learned from liz truss at her predecessor, boris johnson. when you lose power, whether by the voters or your own party, in a democracy, you exit the stage, that stage a violent coup against the democracy. >> exactly. people say oh boris is the british trump. as you say, no, he didn't launch an insurrection. one thing i would say, last thing, the only true thing donald trump has ever said in his life is that i could shoot someone in the middle of the street and not lose a single voter. and that is proven to be true in many ways, sadly, for this country. >> true and sad at the same time. you're right. it's great to see you as always. excellent show, enjoy the rest of your evening of. coming up on him in, holding january six republicans accountable. independent set evan mcmullin joins me live on his bid to take down gop darling and trump acolyte mike lee. plus, come on democrats, the left has an economic message to

take the voters, why aren't they using it. and advocating for patients, doctors are getting political, speaking out against harsh abortion restrictions. amen to discuss this with the president of the american medical association right here, on a minimal you'll dean, let's get started. >> it is election month in america. people are voting. according to the u.s. elections project more than 7 million only votes have been cast. for weeks we've discussed how critical this election is considering it could fundamentally reshaped the balance of power and washington and the future of this country. it's significant for another reason. it marks the first time voters will have a real chance to hold lawmakers accountable for their actions on january the 6th. up until this point, we've only seen the issue play out in -- come november, it will be the

first time a general election has its say. look at this new nbc poll, the majority of americans 60% believe president biden won the election legitimately. the far-right conspiracies won't fly with them. so, there is no surprise really that january the six has taken center stage in some of these critical races, and clued in utah. where incumbent republican mike lee is facing off against former republican turned independent, and it mcmullin in the statement competitive senate race in decades. throughout the campaign, my colleagues tried to distance himself from his parties coup attempt, ignoring the fact that he himself played an instrumental role in it. he lead tech show lee message former trump's eve of staff mark meadows on november 7th, trying to set up a meeting between trump and conservative lawyer sydney powell. noting her quote, strategy to keep things alive and put several states back in play. november seven coincidentally was the same day that the election was actually called,

for joe biden. more than a month later, likely did not give up, no, he was still added on december 8th he texted meadows quote, very small handful of states were to have their legislators appointed alternative slates of delegates there could be a path. after the dust that the capitol settled on january six we alternately voted to certify the election. to use that vote as a sort of get out of jail free card. escaping accountability for the work he dead, before the insurrection. but that the only debate last week he wouldn't like my cree or forget his own history. >> the electoral college cast its vote, joe biden won that as to whether there were errors, as to whether some states might have conducted their elections better than others. there's always room for debate, questions about that. ultimately what matters, is the electoral college, the

electoral college won. >> for you to talk about the important tons of the electoral college, is rich. i think you know exactly how important it is. i think you knew how important was when you sought to urge the white house that it lost an election, find elect -- will of the people. senator ali, that was the most egregious betrayal of our nation, constitution and its history by a u.s. senator. and it will be your legacy. >> a recent poll shows michael a leading evan mcmullin by four percentage points. it's important to emphasize that's within the poll's margin of error. 12% of voters remain undecided in the race and in a sign of desperation earlier this month, mike lee went on national television to quite literally, bag for the support of his fellow senator from utah. mitt romney. i should tell you something that the other republican senator from elise home state hasn't endorsed him just a couple weeks before the election.

and have to say something. the stakes are incredibly high, not just for the people of utah, but for all americans who believe in accountability, believe in democracy. just a couple weeks, a coalition of democrats, independents, and anti trump republicans could said and are a zaandam message to the rest of this country. those who sought to overturn our election. enough is enough. joining me now is evan mcmullin, independent senate candidate from the state of utah. evan, great to see you again. thank you for making time for us. look, mike lee was pressed on those messages with mark meadows just this morning. specifically, his text about trump fake electors plot. and quote, the path forward. i want to play for you interviewers what he said, watch. >> when you're saying, i'm looking for a path forward with the states electors. or would state legislators. that path forward would suggest that you were at some point on board with the idea? >> now, look, the point here

was that there was only one path. and that path, i was trying to get the white house at the president's team to acknowledge. it was the only path, if the state concluded that it incorrectly certify the results of its election, and it shifted on the slate of electors, that would be the only way of doing out. >> i'm not sure if you're able to decipher that, i certainly not. but senator lee seems to be struggling to come up with a defensive himself. those techs lay out his actions pretty clear if you ask me. what message does it say to the people of utah, reelect this man, someone who's personally involved an election subversion efforts? >> well, ayman, great to be with. you thanks for having me on. the reality is that most utah's -- mike lee. the challenges, were divided between republicans, democrats, independents, members of third parties like the united utah party. our strategy is to bring all these political rivals together

to do something we agree needs to be done. in order to protect our constitution and our democratic republic. we need to replace mike lee. he did seek to overturn the will of the people in our democracy with fake electors. he told the white house that he had been working 14 hours a day to unravel this for the president. referring to the election. he betrayed the constitution, he took an oath to defend it. and when the barbarians read the, he was ready to let the man. and because of that, we must hold him accountable, most you tie and will come together to do that on november 8th. >> there was a new poll that found 81% of democrats, 79% of republicans believe the other party's agenda will quote, destroy america. you're in a unique position, you're running as an independent. how do you react to these numbers? >> well, i would say that most americans truly have far more uncommon than they realize. we've been told by self sobering politicians, where

each other's enemies, we've been made out to be that way. but we found in this campaign, which depends on building this cross part is in coalition. in actuality, we have far more uncommon most of us that we do indifference. we start with our commitment to our core values, ayman, were created free unequal, and our deepest human purposes the pursuit of happiness. and that's why we have a democracy which we elect we are leaders. and when we voter aiders out, they go peacefully. we're -- first and foremost. two objective truth. that's what bringing this coalition together. we found far more in common on really every major issue facing the country. we don't have to be this divided. we have corrupt leaders like senator lee, who led us to believe that. so they, can hold on to power that being held accountable. but we're rejecting those book and politics in utah. and charting a new way forward. >> i want to ask you about a critically important issue this election cycle. and that is, the issue of abortion. the only way you can win as you

just said there, is with this coalition of help from democrats, democratic voters. what's your message to those voters who don't want to cast their ballot for mike lee but also don't want to send someone to the congress who could take away their reproductive rights, or any other foment a fundamental rights they may have? >> even within our coalition. there's areas of disagreement. but again, another example of where there is common ground. this coalition is committed to standing up to the extremes that force a ten year old wright victims, all right victim of any age to carry a pregnancy to term, or they would bag contraceptive or some other way criminalize women, or medical professionals. we're gonna stand up to those extremes. but we're also committed to finding a more productive way forward on this issue. this never ending tug of war over the law. these bills being passed around the country, they're not the answer, they're tearing our country apart. the answer in my view, a more constructive way forward, is

making contraceptive more available, and doing more to support women, children, and families. that's what lowers the abortion right in the america. most americans can get behind that. even though they have other differences. so, we're committed to doing that to. >> looking forward, if you do in, you said that you will remain a true independent, -- with either party. you claim this will give you leverage. and power in the senate. there's also the political reality of walk -- if you refuse to make a decision, you run the risk of not receiving any committee assignments by the party, in the majority. if that's the case, how can you ensure you'll deliver for the people of utah? >> first of all, let me say, the senate rule. senate rule 25 the requires every senator to have two committee assignments. and possibly a third from a smaller category of special committees. there's never been an independent, since at least world war ii, elected to the senate who has not had committee assignments.

i will have committee assignments, all that a lot more done with them then my opponent has. in 12 years of service in the senate, senator liz only passed ten bills. a good number of them, named federal buildings. he's the least protect -- chamber. we will do a tremendous amount of work, more than he's done. let me say this, ayman, the real issue is this. this said it will still be very divided after this, after this election. it's divided as it can be now, it'll still be really divided. senators who are willing to act with greater independence, service to their constituents, endure -- have the most influence in the chamber. i would say washington, second to the president. i'm running to defend our democracy, protect our water, bring down inflation, health care costs. these are my priorities. i am going to use my position between both parties, if we prevail here, to bring about solutions for the american people on those fronts. that's what i'm committed to.

it will make this coalition that we're building of democrats republicans and independents, in utah on across the country, the most influential i believe in the nation. and we'll do a tremendous amount of good for our country with that influence. >> you tie senate candidate, evan mcmullin running as an independent. best of luck. thank you so much for making time for us this evening. we appreciate. it >> thank. you >> up next, how democrats could step up their messaging on economic issues. but first, my friend richards here with the highlights. >> a man, good evening. we're following breaking news this hour for you. and we see new -- south korea have exchanged fire. it started when a north korean ship across the maritime border in the yellow city entering into an area to not have in south korea enforcement fired warning shots. north korea that -- artillery shells back. we're told the north korean ships did turn back. more as we get right here on msnbc. two former minneapolis police officers charged in george floyd's death are heading to

trial on state aiding and abetting counts. j alexander come, and totality, been convicted in federal court counts for -- civil rights. and begun serving those sentences. our first in china, xi jinping secures his third term as president of the asian nation on sunday. it became official when he walked on stage at the great hall of the people in beijing. she ended two term limits several years ago. more ayman, with a manual medina right after this break. medina right after this break. they customize your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. contestants ready? go! only pay for what you need. jingle: liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ ♪ only pay for what you need. no two dreams are the same. but there is one van equipped to handle them all.

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budget deficit was cut in half. the biggest single year it dropped ever. i forgive you if you did it. that huge economic news came out this week. democrats have been pretty quiet about it. frankly, democrats hadn't touted any of the resist economic wentz. it's been on the one hand we understand inflation is still high. not everybody is feeling good about the state of the economy. but if democrats don't make a forceful economic message, republicans will fill the void. and make it for them, even if they have to live. this week, president biden campaigned in pennsylvania promoting the infrastructure law, that democrats passed earlier this year. it was one of the rare events we've seen focused on that legislation. just president biden's rationale for not speaking out. more and an interview with -- >> a lot of what we've done,

we've passed, isn't kicked in yet. for example, we had all this money to rebuild the hallways, bridgers, it's gonna take time. >> it's pretty honest, it's all fine and good, but why hasn't president biden been -- pointing to roads, bridges, and that will be built. and actually as a result of the democrats legislation. the same with student up with ray, biden held his first event on his a ministration's relief program, just this week. new nbc news poll shows democratic colleague generic congressional ballot by one point. republicans having nine-point edge of enthusiasm. we know that the issues voters care most about our jobs, the economy, cost of living. so, democrats, i'm begging you, have the economic message to sell to the american people. you can run on your winds, still be sympathetic to those

who need help. they're not exclusive. as robert shapiro put in washington monthly, democrats, wake up, your record is a strong case for keeping you in charge. it's time to actually let the voters know. by sunday night panel joins me now. democratic strategist and former senior aide on the biden harris campaign, adrian elrod. comedian a writer producer for -- on showtime, josh gonell man. and editor at large of the 19th an msnbc political contributor, erin haines. great tattle three of you with. us adrian, i want to start with you. you worked on the biden harris 2020 campaign, you know the importance of messaging, what do you make about how democrats are running things right now? are they on the offensive or are they on the defense? >> well, ayman, it's more complicated than that. we're a bit of both. on the one hand, as everything you just pointed out the economy is very strong right now in terms of actual economic indicators. record unemployment rate, under

4%, record job growth under president biden, people are actually able to go out there and -- many respects. there is a lot of jobs out there for people who are looking for the kind of job that they want to have. on the flip side, you are seeing inflation affecting families across the country. what this white house is doing, frankly, what a lot of democrats across congress are doing as well, it's strike that balance of started doing the whole, i feel your pain. i understand what you're dealing with at home. in terms of this kitchen table issue. let us talk about what we've done in congress. frankly, by the -- on many of these economic bills. they try to ease your pain, put moment in the pocket -- look, a man, i'm a big believer that we should be going out here and doing a better job. a better job of selling the president biden and the democrats of congress have been able to do. fdr, we haven't seen this kind of progress since fdr.

for major economic bills -- bipartisan. and one of those the ships bell which will help us compete with china. long term advantage. as there's a lot to talk about. but i do think we need to balance that with making it clear, we understand what american families are going through right now. that's where a lot of democrats are. >> josh, what's your reaction to the nbc news poll showing republicans having a nine-point lead and into as yasmin over democrats? you think about the way the republicans are energizing, you wonder why democrats are not more energized given the overturning of roe v. wade. the fact that the other party basically embraced a coup to overturn the democracy? >> it's heavy. i think you're right though. you watch republican voters are very energized. we've seen states with tailgate's, that's one place you see that enthusiasm, action from the voter block. i also think it's tough with

these bad pigs happening. there's a tendency to think, oh, when republicans do this thing that's against the public a, against the public interest. that's good for democrats, because democratic voters were turnout. i think that feels like, it feels grimy when people say that. i think voters don't like it when it feels like politicians are weaving a toothbrush at their place, to get a second date. does that make sense? >> yeah. erin, how do you find the economic case to voters to adrienne's point. different parts of the country are feeling different things,, different classes are feeling different things, what's the message to the people of the reality of the totality of the picture? >> a man if i can go back to your last point. for one second. he has, we're seeing high interest among republicans. the we're also seeing is our headlines as early voting standard away in states like

georgia. they're showing record turnout in early voting already. i think as you continue to see the early window, the early voting window launching, it'll be interesting to see what turnout is looking like and if there is enthusiasm and on which side. -- listen, i think democrats have been talking about the economy. we've written stories about the economy over the last year. but really, hammering the points now and voters are actually paying attention is what's gonna make a difference. because that's exactly what republicans are doing talking about inflation, trying to pin everybody, pain at the pump, pain at the grocery store on democrats, on the administration. yes, the unemployment numbers have been pretty good. month after month after month. but really, it's a time when americans were necessarily glued to cable television. and honestly, or focused on life. two plus years into the pandemic, on the new job they might've got in, are going back to an office, spending time with kids, back to the classroom. it doesn't matter what they already said, are they touting the accomplishments as voters

are heading to the polls, the message that voters take with them into the voting booth, is largely gonna be a matter of how effective these carrots and their parties are at tapping into the electorate priority. >> adrian, political reported that biden's polls or saw the numbers drop when he touted his wins. can he acknowledge -- summer feeling while still praising his record? >> absolutely. again, this president has put all the capital on the line to get the four major economic bills being passed across the finish line. again, two of those have a bit of republican support. the other two did not. these bills are in play dividends to the american people. the point that president biden made in his interview, it's gonna take some time for the american people to feel some of these benefits. benefits like lowering your prescription drug costs, which was in the inflation reduction act, american families are feeling that immediately. some of these of our points in the bell are gonna take a little bit longer to feel.

so, again, he's making it clear, he's done a lot of things that will help american families. again, without republican support. again, what we're dealing with here, inflation numbers are high and it's gonna take them time for those numbers to go down. by the way, this is a global situation, the united states is feeling inflation numbers much lower than other parts of the country. other parts of the world. we can't necessarily they sit -- on the side of american families. that's the challenge there. i think, amen, going into 2024 when you see the real effects of this bill take place, like the affordable compare at -- it's gonna be a much better situation. it's incumbent on the administration of president biden is doing. to continue to tout about the accomplishes done, everything he's bill. >> to your point, i agree with you. with the president should be out there telling the american people, look, let us continue the job. we've done so much in the first two years. you bring in the republicans now, they're gonna derail

everything or building. you gotta be patient, so all these benefits taken from everything that we've got done in these two years. which as you mention, is quite remarkable. josh, i was thinking just last friday, president biden's student debt relief plan was temporarily blocked in court. no surprise there from the republicans. but couldn't democrats use that to hit republicans on the campaign trail, arguing the gop wants to block relief to young americans who are drowning and that, and that could actually benefit our economy? >> yes, they have to i think 12 million people have applied for this really, it could impact as many as 40 million they say. it's a huge swath of voters. if republican judges are trying to block this measure. we need to see democrats have a hard and working hard to make sure people get the relief they were promised. president biden is a grandfather. he should think creatively from

that place. send everyone who's eligible for that really a birthday card, with $20,000 and with a note that says, do suspended all in one place. i think we need to get creative. >> maybe -- they might give you a call, josh. erin, if democrats have to have this kind of bill clinton style, i feel you and pain moment. how do we go back, how do they convey which they are empathy to the struggling, working class, and middle class families in america. while at the same time deliver the resounding message of what they have gotten done economically? >> yeah, that is supposed to be joe biden's brand. -- mr. blue-collar, mr. -- he supposed to be able to relate to the american people. particularly around issues of hardship or adversity. this is somebody who could be

an effective rate -- has been an effective messenger, especially when he is out amongst the people. as you mention his campaign stop just this past week, in pennsylvania, where i live. with john -- very popular type of politician. he's been talking about infrastructure inflation, student loan debt. these are things that happened to democrat -- young voters in particular. but getting them out there more in the last two weeks, could make a difference again especially as people are really starting to pay attention and focus on this election in the home stretch of this very long campaign. >> it's gonna be a very long. i feel the next two years are gonna be never-ending as well. panel, stick around. we have a lot more to discuss. including which republican made our worst of the week west. stick around, we'll tell you about that. about that and twice the choice. sirloin salisbury steak and all-natural salmon. perfect for lunch or dinner.

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favorite game in the week. the warmest republican of the week. tonight we're choosing between two republican candidates costing the gop big-time. first up, none other than ohio state candidate, j.d. vance. he's running in a solid red state that trump won by eight points, back in 2020. that vance can't gain the upper hand on his democratic opponents, tim ryan. he struggled so much that republican groups have invested more than $30 million to shore up his chances. did i say that this was a strongly red state. it is as political points out, even if tim rise and loses, these are -- gop to go all in on a normally safe red state. then there is kevin stitt, republican governor of oklahoma, someone you've probably not heard of. trump won his state by more than 30 points, and he's struggling in the polls. against democrat joy hofmeister. several polls show hofmeister

elite -- tied with stitt or beaten. republican governors association's throwing and down millions of dollars to try and save states campaign. millions, to a win and oklahoma. can you imagine that? these republicans should be locked -- for races i should say they should be -- but they're not. both are struggling. and it is a year in which democrats find themselves struggling as well. j.d. vance and kevin stitt proved something we almost forgot in the age of trump. candidate quality matters. and if you're bad enough, you can lose and even the friendliest of terrain. no matter the cost. just ask roy mole -- bring out our senate panel to break it all down. adrian, who's your pick of the week vance our state, how bad is it for republicans when they're pouring millions of dollars into races that should be as i mentioned, safe bats for both of them? >> you've given me such a challenging decision here.

it's gonna be tough to pick the worst one. it's actually j.d. bats. this is as you pointed out, ohio's a state that president biden lost by eight points, donald trump won by eight points, elite -- eight points. so, the fact of this is a neck and neck race, the fact that j.d. vance finally started to get even in the polls with tim ryan. it says a lot about this raise. look, i still think tim ryan is a good shot of this raise, even though the polls have tight end. he has his fingers on this day. he's been a member of congress and ohio for closed 18 years. he's pretty and what the union voters. he's a great candidate for this time in that state. that being said, j.d. vance is being flooded with last-minute influx of republican super pac cash. it's hard for tim ryan to compete. it's a close race in this environment, says a lot about the type of republicans -- the republican parties recruited.

from herschel walker to j.d. vance. to blake masters. this is not exactly -- a dr. oz, not exactly a stellar roop of candidates. that they've recruited. it says a lot about the republican party in general. and no matter what happens in this race, tim ryan's gonna come out as a winner. i think it's gonna be a long standing star in our party. >> josh, fans are stuck? >> okay, this is to have. ultimately, it's whichever one loses. i don't want to claim moral victories for democrats while republicans are continuing to do deeply and moral things to claim victory. ultimately, they're pouring money into these candidates, but that's what the money is for. the republicans pander to other wealthy governors for occasions like this. as long as either of these candidates gets over the finish -- much mcconnell carefully limping, leaning from the nibbles, and reading their own legs. it's fitting, as republicans shuffle money like coal and furnaces to support candidates

who will keep our countries -- so, there's a poetic nature in their. >> it's absolutely. right it's a good way of looking at. it let me play for you this moment from the debate between kevin stitt and joe a hofmeister, or she called out his talking points on crime? >> the fact is, the rates of violent crime are higher in oklahoma under, your watch, than in new york and california. that's a fact. >> we'll have that fact checked. >> it's also a fact, the medical marijuana -- >> do you believe that we have higher crime than new york in california? that's what she just said. >> first of, what kind of reaction is that. and give us their overall pick, j.d. vance or kevin stitt? what can you believe, we have a higher crime than in new york? yeah, the numbers tell that story. >> and that was a really good

debate moment for hofmeister. is it that republicans aren't having this message on crime, how democrats are the ones that are making the country dangerous. hofmeister really turned it back on stitt. said, no, you as a republican governor have been making our state more dangerous. he didn't really have a response for that. so, it was interesting. look, yes, i think to the point that adrienne and josh have already made, ohio certainly interesting in both these races you've got democrats that are gonna be -- seldom lee red states. but i need to say, tim ryan may be helping his party, but his party gonna help him, the gop is pouring up states in ohio, but democrats already abandoned that race. it's within the margin of error. it's a pretty tight race. but the bottom line is, this isn't a place where republicans are gonna spend $30 million to

keep a solidly red seat, and democrats may end up thanking tim ryan from the sidelines come november of his race adds up benefiting other people, more than it benefits him. >> i think that's a telling sign. the democrat should've taken ohio more seriously early on. and who knows how this race could is shaped out how they invested the resources that republicans are investing. we'll wait and see if tim ryan can pull it off. adrian elrod, josh gobbled man, -- thank you for the three of you. for joining us tonight. we appreciate it. next, doctors are stepping up to protect the rights of women. the rights of women the rights of women ♪ birds flyin' high ♪ ♪ you know how i feel ♪ (coughing) ♪ breeze driftin' on by ♪ ♪ you know how i feel ♪ copd may have gotten you here, but you decide what's next. start a new day with trelegy. ♪ ...feelin' good ♪ no once-daily copd medicine has the power to treat copd

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involved in politics before or actually mobilizing to influence the outcome of the midterms. joining battles over abortion rights, gun violence, while confronting health and misinformation and the anti-science sentiment in this

country. they're being featured in political ads, joining candidates on the stump, in some cases even running for office. much of their ire is directed at republicans. including one medical professional is running for office, as a republican. none other than tv doctor oz. as the washington post reported, during a shows run from 2009 to 2021, was provided a platform for potentially dangerous products, and fringe viewpoints. roughly 150 pennsylvania positions has signed a letter denouncing oz for spreading misinformation and sharing factually incorrect medical advice. some of these physicians say their condemnation of oz is in typist atticus. it's borne out of their personal experiences with patients who follow the advice that he broadcast on his show. other doctors have spoken out against abortion misinformation and condemned restrictive laws that forced pregnant women into potentially fatal situations. and this week, the springfield news letter and missouri

reported that a woman claimed she was denied an emergency abortion in our state. because of the near total ban. she says she called other state senators office for help, was told by -- designed to protect the woman's life. she was not connected by an anti abortion crisis center. the woman's fetus was dying inside of her, said she eventually had to travel to illinois to get the reproductive care she needed. other woman fearing outcomes like this for taken matters into their own hands. the report from the new yorker highlights the work of activists who are smuggling abortion inducing medication across the border from mexico to states where abortion is banned. one woman leading this effort says, she's getting 50 requests a day from the u.s. for abortion pills. doctors have protested abortion bans in tennessee, ohio, michigan away physician activism we haven't seen before. -- caitlin bernard set off a political firestorm after going public with her experience providing abortion for a

ten-year-old rape victim who is denied one in ohio. the american medical associations called the dobbs verdict, which overturned, and egregious allowance of governor intrusion, into the medical examination room. joining numerous medical societies across the country, voicing opposition to avoid that as interference in medical practice. after the break, we'll speak with the president of the american medical association about the effects of overturning roe. and the medical activism. medical activism medical activism bad. and for those who do get it bad, it may be because they have a high-risk factor. such as heart disease, diabetes, being overweight, asthma, or smoking. even if symptoms feel mild, these factors can increase your risk of covid-19 turning severe. so, if you're at high risk and test positive, don't wait. ask your healthcare provider right away if an authorized oral treatment is right for you.

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♪ ♪ only pay for what you need. no more waiting. no more running. [ screaming ] we finish this tonight. joining us now is the president of the american medical association, talk to jack resident. dr. resonate, it's great to have you with us, thank you so much for making time for us. i'd like you to expand on the statement that the a.m.a. put out in the wake of roe v. wade being overturned. i read a part of it earlier, in which you called it an egregious allowance of

government intrusion into the medical examination room. expand on that for us, if you can, sir. >> thank you so much for having me tonight, and talking about this important issue. our main concern is all of the damage to the health of our patients, and the health of the nation when we have politicians inserting themselves into very complicated and personal medical decision-making that we think should be made between a doctor and patient. that is really what is creating this danger. stories like the one you told about patients who are having complications, and that topic. the miscarriage that -- or to hemorrhage, and are finding themselves sitting with doctors in emergency departments, having discussions like, we have to call the attorneys now, because your chance of death might be 20%. under our state law, we don't know if it qualifies for us at this point. and so from our standpoint, this is really creating chaos, and some of these restrictive states around the country is

placing patient lives at risk, and we are extraordinarily concerned. >> i want to read a brief portion of the statement that you made back in july to congress. in, part it said that states that and legal abortion will not end abortion, they will end safe abortions. risking devastating consequences, including patients lives. expand on that for us, and have you heard about, or even been part of issues like that for women so far? >> we are starting to see the consequences, and we know what happens when pregnant patients who either need or want an abortion cannot get one. sometimes, they turn to self managed abortions, and we know from history, and other countries as well, that that is a bad medical consequence. sometimes, they have the resources and are able to travel to another state, but lines are getting longer in those states. and so people are getting abortions later, and as a result. we know of a study a few years ago of patients that are turned

away and ultimately do not get abortions that they are seeking, and end up with more health problems and mental health issues. there were subjects that -- the whole list of publications that they face more often. and then just recently, in the last several days, out of texas we have seen the first one of these bands since, looking at women actually have rupturing in the membranes. this is the first couple of weeks of pregnancy where it went wrong, and they were not going to survive. there were no longer to have the option of terminating the pregnancy right away. and the rate of serious complications began, infections up in the icu, or fire higher in texas. especially compared to other states that did not have similar bans. >> you alluded to this a little bit. there are reports of people having to travel devastatingly long distances in order to cross state lines and get an abortion. the wall street journal

reported on a woman six-day journey in order to get an abortion due to medical complications. what does this kind of physical strain place on a pregnant woman's body? >> this is not a good idea. that article in the wall street journal, that woman ended up with kidney issues when she got to north carolina. dangerously high blood pressure. to be stuffed into an ambulance and gone six hours away to another state is not an acceptable health care. it's not the standard of care. it's really an example of what happens when these complicated decisions the doctors and patients make every day, thinking about the medical situation that they find themselves in, weighing that patients values, and whether they want to receive care. and making these complicated decisions are so much harder when you have a state attorney general, or governor, or somebody else sitting on your shoulder in the exam room, and you know that they are going to rest respectively judge the

decision that you made this is not what any of us would want a patients who find ourselves in these situations. it's also not rare. we've heard from some folks that these were just picking those examples that are incredibly uncommon, and highlighting them. my topic presidencies are one to 2% of pregnancies that occur. think of how many of us know a family member who is experienced a miscarriage. these are not rare instances. >> i want to ask you, if i, can about the gop here for a moment. in the past, the republican party has had no problem attacking facts and experts. if you take a list of all of the things that they have gone after that are inconvenient for them, it's like climate science, basic data on gun violence, covid vaccines, are you concerned that there could be a blowback for doctors speaking out and becoming politically involved on some of those issues? and more importantly, why have

we as a country become, or a large part of us have become anti-doctors, and anti-science? >> we have seen a lot more disinformation and misinformation in the last couple of years, as you alluded to. we've seen covid, reproductive health care, vaccines, and so many other things. fears us at the am a, it's a partisan issue. wear a non partisan organization. i will work with anybody, anytime for any party that is willing to advance our evidence pace policy, and follow science, and advance the health of the nation. but indeed, doctors are finding themselves in a position where all of a sudden they, on the one, hands have their ethics to take care of the patient in front of them, which is our guiding north star. and the other hand, they're facing these losses, taking great care of their patients. and so when physicians find themselves in that position, these are the battles that they picked. physicians are going to stand up when we make policy in the a.m.a., we consider positions from every state in the country, every specialty across the

political spectrum. science based debates, and they have spoken up overwhelmingly. this issue or any other, for politicians to really try to put in the statute and legislate complicated health care decisions, and make decisions that are between doctors and patients. it's not a partisan thing for us. >> i was going to say, not a partisan thing, but it certainly feels like a dark time in this country for science and fact based research and evidence. dr. jack, thank you so much for joining, us we appreciate your insight on this very important subject. we'll be back in just a moment. a moment d time. so to help you remember that liberty mutual customizes your home insurance, here's a pool party. ♪ good times. insurance! ♪ only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ ♪♪ whenever heartburn strikes get fast relief with tums. it's time to love food back.

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for us. be sure to catch a man back here on msnbc, saturdays at a, saturdays at nine. all of us on twitter, tiktok, and instagram, at eamonn msnbc. please stick around. up next, msnbc films presents shutting down midnight. their first installment of the new documentary series, the turning point. executive lead produced by trevor noah. this is science -- former texas senator wendy davis who stood up against her state. and galvanized thegalvanized the