based on the things i have searched over the last year, they need to get back to work. but it's a depressing topic, but i also feel like it's heartening to me because i hear too much defeatism from people in our generation. oh, this is so terrible and there's no way to fight it, it's a juggernaut, no. we fought this in the past. >> the thing that does scare me, if you go back and look at that era, what finally kind of rests america out of its america-first sort of bubble that we can let hitler an attack on the united states that brings the country together but also the moral authority that fdr was able to wield in the presidents could wield in that era. the thing that is different between then and now is that

it's hard to imagine any president of the united states in this hyperpartisan era being able to wield the kind of moral authority or bring the country together to reverse this fascism. i think that's probably what scares me more than anything else. >> although when you look back at the hostility to roosevelt reminds me nothing so much has the insane hysterical his hatred of barack obama. the anti roosevelt forces in this country literally included a group of well connected well off, well funded americans. very high resource, very high capability americans were planning immediate aftermath of the 1940 election to have violent attacks that would set off a violent revolution in this country, they figured enough americans would be dissatisfied that they would rose up against roseville.

that was happening. henry ford was the most prominent industrialist in the country, charles lindbergh was the most famous business person not named roosevelt. all the titans of industry were part of the america first movement, which got support from hitler government. so it really was very powerful just against hit roosevelt in a historical hysterical way. and yet all these different ways of fighting, americans did the right way. those we need to. >> 100%. my secret plan is essentially to create a hostage situation where i never let rachel maddow leave. so i'm gonna ask you rachel please can i just keep you for one quick commercial break? and ask you one question. it's not an ultra but on something else is super

important. can he stay for two? minutes >> absolutely. >> stay right there everybody, we will be right back. will be right back. allergies don't have to be scary. spraying flonase daily stops your body from overreacting to allergens all season long. psst! psst! flonase all good. ♪♪ here goes nothing. hey greg. um...hello? it's me, your heart! really? yes! recording an ekg in 30 seconds. tada! wow that was fast! good news, pal. i'm not detecting any of the six most common arrhythmias. what next? let's get some fresh air. been cooped up for too long.

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maddow. okay rachel have one quick question on a non-ultra topic. you've covered this more than i have in the show. what an interesting figure. he's the guy who bill barr brought in to try to investigate the investigation

into russia gates. he is now over to his latest attempt to prosecute based on i guess trying to find some criminal activity in the investigation of donald trump. what do you make of the number of legal figures he would throw the legal careers away on these quest to sort of absolve trump of russia gate even now? >> this is a true fiasco. this is something the justice department is going to have to contend with. this is part of the record. this is trying to problem with ties, or criminalize the russia investigation, the mueller investigation was nowhere near as long as durham's investigation of it. this was three years. he brought two cases to trial and in both of them there was an instantaneous acquittal, so we are left with not only is the russia investigation and the mueller investigation not a crime not a problem. there were concerning ties between the trump campaign russia, the trump campaign

chair gave private polling data to russian intelligence officer while they were doing it. oh and by the way the people who were sources of information about the trump campaign being connected to russia, those people did nothing wrong and released in the case of who was just a quid it, he was wildly important credible source for the fbi about russia, who is now being burnt and blown up because durham's investigation and republicans in the senate bloom up for political reasons. this is a smoking hot of a fiasco for them. >> i think to them think that people forget is when they launch these investigations, this ruins lives. it's not cheap to try to defend yourself against the government coming for you. how terrifying it has to be to have the justice department coming after you and accusing you of faking essentially an investigation when in fact you are trying to help your country and do the right thing. this rules, lives in ruins finances. and i think it does tie back to

what you are doing an ultra. it's the lack of concern for what you were doing to human lives in human beings as you are pursuing these really awful anti-democratic agendas that really burns. >> and also shows that the justice department has really, really hard time bringing accountability to bear against people have a lot of political power. in this case the russia investigation was properly predicated, it was real thing, no one was who was a source for it did things wrong, and yet the people on the fbi, the people resources for the fbi, government officials at every level who were involved, all of their lives and careers destroyed. because it was a politically powerful person who was targeted. that's the justice department not protecting the people in the process while they went after a person who was big enough to crush people who was in his way. >> indeed. episode four of ultra talks on monday. it's the number one podcast in the whole world so you've got a, gotta get more of. it we love you rachel maddow. that's today's readout.