your viewers can join me in safeguarding our democracy at jena for colorado.com. >> all right, jena griswold, who is the current secretary of state for colorado, and is on the ballot, if i'm not mistaken, as well this fall. thank you very much for your time, really appreciate it. >> thank you. >> all right, well, it was a long week. and friday is here. that is all in for the week. alex wagner tonight, i think, starts right now. good evening, alex. >> it does, i am here. >> you're not here! >> i'm not, i'm not. >> i am sorry, i didn't mean to call you out. but i am sitting here being like, i guess we're just gonna throw to her how much she usually -- >> like, steve kornacki is using that half of the studio for his upcoming special show. and i am in a parallel studio at 30 rock, in the future, where the week is not yet over for this television host. but clearly, your brain is in the weekend, chris. >> now, it's not in the weekend. that was me being, like i'm sure -- >> thank you for taking care of

me. i appreciate it, man. you are my friend, and you got my back, and i appreciate it, and i'm very happy that it's another weekend. >> have a great weekend! >> you too. thank you to all of you at home for joining us tonight. happy friday. and it sure has been a busy one. it has been a bad day, if your name is donald trump. today, the january 6th committee issued a subpoena for the former president, and it is blistering, saying he, quote, personally orchestrated a multi part effort to overthrow the 2020 election. we will be getting to that, shortly. but, first, do you remember this photo? what you are looking at is a highly sensitive satellite photo showing an explosion at an iranian space center. this photo from an intelligence briefing was tweeted out to the world in august 2019, by none other than president trump. the fact that he gets so rattled intelligence officials and its soon led to internet sleuths being able to identify the u.s. spy satellite that took the photo. there is something about iran that has always fascinated the

former president. then new york times reported earlier this year how trump, who withdrew the u.s. from the iran nuclear deal, how we took little interest in most stuff that he was briefed on. for one major exception, iran. quote, trump almost took always great interest in military intelligence briefings about iran, accusing defense officials about their contingency plans for a war with the country, and asking detailed questions about secret operations to counter iran in the middle east. trump's handling of glass fight intelligence is a topic of huge concern, given the justice department's investigation into hidden white house records at trump's florida beach club. and now, we know quite a bit about trump's efforts destruct officials from receiving, which reading those documents. the question of what exactly was in those documents, well, that has been more elusive. in august, a team of washington post reporters, led by devlin barrett, published a bombshell. fbi agents were looking for, among other things, documents

related to nuclear weapons. the next month, the post confirmed that it document relating to a foreign government's nuclear capabilities was indeed found at mar-a-lago during the fbi search. and now, today, we got another bombshell from devlin barrett, again, one that has been since confirmed by nbc news. here's the headline. mar-a-lago classified papers held u.s. equates about iran and china. look, some of the classified documents recovered by the fbi from donald trump's mar-a-lago home, included highly sensitive intelligence regarding iran and china, according to people familiar with the matter. if shared with others, the people said, such information could explode expose intelligence gathering methods for the united states wants to keep hidden from the world. why was trump keeping highly sensitive intelligence about iran and china at mar-a-lago? why take those classified white house records all the way to palm beach? but the post adds this chilling detail, not confirmed by nbc news, at least one of the

documents seized by the fbi describes iran's missile program. and some of these documents are, quote, considered among the most sensitive, the fbi has recovered, to date, in its investigation of trump. the former president put out a statement today, calling the investigation, a document hoax, and adding at the end, quote, who knows what norah and the fbi plant into documents or subtract from documents. we will never know well, we? we're not talking about trump taking home some innocent memorabilia here. we are talking about documents relating to iran's missile program, which the u.s. keeps a very close eye on. we are not the only country keeping a very close eye on iran's missile program. there are a lot of people who might be potentially interested in iran's nuclear program, and its missile program, including its enemies, like the saudis, who are sworn enemies of the iranians,, also the emiratis. and iran's allies, like putin who's currently using iranian drones to target kyiv and kill

ukrainian civilians. and other words, this is not just information that the u.s. is interested in, a lot of people are interested in, which brings me back to a few essential questions, why would trump remove these from the white house, and keep them, and deny having them repeatedly? and second, does the sensitivity of these documents, combined with the president well-documented obstruction, does that all increase the chances that the doj will seek to prosecute the former president? joining us now is the reporter who broke the story, devlin barrett, who covers national security and law enforcement for the washington post. devlin, thank you for joining us tonight. can i first ask you about the timing on all of this? do we have a sense of where in the back and forth between trump and the doj these documents first came to light? was it the first tranche, the second tranche, for the third time the fbi went into mar-a-lago? >> so, there are still blanks in the specifics of that but what i can tell you is that some of these most sensitive documents were recovered in the

search on august 8th. and one of the ways in which that complicated this investigation was that the investigators who are working this case, initially were not authorized to read some of the very documents that they were investigating. and they had to get special clearances, because some of this stuff was so restricted, that only a cabinet level, or near cabinet level official could authorize anyone else in the government to review it. >> i am sort of focused on the timing here, because the doj had been, and norah, had been asking trump for the return of all these white house documents. and at points in the course of the last, year trump had gone through these documents, reportedly, and self, and given back at each stage what he said was everything. can we assume that donald trump knew he was in possession of these documents by the time they were returned to the doj? >> well, that's one of the key

questions that investigators are working to put together all the pieces of. obviously, trump has issued a lot of denials, and a lot of different directions, frankly. and so, one of the things investigators are trying to put together is, what did he know, and what did he do, as the government demands for this became more and more urgent? >> did the fbi -- do have a sense of whether the fbi knew these documents were missing? i mean, i think one of the most infamous pieces of information we have gotten in all of this are the empty classified and top secret folders. do we have a sense that this is one of the documents from those empty folders? do the fbi actually know that some important information was missing? or did they only find out about it once they got it back from mar-a-lago? >> i am told they did not know. it's not, you know, like a library book checkout system. when it comes to the president of the united states. and so, it was, when they first

got -- when they first executed the search, and when they first went through it, they were seeing these things for the first time. you know, when they sent the first subpoena, that list just a bunch of different categories, pretty much every major category of classified intelligence, because they are trying to recover the entire universe of classified intelligence, including markings for nuclear weapons documents. and so, you can see from that that they are casting a very wide net, because they are really unsure what is there. >> devlin, did the degree that you can talk about this and know, what was the nature of this classified material? can you give us any sense of what the category of information we are talking about here? >> so, i think what is notable is that a bunch of these documents described intelligence gathering activities aimed at china, and that is important for a couple of reasons. one, that is some of the most secretive work the intelligence, the u.s. intelligence community

does. and it's one of the most difficult works. if you remember, there had been, in recent years, instances where that u.s.'s network of informants of people who helped them in china were sort of pulled apart, and taken down. and so, that area is a very difficult area to gather intelligence in. so, the notion that this type of secret government, government secret, was sitting in a, you know, basement, office, far away from the lock and peace of security government, where it's supposed to be. it's alarming to officials. >> which oldest pull the headline where there is one piece about 21, and there's one recently, effectively, the chinese i believe systematically dismantled cia spying operations, and systematically dismantled, we are talking about killing, imprisoning, i think the estimate is more than a dozen sources over two years. that is all, especially relevant, given china's importance and the geopolitical

landscape. in terms of the iranian information, we mentioned nuclear capabilities, missile systems. i was speaking with a former national security official who suggested that missile systems are important because if iran is trying to put a nuclear warhead on a ballistic missile, people need to know about that, and people will want to know about it. can you talk a little bit more about that? >> yeah, and i think, everything you said is right. i do want to be clear. what we have reported, the nuclear detail, and the missile document that we talked about, i actually don't know yet whether those are the same things, whether we are talking about the same thing. i haven't been able to figure out yet when we talk about that military defenses document, are we talking about iran? are we talking about china? are we talking about some other country? we're still working on reporting that out. but obviously, to your point, everything about the iran missile program is sensitive and fraud, and has major implications, both for security and diplomacy. >> is there a working theory

for why trump had all of this? >> you know, i think that is still a question of that, investigators are trying very hard to answer. i think one of the things that is sort of amazing about this entire process is there is a universe in which, if all of this stuff had been returned when asked, or even of all this stuff had been returned one demanded by a subpoena, we really would not be here. we really would not be necessarily at a criminal investigative state right now. so, i think it is hard to look inside some of it necessarily know exactly what they want, what they think but it's a major question, and it's a very important one for investigators to solve. >> presumably, they might be able to look into more than trump's heart, perhaps, there is some kind of communication that exist somewhere, that explains what exactly he was doing, squirreling away chinese and iranian intelligence at a speech club. do you think the sensitivity of these documents, combined with the of struck shun in plain view, increases the likelihood

that the doj is gonna serve and indictment here? >> so, to that question, i spoke to a very senior former justice department lawyer today, who said, this is, sensitivity, extreme sensitivity of these documents is exactly the kind of thing that will be considered an aggravating factor, so prosecutors considering a charge, meaning it counts against him, it is a mark against him, if as they consider whether to file charges in this case. >> devlin barrett, scoop score, bombshells going on. reporter at the washington post, covering national security and law enforcement, thank you for making the time tonight, goblin. really appreciate it, thanks for the great reporting. >> thanks for having me. >> we have a lot more to get to tonight. with the midterm elections, literally, weeks away, what should we expect from republican election officials will have to run a fair vote, but also, stay loyal to their parties election conspiracists? and, donald trump's ally, former aide, steve bannon, has been sentenced to prison for

defying a subpoena from the general six committee. now that the committee has subpoenaed the former president for his testimony, will donald trump face the same fate? congressman jamie raskin, member of that committee, joins me, coming up next. stay with us. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ my asthma felt anything but normal. a blood test helped show my asthma is driven by eosinophils, which nucala helps reduce. nucala is a once-monthly add-on injection for severe eosinophilic asthma. nucala is not for sudden breathing problems. allergic reactions can occur. get help right away for swelling of face, mouth, tongue, or trouble breathing. infections that can cause shingles have occurred. don't stop steroids unless told by your doctor. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. may cause headache, injection site reactions, back pain, and fatigue. ask your asthma specialist about a nunormal with nucala.

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>> okay, here is how it starts.

quote, dear president trump, the united states house of representatives resolution 503 instructs the select committee to investigate the facts, circumstances, and causes for january 6th attack, and issues relating to the peaceful transfer of power. we have assembled overwhelming evidence, including from dozens of your former appointees and staff, the two, personally, orchestrated and oversaw a multi part effort to overturn the 2020 presidential election, and to obstruct the peaceful transition of power. the january 6th committee has now made good on its promise to officially subpoena former president trump for his role in the january 6th attack, and the subpoena does not pull any punches. it goes on to tell the former president, you were at the center of the first and only effort by any u.s. president, to overturn an election, and obstruct the peaceful transition of power, ultimately culminating in a bloody attack on our own capitol, and on congress itself.

the evidence demonstrates that you knew this activity was illegal and unconstitutional, and also knew that your assertions of fraud or false. but to be clear, even if you now claim that you actually believed your own false election claims, that is not a defense. you are subjective belief could not render this conduct justified, excusable, or illegal. and in its subpoena, the committee has set a date for when they want trump to appeal, and it's november 14th, less than three weeks from today, and just six days after the midterm elections. they've also ordered trump to turn over a wide array of documents by november 4th, which is just four days before the midterms. trump's lawyers responded to a request for comment by nbc news, saying in part, as with any similar matter, we will review and analyze it, and we will respond as appropriate to this unprecedented action. there's a lot to unpack here, and we have just the person to ask. joining us now is maryland congressman and member of the

january 6th committee, jamie raskin. congressman, thanks for making the time to be here tonight. let me first just get started and ask you a question, i think a lot of folks are wondering, how did you decide on the timing? i believe the first part of this, the documents are called for before the elections, november 4th, and testimony is afterwards, november 14th. can you enlighten us as to how you chose those states? >> thanks for having me. i imagine that each member of the committee had his or her own reasons for going along with, you know, these states. but november 4th gives the former president certainly enough time to gather all of the documentary evidence we are looking for, which is clearly in his possession. he is clearly somebody who knows how to store documents, and this would give him a chance to turn that in. and it will give us a chance to go through those documents, and prepare for our questioning ten days later.

i think i support that timing because we want to make it clear that this is not about getting him in to testify right before the election, right after the election but, it's just great, and we don't want to get caught up with the politics of that. but of course, we need to act swiftly, because we are nearing the end of this congress, and at that point, you know, it's like cinderella's gown the. we lose our authority when this congress is over. >> do you expect that he is going to comment testify? i mean there are reports that he'll testify, if he can do so, why the reports of the committee considering that? we have been down this road before where donald trump says, oh, yes, sure, i will absolutely testify, aka, the mueller saga. and it never happens. what is your over render that he's actually testifying before the committee? >> i mean, one of the pathologies of our time is that before we even look at what a

reasonable law-abiding former president will do, we immediately get pulled into donald trump's psyche. a and, you know, i hesitate to go there. but i will tell you that, we have talked to more than 1000 people, the overwhelming majority of people with called, including members of former president trump's cabinet, members of his innermost staff, members of his family have come forward to tell us the truth. and to talk to the committee either informally, or mostly under oath. and the idea that somebody would ascend the highest office in the land, the president of the united states, and then, refused to testify about the worst domestic violent insurrection and attack on the u.s. capitol in our history is astounding. one would think that he would respect the rule of law enough

to come in. one would think that you'd understand it's a patriotic duty to do so. and at the very least, somebody who is willing to send other people into battle, to stop the steal on the patently false grounds that the election was stolen, certainly should not be so much of a snowflake, as not even to come forward to faith his own rationale for why he did that, and why he continues to claim against all the evidence that the election was stolen from him. >> if you keep calling him a snowflake, that will that may increase your chances that he'll show up. but i do want to ask you some fairly detailed questions about the schedule that is part of the subpoena, because i found a lot of interesting information in there, and i would love if you could expand on it, or offer any further intel, as you have it. in that request for documents that you are asking for from president trump, you repeatedly mentioned the encrypted messaging platforms, signal. do you have reason to believe the president or his aides were

communicating about the january 6th insurrection on signal? >> you know, i can't get into that particular question, in any more detail. we are interested in any communications platform that was being used, and certainly, that was one of multiple platforms being used by various people, you know, in and around the white house. >> what about items one, two, and four? the committee committee stipulates that it once communications where trump joined as an active or passive part spent. is there a suspicion that trump was on calls about election fraud? but did not reveal himself? is that what we can infer from that? >> well, remember, we are looking for information here. we are not providing information. >> sure. >> but it stands to reason that someone who was centrally and intimately engaged in this whole sequence of events, at some points will be speaking and giving orders, and at other points, we'll be listening and

possibly receiving information, as donald trump was, for a lot of the day on january 6th, as he simply watched, fascinated, in gripped by the unfolding violence at the capitol, and doing nothing, not calling any military or national security official, official, or national guard, or metropolitan police, capitol police. you know, once he set these events into motion, at that point, he was just a gleeful observer of what was taking place. >> but the information in terms of white house phone logs during the insurrection, one wonders whether he was a participant on other peoples phone calls. but i will let that matter live for a second, and ask about a subject that i think has enjoyed a lot of people. and by intrigued, i mean disturbed, which is the role of the secret service and all of this. in item 16, the committee asks for all documents involving contacts with, or efforts with to contact witnesses who appeared or who are expected to appear before the committee, including white house staff, staff for year 2020 campaign,

and who currently served in the united states secret service. the documents include any communications regarding directly or indirectly paying the legal fees for such witnesses, or finding, offering, discussing employment for any such witnesses. and then, any communications with deputy chief of staff, tony ornato, or any employee of the secret service with whom you interacted on january 6th, 2021. we know that trump was trying to prevent staffers like cassidy hutchinson from testifying, by offering to pay her legal fees. do you think he could be making the same offered to secret service agents? do you have anything that you can expand on by way of that? >> we don't know the complete answers to any of your excellent questions, which is why we are posing them to donald trump, who is the person who would have the answers to all of this questions. so, again, we are counting on his good faith, his willingness to abide by the rule of law, and the constitution, and to

come forward, and to testify, and to give us everything he knows about, each and every one of those questions. but, as you are suggesting, we believe that there have been various kinds of efforts to influence witnesses in different ways in this process. and we want to get to the bottom of all of that. >> i have to ask, because his name comes up, here and in other citations. anthony ornato, tony ornato, he is ruled both as a secret service agent, and as a member of trump's white house staff. why has he not been compelled to testify before the committee again? >> again, i cannot get into the specifics of individual witnesses, but i will tell you, generally speaking, that a number of the actions undertaken by the secret service have raised serious suspicions on the part of different members of the committee. and we intend to get to the bottom of that. that is a matter of utmost gravity. the secret service demands

complete professionalism, and not political loyalty to a particular individual. it is to operate as a professional office, within the federal government of the united states, and not as a praetorian guard and surrounding this or that political figure. >> congressman raskin, thank you for letting me ask you a lot of questions that you cannot dive all the answers to. we sincerely appreciate your time and thoughts this evening. >> we are all looking for the answers. thanks for having me. >> we certainly are. we have much more ahead tonight, as we wait to see if trump will comply with the january 6th committee subpoena, his allies, steve bannon, faces prison time for failing to comply with his own subpoena. despite that, steve bannon is focused on the upcoming midterm election, pushing a strategy that may very well push election workers over the edge. all of that is coming up. stay with us. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ (vo) you can be well-dressed.

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>> four months in prison, and a 6500 dollar fine, that is what longtime trump advisor steve bannon was sentenced to today, after refusing to cooperate with a subpoena from the january 6th committee last year. even without his testimony, the january 6th committee has been able to prove just how imminent bannon was about trump's plan

to clean the election was stolen, even before it happened. this was from the month before the election, in 2020. >> he is gonna declare victory. if that doesn't mean his winning, it's just gonna say he is winning. the democrats took more of our people vote. there is vote in mail. they were gonna have a natural disadvantage, and trump's gonna take advantage of that. he's gonna declare himself one or. so when you wake up wednesday morning, it's gonna be a firestorm. >> now, if you thought a coming jail term, and widespread public shame would cow stephen, then you don't know steve bannon, because this is what he had to say right after his sentencing today. >> on november 8th, the american people will raise judgment, and we will broom the biden administration's on the evening of the 8th of november. >> steve bannon has moved on from 2020 election fraud, and is now focused on 2022 election fraud. and this time, it doesn't just seem like he is in the know

about some larger black. the conspiracy shaping a. this is arizona tea party activist, daniel schultz, on bannon's show last year. for more than a decades, schultz has been preaching the precinct strategy that has never been taken off. then charles, he blocked -- having him on his show over and over again. the precinct strategy is pretty simple. the idea is to get as many election deniers as possible, to become the worker of the american election system, precinct officers. basically take election deniers and make them election administrators. last year, after bannon started promoting this strategy, pro republican, contacted republican leaders in 65 counties and key states. which one of them reported an unusual increase in sign ups, since bannon's campaign began. check out maricopa county in arizona. the red line here is republicans signing up to be precinct committee members. and you can see a huge surge

right after steve bannon made a call to action. that is all the while democratic synapse basically state flat. but don't worry, if you are a 2020 election denier, who doesn't want to actually administer elections, bannon has also been promoting another way to get involved. this is clear that mitchell, one of former president trump's lawyers, in his effort to overturn the 2020 election. she appeared on bannon's while the program this week, and bannon has had her on a lot, to promote and recruit for what mitchell is describing as a citizens detective agency. you can leave your magnifying glass at home,. mitchell claims to have trained more than 20,000 people in election law, so they can observe, document, and report whatever they believe was fraud. as bennett puts it, the plan is to, quote, adjudicate every battle. so, an army election denying poll workers, plus an army of election denying poll watchers, what can go wrong? earlier this week, i sat down with one of the people who will

have to deal with all of this, firsthand. his name is don melas, and he's the republican chair of the bipartisan election commission in the battleground state of wisconsin. don willis was appointed to that position after his predecessor abruptly resigned earlier this year, citing the avalanche of criticism he got for simply stating that donald trump lost the 2020 election. needless to say, don notice has his work cut out for him. >> election day is less than a month out, and it sounds like you are expecting a record number of election observers. >> yes, i think that's true. both parties, from my understanding, will have a record number of election observers. and will probably have a record number of partisan affiliated poll workers. >> what could go wrong? i mean, how do you feel about that? >> i think it's a good thing to have observers. i know many good people who are organizing this. i have respect for them. i think that they understand

that having problems at the polls is not gonna benefit anyone. so, i can't speak for everyone. i can't tell you that there won't be problems, but i do think that having more observers is probably a good thing, the like it's always good. why >> do you think people think their problems? >> since 2016, the confidence and result have diminished. in 2016, when i was on the commission the last time, i was along with the commissioners, claiming that the election was not secure, that there was tampering with the tabulating machines, things like that. that was rejected by the courts. outside of wisconsin, 2018, we had stacey abrams challenging the result there. and obviously, donald trump challenging the result in 2020. so, i think on both sides, you have a great deal of skepticism, as to the legitimacy of elections, at a time in which we have the ability of the safest -- elections have the

most confidence. this is frustrating, but i think it's gonna be primarily a function of external forces. >> i mean, we were talking with some of the experts that worked on the elections committee to do an overhaul, or sort of get an overview of security, in terms of wisconsin elections. and they said it's asymmetrical. it's not even a question which party is fueling this, the republican party, it's donald trump, and it's a slate of candidates that appear on races across the country, who are saying that elections can be fraudulent. you have a gubernatorial candidate in arizona who is already saying that the election may be stolen. you have the stop the steal movement events on january 6th. do really think it's both sides that are contributing to this? >> i think, historically, again, if you wanna talk about what's going on right now, certainly, the republicans have been making more noise about it. but again, i look at this with a historical perspective. you can go back six years, it wasn't the republicans, it was the democrats who are saying that. and, again, i think that people -- >> you think, just to be clear, you think that hillary clinton

is comparable to what the stop the steal movement is? sorry, maybe you could clarify when you say six years ago? >> six years ago, i was saying there were many people on the left, who believed that hillary clinton was the legitimate winner of the election. and in 2020, certainly, donald trump and many republicans claim that he was the legitimate winner. i am not saying that you can equate everything that is going on, i'm just saying that from both sides, and all hands on political spectrum there has been skepticism, unhealthy skepticism about the legitimacy of elections. i think most of the skepticism comes from the republican party, on the conservative side. and i guess, the republican from -- the republican party involves people from a wide array of views. and certainly, you certainly have greatest skepticism on republicans about the legitimacy of the 2020 election that people are independents or democrats. that is what the polls show. >> more of my interview with

wisconsin election commission chair don millis, up next. i asked him who he thinks won the 2020 presidential election. stay with us for his answer. is answer. family is just very important. she's my sister and we depend on each other a lot. she's the rock of the family. she's the person who holds everything together. it's a battle, you know. i'm going to be there. keytruda and chemotherapy meant treating my cancer with two different types of medicine. in a clinical trial, keytruda and chemotherapy was proven to help people

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december 22nd -- hey, i need to talk to you about a plan we are developing on how to vote on the electoral college votes on january six. i need a senator. >> hey, or work shopping a plan to subvert democracy, call me. -- to go along with trump's big lies that he actually won. left lauren she won't announce that she would challenge the results but then decided to withdraw her objection after a mob attacked the capitol on january six. those text make clear that after the 2020 vote, republican election officials, republicans everywhere, had a choice to make. go along with trump's allies are set the record straight. except that joe biden won, except the electoral count, certify the election. amazingly, awfully, that pressure, that decision has not gone away, and republican election officials who are not elected ice, the ones to an office, they are today forced to occupy the strange in between space where they play footsie with conspiracy theories but don't fully

endorse them. man, it's exhausting and sort of impossible. at least, that's what i gathered as a continued to speak with wisconsin electric -- chair, don melas. >> the president got recounts in states across the country. there was litigation where no fraud was found, and yet to this day, he and members of the party said that the election was stolen. the bid for transparency is inevitably a good thing for democracy, but in terms of standing these cries that the elections were stolen and somehow the system is rigged, it does not seem to make a difference. >> i think we could do a better job on talking about -- election officials in general, but doing what we do to make sure that elections are fair and open and honest. i cannot account for every conspiracy theory out there. we have a social media and internet that allows for unsubstantiated claims --

covid cures, things to make your hair look better. you can't stop some of the conspiracy theories. we can certainly go out there and provide more information and uncover some of these -- you can call them hoaxes, you can call them claimed that have not much substance behind them. >> it's not just stuff floating on the internet. it's part of a concerted campaign to delegitimized election results that certain candidates not like. it's more of a coordinated and explicit strategy than just paid for ads on websites. a lot of it is coming from the right wing. as a republican in charge of the elections, chair of the election commission, does appreciate you that you are tasked with solving problems, in large part created by members of your own party? >> i get frustrated when people before the election occurs,

they pronounce, well if i don't win, it's rigged. i am willing to entertain any complaint that has some evidence behind it. i am a trial lawyer. you see the evidence, to see the documents, that's how you resolve things, that's all courts resolve -- that's why you have seen the courts have not sanctioned any other complaints filed in 2020. the supreme court of wisconsin, they denied president trump's claims here. now, were their problems with the 2020 election? >> what do you think the problems were? why do you even say that there are problems with the election, if you don't think that they're problematic? >> what i talk about problems is that there certainly are things that happened that have given fuel to the argument that the election would have been different. >> but, you know, as a republican that is chair of the commission, wouldn't it be

better to not even suggest, not even opened the door that there are problems? >> i did not think i did, but maybe i misspoke. >> i think when people hear you say that there were problems with the 2020 election, that's an opportunity to say, you see, we can't fully cosign on what happened. >> there are problems on a small scale with every election. the issue is, do the problems change the result? i don't want to discount the fact that mistakes were made. at least mistakes in the eye of the supreme court. when i came on the commission in june this year, every reporter asked me, who won? >> what did you say? >> i set, i want to talk about the future, i don't want to talk about that. >> can you say who won? >> the courts of set -- >> who do you think one? you're the commissioner. >> i did not sign the canvas. i will tell you this, i think that it's highly unlikely that donald trump had more votes, even if, say, the drop boxes

were not -- again, show me the proof. i have not seen evidence that there were more ballots cast for trump than biden. >> does that mean you think joe biden won? >> i run an administrative agency, i fall with the courts, the courts say biden won. that's all i can go on. you hear -- >> you know the way you are saying this is not instilling a great deal of confidence in the belief that he won. you know, i did not see any evidence otherwise, the courts as he won, so he won, is not the same as saying, joe biden won the election. which in some people's minds, is what needs to be set, especially to a lot of republican skeptics. >> -- this last june, i was asked to chair the commission. all i know is what i have learned since i have been on the commission, and i learned about a lot of different points mid. none of those would give rise -- even if they were true, they

would not show a difference in the election results. i don't know how one can argue that donald trump actually won. >> you ever just want to say republicans out there spouting conspiracy nonsense, cut it out, stop it? >> i don't think we can. we can't see -- the idea is to deny the conspiracy theorists with the few, the support. again, i am not sure that i will be successful. >> sounds sisyphean to me. >> it is. i was paying attention when my predecessor -- >> your predecessor who said full stop, joe biden won the election. >> i sort of set, i told my wife, you know, i bet they will ask me. again, let's put it this way, i am 63 years old, i can try to do something at the end of my career that even helps, i'm sure some of the democratic

members of the commission will not think it's helping, i don't know, but i am trying, and it's not been enviable. it's interesting, i have gotten my share of course -- >> but why do you get the? why should you have to get that? >> i should not have to get it. >> why should a 60-year-old clerks ruled that wisconsin has to take de-escalation training? why are we here? >> they should not have to do that. again, i can't stop every night from making threats like that. we can try to lower the temperature. >> you think the temperature is getting lower? it feels like it's getting warmer. >> we're a month -- >> 25 days. >> we're 25 days from election. the temperature is lower this time, just because the rhetoric of the election. i think that other the election, i am hoping that the temperature will go down. >> ahead of a presidential run?

>> yeah, i don't know. it's one of those things that, i certainly have my -- i know how i would like the election to come out in the fall, i do hope that is not close. >> what are you worried about when you think about november, when you think about 2024? >> what i care about our candidates who can look and accept a feat. we need people who can except defeat. if it had been a close election, and it was worth every count, absolutely, there's a reason why a candidate who has lost the unofficial count is less than 1%, the standard and wisconsin, i have no problem is much to ask for a recount. that's within the rights, but at the end of the day, we have to accept it. that goes for both sides. i think it's the most important thing. that's what we need.

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spectacularly. robert lee woods, won at the 20 people arrested in the scheme, today, a miami judge dismissed charges against him on jurisdictional grounds. that judge found that in order for the office to bring these charges, the possible crime, in this case, had to have happened in more than one place in florida. in other words, the judge ruled that desantis's prosecutors got the court system roe. and it appears a precedent has been set. mr. wood's attorney says he is already shared his motion dismiss i'm grounds of jurisdiction would attorneys representing the other 19 people accused of voter fraud, but that in the case and comes at a price. the governor's message to ex felons has been delivered, namely, but at your peril. in the end, that's the point. that does it for us tonight, rachel will be back on monday. i'll see you again on tuesday, and now with 18 days to go in the election, it's time for the kornacki come down with steve kornacki. kornacki