hi there, everyone. it's 4:00 in new york. whatever the results of next tuesday's midterm elections, there is no denying that these midterm elections are taking place with the very real specter of political violence and the prevalence of disinformation as a political weapon, unmatched in modern political times. large swaths of the gop have been swallowed up completely by the disinformation about the integrity of our very election systems, and many on the right have normalized conversations around political violence to the point in which polls show it is accepted by many as a useful tool to achieving the right's political aims. now, this says all sorts of things about the weakness of our democracy right now. more importantly, it says a

whole lot of things about the weakness of the gop as a governing party. now, a party interested in governing would be desperate to debate policy and have those debates and win those debates ridded in data and a shared set of facts. there's none of that from today's gop. the most recent policy platform agreed to boy the republican party was simply to be, quote, pro trump. party interested in governing in a democracy would be working like crazy to usher in security. instead, you see republican figures and allies whitewashing the insurrection, spreading conspiracy theories about the attack that hurt nancy pelosi's husband and flirting with russia as it carries out acts of terrorism against our allies in ukraine. why? why might that be? we all have to ask ourselves why a party being confident about its political strength, especially ahead of next tuesday, would be totally hostage to tools best known as

the ones used by the world's autocrats. political violence is used the world over by autocrats to destabilize their populations. it's destabilized democracies too. in our country you need to look no further that the reaction to the horrific attack on paul pelosi, the husband of house speaker nancy pelosi. it's an attack which officials allege was an attempted kidnapping of the house speaker herself just a few days before election day. and in this atmosphere in which threats against lawmakers have been soaring, "the new york times" reports this about the reaction of some republicans to the attack on pelosi. quote, donald trump jr., the former president's son, continues to post jokes about it. dinish desouza accused the sfpd of covering up the facts.

marjorie taylor gree that the same mainstream media democrat activists who questioned former president trump's ties to russia were silencing the new owner of twitter, elon musk. the reason musk deleted a post dlipging to a newspaper that once claimed hillary rodham clinton was dead when she ran for president in 2016. a litany of republicans and conservatives have spread baseless conspiracy theories about the assault and its motives. while many have denounced the violence, others have at the very least tolerated and in some cases cheered a violent attack on the spouse of a political rival. as of this afternoon this camp of republicans either spreading lies about or making light of the attack on paul pelosi includes, but of course it does, the disgraced, twice impeached ex-president himself who on a podcast earlier today suggested without a scrap of evidence that there might be more to the story than what federal and local law

enforcement officials are saying. this camp also includes kari lake. she's running to be the republican governor of arizona, one of the most pivotal battleground states in the country. here is what she had to say about all of this on monday. >> nancy pelosi -- well, she's got protection when he's in d.c. apparently her house doesn't have a lot of protection. >> not clear which is sicker, right? the laughing or the comments. according to the latest reporting, the assailant on the attack on paul pelosi has believed in some of the same conspiracy theorys that kari lake has been peddling for many months. conspiracy theories that are poisoning our democracy. the republican party awash in lies and disinformation is where we start today. nbc news senior reporter benecolins is here. also joining us, former senator

and nbc analyst claire mccaskill is back. frank figliuzzi joins it and charlie sykes is back, editor at large of the bulwark and an msnbc contributor. so i want to put up for all of you what the law enforcement officials on the ground, what the sf d.a., brooke jenkins, said their biggest problem is right now. misinformation. >> i think the main hurdle right now is when we have so many people putting out misinformation, quite frankly, into the public. >> what are the pieces of misinformation that you're worried about or that you've seen surface? >> that mr. pelosi knew this individual before this attack. we have no evidence that suggests that he knew him whatsoever. >> now, ben, fact checking for our viewers is not necessary because they're not consuming disinformation. but the point of this story is that this is what the d.a. is

having to deal with. this is what everyone in public office has become. they are part prosecutors, part investigators, and part right-wing disinformation whack-a-mole. >> basically in the absence of an official narrative in the hours after this attack occurred, the pro-trump internet created a completely different reality that was frankly -- they were writing fan fiction about the most embarrassing thing that could have happened in the pelosi house that night in their eyes for paul pelosi. and for that, that's some sort of gay love plot thing that they invented for themselves. and then when the real narrative came out officially, admitted by david depape, the attacker, the guy who broke into the house, they refused to accept it. they instead said, oh, you know, the sfpd is covering something up. that's what you heard -- you didn't just hear it on truth social, the places that invented those conspiracy theories, you

heard it on fox news. you heard it winked at and alluded to by anchors last night on fox news that things don't add up. they're just asking the question. that's the issue here. and also donald trump today, on the radio, he said basically the same thing. what about the glass -- all these things that i read on 4chan on saturday morning. those are things coming out of people that run the gop, both through their media apparatus and through official party lines. people used -- people keep saying what about steve scalise, and that's true. steve scalise was shot at a congressional softball game. nobody created a secondary story that denied the reality of that happening. nobody gloated about it. nobody -- like barack obama did not laugh at this. there was none of that at the time. we have to be clear about what's happening here. one side is agitating for violence. the violence happens, they deny it's them and then they say even

if it was us, we would have been proud of it anyway. >> that's so profound, ben, what you just said. what happened to steve scalise was heinous and horrific, and that was what everybody said. that is what everybody said. what happened to paul pelosi is hape han heinous and horrific. it's incredible. charlie sykes you build to this conclusion that despite the horrific nature of the attack, it feels like a turning point. explain. >> it does. look, this has been a decade coming when you think about it from sandy hook to pizzagate to covid denialism to charlottesville to the big lie about the election. we have seen this building attack on objective truth as a political weapon. and i do feel it is a turning point because here you have this

horrendous, vicious attack on an 82-year-old man who has had his skull fractured. and rather than everybody taking a deep breath back and saying, okay, maybe we need to sober up, what ben is describing is absolutely our new political reality. they have invented this lulls fiction about some sort of a homosexual tryst. why did they go there? why did they reach into the qanon book that something is going on at nancy pelosi's house. even when we have the confession, even when we have the black and white statements, the recorded statements from the perpetrator, it is not making a difference. the truth cannot catch up with these lies because the lies are so deeply embedded and they are so deeply invested. and the people that ought to be pushing back against them have once again decided they're not going to speak up. so when i say that we're at a turning point, we keep asking what if there's an assassination, what if there's a

terrible act of violence, what will happen then? well, it has happened. what we are seeing is the republican party and members of the right-wing media are utterly unfazed and prepared to go along with it. that strikes me as a dangerous new phase in what has been a series of dangerous new phases for years now. >> frank figliuzzi, this is what politico is reporting about the facts. the fbi in charging documents said officers on the scene secured a roll of tape, white rope, a second hammer, a pair of rubber and cloth gloves and zip ties. they also observed a broken glass door to the back porch. they said the assailant told them he had broken into the house through the glass door using a hammer and surprised pelosi's husband. he said he intended to confront speaker pelosi and to see her wheeled into congress with broken kneecaps, quote, which would show other members of congress that there were

consequences to actions, end quote. >> so let's get this straight. we have a full confession. we have an fbi agent representing the department of justice writing the affidavit containing the full confession. we have the united states attorney's office representing our department of justice saying we're prosecuting this person for title 18, section 115, assault on an immediate family member of a federal official and we're adding, because he was so kind to confess to us, we're adding a separate charge of kidnapping. and what is the response? as ben said, within minutes if not seconds, complete inability to accept what our institutions are telling us. san francisco pd, district attorney in a major city in america. no, don't believe them. what does that tell me? a couple of things. first, the trump/maga strategy of completely eroding our trust in our institutions has

succeeded. we no longer believe what happens in court. i'll predict now if he gets convicted by a jury of american citizens, this attacker, they won't accept that either. the jury members will all be members of the deep state. the judge will be part of the plot. the defense attorney representing the attacker will somehow have acquiesced to the plot. that's where we are. secondly, it's reflective that this is a strategy, it's not happenstance. the speed with which the denial of the facts happened across the political spectrum of the far right, media, elected officials and candidates, should tell us what p.t. barnum is credited with saying that a sucker is born every minute. the gop far right needs this to succeed. it's all they have got. they need you to not believe anything. they need you to accept an alternate set of facts, which is called a lie. they need you to be duped, even to the point where you're

willing to spend the rest of your life in prison, as this man will undoubtedly do, as the man who attacked the fbi office in cincinnati, ohio, died in a cornfield because of his being duped. about 900 americans who assaulted the capitol are headed to prison. they count on everyone being able to do that, give up their freedom, give up their rights for a lie. that's all they have left. >> frank, what do we do? it feels like -- i know there's been a lot of focus on what's going to happen on tuesday and that's important and that's good. but i -- right underneath whatever is going to happen is what happens next. and the republican party is running on these strategies brazenly and bravely because it's all they have got. they're not running on fixing inflation. they're not running on addressing crime. they're running on making that final turn toward what you said. what do we do about that? >> i don't see a short-term

solution here. yes, of course we need to vote for democracy, as many people are saying. yes, you should be a single issue voter. your single issue should be democracy. yes, indeed. but i have to tell you, i am not confident that in the short term we're going to get through it quickly. this is a long-term vision of fighting and battling disinformation, teaching kids how to be more savvy consumers. this is a long-term challenge, nicolle. we're not going to get over this on the short term. >> we have on our side two republicans, claire mccaskill. let me show you what they have to say. this is liz cheney and adam kinzinger. >> paul pelosi was in icu, had been brutally attacked, had a skull fracture and numerous other injuries. that there were members of my party mocking him, that there were members of president trump's family mocking him,

that's not who we are in this country. and that is disgraceful and as americans we have to reject it. we have to be willing to say we can have disagreements, we can have debates, we can have intense debates, but violence cannot ever be part of our discourse. >> what i'd like to see is just some semblance of humanity. i'd like to see every republican candidate and elected official say that you condemn this attack. that's really basic. just say you condemn the attack. but secondarily, recognizing the fact that when you convince people that an election was stolen, when you convince people that there are lizard people that drink baby's blood, i'm not even joking, that's actually what a lot of folks believe, eventually you're going to find

somebody that acts on that. i want to make it clear too, by the way, liz and i are not courageous. there's no strength in this. we're just surrounded by cowards. in complete contrast to cowardism, it looks like courage when it's just your bare duty. >> claire, it's incredible that he said that out loud. i actually think that might be one of the braver sort of acknowledgements. that the republican party has slipped so far underneath the bar of what is normal and what is civilized and what is in his words semblance of humanity, that, you know, they won all sorts of awards for upholding democracy. but in kinsinger's own telling, he's only doing his job. >> it wasn't that long ago when we had a republican candidate for president, where there was a town hall and a woman said, well, you know barack obama is a muslim. and that republican candidate right there in realtime said,

no, ma'am, no. that's not correct. no. he and i may not agree on things, but he is a good man who loves his family and loves his country. he's american. that was a republican candidate for president. and i think all of us remember that moment because it was reassuring that we could really disagree on stuff but we weren't going to go there. and now that's where the party of the republicans lives. they live in that really slimy little dark corner where all they want to do is lie, all they want to do is appeal to grievance to the worst common denominator. and let's talk just for a minute about the blue line. how about this, how about the republican candidates for office, i'm not asking you to do what liz cheney and adam kinzinger just did. why don't you just say you support the police officers who

wrestled this man to the ground at their own risk, who went in and interrogated him and gave him his miranda rights and took his confession. how about just saying you believe them? how about just standing up for the police in this moment and the fbi? you don't have to say nancy pelosi is a good person. you can still call her a villain. how about just standing up for the police? because what they're doing is they're telling all of these republicans that you can't trust the people who answer 911 calls when you're in trouble. and that's disgusting. >> well, ben, i'm going to ask you to tell us if you're seeing any of that. i follow your reporting on this. it's pretty clear that on the right and not even too far on the right and not even too deep on the dark internet, that is not part of the conversation at all. where has this sort of gone? >> yeah, the myth here, which is

like a weekly world news style bat boy level myth about that, that they created over the weekend, that myth has won out. it doesn't really matter. there is no document, there is no security camera footage, there is nothing that will satiate them because the myth is more important than the truth. you know, being right about your preconceived notions about what every democrat is secretly doing in this cabal is more important. and i do want to say this is years in the making. people like steve bannon and peter thiel, republican mega donors -- pro trump mega donors spent years trying to create a parallel internet infrastructure. initially there was going to be a physical infrastructure in the ground. but then they realized they couldn't do that so they started building all of these other networks. the goal was to balkanize the internet. to make it so eventually -- there was no dominant platform and everyone was a little

confused about where to go. there was truth social and parler and gab and 4chan and telegram. and then their biggest dream came true. one of theirs bought one of the big ones. elon musk bought twitter. and within a few hours started posting the big lie that they were pushing that weekend. the week before midterms. you know, really quite literally a dream come true in the bannon sphere because their goal was to break down the internet. their goal was to break down reality and make it so nobody even knew it was true. they never in their wildest dreams thought the richest man in the world would jump on their cause and buy one of the platforms so they could share one of their lies for themselves. >> ben, that is the second most profound thing you've said in this hour. as you're talking, i'm just thinking that was the vision with fox news, to balkanize cable news consumption.

is the mission on the internet complete or is it just beginning? >> oh, it's just beginning. now they have like the firepower and the ammo they never had before, right? they have red pilled the richest man in the world. they have him at their whim. he's a fan of ron desantis. he says he's not a fan of donald trump. i'm not sure you would get that vibe from him. maybe he views him as competition or something. but this is the beginning of a very different era in how people consume media. kids didn't necessarily consume media in a relatively linear way. they had balkanized themselves. they get stuff in tiktok and twitter. twitter to them was like cable. twitter was one of the old things that's been around. they view this as a generational challenge and have since the beginning. they take this from white supremacist groups from back in the '90s that have mastered this art of breaking things down and then building things back up over the course of several generations to try to get your

way politically over time. this is where they're coming from. this is a 20, 30-year plan. they got a massive boost in year like ten here. we are in the beginning or the middle of something. >> really, really ominous and powerful words from all of you. thank you so much. ben collins and frank figliuzzi, thank you for starting us off. claire and charlie stick around. when we come back, outgoing republican member of congress liz cheney with another big endorsement of a democratic candidate this afternoon making good on her promise that she won't back anyone that supports the ex-president and is unfounded claims about the 2020 election. the congresswoman announcing her support for tim ryan. he's locked in a tight race in the ohio senate race with one of those republicans, j.d. vance. plus january 6 was not as spontaneous as many on the right would like us to believe. in fact, doj is now expanding its criminal investigation into

1/6 and into the right-wing militia group the proud boys all the way back to 2018 and the specific protest in florida that might have been a dry run for the capitol insurrection. we'll bring you that reporting coming up in the show. and later, someone we talk about a whole lot on this program, a firsthand witness to the january 6 insurrection, former metropolitan d.c. officer michael fanone will be our guest. he's making sure the events from that day are not forgotten and everyone and anyone who had a hand in what happened is somehow held accountable. all those stories and more when "deadline white house" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere today. after a quick break. don't go anywhere today. it's an owl-cat-bat. some things leave you guessing. (meow) but not mailchimp. mailchimp takes the guesswork out of email marketing by analyzing millions of data points from the billions of emails we send to offer personalized suggestions for how to improve engagement and revenue. guess less and sell more

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so who do you prefer in this race? >> i would not vote for j.d. vance. >> so if you were a buckeye state voter, you'd be voting for tim ryan? >> i would. >> are there other democrats you might endorse between now and next tuesday? >> possibly, judy. i endorsed one just now, five minutes ago. >> that was congresswoman liz cheney, a republican, with an expressly pro democracy platform. she is a voice of sanity in the republican party in the age of donald trump. she added another name to her list of democratic candidates she is endorsing, democratic candidate tim ryan. he's running for the u.s. senate in ohio against trump-backed

j.d. vance. we're back with claire and charlie. charlie, i feel like you've written more poetic things about j.d. vance than i could pull out in my little stewing way. you tell me what you think of this endorsement. i'm glad to hear it. i think it's a little late. j.d. vance has been j.d. vance since the beginning. >> j.d. vance is a shape-shifting charlatan, but he would be a reliable vote for the maga agenda. but it really is extraordinary when you think about what liz cheney is doing here, because this is a very conservative republican. this is somebody that probably voted very rarely on the same side of most policy issues with tim ryan, and yet she understands that this really comes down to the issue of democracy, whether or not you are going to go along with someone like j.d. vance out of party loyalty, or whether or not she's willing to burn whatever is left of her gop membership card by endorsing tim ryan.

so i know there are a lot of people who are still like, well, liz cheney is still a republican, she's still a conservative, she still has all of those votes and that's all true. but this is an indication that she -- what it means to think that we face an existential threat to democracy. this is what it means when you understand how central the fight for democracy is, that she would be willing to put aside all of those policy differences to say i'm not going along with donald trump's pick for senate, j.d. vance. good for her. >> charlie, i view it slightly differently. i think if you're liz cheney and you worked in the bush administration and you backed and supported and to this day support the wars in iraq and afghanistan because you believe in your bones and your cells in democracy, you had no choice. and i actually think she's done a lot. i think she should do more. i think she should go farther. this isn't about having a conservative record in the house of representatives.

if you believe what liz cheney believes, and we have no reason to doubt anything she has said, then there is no choice but to confronting the threats to democracy in america with the same tools and the same vigor with which she believed we should be spreading democracy in far-away places. what does that effort look like? >> i think that's what she's been doing with the january 6th committee. but old habits die slowly. and for liz cheney to be endorsing democratic candidates for congress, democratic candidates for senate, when the balance of power is on a knife's edge is really something. and i think that it's probably not easy for her, but i think she's probably all out of bleeps to give when it comes to partisan loyalty. but yes, absolutely. it's not just j.d. vance's maga shape shifting. he's the guy who said i frankly

don't care what happens to ukraine. he would not be supporting that foreign policy. and for liz cheney and i think other americans who believe the role we play in the world, that ought to be a deal breaker. >> j.d. vance in public and private, claire, is all in with russia's ability to spread propaganda. there's some investigative reporting in "the new york times" today about rumble. rumble has become a leading destination for conservative content by positioning itself as a platform for unfetterred speech, an alternative to the content moderation or censorship to many of the right but facebook and twitter. last year rumble received a major investment from a firm co-founded by j.d. vance. his more than 7,000 shares place him as one of the company's top ten shareholders. j.d. vance has been a threat to our effort to bolster and back

and strengthen the democracy in the fight between ukraine and russia since the beginning. how do you see these issues playing out? and claire, i know in the past you've been a little skeptical of the impact of a liz cheney endorsement, but ohio is a pretty red state. liz cheney throwing her support behind tim ryan i think could be consequential. >> well, it all depends on which kind of republicans you're talking about. it could be consequential with those who reject donald trump and the lies that he represents. it would be consequential with the republicans that voted for people like rob portman because they thought he believed in the same policies they believed in. i think there's a sliver of the republican party she can influence, and good for her for doing it. and j.d. vance, this rumble thing, i mean we don't -- can't get into the weeds entirely, but it's important for people to understand that peter thiel who

doesn't really have a warm and fuzzy feeling about democracy has put $30 million into both him and the guy out in arizona. and the two of them are big investors in this rumble. and rumble is allowing rt, the propaganda wing, the propaganda arm of putin to live stream on their site, including playing video of americans that were captured and tortured and forced to say things on camera that were lies in furtherance of putin's agenda in ukraine. that's j.d. vance. he thinks that's an okay thing right now. that americans who are tortured are given a platform -- to give a platform to putin, for him to force americans to say under torture to say what he wants them to say. that is not what republicans i

knew in the senate would put up with. they would reject that. >> claire, your former republican colleagues have all backed him. mitch mcconnell's endorsement, we checked before we came on the air, is still behind j.d. advance. how can you support ukraine and support j.d. vance. rob portman i believe has also thrown his weight and support behind j.d. vance. why? >> you know, here's the thing. they're all holding their noses. and this is where liz cheney is different. it's about character and integrity. because she's decided that the country and the constitution are more important than which party has political power. and that's what mitch mcconnell, all he cares about is being leader. and rob portman is being a good soldier and falling in. it's like all of them rushing to the guy who pays for abortions

in georgia. this is all about power, partisan power, not about policies. and not about america. and not about our shared values. forget about our shared values. and that's why liz cheney is an important historical figure because she is really a lonely voice, she and adam kinzinger. you know, there is a point where our country is in such trouble that we've got to put partisan politics aside and focus on what is good for america going forward in terms of holding on to our democracy. >> so important. claire and charlie, we need you to stick around. up next for us, there's some brand-new reporting on this story. the stop the steal protest back in 2018, was it just a dry run for what happened at the u.s. capitol on january 6, 2021? the event had many of the same elements, many of the same cast of characters.

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remember when republicans tried to claim among other things that the deadly january 6th insurrection was totally spontaneous. trump supporters got caught up in the moment? thanks to a brand-new piece of reporting in "the new york times" breaking this afternoon, we now know that the criminal investigation into january 6th

that doj is leading is now investigating whether stop the steal protests in florida in 2018 were essentially a dry run, a rehearsal. they had all the same toxic ingredients. lies about voter fraud, donald trump's incitement and trump's closest friends in congress and allies in those extremist groups like the proud boys. from that brand new "times" reporting, the time was 2018, the setting was southern florida, and the election in question was for governor in a hotly contested race that would help determine control of the u.s. senate. now, four years later, the justice department is examining whether the tactics used then served as a model for the attack on the capitol on january 6, 2021. joining us now the reporter whose byline is on that reporting, mike schmidt. charlie and claire are still with us. mike, tell us what you and your colleagues are reporting. >> look, in 2018, there was something, as you were saying, that sounded and appeared very

similar to what happened on january 6th. we now know that this sprawling investigation that's looking at january 6th is looking at this. they're calling it brooks brothers 2.0, along the line of the brooks brothers riot that happened during the 2000 election. and they are looking and asking questions about roger stone's role in this and the role of a stone associate named jacob ingalls. they're looking at another individual who wrote a memo that was passed on to the head of the proud boys just right before the january 6th insurrection that laid out a plan for taking control of the capitol. so sort of -- it gives you a sense that the january 6th investigation has cast a very large net. so large that it goes back to 2018. and when we looked at the 2018 event, it just -- it had not

only a lot of the hallmarks of 2020, but there was -- you know, rubio was out there raising some of these questions about democrats trying to steal the election. trump was using his twitter account to do that. matt gaetz showed up at the protest to rally the crowd. the crowd was chanting "stop the steal." so, you know, i guess they say history repeats itself, but it really echos. and these two events sort of echo each other. >> so we found some of the sound that you're talking about. let me play that. >> we got some left-weng activists, we've got some democrat d.c. lawyers. they're down here for one purpose, to steal this election. >> i fear, martha, this may be the new strategy of the resistance. they're trying to steal elections that they can't win on election day. >> and all of a sudden they're finding votes out of nowhere, and rick scott, who won by -- you know, it was close but he

won by a comfortable margin. bad things have gone on in broward county, really bad things. although i hear, i don't know, you tell me, it's always the democrats, it's always gps fusion. it's always crooked stuff. >> in fact it was the proud boys. talk about the reappearance of the very same extremist group from 2018 and january 6th. >> the proud boys were openly there. they were obviously openly there on january 6th, obviously, and openly there on the 2018 protests. jacob ingalls, this stone associate, was one of the ringleaders of this saying that he was heading down to broward county to participate in these protests. at one opponent we went back and we learned that during the 2018 protest things got so tense that the crowd was pushing people up against the doors of this building where the votes were being counted. the 2018 incident did not lead

to the violence that happened on january 6th, but it certainly showed a willingness of this group of people to really push the limits and the democratic norms, throwing the democratic norms out the window, to go to these extraordinary measures that show up two years later on the steps of the capitol. >> charlie, in florida two years ago in 2018, the republicans prevailed. we would never know if the violence would have also been on the menu in 2018 if the outcome had been different. what's amazing is that all the -- you read -- you read mike's story with your jaw on the table. roger stone was there, the proud boys was there, matt gaetz was there. donald trump was inciting it. they will keep doing it over and over again. they are not the variable, we are. what did you make when you read this story? >> it's a reminder that so much of what we're discussing has been a long time coming. remember when donald trump even

after he won in 2016 was talking about millions of illegal votes that had been cast. so going back to what ben collins said in the previous segment, we are not seeing the culmination of these trends, we are in the middle, maybe the early stages of what is going to be a new normal here. january 6th was in many ways a dry run for what could happen in the future. many of these players have been signaling what they're prepared to do for a very, very long time. so i think people better buckle up. if you think january 6 was bad, wait until you see what's coming in 2024, 2025. >> that's just so harrowing. mike schmidt, one last question for you. are they investigating participants in 2018 or looking at participants in january 6, 2021, and asking questions about this event as well? is that not clear? >> it's not clear. we know they have cast a wide

net in the january 6th investigation. we know that they're asking about brooks brothers 2.0 as it has been described, that they're asking about someone like jacob ingalls and trying to figure out whether these are building blocks that built on top of each other towards that, like a dry run like you were saying. there's a lot that we can't see into this investigation, but certainly a clue. and it would be the type of fact that even if it was beyond the statute of limitations, that if you were to be making a case against someone to show a pattern of behavior, my guess would be something that prosecutors would certainly want to have and certainly would want to know. >> it seems some of these proud boys have been charged with some of the the most serious charges, seditious conspiracy. so looking back is it a new group of people, is it new charges. thank you for joining us for talk about it. up next for us, senator lindsey graham went to the highest court in the land so

that he wouldn't have to do something, so that he wouldn't have to testify in the georgia 2020 investigation. we'll tell you how that went and whether or not lindsey graham will indeed have to appear in georgia on the ex-president's efforts to overturn the election in georgia by find those 11,000 votes he came up short. more on that story, next. up s hot more on that story, next you could manufacture a whole new way of manufacturing. you could disrupt buying habits before they disrupt your business.

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court rejected senator lindsey graham's request to avoid a grand jury subpoena into an investigation into alleged interference there. prosecutors want to know about phone calls lindsey graham made to georgia election officials. and it is possible graham could still invoke his fifth amendment rights but could face questioning as soon as mid november. claire, let me read you more about what learning. october 20 the court of appeals rejected graham's attempt to answer questions. and graham argued that he made the calls as part of his duties to certify election result and therefore the fulton county subpoena infringes on the clause which protects lawmakers from investigations. what is he running up against in

that he's lost even in the supreme court? >> well, he is done. he is going to have to testify under oath. he has two choices now. he can either say i refuse to answer on the grounds that what i say might make me a criminal and put me in jail, i don't want to incriminate myself, or he has to testify. and he has to raise his hand and swear that he is going to tell the truth and if he doesn't tell the truth, he can be prosecuted for perjury. so he is going to have to explain exactly what the world a united states senator from north carolina -- from south carolina was doing calling another state trying to enter seen in their election authorities in an election that he was not even a part of. and i think that it will be difficult for him to explain that and i think that it is very relevant to their investigation as to what trump tried to do in

georgia after he tried to fraudulently claim georgia. >> and what i always go to is georgia wouldn't have been enough. so we know everything that we know about georgia because raffensperger taped the cause and ruby sherman came forward and testified as to what the lies told there did to their lives. and what else do we not know about trump's effort to steal the 2020 election? >> well, that is an interesting question. and the senator raises a strange point, what was lindsey graham doing interfering in georgia's election. he is not from georgia. why was he making that phone call. what was -- you know, what possible official duty could he have been engaging in. so i think what the real contribution of the january 6 committee has been is to point out how concerted an effort this was on so many different levels and how many members of the

republican party elected officials in one way or another became part of this. not even to say complicit, but active participants in an attempt to overturn a free and fair election including united states senators and folks who were trafficking in fake electors. so your question is really interesting. and i do think that we're getting closer and closer to finding out, you know, how serious this assault was and how many people are going to have to explain their role in it. >> you know, to charlie's point, mike's reporting is interesting because it suggests that the most opaque part of all this, which is doj's criminal investigation into 1/6, is not wide ranging. it seems that it is. it is deep and they are asking questions about some of the same players in 2018. do you think that they would want to talk to and understand what you just articulated, what

was lindsey graham doing on the phone with georgia say the election officials? >> it is interesting because it appears to me that they have left the georgia situation to georgia. and of course we didn't know what they are doing, but it appears to me they have been more focused on the fake electors and more focused on who actually was behind the scenes trying to make violence happen on j-6, who was it. what happened in the willard hotel. and what was the real communication between the white house and the willard hotel and the proud boys and the oathkeepers that were marching with guns towards united states capitol to assault capitol police officers and look for mike pence and do harm. so that is what it looks like from the outside looking in and georgia got busy, unlike what they are doing in california

where they are trying to replicate or partner in charges in california to paul pelosi's assailant, it looks like in georgia theyare letting georgia do georgia. >> your contributions are always so important and you both blow my mind. thank you for spending the hour with us. up next for us, something we're so excited about. officer michael fanone will be our guest. don't go anywhere. r guest. don't go anywhere. biktarvy is a complete, one-pill, once-a-day treatment used for h-i-v in certain adults. it's not a cure, but with one small pill, biktarvy fights h-i-v to help you get to and stay undetectable. that's when the amount of virus is so low it cannot be measured by a lab test. research shows people who take h-i-v treatment every day and get to and stay undetectable can no longer transmit h-i-v through sex. serious side effects can occur, including kidney problems and kidney failure.

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hi again. it is 5:00 in new york. radio traffic like that, and i know it is hard to listen to, but it was so brutal and alarming the transmissions that officers at the capitol on january 6, 2021 were making and hearing that our next guest heard that. and that is what made him rush to the united states capitol to help his fellow officers in need. and by now you know the story of former metropolitan officer michael fanone, who joined the

fight against the insurrections, a fight that he describes as the most brutal savage of his life and career. and rioters beat him, they tased him, one even screamed kill him with his own gun. fanone luckily thankfully survived the insurrection. he has been outspoken about his recovery, the physical and mental aspects of it since that day. fanone became a witness in the january 6 select committee's investigation into the insurrection and had this powerful moment calling out republicans who are trying to white wash the attack on our nation's capitol. >> the indifference shown to my colleagues is disgraceful. my law enforcement career prepared me to cope with some of the aspects of this experience. being an officer you know your life is at risk whenever you walk out the door. even if you don't expect

otherwise law abiding citizens to take up arms against you. but nothing, truly nothing, has prepared me to address those elected members of our government who continue to deny the events of that day. and in doing so, be tray their oath of office. >> fanone has worked tirelessly around the clock to make sure the events of that day are not forgotten or whitewashed. he believes it is a continuation of his service to hold everyone involved to account. in his brand new book "hold the line" he provides his perspective of that day and reckons with a political party that denies the horrors of what he went through and an ex-president that incited the riot. and he says the rule of la should mean something. if there is probable cause to believe trump committed crimes, and by now there is little doubt

he should be charged arrested and tried. if convicted trump should go to prison for the rest of his life. he directed and unleashed an attack on american democracy and destroyed countless police officers' lives. people may say i'm birth but i don't give an f. i'm angry. i love my country. and i want justice. it is a battle for truth and for the rule of law. fanone and the country are still waging. in his new book he describes this emotional moment when he returned with his daughters to the u.s. capitol in november of 2021 he writes when we reached the bottom of the of stairs, i kneeled to eye level with the girls and i nodded toward the tunnel. piper and hensley shuffled forward into the tunnel. and my friend pulled back to give us a moment. at the end of the tunnel the girls pressed their faces to the locked glass doors and looked

out across the national mall. in the growing darkness we could seat blinking red lights of the washington monument in the distance. we didn't say a word. we just hugged. that is where we begin this hour with michael fanone, author of the new book "hold the line." and one cop's battle for america's soul. it is so nice to get to talk to you. i don't know if you know this, we play anything you say anywhere in another network's interview, as part of the 1/6 testimony, so our viewers are very familiar with you, but we've never had a chance to talk to you, so thank you for being here. >> i appreciate you take position the time to have me on. >> how are you doing? >> i'm hanging in there. >> i was going to ask you, i talked to a member of the 1/6 committee staff about having you guys in the room and i said how

focusing was that for all of you to see them there, the people that have protected everyone and to understand at every moment what you were doing it for. and he said it was just that, it was focusing. but i wanted to ask what that was like for you. >> testifying before the select committee? >> that, and being there for all the public hearings. >> i mean, listen, testifying was like any other courtroom testimony for me. i mean, i think maybe i was a little bit more impassioned in my delivery, but other than that, i mean, it was just another day in court. going to the hearings, i don't know if it was necessarily the best thing for me or my personal health, but i felt like it was an obligation that i had taken up and i wanted to show support

for the members of the select committee who have made some pretty great personal sacrifices to investigate what happened on january 6 and the events leading up to it. >> is it surreal -- i've played that testimony a few times. enduring what you endured physically and psychologically in the moments of the attack feels like the first injury. the second is the denial on the part of the republicans, the refusal to award medals to the men and will of law enforcement who protected everyone who worked in the capitol. you can take us back to the moment when you realized that this attack wasn't going to break the fever, that the right was not going to acknowledge the reality of 1/6? >> i think for me it was -- and i forget the day exactly, but it was when andrew clyde, the congressman, testified that

january 6 was just another tourist day. i remember that testimony vividly and i remember the phone calls that i received from dozens of other police officers that were there at the capitol on january 6 and how outraged they were. so that was the moment for me that i realized this is not going to be an off-ramp for republicans to, you know, get rid of donald trump once and for all, that they are going to double down and it will be a long brutal fight. >> when you hear the things that kevin mccarthy said privately, and i know you met with him privately and i know you write about that, and some of the tapes came out with the publication of your book, when you hear him able to acknowledge the reality that you lived and we saw with our own eyes privately, what do you make of what he's done publicly, which is to elevate the insurrectionists, to kowtow to

marjorie taylor greene, do nothing to mr. cried lit and co and others who are white washing oig it to this day? >> i think kevin mccarthy only cares about kevin mccarthy and his own political future and he sees the best vehicle for his success as being the republican party and it success. and so he will do anything and everything to ensure that the republican party gains power and so he can eventually hold the gavel and be the speaker. >> you are inside -- and i think your book reflects that you see this way -- the bigger fight over truth and lies. that the lies about january 6 at least on the right are winning. how do we hang to the truth? do you see like a 1/6 memorial

or a museum where all of the firsthand accounts and all of the testimony from yourself and officer dunn or where the truth can live, are you worried that as get farther away from it, the whitewashing prevails? >> i think those things are all appropriate. obviously i'vebeen advocating for the officers, i think that they deserve to have a medal pinned on their chest. i think that there should be a memorial at the capitol representing the metropolitan police officers and u.s. capitol police officers that fought to defend it. that being said, i don't want anything. only thing that i want is accountability. i want people going to prison who broke the law. you can save your medals and your plaques and all that other garbage. i don't need it. i just want to see people go to prison. >> the january 6 committee

unloaded a mountain of evidence against president trump who invited extremists to washington as early as december 19th on twitter. they got 'em. what do you think is an appropriate -- what does accountability look like for donald trump? >> i mean, i believe that the evidence put forth by the select committee shows that donald trump engaged in an effort to defraud the american people and that as a result of that effort, we saw the violence that ensued on january 6. there is certainly plenty of evidence to support that, to support an indictment against donald trump and to have him be tried. and i think that as americans, we should accept the results of that trial. >> i mean, you lived firsthand what what happens when americans don't accept what they see with

their own eyes. do you think americans will or is that besides the point? >> to be honest but, i think most americans are indifferent to what happened on january 6. i mean, obviously there is a small amount of americans, i count myself as one of them that are incredibly passionate about what happened and see the urgency in the threat to our democracy. by the same token i think there is equally as many americans that believe that january 6 was, you know, another 1776 moment in american history. and they support those that attacked the capitol that day. and those include the former president. these two factions in america i believe are at war. and the rest of americans just don't care. they are more concerned about their own personal lives, they don't see what happened that day

as affecting them directly. they are more concerned about how much they have got to pay at the pump or how much groceries cost. >> i worked in politics and i've learned not to blame the voters but the people making the arguments in front of the voters. but i agree with your assessment. how do you make them care? political violence reached the home of speaker pelosi, her husband was brutally attacked and had surgery to repair a skull fracture. your physical injuries are horrific and all you did was go to work on 1/6 and rush to the defense of your fellow brothers in law enforcement. how do you make people see what is really happening? >> i don't think that you can make people care about january 6. we're almost 19 months out. i've worn camera footage so people could see the brutality

of what happened to me and understand what the experience was like for so many other police officers. it wasn't just me up there that day, there were hundreds of us. and we were all beaten brutally. over 140 police officers were injured. that being said, i've been out here running my mouth for almost two years and it has not made very much of a difference. we're coming up on the midterm elections and i think i've seen both parties back away from the january 6 insurrection because they don't see it as a pathway to power. and that in and of itself is -- i mean, disappointing to say the least. i think the only thing that we can do is hold those accountable that were criminally responsible for that day. >> you just testified in a trial

for mr. head, albuquerque head, and this is what judge amy berman jackson said, head's actions were some of the darkest acts commit order one of the nation's darkest occasions. and she talked about all the opportunities he had to remove himself but instead rearmed and went back to the front line. jackson described fanone as head's prey and his trophy and fanone as someone who was protecting america during the riot. i read that because it is in black and white in front of all of us. and to your point the people who think that they were there at the direction of their leader donald trump have either been charged or sentenced as mr. head was. do you have any optimism that the prosecutions will deter future insurrections or do you think that this will become the new normal in american elections

that don't go the way of the right? >> well, first of all, i'd say it is the new normal. it is not becoming the new normal. it has been the normal now for quite some time. i think it isdeterring from those from going to prison. but this is different of what i would describe as more traditional crimes. it is not narcotics trafficking, it is not robbery. these are politically motivated crimes. and there is no shortage of americans who are susceptible to this type of manipulation especially when people like donald trump and his allies continue to spout the same lies and violent rhetoric. >> officer fanone, do you think in our lifetimes we'll see the fever break? do you think that this is the

new normal on the right and that it can't be broken? do you think liz cheney and adam kinzinger could ever prevail or reemerge in their party? what do you see on the political horizon for our country? >> i think it is going to get a whole lot worse before it gets any better. i mean, i think that it will take something dramatic to where it touches all americans' lives. i mean, we've seen some of that with the deterioration of individual rights in this country. but i'm still wondering where the outrage is from a lot of members including members of the democratic party. you know, president biden has been incredibly disappointing to me in that he only had a handful of speeches where he addressed the maga republicans as he refers to them until after he had accomplished his legislative, you know, agenda and felt like he didn't need

republicans anymore. and so then he went out and attacked. and then in addition to that, we saw democrats prop up some of the fringe election-denying candidates and oust good republicans like peter meyer who happens to be a friend of mine. i mean, that is -- you know, i don't know when these people are going to wake up and recognize that the threat is at our doorstep. i don't know what it will take. >> let me ask you to stay with us, i want to bring somebody into our conversation, congressman eric swalwell. what do you say to officer fanone's critique of even some democrats including the president? >> well, first, every day i say thank you to officer fanone for what he did on january 6. second, he stood me up yesterday. we were supposed to grab a beer.

he had to end up being with his kids for halloween. we'll reschedule that for tomorrow. but you owe me a beer. but i don't think that we can talk about this enough because it is the difference between community and chaos. and i just hate to see anyone run away from what it would look like to turn the keys of government over to republicans. and, yes, inflation is important. we are working that problem. they are just pandering to grievances working for their own power, but if they have the keys to government, the government will shut down within the first six months. we won't pay our bills and the debt ceiling will not be extended. we'll stop funding ukraine and zelenskyy will fail and russia will keep moving to the west. and by the way we'll see a complete breakdown of law and order because we've been the ones who have funded the police. we have held up the january 6

officers. i'm not kidding when i say if kevin mccarthy is the speaker of the house, congressional a gold medal will be awarded to some of the terrorists on january 6. that is the direction that they would take this country. >> i agree with you, but to the point officer fanone made, why didn't you take that message to the country? i mean, they are running as friends and a allies of domestic terrorists. that is what ted cruz and chris wray called the insurrections. and jd vance has sent them money. donald trump doing vigils for them. why don't you take a message to the country not between right and left, but -- by the way, they don't care about inflation, they just care about beating you. why didn't you take the message to the whole country? >> i'm taking that message obviously. and i've made massive investments for my campaign on behalf of others in digital ads and actually just ads in districts talking about chaos versus community. but i do think as a party this

is not just about -- it is about political violence and the rhetoric that leads to violence. but they will bring casss on in every way. they talked about the economy that they would do better with the can economy. the economy will collapse if the government shuts down. they talk about funding the police. they voted against funding the police. and by the way, it is red states that host more murder capitals in the united states than blue states. and also as i pointed out earlier on ukraine, if you want to talk about law and order and morality in the world, if ukraine falls, this will come to our doorstep. and so that is why i think the broader frame is chaos versus competency, violence versus voting, fascism versus success facts. maybe i need to do a better job of convincing my colleagues that this resonates with voters because everything else is affected if you have chaos

running washington. >> and i'll ask you to stick around through a quick break and we'll come back on the other side. we have news to tell you about, mother of an officer who died as a result of the capitol has some harsh words for election deniers running for office today. we'll play you her tough new message next. plus republicans are trying to form a key battleground state into their laboratory. and tragically they are succeeding if it continues. we'll explain. and much of kyiv has been without power and water after another round of russian missile strikes there. we'll check in with our dear friend on how he is doing and the city is coping. s doing and the city is coping my husband and i have never been more active. shingles doesn't care. i go to spin classes with my coworkers. good for you, shingles doesn't care.

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i'm gladys sicknick, mother of brian sicknick who died defending our country. kari lake is very dangerous for our country. she saw what happened on january 6 and continues to spread the big lie. and we're going to have more violence because people believe whatever she says. it is very dire for our democracy, for our country with candidates like kari lake. my son died because of people like kari lake. >> this is a new ad put out by the republican accountability project and will air starting

tomorrow underscoring the dangerous consequences still today and tomorrow and the next day of the big lie. and drawing a direct link between those false claims of voter fraud and what we're seeing now more and more, political violence. we're back with michael fanone and congressman eric swalwell. michael, is that hard to watch? i know these are people that we've come to admire and we follow their stories, but these are your friends and colleagues. >> yeah, no, mine i've gotten to know mrs. sicknick pretty well and i thought that was a powerful ad. she is out there i think trying to do what all of us are trying to do here, which is bring accountability for january 6. and, you know, i also support the fact that kari lake's a piece of [ bleep ] so i'm glad she did that ad. >> a no one won't say you haven't put it all out on the line.

congressman, i didn't mean to suggest that you haven't either. i guess the larger critique is you look at where midterms defy history and it is when there is a real question about our security at home in 2002, and i think that there is a real case to be made as gladys sicknick is making is that the lie endangers the homeland as gravely as anyone ever did after september 11th. some were found guilty of wanting to threaten or kill you. what do you make of those tools that republicans are relying on, political violence and adherence to the big lie? >> that is why it does resonate with everyday americans in all communities when you can connect the dots of violent political rhetoric, when ted cruz's facebook page and marjorie taylor greene's instagram page

and boebert twitter feed looks just like the feeds of these violent' asassailants, somethin is wrong. and january 6 the way i look at it was a centralized attack on our democracy. the attack against paul pelosi and others like gretchen whitmer, these are d decentralized. and so people have to realize that it is coming to your community and your pta meetings. and unless we bring down the temperature, unless we bring community over chaos, it will affect every city in america. >> republicans are running on crime and as the party that stands up for law enforcement. every time you hear trump or his allies make those claims on the campaign trail, what do you think? >> obviously he know that that

is not the case. political parties don't represent or stand for law enforcement. individuals do. and it is clear to me that donald trump is not a representative of law and order of anything. he has never been one to adhere to the laws of this country even long before he became president of the united states. he does his best to subvert them whether it is through high paid lawyers or other means at his disposal, that is what he has always been about. and as a police officer, you know, there is no one -- or nothing that could be more opposite from my standpoint. >> congressman, we talked abos and how shallow though are, and

the attacks on democrats over crime are just as hallow if you listen to officer fanone. what is in your view? because i think a lot of democrats view you as a skilled messenger, probably why you are the target of a lot of threats from the right. what is in your view the best clap back to their ludicrous and hypocriical claims? >> and having bakersfield in his district, it is the heart of his district and then pointing out all the votes where they voted against law enforcement. and showing at the end of the day they don't back the blue, they back the coup. and so we have to push back every single time they try to blur the reality for the voters. and that also is the case of inflation. again, we're working this problem. it is a real issue. but we have put up anti-price

gouging legislation. we have worked bring baby formula to america to solve that crisis. we worked to expand petroleum reserves so we can bring down the cost of gasoline. we've worked with our allies to try to bring in more of an energy supply. we're working the problem and they have voted against every single solution we brought forward. so one party is trying to get things done or trying to get another word done that i'll let mike fanone say and the other party is just trying to make a mess of things. and i think that has to content with the voter because they don't have a plan, they just have chaos. >> and one story that i covered i believe with congressman swalwell at the time was when republicans refused to award medals to the law enforcement individuals who protected them that day. and i've watched all the footage of january 6 and republicans are running as fast as democrats and republicans were hiding in the

same room as nancy pelosi and chuck schumer. what do you make of the personal treatment from republicans that you used to see every day? or you probably didn't because you weren't at the capitol, but capitol police officers saw them every day. why can't you guys be heros in the view of the modern republican party, why are yous and you laura ingraham says crisis actors, why can't you exist as people with your bodies and your lives protected their lives from donald trump supporters? >> i mean, the word is inconvenience. we are an inconvenient truth to the republican party. we are american police officers whom they claim to support and we were talked by trump supporters, republicans. we were beaten, assaulted, and

some lost their lives as a result of their participation in the defense of the capitol that day. and that doesn't fit with their narratives. and so rather than acknowledge the heroism and kind of, you know, swallow their pride and bite the bullet, they would rather demonize us, vilify us, cast us out as, you know, democrats and separate us from the greater law enforcement community in this country that is still very much supportive of donald trump and the republican party. >> michael's new book is called "hold the line." and it is out now. it is really, really important. read it. congressman and michael, go get your beer, whatever you all do. thank you for spending some time with us today. >> thank you. and when we come back, how

republicans are systemically taking apart democracy. we've been talking about it all day today. this time we'll focus in on the battleground state of wisconsin. new reporting showing that they are making the state's elections voter-proof in an effort that will make the next plot to overturn a presidential election that much easier. the reporter behind that alarming new story will join us. . was a great decision. like when i decided to host family movie nights. miracle-ear made it easy. i just booked an appointment and a certified hearing care professional evaluated my hearing loss and helped me find the right device calibrated to my unique hearing needs. now i enjoy every moment. the quiet ones and the loud ones. make a sound decision. call 1-800 miracle now, and book your free hearing evaluation. there's a different way to treat hiv. it's every-other-month, injectable cabenuva. for adults who are undetectable, cabenuva is the only complete, long-acting hiv treatment you can get every other month.

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. you've got republicans in the wisconsin state legislature trying to give themselves power do whatever they want. here in wisconsin already the map is so gerrymandered, they only have to win 44% of the vote to get a majority of the assembly. think about that. think about any other thing you do in life where 44% are on one side, 56% are on the other and 44% wins. it don't make sense. that is correct. and if they pick up a few more seats in both chambers, they will be able to force through extreme and unpopular laws on everything from guns to education, to abortion, and there won't be anything that democrats can do about it. >> that was former president barack obama campaigning in milwaukee are democrats are pulling out all the stops to try to ensure victory in the midterm

elections. and as democrats focus on wisconsin, ari berman writes the state has become the gop central laboratory in their attempts to dismantle democracy. this one of the most gerrymandered states in the country, democrats have huge hurdles to clear after republicans redrew the maps last year. in the state's assembly, number of republican leaning seats has increased to 63 of the 99 seats. and 23 out of the 33 seats in the state senate. meaning republicans as you heard from president obama could garner majority with just 44% of the statewide vote. joining us now is that aforementioned author. and your reporting lays it out. take me through how this works. >> thanks so much for having me back on the show, nicolle.

obama was citing a statistic from my article that said that democrats have to win the statewide vote in wisconsin by 12 points just to get a majority in the legislature. but republicans can get a majority with just 44% of the votes. which is absolutely crazy. you have a situation where democrats have to win an absolute unthinkable landslide in wisconsin just to try to get a majority in the legislature where republican control is guaranteed even if they get viewer votes. so basically the reason why i'm writing about wisconsin is because wisconsin is a case study for how democracy is being eroded in real time and how democratic rights can be taken away. they want to go a lot further in terms of subverting democracy but they have already done a lot to this day to already subvert democracy. because of gerrymandering, voter suppression and other things. >> i want to read what you write about how this helps the big lie

caucus, if you will, in 2024 because you lay that out too. you write the gop appears eager to rest control away from the bipartisan commission and give the power to the gerrymandering legislature which could choose the electors instead of the voters. and that nightmare scenario is now dangerously close to thinking a reality. wisconsin republicans are laying the ground work to potentially overthrow the election in 024 through more sophisticated and ostensibly legal means. what has happened in the country and i think we first got to know you right after november, right after the big lie seemed to just put into overdrive all these things that everybody knew was predicated on a lie. i mean, everybody in november knew that the lie was a lie including donald trump. and we sort of descended down

the rabbit hole where people are actually backing policies predicated on something that even rudy giuliani knew was bs. what does it mean for 2024 and is wisconsin the only place that has made it easier to overflow the will of the voters? >> no, the overwhelming project of the republican party has been to try to institutionalize the insurrection through other means. so that instead of trying to overturn the election after the fact, they will have the peoples and the law in place to try to do it through more ostensibly legal means in places like wisconsin, that means overthrowing the bipartisan election commission and giving that people to the gerrymandered legislature so they can thwart the will of the people. in other states that is why you have election deniers running for positions like secretary of state, like attorney general, like governor. but that is who certifies the elections. that is who runs the elections. so they want to put all these

things in place so that they can make sure who succeeds the next time. and you already have institutions that virtually have no accountability like wisconsin. and they want to take the power so that they can control not just their own body but the politics of the entire state. and what is happening in wisconsin and arizona and nevada, it affects nationally as well, flight people always ask why should we pay attention to wisconsin. because what happens in wisconsin is going to faebt everything nationally. if they can steal an election there, that could be the tipping point in terms of choosing the next president in 2024. >> and they didn't just push one voter suppression law, they pushed 468 in 48 states. and vast majority of them wound their way through legislatures and won. i saw the president's speeches. everyone did. has it been an issue on the campaign trail in democratic campaigns in these states? >> yeah, i think that it was really great that obama talked

about gerrymandering and talked about the impact of state level races because it is getting overlooked a little bit with some of the other contests. and i think it was important that obama drew a connection between the erosion of democracy and the erosion of all other rights. democracy is not an abstract thing. the ren why wisconsin doesn't have medicaid expansion or reason able background checks on guns or the reason it has an 1849 criminal abortion ban because democracy has been eroded at the state level. what obama is saying, that affects all other rights. so it is not like you care about democracy you don't care about the economy or abortion or crime. if you don't have a functioning democracy, you can't solve all these other problems. i'd love for democrats to make that case more broadly because i think that it is getting lost in all the noise right now and obama is making a sharp case for why democracy connects to everything else. >> as he always does. and you're right, he was making sort of the clearest and the most direct tie between all

those things. ari berman, thank you for the reporting and being here to talk about it. shifting gears for us to the war in ukraine, where new russian attacks have knocked out power and water to the city and people of kyiv. we'll get a chance to check in with our friend igor and how his family and people in the city are getting by. eople in the cit are getting by ♪ well, the stock is bubbling in the pot ♪ ♪ just till they taste what we've got ♪ [ tires squeal, crash ] when owning a small business gets real, progressive gets you right back to living the dream.

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attacks on civilian infrastructure and centers all over ukraine. citizens of kyiv were subjected to dozens of missiles. and while water services have been restored, rolling blackouts continue as city officials ration services to conserve the power amid repeated attacks from russia. joining us now, former adviser to president zelenskyy now beloved guest of this program. igor, tell us what is happening and how you are doing. >> i'm doing well as you can see, i'm one of the free luckyog wood, because i have a diesel generator, a star link. for me, i only feel the effects of what's happening when i go to the city. but the situation is quite bad, and let me paint the picture for the viewers. look around wherever you are at home or in the office or in the

hotel room and just imagine that you have no electricity, you have no internet, no cell reception, no running water, the elevators don't work. and things are only going to get worse. and that's the situation at the moment. the most worrying bit of news -- i spoke with the kyiv regional governor today, and he told me that if we experience far too many strikes within the coming weeks, they're considering actually announcing an evacuation of kyiv and kyiv region. >> igor, russia lashes out at civilians. they have the whole time. but it usually correlates with defeats or humiliations on the battlefield or at home. is that the situation here? what is behind this escalation from putin? >> well, i think his main objective is to intimidate people into submission. long story short, he couldn't

kill us with missiles, couldn't kill us with bullets, effectively, in the beginning of the war. so now he wants to children the freeze to death, die of malnutrition and disease. it's 2022 in europe in a city home to more than 3 million people, and we have no electricity. we have no running water. and you know, a few more strikes like that, and it's going to be four weeks. look, i think the main problem here is the western community and people in the west get entim dated by news and don't realize one simple truth. putin can actually kill more people by destroying critical infrastructure. he can cause people to freeze to death, to die of disease and starvation, and that's in modern day 21st century europe, and we need to do something about it. because he's not going to stop here. i keep saying that. people don't realize it. if he's ready to do this, then all the options are on the table for him. >> what do you mean all the

options? >> i think, look, if somebody's prepared to kill -- let's do a hypothetical. we announced an evacuation of kyiv and kyiv region. there are at least 3 million people here. chances are over 50% against state because they have no means of living. he's disrupted businesses. people can't just leave or don't want to leave or can't afford to leave or are old people. people are going to stay there. they aren't going to be any basic necessities, and he's going to have to be down to volunteers to keep them alive until march. i'm making it my mission as well, that's what i'm going to do. i'm going to stay. if it gets too horrible, the family leaves but i'll stay here and make sure as many people survive as possible. but look, a positive story, because i can't get carried away. how people adapt to this is amazing. one of the common fears is being trapped in an elevator.

people started leaving emergency boxes in elevators that have water and cookies in them and anti-depressants and everything. that's one story. the other, restaurants are fragile. whenever they have no electricity or cooking they have a cocktail list, are serving salads. they're coming up with new dishes to freud people. it's incredible. everyone's trying to do their part. i want to personally thank steven frey for sending me and a message, me and my friend for telling us to hang on there. every little bit helps, and that's very important. so, that's the situation. look, there's a reason i'm wearing this t-shirt. if we make it out alive i want this guy to direct a movie about this. >> i'm sure he will. how is your family? how are they holding up?

>> they're actually doing really well. she got to experience her first proper halloween. we introduced to concept of halloween to her in february to make her cope with the horrible realities of war, so she got to experience the real thing. and it's incredible. she saw the jack o'lanterns, friendly ghosts. sofia is studying hard, trying to become a fashion designer. so there is life. regardless of what happens we might die here, but we're not going to surrender, not going the bow down. we're going to defend our democracy until the last breath. it's like a domestic violence relationship. he's trying to burn the house down to force us to love him. it's not going to happen. we're a separate country, a democracy, and we are proud. >> you are just so -- i think most of what everyone is so

attached to in following the story of the war, everyone looks for and looks to know that you're okay, and we're so grateful. we benefit so much from your reporting and appearances, so thank you very much for being with us today. >> thank you, nicolle. before we go the breaking international stories to tell you about, first to brazil where bolsonaro, a trump act lite did not acknowledge he is election defeat to his predecessor but he will go forward with the transfer of power. to israel, according to exit polling, benjamin netanyahu's right wing alliance is on track to reclaim power. we'll keep an eye on both developments in both countries. quick break for us. we'll be right back. i really o take care of myself. i try to stay in shape. that's really important, especially as you age. i noticed after kids that my body totally changed. i started noticing a little pudge.

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thank you so much for letting us into your homes during these extraordinary times. we are grateful the i'm thankful to ari melber who hosted a supersized "the beat" so i got to go tricker treating with my son. >> for halloween i went with something outlandish, a functional democracy in america, so that was -- i'll tell you more about it. i have to tell you not only was deadline and the 5:00 hour on the east coast not the same without but, but i don't know how you do it every day. me tossing to myself was confusing. >> i can help you out. >> you're a pro, an expert. >> thank you, my friend. >> happy belated halloween. >> to you, too. >> our thanks