on the ground note that is a risk if you go up against him. let's take these two things, two steps. first of all, anyone who lived through the era of vhs knows how ridiculous trump's argument is. his argument is, i was allowed to have it for this one reason, so i am allowed to have it for any reason. the fact that you own a tape and pcr, is not me new can record a movie of the television and then use it for whatever purposes. it's very similar we start talking about mar-a-lago documents. then he said talking about individuals having to testify before the country. for you to plead the fifth, there has to be some risk for prosecution, so even setting aside whether or not it makes sense complete the fifth, ultimately, if the prosecutors come forward and say, hey, we're not interested, we won't charge you have anything, then you are going to have to testify. this is an instance where we are seeing throughout the trump litigation, you can run, but ultimately, you can't hide. >> jill wine-banks, david henderson, greatly appreciate it, thank you so much for your time and insights as always.

coming up on the second hour of ayman, the fight of a lifetime. election denialism is threatening to take over arizona. i'll speak with katie hobbs, the democratic nominee for governor and secretary of state about her efforts to stop the conspiracies once and for all. then outrage in georgia. one woman sounds off after her struggle to cast a ballot. hear how she fought back, and the latest on the brutal assault of speaker nancy pelosi's has been, what democrats are saying, and what republicans are not. i am ayman mohyeldin, let's get started. >> ♪ ♪ ♪ >> call it trump's election denier trifecta on the arizona bout. the republican contenders for secretary of state, attorney general and governor of arizona have all loudly echoed trump's election lies, and they continue to spread

disinformation about voting just ten days before the midterms. that this information in part as led to a series of voter intimidation issues across the state. secretary of state and gubernatorial candidate katie hobbs, who will join me in a moment, has referred a total of ten potential voting intimidation complains to law enforcement. some of these instances, voters are being photographed, filmed and fault as they drop off their early ballots at drop boxes. behavior that is actually being encouraged by some republicans in the state. arizona state senator kelly townsend told presidents back in may, i have been so pleased to hear all of you vigilantes out there that want to come out at these drop boxes, so do it. do it. more recently, the republican nominee for secretary of state, mark finchem, has defended the vigilantism. here is president obama tonight seeming to reference these instances. >> if they're telling supporters that you had to

stand outside polling places aren't with guns and dressed in tactical gear, that's the kind of thing that ends up getting people hurt. >> at least one republican, not from arizona is fighting back, as cheney's political action committee is urging voters to reject republican kari lake and mark finchem due to the election denialism. >> you have a candidate for governor, kari lake. you have a candidate for secretary of state, mark finchem. both of whom had said that they will only honor the results of an election if they agree with it. if you care about the survival of our republic, we cannot give people to power, we will not honor elections. >> and joining me now is katie hobbs, the current arizona secretary of state and the democratic candidate for governor. secretary hobbs, thank you so much for making time for us. i'd like to start with what we saw this last week. you had a federal judge in phoenix reject an attempt to stop these drop box watchers.

aside from referring these cases to law enforcement, how else is your office assuring voters that they can safely cast their votes? >> i think the publicity, the level of publicity that these complaints have reached has helped to inform voters of the rights, make sure that they know that they are able to cast their ballots free from harassment and intimidation, and then that there is a recourse to report these incidents that -- and that there are other avenues that they can return their ballot if they feel intimidated at a certain location. but it is imperative that these investigative bodies are quickly to address this, because there are ten days left in the election, and the courts made it clear that they will not stop it now, so we need quick action from the investigative of 30s. >> what's at stake here in your states races? if any one of these republican election deniers winds in your state, what does that mean, and

is that being crystallized enough for the voters of your state? >> arizona has been ground zero for so much level of activity, based on trump's big lie. we had the mayor -- that played out for a good six months here. even ground zero for some month. arizonans are well aware of what is at stake here, and they also are tired of it. they're ready to move on and focus on issues that really, there are urgent, that we need letters to adjust them, instead of continuing to do on the selection of the past, but what is clear is that these folks are running at the behest of the former president. he's interested in folks that will be loyal to him instead of the will of the voters, and there is the potential for them to do real harm and actually overturn the will of the voters and future elections if they're elected, so we have to stop them. >> can i ask you about the break-in at your campaign office this week?

what have you learned about it? your opponent kari lake said that the break-in was staged, and i want to give you a chance to respond to them. >> i think it says a lot about her lack of leadership, that her first response to this incident in this incredibly vitriolic political climate, where we're seeing political violence across the spectrum, that his first response was to accuse me of picking it. this is absolutely not a fake break-in, it's being investigated by police, a person was arrested, and our first response was not to denounce this kind of activity but to call me a liar, and this is another instance where it shows her disqualification to be a leader of our state. instead of calling out this kind of political violence that we are seeing, this is voter intimidation that we are seeing a drop boxes that you mentioned, she is continuing to agree on. >> can i ask about the debate

here for a moment. you refused to debate kari lake. can you talk about your decision and what you say in response to the critics that said that was the wrong move? we called out candidates on the republican side who have refused to debate the democrats and other races across this country. why did you not want to debate her head to head? >> her entire platform for running for governor has boiled down to trump's big lie and her furthering of that big lie, accusing me of fraud in the last election and then continuing to -- political attacks. i'm simply not going to give her a bigger stage to do that, and i have chosen to make my case directly to voters in town hall style interviews, and that's the way we will continue for the next ten days. >> are you at all surprised by how close this race is given the fact that she is an election denier and gone down that road of lying about the

2020 election, making that the central issue of her campaign? >> arizona is a battleground state, so no, i am not surprised at all. we knew that it would be a tough fight and a close race. when i won in 2018, it was by less than 1%. joe biden's margin of victory here was less than half a percent, and so, it's a fight to the finish. we're not taking a single vote for granted, and we will continue to make the case to voters of how dangerous kari lake is, how bad she will be for the state of arizona, and i am the right person to lead the sea into the future. >> so much of our conversations, rightfully so, have been about election denialism and our democracy at the threats to voters. i do want to give you a chance to talk about your platform here, the issues that feel, that you feel matter the most to voters. what do you feel is the most important issue in front of your constituents day in and day out? >> i think it's very clear that

democracy is on the ball, and i certainly don't want to minimize that as an issue, it's something that i talked to voters about every day, but arizonans are really feeling the pinch from inflation. we have been hit very hard in arizona, largely because of rising housing prices, and so, arizonans are feeling the pinch, it's why we put out a plan to help them put money back into their pocket with tax breaks on everyday items, some proposals that would put arizonans back to work by expanding access to childcare and tax credit for pursuing career and technical education, and an income tax cut for 100,000 arizonans with a child tax credit. those are the kind of plans we're putting out to help ensure arizonans have answers to the economic struggles that they are feeling right now because of inflation. kari lake's plans do nothing to address inflation, in fact, economic experts have looked at them and said, it will get

worse and would actually cripple cities and their ability to provide public safety for the residents. arizonans are concerned about public education and making sure that we are investing dollars in the costume to keep teachers who are losing teachers every day in our classrooms, and arizonans are concerned about access to reproductive health care and making sure we protect safe and legal abortion in the state of arizona. >> before you go, secretary hobbs, can i get your thoughts on the attacks on speaker pelosi's husband paul? what did you make of that development this week? >> in the climate that we are in, that i have already talked about, the incredible level of the trial and the so-called political leaders who keep getting it up and keep. they're not denouncing it. by not denouncing it, they're promoting it, and this is just a horrible, horrible instance of the, and we need leaders across the political aisle everywhere to denounce this

kind of violence, and is the sounds from the republicans on this has been deafening. >> all right, arizona secretary of state and gubernatorial candidate katie hobbs, thank you so much for your time this evening, appreciate it. >> thanks. >> up next, one woman struggle to vote thanks to republican restrictions in georgia, but first, richard louis is here with headlines. hey, richard. >> hey, ayman, a man, some of the stories we're following. ricky news, 150 are dead and dozens injured after a massive stampede following a halloween event or. as many as 100,000 people attended the festivities. most of the victims were teenagers are in the twenties. russia's military says moscow is suspending its participation in an agreement to export grain and other agricultural products from ukrainian ports in crimea. this comes hours after russia accused ukraine of attacking ships in crimea. that was part of the green initiative. and general motors is spending its advertising on twitter following elon musk takeover of

the social media platform. a detroit automaker, rival to musk tesla, said it's pausing unpaid advertising but will continue to use twitter to indirectly customers. more ayman wet ayman mohyeldin after the break. after the break. ll day without heavy perfumes? try downy light in-wash freshness boosters. it has long-lasting light scent, no heavy perfumes, and no dyes. finally, a light scent that lasts all day. downy light!

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obligation to prevent, to guarantee a free and fair vote by everyone who is qualified to

vote and will not permit voters to be intimidated. >> that was attorney general merrick garland this week pledging to protect voters from intimidation ahead at the midterms. experts warn that the national extremist groups have localized their efforts this election cycle, targeting neighborhood ball boxes. and beyond the physical threats to casting about, there are also deal just a cool legislative hurdles. since 2021, state lawmakers are on the u.s. have passed at least 42 new restrictive voting laws, like in georgia, where many voters are encountering the state's so-called election integrity act for the first time. just last week, jennifer jones, a morehouse school of medicine ph.d. student was told she could not cast their ballot early because her validity as a voter have been challenged. under georgia's new law, any state resident, for whatever reason can question the eligibility of and on limited number of voters. it has created chaos in the states early voting process.

jennifer jones has not given up. she's vowing to challenge -- tempo in this election. she told the guardian, quote, my grandmother marched with dr. martin the thinking, my family fought for this, i am the next generation that she was fighting for, and i am not about the up. jennifer jones joins me now. walk us through how this came about, walk us through your experience trying to cast an early ball in your home state of georgia. >> thank you for having me on the show. last tuesday on a cooper 18th, i showed up at this one library that allows me to vote, and normally i walk in and hand my idea to the proper poll worker, however, on this day, the poll worker asked me if i had any issues voting in the past, and i told her no. i voted -- upon her saying that to me, she said that my vote was being

challenged, or my identification was being challenged. i did not understand what she was talking about when she said those words. she'd called two external sources to verify it or to make sure that the challenge comes off. they say that although i had nothing wrong with my identification, that even my precinct card was up today, that there is no way that they'll remove the challenge, and i had to use a provisional ballot and submit additional identification. >> after being told that you could not vote that they, given your given a provisional ballot, you told the guardian, quote, i did not know if it would be counted properly. do you have faith in your states electoral process? is there a way to find out if your vote has been counted or will be counted properly? >> i did not take the provision about. they did suggest or matthews

the professional about, but i walked out without having anything in my hand and without casting my vote. but i do have faith on the electoral process because we have stacey abrams who is doing everything in her power to help people like me to vote and with verify america and election protection, they allow me to vote within two business days with fixing and removing the charges on my identification. >> was that process like? you've since been able to vote. walk us through how you're finally able to cast a ballot? >> yes, so after i was told pretty much that i could not vote, i was pretty disappointed, but i knew that there was a solution, so my mother, she has the election protection flyers that they distributed to the neighborhood, as well as when i reached out the fair fight america, there were representatives, i believe a lawyer who reached out to me and informed me about election

protection as well. i contacted them and the volunteers -- referred me to helen butler. within two business days, on tuesday i was unable to vote, but on thursday, i was able to vote, and i cast my ballot this past tuesday. >> what is your message? what's your big message to your fellow voters in georgia who may also experience difficulty casting a ballot this election season? >> cannot feel intimidated by these suppressive laws, especially with espy 2022. just not be intimidated if anything happens. just contact election protection. if you are kind of nervous about talking to election protection about the issues, just tell your neighbor, tell your friends and family, and you never know who is going to hear you, and who will be able to help you. >> all right, jennifer jones, thank you for making time with us. i greatly appreciate it. i am glad you are able to cast their vote. everyone should, thank you.

>> thank you. >> our conversation to the struggle to vote continues after the break. when we discuss growing intimidation efforts from conspiracy peddlers. don't go anywhere. don't go anywhere. (vo) what can a nationwide 5g network from t-mobile for business do for your business? unlock new insights and efficiency-right now. allow monitoring of productivity at remote job sites, with next-generation bandwidth. enable ai cameras that spot factory issues in real time, using next-generation speed. and deliver ultra-capacity 5g

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covid-19. some people get it, and some people can get it bad. and for those who do get it bad, it may be because they have a high-risk factor. such as heart disease, diabetes, being overweight, asthma, or smoking. even if symptoms feel mild, these factors can increase your risk of covid-19 turning severe.

so, if you're at high risk and test positive, don't wait. ask your healthcare provider right away if an authorized oral treatment is right for you. as we discussed earlier with katie hobbs, i'm men just in tactical gear are cutting ballot job boxes in arizona hoping to stop nonexistent election fraud. pure and simple, it's voter intimidation, and a new nbc report traces the origin of the effect back to you my at guest it, donald trump social media site, truth social, who are months of conspiracy driven online discussion has not evolved into a very real life threat. let's discuss this and more with my saturday panel, molly jong-fast, the host of the fast politics podcast and kurt bourdeaux, is an adviser to the dnc and the dccc.

great to have both of you with. us, i'll start with you. what started as a meme has morphed into this national campaign to intimidate voters. that's the origin of this effort, does it really surprise you, or should it surprise you at this point at oh? >> no, remember, this is the party that decided that the best kind of health care for americans to receive during aid that the pandemic was too injected suffolk bleach. this is the party that has filed a leader who once looked up into a solar eclipse without any support over his eyes. no, none of this is surprising at all. it really goes to underscore that the republican party will latch onto anything it can in order to try to obtain power. that's the only thing to care about. it's never been about the issues, but substance, but solution, it's about trying to tap into so many crazy threats that they get those people, motivators people, excite and turns people out. it is not really matter what

anyone believes, it just matters if they can use these things as cultural grievances that they imagined as what issues to try to turn votes. >> molly, there's this new poll that found that 43% of americans concerned about that's violence or voter intimidation at polling places, people used to be excited about election day, now they are nervous if not outright afraid of the safety. how do we care? >> we got here through a lot of republican politicians saying that there was fraud, when there wasn't and sowing this kind of anxiety with their base. i would say the difference between taking -- for covid and this assault on democracy, the people being hurt here are all of us. it's really scary.

i think it's really problematic. i think that republican politicians and a fox news wanted, fox news would stop it tomorrow. they could say, look, we know the truth, we've seen all of these lawsuits. we've seen proof that there were recounts in lots of states. i think even arizona, even the cyber ninjas, even they did not find fraud. we know that there was no fraud. and if they do that tomorrow, it could save democracy, but they don't want to do it because they don't want to alienate the pace. >> kurt, we just had jennifer jones on the show, a woman in georgia who is trying to vote and told she could not cast a ballot early because her validity as a voter had been challenged. she fought it successfully, was able to vote, but for some voters, that might not be an option, especially if you do it close to election day, especially if they don't have the ability to invest the time and resources needed to challenge that. is this not a type of voter

suppression that is playing out in georgia right now? >> of course it is. it is a deliberate effort of sabotage from republican party to specifically target -- those that they perceive to be less able and less capable of fighting back. i wish that the media would spend as much time on these issues as they have on all the bs poles that they spent the last three months talking about. because the important thing that everybody needs to understand is that this election is not being fought on the same playing field as the last election. this election is actually a little bit less fair, a little bit less free. republicans have gone state by state and codified voter suppression, and it is manifesting itself in ways that the framers of the -- architects of our government can never about jim. i'm afraid that what that means on election day i'm. afraid of the type of intimidation tactics, the potential for violence, the efforts by these people walking

around pretending to be vigilante enforcers of voter integrity and what that type of conflict could mean at the polls. it's kind of like you said, elections used to be a joyous occasion in this country. people looked forward to it. we look forward to seeing the people work in the polls we see year after year. there was a sense of community in harmony. that has been obliterated by with the publican party is there right now. >> molly, last week, you had charges dismissed against hervis rogers, a houston man who after waiting hours to vote in 2020 was charged with voting illegally while on probation. rodgers says that he was unaware that he was doing anything illegal. it is a positive and result, like we saw with jennifer jones, but onlookers, his case took years to reach. is this how the system is supposed to work? >> no, i think republicans decide that they could not win on their ideas so they decide to make it harder to vote. they saw even in 2020, they saw

arizona and nevada and states that were -- and georgia, states that were traditionally red states starting to blue. i think the way that they responded to that anxiety was not to try to reach out to those voters, but to make it harder for those voters to vote. and so you have a situation in florida, ron desantis get this whole show of voter protection committee where he then arrested a lot of people who did not even know that they had done anything wrong because they were illegally voting. the idea here is to make it scary devote and to make it so the people who are worried won't vote. i think that that is one of the biggest scary things happening in our democracy right now. >> kirk, let me switch gears a bit to a piece you wrote about the midterms. you wrote, quote, failing to acknowledge the shortcomings appalling, the media are giving

the public a full skewed representation of how competitive the election may be in running the risk of making those predictions a self fulfilling prophecy. explain that to us, walk me through it. >> it's interesting because after the 26 election, we heard how all the polling was wrong, donald trump won when he was not supposed to. everyone was shocked. at the 2020 election, we heard how polling was wrong, pollsters said, they don't really know to do to adjust things to make things more accurate. knowing that there is this pattern of behavior now of pulling not matching with what the electorate actually ends up doing, every election cycle we play the same song and dance. we have poll after poll being talked about as if it is accurate, as if it is a real depiction and science behind it that somehow it's proven, when time and time again, isn't. we had this for the better part of a year now, this narrative that a red wave is forming, that democrats face huge -- that it's an almost certainty

that the moose the majority, and media and supplying the role of telling the american people that, the election is pretty much over. i use the analogy, what would you rather watch? but rather watch a close game or block game? if you watch a blowout game on tv, we'll change the channel. the democratic equivalent to that is if you are telling american people that this election is decided, why would anyone vote? why bother showing up? it could actually have a massive impact on peoples behavior and attitudes. i think the media is the more responsible. if we get to election night and it turns out that democrats win this thing, everyone will be sitting around going, oh my god, what a shocker, i can't believe all the polling was wrong. how many times are gonna play that song and dance before we change it up? >> it's a good point. panel, stick around, we have a lot more to discuss after the break. the latest on the violent attack on speaker pelosi's has been, don't go anywhere. n't go anywhere. thick n fluffy french toast. artisan challah dipped in vanilla cinnamon batter. french toast the way it's meant to be. try all three flavors. only at ihop. download the app and earn free food with every purchase.

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>> new tonight, has beaker nancy pelosi has made her first official statement about the brutal attack against her husband. she says, in part, quote, yesterday, a violent men broke into our family home, he tried to come from me and protect my husband paul. our children, our grandchildren and i are heartbroken and traumatized by the life-threatening attack on our pop. this as the u.s. capital police just sent a memo to all members of the house of representatives and their staff acknowledging the attack on speaker pelosi's husband paul and noting that, quote, the uscp threat assessment is working around the clock to stop thousands of

potential threats in their tracks. here is president obama earlier today. >> if our rhetoric about each other, gets that mean, when we don't just disagree with people but we start demonizing them, making wild crazy allegations about them, that creates a dangerous climate. >> according to new reporting in axios, members of congress are sounding new alarms about their personal security and broader concerns about what the jumpy of threats against prominent political figures means for them and for the country. friday's attacks against speaker pelosi's has been hit especially hard because of where it happened, inside the personal residence at the woman second in line to the presidency. violence and threats of violence against lawmakers as well as judges, election workers, federal law enforcement and other public

officials are on the rise. according to axios, security is struggling to keep pace. congresswoman debbie -- put it bluntly saying that somebody is going to die. my panel is back with me. molly, somebody is going to die, it is very tough to hear when you look at it in the context of everything that is been happening the last couple of years, but it's ringing true. >> yeah, and it's so predictable. this is operated nancy pelosi's husband who is wealthy, in a blue city in a blue state. imagine what it's like for debbie dingell. michigan is a blue state, but that is a state with a long and scary history of a militia. they tried to kidnap the governor there. there are places, and i know this, i've interviewed people for my pockets, democrats in red states, the democrats who tried to run against louis gohmert in 2020.

they had real dots under security, and it's really scary. even now, you are seeing conservatives online saying, that it was not true, spreading false rumors about it. an 82-year-old man was attacked in his home with a hammer, and they are saying it did not really have been. i think that this is not the way to solve any problems, and it's pretty scary. >> kurt, your reaction to the attack on paul pelosi and what it means? >> it is the inevitable outcome of a party that is unleashed itself in extremism, and people who make domestic terrorists. when you decide that violence is the answer, and if you don't get your way, if you don't win elections, you're going to instead seek these kinds of means to achieve your political goals, that's the definition of terrorism or, that's what they like this is going on and i got the country in the world, we

would be calling the an act of terror. that's really what is going on right now. that's not just isolated to this particular situation, molly, the reference the kidnapping plot of the mission and governor gretchen whitmer. it was determined that someone pled guilty to turning to murder congressman eric swalwell of california. that's have been on the rise across the board, and it is coming from one political party in america, this is not a both sides issue. this is not rhetoric is really high on both ends of the political spectrum. there is one side and one side only that is awarded a capitol flag to a january 6th domestic terrorist like looming comer did. so i want to go party saying, wouldn't it be great if i hit speaker nancy pelosi and ahead with the gavel, like kevin mccarthy did. there's only one political party where time and again, use their platforms and their offices to promote violence and make light of it, and it's the republican party. >> molly, i want to play some of what fox said last night about this attack.

watch. >> the democrats in the media have been ignoring -- only cover it when nancy pelosi is attacked. where is the media when dozens of americans have been attacked. people are hit with hammers every day. people are being pushed into subway, slashed, shot in cold blood, but the media focuses on this one single crime depend on republicans, come on. >> what do you make of that response, molly? >> republicans decided that the midterms were going to be about crime, and you see it on fox news every day, right? the 2020 election, republicans had decided that it was all going to be about this caravan, right? not they admitted to crimes. whatever they're on, and you notice they won't talk, for example, you'll see them cover a crime, but they won't talk about guns, because they don't want gun control, they just want people to be scared of crime.

and this was a politically motivated crime. the guy came in and set, where is nancy? he was not there to her poll pelosi, right? and clearly this is just a way that they're trying to spin it. the thing that is so sad to me is that there is an opportunity here -- there is an opportunity to say this is not okay. they should not be happening, and fox could do it tomorrow. they just don't want to. >> kurt, you have some republicans, including the former vice president mike pence, minority steve scalise who have condemned the attack, but many more have stayed silent, and some conservatives even seemed to mark paul pelosi. a simple question for you is why? why is the republican party like this? >> because this is what they want. when you're the governor of virginia, glenn youngkin, and you're marking this type of thing, like you did the other day, it is sending out the signal that you're okay with it. you're condoning it. you accept it.

you want people to act this way. you want people to use violent means to achieve political goals. so many in the republican party now have decided and made a conscious decision, and it is a choice that these are the people that they want on their side. these are the people, the people that chanted, hang mike pence, these are the people that they need their votes in order to obtain power, and they're okay with a little violence and death if that's what is takes to get their. i think it's just a very dangerous development, and it's only going to get worse as time goes on. the longer that there is not accountability from the political leaders, the more that these people are going to take matters into their own hands, and we will see threats and more violent acts. as congresswoman dingell said, people will die, and blood will be on the hands of every single republican in office. >> panel, please stick around, we have a lot more to discuss after the break. kanye west has finally face some consequences for his actions. hi actions.

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it's like, i could literally say antisemitic -- and they can drop me. i could say antisemitic things, and adidas can drop me. >> that clip is less than two weeks old, and man, how the tables have turned. this week, kanye west was finally held accountable after weeks of spouting offensive antisemitic tropes and conspiracies. companies including vogue, jpmorgan chase, balenciaga, gap and yes, finally adidas, all cut ties with west, which might cost him more than a billion dollars in lost revenue. but even punishing congress does not stop the spread of his disgusting beliefs. the washington post michel bernstein and isaac -- wrote this week that between trump and kanye west, antisemitism is back on full public display, though many longtime watchers note that has never really gone away. quote, but what aztec some

experts's help lay in the comments about jews are at a time when incidents of harassment, vandalism and violence against them have been at their highest level since at least the 1970s. they write, recent data already showed that a majority of american jews fear violence against them. and that fear in part stems from a lack of accountability because even though kanye west has been held accountable, donald trump has not. as what was right in the post history, congrats, you cancel county, call me when white guys get in trouble. my saturday night panel is back with me. molly, i'll start with you, is free speech that because kanye west can't go defcon three on jewish people? >> well, i would say that free speech is not that. obviously, it's more of a question without beechwood of consequence. if you will say something that is antisemitic, you are going to lose your advertisers and

your platform, and i think that is not unreasonable. the thing that is so shocking is we have corporations who have more of a moral compass than the gop. because kanye is out for donald trump, who tweeted very similar during a couple weeks before, has faced no consequences, no disavowing, nothing. so i do think that there has to be -- there are consequences for speech, it's the world. if you say something terrible, people won't like you. i think that that is what this is. i am shocked that republicans still won't disavow the antisemitic stuff, and that there are jewish republicans who somehow don't think that antisemitism is a huge problem in the gop. >> some of the antisemitism is coming from within the republican party, which makes it that much more shocking. we have people like marjorie taylor greene, donald trump and

others, who they won't condemn and simply won't quote, cancel, if you will. her, how the heck that this takes a long? the thing for me is, kanye aurier has not been seeing this instantly offensive stuff, this antisemitic stuff over the last few weeks. it's been going on for years. in 2018, he literally said slavery was a choice, as in kidnapped enslaved blacks chose to be enslaved. he said in pheasant things by his ex wife's boyfriend. he's made all kinds of other comments. he's done offensive stunts like the white lives matter t-shirts, and yet, it took this long for him to face the consequences, as molly said. >> well, i think that ultimately, what we saw was greed. the reason why someone can get away with so much for so long is that there are -- element of corporate greed at play, and when people in the corporate world and the sponsor brandt looked at kanye west,

they saw an atm machine. they saw the power of his brand, the popularity of his issues, and they were very -- cut off the road finished room. it wasn't until things hit critical mass in terms of public opinion that we started seeing powerful people like our emmanuel come out and say, don't be in the country was business. unfortunately, that's what it takes to do the right thing. even as we speak right now, there's a situation in brooklyn with kyrie irving, that the brooklyn nets are having to confront with him sharing antisemitic content, and they will have to decide, do they want to be in the kyrie irving business. nike will have to decide, do they want to be in the korean business or no? there is something to, by the way, about the inequity of the fact that when people of color do something, there is a lot of accountability called, but when white people empower who mimic the same behavior, who exit on, who again incite that type of commentary's, they get rewarded

it seems particularly on the republican party. people like donald trump, people like marjorie taylor greene and her jewish space lasers from outer space, whatever that was, they get rewarded for public office and adoration and if. so we have a lot of work to do about it, but it is jarring, to take it back to initial point that this is so -- it is 2022 for crying out loud, and this stuff is so wide open and out there. there are people espousing does things, and they're proud of it. >> my, i wanted to get your reaction to this piece in the washington post i alluded to earlier. it's from call miss karen -- she writes that karen's ramp it antisemitism and anti black racism demanded cancellation. but she said what about folks like joe rogan, tucker carlson and of course donald trump? all of them have traffic it in different forms of racism and never seem to face any consequences for it. >> tucker carlson lost a lot of

advertisers, so as long as tucker has the murdoch's, he has -- the minute loughlin decides he does not want to support tucker carleton anymore, that is it. but i mean, i think what joe rogan, that is a good point, and it was a long -- he spread a lot of misinformation about vaccines and medical stuff, and it was really quite dangerous and scary. i think ultimately, is this tipping point. it is one does the disgusting this get the public outcry, and i do think that the public outcry was faster for kanye than it has been for joe rogan. i guess in a certain way,, yeah, this is all very unfair. we see and are living in america is racist and anti-semitic, and people like

trump are getting away with stuff. you know, yeah, i think it's really problematic and that. i think the -- i still don't understand why -- i just don't understand why there needs to be this kind of hate. it's so, you know, really heartbreaking. >> kurt, we have about 20 seconds left, but should apple and spotify drop kanye west, or can they separate the arctic from the heat? >> no, i think that they are one and the same at this point. every company right now that is in the county was business has the opportunity to make a decision and make a stand. i do support and wanted to do a thing or you want to keep making money off an antisemite. that is their call. >> it's a very simple question. i should not be a difficult one to answer. my joan, kurt bardella, thank you so much for joining us this evening. greatly appreciate your time and insights. thank you for making time for us.

come back tomorrow night, 9 pm eastern on msnbc, i'll be joined by wisconsin attorney general josh kaul brush off his campaign with president obama. we'll discuss what his office is doing to combat the growing number of election challenges facing his state. until then, i am ayman mohyeldin live in new york, goodnight. rk goodnight. but there are ways you can repair it. i'm excited about pronamel repair because it penetrates deep into the tooth to help actively repair acid-weakened enamel. i recommend pronamel repair to my patients. (vo) you can be well-dressed. to help actively repair acid-weakened enamel. (man) wahoooo! (vo) you can be well-groomed. or even well-spoken. (man) ooooooo. (vo) but there's just something about being well-adventured. (man) wahoooooo! (vo) adventure on a deeper level. discover more in the subaru forester wilderness. love. it's what makes subaru, subaru. subaru is the national park foundation's

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