♪♪ hi there, everyone. in new york, one of the hallmarks of the justice department under the leadership of attorney general merrick garland is that it does it through methodically and quietly speaking through their filings as merrick garland would say. which means the stuff we're most interested in, including the criminal investigation of donald trump's handling of documents happens behind closed doors. but now there's brand-new reporting that gaves us a rare

glimpse of what's happening behind the scenes in the documents investigation. prosecutors are reportedly laser focused on a witness that could lead them directly to the impeached disgraced president himself. and witness for prosecutors is walt nata who worked as a valet and cook when trump was president and him later personally in mar-a-lago. the president's private residence in florida. prosecutors have indicated they're skeptical of an initial account he gave investigators. that's according to two people briefed on the matter. and here is what prosecutors hope to learn from nauta from the timers reporting, quote, security camera footage obtained by investigators showed mr. nauta moving boxes out of the storage area at mar-a-lago. raising the questions about whether they were moved at trump's behest, to conceal them

from the authorities. or trump's own lawyers who were dealing with demands that he return the documents. both the justice department and the attorney for walt nauta declined to comment on this reporting by "the new york times." prosecutors putting a squeeze on a key trump aide is where we begin with some of our favorite reporters and friends. "the new york times" washington correspondent mike schmidt is here. his byline from the story we read from. andrew wiseman, former prosecutor and senior member of robert mueller's special investigation. and the former fbi assistant director for counterintelligence. all three msnbc contributors. mike schmidt, two part question, take us through what you're reporting and, two, are they contemplating perjury charges for mr. nauta? >> well, the significance of our

report is that the justice department is trying to push recalcitrant witnesses to further cooperate with the investigation. trying to find out what was happening behind closed doors as trump was trying to fend off the requests from the government, and moving boxes and going through boxes at mar-a-lago, what was it, what trump's intentions were, and why was he doing that. and it's not just on this aide that they're doing this. they're also pushing kash patel, a former devin nunes aide that worked in the trump administration. at one point was going to become a senior fbi official. even bill barr didn't want him there. he thought that would be problematic. the government wants him to testify. he went before the grand jury within the past month. he took the fifth amendment several times in response to questions. the government has moved to compel his testimony to get him to answer questions.

his lawyers are fighting it, saying he should be able to invoke fifth amendment rights. so, the government really putting the squeeze on witnesses as they try to get to the bottom of what trump's true intentions were, with trying to conceal these materials. >> mike, i just want to read part of your reporting. it says investigators have interviewed mr. nauta at least twice. and they're skeptical that he was frank with them in his role with moving the boxes. the authorities did not show him video footage during the interviews according to two people. but at one point, he gave an answer that investigators found contradictory to what he provided earlier. in earlier interview, mr. nauta had taken boxes to trump's residence at mar-a-lago. one person briefered in that interview said he was clear that trump directed him to do so, another said he was left specific about who had told him to do so. you know, some echoes to the second volume of the mueller report, where trump was asking

people to fire mueller and whatnot. this is obviously a former military chef and valet, someone who would be very impressionable. but it's also clear that what they have against him is his own actions on the surveillance footage. we know the doj has subpoenaed surveillance video, and can you talk about the strength that they have on the footage? >> well, what they have is evidence on the footage that contradicts the initial statements he gave him. what that gives the government leverage over him. the government can probably -- i'm pretty sure, andrew wiseman can give us a better sense of this, wants to know once more, trying to make a perjury case against him and trying to prosecute him for misleading investigators. they're trying to understand what trump was really up to. and the cooperation of an aide who moved boxes is integral to that. so, they want that testimony, they want that cooperation, to

understand everything that was happening. and indicting him, and taking him to court is probably not the direction where they want to spend their time and energy on this investigation. >> andrew weissman, your name has been invoked. your thoughts about what mike's reporting? and i'm going to ask a question i've asked a ton of times, why not charge the obstruction case? it's here they have at least mr. nauta obstructing this investigation. >> there's two potential charges, there be obstruction of the investigation and there's making a false state to a government official, the fbi and the department of justice lawyers that qualify as government officials for the purposes of that statute. of course, they've also testified in the grand jury, they can be subject to perjury charges. i agree with mike that the ultimate goal is to get the truthful testimony plaintiff

nauta and mr. patel. it is complicated, though, when you're dealing with people like this to just say, oh, you told something that's false. but now if you say something true, we won't charge you or immunize you or let bygones be bygones. there's a real value if you can in making those obstruction charges. what we're derisively referred by former president trump as process crimes. and the reason is, as frank well knows, it's very important it you're trying to encourage people to be candid and truthful that you make it clear that there are consequences if you come in and lie to the government. and the way you do that is by charging people. so, they have a very strong for obstruction or false statement or perjury case. one thing to do is to say, look, we will -- you need to plead

guilty. but we will give you a cooperation agreement. we will bring your cooperation to the attention of the sentencing judge. and there's a way out of this where you may not face jail time, but there are going to be consequences for the fact that you committed a crime. that is sort of the ideal way of go be forward. but that presupposes that you have a strong case and that you really can wait and endure and they will ultimately provide that truthful testimony. and the other way is to simply immunize them, immunity, which is a whole long process but it also has upsides and downsides. >> frank, the story has so many layers, sort of a quintessential trump story where he corrupts a military chef, and valet, brings him -- lures him -- i won't say lures, brings him to mar-a-lago after government service. and he's now at the beating heart of the criminal investigation into mishandling of national defense documents. and it sounds like they have him

dead to right of criminal obstruction of that probe. what do you make of sort of the larger picture that's emerging from doj's criminal investigation and investigation at mar-a-lago? >> yeah, we can learn a lot about this, about the influence of what trump has around those around it, and none of it is good influence, as you said. but, you know, it's a lesson for a lot of us here, yes, this young man -- or old man, served his country, united states navy, and then the honor serving at the white house, whether it's retirement or resignation, let's say he retires, goes to mar-a-lago, doesn't know the salary, doesn't really matter. just means he has a connection to trump and breaking through that for the agents and attorneys interviewing him is so critical to the obstruction charge. one of the ways i would do this, and mike's reporting is giving us real insight into investigative strategy, for example, you never as an

investigator want to show your whole hand. we learned from the reporting that they talked to him without showing him the security camera evidence, right? you want to do that because you want to see where he's going with this. you don't want to show your hand. but then after he says something inconsistent with what's clearly on the video, then they lay it down for him. that's an aha moment, should be a wake-up call for him. what i would do is really focus on the psychological component of getting them to cooperate which is your legacy can be the guy who went down with trump. the obstructer, the guy who moved the boxes. or your legacy, the guy who did the right thing, served his country and continued to do so even after retiring. i would even consider playing clips of cassidy hutchinson's testimony and all of the other higher ranking officials who did the right thing, even though they were initially loyal to trump. even perhaps to go as far as to think about presenting an fbi agent who served in the navy,

there are plenty of them. getting them to say, look, i was where you were. but we need you to do the right thing. >> it's remarkable, how you would talk to a witness like this. let me read a little bit about what doj knows about this. august 31st, doj filing, it was in a back and forth over trump's request for a special master but the government reveals this -- the government developed evidence that a search limited to the storage room would not have uncovered all the classified documents at the premises. so the government knows august 31st that all of the stuff isn't in there anymore. quote, the government also developed evidence that government records were likely concealed and removed from the storage room and that efforts were likely taken to obstruct the government's investigation." mike, there's an interesting passage in there about the surveillance footage that trump lawyers also have it and they're keeping it close. explain. >> so, the surveillance footage from mar-a-lago was subpoenaed by the government, obviously

used by the government in its investigation to obtain the search warrant. we've seen it pop up, back and forth in the special master case. it came from mar-a-lago, so trump himself and his lawyers have had a copy of it. and they closely guarded it. and it's not something that they've allowed a lot of people to see. it's obviously something that's critical to the government's investigation. trump has it. trump knows -- trump's lawyers know what's on there so they have some sense of what the government knows about what was coming in and out of that room. and who was doing it. that probably also gives trump's lawyers a sense of who other witnesses may be. do you think that this aide that we're talking about is the only aide who moved boxes around at mar-a-lago? or the only person who may have had any interactions or dealings with this. so, trump's lawyers know a lot more about the investigation than we, in the press, or the public does. because simply by the fact that they have this footage. and that they were dealing with the government as this went

along. so, they're closely guarding it. obviously, we all like to see it, to see what it looks like, to see what this room looks like where this classified material was. i think we all have some sense, whether we were in the government or not, of what a secure room would be for classified documents. and i'm certainly treat to know where where this room and what does it look like and what safe guards are really in place after protecting what the government has said are hugely important state secrets. >> andrew, it's such an important piece of the reporting because it reveals that they know who knows what trump told them to do. so, trump knows who represents the greatest threat, to him finally being held criminally accountable. trump knows exactly who's on the tape. trump knows who's of interest to the federal government. and you know, you look at the january 6th evidence that they put up of witness tampering around their witnesses, this is almost a personal staffer to donald trump. you can just take us inside what

the dynamic is like for the fbi, for investigators. >> well, i think that going to mr. nauta and mr. patel at this point is a real sign that the investigation is way past the beginning stages. i'm particularly intrigued by the fact that the government appears to be seeking an order from the chief judge of the d.c. district court compelling mr. patel to testify. that is -- that's a very bold step to be taking at this point. it makes it clear that, as mike suggests, that the government is not looking to bring a criminal case against mr. patel. but is willing to immunize him and put him in the grand jury, because they want to know the inside story of what he has to say, particularly, i would think, about the alleged declassification of documents.

and the same with mr. nauta. you have, because of the strong grand jury process, that the federal government has, they have the ability to compel testimony of the people closest to donald trump. and that, obviously, if you're the target of an investigation, that is a difficult situation to be in. because you're constantbly guessing about what the government knows. and i think in donald trump case, trying to thing how to thwart that which can be a form of obstruction if he engages in it. >> mike told us a little who kash patel is in the inner circle, too toxic even for bill barr. here's what kash patel said under scrutiny. >> you'll never meet the burden of intent because the president didn't pack it up and do it himself. the gsa did it and made a

mistake that really should have been the end of it. >> president trump as a sitting president is a unilateral authority for declassification. he can literally stand over a set of documents and say these are now declassified. and that is done by action immediately. >> i wasn't at mar-a-lago. i didn't know the boxes were there until the world found out the boxes were there after the raids. it just wasn't something i was a part of. the mainstream media has lost it. they've pelted me with questions about did you pack "x," did you move "y," have you been down there? no, i haven't been to mar-a-lago in months. and i know nothing about the fbi raid. i'm learning it with the american public. >> didn't know anything about the fbi raid. this is what's interesting to me, frank figliuzzi, kash patel said he can literally stand over a group of documents and say these are declassified. but we already know he did not,

we already know that trump sold sean hannity, he didn't even think of it. we also know with the special master they have sought verification of declassified and nothing has been produced. what do you make of his importance of making sure what happened? >> kash patel san interesting character in this. and he's clearly as important, if not far moore important than the valet is but there's advance going on here. because patel can say, i thought the president could do this by a thought process. but the key to patel is whether he had direct conversations with trump or those immediately around trump about obstructing, by saying, hey, i'm going -- i'm going to do this for you, boss. i'm going to say, you declassified these. and i'm going to make that argument that i somehow knew about that. maybe he's clairvoyant. i don't know. you and i talked about this before. there has to be a tangible

process. there has to be a defensible process around the declassification of documents. and there's no evidence here. and trump knows that, and kash patel knows that. so the question for patel is whether or not, that's legacy thing again. here's the difference between patel and the valet. patel may want to be that guy like a lot of people around trump, who goes down for the count for trump, wants to be the man who goes down for trump, regardless what's coming his way. let's remember something, trump was thinking about making patel either the deputy director of the cia or the deputy director of the fbi. by the way, those are career positions. you just don't grab somebody offer the street for those. but that is the influence that patel had with trump, and vice versa. so, he's the fascinating piece of this. but, again it goes to the heart of obstruction. and in the clip you played, by the way, this nonsense about gsa packed the boxes of declassified. that's not what the latest

reporting is at all. in fact it says gsa went to the white house and said sign this form here that says you pack the boxes that whatever is in them is necessary for you when you move out of the office. so he's wrong on that. >> frank, there's also the knowledge of criminal exposure showing in that clip. saying trump will never meet the burden of contempt. he's also saying enjoy the crime but they'll never get to intent. and he asked her to lie for him, she's under scrutiny. and alex canon, and asked nauta to move the boxes. we're well down the road to understanding intent, aren't we, frank? >> yeah. and the fact, as andrew said, the fact that he's already been called to the grand jury means that prosecutors know he is a critical piece of this. and he's got to be perspiring heavily at this point about what to do, which way to go. but he's got to make a decision here. and also as andrew very adeptly

pointed out, i think the prosecutors have clearly indicated, hey, we're willing to let you go and off the hook on some of this, but you got to give up the big guy. >> got to give up the big guy. famous words. mike, we'll put you on the spot, do you have any sense that the big guy is in the sights of doj for mishandling a national investigation or obstructing that investigation? >> we know that there's a full blown investigation into the president's handling of the documents. we know that the government took the extraordinary move of execuing the search warrant to go into mar-a-lago. i still think it's -- you know, and trump has become so numb to developments, but it's just such an extraordinary thing that happened. and now the government is going to great lengths to squeeze the people around him to figure out what they know about what trump was doing behind closed doors. as he tried to evade these things. it's as serious as they come but

with donald trump, there's often a lot of serious things to look at his conduct. and he's been very successful in evading them up until now. >> and andrew, i'll give you the last word, how much is that dynamic that mike schmidt just articulated, very serious, you were part of one of them is very serious investigations that touched him before and nothing seems to happen. what is your estimation how serious this is and how much of a threat it is from donald trump? >> i took from mike's reporting, particularly with respect to kash patel, the fact that the department of justice is clearly willing to immunize him and force him to testify under oath in the grand jury which means, by the way, if he then lies in the grand jury, he can still be prosecuted, but of the fact that they're willing to do that tells me two things. one, this investigation is clearly targeting the former president. it's the only reason to put kash patel in the grand jury and to afford him immunity.

and, two, the investigation is certainly no longer at the beginning stages, which if you remember is what the department of justice said in the first hearing before judge cannon. it's clearly far more advanced, because you would not get to that stage at this point. to me, this feels like i won't say end stage, but advanced decision that's made by the department that you need to find out what kash patel knows about the claims that he actually was there, when the president declassified these documents. so, you would want to find out everything that he claims happened and why on god's green earth the president would want to declassify the kinds of material that were found at mar-a-lago. and, clearly, the department's going to think that's false. and they're going to put kash patel to it. they're going to say tell me under oath what it is that you exactly remember. and then kash patel has a decision to make, because if he

lies he can still be prosecuted. or he can just tell the truth and then he's sort of compelled with this against the former president. >> it is funny. to all of your points, we've become -- i don't want to say numb, but we've become accustomed about learning these things about an ex-president. it's stunning, mike schmidt, thank you. andrew weissmann. thank you. frank sticks around. we're to the point where there are armed vote watchers in america. specifically in the state of arizona. right wing candidates defying these individuals urging these so-called vigilantes to keep watching. how these very explicit threats of voter intimidation and violence are being dealt with two weeks ahead of election day. plus, adidas finally has had enough, they cut ties with kanye west on multiple anti-semitic

rants. it took days for the sportswear company to respond, allowing his hate to go unchallenged in those days, with that type of rhetoric out from the shadows. and later in the show, families of those killed by gun violence in america. many of them becoming what they never thought they would have to do, becoming outspoken political activity viists for the next families. all of that on the line, for "deadline: white house" that continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. k break. don't go anywhere. ♪ will you make something better? ♪ will you create something entirely new? ♪ our dell technologies advisors provide you with the tools and expertise you need to do incredible things. because we believe there's an innovator in all of us. ♪ well the sun is shining and the grass is green ♪

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exactly two weeks ahead of the midterm elections, officials

are taking action to stop the growing wave of illegal voter intimidation at ballot boxes all across our country. in arizona alone, reports of armed poll watchers around voters, pictures of what officials call armed vigilantes, dressed in tactical gear. complaints from voters, saying camo-clad people filmed and followed them and accused them of being, quote, mules while they legally submit third ballots. in the past week, secretary of state katie hobbs has asked the state attorney general and u.s. department of justice to further investigation six reports of possible illegal voter intimidation and another of an election worker. politico is reporting that the biden administration and top security officials are preparing to issue an intelligence bulletin this week warning police departments to prepare for the midterms and laying out, quote, potential physical threats to election officials in jurisdictions across the country. let's bring into the

conversation former senator and mss in political analyst claire mccaskill. frank figliuzzi is back with us. frank, what does this look like? and what information will go to local law enforcement? >> yeah, well, first, good news, i'm glad that we're looking at this bulletin to law enforcement. we've already seen reporting again from politico that says there's already been a phone call, one of these massive all-hands phone calls that dhs and fbi run out of washington to state/local agencies, sheriffs and police departments. particularly, intelligence units at those places saying, look, you got to get ready. it's everything that we recommend. monitoring, militia groups, inenhancing security around the drop boxes. you know, the not so good news is here we are, right. it's already well into voting in many states but we're already

seeing allegations of intimidation. and here's the challenge faced by law enforcement. you know, getting your deputies, your officers out there, all shifts, on drop boxes, that's -- i don't think anyone ever intended that to happen. but this is where our nation is right now. and then, even from a prosecutor's standpoint. so, arizona, exhibit "a" here, look, there's federal law, both in title 52 and title 18, so civil and criminal penalties for trying to intimidate or coerce someone who is about to vote, sway their vote and instill fear in them. but proving that the guys hanging out in the tactical gear with the weaponry in the parking lot are instilling that fear. you can do it, you got to have the witnesses, the victims to do that. even covering the license plate is a state violation. there's reports they're doing that in arizona. the key is getting the officers out there. getting the d.a.s on board. already, maricopa county

sheriff, the phoenix area has said, yep, we're stepping it up. we're going to take action here. so, it's coalescing. the coordination is needed from the feds, it's happening, but it may have already had an impact. and we've got to show examples of people being prosecuted for this to have a true deterrent there. >> so, claire, one of the groups is called clean elections usa. this is what their website says, quote, we are looking for true patriots to take a stand and watch the drop boxes. we want to gather video and live witness evidence of any ballot tampering that takes place in realtime. there's a new lawsuit against clean elections usa, a 64-page complaint seeking a restraining order. here's how they operate. this is a local tv interview with clean elections usa. >> how are you guys doing out here? >> ah -- you know what, we're just out here, watching boxes.

and before i make any kind of statement or anything, i'd like to get -- getting a suntan, getting vitamin d. >> so you're getting vitamin d or you're watching the drop boxes? >> both. >> i'm not supposed to be having a discussion with anybody about anything. i'm just here. taking in vitamin d. >> and you're reporting, it looks -- >> the vitamin d, flying into your body. >> you're recording the vitamin d flying into your body, okay? are you recording the drop boxes? >> i'm really not able to comment. >> claire, there wasn't any voter fraud associated with drop box voting in the 2020 election. it's in fact, surprisingly, the most secure way to vote. but the mules comes from a movie, i don't know, 1,000, 2,000, 3,000 mules that bill barr called -- you and i quoted too many times on this show

quoting bill barr. this is what this information manifests itself into now i wish them happy and healthy vitamin d absorption. but that's not why they're there at all. this is the cancer of the big lie. and as frank said, they look more intimidaing than threatening. but being there at the drop box itself is it intimidation. >> yeah, just slap common sense on it, i'm not sure why anyone would need to wear a mask and wear a gun and sit and watch people vote. unless they are trying to tell the people that are voting, we're here to potentially hurt you. we think you're dangerous. we're carrying a gun. we're wearing tactical gear. and, you know, what's really happened here, niccole, you and i talked about this before, the seeds of this began with the republican party who decided it

was in their best interest to keep people from voting. to try to do everything they could to suppress votes to keep people from voting. to make people from voting as impossible. two people right wing political operatives pled guilty in ohio to fraud. in 2020, they were doing robocalls, warning black voters that if they sent in a ballot, the government could track them to arrest them or force them to take a vaccination. these guys are facing a year in jail for what they did. they were doing robocalls. fast forward two years and now we have them armed in tactical weaponry and masks. this is really dangerous, dangerous elevation of a big fat lie. every ballot that goes in that box has to be checked against the voter's signature. they can't just put things in that box that are going to

count. and there's a whole process that goes through. they're so ignorant. but this is a problem that the republican party has gone from just discouraging people from voting. to all-out confronting voters with big guns and masked men. >> claire, it's not just the kinds of fraudsters you're talking about. it's the ticket -- i mean in arizona, mark finchem has tweeted, quote, i think voters should hold mules and fraudsters and reporting them, accountable by recording them. watch all drop boxes. and kari lake saying would you be willing to watch all drop boxes. for potential mules. 88% of her twitter poll said yes. this is behavior that they're

inciting and instigating and encouraging and greenlighting. >> and the sad thing somebody like kari lake who is trying to become governor of state or this joke finchem, if there were somebody stuffing ballot boxes there would be evidence of that. there is no evidence of that. there are no mules. this is all fantasy fiction. and, you know, i thought the democratic candidate for secretary of state had the right answer back. he said, you know, this guy is encouraging people with guns to go and confront you while you vote. just any random guy, going out there and confronting you with a gun. these are called bullies. these are called bullies who are trying to suppress the votes of americans. and it ought to make americans mad and everybody ought to get busy and vote. get everybody to vote. just to show these people we're not afraid of their masked faces and stupid guns. >> claire, as only claire can

put it. frank figliuzzi is coming back in the next hour in another big story we're following for today. up next for us, kanye west is now toxic after weeks and weeks of racist anti-semitic rhetoric. with the republican party, they've given him a bigger stage and remained silent and complicit in his uninterrupted stream of hate. that conversation is next. that conversation is next. n addt for asthma driven by eosinophils. it helps prevent asthma attacks, improve breathing, and lower use of oral steroids. fasenra is not a rescue medication or for other eosinophilic conditions. fasenra may cause allergic reactions. get help right away if you have swelling of your face, mouth and tongue, or trouble breathing. don't stop your asthma treatments unless your doctor tells you to. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection or your asthma worsens. headache and sore throat may occur. ask your doctor about fasenra.

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the thing about me and adidas is like i committed these [ bleep ] anti-semitic and they can't drop me. i can say anti-semitic things and adidas can't drop me. >> today, adidas dropped him. that was kanye west saying anti-semitic things and that's why adidas dropped him. effectively immediately. it was a decision made lightly. the ten-year partnership, resulted in costing them about a quarter billion in income. the situation became unsustainable for adidas. more than a month, kanye west who goes by ye these days has used interviews and public

appearances to preach hate against jews. one by one, groups with which he fostered relationships have left him, that's except for one, the republican party. the republican party in america has been entirely silent on the issue. despite its role in elevating kanye west to conservative superstardom. now, the gop also faces an issue. issue better late than never will come after adidas condemnation, or green light kanye west's toxic position and anti-semitism so it further takes root. joining us eddie glaude, president of african american studies at princeton university. i have avoided. i did everything in my power, eddie, i did everything in my power, with the kardashians and kanye, with the hate in america.

being emboldened by the silence and complicity of the gop. where are we where adidas has a higher standard for that which is morally repungent against one of the two parties in america? >> well, it reflects the dire state of affairs. we note what's motivating adidas, in fact, the bottom line. they're worried about the effect on the broader profit, even if as profitable as their relationship happens to be with kanye west. what strikes me, though, there's a sense that the republican party, if you consent to the very frame of their rhetoric, their basic commitments, if you consent to their beliefs, they are willing to tolerate anything, it seems to me. and this is just another example of the fact if you believe what will they believe, they will stand by you, no matter what you said. >> and if your haters are part of their coalition, you know,

that was the trump thee was the best explanation trump allies could give, that are stand back and stand by, was because he didn't want to lose the votes, the proud boys. let me read from the l.a. times reporting about kanye west, he has a gazillion followers. read the damage he's doing, brian levin, director of the center for the study of hate and extremism of cal state san bernardino said it's unusual and deeply troubling for such vitriolic hate speech to come from a celebrity of west's caliber. west's words have greater significance because of the high celebrity he is, levin said. this is not a subtle-type of

bigotry, it's more brazen, it's more violent and it's unapologetic. this is enthusiastic violence and a set of policies on the right that are enthusiastic, as we talked about in the last block, armed supporters protecting their space, literally and figuratively. how does kanye sort of make an already really dicey climate, not just around the midterms, but around these issues, even scarier? >> well, you know, when we live in a celebrity culture, and we saw this with the four years of donald trump, right, when we live in a celebrity culture that's driven by social media, driven by instagram and these kind of micro reality shows, it supercharges hate. when a celebrity picks it up, mouths it, gives it authority. justifies it, legitimizes it, so it's very clear what people like kanye can do. they're power, right, deployed for good? or deployed for evil in some

ways. so, i think we have to be clear about how celebrities distorts and disfigures interesting sorts of ways, how democracy works. how the liberation works but you know what, it's also interesting to me, in that it's the way in which likeness is ironically with kanye is consolidating itself. because anti-semitism, alongside white lives matter, all of this is bound up with a crisis of a particular kind of identity, and how certain communities are the objects of it, right, objects of violence there's a reason why tree of life, buffalo, el paso are all related. it has something to do with a crisis of a particular understanding of white identity. you don't have to be white to participate in it. that's the complexity and irony of it, it seems to me. >> claire, when we look at sort of protecting everybody from the

most sort of virulent strains of hatred, we used to be able to count on the parties to referee the most odous content, and it mattered not just because the leaders of the republican served as what was excessive and what was not, where the imaginary lines were. with the complexity, and people on both sides of the kkk rally, republicans have abandoned any rein, when you see kanye west show up on tucker carlson and republican leaders are there the very next night, that they're green lighting the extremism, how do you do it with just one of the country's two political parties? >> yeah.

it's a real head-scratcher. can rupert murdoch think it's okay to put kanye west on fox, who has just said that he's proud of being an anti-semite? def con to the jews, they can't drop me when i say anti-semitic things? is he okay with that? and let's take a walk down the path of marco rubio's brain. he's got a couple weeks before the election in florida. there is a huge jewish vote in florida. now, think about what he's thinking about right now. i'm thinking about the candidate. this guy just does this. is he more worried about the racist vote? or is he more worried about the jewish vote? it's pretty clear to me, he's more worried about the racist vote, than he is more worried about the people that are, you know, slavish in their devotion to donald trump and all the hate that he spewed all that time, than he is to the jewish people

he represents in the senate. i just think this is startling. i can't imagine not rushing to a podium, if this had happened to me in a similar circumstance, and immediately condemning kanye west and all that he represented with that speech. and it is just really hard for me to figure how these folks who look the other way, when this is this bold, full of this much hate. >> and this, you know, on your point, claire, we checked before we came on the air, as of, 3:50/9:30, the house republicans house judiciary republicans had posted on twitter that says this, kanye, elon, trump. this is who they are. eddie and claire, stick around. up next for us, the highly dangerous context of the moment. why kanye's moments are happening?

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. look, he has hundreds of millions of fans. he has literally 31 million followers on twitter. he's one of the most publicly known entertainers in the world, and when he spouts anti-jewish hate again and again and again, it's frightening to jewish people who are already on edge. so adidas is, you know, breaking

with him today is an important step, andrea. i wish they had done it sooner, but i'm glad they're making a clear statement that they're not going to do business with bigots. >> the antidefamation league ceo and national director jonathan greenblatt, a frequent guest on this program, speaking about the decision to terminate with kanye west effectively immediately. i want to put up some numbers. anti-semitic incidents reached an all-time high in the u.s. in 2021, last year with a total of 2,717 incidents of assault, and vandalism reported to the adl, highest number of incidents on record since adl began tracking in '79, an average of 7 incidents per day and a 30% increase year over year. attacks against asian americans are at the highest level since

the attacks have been tracked. the green lighting and mainstreaming, if you will, of racism now comes from sitting u.s. senators at campaign rallies. and i'm thinking, eddie, of the calls i made before i started anchoring the january 6th insurrection. i called a former senior official at the cia, a former senior official at dod and at the state department, what am i covering you, you're watching a violent extremist attack, and you can't turn it around. extremism is countered from within. i'm left wondering how this ends, eddie? who do we reach over to on the other side and ask to help us end this? >> i don't know, to be honest with you. i mean, and i've said this to you over and over again, a choice has to be made, you know, we're -- some of us are longing for our family members not to go to the lynch mob. some of us are longing for people not to -- the people we love not to behave the way

they're behaving, waiting for something to click, when in fact the hate is over run, right, and so part of what is clear in this moment really quickly is that we have to make a choice, and some people that we love are going to choose to be on the side of those who choose to do evil. right? i just watched an amazing film, nicolle, till, and in the film, they depict that there were black men who participated in the murder of that baby. they made a choice. we're all going to have to make a choice, and i think we need to stop waiting to look for folks on the other side to choose to do good and just fight like hell for good from the vantage point we are. that's the only thing that's going to save us. >> you always keep it real even if it becomes painful what the reality is. eddie glaude and claire mccaskill, thank you for having this conversation.

i'm not sure there's anything more important at this moment. thank you so much for spending time with us today. we need to sneak in a break, and we have joy reid with how the issue of gun violence is playing ahead of these all important midterm elections. don't go anywhere. we will be right back. anywhere. we will be right back. you could manufacture a whole new way of manufacturing. you could disrupt buying habits before they disrupt your business. you could fire up a new generation of start-ups.

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that's why pediatricians urge you to vote yes on prop 31. it stops the sale of dangerous flavored tobacco and helps protect kids from nicotine addiction. please vote yes on 31. vote yes on prop 31. with your help, we delivered enormous progress for the nation. more people voted in the last election than any time in american history. the most significant gun safety laws we passed in 30 years, and by the way, i'm coming back, and i'm going to eliminate assault

weapons again. [ applause ] i promise. i did it once. hi, again, everyone, it's 5:00 in new york. with the midterms two weeks away, and the party and the community divide as ever. for issues like gun control, the stakes could not be higher for all of us because the goal of president biden to eliminate assault weapons will be impossible if republicans take control of either chamber, frankly of congress. even though bipartisan gun safety legislation passed earlier this year, it fell well short of what gun control advocates and most democrats wanted, and the gop has shown it is unwilling to do anything else on this issue. take what texas parents saw sent home with their public school children last week. dna kits designed to help parents identify their children, quote, in case of an emergency. the dissemination of these kits is part of a state law that

passed last year, and officials say they were mainly intended to help find children who may have gone missing, but considering that some victims of the horrific uvalde school shooting needed to be identified with dna since their bodies were unrecognizable, it is difficult not to draw the connection. right? a friend of this show and texas resident of 14 years, former cia agent tracy walder wrote this, quote, this sends two messages, the first is that the government is not going to do anything to solve the problem. this is their way of telling us that. the second is that us parents are now forced to have conversations with our kids, that they may not be emotionally ready for. my daughter is 7. what do i tell her? the parents of those children killed in the uvalde shooting are calling on us. they're calling on others to recognize the consequences and the importance and the stakes of these midterm elections. gloria cezarez who lost her

daughter jackie, tweeted about her vote for beto o'rourke. we voted today in honor of our babies and hero teachers. go out and make your voices heard for the ones whose voices were silenced on may 24, 2022. the host of the reidout, my friend and colleague joy reid is here, live in fort worth, texas, ahead of her interview with beto o'rourke, and our dear friend fred guttenberg is here, you know him and love him. his daughter jamie was killed in the parkland school shooting, and fred, i called you when i wanted you to be part of this conversation because you're now the person i need to talk me through three things, when something is actually happening, i want to know if you can help us understand what the families are going through and you always say yes. when the country is

contemplating policies that would prevent this from happening to one more family, and they don't go as far as we know they could go and should go and the public wants them to go, you have this extraordinary capacity for patience with the process, and three, when you look at republicans running on crime, the most deadly places to live in america, the places where gun crime is the worst, where you have the greatest risks of dying are all states run by republicans, so i just need to understand how we communicate that in the two weeks left to go before the midterms. >> listen, the crime argument is the other big lie. and, you know, let's talk uvalde. those families have been heroic because they lost what they love. you can look at a state like texas and every legislative decision they've made the past bunch of years to weaken gun safety laws and draw a straight line from that to dna kits going

home with parents, it is because of them. they did it. it is the reason texas is a deadly state. and so i'll just say this, you know, just the 15, 20 minutes on your show, you were showing some of those showing up at polls with guns because they misinterpret what their right is. and they use the guns to intimidate. you also talked about, you know, where we are as a country with eddie, just before, who's always brilliant. here's where i'm at, nicolle, 30 something percent of this country, they are indoctrinated, radicalized on not changing their mind. but, you know what, i believe the rest of the country does care. i believe they do care about safety. i believe they are horrified by dna test kits, and i believe they want to see president biden

do more. i worked real hard as you know with senator murphy and others on the prior legislation. the reason why it was the bear minimum that we could have hoped for, although still really important was because that was what we had to do to make it even remotely bipartisan. if people want better for themselves, for their kids, for their neighbors, for their friends, for their families, get the you know what out and vote, like your life depends on it. it does. >> joy, i know you're in texas, i know you're speaking to beto. i know uvalde is so fresh there, not just for the families who lost their babies and loved ones, but for voters. tell me how this comes up and what you're hearing. >> you know, it's interesting, i literally just five minutes ago had a conversation with a voter. i didn't ask who they were voting for, i said without telling me who you're voting

for, tell me what's important for you. and the first thing they said was guns, and preserving the right to have them, and it's very important and people feel really passionate about it if they're on that side of the argument, but i can tell you, you know, the other side of that conversation, you know, i'm going to be talking with the founder of moms against greg abbott, and for a lot of the parents, people in this state for whom, you know, sending their kids to 4th grade and 3rd grade is terrifying, their kids, they're scared to go to school. i know beto talks a lot about that because he spent a lot of time with these families, and you know, you and i are both moms and have dealt with kids in school. your kids are younger than mine, nicolle, but i still remember how terrified i was and horrified i was just doing the mass shooting drills where we had to go to a park, you know, and we live not that far from parkland, you know, i lived in pembroke pines, which is 20 minutes from where fred lives,

you know. and the idea of having to drill of where we would go to meet our kids if there was a mass shooting, and how it would work, and how, you know, how we would know whether our kids are survived, it just -- every year that we had to do it, and my kids started doing that in 3rd grade, and when you think about the difference between florida and texas, two states that are very very pro -- let's be clear, marion hammer of the nra runs the state of florida. she's the permanent governor of the state of florida. even florida, after the tragedy that fred and the other parents at parkland faced, florida of all states at least raised the gun, you know, the limit, the age limit to buy an ar-15 to 21. this state, they did the opposite. they actually loosened laws here to allow open carry everywhere. and they are now sending home these dna test kits. i can't imagine -- i thank god a

lot of the time that my kids are grown because i don't know what i would do if the school handed me a dna test kit. i don't know how fred does what he does. i think he's a hero. i'm honored to be on with him. i don't know what i would do. i think i would have a complete break down. i can't imagine being a mom or a dad in this beautiful state, this wonderful state and have the solution from my governor and from my state legislature be that if your child's body is completely destroyed by an ar-15, which is let's be clear, meant to destroy bodies in war, at least you'll have a dna kit. that's savage. and i can't imagine, but that is the solution being offered, and there are voters here who will say they'd rather have that than gun reform. >> fred. >> you know, i want to go back to the person that joy said she

spoke to, who said it's about holding on to their guns. nobody is looking to take them away. that is for me, i think, the big lie that maybe if, you know, joy, you mentioned what i do. i try to talk to people, one by one, everywhere i go, day by day, gun owners and non-gun owners, because this isn't about taking away rights. it's about saving lives and reducing gun violence. the steps to reduce gun violence, it's not rocket science. it's not hard to do, but we've got to get the lies out of the way, and the one way to get the lies out of the way is to start defeating some of these people who tell the lies. greg abbott is one of them. the attorney general in texas, he is one of them. everyone is all focused on uvalde. let's not forget about santa fe, and the way they man handled those families into silence. because they didn't want the truth to come out about santa fe. that's who they are, and the way

to do this is we have to be that majority of the country that shows up and votes. i am optimistic that we will. and i'm going to keep on pushing people to put the lives of those they love first, and to show up at the polls. it's what we need to do. >> let me show both of you how beto o'rourke sought to confront abbott immediately after, and all texas officials immediately after the uvalde massacre. >> you are doing nothing. you need to get out of here, this isn't the place to talk this over. >> this is totally predictable when you choose not to do anything. >> sir, you are out of line. sir, you are out of line, please leave this auditorium. i can't believe you're a sick son of

[ bleep ] come to a deal like this to make a political issue. >> this is on you. >> why don't you get out of here. >> beto o'rourke, for his part, joy, i think risked a lot politically by having that con fronation, it's important to note that that presentation included a presentation of lies. they talked about how they were going to up mental health. texas is last in the country on mental health. it was too late to save the babies slaughtered in uvalde. texas comes in 44, is exactly where they come in. and all of the responses have come undone because at a moment of crisis. at a moment where you had to try to be more than a partisan hack,

all the texas officials did was hand out unreliable information that did not hold up. beto, again in that moment, and i wonder, joy, how that moment shaped the rest of his candidacy. >> i have met a lot of people here who really love beto o'rourke. he definitely has a lot of fans here. we were in dallas yesterday, and we're here in fort worth today, and what people seem to like about him is that, he's very real. he's very willing to confront and i love what fred said, you have to counter. i had a full conversation with the gentleman i spoke with earlier because my sort of pushback is why do you suppose -- there are more gun massacres in the state i'm in right now than any other state in the union. they are number one in gun massacres. >> that's correct. >> and the question that i think a lot of people here are asking themselves is why, why is this state -- i mean, you want to talk about crime. if you want crime to be the issue, this state is number one in rapes, and it's number one in massacres. that's not a thing that you

want. the "dallas morning news" endorsed greg abbott over beto o'rourke, and their reason for doing it, karen went off on them on social media, business, they liked greg abbott, and the business climate he created. you know what, the business climate isn't helped if people around the world know that your state is the most likely state to be massacred and your most likely state to be raped and that in the case of rape, this stays won't allow an abortion. i'm not sure that's good for business. and i think one of the things that you're seeing is people who like beto, what they like about him is he just as a leader of the state would actually make the state more approachable for tourists. would make the state more appropriate for visitors. it's not like fun and comfortable to visit a place where you constantly have to think, do i need to look over my shoulder at church, do i need to look over my shoulder at a shopping mall. do i need to look over my shoulder at walmart. can i feel comfortable walking down the street here. it's a little bit nerve racking.

i have to be honest, and look, i grew up in colorado. i'm not afraid of guns. i'm a gun owner. i'm not afraid of guns. the idea of being in a place where there's one gun for every 14 people. that's more than florida and florida's got a lot of guns. it's something that i can't imagine a newspaper editorial board deciding is good for tourism because i can tell you when people think about gun massacres, my relatives and friends overseas, you know what state they think about, texas. that's the image that texas is projecting to the world. so i think, you know, fred makes a really great point. people have to have these one-on-one, respectful conversations with people who are gun owners and who are getting the lot of propaganda about what someone like beto would do, and someone like joe biden would do, and i think having those conversations is important because i don't think everyone is impenetrable.

i don't think all of them are in the cult. there are some that are in the cult. let's be clear, there's a cult. nobody everyone is in t. i think what we have to do is having a lot more honest conversations not just about the horror but about the impact on our economy, about the impact on the economy of our states. if the image of our states is that they're not safe to visit. >> so, fred, four in ten americans, and this is a university of chicago poll, four in ten americans think it is somewhat likely that they will personally be a victim of gun violence. here's where that's most likely. just the facts today. ten states with the highest gun rate deaths according to the cdc, mississippi, louisiana, wyoming, missouri, alabama, alaska, new mexico, arkansas, south carolina, and tennessee. now, i didn't have time to get to the web sites of all of the state officials. but i'm sure many of them are running on crime if they're up in two weeks. how do you undo the lies that

are told about the threat democrats pose when it comes to crime when the ten states where the highest gun death rates are run by republicans? >> i think, listen, the reporting you're talking about was so important. you have a few weeks where hopefully every one of the media shares the truth because the truth is per capita, those states are deadly. you have more homes per capita with more guns and more violence, and joy, i'm glad to hear you're a gun owner. my father-in-law is a gun owner. this is not about gun owners versus nongun owners, this is about what we can do as a country to stop the straight line to dna test kits. that's what this conversation is about. and so i just think, you know what, nicolle, we need to stop

fighting on donald trump's turf. we need to stop arguing with those that are fully indoctrinated and won't change and keep on talking to those who want to hear the truth, and giving them a reason to vote. that's what we need to do. >> fred, i have to ask you because, you know, last time you were here, you shared with our viewers, you know, the toll that sitting through the trial took on you, and i think a lot of people, to your point, where's the majority? a lot of people want to honor you, they want to honor jamie, they want the honor the families of uvalde, i mean, i cry when i read your tweets and see the pictures of your babies. how do we do that, what do you want people to do in two weeks? >> you know what, nicolle, and your outfit, i want to bring it up. it's orange. that was jamie's favorite color. and it's also the color of the gun safety movement, and because of what happened to my family, i

now honor my daughter's life and i will forever with our foundation, you know, orange ribbons for jamie, all based around the color orange, and honoring things that matter to jamie in life. the last time we spoke was, i think, the day the sentencing happened. >> yeah. >> in the murder trial. i am going to go forward. i'm kicking that monster out of my head. i don't want to give him more space in my head, and i am going to focus on doing the things that matter to jamie and to my family. and hopefully through our foundation, living jamie's life, making sure this country never forgets who she was because she won't have a voice of her own, and along the way, asking every single american who says what can i do for you, or actually answering them, what you can do for me is you can vote. go out and vote for somebody who

understands what gun safety is, who understands what it is we really are trying to do. we're trying to save the life of someone they love. go vote for someone like that. walk away from the bs. walk away the nasty rhetoric and go vote for somebody who wants to make sure you can walk down a street safely or send a kid to school safely. >> joy, i'll give you the last word what are you guys going to talk about? what have you got for beto at 7:00? >> well, you know, i'm going to ask him a lot about this issue because it is something he is passionate about, and how he would frame the argument to someone who is maybe a little persuadable, not hard core, not maga cult, not qanon on what he would do as governor. i think some people who like beto are nervous about him as governor on the gun issue. they're concerned about what would happen, and i think it takes a lot of explaining to people that if you're a licensed

gun owner, this is the vast majority of even nra members, they go and get the license where you have to get a background check and finger printed, so the authorities know you're legit. if you want to buy an ar-15, you can literally walk into a pawnshop and buy one, it's much easier to get the kind of weapon that took jamie away from her dad and her mom. it's so much easier. it's like it's easier than renting a car. as a matter of fact, it's much harder to rent a car. >> sure is. >> i think if you frame it in that way -- i want to ask how he's framing it. i remember being in college and trying to rent a car, and being appalled, they wouldn't let me have it. i'm going to ask him about how he frames the issue of guns to gun owners because i think that's going to be interesting to hear how he's making that case because that is the case, i think, for a lot of persuadable independent voters, that's the case he's going to have to make.

>> nobody makes it better than fred if he needs any tips after you're done. >> i agree. >> this was so important. i really am so grateful to both of you, two of the best of the best humans i know. thank you so much. joy reid and fred guttenberg, thank you so much for starting us off today. you can watch joy's interview with beto at 7:00 p.m. eastern on ""the reidout." more questions from the secret service, they received warning of a death threat against senator chuck schumer on january 6th as armed insurrectionists, they did not immediately pass it along or alert police. that new reporting is next. and basketball superstar brittney griner could be moved to a laborer camp in siberia after a russian court upheld her nine-year sentence on drug charges. it's raising the pressure on president joe biden and his administration to do whatever it takes to bring her home as soon

as possible. we'll get an update on where those negotiations stand. and later, americans increasingly view the supreme court as a political body. now a new story about what justice samuel alito who wrote the decision overturning roe v. wade said behind closed doors during his confirmation that will only do more harm to the court's image. we'll explain. "deadline white house" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. after a quick break. don't go anywhere. be ready for every moment, with glucerna. it's the number one doctor recommended brand that is scientifically designed to help manage your blood sugar. live every moment. glucerna. ♪limu emu & doug♪ it's nice to unwind after a long week of telling people how liberty mutual customizes your car insurance

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we need them fast. i've never seen anything like this. we're like a third world country here. >> so while senate majority chuck schumer and house speaker nancy pelosi were doing that tirelessly working the phones to try to save and protect the country and the capitol from an insurrection while it was happening, a literal attack that threatened not just their lives but our democracy, it was very clear they needed protecting too, or at least someone to properly handle the direct and specific threats against them. it turns out there are more questions today about the secret service on this front. again, it appears they could have done more. my colleague, nbc's julia ainsley has flagged for us, records obtained by the watchdog group citizens for ethics in washington, the secret service received notice of a shooting threat against then senate minority leader chuck schumer. as the capitol was under attack on january 6th but did not pass

it along for more than an hour after receiving it. the secret service held on to a threat it discovered two days before january 6th against speaker pelosi. and they did not notify capitol police until hours after the u.s. capitol had been breached. joining us now, nbc news homeland security correspondent julia answerley. frank figliuzzi is back with us. take us through what we're learning. >> we don't know the contents of the voice mail. we know a voice mail threatening chuck schumer's life with a shooting was left with newsmax, the far right news agency. newsmax passed that along to the secret service. it seems like pretty rapidly on january 6th. but then there was an hour delay, more than an hour, actually, between the time where secret service received that information from newsmax, and the time that they actually passed it on to capitol police, the people on the ground who were really commanding much of the response to the january 6th

insurrection. and so now this group, this watchdog group and others are asking questions about why the secret service did not act earlier, and they got this information through a foia request. this was not information given up front by the secret service or anything we had learned so far from the january 6th hearings. this is new information and crew, citizens for ethics in washington, is saying that this combined with the response to nancy pelosi's threat, as well as threats against vice president mike pence, really combine to paint a fuller picture of why the secret service did not act more swiftly that day. of course, again, we don't know exactly what was happening within that hour and we don't know the contents of that message if that might have played into how they decided to respond, but it certainly raises new questions about the level of threat. we also in the secret service knew from the fbi about the threat even before january 6th, so again, law enforcement

scrutiny about january 6th and why there wasn't more done in the lead up to and in response on that day, when there were such specific credible threats against the lives of lawmakers. >> i mean, frank figliuzzi, i have a million questions but i'm curious what yours are. i mean, to me, investigating the threat can take days. it can take weeks, but responding to and hardening the security around a person who's threatened happens instantly. it happens instantly in the private sector, it happens instantly in most, sort of political levels, local, state and federal. what possible explanation exists for not informing schumer's protective detail of this threat. >> so i can already hear the secret service saying, look, it was an hour or so. now, the crew reports an hour or more, and we don't know, it's not clear to us, but what is

increasingly clear to us is that law enforcement did not work as it should on january 6th or the days preceding it, it's also increasingly clear that the threat level should have been raised. now, i can hear the secret service saying, look, we did leave a message with the capitol police. we notified them, and schumer, by 4:00 p.m., was moved to an off site location. we can see that, by the way, with the video footage of nancy pelosi and schumer, and others that day in a secure location. but it's broken. right? and while we do tend to pile on to the secret service and maybe deservedly so, they protect the president and vice president, they don't protect the other folks. the capitol police should get an equal or greater amount of questions. what happened with the threat against schumer? did the capitol police responsible for his protection and investigating threats against him, did they follow up?

did they arrest somebody? i've not heard of it. maybe somebody should look at that. the fbi should be taking hits, and i'm the first one to say i think they have let us down. they let us down with the amount of threats we know they communicated throughout law enforcement that apparently did not result in hardening the capitol for what, in my opinion, should have been designated a national security special event. we do it for the super bowl. we do it for the super bowl. we don't do it for the peaceful transition of power in our congress, and if we don't learn from these lessons or the january 6th committee doesn't piece together the various dropped balls and worse than dropped balls, maybe even intentional ignorance of threats because they just couldn't see them as threats or somebody was ordering them to look the other way, from a higher level. if the committee does not address those, then the committee has not helped us with

greater understanding of where things went wrong. >> you know, julia, frank is talking about the committee, one of the things we know from the committee is that the ppd, the presidential protective detail was in receipt of or was listening to secret service radio traffic specifically about the armed trump supporters between the ellipse and the capitol. they go through in that very dramatic testimony, guy in the olive pants carrying an ar style, guy in a tree with a revolver. they knew where the armed people were. it seems that the secret service has perhaps an even higher bar to pass because they were the ones in receipt of and eyes on the trump supporters in washington, d.c. that day. what questions do you have as this information just becomes public today? >> a good question that we have been asking and we continue to ask secret service is what was your communication like with

some of those groups responsible for the insurrection leading up to january 6th? we learned through testimony in the oath keeper trial here in d.c. federal court that, in fact, the leader of the oath keepers, stewart rhodes was in touch with someone inside the secret service inside trump rallies in the fall of 2020. now we understand, and nbc was the first to report this, that the january 6th committee wants a record of all communications between secret service agents and the oath keepers leading up to and through january 6th. it seems that so far really all they had was a snapshot of the fall. so the question is, what did the secret service know ahead of time, not just from law enforcement partners but from the people who were planning this violence themselves. these are oath keepers, a group that was staging in a hotel room just across the river, a cadre of weapons. they thought they might need it. what did the secret service know

about that, and i have asked them about the testimony you recalled nicolle, how did people get weapons so close to the white house, and i have been told that they set up the security perimeter, and that anything outside of that, they kind of had to let go. we also know that trump himself said that he wanted to take down metal detectors so people could come and go as they please with whatever weapons they wanted. there are a lot of questions about the security that day, and how these decisions were made, but i think it's really important to know what did they know ahead of time, and how did they respond to that threat, given the information that the secret service might have been privy to in a way that other law enforcement agencies wouldn't have been, while other law enforcement agencies, social media, seems that the secret as much as had a phone line into some of these groups. >> that is unbelievable. may prove to be a really important piece of the puzzle. julia ainsley, frank figliuzzi, thanks for spending time with us on it. when we come back, growing pressure on the biden administration to negotiate the release of basketball superstar brittney griner, the latest on

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not stopping. >> a candid assessment from president joe biden earlier today reacting to the ruling by russian court that denied detained wnba superstar brittney griner's appeal, upholding a nine-year prison sentence, for having cannabis oil in her luggage in february. the wnba all star who pleaded guilty in a bid for leniency will be moved to a penal colony in the next few months. the u.s. has been in negotiations with moscow over a potential prisoner swap with griner and former marine, paul whelan for viktor bout, a russian arms dealer. the president conceded not much has come from the negotiations. "the new york times" is reporting this, there may be a glimmer of hope, according to bill richardson, he said earlier this month he was cautiously optimistic ms. griner and mr.

whelan could be exchanged. joining our conversation, msnbc international analyst, ambassador michael mcfaul. when the nba season started in earnest, all the players seemed intent on really thrusting this into the public consciousness, the president there got a question, but what's happening in russia seems incredibly bleak. what is your assessment? >> nicolle, i don't know. i want to be honest. we're all guessing. i think this tragic day for brittney griner, her wife, her friends, her family, her teammates, underscores that there's no rule of law in russia, and i know many other cases like hers before, i have many friends in jail in russia today, and each one you appear in court, and you hope for a better outcome. and it's always more tragic. just everybody should understand, there's no rule of law. now we're on to the other phase. could they do a deal.

the president didn't sound very optimistic as you said. now is the moment. viktor bout is a person, a real criminal, by the way, let's just be clear about that, but he's somebody that putin values, he wants him out. he did work for the intelligence services so the soviet union and russia, it would be a major achievement for putin politically and domestically to get him out, and that makes me cautiously optimistic that there might be a way to do a trade here. >> i want to also play president joe biden on the dirty bomb sort of ploy in the conversation about this, and get your clarity on that as well. >> the dirty bomb allegations from russia as it relates to ukraine, do you believe this is the beginning of a false flag operation? is russia preparing to deploy a dirty bomb itself or a nuclear weapon? >> i spent a lot of time today talking about that. let me just say, russia would be

making an incredibly serious mistake if they were to use a tactical nuclear weapon. >> the president sharing that he spent a lot of time in briefings on that topic, and a warning, a pointed one. is the question correct, though, is this the russian playbook to accuse ukraine of something you plan to do yourself and should we all be on heightened alert for that? >> it's definitely part of the russian playbook. they do it all the time. they even -- even when they're propagandists say outrageous things, they blame that as being a false flag thing, they're agents of the west. this is a consistent play, doesn't mean it's going to happen. i want to be clear about that. it makes me nervous. you can tell the president is nervous about it, and he should be. his team should do everything in their power, working with people all over the world, including xi jinping, by the way, to try to reduce the probability of the use of a tactical and nuclear

weapon. >> there was a domestic cur -- i was your thoughts on, urging the president to shift his strategy in ukraine. within hours, let me be clear, we are united as democrats in our commitment to supporting ukraine in their fight for democracy and freedom. what do you make of this, and what does it say to you about, you know, the white house needing to sort of project steadiness and steadfast support to the ukrainians but also having to watch, really their flank in both parties and this country. >> nicolle, the war has gone on for a long time. americans don't want to pay forever. they want peace, and the emotional part of the letter i agree with. who's against diplomacy. everybody is against diplomacy. i talked to biden administration officials often, and zelenskyy

administration officials often. they're all for diplomacy. the problem with the letter is it takes two to tango, and they're making a plea, mr. biden do a deal with mr. putin, when putin has shown no interest in negotiating with president biden or president zelenskyy. remember, he signed a piece of paper just a few weeks ago declaring that the territory the size of portugal is now part of russia. and now he's intent on trying to take that territory. he doesn't control it. so until he can be stopped on the battlefield, i don't think the conditions are ripe for a negotiation. and so, again, we all want the end of the war. but we have to be realistic, what are the conditions that will end it, it won't end until putin wants to negotiate, and so far he does not. >> ambassador michael mcfaul, thank you so much for steering us through all of these stories today. we are grateful. our next story will only

worsen the image many americans have of the united states supreme court. it is about one justice, justice samuel alito and what he privately told the late senator ted kennedy during his confirmation hearings. that story is next. done go anywhere. hearings. that story is next done go anywhere medicare supplement insurance plan from unitedhealthcare and get help protecting yourself from the out-of-pocket costs medicare doesn't pay. because the time to prepare is before you go on medicare. don't wait. get started today. call unitedhealthcare for your free decision guide.

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grandchildren, and even our great grandchildren. >> that was the late senator ted kennedy laying out the stakes as he saw them during samuel alito's confirmation hearing in 2006. "the new york times" today reports that the late senator's soon to be published diary from that time shows not only the senator's deep skepticism about alito's trust worthiness as a justice but reveals how the future justice misled the senator about his support for roe during a private conversation with kennedy. the times writes this, i'm a believer in precedence. people find i adhere to that. in the same conversation the the judge in his assurances on roe privacy, he said. i think it is settles. "the times" adds that kennedy broegt up a memo that alito had written that posted of his opposition to roe. justice alito told kennedy he

should not put much stock in the memo. he said he was seek promotion and wrote what he thought his bosses wanted to hear. i was a younger person. kennedy voted against his confirmation. if the judge could configure his believes to get a promotion, how might he desemiable to clinch an appointment to the nation's highest court. joining us now, author of "ten kennedy alive." john, take us through what you've written. >> well, ever since robert boric failed miserably in trying to get confirmed the a supreme court justice back during the reagan years, the pattern for supreme court nominees, especially republican nominees faced with questions about roe v. wade has been to dance around the question and give lots of

hints and nods saying they respect precedent and don't want to upset the applecart and they believe in the right to privacy. but that's only as far as we can go. and then finally last summer, in judge alito's opinion, we got an example of where this kind of pattern can lead us. >> john, gorsuch said at his confirmation hearing, i will tell you roe is precedent. it's been reaffirmed. kavanaugh said casey is precedent on precedent. alito said, the first issue is the issue. roberts says it's settled as precedent. why do we -- are the confirmation hearings going to be examines as ceremonial b.s. fest vams they just lie, make a mockery of the process. >> that's part of the reason i stress this in the book. if boric went down, flamed out

58-42. that was a big defeat. it was a black eye for the republican administration. the republicans felt they had to do something, but we've all -- we're all part of this process, too, and we've gone along with this kabuki dance and we're finally realizing you have to demand more specificity. ted kennedy, for example, voted against judge suitor, who turned out to be a much more liberal judge than expected, just on this issue, because he didn't think that he had been forthcoming in his hearings. >> what is it from reading the diary that is the dead giveaway, if you will, for kennedy that alito was lying in those private meetings? >> there was a 1985 memo alito had written when he was trying to get a job. he was at the reagan justice department at the time trying to get a promotion in which he came out and said one of the proudest things i have been for is we tried to overturn this awful decision, roe v. wade.

and kennedy quizzed him on it, and as you said, as you read, alito came back and said, welsh i was a young guy, trying to get ahead, trying to get a job. and the interesting thing to me in the diary is ted kennedy says to his diary, boy, if he's willing to dissemble on this, how can i believe anything he's going to tell me? and kennedy ended up voting against him. joyce, according to the gallup polling group, 7% of americans have a great deal of trust in the united states supreme court. 7. 22% have none at all. i'm done asking, why don't they care? it's clear they don't care. we can move on to this. here's what justice kagan says. quote, if you have judges and they come on to a court and they say, we're sort of the overthrowing the apparatus and overthrowing legal rules it just starts to not look like law anymore, kagan said.

that could result in a tit for tat situation in the future when other new justices fill the court, fueling jolts to the system that will make it look like a political institution. this is so clear what she's saying. roe and casey have republicans that side and see the rights to privacy. the decision to overturn roe is literally the trump litmus test put into action on the supreme court. >> well, justice kagan highlights a really important truth here, which is that the supreme court is meant to be more than a mini legislature. and this court has stretched the public's confidence in it much too far. it's at the breaking point. we're all used to this sort of dance that you see with judges at confirmation, where they decline to weigh in on some of most controversial topics in front of them, and they say, i can't weigh in on that because that's a case that might come in front of me, and that's a form

of performative theater that i think is regrettable, but it's just baked into these hearings at this point. that's something very different from this sort of outright lie that then becomes a part of the political prospects of the court when -- it invokes changes. that's what dobbs reflects. it doesn't reflect new legal developments, a change in analysis. it reflects this cavalier effort to count votes on the court, and once they had the votes they reversed roe, and it was nothing more than the politics of the event. the court doesn't have an army that goes out and enforces its decision. the court and the rule of law in this country have power because people have confidence they will call the close ones correctly. everybody has their own religious beliefs, their friends, other things like this. we expect to court to set those aside and make decisions based strictly on the law, and alito's

comments made clear when he said this decision roe from egregiously wrong from the start, he meant it all along, even when he lied in his hearing. >> john's new book is out now. one of the many incredible important details in it. john farrell and joyce vance, thank you so much for joining us. quick break for us. we'll be right back. l be rhtig . what will you do? will you make something better? create something new? our dell technologies advisors can provide you with the tools and expertise you need to bring out the innovator in you. (vo) red lobster's finer points of fun dining the tools and expertise you need how to endless shrimp: step 1: greet your shrimp step 2: bid your shrimp farewell. repeat! ultimate endless shrimp is back with new parmesan-bacon shrimp scampi. welcome to fun dining. once upon a time, at the magical everly estate, landscaper larry and his trusty crew... were delayed when the new kid totaled his truck. timber...

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thank you so much for letting us into your homes during these truly extraordinary times. we are grateful. "the beat" with ari melber starts rite now. hi, ari. >> hi, nicoe.