what i'm going to do. >> utah senate candidate evan mcmullin, thank you very much for being on the show. i appreciate it. i should note that we have also invited mr. mcmullin's opponent, senator mike lee, to come on to talk with us. we would love to have him. senator lee, you're welcome anytime. we have not heard back, at least not yet. that does it for this hour. a very busy one of msnbc. a lot of developing news, a lot of breaking news. we're going to put the highlights from the show and any new reporting up on twitter @hallieonmsnbc. and as always you can find me on our streaming channel for nbc news, nbc news now. tonight and every weeknight, just about an hour from now for show number two, 5:00 eastern. nicolle wallace picks it up with "deadline: white house" right now. hi, everyone. it's 4:00 in new york. a horrific attack on the husband of speaker nancy pelosi at their san francisco home. it's a stark and scary reminder of the threat environment in which lawmakers now do their

jobs in and live in day in and day out. paul pelosi, he is the husband of speaker pelosi, was violently assaulted during an early morning break-in by an assailant who was reportedly searching for nancy pelosi. a source telling nbc news that mr. pelosi was home alone when the attacker broke in. the attacker was armed with a hammer. paul pelosi reportedly suffered multiple blows to the head and is currently in surgery. the speaker was in washington, d.c. at the time of the attack. as for the assailant, he is in the custody of the san francisco police department. officials say he will face a number of charges including attempted homicide. the motivation for the attack is still under investigation at this hour, but a look at his digital footprint reveals he posted a whole host of conspiracy theories including anti-establishment ideas as well as anti-semitism and vaccine conspiracies. this attack is raising questions about the security of our lawmakers and their families in this incredibly tense time in

our country, with just 11 days to go before the midterm elections and the threats against office holders at a record high more than a year and a half after the january 6th insurrection. with lawmakers having to deal on a daily basis with stalkers, with people making armed visits to their homes as well as vandalism and assaults. the capitol police investigated more than 9,600 threats in 2021, and in the first quarter of this year alone capitol police opened more than 1,800 cases around threats made to elected officials. few lawmakers have faced as many of those threats as the leader of the house democrats, speaker pelosi. she's such a prominent critic of the ex-president that the mob that stormed the capitol in support of donald trump and his plot to overturn the 2020 election specifically went hunting for nancy pelosi. listen. >> nancy!

nancy! nancy! >> bring her out here! we're coming in if you don't bring her out! >> nancy! oh, nancy! nancy! where are you, nancy? >> that moment of extreme peril on that day for speaker pelosi sadly serves as an eerie echo, a parallel to today. a source telling nbc news that the attacker who confronted her husband, paul pelosi, was shouting this, quote, "where's nancy? where's nancy?" that's where we begin the hour. former fbi counterintelligence agent pete strzok is here. also joining us jake sherman, co-founder of punchbowl news, as well as an msnbc political contributor. former democratic senator and

msnbc contributor our friend claire mccaskill's here. and out in san francisco outside of the pelosis' home is nbc news correspondent jake ward. jake, i start with you. tell me everything we know at this hour. >> well, nicolle, the accounts of the attack are as follows. we know that paul pelosi, a man in his 80s, was sleeping home alone at the house you see behind me when an attacker broke in through the back yard window using a hammer. that was 42-year-old david depapp according to san francisco police department officers. mr. depapp comes in and attempts to tie mr. pelosi up, telling him "we will wait here for nancy." and somehow mr. pelosi has the presence of mind to at a moment when mr. depapp is distracted actually dial 911 and get police summoned to the scene. it is then when police arrive that the attacker in fact tells

them, according to officers, we're waiting for nancy. then somehow a struggle ensues. mr. depapp gets a hammer away from mr. pelosi and strikes him with it in the head multiple times. of course at that point he's attacked and -- i'm sorry, tackled and taken into custody. and mr. pelosi is transported to zuckerberg hospital where at this hour he is undergoing surgery. zuckerberg hospital is where you go in the city when there is the need for a serious trauma center. we do not know the nature of the surgery or the nature of his injuries, but the pelosi family says that they are praying for him and that he is, again, in surgery at this very hour. we have seen officers from san francisco police department -- excuse me, detectives from the department as well as fbi agents and capitol police officers going in and out of the home and canvassing the area. the big questions at this point, how is paul pelosi and what were the specific motivations of this man, david depapp, nicolle?

>> jacob, do we have any indication that there was any heightened sense of threat against the pelosis or any heightened security around their home? >> well, the thing to understand here is in fact the normal security detail that is given to members of congress is not afforded to members of their family. so only the one -- only the one member of congress is in fact protected at the time. if nancy pelosi had been here at the time neighbors say you would have known it. and in fact mr. depapp would have walked headlong into an armed security detail. instead she was gone and there was not actual in-person bodyguards on the premises. we do know that there are some monies made available to members of congress to fortify their home. it's not clear how much of that was spent in this case. but there was no one else at home. again, this is a man in his 80s asleep in his home attacked by this random stranger who breaks in with a hammer and does

terrible damage to him in the presence of police, nicolle. >> jake, i want to play what the sfpd chief had to say about how they came to confront the attacker. >> at approximately 2:27 this morning san francisco police officers were dispatched to the residence of speaker nancy pelosi regarding an a priority well-being check. when the officers arrived on scene they encountered an adult male and mr. pelosi's husband, paul. our officers observed mr. pelosi and the suspect both holding a hammer. the suspect pulled the hammer away from mr. pelosi and violently assaulted him with it. our officers immediately tackled the suspect, disarmed him, took him into custody, requested emergency backup and rendered medical aid. >> so jacob, it sounds like a

priority well-being check. it sounds like it wasn't clear from the 911 call what the nature of the situation was there. do you have any reporting on what law enforcement anticipated they were walking in on or was it just a 911 call that they were responding to? >> well, a priority well-being check is one of those sort of technical sounding terms that in fact belies a very urgent call. that's the kind of call in which police officers fire up the sirens, go through lietsd and get there as quick as they can. in fact, mayor london breed reached out and thanked personally the 911 dispatcher who was responsible for that return because in theory that dispatcher made possible the extremely quick response of police according to the mayor. one big unanswered question here is exactly the sequence of events. it sounds as if the attacker according to family members was in fact talking to police and saying we are waiting here for nancy and that the violence took place once police were on the scene. it's not exactly clear what the sequence of events here is.

that's certainly going to be something we're going to be looking at in the days ahead. but again, the big question here on everyone's mind, certainly in this neighborhood, is how is paul pelosi? he's in surgery right now. what kind of recovery will he make and what kind of injuries did he sustain in this attack, nicolle? >> jake ward, i know you've been on the story and reporting for all of us all day long. thank you for starting us off today. jake sherman, i'm coming to you first. take me inside speaker pelosi's day, if you have any reporting on when she found out or how she found out and how quickly she's been able to be there to be with her husband. >> a lot to unpack here, nicolle. number one, she is on the way if not having already landed in san francisco. she was in washington. as you can imagine, this is a very busy time of the year for her with the campaign season in full swing. she told me a week -- i spoke to her last about a week ago. she told me she'd been in like five states in two days. so this is something that she -- or five states in three days or

something like that. this is a time of the year where she's all over the country. that's number one. i know at the white house they found out around 7:00 this morning, which is just a little bit after an hour -- a little bit more than an hour after the incident happened and police responded. i'm not sure when pelosi found out. but there's a few things we need to dig into here and i'll try to do it quickly. number one, nancy pelosi has a massive security detail. many, many, many people. she's never without it. she is the only congressional official i think -- actually the senate president tempore also has a 24-hour security detail because they're in line to the president of the united states. so she's always protected whether she's in washington, san francisco or elsewhere. the capitol police department has been really struggling over the last year or two since the january 6th attack specifically, they've had to put out -- give many members of congress security details.

they've had a spate of retirements over the last year or so. people don't want to serve in the capitol police force because i think of january 6th and other things. and they've expanded their reach. they've opened satellite offices across the country. they have officers at the airport. this is a police department that's really stretched thin. this is my personal view. it's just astounding to think that the spouse of the number three official in the most powerful country in the world is sitting at home, an 82-year-old is sitting at home sleeping without any real security. i mean, this is a horrible incident. absolutely terrifying and awful. but you just start thinking about all the other things that could happen to somebody like that. he could be kidnapped. this is somebody, nancy pelosi, who sees the most secure intelligence on planet earth. and her husband is sitting at home as an 82-year-old without any protection? to me it's very, very strange. and i'm sure it's going to be examined. in fact, we broke in our midday edition today that the capitol police department is doing a

review for a number of high-ranking congressional officials in the wake of this attack. and i just know i've gotten calls from a lot of members of congress today and one said to me spouses are very, very panicked because not everyone is nancy pelosi, nicolle, but you think about a rank-and-file member of congress who's a big figure in their community, their wives or their husbands are sitting at home sleeping. yes, they might have money to outfit their home and harden the security in their home but anybody could do this to any spouse, god forbid, and it's just terrifying when your husband or wife is in washington, you're sometimes thousands of miles away, and you're basically a sitting duck. so it's terrifying to think about. >> jake, i want to hear more about that. and specifically, i mean, i worked in the executive branch and a president's entire family is protected including their children. are there calls to re-examine the scope of who is protected?

>> there have been calls dating back to 2010. i remember. and many of your viewers will remember during that tea party wave in 2010 there were a spate of incidents at town halls across the country and at campaign offices across the country. then we had the horrifically tragic shooting of gabby giffords and the tragic shooting of steve scalise. thank god both of those lawmakers survived those shootings. but we've heard calls for the last decade or so to give every member of congress a security detail. that's improbable if not impossible just because of the scope of the resources, nicolle, that that would take to protect members of congress. 535 police officers. but what the capitol police has done is they've expanded to give lawmakers security when they're going through airports. they say they coordinate more intensely, intensively with local police departments to ensure the security of members of congress. but i think we could say in this

instance obviously, this is a spouse, so not every spouse should get it, but you can make the argument and many people have made the argument today to me that he should also -- the speaker of the house's husband should also have a security detail. but yes, the answer's absolutely yes, we've heard lots of calls, public and private, over the last decade to increase security for members of congress. >> pete strzok, the assailant walked into the pelosis' home and said "where's nancy?" and according to reports was tying up paul pelosi, her husband, quote, until nancy got home, end quote. speaker pelosi was the target. the victim tragically last night was her husband of this brutal assault. tell me your sort of initial assessment in terms of what we know and what your questions are moving forward. >> well, nicolle, my initial assessment is this is unfortunately not surprising at all. i mean, we have been talking for years, you know, certainly prior to january 6th about the

increasing agitation and calls for violence or violent imagery inevitably was going to lead to people, certainly those who are on the fringes, to take action. and i'm not surprised sadly that we've seen this, and sadly i have to say i don't expect this is the end of it. but what's going on right now, in the san francisco area i think from a crime scene perspective, from an investigation perspective there's a tremendous amount going on focused on two broad areas. one is everything at the pelosi residence, all of the neighbors, all of the cctv coverage, all of the evidence within the scene that needs to be gathered, the hammers, fingerprints and everything of that nature that exists at the crime scene. the second thing is going and looking at mr. depape and the investigation there, looking at everything about his life and unpacking that. i assume authorities will he very quickly and probably already have obtained a search warrant to search his house and to go after things and seize his phones, look at his social media, look at his financial records to see what he was doing

online, who he might have been in contact with, whether that's online in social media fora, whether that's via text message, whether that's via phone, and putting together a complete picture of who he is, what his motivations were, whether or not he he was in contact with anybody to develop a very full picture. it seems from your reporting that this is something that the local authorities are going to be pursuing criminal charges and that the fbi certainly will be supporting that in a significant role. but absolutely there are broader lessons to look at here in terms of what caused this radicalization. what were the things. and certainly the reporting is that all of the sort of mantra of the far right from qanon to anti-vaxxing to voting fraud to the litany of causes that we have seen on the far right are things that mr. depape have posted online. so to the extent there are lessons that can be drawn here about what if anything can be done to prevent other violence by other people is certainly something that authorities are

are looking at. but i'm afraid the short answer is there isn't anything. short of a universal condemnation of violence of this we're not going to do much to dial down the potential for violence. but what we're seeing today, and speaker pelosi's husband in the hospital is just the harbinger of more things to come. >> that is so ominous. jake sherman-i saw your hand go up. did you want to jump in on this? >> yeah. the people -- i agree with much of what mr. strzok said. but people that i've spoken to today anticipate federal charges. i mean, there's federal statutes that indicate you cannot go after, you cannot threaten or assault a spouse or family member of a member of congress in relation to their duty. and the people that i've spoken to on capitol hill today suggest that this was, because this person was yelling "where's nancy" in connection to her federal duty, i will defer because he's the former law enforcement officer, but the people that i've spoken to indicate they expect federal charges here. >> pete?

>> that's good to know. there is a federal statute, i think it's title 18 usc 115 if i'm not mistaken that's exactly what jake laid out. i had not heard that -- i had seen discussion of that but i hadn't seen reporting that it was also -- that federal charges might be pending. but that's good. i mean, this statute absolutely lines up with the events that we saw overnight and are seeing today. in that case the locals along with federal prosecutors will work hand in hand to kind of give an assessment of which crime better fits the charges, who should take the lead, and that's something that goes on on a routine basis across the country. so i anticipate we'll get some much better sense of who is taking the lead and going first or simultaneously in the days ahead. >> claire, i want to bring you in on this. we're going to get through every wrinkle and fold that is known to us at this hour. obviously, we're not too many hours after the attack itself. but congressman adam kinzinger tweeted this.

"i'm waiting forpt police briefing but i want to be clear. when you convince people that politicians are rigging elections, that they drink babies' blood, et cetera, you will get violence. this must be rejected. this is why the january 6th committee is so important." you know, the elephant in the room is one of the two political parties with the exceptions of adam kinzinger and liz cheney have by and large tried to whitewash the violent insurrection during which they were hupth nancy pelosi and screaming get her out here, that video we showed at the top. the lack of condemning the violence has as much to do with inciting it and greenlighting it and normalizing it as the inciters do. >> well, let's also talk about the big lie, nicolle. one of the -- if in fact the social media that i read today from this individual included a post saying that any journalist who said the election was not stolen, any journalist who had the nerve to say that there was

no fraud in our election should be drug out on the street and shot. so the big lie is a big part of this. this sense that somehow there's been a violation around who was president is a big part of this. and all of those office holders are part of that because none of them are doing what they should be doing, with the exception of adam kinzinger and liz cheney and mitt romney at times. and a handful of others. a couple of things about what has been discussed so far that i want to point out. one is there will be a local prosecutor and a u.s. attorney in a room and they will be trying to figure out hopefully cooperating with each other and filing the charges where there is the most punishment possible. it may be the state charges have more time possible because we're talking about attempted murder. and typically the federal government does not have jurisdiction over murder cases.

typically the federal government only handles murder cases in very limited circumstances. so it is local prosecutors who have most of the experience around homicide and attempted homicide and frankly deadly assault. those are also local cases. so it may be this case may end up primarily being filed on the state level just because there's more punishment possible. the second point i want to make is about security. we've had a lot of talk about security around members of congress. as you know, i was one for a long time and before that i was a state official. and before that i was a local prosecutor. and an elected local prosecutor. so i have been subjected to literally hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of threats in my life. now, i'm not complaining about that. i signed up for it. but if anyone thinks elected officials in this country have taxpayer-funded security, they're not well informed. because they don't. and i'm always reluctant to talk about it because you don't want

to make anybody more susceptible to attacks. but there's only literally a handful of leaders in washington that are entitled to full-time security. now, facts may develop that the capitol police may decide based on information that's come forward it's worth it to give someone for a period of time a security detail. for example, for the anthrax attack or something happening at their home. and there is no question that many members of congress are spending their own money or spending their campaign money to now protect themselves. and the decision that has to be made around that is, one, can i afford it personally or two, do i want to take my campaign donors' money to protect me or my family. and three, how much do i want to be surrounded versus how much do i want to be open to meeting people at the grocery store and visiting people at the airport? these are all complicated things. but when i hear people report today, you know, members of

congress have security but spouses don't, that's just not true. members of congress don't have security. >> jake sherman, i saw your hand go up again. >> yeah. two points. the senator is exactly -- claire, i'm sorry, is exactly right. but a couple things to note. this year for the first time the house of representatives has given each member of congress a $10,000 stipend to harden the security at their home. this was in the wake of the january 6th attacks. the entire january 6th committee actually has gotten security details. that is very rare. liz cheney has a full-time security detail as afforded by the capitol police. the process, as senator mccaskill knows, is the capitol police makes a determination on a case by case basis depending on the threat. but i know i've talked to members of congress today who have been subject to threats that have ended up with federal charges against the person who has threatened them and they don't have security details and they're basically told by

capitol police we don't have the resources to do this, i'm sorry this has happened, charges have been filed but we just can't protect you, we don't have the resources. so it's a pretty grim picture for 95% of members of congress outside of the leadership. and by the way, not all members of the leadership get it. so it's a pretty -- i don't want to say grim picture but it's a pretty scary picture to be in public life right now and have to fend for yourself when it comes to the security of yourself and your family. >> it is grim is the right word for it. we have so much more. i have some of the threats that have come in recently to democratic and republican members who have in common the audacity to call january 6th what it was, an insurrection. i'm going to play that. i've also got the latest fbi dhs terror bulletin. so the climate in which this took place is one of a heightened domestic violent extremism threat. we have to sneak in a quick break. jake sherman, i know you're leaving us. but thank you so much for

starting us off on a day like today. pete and claire, stick around. when we come back we'll have more on this story and we'll tell you more about what we know about this digital footprint of the assailant. we'll be joined by a reporter who's been digging around into that on the internet. we'll also talk with one of speaker pelosi's colleagues and someone we talk to regularly about january 6th and its repercussions. congresswoman madeline dean. plus a federal judge has just ruled on whether a restraining order is needed to keep those vigilantes away from drop boxes in arizona. that's a story we've been covering all week long. we'll get a live report on that and new details on how these threats of voter intimidation came to be and what can be done about them. later in the program on this very busy news day, a new prosecutor has joined the justice department's mar-a-lago investigation and he's not just any prosecutor. a look at where that fast-moving probe is likely heading and what his addition means. when "deadline: white house" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere today. ntinues. don't agonywhere today. bipolar depression. it made me feel trapped in a fog. this is art inspired by real stories of bipolar depression. i just couldn't find my way out of it.

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no more waiting. no more running. [ screaming ] we finish this tonight. this is a trend that we've been seeing even pre january 6th. in michigan we saw men with assault weapons at the state capitol. i was on your show that day, or the day after, and you said is it okay? and i said no, it's not. there were men outside my home with assault weapons that night because of what i said on your show. and tucker carlson did a diatribe. we see this happening to school board members are wearing bulletproof vests to their meetings. it is very dangerous. the anger that we're seeing across the country. >> that was congresswoman debbie dingell reacting to the news

we've been covering all afternoon, the attack on paul pelosi, the husband of speaker nancy pelosi, in their san francisco home early in morning. i want to add to our coverage nbc correspondent ben collins. pete and claire are still with us. ben, i know you've been looking at the digital footprint. and i was on the set, actually, a different set of "morning joe" when the charlie hebdo attack happened and the first thing folks looked at there was the digital footprint. obviously, it's not determinative but it has rarely proven irrelevant. tell me what this assailant's digital footprint reveals. >> yes. so we know that the police are looking at a blog that is online that's under his name. and that blog is filled with qanon pizzagate conspiracy theories, things about the cabal, about this much larger and you will-enveloping sort of conspiracy theory this nancy pelosi and all these other people, the barack obamas and hillary clintons of the world are running some sort of satanic pedophile cabal.

>> that's q. >> that's qanon, pizzagate. it's years old. that's not new at all. what's new recently on the internet is this idea that nancy pelosi is sort of the main character in all this, that she's the one running the show. i would say she's even more so than joe biden viewed as the main villain in this story on the pro-trump internet. >> why? >> i would guess first of all because she's a woman. that's very important to them, that they can attack somebody who's not a man. but also she's been around. she's been around through the trump years and through the clinton campaign and the obama years as well. everybody knows who she is. she's a household name in this space. and to them they think things stick against her a little bit better. so they're allowed to project not just like regular talking points, not just covid lockdown stuff or actual politics, you can do that, but then they're allowed to project these insane conspiracies as well. you know, the qanon stuff as well. so it makes her a very big target. and you know, like we always say, it only takes one person

out of, you know, the thousands upon thousands of threats to actually act on this. and that's what happened last night. >> pete, i just want to put up for our viewers the current threat bulletins that have been sent out by the fbi and dhs to local law enforcement, local police departments, that says in th. "the continued proliferation of false or misleading narratives regarding current events could reinforce existing personal grievances or ideologies and in combination with other factors could inspire individuals to mobilize to violence. as the united states enters midterm elections season this year, we assess that calls for violence by domestic violent extremists directed at democratic institutions, political candidates, party offices, election events and election workers will likely increase." you take those underlying risk factors and you pour the gasoline that is donald trump seemingly embracing or standing adjacent to qanon symbols and pins and songs. what happens then?

>> nicolle, you get more violence. i mean, i think it's very clear this morning is not any broad stretch of the imagination to look at what's going on and absolutely see the path that has gone from these fringe conspiracies being incorporated into the mainstream and now people are taking action on it. look, the bulletin you read talks about agitators and extremists calling for violence. the fact of the matter is we have scores and scores and scores of people running for office in a couple of weeks who are vote deniers, who don't believe that joe biden is the lawfully elected president, who have cozied up to q, who is the group or the person who is espousing these views that, you know, today's attacker was inspired by. so part of why i appreciate the bulletin, i think it's absolutely correct, but i think it errs in saying that if you're trying to attribute blame simply to fringe figures calling for violence or extremists calling for violence, the fact of the matter is we have mainstream political figures up to and including the former president of the united states who are

calling for this sort of agitation and espousing these same theories. so when you have a setting like that where you have people who are on the fringe who are ripe for reading and buying into this misinformation and then you have their political leaders, people who are on the ballot, in days from now, who are similarly espousing these same beliefs, it's absolutely a recipe for violence. and so i agree with the threat warning. i think it is very likely to continue. and i'm sad to say it but again, i'm not -- i will not be at all surprised if violence like this continues. >> violence like this is intended, claire, for your former colleagues and because you talked about having threats made against you, i'm going to put this out there. this is a mash of things these members have shared with us. the reason we know about it is because these members put it into the public arena so that we would understand what the threats are like against them and their families. let me play this. this is congresswoman jayapal,

congressman adam kinzinger and congressman fred upton. >> yeah, hi, pramila. i just wanted to give you a little heads up. get ready for the worst year of your life. it's going to be turmoil every day. >> you go against trump y'all know y'all [ bleep ] are sitting up there lying. like a [ bleep ] dog. >> i hope you die. i hope everybody in your [ bleep ] family dies. >> so claire, we are hard on our elected representatives, but it's fair to say we don't always know everything they're dealing with and the incoming. and just apropos your comment about how 95% of them don't have security, that is the current threat environment, at least against those three members. >> yeah. there is so much damage that has been done by what trump has put out in his lies to our democracy, to our law enforcement institutions and the

fbi, to the cia, our intelligence gatherers, our military, our police, the capitol police. but the other thing that's happened here, nicolle, is we need good people to run for office. we need people who want to talk about policy challenges, policy differences, compromise, getting things done, putting our country before party. we need people like that to run for office. and these kinds of incidents are chilling for people. you know, i was blessed to have the opportunity to serve the public for so many years. i enjoyed it. and i had no regrets whatsoever about the years and years i spent doing it. but i worry about the younger generation and whether or not they're going to be willing to step up and step into these jobs if it is all about appealing to our worst. the hate, the grievance, the vitriol. everything is crooked,

everything is rigged, everybody's in a swamp. it is really depressing. and i try not to dwell on it because it's emotional for me. it's hard. >> say more, claire. >> well, it's just -- this is something people should aspire to. holding office in our country should be such an honor and such a privilege and it should be a moment of optimism and hope. elections should be about optimism and hope. and not about twisting the facts beyond recognition and accusing people of things that aren't true and going after their families. and most of all just lying becoming normal. that's what donald trump did to our democracy. he made lying normal in the republican party. and it just -- it's just awful. it's just awful. >> and ben, my sense is that extremism foments -- there's the match that incites it, and then

there are all the subtle explicit and implicit cues that we approve of it and that trump does both, right? he puts the lie out there, but then by signaling to q that he's with them, by refusing to say anything bad about them, by playing dumb when savannah guthrie asks about them-e says oh, i hear they're good on pedophilia, it's oxygen on top of oxygen to the darkest and most dangerous elements. >> yeah, i do -- i think what donald trump and the people around him are trying to do, are trying to make it so you cannot trust anything you don't see with your own eyes. >> even that, though. they don't want you to believe the insurrection was an insurrection. >> that's exactly right. so for example, i did a story this week about how in arizona outside of ballot drop boxes there are people with fatigues, but that idea, what they call the mule parties or tailgate parties, was to intimidate people away from drop boxes. it was created on truth social back in july by a bunch of

dominion vote truthers. it's the same people as the past doing new stuff. and the point to them is to intimidate people to not vote, to not be a part of the process, to not join even like your local school board or something like that. that's what we saw the proud boys at school boards recently. they want to make it so democracy means, you know, can we intimidate people into sharing our vote? that's what democracy means to that group of people. and when it happens that way of course you wouldn't want to run for office if you disagreed with the trump party line. even if you were a republican. that's what we're seeing with people like liz cheney. if you disagree, you are in physical danger. that's the whole point of this. >> it's unbelievable. ben collins, thank you for your reporting today and the other story, we're going to get to it. pete strzok and claire mccaskill, thank you so much for being my pillars today on this really, really dark and sad day. i'm grateful to both of you. up next for us, what a judge has said just this hour on the

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boxes in recent days there. the judge's decision effectively gives permission, at least for now, for the harassment and filming that has been reported that we've shown you all week long of voters in arizona who are legally submitting their early ballots to drop boxes. many are accused of illegally intimidating them, with six complaints now referred to the u.s. department of justice. it comes as nbc news is reporting today from our friends ben collins and vaughn hillyard about how all this unraveled online months ago from memes on truth social to the ex-president reposting the addresses of drop box locations and bogus claims about what these ballot watchers allegedly found. let's bring in nbc news correspondent vaughn hillyard live for us in phoenix. vaughn? >> reporter: yeah, nicolle, ben and i were trying to get to the roots of this. this isn't a matter of just a few individuals showing up to these drop boxes to be watchers or vigilantes, whatever you like to call them. but this is a situation that has roots. not only within the gop but

organizations. a network of organizations around the country. and while you and i, nicolle, have had conversations over the last year and a half, to a certain extent of an eye roll about the repeated so-called audits, the private canvasses, essentially trying to prove here in arizona that joe biden didn't actually win, essentially i think it's more and as i reflect myself here, those were the seeds that were planted by these organizations. it was not so much about 2020 election but it was the roots that took hold here ahead of the 2022 election. it was the likes of kari lake openly talking back in may about taking her own sleeping bag out and urging folks to come and sleep by these drop boxes. it was the likes of mark finchem, the secretary of state candidate here, praising true the vote. this is that organization that inspired the so-called geolocation data that led to dinesh disouza creating that movie "2,000 mules." the movie that his been consistently debunked. and ultimately the arizona

attorney general mark been vitch earlier this month saying he was referring the organization to the fbi for investigation because they failed to ever produce fraud that amounted to a credible investigation that he could mount here. and that is where you see these efforts playing out by these folks. and what you and ben and the senator were talking about in that last hit so much plays into this moment here because what you have seen here is individuals at these drop boxes take videos of otherwise normal citizens voting and then individuals film them, put them out on their truth social media accounts alleging some form of wrongdoing, and then that ultimately platform by this woman who runs a popular truth social account. her name is melody jennings. she lives in tulsa, oklahoma. she's a minister there. she has a large following on social media. she then goes and posts that so-called evidence here and then seven of her posts so far have been reposted by who? the 45th president of the united states.

donald trump. who even posted that specific drop box address, urging folks to go there and essentially watch over here. i was out there for a good long while just the other night attempting to talk to some of these folks. one woman was telling us that she was a part of the so-called audit and she was a part of the canvass. another man, he was there, he had a trail cam connected to the back of his car covering up his license plate, and he told me that there was squirrelly stuff that had been taking place for years here. yes, the judge, the federal judge ruled today that essentially there was not enough evidence for him to determine illegal voter intimidation. but so far now it sits -- the arizona secretary of state's office has referred six specific incidents to the fbi for their investigation now. nicolle? >> if the judge doesn't view the filming and the reposting on social media as sufficient evidence of a consequence, and an attempted intimidation, did the judge indicate what would rise to that level?

>> reporter: i'll just read you the two sentences here as part of the conclusion. he writes, "while the irreparable harm factor tips in favor of plaintiffs, the balance of the equities and public interest do not. a preliminary injunction cannot issue on these facts." he does open for further evidence to be presented in which that scale could be shifted. i was talking to a prominent election lawyer who often represents republicans in election cases over the last several years. i was having the conversation with him. and he said the issue is even if this judge were to determine that a couple particular individuals could not guard or watch over these drop boxes the liability doesn't necessarily extend to the likes of that melody jennings, that prominent truth social figure or the likes of even a prominent republicans who have urged individuals to be vigilantes and come out here because that is where the next step comes into when we're talking about a first amendment rights of individuals to urge folks to come out. as long as they are not urging them to violate the law or directly hiring them to engage

in such acts, that is where the issue is and why these prominent republican politicians and candidates and social media influencers on the right, they are likely protected here. and as you just saw from the federal judge, suggesting that even those individuals, the masked individuals, the armed individuals at this hour here, 11 days before the election, they also are protected by what this individual says is their first and second amendment rights. nicolle? >> vaughn hillyard, thank you so much for your reporting from there. it's always really important. and especially tonight. a quick break for us and then we'll have more on our top story. jon meachem will be with us with what he can tell us about his close friends nancy and paul pelosi. that's next. don't go anywhere.

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presidential historian is with us. he has known the pelosi family for years much he was supposed to be here because he is author of a brand new book. we were supposed to have an expanded and extended conversation about it. it's called and there was light. abraham lincoln and the american struggle. we're going to have to do that next time he's with us. events intervened. tell us your thoughts. i know you know the pelosis personally. tell us about this moment.

we're on air covering an act of violence carried out against the speaker's husband. >> it's a day of sadness and resolve. there is a human empathetic reaction and then a determination to get better and to remain in at rena. i think both paul and nancy pelosi embodied love of country. they embodied public service. somebody -- we have a point of commonality, you and i with, the pelosis as well which was the nancy pelosi and paul were both close to george h.w. and barbara bush. i sometimes pointed out that if barbara pierce was a roman catholic in baltimore and nancy was born in new york, they would have been the same person. because there is that kind of bluntness. >> if there is a filter, i don't want to know what doesn't get out for both of them. and she's just arguably the most important speaker of the house

in american history. and paul is this remarkablebly strong and congenial figure. my wife, when she first met paul, she said later she always wondered what kind of man it would be who do deal with a woman being married to a woman that powerful. and she said, and i get it now. pelosi -- paul is an italian john wayne, if you will. you know? he's just a great, sort of man's man if you will. i know we're not allowed to say that now. but that's what he is. and he's a tough, tough guy. they have given so much to the life of the country. >> perhaps in or out of surgery after being brutally attacked by

someone yelling, "where's nancy" and tied him up and saying we're going to wait for nancy. >> there is no place for political violence in american life. our history is punctuated by tragedy and bloodshed. and this is an abhorrent thing. paul is 82 years old, right? 81, 82. and he's attacked in this way? i mean, my god. just on a human level. this isn't partisan. this isn't fuel for the machinery of perpetual conflict in the world in which we live. this is a good man who was at home, who's married to a public servant who is third in line to the presidency of the united states, the female speaker of the house of representatives. and he's going about his life and he's tacked.

i don't care what your politics are. that cannot stand. i know the family is, you know, moving into san francisco and it's a big wonderful frank family. with each other. and i think they'll be an immense amount of love and support. >> i'm going pull back the curtain and apologized for not having time to get to the book. it's been rescheduled once before this week because of breaking news. the book is called "tlaen was light." we'll have john meachum back to talk about it on monday. we're going to turn back at the top of the hour to what john is talking about, the resolve the pelosis and much more on what we know this hour on the attack on paul pelosi. madeline dean will be a guest. quick break. don't go anywhere. we'll be right back. k break. don't go anywhere. we'll be right back.

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we have got to get to the proceedings. >> there has to be some way we can maintain the sense that people have that there is some security or some confidence that government can function and that we can elect a president of the united states. >> i have something to say, mr. secretary. i'm going to call the mayor of washington, d.c., right now and see what other outreach he has.

>> hi again, everyone. 5:00 in new york. some of that has just come to light. they are remarkable displays of character, steeliness, a resolve from the speaker of the house, nancy pelosi on january 6. while the insurrection was very much underway. she is a leader who was focused on that day on security of the capitol and at the same time never lose sight of the importance of continuing to be america and maintaining the unteg rit of our democracy and our country's peaceful transition of power until january 6, the hallmark of our democracy. speaker pelosi's relentless defense of our country and our democracy in her critiques of donald trump made her a target for some of the ex-president's supporters. but she has never let personal fear get to her. we never even been aware of it. here's what she told my colleague joy reid two weeks after the capitol attack. >> i don't know if you've been

able to see the video in which you can hear people screaming your name. where's nancy? looking for you. hunting you. >> yeah. >> i don't even know how i would react to that. how do you react to that? how personal it was toward you? >> well, i was actually more thinking about my staff and my colleagues who don't have the protection that i have. >> and that comment is something she makes while the attack is underway. she's worries about the other members hiding in offices and afraid. so those comments from speaker pelosi are even more powerful and upsetting after the news we've been covering all afternoon that speaker pelosi's husband was violently attacked in his own home earlier this morning. the suspect broke into the pelosi's san francisco home and assaulted paul pelosi with a hammer. the 42-year-old suspect is charged with attempted homicide, assault with a deadly weapon, elder abuse, burglary and

several other additional felonies. u.s. capitol police says that the speaker was in washington, d.c. at the time of the break in at her san francisco home. she is now flying back to san francisco. sources tell nbc news the suspect was searching for the speaker shouting, where's nancy? very same rhetoric. we heard chanted by some of the insurrectionists on january 6. a family member traveling with her says the suspect attacked paul in an attempt to tie him up. "until nancy got home." he said. however, the moment san francisco police have said the motivation is still under investigation. this on going investigation of the brutal attack on the speaker of the house of representatives comes on the backdrop of a nation plagued by a threat that ma tast sized over the last few years. that's where we gun our coverage this hour. madeline dean joins us. she was at the u.s. capitol on january 6 and has shared her

experiences and actions with us. also joining us is mary mccord, former acting assistant for national security who also shared with us her efforts to fortify our democracy. and luke broadbetter is here. your reporting brow the reality of the threat environment that not just speaker pe lose ji living under and the new normal. take us into your understanding of the attack on paul pelosi? >> right. we're still learning new details. but the, you know, a lot of -- as you mentioned at the top of the segment, the phrase that the attacker said where's nancy brought back eery memories on january 6 when you heard the same calls as the mob was rampaging through the halls of the capitol, bring out nancy. where is nancy? and we have seen video after

video of men marching towards capitol and storming into the hallway saying the same things. we're going to drag her by her hair. one guy arrested for saying he wanted to pull a bullet in her head. this is unmatched by anybody in american politics today. the amount of threats she gets. we know that the rise in threats is disturbing. i'm sure congresswoman dean can talk about the things she's endured. but we've seen a tenfold increase since donald trump came on the american scene. and there's been an increase in threats against both republicans and democrats. i don't want to say it's only republicans making the threats. but the violent rhetoric has risen to such a level. and you're seeing conspiracy theories and the anger go from calls online to the real world. and it's sadly looks like that might be what happened here as we're learning more about this

attacker and the type of things he was posting allegedly on social media. >> words matter. the demonization of politicians has real world consequences. here are some of the words luke is talking about being directed towards nancy pelosi on january 6th by the rioters. [ nancy! nancy! [ chanting ] >> bring her out here! we're going in if you don't bring her out. >> nancy!

>> congresswoman, the assailant was heard saying, "where's nancy? where's nancy?" and told police when they arrived on the scene, we're waiting for nancy as he was intending to or beginning to tie up her husband paul pelosi. it is difficult to say these things. it's difficult to hear them. it's difficult to talk about them. but the threat environment is what you all live with every day as you go about your work. and i'm brought right back to i think the first time i ever interviewed you on tv right after january 6. there was such an awareness of the risk of violence that a lot of you and your colleagues had your staff stau home that day. i mean, just tell me what this violent attack on paul pelosi conjured up for you? >> i appreciate that your interview with the thoughtful john meachum. two things i want to point out. number one, to his point, who

stands next to a woman as strong and steady and smart as nancy pelosi? it's paul pelosi. what an extraordinary human being he is. i had the chance to meet him first in 2018 when i was running. his grace, his strength, his generosity, there is no bounds. so the story is horrifying to me. the second point i want to make, what you just revealed there with speaker pelosi, her concern was not for herself. it was first for her staff, for all of us. literally, nicole, when she called me just days after the insurrection, i was literally out on the street corner getting a covid test following being held in a safe room and she said madeline, would you consider serving as an impeachment manager? i immediately said yes, speaker, of course. it would be my sad honor. i will do that. the you know what she said? she said, madeline, don't you want to check with your family

first? i said, no, i don't need to. i know what they would say. that's who she is. but if you'll allow me one more second. this is unacceptable. political violence, any curried violence by would-be lead serz completely unacceptable. we have gone too far. lies and disinformation come from the highest levels. the highest levels need to say stop. you must not be misled. we must speak only the truth to you and we must always say violence is not an option. >> mary, i want to show you -- i spoke to a source close to the select committee, the january 6 select committee today. deradicalization and extremism is next to impossible outside of the extremist movement itself. and it was only example the committee was able to present to the country. that was the testimony of

stephen airs. stephen airs is, you know, sort of hindsight of history. one of the most important witnesses that the committee presented to the country in the spirit of counter-terrorism. let me play his articulation of how he came to participate in the january 6 insurrection. >> for me personally, you know, i was, you know, pretty hard core into the social media, facebook, twitter, instagram. i followed president trump. you know, all of the web sites, you know. basically put out, you know, come to stop the steal rally. i felt like i needed to be down here. i felt like i had horse blinders on. i was locked in the whole time. biggest thing for me is take the blinders off. make sure you take a step back and see what is going on before

it's too late. >> mary mccord, are we still able to take the blinders off. . make sure you step back and see what's going on before it's too late. is it too late? >> well, i think what he's referring to there is when you get into your own ideological silo on social media and cable news and wherever you are, you know, frequenting, whatever internet platforms. right now the al go rhythms immediate you more and more and more. unless people on their own decide to break it, it just gets worse. we've seen the same sort of problem even when isis declared

a coup in 2014 and people started consuming extremist content at that time, similarly would get into that effect of more and more of that conduct. that leads to an on line radicalization. every case we brought when i was the department of justice over at national security, every single terrorism case we brought involved an element of online radicalization. we're experiencing that with people that believe in conspiracy theories and acceleration towards civil war and all of these sort of very, very extreme anti-government, you know, anti-immigrant, anti-other types of rhetoric and we need people like stephen airs and other formers. we called them when i was -- formers, people that had been swept up by extremism before. people that had been radicalized

and at some point pulled away and they're able to explain to people what it was like and actually explain to people how they were used, really used by people like the former president and others and currently being used by so many people who are continuing to propagate false information about the election and false information about so many other things. >> and the loop we should be clear. the loop is not an all sides, both sides situation. let me read the current terror threat from dhs. this is the latest one. the continued proliferation of false or misleading narratives regarding current events could reinforce existing personal grievances or ideologies and in combination with other factors could inspire individuals to mobilize to violence. as united states enters midterm election season this year, we assess that calls for violence by domestic violence extremists

directed at democratic institutions, candidates and election workers will likely increase. luke, i played a reel of threats made to members of congress. and they were made to democrats and republicans. but they were from that same core set of grievances. they were about the lies that the 2020 election was stolen. that lie is told by donald trump and all of his accolades. and they're now people that believe in that lie. who have intersectionality. you talk about the digital footprint emerging from the attacker overnight at the pelosi house. those are the conspiracies that he repeated and appeared to be enthusiastic about in terms of his online profile. but there are now, pete, it struck me, we're not looking for threats on the fringes of the right-wing of the republican party. this is the mainstream of the gop today. this is who is running to be secretaries of state under the banner of gop.

what do we do about that? >> right. >> they spread the vaccines or do some of the things that has become a hallmark donald trump's grip on the republican party. they get worst of the threats. so sometimes the most vicious threats, they cover democrats certainly. but sometimes there are people like liz cheney and adam kin singer and the few republicans left that do stand up to the rest of the party. we talk about the threats against susan collins. people punching in her door, her window. so, yeah. the threats from the right consume both the democratic party or attack the democratic party but also those few

republicans left who will not go along with them. we're seeing them who wholly embraced things they never false and the evidence shows they're false. what do you do about that? as a reporter you can you report out that it's false. the can you read the facts. but at some point, it's up to the voters to either reject this and say they want truthful candidates or i don't know what it means for the country to be honest. >> mary, this -- i don't know what it means is something that i hear on and off tv all day to day. what do we do other than accept this new era of political violence? >> the internet companies, they talk about facebook, instagram and twitter as the specific places where he was mainlined,

donald trump's lies and his testimony. those companies, facebook, twitter and instagram, they know how to monitor content. they know how to find child pornography. there are algorithms to keep specific content off the internet. why have they not been applied to political lies or not in a meaningful way? >> that's the $60,000 question, right? back when i was in government, i had a lot of conversations when we were seeing just horrible things, including beheadings that would, you know, appear in videos on twitter. i think that when these companies first launched, they were completely inadequately prepared for how the platforms might be misused. i don't think most of them intended to have them misused that way.

they were caught flatfooted. they can't be flatfooted anymore. years have gone by. there is plenty of time for them to find better ways. to reduce this type of violent content. they will respond sometimes if it's recorded. but their own self, you know, engaged content moderation is still lacking. sml say they're very engaged in various things using ai to try to take down content. we're just not really seeing it. we're seeing some things come down and others not. this is originally passed to try to encourage the development of the internet. and providing immunity for platforms that are not themselves content producers. but instead are just conveying the content produced by others. but what i don't think was really contemplated in that time is what is the role of an algorithm, right, that feeds

users more and more of the same content and actually content that gets deeper and darker. s so there's a lot of potential for legislation. there is litigation involving this. in fact, the supreme court case this fall is going to be talking about the algorithms and whether that is protected under 230-c. the public has to demand it. >> right. >> these are companies that have a business model. and right now, you know, apparently the public is insufficiently demanding that to cause them to change the practices. >> if we did everything that luke said f reporters called out every single lie and kept them off the airwaves and the newspapers and if internet companies did everything mary mccord is describing, developed an algorithm to keep off social media anything untrue and dangerous and associated with

domestic violence extremism threat but you still have donald trump and kevin mccarthy and the allies and ted cruz furthering the lies, you'd really only travel up an inch of a mile high pile of danger. what does it take to break the grip of the lies and donald trump and the toxic red rick in a republican party? -- rhetoric in the republican party? >> how about some sense of honesty, integrity, credibility? you're right. we see this chain of events. lie upon lie upon lie. it builds grievance in folks. and then as liz cheney pointed out, it preys on the patriotism of the folks who have been so grotesquely deceived leading to political violence. i call upon, of course, the social media companies to be responsible, to use algorithms to protect us from these lies. but to your point is exactly right. if we don't have political leaders like he luz beth mccarthy and other members of

congress saying, wait a second, this is way too far. you know the people i serve with, for example, on the judiciary committee. republican members of the judiciary committee. lie after lie after lie in order to stoke briefance. they don't want to tamp it down. it's upon us. it is really on us to say this is unacceptable in a would-be political leader. mr. mccarthy has no business running any caucus and certainly not a majority. he has not tamped down the lies. he has not done enough. he helped support them. he supported those in the conference that keep using the lies. he's supporting people who are running and election deniers. this comes from the very top. call to action comes to the very top. we're coming up on a very important election. i'm in pittsburgh supporting josh schapiro, members of congress, to say this election really matters.

do not cast a vote for someone who would deceive you. they're trying to hold on to power. they're trying to make money. don't vote for somebody that will lead you to political violence. they're preying on your patriotism in the most cynical of ways. >> congresswoman madeline dean, a very important conversation. thank you both for having it with me. mary mccord sticks around longer. when we come back, there is breaking news on the justice department's investigation into how those classified documents ended up at mara lag yoe. how they might put the twice disgraced ex-president in a real legal peril and very quickly. that story is next. later, the rise of political violence is straight out of the authoritarian playbook. the growing threats facing american democracy routed in the lies spread by donald trump. who better to talk to about this than his one time personal attorney michael cohen will be our guest later in the hour.

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♪ ♪ no more waiting. no more running. [ screaming ] we finish this tonight. there is brand new reporting to day from the "washington post" on the mar-a-lago investigation. "the washington post" talked with national security experts who say prosecutors appear to have he massed evident that could lead to charges against the disgraced ex-president and soon. according to reporting, senior federal prosecutor david raskin joined doj's team after initially asking him to join the criminal investigations into january 6. he is considered one of the best terrorism prosecutors in the

country. and his addition suggests the seriousness with which doj officials are handling this case. as questions swirls as to whether merrick garland will do the unprecedented and bring charges against the former president. joining our coverage now, former acting solicitor general now law professor at georgetown university. mary mccord is still with us. mary, you're quoted in the article. i'll read that in a second. first, neil, your reaction to the "washington post" reporting? >> well, this lawyer david raskin is like the lebron james of national security trials. he had others from 9/11. he was going to do the mohammed trial, the extent there was going to be one but then it got taken to guantanamo. the it's a very good tell as to where the justice department is headed. it's like when a client brings me in at the trial level, they're basically signalling, hey, we're prepared to go to the supreme court.

this is a signal that, hey, we're prepared to actually go to trial. you know, i can't think of many reasons you would bring in someone like david raskin if the investigation is winding down or not going to trial. i don't think this is surprising that this is going to go to an indictment. the evidence against trump is overwhelming. this is not a thing. trump can say he declassified the documents the way herschel walker can say he served as a police officer which is a little imagination and a lot of chutzpah. >> i want to read your quote. there is no other case in history like this. during the obama administration this is a former president of the united states. this is someone who is the commander in chief. somebody that spent four years being briefed every single day on national security issues. it's not like any other case. the steps prosecutors take are

not going to look the same as any other case. talk about -- and you before that i into our coverage. that's why we love having you. but there is just nothing natural about talking about a former commander in chief as a threat. talk about what mr. raskin brings to this case. >> i think neil described it well. very, very well respected national security prosecutor. i don't personally know him. our various times, he left government for a period of time and that's when i -- assume my rules roles in the national security division of main justice. and i've been in the d.c. office before that. he knows the importance of classified information. he knows how to build a case. he knows his way around the courtroom. he's been responsible for the most significant prosecutions. even though a terrorism prosecution is quite different than a mishandling of classified information, type of

prosecution, still there are, you know, building a case, the key building blocks for prosecutors translate from subject matter to subject matter. as i indicated in that quote you read, there is still no -- you know, the reason i said that to the reporter when they reached out to me is, you know, trying to get a playbook of what do prosecutors do when they build a case? there is a certain amount of that that does, you know, is kind of similar from case to case particularly undocumented and mishandling classified information and mishandling cases. but there is really nothing like this. and so there is -- it's not going to follow the exact same playbook. and there are so many additional considerations that the justice department has to think about as it's, you know, not only building the case, the people they're interviewing, the things that they're subpoenaing, the use of other investigative techniques including search warrants, et cetera. their decisions to appeal to higher judges when, you know, they -- when privileges are asserted and the grand jury, all

these things are going to be different when we're talking about the president. >> there is a little slice of reporting and analysis in this new post story. i wand to read you to, neil. it gets to a piece of what mary is talking about. you're going to be putting together a prosecutors with pieces of the experience. obviously never the whole picture. the next president has never done these things. let me read this to you. this is also the new post story. just two weeks ago raskin won a former fbi analysts took more than 300 classified files or documents to her home including highly sensitive material about al qaeda and an associate of osama bin laden. in court papers, federal prosecutors say they recovered a similar number of documents but the variety of plasfied markings from mar-a-lago all apparently taken from the white house. what does that say to you, neil? >> well, i think it underscores

really the way the department is thinking about this which is not like let's go after and get the former president of the united states or anything like that. they're seeing this first and foremost as a national security threat. whatever trump's defends are to this, executive privilege or declassified if his mind or whatever, the bottom line is all these really sensitive documents were taken out of the white house and brought to a social club in florida, a social club in florida that is undoubtedly the target of every sophisticated intelligence service around the globe. and so, you know, just put aside the crime for a second and just ask yourself, you know, of course the government has to investigate this and uncover all the national security implications. spies in the field. they might be compromised. all sorts of things like that. so that's the first part. and the second is when you bring in raskin in conjunction, nicole, with the reporting you

just showed me, it is saying to me what i've said to you before. i don't think garland wants to indict -- be the first attorney general to indict a former president of the united states. but i think the evidence is mounting in a way that he just has to. there isn't a way for him to look and say i can't do this. because, you know, if you prosecute someone like that employee in kansas city for taking those documents, how do you now prosecute trump for taking far more serious documents, far more threat to our national security? and still to this day we're ten weeks into this search on mar-a-lago. no explanation at all of why he took the documents. he has deck nickal defenses like privilege or whatever. but still no reason whatsoever what in the world is he doing taking these things? if it were you or me or anyone else, we would be in jail. >> and we would be charged with crimes of obstruction of justice and having our lawyers lie.

there is also a far more public facing obstruction case against donald trump. i want to read to both of you an update i was just handed on paul pelosi's condition. this is spokesperson for speaker pelosi. earlier this morning paul pelosi was attacked at home by an assailant that acted with force and threatened his life while demanding to seat speaker. he was admitted to the general hospital where he underwent successful surgery to repair a skull fracture and serious injuries to his right arm and hands. his doctors expect a full recovery. the speaker and her family are thankful for the outpouring of support and prayers from friends and constituents and people around the country. the pelosi family is immensely grateful to mr. pelosi's entire medical team and the law enforcement officer who's responded to the assault. the family aappreciates respect for their privacy during this time. mary, a couple new pieces of information. the nature of paul pelosi's

injuries had been talked about but not confirmed by the family. this is coming from the pelosi family. and it does -- it appears it is clear now that the surgery was to, quote, repair a skull fracture and serious injuries to his right arm and hand. that this was a very dangerous attack on the life of paul pelosi. >> yeah. i think, you know, we're already seeing the local -- obviously the arrest of the assailant and local charges. but one thing i think is important for folks to keep in mind, is the fbi involved and attacks even on family members of members of congress violate federal law. when it's done with the intent to impede or intimidate the work of the member of congress. or in retaliation for something a member of congress has done. and even though there is much, much more work to be done in this investigation, we do have the indications in the earlier segment that we were discussing of this particular assailant

asking where is nancy? where is nancy, echoing the same thing that january 6th attackers were doing and he potentially wanted to tie up mr. pelosi until the speaker returned home. so there is also the potential for, you know, charges related, federal charges related to an attempted attack on the speaker. if ultimately the evidence shows that's really what the attacker was intending to do once she arrived there or maybe he didn't even realize she wasn't there when he first got there. so this is very, very serious. the injuries certainly could have been life threatening. and thankfully, you know, he survived and it sound like the surgery went well. but i think, you know, this is not just a local case. this is a very serious likely federal case. >> mary mccord, thank you so much for being with us and helping us with our coverage of this extraordinary day. neil sticks around with us for the rest of the hour. when we come back, the threats

against democracy, the rise in what we're talking about. political violence. it's part of a plan. it's part of a playbook. the authoritarian playbook. our next guest has been sounding at larm that a second trump presidency would be a threat to american democracy. michael cohen will join our conversation after a quick break. don't go anywhere. sation after k break. don't gony awhere. (vo) at viking, we are proud to have been named the world's number one for both rivers and oceans by travel and leisure, as well as condé nast traveler. but it is now time for us to work even harder, searching for meaningful experiences and new adventures for you to embark upon. they say when you reach the top, there's only one way to go. we say, that way is onwards. viking. exploring the world in comfort. ♪ what will you do? will you make something better? create something new? our dell technologies advisors can provide you with the tools and expertise you need

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a week in the life of an american in the year 2022, a

violent i sahratian of the house speaker's home, armed vigilante he is threatening people trying to vote. threats to poll workers ahead of the elections. the instances of mill violence and anti-democratic conduct seemingly more and more frequent, more and more common. straight out of an authoritarian playbook. the part of a plan that is written down. the political base willing to get violent, very violent. donald trump himself poses a threat to our democracy. it is possible, therefore, that the barbarism we saw this week is as he predicted a harbinger of things to come. joining us now personal attorney michael cohen. author of the book revenge, how

donald trump weaponized the u.s. department of justice against his critics. mike also describes the first political prisoner with more to come if trump should be president again. neil is still here. i want to talk to you at the end this week. it started at the beginning of the week when trump went on trial. but it turned really darker to something you warned about. and that is the use of violence as a tool toward the threats. >> one thing that i've been sounding the alarm on, especially now in the new book, is that donald trump, like a mobster, speaks in code. and i think everybody has already seen that. this is how he speaks. what happened today is the direct result of the way that donald trump speaks. the way this he insights these people to do things. because the words that this individual uttered is identical to words that were being uttered when the insurrectionists were taking over the capitol. and again, these are -- these

are donald trump's people. this isn't the way that america fwoez. we're in serious trouble. >> isn't it inevitable what has to happen to break the cycle. ? >> the only way is, you know, i was watching as neil was speaking before. and i acknowledge what neil said, that merrick garland does not want to be the first attorney general to indict a president. well, too bad, neil. right? as far -- too bad, merrick garland. do your job. it's that simple. and if you don't want to do your job, if you're afraid to do your job, step down. appoint me. i'll indict this man tomorrow. he is guilty of a multitude of crimes. we all know the crimes that he

is committed. pt that he seems to be getting away with. you're talking about the documents from mar-a-lago. obstruction of justice. witness tampering, money laundering, the list goes on and on and on. and the fact that they do not want to indict him, you know what they're doing? they're enabling him. he'll continue to push this rhetoric and more people who unfortunately get hurt. and thank god paul pelosi wasn't killed. but you didn't see on truth social donald trump saying this has to stop, you know, thoughts and prayers to the pelosi family. you don't see that. he doesn't have empathy for anyone. the fact that he is, he'll still refuting. >> what does donald trump think about violence in general? i know he celebrated it at the rallies. i know he talked about liking people who crack heads together. >> yeah. he thinks it's cool because it's not something that he's ever been involved with. so he looks up to it. he looks up to fighters, to

people who like to fight. and he admires them. all the reporting is that he was in a. >> i wasn't even there, nicole. and i made the statement on television that day that i gather tee you he was ee rated. he was so elated to be watching television and it's all about him. it's name on the flags. make america great again hats. the trump 2020, you know, flags flying. these are his people. these are his warriors. this is his mult group taking over the capitol. to are who? for the king. for the leader. for the monarch. that's what he wants to be. he wants to be an autocrat. i'm watching as the republicans are gaining strength in the midterm elections, if that's -- if what is happening today is not scaring everyone to ensure

that they get to the polls and vote blue and create a blue wave, i don't know what is going to happen to this country. >> neil, want to give you a chance to respond to michael's reaction to your analysis of merrick garland. i know it's your informed analysis of merrick garland. respond to michael's concerns about all the hand wringing. >> first, i just want to address michael's point about trump and violence. i think it's so important. forget about the law for a second. i mean, the attack today on paul pelosi is exactly the kind of violent extremism that i would expect every politician, every figure in particular republicans to be condemning strongly and swiftly. i would have expected better from other republicans if wur not seeing it. with respect to garland, i don't

think we're disagreeing. i say that garland is a person who i think isn't, you know, blood thirsty and trying to be the first attorney general to indict a former president. this is a prosecution that has to happen. i think the mar-a-lago one is going to show which the evidence is overwhelming and the signals sent to the national security establishment by not doing it is devastating. the justice department is locking up ordinary americans for munor crimes. how do you do that and put people in jail for that? so i agree with michael. it's got to be done.

>> all right. i need both of you to stick around. so much more. we need to sneak in a quick break. we'll all be right back. n a qui break. we'll all be right back. our ancestors had power, our ancestors had hope and our ancestors had ambition. born in 1847, formally enslaved, started buying land, was in the house of representatives. we didn't know our family was part of black reconstruction. exactly. okay, seriously. finding out this family history, these things become anchors for your soul.

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we're back with michael and neal. michael, there is a story in the news i wanted to ask you about. elon musk owns twitter. trump used twitter to his advantage to communicate but also to radicalize a lot of his follows. do you think he comes back? >> no.

i'm sure he's never coming back to it. if he went back to twitter, there is two issues. that means that truth social failed. it would be another bankrupted trump company that he owned at one point in time that just couldn't make it. so that would have an acknowledge that true socialism works and it was never going to work and because of his ego, he could never do that. on top of it, when he was on twitter, he had 80 million foe lowers. i suspect if he comes back, he won't have that same 80 million. he doesn't have the platform. he's not the president of the united states. so let's assume he gets 20 million, still a lot of people, don't get me wrong. but it is only one fifth of kim kardashians, and he can't understand how she could have more followers than him. i think more of the people that may end up following with haters. and so any time he puts something out he's going to get a backlash as opposed to truth

social, the 11 people that are on there, just constantly praise him. that's what he says, the constant reassurance that he's the greatest. >> you know, i think that's probably consoling, neal. i spoke to people who are worried that the country in some ways is a greater tinderbox now. that post january 6th with the republican party calling it a tourist visit that the country is more in the grips of trump's lies and that if he were replatformed he would be a greater threat. what do you think about new management on twitter? >> just on a personal level, i look at twitter, i use twitter and i'm not relishing the idea of having to look at donald trump tweets again. but, you know, to me there is one genuine threat right now to the security of elections in america, and it is this trump maga stuff. and i'm very worried about, you

know, speech. and it is his right to talk and sell on. but just because there is a right to free speech doesn't insulate you from criticism about the content of your speech. and the content of trump's speech is horrendous and sometimes actively called for violence. we're suffering the consequences right now of that kind of rhetoric. and so i am very, very concerned about it. >> you talked about the midterm elections calling for a big blue wave. i don't do a lot of polls here. i think it is really hard to poll in a climate when women are deleting ovulation trackers. i don't know what i don't know. but what do you make of the stakes of the midterms? >> says who? listen, it's everything. it is one of the things again i outlined in the book is exactly what's going to happen to this country if, in fact, trump or one of his accolades donald trump 2.0 take back power.

the country that we know, the rights that we have grown up will be expunged. why? because look at what donald did. he set himself up with federal judges and the supreme court in a way that only -- it only satisfies that way the christian e vav gangel cal base without taking into consideration how hard people had worked over a 50-year period in order to obtain those rights. and in one fell swoop they're gone. and then wait to see what happens with the next case and then the next case until ultimately they will try to pass everything along to the state. what do we have? we have republican governors, so they will make it more difficult, whether it's going to be about women's choice, whether it's going to be about gerrymandering. whatever it is going to be, it won't be to the benefit of this country.

>> all right. michael cohen, it was grim, but it was probably necessary and an important truth. thank you for being here today. neal katyal, thank you so much for spending time with us. a quick break for us. we will be right back. us we will be right back. ♪ what will you change? ♪ will you make something better? ♪ will you create something entirely new? ♪ our dell technologies advisors provide you with the tools and expertise you need to do incredible things. because we believe there's an innovator in all of us. (driver 1) it's all you. (driver 2) no, i insist. (driver 1) it's your turn. (burke) get farmers and you could save money with the safe driver discount just by having a clean driving record for three years. get a whole lot of something with farmers policy perks. (driver 3) come on! ♪ we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪ when dehydration gets real... hey!

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what a time to be alive. thank you so much for letting us into your homes for some of it for another week of shows. we are so grateful. "the beat" starts right now. hi, katie. >> thanks, nicole. wishing you and your family a great weekend. >> welcome to "the beat."