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part effort to overthrow the 2020 election. we will be getting to that, shortly. but, first, do you remember this photo? what you are looking at is a highly sensitive satellite photo showing an explosion at an iranian space center. this photo from an intelligence briefing was tweeted out to the world in august 2019, by none other than president trump. the fact that he gets so rattled intelligence officials and its soon led to internet sleuths being able to identify the u.s. spy satellite that took the photo. there is something about iran that has always fascinated the former president. then new york times reported earlier this year how trump, who withdrew the u.s. from the iran nuclear deal, how we took little interest in most stuff that he was briefed on. for one major exception, iran. quote, trump almost took always great interest in military intelligence briefings about iran, squeezing defense officials about contingency plans for a war with the country, and asking detailed

questions about secret operations to counter iran in the middle east. trump's handling of classified intelligence is a topic of huge concern, given the justice department's investigation into hidden white house records at trump's florida beach club. and now, we know quite a bit about trump's efforts destruct officials from receiving, which reading those documents. the question of what exactly was in those documents, well, that has been more elusive. in august, a team of washington post reporters, led by devlin barrett, published a bombshell. fbi agents were looking for, among other things, documents related to nuclear weapons. the next month, the post confirmed that it document relating to a foreign government's nuclear capabilities was indeed found at mar-a-lago during the fbi search. and now, today, we got another bombshell from devlin barrett, again, one that has been since confirmed by nbc news. here's the headline. mar-a-lago classified papers held u.s. equates about iran and china.

quote, some of the classified documents were covered by the fbi from donald trump's mar-a-lago home, included highly sensitive intelligence regarding iran and china, according to people familiar with the matter. if shared with others, the people said, such information could explode expose intelligence gathering methods for the united states wants to keep hidden from the world. why was trump keeping highly sensitive intelligence about iran and china at mar-a-lago? why take those classified white house records all the way to palm beach? but the post adds this chilling detail, not confirmed by nbc news, at least one of the documents seized by the fbi describes iran's missile program. and some of these documents are, quote, considered among the most sensitive, the fbi has recovered, to date, in its investigation of trump. the former president put out a statement today, calling the investigation, a document hoax, and adding at the end, quote, who knows what nara and the fbi plant into documents or subtract from documents.

we will never know, will we? we're not talking about trump taking home some innocent memorabilia here. we are talking about documents relating to iran's missile program, which the u.s. keeps a very close eye on. we are not the only country keeping a very close eye on iran's missile program. there are a lot of people who might be potentially interested in iran's nuclear program, and its missile program, including its enemies, like the saudis, who are sworn enemies of the iranians, also the emiratis. and iran's allies, like putin who's currently using iranian drones to target kyiv and kill ukrainian civilians. and other words, this is not just information that the u.s. is interested in, a lot of people are interested in, which brings me back to a few essential questions, why would trump remove these from the white house, and keep them, and deny having them repeatedly? and second, does the sensitivity of these documents, combined with the president well-documented obstruction, does that all increase the chances that the doj will seek

to prosecute the former president? joining us now is the reporter who broke the story, devlin barrett, who covers national security and law enforcement for the washington post. devlin, thank you for joining us tonight. can i first ask you about the timing on all of this? do we have a sense of where in the back and forth between trump and the doj these documents first came to light? was it the first tranche, the second tranche, or the third time the fbi went into mar-a-lago? >> so, there are still blanks in the specifics of that but what i can tell you is that some of these most sensitive documents were recovered in the search on august 8th. and one of the ways in which that complicated this investigation was that the investigators who are working this case, initially were not authorized to read some of the very documents that they were investigating. and they had to get special clearances, because some of this stuff was so restricted, that only a cabinet level, or near cabinet level official

could authorize anyone else in the government to review it. >> i am sort of focused on the timing here, because the doj had been, and nara, had been asking trump for the return of all these white house documents. and at points in the course of the last, year trump had gone through these documents, purportedly, himself, and given back at each stage what he said was everything. can we assume that donald trump knew he was in possession of these documents by the time they were returned to the doj? >> well, that's one of the key questions that investigators are working to put together all the pieces of. obviously, trump has issued a lot of denials, and a lot of different directions, frankly. and so, one of the things investigators are trying to put together is, what did he know, and what did he do, as the government demands for this became more and more urgent? >> did the fbi -- do have a sense of whether the

fbi knew these documents were missing? i mean, i think one of the most infamous pieces of information we have gotten in all of this are the empty classified and top secret folders. do we have a sense that this is one of the documents from those empty folders? do the fbi actually know that some important information was missing? or did they only find out about it once they got it back from mar-a-lago? >> i am told they did not know. it's not, you know, like a library book checkout system. when it comes to the president of the united states. and so, it was, when they first got -- when they first executed the search, and when they first went through it, they were seeing these things for the first time. you know, when they sent the first subpoena, that list just a bunch of different categories, pretty much every major category of classified intelligence, because they are trying to recover the entire universe of classified intelligence, including markings for nuclear weapons documents. and so, you can see from that that they are casting a very

wide net, because they are really unsure what is there. >> devlin, to the degree that you can talk about this and know, what was the nature of this classified material? can you give us any sense of what the category of information we are talking about here? >> so, i think what is notable is that a bunch of these documents described intelligence gathering activities aimed at china, and that is important for a couple of reasons. one, that is some of the most secretive work the intelligence, the u.s. intelligence community does. and it's one of the most difficult works. if you remember, there had been, in recent years, instances where that u.s.'s network of informants of people who helped them in china were sort of pulled apart, and taken down. and so, that area is a very difficult area to gather intelligence in. so, the notion that this type

of secret government, government secret, was sitting in a, you know, basement, office, far away from the lock and peace of security government, where it's supposed to be. it's alarming to officials. >> yeah, we pulled the headline where there is one piece about iran, and there's one recently, effectively, the chinese, i believe, systematically dismantled cia spying operations, and systematically dismantled, we are talking about killing, imprisoning, i think the estimate is more than a dozen sources over two years. that is all, especially relevant, given china's importance and the geopolitical landscape. in terms of the iranian information, we mentioned nuclear capabilities, missile systems. i was speaking with a former national security official who suggested that missile systems are important because if iran is trying to put a nuclear warhead on a ballistic missile, people need to know about that, and people will want to know about it. can you talk a little bit more about that? >> yeah, and i think, everything you said is right. i do want to be clear.

what we have reported, the nuclear detail, and the missile document that we talked about, i actually don't know yet whether those are the same things, whether we are talking about the same thing. i haven't been able to figure out yet when we talk about that military defenses document, are we talking about iran? are we talking about china? are we talking about some other country? we're still working on reporting that out. but obviously, to your point, everything about the iran missile program is sensitive and fraud, and has major implications, both for security and diplomacy. >> is there a working theory for why trump had all of this? >> you know, i think that is still a question of that, investigators are trying very hard to answer. i think one of the things that is sort of amazing about this entire process is there is a universe in which, if all of this stuff had been returned when asked, or even of all this stuff had been returned one demanded by a subpoena, we really would not be here.

we really would not be necessarily at a criminal investigative stage right now. so, i think it is hard to look inside some of it necessarily know exactly what they want, what they think but it's a major question, and it's a very important one for investigators to solve. >> presumably, they might be able to look into more than trump's heart, perhaps, there is some kind of communication that exist somewhere, that explains what exactly he was doing, squirreling away chinese and iranian intelligence at a speech club. do you think the sensitivity of these documents, combined with the obstruction in plain view, increases the likelihood that the doj is gonna serve and indictment here? >> so, to that question, i spoke to a senior justice department lawyer today who said that the extreme sensitivity of these documents is exactly the kind of thing that would be considered an aggregating factors to prosecutors considering a charge, meaning accounts against him, it is a mark

against him if, as they consider whether to file charges in this case. >> devlin barrett, scoop score,, bombshells going on. reporter at the washington post, covering national security and law enforcement, thank you for making the time tonight, devlin. really appreciate, it thanks for the great reporting. >> thanks for having me. >> we have a lot more to get to tonight. with the midterm elections, literally, weeks away, what should we expect from republican election officials who have to run a fair vote, but also stay loyal to there parties election conspiracists? and, donald trump's ally, former aide, steve bannon, has been sentenced to prison for defying a subpoena from the general six committee. now that the committee has subpoenaed the former president for his testimony, will donald trump face the same fate? congressman jamie raskin, member of that committee, joins me, coming up next. stay with us. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪♪ whenever heartburn strikes

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>> okay, here is how it starts. quote, dear president trump, the united states house of representatives resolution 503 instructs the select committee to investigate the facts, circumstances, and causes for january 6th attack, and issues relating to the peaceful transfer of power. we have assembled overwhelming evidence, including from dozens of your former appointees and staff, the two, personally, orchestrated and oversaw a multi part effort to overturn

the 2020 presidential election, and to obstruct the peaceful transition of power. the january 6th committee has now made good on its promise to officially subpoena former president trump for his role in the january 6th attack, and the subpoena does not pull any punches. it goes on to tell the former president, you were at the center of the first and only effort by any u.s. president, to overturn an election, and obstruct the peaceful transition of power, ultimately culminating in a bloody attack on our own capitol, and on congress itself. the evidence demonstrates that you knew this activity was illegal and unconstitutional, and also knew that your assertions of fraud were false. but to be clear, even if you now claim that you actually believed your own false election claims, that is not a defense. you are subjective belief could not render this conduct justified, excusable, or illegal. legal. and in its subpoena, the committee has set a date for when they want trump to appeal, and it's november 14th, less

than three weeks from today, and just six days after the midterm elections. they've also ordered trump to turn over a wide array of documents by november 4th, which is just four days before the midterms. trump's lawyers responded to a request for comment by nbc news, saying in part, as with any similar matter, we will review and analyze it, and we will respond as appropriate to this unprecedented action. there's a lot to unpack here, and we have just the person to ask. joining us now is maryland congressman and member of the january 6th committee, jamie raskin. congressman, thanks for making the time to be here tonight. let me first just get started and ask you a question, i think a lot of folks are wondering, how did you decide on the timing? i believe the first part of this, the documents are called for before the elections, november 4th, and testimony is afterwards, november 14th. can you enlighten us as to how you chose those dates? >> thanks for having me.

i imagine that each member of the committee had his or her own reasons for going along with these dates. but november 4th gives the former president certainly enough time to gather all of the documentary evidence we are looking for, which is clearly in his possession. he is clearly somebody who knows how to store documents, and this would give him a chance to turn that in. and it will give us a chance to go through those documents, and prepare for our questioning ten days later. i think i support that timing because we want to make it clear that this is not about getting him in to testify right before the election, right after the election but, it's just great, and we don't want to get caught up with the politics of that. but of course, we need to act swiftly, because we are nearing the end of this congress, and at that point, you know, it's like cinderella's gown.

we lose our authority when this congress is over. >> do you expect that he is going to comment testify? i mean there are reports that he'll testify, if he can do so live. there are reports that the committee is considering that. we have been down this road before where donald trump says, oh, yes, sure, i will absolutely testify, aka, the mueller saga. and it never happens. what is your over render that on him actually testifying before the committee? >> i mean, one of the pathologies of our time is that before we even look at what a reasonable law-abiding former president will do, we immediately get pulled into donald trump's psyche. and, you know, i hesitate to go there. but i will tell you that, we have talked to more than 1000 people, the overwhelming majority of people with called, including members of former president trump's cabinet, members of his innermost white house staff, members of his family have come forward to

tell us the truth. and to talk to the committee either informally, or mostly under oath. and the idea that somebody would ascend the highest office in the land, the president of the united states, and then, refused to testify about the worst domestic violent insurrection and attack on the u.s. capitol in our history is astounding. one would think that he would respect the rule of law enough to come in. one would think that you'd understand it's a patriotic duty to do so. and at the very least, somebody who is willing to send other people into battle, to stop the steal on the patently false grounds that the election was stolen, certainly should not be so much of a snowflake, as not even to come forward to state his own rationale for why he did that, and why he continues to claim against all the

evidence that the election was stolen from him. >> if you keep calling him a snowflake, that will that may increase your chances that he'll show up. but i do want to ask you some fairly detailed questions about the schedule that is part of the subpoena, because i found a lot of interesting information in there, and i would love if you could expand on it, or offer any further intel, as you have it. in that request for documents that you are asking for from president trump, you repeatedly mentioned the encrypted messaging platform, signal. do you have reason to believe the president or his aides were communicating about the january 6th insurrection on signal? >> you know, i can't get into that particular question, in any more detail. we are interested in any communications platform that was being used, and certainly, that was one of multiple platforms being used by various people, you know, in and around the white house. >> what about items one, two, and four? the committee committee stipulates that it once communications where trump joined as an active or passive

part spent. participant. is there a suspicion that trump was on calls about election fraud? but did not reveal himself? is that what we can infer from that? >> well, remember, we are looking for information here. we are not providing information. >> sure. >> but it stands to reason that someone who was centrally and intimately engaged in this whole sequence of events, at some points will be speaking and giving orders, and at other points, will be listening and possibly receiving information, as donald trump was, for a lot of the day on january 6th, as he simply watched, fascinated, in gripped by the unfolding violence at the capitol, and doing nothing, not calling any military or national security official, official, or national guard, or metropolitan police, capitol police. you know, once he set these events into motion, at that point, he was just a gleeful observer of what was taking

place. >> but the information in terms -- white house phone logs during the insurrection, one wonders whether he was a passive participant on other peoples phone calls. but i will let that matter lie for second and ask about a subject that i think has enjoyed a lot of people. and by intrigued, i mean disturbed, which is the role of the secret service and all of this. in item 16, the committee asks for all documents involving contacts with, or efforts with to contact witnesses who appeared or who are expected to appear before the committee, including white house staff, staff for year 2020 campaign, and who currently served in the united states secret service. the documents include any communications regarding directly or indirectly paying the legal fees for such witnesses, or finding, offering, discussing employment for any such witnesses. and then, any communications with deputy chief of staff, tony ornato, or any employee of the secret service with whom you interacted on january 6th, 2021. we know that trump was trying

to prevent staffers like cassidy hutchinson from testifying, by offering to pay her legal fees. do you think he could be making the same offered to secret service agents? do you have anything that you can expand on by way of that? >> we don't know the complete answers to any of your excellent questions, which is why we are posing them to donald trump, who is the person who would have the answers to all of this those questions. so, again, we are counting on his good faith, his willingness to abide by the rule of law, and the constitution, and to come forward, and to testify, and to give us everything he knows about, each and every one of those questions. but, as you are suggesting, we believe that there have been various kinds of efforts to influence witnesses in different ways in this process. and we want to get to the bottom of all of that. >> i have to ask, because his name comes up, here and in other citations. anthony ornato, tony ornato, he

is ruled both as a secret service agent, and as a member of trump's white house staff. why has he not been compelled to testify before the committee again? >> again, i cannot get into the specifics of individual witnesses, but i will tell you, generally speaking, that a number of the actions undertaken by the secret service have raised serious suspicions on the part of different members of the committee. and we intend to get to the bottom of that. that is a matter of utmost gravity. the secret service demands complete professionalism, and not political loyalty to a particular individual. it is to operate as a professional office, within the federal government of the united states, and not as a praetorian guard and surrounding this or that political figure. >> congressman raskin, thank you for letting me ask you a lot of questions that you

cannot divulge the answers to. we sincerely appreciate your time and thoughts this evening. >> we are all looking for the answers. thanks for having me. >> we certainly are. we have much more ahead tonight, as we wait to see if trump will comply with the january 6th committee subpoena, his allies, steve bannon, faces prison time for failing to comply with his own subpoena. despite that, steve bannon is focused on the upcoming midterm election, pushing a strategy that may very well push election workers over the edge. all of that is coming up. stay with us. ♪ ♪ ♪ some days, it felt like asthma was holding me back. but asthma has taken enough. so i go triple... with trelegy. with 3 medicines in 1 inhaler,... it's the only once-daily treatment for adults

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>> four months in prison, and a 6500 dollar fine, that is what longtime trump advisor steve bannon was sentenced to today, after refusing to cooperate with a subpoena from the january 6th committee last year. even without his testimony, the january 6th committee has been able to prove just how imminent bannon was about trump's plan to clean the election was stolen, even before it happened. this was from the month before the election, in 2020. >> he is gonna declare victory. if that doesn't mean he is winning, it's just gonna say he is winning. the democrats took more of our people vote. that count. there's a vote in mail they were gonna have a natural disadvantage, and trump's gonna take advantage of that. he's gonna declare himself winner. so when you wake up wednesday morning, it's gonna be a firestorm. >> now, if you thought a coming

jail term, and widespread public shame would cow steve bannon, then you don't know steve bannon, because this is what he had to say right after his sentencing today. >> on november 8th, the american people will raise judgment, and we will broom the biden administration's on the evening of the 8th of november. >> steve bannon has moved on from 2020 election fraud, and is now focused on 2022 election fraud. and this time, it doesn't just seem like he is in the know about some larger the conspiracy shaping -- this is arizona tea party activist, daniel schultz, on bannon's show last year. for more than a decades, schultz has been preaching the precinct strategy that has never been taken off. then, he blocked -- having him on his show over and over again. the precinct strategy is pretty simple. the idea is to get as many election deniers as possible, to become the worker of the

american election system, precinct officers. basically take election deniers and make them election administrators. last year, after bannon started promoting this strategy, pro republican, contacted republican leaders in 65 counties and key states. 45th one of them reported and unusual increase in sign ups, since bannon's campaign began. check out maricopa county in arizona. the red line here is republicans signing up to be precinct committee members. and you can see a huge surge right after steve bannon made a call to action. that is all the while democratic sign up space ugly stay flat but don't worry, if you are a 2020 election denier, who doesn't want to actually administer elections, bannon has also been promoting another way to get involved. this is cleanup mitchell, one of former president trump's lawyers, in his effort to overturn the 2020 election. she appeared on bannon's war room program this week, and bannon has had her on a lot, to

promote and recruit for what mitchell is describing as a citizens detective agency. you can leave your magnifying glass at home. mitchell claims to have trained more than 20,000 people in election law, so they can observe, document, and report whatever they believe was fraud. as bennett puts it, the plan is to, quote, adjudicate every battle. so, an army election denying poll workers, plus an army of election denying poll watchers, what can go wrong? earlier this week, i sat down with one of the people who will have to deal with all of this, firsthand. his name is don millis, and he's the republican chair of the bipartisan election commission in the battleground state of wisconsin. don millis was appointed to that position after his predecessor abruptly resigned earlier this year, citing the avalanche of criticism he got for simply stating that donald trump lost the 2020 election. needless to say, don notice has his work cut out for him.

>> election day is less than a month out, and it sounds like you are expecting a record number of election observers. >> yes, i think that's true. both parties, from my understanding, will have a record number of election observers. and will probably have a record number of partisan affiliated poll workers. >> what could go wrong? i mean, how do you feel about that? >> i think it's a good thing to have observers. i know many good people who are organizing this. i have respect for them. i think that they understand that having problems at the polls is not gonna benefit anyone. so, i can't speak for everyone. i can't tell you that there won't be problems, but i do think that having more observers is probably a good thing, the like it's always good. >> why do you think people think their problems? >> since 2016, the confidence and results have diminished in 2016, when i was -- the last time, i was, along

with the, commissioner, -- jill stein claiming that the election was not secure, that there was tampering with the tabulating machines, things like that. that was rejected by the courts. outside of wisconsin, 2018, we had stacey abrams challenging the result there. and obviously, donald trump challenging the result in 2020. so, i think on both sides, you have a great deal of skepticism, as to the legitimacy of elections, at a time in which we have the ability of the safest -- elections have the most confidence. this is frustrating, but i think it's gonna be primarily a function of external forces. >> i mean, we were talking with some of the experts that worked on the elections committee to do an overhaul, or sort of get an overview of security, in terms of wisconsin elections. and they said it's asymmetrical. it's not even a question which party is fueling this, the republican party, it's donald trump, and it's a slate of candidates that appear on races across the country, who are saying that elections can be

fraudulent. you have a gubernatorial candidate in arizona who is already saying that the election may be stolen. you have the stop the steal movement events on january 6th. do really think it's both sides that are contributing to this? >> i think, historically, again, if you wanna talk about what's going on right now, certainly, the republicans have been making more noise about it. but again, i look at this with a historical perspective. you can go back six years, it wasn't the republicans, it was the democrats who are saying that. and, again, i think that people -- >> you think, just to be clear, you think that hillary clinton is comparable to what the stop the steal movement is? sorry, maybe you could clarify when you say six years ago? >> six years ago, i was saying there were many people on the left, who believed that hillary clinton was the legitimate winner of the election. and in 2020, certainly, donald trump and many republicans believe he was the legitimate winner. i am not saying that you can equate everything that is going on, i'm just saying that from both sides, and all hands on political spectrum there has been skepticism, unhealthy

skepticism about the legitimacy of elections. i know right now, i think most of the skepticism comes from the republican party, on the conservative side. and i guess, the republican from -- the republican party involves people from a wide array of views. and certainly, you certainly have greatest skepticism on republicans about the legitimacy of the 2020 election that people are independents or democrats. that is what the polls show. >> more of my interview with wisconsin election commission chair don millis, up next. i asked him who he thinks won the 2020 presidential election. stay with us for his answer. is farwith her cholesterol. taken with a statin, leqvio can lower bad cholesterol by over 50% and keep it low with two doses a year. side effects were injection site reaction, joint pain, urinary tract infection, diarrhea, chest cold, pain in legs or arms, and shortness of breath. with leqvio, lowering cholesterol

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with new flonase headache and allergy relief! two pills relieve allergy headache pain? and the congestion that causes it! flonase headache and allergy relief. psst! psst! all good! the atlanta journal-constitution this week published a bunch of text they obtained from florida republican senator kelly loeffler's iphone. included with this message from congresswoman marjorie taylor greene to lafleur on december 2nd, 2020. hey, i need to talk you through about a plan where developing on how to vote on the electoral college votes on january six. i need a senator. >> hey, or work shopping a plan to subvert democracy, call me. -- to go along with trump's big lies that he actually won. left lauren she won't announce -- that actually he won. lafleur eventually announced that she would challenge the results. but then decided to withdraw her objection. -- those text made clear that after the.

-- republicans everywhere had a choice to make. go along with trump's lies or set the record straight. except that joe biden won, accept the electoral count, certify the election. and amazingly, awfully, that pressure, that decision, has not gone away. republican election officials who are not election and i are -- the ones who are still in office at least -- they are today forced to occupy this strange in between space, where they play footsie with conspiracy theories but don't fully endorse them. man, it's exhausting and sort of impossible. at least, that's what i gathered as a continued to speak with wisconsin electric election commissions chair, don millis. >> the president got recounts in states across the country. there was litigation where no fraud was found, and yet to this day, he and members of the party said that the inevitably a good thing for democracy, right? >> sure.

>> and in terms of his crimes that elections were stolen and somehow -- it doesn't seem to make a difference. >> i think we could do a better job in talking about washington -- to make sure that the elections are fair and open and honest. i can't account for every conspiracy theory out there. again we, have a social media and an internet that allows for unsubstantiated claims about ivermectin, about covid, about -- you know, things that make your hair look better. you can't stop some conspiracy theory. but we can certainly go out there and provide more information and uncovered some of these -- which, you can call it hoaxes, you can call them claims that have not much substance by them. >> it's not just a floating on the internet it's part of a concerted campaign to delegitimized election results

that certain candidates don't like it is more coordinated and it's more of an explicit strategy and then just, you know, sort of paid for ads on websites. and a lot of it is coming from the right wing as a republican, who is in charge of the election, who is chair of the elections commission, does it for a straight to you that you are tasked with solving problems in large part created by members of your own party? >> i get frustrated when people, before the election occurs, will go out and announce, we'll, if i don't win -- >> yes -- >> i've been willing to entertain any complaint that has some evidence behind it. i'm a trial lawyer. -- that's what drives me. that's how we resolve differences. that's how courts resolve differences and so that's why i think the courts have not -- the sanction and the complaints that were filed in 2020 -- wisconsin -- the supreme court, they denied

president trump's claims there. were there problems with the 2020 election? >> why do you think the problems were? why do you think -- even say there are problems if you yourself don't think they're that problematic? >> -- there are certainly things that happened that have been -- the argument -- >> sure -- >> that -- would have been different >> but as a republican who is sure of the commission wouldn't it be better to not even suggest -- like, not even opened the door to the idea that there are problems? >> i didn't think i did i think when -- >> i think what people hear you say, there are problems with the 2020 election, that's an opportunity to say, you see? we can't police cosign. >> their problems on a small scale in every election. -- i don't want to discount the fact that mistakes were made. i think that, at least, mistakes, wisconsin supreme

court. when i came on the commission in june of this year, every reporter asked me, who want to 20? 20 >> what did you say i said, i don't want to -- >> can you say he won? the courts have said. >> who do you think one? you are the commissioner. >> i didn't sign the canvas. i will tell you this. i think it's highly unlikely that donald trump had more votes, even if, say, the drop boxes were not -- again, show me the proof. i have not seen evidence that there were more ballots cast for trump than biden. >> does that mean you think joe biden won? >> i run an administrative agency, i fall with the courts, the courts say biden won. that's all i can go on. you hear -- >> you know the way you are saying this is not instilling a great deal of confidence in the saying, i don't know, i didn't

see any evidence, the court said he won, so he won, it's not the same as saying joe biden won the election. which in some people's minds, is what needs to be set, especially to a lot of republican skeptics. >> -- i suppose that's true. last year now was asked to cheer the commissions and going back into it. all i know is what i have learned since i've been on the commission and i learned about a lot of different complaints that have been made. >> sure. none of those would give rise, even if they were true -- they wouldn't show a difference in the election results. so, i don't know how one could argue that donald trump actually won. >> do you ever just want to say to republicans who are out there spreading conspiracy nonsense, cut it out? like, stop it? >> i don't think we can. you would dissatisfied some. the idea is to deny the conspiracy theorists the fuel. that i support. again, i'm not sure i'm going to be successful.

>> it sounds sisyphean to me. -- >> predecessor is i. and >> yeah. your predecessor who said, full stop, joe biden won the election. >> i sort of said, i told my wife -- you know, i bet they will ask me. again, let's put it this way, i am 63 years old, i can try to do something at the end of my career that even helps, i'm sure some of the democratic members of the commission will not think it's helping, i don't know, but i am trying, and it's not been enviable. it's interesting, i have got my share of cole's -- >> but why do you get? that why should you have to get that? or should 60 old clerks in wisconsin have to take de-escalation training? why are we here? >> they should not have to do that. again, i can't stop every not for making threats like that.

we can try to lower the temperature. and that's what we are trying to do. >> you think the temperature is getting lower? it feels like it's getting warmer. >> we're a month -- what is it -- >> 25 days. >> we're 25 days from election. the temperature is lower this time, just because the rhetoric of the election. i think that other the election, i am hoping that the temperature will go down. >> ahead of a presidential run? >> yeah, i don't know. it's one of those things that, i certainly have my -- i know how i would like the election to come out in the fall, 25 days. if you hope it's not close. >> what are you worried about when you think about november, when you think about 2024? >> what i care about our candidates who can look and accept a feat. defeat. we need people who can except defeat. if it had been a close election,

and it was worth every count, absolutely, there's a reason why a candidate who has lost the unofficial count is less than 1%, the standard and wisconsin, i have no problem is much to ask for a recount. that's within the rights, but at the end of the day, we have to accept it. that goes for both sides. i think it's the most important thing. that's what we need. if leaders lead that way, i am not saying everyone will agree, but more people will agree. >> election day is just 18 days away. we'll be right back. mercedes-benz is turning electric... completely on its head. bringing legendary design... and state-of-the-art technology... to a fully-electric suv. the all-new, all-electric eqb from mercedes-benz.

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common side effects were diarrhea, nausea, and headache. if you're living with hiv, keep loving who you are. and ask your doctor if biktarvy is right for you. >> florida governor announced

earlier this summer that his election police had rounded up 20 ex felons for registering to vote, we talked about this earlier in the week many of the people arrested had no idea they couldn't vote. you could see the confusion over this lot there was some body cam footage of some of the arrest with people asking officers why the state allowed them to vote in the first place. then there were the arresting officers who could barely explain the charges. anyway, none of that looked good for the governor and his election police and today we've got some real legal prove that this whole thing might be backfiring on rhonda scent is spectacularly. robert leawood was one of the 20 people arrested in the scheme, today a miami judge dismissed florida's charges against him on jurisdictional grounds. that judge found that in order

for the officer statewide prosecution to bring -- voting illegally had to have happen in more than one place in florida. in other words, the judge ruled that the scientists's prosecutors got the court system wrong. it appears a precedent has been set. -- with attorneys representing the only 19 people accused of voter fraud. that vindication comes at a price governors messaged ex felons had been delivered namely vote at your peril, and in the end, that is the point. that does it for us tonight rachel will be back on monday i will see you again on tuesday and now with just 18 days to go till the election it is time for the kornacki countdown with steve kornacki. countdown wit steve kornacki ♪ ♪ ♪