the movie clueless. >> we talk all the time about how angry this country, is and how divided is. it's likely to become angry, or those of the big headlines, before below those headlines there's good people doing good things every day. and what is that? it makes for a great time. it's not just about taking care of those around you, your friends your family, it's about if you need help, ask for, it but if you can get help, give it. are there ways to share the joy, spread the wealth? we're doing it here in new york city, and invited people from all different neighborhoods, to celebrate with candy, then, parties caused him, parties and fun. there are ways this is happening all over the country, so people aren't so angry. they are loving thy neighbor, they are doing good, and there's no better time to do it then on halloween. happy halloween everybody, i'll see you at the end of tomorrow. u at the end of tomorrow

happy halloween, i defy anyone to ever surpass my childless old white lesbian costume, i know it's my greatest contribution to our culture. if you ever want to buy one, i recommend -- anyway, happy halloween. his name is jair bolsonaro. and he just did something nobody has ever done before. jayapal snow is the very far-right president of brazil. in brazil, if you are lucky enough to get elected president and a run for reelection, you win reelection, no brazilian president running for reelection has ever lost. before jair bolsonaro. it was close, but he lost. the first brazilian president to ever lose a bid for reelection. now, i mentioned that he is like trump. one of the ways in which he is like trump's that he has had a hard core base of supporters

that thought everything he did was great, and everyone else thought he was a terrible president. in fact, the polls were indicating, clearly for months, and months, and months, that the majority of the population of brazil considered him to be such a bad president that he was on track to lose reelection. the polls have been for telling the story for months. as the polls predicted, correctly as it turned out, that jair bolsonaro would lose this effort at reelection. he did the things that these guys all the one they're facing a kind of a prospect, he did what trump did, he did the things they all do. he started telling his supporters in advance that if he loses the election than they shouldn't accept the results it will only be because the election was rigged against them. he told his supporters that if he lost the election, they should not only not accept the results, they should be ready

to go for war. go to war for him. that is the war -- jair bolsonaro, in his, casey also got the military substantially in mind along these lines, which raised fears that not only what he refused to acknowledge the election result if he lost, like trump, not only would he make false claims of fraud in the election if he lost like trump, not only would he encourage his supporters to themselves reject the election results, including potentially by force like trump. in his case, because of the way that he quoted the military ahead of this election. he also raise additional fears that he would attempt a military coup, what trump national security adviser advised trump to do. declare martial law, send in the actual military against the rest of the country to use military force to keep the ousted president in power. bolsonaro lost the election last night, sunday night in

brazil. so far, he has said nothing in response. he hasn't been seen in public, he has made no public remarks, there was one public statement from his son who is kind of donald trump jr. of brazil. if don jr. were senator. mr. bolsonaro sun put out a statement thanking their supporters and their voters, not exactly conceding but at least acknowledging that something was over. it was something but it wasn't clear. but bolsonaro himself hasn't conceded. nobody knows what he is going to do. it was publicly reported in brazil today that bolsonaro was going to make some sort of public address. it was reported that a concession speech had been written for him, and that was the speech was going to make, either this afternoon or tonight. he didn't do that. and then after he didn't appear by the expected time, soon thereafter, it was reported that he won't make any remarks tonight at all. he moat make remarks until tomorrow. whereupon, what? what is he going to do? is he going to concede? is he going to call for war?

is it gonna be something in between. there are 26 states in brazil, bolsonaro supporters as of tonight have blocked roads and bridges in 20 of those 26 states. over 200 roadblocks in all, including a total roadblock across the main highway in brazil between the two largest cities in the country. são paulo and rio de janeiro. they've also blocked the main bridge between rio and its suburbs across the bay. nobody knows how long these kinds of blockades are going to last, or if they're going to escalate. nobody knows if bolsonaro is going to try to call off the military and roll tanks in the streets to take over by force. but news reports in brazil say that while bolsonaro was busy not giving his plan concession speech today, he was said to be meeting for hours with his defense secretary. so, what is going to happen tomorrow in brazil, we don't know. president biden has called the

guy who beat bolsonaro and offered his congratulations, congratulating the new president elect. but, even as president biden was calling the new president elect, the newspapers in brazil today carried a statement from trump advisor steve bannon, saying there's no possibility that the election result is correct, that bolsonaro should start a months long ballot by ballot audit of the results and that whatever he does, he definitely shouldn't leave office. he should stay in office despite the election results. in a livestream last night, responding to the election results in brazil, steve bannon said it more bluntly. he said bolsonaro quote can't concede. can't concede. why not? why can't he concede? why do you care, steve bannon? this is the part that is about us, about us in our country,

and our election next week. because why do you think it is that this top white house adviser to former president donald trump, why do you think it is that he is telling this guy in brazil, this trump like far-right buffoonish unpopular brazilian president who has just been voted out of office, why is steve bannon telling him that he shouldn't admit to the election results, he should admit that he has been voted out, he cannot concede? i do think bannon is doing that? do you think steve than it has some substantive fact based beliefs about the integrity of brazil's elections? do you think he has some facts that he knows that have made him concerned about how votes are counted in são paulo? really? do you think he has important information about something being wrong with a voting machine in this area, or some of the place in brazil he has never been to that and probably mispronouncing? why do you think steve bannon cares? why did trump endorsed bolsonaro, and endorses voter

fraud claims in advance of the election. -- hoax, they are erekat, we should use them, we know better. this line of attack, it isn't

about anyone election, it is not about any particular allegation of something being wrong with something, it is about elections as elections. it's about elections as a category. you can see it at work in all of these different instances. there's no exceptions here, it is a rule. you can see it at work with trump and his remorse, like steve bannon insisting that trump guys all around the world shouldn't have to abide by election results. you can see it at home, coming into sharper focus now. now that we are eight days out from the next national election. trump issuing a new endorsement of the republican candidate who is running against senator maggie in new hampshire. in this election. trump endorsed him out by saying outright, what he likes about the guy is that he is quote, a strong and proud election denier. bracing that term now, you must be a strong and proud election denier. those are trump's words in order to get his endorsement. as the de facto leader of the

republican party. you also see it in that of footage that is being aired by fox news over the past few days of trump calling the republican senate candidate in arizona, this guy blake masters, the one who is running against democratic senator mark kelly. trump tells him on the call hey blake masters, you're doing great, but you need to go harder and louder and more insistent on the issue of election denial. you need to be more out there, volunteering all the time, saying that elections shouldn't count. blake masters says yes, i'll do that, i'll go hard on that issue. why does trump need that? what is trump knew that from the senate candidate in arizona or the senate candidate in nevada. they're not gonna be voting on anything related to the 2020 election. why does trump want to do this? why does he want all republican candidates at every level to insist that elections are for suckers? and election results don't count. the reason was to do this is so

this idea that elections shouldn't be the way we do things anymore, that becomes the operating principle of the republican party. it is working, within the republican party. ever since trump won the republican nomination for president in 2016, thanks to a republican primary system, he said was rigged and fraudulent. and then he won the general election that year and still said that there was fraud in that election, there were millions of illegal votes cast in that election. even in elections that he wins, he says there was fraud. right through to the 2020 campaign were even before the election he claimed that election was fraudulent and that it shouldn't count. why would you try to undermine faith in an election that you won? why would you try to undermine faith in elections in other countries that most americans can't spell. why would you try to get everybody in your party to say that election results don't count? even when they are not in a position to reverse some sort of election results to put you back in power? it is so that the idea that

elections don't count becomes the operating principle of the republican party. selections are messed up, insist that you have proof of some kind that you can show it now but you have it. proof that the elections are messed up. on the basis of your false claims that the elections are messed up, then send about actually messing up elections. to prove your point. that's the phase we're in right now, there are 67 counties in pennsylvania, in 50 of those 67 counties, the elections chiefs have left office since the last election because of threats and intimidation. 50 out of the 67 counties in the state. how smoothly do you think elections are going to go in that state this year? in nevada, there are 17 counties, election supervisors in ten of the 17 counties in the state have left already or now they're leaving. again, ahead of threats and intimidation from the political

right. you may have seen the news over the weekend about this republican-controlled county in nevada that is breaking its election system so profoundly they are swearing in dozens of citizens to be citizen hand counters of their ballots. that is the only way they want to count. this is a system they are nearly inventing that last week took 60 people wonderful day to count 900 votes poorly. 60 people counting, a full day's work, less than 1000 votes counted. here is the associated press quote, two groups of five counters that the ap observed spent about three hours each counting 50 ballots. mismatched tallies led to recounts, and occasionally to more recounts. several of the counters noted how arduous process what, with one volunteer limiting, i can't believe it's two hours to get to 25 ballots. if this is how you're going to count them, this is a county with 33,000 registered votes.

it took 60 people a full day to get through less than 1000 votes. they have got 33,000 registered voters in that county. they are getting rid of the election system there effectively, they're having randoms personally rifle through the ballots and see what they can come up with. to get to 30,000 votes on election day, that might take them a few months, i don't know maybe a year to get some kind of tally. nobody will have much faith in it when they do, it is a system. say the elections are messed up on the basis of that, actually do mess them up. then, when the elections are messed up, claimed vindication. and show everyone hey, look, this election thing used to do is too broken to even try to use them anymore. wow, what a mess. why would anyone believe those results? let's throw the results out. this is underway, this is a

linear plan. but if elections aren't real, if election results shouldn't be used, if we shouldn't trust election results anymore anywhere. if elections shouldn't be what we do anymore, what is it that we should do instead? if it is not going to be elections, if it's not democracy, then what do we do instead? jair bolsonaro in brazil has been preparing his supporters there that he may be rolling them for war. he has been working to get the military on his side in that war, it is not clear if the military were do, that it's also not clear if bolsonaro we'll actually pull the trigger and try to set it off. that's the question, asked a live question time. here's the headline tonight in the new york times. after defeat, bolsonaro is silent, and brazil braces for turmoil. the bracing for turmoil. we are bracing for our own kind

of turmoil here if. one of our two major parties doesn't believe in elections anymore, if they don't want elections to be the way we design, things what do they want instead? how will that work here? this was the district ernie and san francisco, california. >> i'm here today to formally announce charges against mr. david depape in connection with the violent attack on mr. pelosi. the charges we are following today include attempted murder, residential burglary, assault with a yellow up and, elder abuse, falls in placement of an elder as well as threats to a public official and their family. mr. to pap specifically targeted the pelosi home to confront speaker pelosi. he forced his way into the home through a rear crawl glass door by breaking that glass. the defendant made his way

upstairs to the second floor of the home, locating mr. pelosi in his bed sleeping. he will come up, confronting him about the whereabouts of speaker pelosi. the defendant realizing that mr. pelosi had called 9-1-1, took mr. pelosi downstairs near the front door of the residents. two police officers arrived at the front door, two minutes after that 9-1-1 call. when that door was opened, the defendant was holding his hammer which mr. pelosi appear to be attempting to control by holding a portion of that hammer. the defendant then pulled the hammer away from mr. pelosi and violently struck him in the top of his head. the police then immediately apprehended the defendant. what we also have learned is that the defendant brought to the location of the pelosi residence a second hammer as

well as it ties, rope, and a roll of tape. what is clear based on the evidence that we have thus far is that this house and the speaker herself were specifically targets of the defendant. >> can you definitively say this was obviously politically motivated? >> yes, it appears as this was based on his statements and comments that were made in that house during his encounter with mr. pelosi, that this was politically motivated. >> would it be right to say that this was an assassination attempt? >> he was looking for the speaker, the federal affidavit contains a bit more information about other things that he is expressing. he certainly did enact, what we believe, is an attempt to murder her husband. >> he certainly did enact what we believe is an attempt to murder her husband. san francisco district attorney speaking tonight about a california state charges filed

against the man who police say tried to murder the husband of the speaker of the house, nancy pelosi. the man who fractured paul pelosi's skull with a hammer. now, you heard the da the reference the federal affidavit, that concerns the federal charges that are also being filed against the same suspect today. the criminal complaint related to those charges includes an affidavit from an fbi agent which does have more detail on the alleged attempted murder. it is fairly blood curdling. from that affidavit, i submit that there is probable cause to believe that david pop violated federal law by salting an immediate family member of the new york states official. nancy pelosi, the speaker of the united states of house of representatives. with the intent to retaliate against an official. there is probable cause to believe that he violated federal law by turning to cesar kidnapped a united states official, to it, nancy pelosi,

the speaker of the house. the facts of the investigation tonight reveal that the path was prepared to detain and injure speaker pelosi when he entered the pelosi residence in the early morning of october 28th. the path had zip ties, tape, rope, and at least one hammer with him that morning. in a mirandized and recorded interview of the path by san francisco police department officers, he provided the falling information. he said he was going to hold nancy hostage. if she were to tell him the truth, he would let her go. if she lied, he was going to break her kneecaps. he said he was certain that nancy would not have told the truth. in the course of the interview, he articulated the the view that he viewed nancy as the pack of lies told by the democratic party. he also explained that by breaking nancy's kneecaps, she would then have to be wheeled into congress, which would show other members of congress that there were consequences to their actions. then he stated that he broke into the house through a glass door, which was a difficult task that require the use of a hammer. he stated that paul pelosi was in bed and appeared surprised

by him. he told paul pelosi to wake up, he told paul pelosi that he was looking for nancy. pelosi responded that she was not present. paul pelosi asked how they can resolve the situation and what the path wanted him to do. the cap stated that he wanted to tie paul pelosi. up around this time, according to the path, he started taking outweighs ties from his pocket so he could restrain paul pelosi. policy move towards another part of the house, but the tap stopped him. it goes on from there. paul pelosi managed to call 9-1-1. the police came and the police seeing the husband hitting pablo sea in the skull with a hammer and knocking him to the ground where he lay apparently unconscious. and pc news reports that paul pelosi is still in the icu tonight after the attack surrounding by family members. he is 82 years old, he reportedly has extensive injuries to multiple body parts including a fractured skull. donald trump jr. responded to

the attack by saying that he was working on his paul pelosi halloween costume. he posted a picture of a hammer and a pair of underwear. then he posted another picture of a hammer saying, it was for open carry in san francisco. that is the son of former president trump. charlie kirk, the head of a big pro trump conservative pack, he said today that some amazing patriot, that was his phrase, amazing patriot should post-bill for the attacker. that person would be a midterm hero if they did it. kari lake is the republican candidate for governor in arizona, she got a big laugh, a big round of applause on the subject this weekend. >> nancy pelosi, she has protection when she's in -- apparently her house doesn't have a lot of protection. [laughs] >> a big laugh for her.

play that tape again, you can see the moderate of the event on the left side of your screen, it looks like he is laughing so hard that he might fall over. it is just hilarious, fracturing his skull with a hammer. there's been a lot of reporting already about the assailant. his perceived release his writings online, his running online, he's a technical term, i would say he seems like a nut ball. that's how i would classify him. his recent writings, for what it's worth, they are all conspiracy theories and rantings that circulate on the far-right. holocaust denial, jewish bankers, covid vaccines, qanon stuff. he wrote q is trump himself. the real racism is racism against white people. and you know, i dismiss him as a not ball, and i speak about those things with derision.

in my opinion, honestly, none of us should feel advised to play in the sewer of that man's mind. once you hit someone in the head with a hammer. all of humanity is officially excuse from meeting to learn about your thoughts and feelings. but if you're a person who has all your faculties, and you know that something like this has happened, if you minimize it, market, celebrate it, the attempted murder of the speaker of the house's husband, what is now formally charged as the attempted kidnapping of the speaker of the house. if that is how you react to knowing this is happened, well then you are telling us what you want instead of politics. you are telling everyone what you want to be able to do, what you want your side to be able to do to your political opponents. what you enjoy seeing your political opponents subjected to. that is in fact the other option if we are not going to have elections anymore. it is either violence in force,

or it's voting. if it is not voting, then it is going to be violence in force. we are eight days out from the first national elections since the last republican president, the leader of the party try to stay in power by force. on friday a man pled guilty in federal court to threatening to kill congressman eric and his staff. also last week, three people were found guilty of their part in a militia kidnapping plot targeting the governor of michigan, today capitol police officer harry dunn testified in the seditious conspiracy trial of the pro trump paramilitary group, deep oath keepers. for the role in trump's effort to have a violent mob of his supporters overthrow the government and keep him in power by force. in power, by force, despite the election results. in power, despite the election

results and therefore by force. those are the choices, right? it is either elections, or it is for standing violence. we are eight days out, this election, a clear majority of republican candidates for congressional and statewide offices say election results should no longer count, they do not believe in election results. even below that level, in state legislative races, clear majorities in those races in the swing states, they say election results and count. they don't believe them, we shouldn't use elections anymore. if they do not want to have elections anymore, don't kid yourself that there is another good option. it is democracy, or it is not. if it is not, it is violence and force. this is the year, this is the election when your vote, up and down to the very bottom of the ballot, is an answer to this one question. is it democracy or is it force

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i love san francisco, but i'm working overtime to stay here. now is not the time to raise taxes. i'm voting no on propositions m and o, because the cost of everything is going up. san francisco collects more tax revenue than nearly any city in america. but our streets are dirty and public safety is not getting better. i'm working hard to live within my budget. the city should too. join me in voting no on m and o. now is not the time to raise taxes in san francisco. vote no on m and o.

statement from house speaker nancy pelosi, about they had salt, and what police say were an attempted murder attempt her against her husband at their san francisco home on friday. the new statement just out from nancy pelosi. it says, quote, since the horrific attack on paul friday, we've been deluged by thousands of messages conveying concerns and warm wishes, we are most grateful, thanks to the excellent trauma care team at san francisco general hospital, paul is making steady progress on what will be a long recovery process. our family thanks everyone for their kindness. >> paul pelosi's alleged attacker, now faces both state and federal charges, pursuant

to the attack, and it announcing the multiple state and federal felony charges connected to the case, law enforcement officials released a lot of new information about the attack, and what led the alleged assailant to the pelosi's door. joining me now is ben collins, he's a senior reporter covering this information, -- for nbc new. he has to work in a very dark place to help us understand this stuff better, for that we're always grateful, it's good to see you. >> good to see you, rachel. >> i want to ask you first, sort of a meta question, not specifically about the beliefs, or the sort of radicalization, if you can call that of the men whose the alleged assailant here. i want to ask you about how the country is discussing this matter in the wake of it. >> and whether we are essentially jumping into another from disinformation spiral on the story or whether there is some lengths to the fact based world. >> i hope there was links but there is a perfect storm of lives over the weekend.

this is something used to see with this information operations from foreign governments for five years ago, when there is basically no rules prohibiting them from doing this. on friday, while real reporters are out there trying to figure out what went on here, they hit this blog that was very explicitly qanon, cabal blog, that this guy was posting on. trying to figure out if that was real. lies spread incredibly quickly all over the internet, and the lies that were conducted where that this was building sort of myth making, this world building on the right, and on 4chan, and this place called the donald, and eventually on twitter, and eventually into marjorie taylor greene and elon musk. on saturday and sunday, we'll of the news winds with 100 10% certainty that the blood was his. they created a world in which paul pelosi was part of some sort of sex plot with this man and it was completely invented, but it was tweeted out by the richest man in the world, who

happens to own the largest social media platform in the world now, and that created this other reality. and by the time monday morning happened, by the time we all got to work at on monday morning, the watercolor conversation was isn't it crazy that a political assassination attempt almost happened. it was the opposite, it was debating whether or not a political assassination attempt even happened. someone who's trying to kidnap the speaker of the house, we instead the conversation was about a complete lie we based on literall mythical world making. >> one of the things that's happened in politics over the past six or seven years is that a lot of the unreality and disinformation and just made up stuff that circulates in politics, for political effect and for profit on the right, it ended up getting litigated,

right? so weird fantasies and lies, and disinformation about the election, ended up being channeled into the court system, where the courts went through these, things in a rational way like courts do, and through all those cases out. the court ended up being an important sieve, in terms of what gets attributed, we would've seen is having a factual basis. with the federal affidavit we saw from the fbi agent, related to the statement we got from the san francisco da, explain the state charges, and what were the circumstances that led to those charges, you do have detailed factual assertions that if you read them closely, seem to be rebutting these rumors and lies that are out there circulating, i wonder what you think about that as a potential, sort, of funneling process, or serving process for making sure that the truth stays connected to the stories? >> i think, at the end of the day, it's the thing that's gonna be on wikipedia that might help. that's the things that kids are gonna read years down the line, instead of probably history

books. however, in a moment, if you talk to somebody at a supermarket, you'd probably hear the lie that was pushed around by elon musk this weekend 50% of the time i guess we that's how pervasive this thing was, over the weekend. the other thing i want to bring up with this, is that this guy david depape, he was a fervent pizzagate believer, he thought he was doing something for the cause here he thought he was taking out the lead member of the cabal, but the second somebody actually acts on the things that these people want them to act on. the second something somebody does something they are agitated, for we they believe are eating kids in some cases, or at least do an immense corruption. the second that happens, they abandoned that person, they

throw him to the wolves. they created a whole world where this man was actually secretly in love, with the person he meant to go attack. so the problem right now in the space, is that they are incredibly cowardly about this you know, you have the tens of thousands of people saying the stuff saying they're gonna go to violence and somebody goes and does it, and they don't even disown that person, they just said it couldn't be us but it is them they talk about this violence all the time so they try to benefit from all sides in this, they need to maintain this permanent victimhood, this permanent idea that they can never be doing anything wrong. that they are committing weary, frequently now, political attacks, physical violent political terror attacks. >> ben collins, senior reporter for nbc news, on the disinformation, extremism beat for us, for which again we are

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scheme. we are eight days out for the midterm or elections, right? for the de facto leader of the republican party, their last president, they're all but certain nominee for president in the next election, this is a very awkward time to be dragged into court for criminal tax evasion. but i gotta tell you, that's like one egg in a full carton for him today. also, simultaneously, today, the criminal trial continues of trump's longtime friend, the chair of his inauguration committee, tom barrack. he is charged with acting as a secret agent of a foreign government, trying to influence the u.s. government, in order to make money for himself from a foreign power. also today, jury selection began a civil trial of trump and his company, over charges that he ordered his security guards to physically attack protesters, outside trump tower, during trump's campaign.

trump himself had to sit for a deposition in that civil case. that's not to be confused with the deposition we also had to sit for a couple weeks ago, in the defamation case, deriving from a woman alleging that he raped her in the mid 90s. also today, trump petitioned the u.s. supreme court, to step in and block the house of representatives, from getting a copy of his tax returns, which he's been desperately trying for years to get a preventable from seeing. now it's not his knock off social media site, ranting about how he can't believe the mar-a-lago classified documents federal criminal cases going on. even as one of his most loyal lieutenants, played the fifth before a grand jury, considering that case. which by the, way if you're keeping score at home, brings a number of people in trump's orbit who pled the fifth and recent cases, to at least nine. including trump himself, who spent hours taking the fifth, and yet another investigation, new york attorney general's investigation of his financial practices. also, in the justice department's investigation into his efforts to violently overthrow the government, on

january 6th, the justice department is now asking a federal judge to compel trump's white house counsel, and his deputy white house counsel to testify about their conversations with him, before that federal grand jury. we also the issues trans -- we paramilitary, group the oath keepers, who said they came to washington on january 6th, to fight, physically, to keep trump in power. at that trial today, it was dramatic testimony from capitol police officer harry dunn, who told the jury about physically blocking a group of oath keepers, from getting to nancy pelosi's office on january 6th. as he and his colleagues race to get her staffers to safety. that is what's going on around the leader of the republican party, just today all in a days work. eight days before the midterm elections, and all of this is not really unrelated to the precarious political moment were in. a system that operates on the rule of law, and free and fair elections, doesn't work all that well for a party whose leader is in personal legal jeopardy under that system, in all these different ways. whose family businesses literally on trial, right now, as of today, on criminal charges we pulitzer prime. -winning lawyer with suzanne

craig was in the court for that trial, she joins us in a moment. people have tried to write this story. and he kills it every time. we're not gonna let that happen. this is bigger than weinstein. this is about the system protecting abuses. i was silenced. i want my voice back. president biden has now signed the inflation reduction act into law. ok, so what exactly does it mean for you? out of pocket costs for drugs will be capped. for seniors, insulin will be just $35. families will save $2,400 on health care premiums.

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up the place where he inherited all's money, the head of the de facto republican party can still be a convicted felon, most business candy businesses don't go to prison, but what would it mean for his namesake business to be a felon? it doesn't sound good, but i'm not sure what the implications really are. i know who to ask, though, suzanne craig won a pulitzer prize for her new york times reporting on donald trump's financial history, she was in the courtroom today, sue, it's nice to see you, thanks for being here. >> thanks for having me. >> one of the potential consequences here? i understand that the dollar amount of the fine the company could face, isn't all that big, but if the company is convicted of a felony, it seems that weakens consequential and otherwise. >> the fine isn't inconsequential, is 1. 6 or 1. 7 million, it's not tax

deductible, because it's a fine, but it still small amount, because when you look at what he's facing in the civil suit the attorney general is bringing, which is into the hundreds of millions of dollars. so help pay the fine, but there's something that's known as collateral consequence. i like to think of it is collateral damage of what happens, when you have a criminal will come in, that company has done something, there's fraud involved and in fact happens. and this case is interesting because normally that's a huge deal for companies, especially publicly traded ones, but evenly privately held, ones when they have loans out for example, it can immediately trigger a payment of the loan. in the case of the trump organization, they do have a lot of debt, but they've recently shifted --

a number of them to deutsche bank, they have a number of loans outstanding. they have been moved to a smaller bank, they've re-financed with a bank in san diego, we don't know the terms of those loans, with a smaller bank that seems to be fairly trump friendly, so it's just hard to say right now, from a financial point of view we, if there is a guilty verdict, exactly what will happen. but i have a feeling they moved that they knew that this was on the horizon,, that there was something secured, here but we don't know. the other thing that could happen, and it's not so much in the suit, but in the civil suit coming out of new york, i know a lot of people are talking about it. but there could be civil lawsuits that arise anytime there's damages, a lot of times you know in a civil suit, in particular and banks are involved, they may sue because there's just something outstanding, and there's a responsibility to their shareholders. but in this, one it's really we're just not sure in terms of their lending, and how much liability they've got on the other end, since they moved to refinance that all in recent not quite months, but over the last year or so. >> in watching the prosecutors

lay out their opening statement today, did you learn anything interesting about how they're laying out the case, what the major allegations, are bizarre anything surprising or particularly interesting but the way they're trying to prove this case of the jury? >> we kind of, knew we had an idea, because allen weisselberg, the chief financial officer pled guilty to 15 counts of fraud, that he was gonna be the star witness. it's interesting just coming out today, is that he's a cooperating witness, but it's just gonna be really interesting to see how he threads the needle on that. the defense is saying that it was allen weisselberg, did this for his benefit, and he was a lone wolf, and the company didn't know. the burden on the prosecution is gonna say, we then it went up to the higher ranks of the company, they're not trying to show that is donald trump, donald trump is not on trial. but they're gonna have to show that the company knew and the company indoors, it but just to see today, just how allen weisselberg was framed, was fascinating, and the defense we know the way it even, say the trump organization, they still get alone along with him, they still paying him, he's done this horrible thing to the trump organization, so it's no longer cfo, but he still part of the family. we >> hear that in court today was quite powerful we. >> and when we finally seems to

take the stand it's gonna be absolutely fascinating, new york times investigative reporter susan i'm craig, thanks for helping us understand it tonight. >> we'll be right back, stay with us. for adults who are undetectable, cabenuva is the only complete, long-acting hiv treatment you can get every other month. cabenuva helps keep me undetectable. it's two injections, given by my healthcare provider, every other month. it's one less thing to think about while traveling. hiv pills aren't on my mind. a quick change in my plans is no big deal. don't receive cabenuva if you're allergic to its ingredients or taking certain medicines, which may interact with cabenuva. serious side effects include allergic reactions post-injection reactions, liver problems, and depression. if you have a rash and other allergic reaction symptoms,

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set all the evidence in the trash cans on fire. it's a spooky story for spooky season, and you can hear the whole thing for free on my new podcast, rachel maddow presents ultra, this reporter and the partially burned pieces of evidence, that he's piecing back together, while smoking, as part of episode five of ultra, which just posted today, you can get ultra free and wherever you get your podcast, if you don't know how to get your podcast, ask a friend, you have an app on your phone that allows you to do it, even if you don't know it. you can listen with the lights, off the lights, on whatever you think. your call. all right that does it for us tonight, happy halloween, now it's time for the last word with lawrence o'donnell, good evening lawrence. good evening rachel, so you might see on twitter, this picture of the two of us taken at 9:58 pm. when you are putting that thing on your head and i just want you to know, that i did not that i did not send a tweet

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