problems that there are four voters who -- i believe what we said in our story, and the beginning of our story, does maggot really stand for making a chinese get attorneys? this was kind of a dark joke that was going around in trump 's inner circle. it is true that if donald trump tries to use his lawyers as tools to do the things that he does not want to do, he often doesn't listen to them, and when he gets into trouble, he wants them to do the things that he will not do. this is a story that has repeated itself throughout the trump administration, and now the post presidency. >> michael schmidt, thank you very much for joining us tonight. we appreciate it. tonight. we appreciate it

i don't understand why anyone signs up for a lawyer for donald trump. it ends the same way. >> i know. it is really wild to watch it happen over and over and over again.er >> and yet -- yeah. so it goes. the wheels keep turning. thank you, chris. and thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. imagine someone writes you a check. you take it to the bank. i you cash it, deposit it, whatever. and then that check bounces. now you didn't where you this check. you had no idea that it wasn't good. well, up in will today, bank as cross the country could charge you for that transaction. you would get charged a fee for being a victim of a fraud. that is a laundry list of junk fees. he announced his administration is cracking down nnon. have you ever shown to the airport and had the flight canceled and then the airline tries to charge you a fee to rebook you on a new flight? to replace the flight that they

canceled? this thing happens. and biden is directing the department of transportation to make rules so o that airlines c no longer do that. have you ever got an internet bill with surprise fees tacked on to it? president biden is making a rule that they have to be transparent in the pricing up front. president biden is telling the ftc the fcc, the department of transportation, even the federal maritime , commission, he's telling all sorts of agency as cross the u.s. government to seek out surprise fees and unfair charges and make them illegal. altogether this effort is expected to save americans tens of billions of dollars a year. most of the rules will not be finalized until at the end of this year. but two of them, fees for cashing bounced checks and

internet fees are in infect as to have day. they're the work of the consumer protection financial bureau founded after the great recessiond to stop the exploitation of consumers. instituting those two rulesco alone should save americans more than aon billion dollars a year. now you would think that something as common as common sense really is would have a chance of being bipartisan. you'd think. but, no. these are letters to the director of the consumer financial protection bureau. the cfpd. they're from last month.fr one is from the republican senator who's arero likely to chair the senate finance committee, the appropriation committee and banking committee showed republicans went back to senate in the mid terms. the other is from the republican congressman who are likely to chair the house financial services and oversight committees, again if, the gop takes back the house. both of the letters are not shy about how much these republicans hate theho work of the cfpb. the house letter ends by saying they are going to use their committees to forcefully

reassert control over the cfpb. in the senate letter specifically defends surprise overdraft fees which they call optional overdraft services. you can't make this stuff up. republicans are, i guess, for surprise overdraft fees. it's not something i thought one could be for but apparently they are. republicans control congress following the mid terms in 13 days with biden in the white house, we canit expect to be cry bills to be vetoed. but even without the power to pass legislation, republicans taking over evenon just the hou would give them a ton of power to wreak havoc. they already floated the idea of holding the debt ceiling hostage and warned that ukraine should not count on continued american support in the form of a blank check. they could obstruct basic legislation just to make biden look weak and they will almost certainly use their power to material the biden administration under the guise of congressional oversight to

conduct investigations and possibly evenve impeachment. some of that has always been expected. that is way to fill fox news air time and sling mud at democrat. the prospect of impeachment, we may want to hear what republicans are saying theirwa planning here. >> i don't know how kamala harris doesn't getw impeached the republicans take over the house. >> last friday, ralph norman of south carolina and i fueled a resolution including impeachment articles for secretary blinken. >> it is time for action.

>> you can expect an impeachment proceeding. >> the house of representatives needs to impeach merrick garland and the secretary of homeland security and we need to have trials in the united states senate on the the abuse of th power. >> do youe expect an impeachme vote against president bide fen republicans take over the house? >> i believe there's a lot of pressure on republicans to have that vote to put that legislation forward and toto ha that vote. i think that is something that some folks are considering. >> wow. >> there is a new piece entitled, the impeachment of joe biden. in it, he argues that after an interval of investigations, republicans in the house are going to impeach joe biden. now that is a major assertion. gelman is right and early about big things like this before.

in september of 2020, in a piece entitled election that could break america, he reported that the trump campaign was discussing contingency plans to buy pass election results and instead appoint loyal lektors in battleground states where republicans control the state legislature. with the justification based on fraud, trump would ask legislators to w exercise power instead to choose a slate of electors directly. that sound familiar? trump claiming victory on election night? trump claiming fraud when it started to look like he lost. and trump using the fake fraud allegations to try to stop the counting of electoral votes. gelman wrote about the plans for all of that in september of 2020. weeks before the election.

>> bart, thank you for being here. >> thank you for having tme. >> i mean -- every time you public something like this i think itbl sends a chill down t spine of most americans or perhaps those watching this television and the person sitting at thisnd desk. you see a strong correlation betweenro election denialism an the lust for impeachment on the part of republican voters. impeachment is correlating closely with the lie. you have actually 68, i think,

percent of republicans that believe that r joe biden shoulde impeached. and a majority believe he will be impeached. >> you have an if a, then b, then c, then d. the end b point is that biden should be impeached. the same way you talk about kevin mccarthy. right now does not say at least openly i'm going to impeach joe biden.ac you also explain the host of various pressure pointsof that e on would be speaker of the house kevin mccarthy. i wonder if can you detail specifically where you thinkyo e most pressure will come fromif e inside his caucus. >> the interesting thing is i don't think that kevin mccarthy wants to impeach joe biden. those on the right of his conference in congress, but he has risen to where he is and

will if republicans win the house risef to speaker of the house on an explicit strategy of never fight it with the extreme right. he bows to everything they ask for. and people like marjorie taylor green, some of the others who showed on screen just a few minutes ago are determined and bound and determined to impeach joe biden. and he is going to lose control of his agenda to those folks. >> he has not proven himself to be one with a ram rod spine thus far. and that's being highly you've mystic. to some degree, it is built in to today's modern republican caucus f you're the speaker of the house, you'll ultimately pledge to the far right-wing of the party. witness paul ryan, witness john boehner. they acquiesced, right? but you also detail, like, the jim jordan of it all. he could be head of the house

oversight committee, you seem ty outline a battle of egos between who's going to be the head of face of the impeachment movement which could be political mana to republican voters.re why does jim jordan fall in line with this impeachment plot to your mind? >> i think that's the right question. and it isti going to be the key leverage point. it's expected he'll run the committee. he is there for on a part of mccarthy's leadership team and has an institutional vested interest in making sure that things go smoothly and according to man. and he has been carefully hedging his public comments

about impeachment saying it would be something that the whole republican conference could get behind before they did that. but the problem for him is he always wanted to be on the front line of confrontation with joe biden and the democrats. >> he lived there pretty well. >> he boxed o thought terrain. >> yeah. >> and he's not going to want to letg himself be outflanked by greed, by those folks. as soon as impeachment starts to build up any kind of steam at all, he's going to realize if he doesn't take control of it and make sure to stake his claim as committee chair, then it's going to getch away from him. and that's when kevin mccarthy loses control of his caucus. that's when he can no longer stop the push toward impeachment. >>h the push towards impeachme. >> people watching us discuss tc this. you haven't talked about what he

could get impeached for. and what is interesting in the article is that's the part of this that seems like it's the detail, right? it's not just -- it's really not an academic debate over what's ante impeachable offense. its just what vehicle can we use to get to this end point which is the p impeachment of preside joe biden? but let us, for the purposes of full explanation and resuscitation of this article, explore those reasons why republicans at present think they can impeach joe biden. there is hunteren biden, afghanistan withdraw, moratorium over covid and then joe biden tapping into the strategic oil reserve. i'm not a constitutional scholar, but none of those thickse sound like they're impeachment worthy s that a consideration athy all inside t caucus or according to the republicans you spoke with? >> you have to look at it several waysoo on that.

first of all, high crimes and misdemeanors mean whatever congress wants it to mean. there's no legal standard that requires that a certain threshold be passed. none of the things rise to an impeachable offense. but that won't stop them. ted cruz said it doesn't matter what grounds there. said he'll be impeached whether justifiably or not. out of revenge. if if the democrats can weaponize impeachment as republicans see it against donald trump, then there is no reason why republicans can't do the same against biden. >> well that's what this is at the end of it, right? revenge. let's not forget the motor in

all of this is donald trump. how much do you think an indictment from merrick garland is going to play into the timing of all this and the vigor with which trump and his republican allies pursue impeachment? i don't think impeachment will come first quarter of new year. they're going to go through a bunch of investigations. momentum will start to build. first of all, the base is going to demand it. if the investigations find dirt on biden, if justification hurt the president, then the basis is going go in for the kill and finish the job. the one person who does have the most control over the republican

caucus is donald trump. i don't want say that, you know, one post on truth social controls the agenda. but if trump decides that he wants to see biden impeached and pushes for it with the base behind him, that's going to be a influence that the republican leadership and the houseep can' really resist. it's going to come down to a precipitating event. the one youec mentioned is certainly a likely one f trump gets indicted, he has already threatened there is violence on the street. but he always deflects charges against him on to someone else. he will want to see the same thing happen to his successor. and, yeah, i think if he's hi

indicted, that will be a pretty strong moment to expect it. >> the terrifying certainty of barton gelman and writing for then atlantic. i don't even know what to say except thank you for alerting us to what may be our inevitable future. barton gelman. thank you for making time for me. still ahead, three men have been convicted of supporting a plat to kidnap democratic michigan governor gretchen it with myrrh. michigan attorney general will join me live to talk about that and her race for re-election against an election denier. and how a brutal attack in florida is drawing attention to a connection some republicans i that state have to the far right. but next, we're officially less than two weeks out from election day. and democrats are worried about where they stand with voters of color. we'll have a guest to talk about what the group is doing to turn them out this election. what the group is doing to turn them out this election

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$. gretchen whitmer is michigan tough. she fought for tuition free higher education and jobs skills training, paved the way for the new car plant in detroit in decades and leading on next generation battery and micro chip manufacturing. she is creating for toerve get

ahead. we can't let up. the stakes too high. governor it with myrrh, keep moving michigan forward. >> that was a new ad released yesterday fosh gretchen it with myrrh and re-election campaign. obama is campaigning with when it myrrh this weekend, part of a pretty halloween blitz from the former president who is set to hit the trail for democratic candidates in georgia on friday and wisconsin on saturday. dispatching the party's closer is a necessary strategy for democrats worried about turning out their base and particularly worried about turning out black voters, an essential part of the coalition. in a recent poll, 25% of black registered voters said they were extremely enthusiastic about voting in this election. 12 points lower than white voters and 10 points below hispanic voters. as one michigan democrat told us, what i'm concerned about is there doesn't seem to be a lot of energy. the democratic groups are trying to solve for this quickly.

priorities usa incested $7.8 million this cycle aimed at black voters in pennsylvania, arizona, michigan, nevada, wisconsin, georgia, and new hampshire. the group spent another $4 million on engaging latino voters and they're on the airwaves running adds targeted at black voters, ones that speak directly to the concerns of voters of color who feel left out or even taken advantage of the democratic party. like this ad. they ask their base to vote harder as republican continue to chip away at personal freedom and democracy. >> i'm tired of folks telling us just vote. the truth is, they're coming for our rights, our people, you. so, no, just vote won't fix everything. but that's no excuse to do nothing. so make a plan to vote today. >> joining us now is guy cecil.

thank you for joining me. >> thank you for having me. >> so what can you tell me, us, about why specifically voters of color, black voters, are not excited about this election, especially at a moment when it feels like racism is on full display. the calls towards christian nationalism and white supremacy are explicit? why is there a lack of energy coming from this part of the democratic base? >> first, i think it's important to recognize that as might be obvious, i don't speak for black voters. but i think it's important to recognize that, you know, a year ago we saw actually 12, 14, 17 point differences between white and black voters. on whether or not they're more enthusiastic about this election. over the course of the year, we have seen in our internal polling, the numbers closed to 5, 6, 7 points. the reality is for democrats to be successful, we have to build

a diverse, broad based coalition black, latino, young, lgbtq voters, white voters and many of the states and many of those voters are on line. s i don't think politicians are doing enough for them. they're exhausted by politics. they thought this -- many voters thought they did what they needed to do to win and to have results delivered to them. it's our job to make sure we're not centering the candidates in our ads. we're centering the vote rz and trying to connect the thing thez care about with voting over the course of the next two weeks. >> that was almost an apologetic -- like the strategy behind that was apologetic. we know you think we have taken you for granted. but you still have to do. this explain to me a little bit of the psychology of an ad like the one we just played. >> the most important thing that you can do is to treat voters like they are smart, thoughtful

people. who engage in their life in a meaningful way n a thoughtful way and not to tell them something they intuitively believe is not true. so our number one job is to meet voters, whether they are black, white, hispanic, young, black, old, exactly where they are. it's hard to find a republican or democrat that is happy with the way our politics is working for them. our job is to meet people where they are and do what he with can. as joe biden says, compare me to my opponent, no the to theal mighty. that's a lot of what our advertising is trying to do. the. >> they're coming for you. your advocate ads say they're coming for you. >> that's right. >> what -- how has abortion played among, you know, as you look at democratic voters, it looks like there are different ways to talk about abortion, two different subsets of the

democratic electorate. when it comes to hispanic voters and when it comes to black voters, how are you seeing those trend lines different? how you are seeing the data different than the way in which democrats talk to white voters, white sfwhim. >> sure. >> one thing i think that people have been misreading in the public polling is you ask a question, what is most important to you? the economy usually comes first. people think that abortion is not a deciding factor in this election. when you look at every poll since the leak of the dobbs decision, what we found is increased enthusiasm by black and latino voters because of the decision. and it fits with what they believe about republicans, they're extreme. extremists attack the capitol. extremists want to get rid of soshl security and medicare. extremists want to make sure

that the government cannot negotiate prescription drug prices. they want to control a woman's right to choose. so this fits into a pattern that they understand about republicans. of course, there are going to be conservative latinas that have a different view about choice. the same way there are conservative whites that have. but or job is to connect it with the larger fight between democrats and republicans that they are extremists at every turn and fail to take into account the views of black had a, latino, young, and frankly white voters around the country. >> so you're saying abortion is like a proof point in the argument rather than the argument itself? >> it's both. for many people, its a core argument. but for others, it is another way for us to connect the extremism of the republican party with other issues. if you believe that republicans are extreme about choice and about controlling the right of a woman over her own health care, you're also more inclined to

believe that they would do things like keep prescription drug prices high. these are all interconnected. they're not separated in a way that we think about polling. >> well, i don't know that we think about them as separated so much as i am not -- do you feel like democrats in this midterm season have been making the kind of broader argue bment extremism? it feels at least from the ads we've seen and the spending we've seen that they're focused on the abortion issue itself. i'm not saying that is necessarily wrong. i'm trying to understand the way in which you think that is folded into this broader narrative. >> there is no question that the issue of choice is a primary message from democrats. but i think added together with all of the other issues, it helps us affirm a primary into you tough argument about the trump republican party. which is they are extremists about a whole range of issues. this is just another thing, another thing they're going to do to make your life more difficult. i also think, by the way, just as an aside, it's important to recognize that way that you know how republicans think they can win this election is how they're

spending their money. >> yeah. >> so the senate leadership fund. when you look at how they're spending against john fetterman, their spending -- it's about taxes and the economy. when they talk about sherry beasley, it's about crime. explain to me why the majority of money being spent against white senate democrats is on the economy and the majority of money being spent bens black senate democratic candidates is on crime? >> riddle me that. i think i know the answer. race based strategy. also known as racism. guy cecil, thank you for your time and thoughts. we have much more ahead this hour. the conviction of three michigan men for their role in a plot to kidnap a democratic governor is part of the backdrop for this consequential election in november. the attorney general whose office secured the convictions is fighting to retain her seat and retain the rule of law in michigan. she joins me to talk about that and more. but next, one story out of florida this week is drawing attention to the ties between

members of the florida gop and some far right activists and white supremacists. stay with us. supremacists stay with us

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. there is a increasingly national attention on a terrible story out of florida in which it appears that a guy who was out

doing political canvassing he was attacked and beaten up in miami-dade county. the reason this gained national attention is because of a tweet from florida republican senator marco rubio who shared what he said were photos of the victim of the attack wearing a rubio campaign shirt. rubio claimed in his tweet that victim had been attacked because he was a republican canvasser. now the senator appears to have gotten a little bit out in front of the known facts on this one. the police have two men in custody for the attack and they have said there was no indication it was politically motivated obviously, it's a terrible thing. no one should be physically attacked, period. but once he put the pictures of the canvasser og social media. it opened another story about florida politics. this he saw that guy's picture and they said, hey, wait a second, don't we know that guy?

>> we're blerng a man that was tacked on sunday. we first interviewed him of high leah in 2017. we were covering a story about changing the names of street signs and honored confederate generals and one time leader of the kkk. this is him holding a confederate flag. he got into a shouting match with the crowd. police arrested him and chaged him with disorderly conduct. >> that is the person, the victim of an attack. a few days earlier he was in charlottesville, virginia. here he is at that rally. pledging to die for the south and repeating the rally's mantra, they will not replace us. mr. monzone has his own page

which tracks hate groups including the white supremacist group league of the south of which he was a member. the things he posted on 2017 about jewish people are so vile i'm not going to share them with you. and all of that as far as we know has nothing to do with the violent attack that mr. monzone suffered this week, an attack roundly condemned as it should be. but the publicity that marco rubio brought to this guy who rubio says was canvassing for campaign led to the revelation that christopher was on the payroll of the florida republican party through at least last month. the florida gop paid christopher over $10,000 over the last several months. why is this white supremacist unite the white rally charging at people with confederate flags guy, why he is on the payroll of the florida republican party? we reached out to the florida gop and to marco rubio's cam bane to ask them that and we

have not heard back. but maybe it's because folks with that kind of history are increasingly finding a home in the florida republican party. "the new york times" reported this sum better the tightening grip that groups like the proud boys have been gaining on the miami-dade gop. until recent will he he was a member of the miami-dade republican executive committee. he claimed to the times that he has been on page to deradicalization and his disavowed his previous racist ideology. but when he ran unsuccessfully for city council last year, he maintained his on line ties to the white supremacist league of the south. the miami new times reports that when members of the media were invited by him and his family to interview him at the hospital this week, they were blocked from his room by proud boys. so again, there are still a lot of questions to be answered about this awful violent attack this week. the police are investigating.

there have been arrests. maybe we will eventually know whether senator rubio's claims this was a politically motivated attack, maybe we'll know whether the claims are accurate. but separate and apart from that, there are questions that need to be answered about why a guy with a violent white supremacist history is being paid by the florida republican party. florida gop. you okay? florida gop. you okay

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convictions under michigan's anti-terrorism law. and also a victory for the rule of law in the safety of all michiganders. the prosecution of these cases prevented horrific acts from taking the lives of innocent people. my office will not simply sit idly by and watch while armed terrorists plan unrest with the intent of causing mayhem. >> michigan attorney general dana nessle thanked prosecutors from her office who tried a case against three men accused of assisting the plot to kidnap michigan governor gretchen whitmer. each faces 20 years in prison. these men were members of an anti-government group called the wolverine watchmen that wanted to help kidnap the michigan governor over covid health protocols and wanted to start a

civil war after 2020. those men were among the 14 arrested in october of 2020. those were the men her office spent two years building a case against and those are the men who will finally face jail time, maybe setting an example for other civil war watchmen. so what she and her office did a big deal. it is also a big deal she's up for re-election in two weeks. and she not guaranteed to win. she's ahead by four points which is a significant drop from her nine point lead in september. her opponent is an attorney named matt deperno, an election denier currently under criminal investigation by the michigan attorney general's office for his efforts to substantiate false claims of 2020 election fraud. yes, you heard that right. he is running for the office but

is currently considering charging him for a crime. they're prosecuting the most important cases in the nation and many up for re-election in november. like in minnesota, residents are still struggling to the aftermath of george floyd's murder, the attorney general is up for re-election. his office prosecuted former officer derek chauvin for murdering floyd, the first conviction of a white officer for murdering a black person. ellison's opponent is running on a platform criticizing him for the reform policies he endorsed after floyd's murder. he accused him of funds for police which increases crime. they're currently tied. in texas, republican state attorney general ken pachlton is run forg re-election.

this is the man running against michelle garza. a recent "dallas morning news" poll shows garza seven points below paxton. it looks like he is going to run away with this one. the stakes here are high for the entire country. election experts worry that paxton maintaining his seat could spell real trouble if he runs in 2024. these races are a big deal. they'll determine who the top law enforcement officials are in each states who can bring criminal and civil suits for the state. who can potentially challenge election results like ken paxton did in 2020. election day is in 13 days. joining us now is dana nessel, her office prosecuted the three men convicted today. thank you so much for being here tonight.

let me just, first, congratulate you on securing the convictions. bringing wrong doers to justice. i have to ask you as someone who is involved in this plot to kidnap the governor so early on, i think of that as kind of the preamble to january 6. this idea that an armed group of radicals were going to capture prominent officials who weren't doing their bidding and otherwise stoke violence and mayhem in terms of policies as retribution for policies they didn't like. do you think the country paid enough attention to awhat was happening in the state of michigan just months before the election? >> well, i said that even before that occurred. april 30th of 2020, you remember that armed individuals took over our state capitol in lansing. and it turns out that was really a meeting place for manufacture the individuals who later became

involved in the plot to kidnap and assassinate governor whit whitmer. so, yeah, i think a lot of that originated in michigan. but it's permeated throughout the united states. >> the implications here for someone like matt deperno taking over the a.g.'s office, in a state like michigan write believe there are two to three dozen militia groups head quartered in the state, can you paint a picture of the implication of someone else, not you, in charge of what could be a hot bed of domestic terrorism? >> it's not just anyone else. we're talking about about a person who has called these proceedings a sham. even though, you know, these convictions were in jackson county. this was not just a threat to

governor when itmer, it is to individuals in all people in my state. they want to cause murder and mayhem and chaos to our officials and local law enforcement as well. they weren't republicans. they weren't trumpsters. they were anti-government insurrectionists who wanted to do as much damage as possible. but that being the case, my opponent has said that he believes the fbi orchestrated all of this. in fact, he called the members of the wolverine watchmen an teva which we know is ridiculous. but the concern i have is this. we still have five more defendants to be tried in our county. and i think my opponent made it very clear that if he succeeds me, you know, he'll dismiss those cases. i think he'll abolish my hate crimes and domestic terrorism unit in the entirety which is needed more now than ever. >> let me ask you one more question about the implications

here. we're looking at an election that could see historic record number of election deniers elected into positions of secretary of state. we're talking about election deniers as attorneys general. what is your expectation for the post november landscape? first of all, there could be cries of election fraud. but in terms of groups that want to see institutions undermind and would like to change our democratic way of life, if you will, i mean, what are you put preparing yourself for in a state like michigan? >> i have someone who is an attorney general, the top law enforcement officer in our state be as lawless as the person that i'm running against who seeks to undermine democratic elections. and undermine the will of the voters. who doesn't respect the law himself. you know? call me old fashioned. i think that an attorney general should prevent and prosecute acts of domestic terrorism, not

support and encourage them. >> dana nessle, we'll keep a close eye on your race. thank you so much for your time. >> we have one more story to get to tonight. remember florida governor ron desantis' recent political stunt flying venezuelan migrants to martha's vineyard? it is coming back to bite him in a spectacular fashion. that is next. stay with us. a spectacular fash. that is next stay with us i'm jonathan lawson here to tell you about life insurance through the colonial penn program.

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and now an update from the strange parallel universe of governor ron desantis' florida. it's not a week since the judge dismissed charges in the fraud charges he announced with considerable fanfarement to day another court is slapping down the governor's attempts to hide details behind another pet project, migrant flights. a judge ruled that governor desantis violated the state's public records law by withholding information linked to those flights from texas to martha's vineyard in september. the flights tracted a lot of attention and record requests and lawsuits especially about how those flights were coordinated saying as the migrants came from an entirely different state, texas. the governor turned over some documents last week, we learned that his chief of staff and his public safety czar worked together to transport the migrants. now thanks to the judge's order,

we'll good et to see more phone and text logs from the governor's chief of staff and presumably learn even more. the judge has given governor desantis 20 days to hand the logs over, dismissing arguments from the governor's attorneys that they should be allowed to turn them in on december 1st. according to a previous record request, december 1st is also the new proposed date by which the transport of another 100 migrants could take place. from florida to delaware or illinois or some other state where democratic presidents have come from. that does it for us tonight. we'll see you again tomorrow. "way too early" with jonathan lemire is coming up next. it's sad i cannot show my face or use my name for fear of preprizal against myself, my