♪♪ hi, it's 4:00 in new york. president joe biden is set tonight to weigh in on the issue that is foundational to every other issue and debate we have in this country, democracy and the threats that loom over our democracy more than a year and a half after the ex-president tried to halt the peaceful transfer of power. it's an issue that would not be an issue if it were not for the fact that one of our country's political parties turned its back on democracy and decided to harness the terms of auto considerates. we are talking about the republicans. days before what could be the most important midterm election in history, president biden is

putting concerns front and center with a speech just steps away from the u.s. capitol. nbc news can report, while the topic has been on the president's mind for quite some time, a number of developments have added to the urgency, including the growing suggestion by some republican officials that they may not accept the election results and the fact that some republicans have refused to denounce or have outright mocked last friday's attack on house speaker nancy pelosi's husband, paul pelosi. there are new details from that horrific attack on paul pelosi. they put into perspective the interconnected threats our democracy faces right now, including the surge in violent threats against lawmakers and their families. this left law enforcement struggling to keep up. u.s. capitol police had a camera feed showing the outside of the house in san francisco during the attack on her husband

friday. but no one was monitoring it at the time. that's according to two sources. it's one of 1,800 at the capitol complex and around the country that the capitol police have the ability to monitor. they have 2,300 employees which could limit their ability to monitor all of its feeds, including those at the homes of protectees whether they are not there. conspiracies have the potential to radicalize anyone anywhere. "the new york times" reports this about the man that broke in. those who know the assailant described a shy man who in recent years fell into homelessness, isolation and darkness, spending his time in an online world of conspiracy theories and bigotry. a recent employer said, if you got him talking about politics, it was all over, because he really believed in the maga,

stolen election, all of it, all the way down the line. "the new york times" adds this detail about paul pelosi's attacker, which suggests that what happened on friday could have been much worse if it were not for pelosi's courage in the moment. the attacker told the police he had other targets. a local professor and several prominent state and federal politicians. the attack on paul pelosi and what it reveals about the threat to american democracy is where we begin. luke browbutter is back, frank figliuzzi and miles taylor is here, former chief of staff at homeland security. luke, "the times" is out with the great reporting i read from. as the investigation enters its fifth full day, the facts make

clear that all of the right wing, to quote bill barr, is bs. talk about this real investigation tracking with a stream of disinformation coming out of the right. >> the challenge for capitol police and anyone trying to keep lawmakers safe is what experts will tell you is there's been so much hatred planted among the american people, so many lies, so much bigotry spread around about specific groups of people, whether nancy pelosi, democrats generally, joe biden, other people have been targeted in this mess of conspiracy and lies, that it's almost impossible to know where the next threat, the next attack will come from. it's very hard to draw direct

lines between a demonization of someone and the attack. they know it's out there bubbling and increasing in this sort of chaos of hatred. it's very, very difficult for law enforcement officials to know exactly who is going to be at risk when and who the attack -- the next attacker will be. what they know is that more needs to be done. there's a security review under way right now about the failings to protect mr. pelosi and to protect the pelosi house. there's growing calls on capitol hill for accountability and for millions more to be spent to keep lawmakers safe because of this really dire threat environment. >> frank, i remember after 9/11, counterterrorism experts saying it's a needle in a haystack. you look amid this climate of animosity for the one potential

terror act, terror plot that is closest to coming to fruition. i wonder, what is the parallel here when the rhetoric and the destabilized individuals are literally almost half the population, taking in the disinformation. it's coming at such a clip. you have to find among one of the two major political parties in america the individuals consuming it in the millions, but you have to find the ones who have been radicalized. how do you do that? >> there's two issues here to getting toward a solution. first, of course, is getting much, much better at the vacuuming up of intelligence and making sense of it. it's incredibly difficult. millions and millions of messages a day, posts, communications, blogs, websites, tweets, all out there trying to -- law enforcement desperately trying to discern aspirational from someone who will execute.

very difficult. layer in all the concerns about civil liberties and privacy and getting a search warrant to identify somebody that facebook or somebody else tipped off to you. the intelligence side is difficult, challenging. there's another side to this. while all of that is going on -- the lone offender threat is challenging. you've got to at least do the easy stuff. make the most obvious targets harder. i have to tell you, as i talk to more and more senior law enforcement officials in washington about the pelosi attack, they are absolutely livid at the capitol police over this. they are saying they have been trained, executive protection details. they know how to hold the house, the term used within secret service, for example. you hold the highest protectee's house because, of course, that becomes the soft target when they are not there.

you monitor the cameras live of the speaker of the house, the person second in line to the presidency. of course, you do that. what they are calling for, people who talked to me are saying, there's got to be accountability. as luke alluded to, something is wrong here. the capitol police were on notice at the congressional baseball game, they were on notice when gaby giffords got shot at the supermarket. it's not fixed. it's not fixed. there does need to be accountability. remember, the capitol police work for congress. that's their boss. there's got to be accountability there. whether it's because certain members of congress -- i have seen this within my own corporate security work, con consulting. activate the alarm every time. activate the motion center when you go out or come in. you will have a detail with you when you stop at the local pizza

place for a slice. they don't like it. that's too bad. we are protecting democracy by protecting our elected officials. >> miles, there's also no way of suggesting that the targeting of pelosi was unknown to anybody. i mean, there's some great reporting from my colleagues about stewart rhodes who wrote a message to trump calling on him to save the republic, prosecutors played recordings of rhodes, including audio talking about civil war in the wake of the january 6 attack. quote, we should have brought rifles. we could have fixed it right then and there. i would hang fin' pelosi from the lamp post. publically and privately targeting pelosi has been talked about by trump's closest allies and participants in the january 6 insurrection. >> yeah. i mean to continue off of

frank's point, there's a good guy side of this equation and a bad guy side of the equation. on the good guy side, clearly, the good guys need to protect themselves better. they need to think how to increase protection. let's look at the bad guys. we are seeing a surge in terror threats against public servants, unlike anything we have seen in a modern era. the terrorist threat is greater now than the post-9/11 period. we have seen a tenfold increase to threats to u.s. members of congress since the early years of the trump administration. that's a massive spike. it's not just at the federal level. this is a nationwide problem. one in five local officials say they feel threatened on the job. not too long ago, we saw a pole that showed one in three election workers felt unsafe. you know i talk to candidates all the time out there this

cycle. there are candidates for public office out there wearing bulletproof vests on the campaign trail and trying to disclose them because they are worried about being attacked. this is extremely serious. we all know what's driving it. you noted at the top of the problem, it's conspiracy theories like we have seen drive other terrorist movements. one group of academics showed the political stress index right now in the united states is at the highest levels it has been since the civil war. doing the same thing over and over that we have been doing to try to fix this problem is not going to work. i think regardless of the results after the midterms, we will have to look long and hard not just at public safety reforms to protect members of congress but at major democracy reforms, rank choice voting and open primaries, to get more moderate public figures elected so we don't have people fanning the flames of this violent rhetoric. >> we also have to -- not that we don't do this here, us.

ben collins had a really powerful point at this hour yesterday when he said that the differences, when steve scalise was shot, that violence was condemned by everyone across the ideological spectrum. now, when paul pelosi is attacked, brutally, to the point where he needed skull surgery, you have the leader of the republican party peddling conspiracies about it. you have marjorie taylor greene talking about activists in the media covering it up. i just want to play something that our friends at the midas group put together about all of the talk about political violence, out in the open, from the most prominent figures on the right. >> which republican official or candidate has ever condoned or encouraged any type of violent assault? can you start naming them? >> i would like to punch him in the face.

knock the crap out of him. should have been roughed up. >> they never name names because they can't. >> a crime punishable by death is what treason is. nancy pelosi is guilty of treason and we want her out. >> they never name names because they can't. >> that is a depiction of gosar carrying swords. >> they never name names. >> let's have trial by combat. >> today is the day american patriots start taking down names and kicking ass. >> we will not go quietly into the night. >> get on the phone. call your congressman. you can threaten. i'm coming after you. everybody is coming after you. >> i don't think liberals thought this mask thing through. you better believe i'm coming

with my -- >> the swamp isn't truly drained until we have nailed the hides of the alligator to the wall. >> they do it out in the open. it's the hallmark of the modern republican party to do these things in public, to attack our democracy in public, to invoke threats of violence and celebrate acts of violence in public, to refuse to accept the results of democratic free and fair elections in public. luke, it's notable that liz cheney is endorsing more democratic candidates six days out from the election. it's equally notable that adam kinzinger, her fellow republican, says we're not brave, we're just surrounded. we are in a sea of cowards. what is the state -- what has

manifested itself that these two are the only republicans out there backing candidates based on their commitment to democracy? >> i mean, in an earlier era, an attack on the speaker's husband, where he was put in the icu with a cracked skull, would have been a time for people to come together, maybe lower the rhetoric, express prayers and sympathy. in this era, what has been the response from the republican leaders? you have people saying, it's unfair to blame us for this and come out and defend what they have been saying about nancy pelosi and defending the rhetoric of the republican party, or much worse, either mocking it, laughing at the attack as we have seen or doubling down and increasing the conspiracy theories, the very things that would lead to such an attack. right? you have president trump bringing out a new conspiracy theory to the public that there

was a break-in from the inside out. it's exactly the opposite of the responsible response, which would be to lower temperatures to bring the country together. it's a response that is saying, what matters is that we can never be wrong, the other party is evil, the other party is the enemy. we should stop at nothing to destroy them. if that means violence, so be it. sadly, that's the message that we have seen coming from a lot of the right, especially some people -- some of the highest ranking people on the right. i think i said yesterday, it's not funny. it's not something for conspiracy theories. it's deadly serious. i don't know why we're going as a country if the leadership of the republican party won't condemn violence and will embrace it. >> frank, if you think about what it's like for people who go to work every day at the capitol, members, their staff,

the reporters, the only category we are talking about hardening are the members themselves. to the degree that the capitol complex descends into this sort of fever swamp of conspiracies -- i am careful not to amplify marjorie taylor greene. but it's likely she could be at the beginning of the beginning of her political sort of power plays in the republican caucus. i am going to share this. she tweeted that, the same main street media democrat activists that sold conspiraies are now blaming elon musk. the media is a source of misinformation. this is from the san francisco dachlt filing of what -- d.a. filing, perhaps the difference with paul surviving with simply

surviving -- this is from the dispatch. the dispatcher and paul pelosi

probably making split-second decisions that dramatically altered what happened that night. this conspiracy stuff on the right, it's coming from the attack. we are at a point where no one offers prayers, they believe the assailant. the parallel would be, imagine if anyone on the left had believed mr. scalise's assailant. nobody did that. there was a problem -- the country is broken. our politics are broken on the republican side. >> we talked yesterday about how this is a strategy. how the swiftness of the response to the pelosi attack, the immediacy across the far right of not only saying this didn't happen this way but laughing at it, being encouraging and supportive of this kind of violence, that's not happenstance. that's not just a meanness of

lack of compassion. this is what they have left to do. it's all they have left. let's make no doubt about it. they understand, these are not stupid people. they understand. there was a police department investigation, a federal investigation. there are federal charges that had to be sworn out in an affidavit. there's a u.s. attorney. there's a district attorney. there's a dispatcher. all of this, the guy confessed, and they know it. but it makes them look bad. so they are duping their followers. what we're going to quickly heard, hey, the clip, laura ing -- what i say, it's free speech. that's not criminally actionable violent threats. you are infringing on free speech. it's not free speech without

responsibility attached to it. we are being duped into thinking, you are right, i guess you do have the right to say whatever you want, even if people are getting killed. that's where we are. we have become numb to the violent radicalization that's being incited. then we are becoming duped into thinking, i guess that's free speech. it's not. >> miles, the last word. i think you are the friend of the show that has been warning about political violence the longest and the loudest. here we are. this is what we are covering now. >> you have been shining a light on this for a long time. you know what? people mock us. we are the chicken littles of cable news. okay, the sky is falling, the sky is falling. since january 6, we have been talking about this. since that attack, we have had assassination plots against senators, governors, congressmen, cabinet officials,

local leaders, candidates for public office. now we have an assassination attempt in pelosi's home that almost -- thank god it wasn't successful. i worry that's not enough. in fact, it's clear it's not enough to draw attention to it. some people have said, it's going to take a high profile assassination, unfortunately, to wake the country up. i am more worried that will not do it, because the other side has so brainwashed the country that if something like that happened, they would say, it's just one disturbed person. no, it's not. these are huge trend lines. once again, i got mocked on this show probably a year ago for saying that the biggest public safety threat i have seen in my lifetime is the maga republican party. i will say it again. the maga republican party is fuelling this and creating the biggest terror threat domestically we have seen in this country. it is the biggest national security threat to the united

states and really the only tool voters have right now to keep it in check is to fire these people. you have to fire the extremists. i'm worried that's not what we will see in these midterm elections. >> a remarkable moment in our country's story. i'm grateful to all of you. thank you so much for starting us off today. frank will be back in the next hour. running to defeat the hate and lies. our next guest was thrust into the national spotlight for pushing back against political rhetoric that was extreme. michigan state senator will talk about our polarized environment and what the most important issues are with six days to go until the midterms. the january 6 select committee has obtained emails from trump lawyer john eastman, emails he felt to keep private. we are learning why that is. he had a plan for the united

states supreme court, for clarence thomas specifically, as the only chance to stop the 2020 election certification. we will tell you about it. later, president joe biden taking another step in his mission to restore the soul of the nation. we will look ahead at what he plans to say tonight in his primetime speech on the growing threat to american democracy. all those stories and more when "deadline white house" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. will you make something better? create something new? our dell technologies advisors can provide you with the tools and expertise you need to bring out the innovator in you. ♪♪ hmmm. tryna catch me ridin' ...thirty. ♪ they see me rollin' they hatin' ♪ ♪ patrollin' and tryna catch me ridin' thirty ♪ the 30-day money back guarantee. that's car buying reimagined. only from carmax. ♪ ridin' thirty ♪

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these violent feelings, who is pointing fingers, scapegoating, making a joke about a violent attack on paul pelosi? why would you trust that person to have power over you, your family, your business, your community? this is a real threat to the heart of our democracy. >> hillary clinton's timely warning about the deceitful and hateful rhetoric coming out of today's right wing extremist agenda and its candidates on the ballot in the midterm election. our next guest has been fighting on the front lines this year against the unceasing attacks and dangerous language. >> i am the biggest threat to your hollow, hateful scheme, because you can't claim that you are targeting marginalized kids

in the name of parental rights if another parent is standing up to say no. i am a straight, white, christian, married suburban mom who knows the notion that learning about slavery or racism means children are taught to hate themselves because they are white is absolute nonsense. >> it's a pleasure to introduce michigan state democratic senator mallory mcmorough. the right seems captive to conspiracies. i know you have seen the things we have been talking about up close, not just the lies but political violence. we wanted to hear your thoughts about this moment and your concerns. >> it's a scary moment. we saw this play out here in michigan with an armed protest on our state capitol in april of 2020 where there were heavily

armed gunmen in our gallery. later on the same day that we learned about the plot to kidnap and potentially kill governor whitmer, we were on the senate floor and we were watching the live stream and our senate majority leader stood up and gave a speech decrying that violence. then immediately turned around and went to a protest on the capitol steps with the same group of militias who were responsible for orchestrating that plot and told them to keep going. we have seen this for some time. this is why it's so important to recognize. the gop right now is doing this as a political strategy. they are aligning themselves with these groups because it's winning. we have six days left to fight back, not with violence, but at the ballot box. >> how are you feeling about that? we had a metropolitan police

officer on. t's on people's ssessment. mind? do you think it feels separate from their lives? >> i think it very much is on people's minds here in michigan. we have seen it right at home. when we saw january 6th play out, it didn't surprise anymore in michigan, because michigan was the trial run. we saw that there were no consequences at the time for people who took part in the violent protest on our state capitol. the difference being in michigan, they didn't break in with weapons, they were invited in by the republican majority leader. voters, when we talk to them, are keenly aware of this issue. they know that the best way that we can fight back is by voting these people out of office so that they know aligning yourself with violent criminals, with people who want to disrupt our system of government and cause harm, is not a winning strategy. you will be voted out of office.

>> something that's always struck me is that republicans are running on ideas that they think give them an advantage but nothing to address them. they have no plans to deal with inflation or the economy or crime. they simply want to use them as political ideas against the other party. do you feel when you are talking to voters in an important state, is that connection made? are people just sort of exasperated? >> that's right. it's our job as candidates, especially down ballot, to have that conversation directly with voters. the republicans are excellent at pointing out issues, at pointing out inflation, at pointing out that people are struggling. a perfect example in michigan, republicans put up a bill to have a gas tax holiday that we voted against. now they are using it in ads against democrats.

it's a gas tax holiday that wouldn't have gone into affect until 2023. they are doing it to score political points. we are the ones on the doors talking to voters every day pointing out that they don't have any solutions. they want you to believe that somehow it's a kid who wants to play soccer at school or it's a member of the lgbtq community or whatever the attack is of the week, that somehow if that went away, it would solve all your problems. it's absolute nonsense. voters are smarter than that. >> it's out of "american president," what to be afraid of and who to blame. you are one of the most effective messengers in the country. do people ask for your advice? >> they do. i have been really thrilled to be able to work with state senate candidates around michigan. we have an opportunity to flip the state senate from gop to democratic control for first time since 1984.

it really is about making that direct connection. it's about talking about the economy. it's about talking about democratic solutions and pointing out directly to voters that we do have solutions. you probably can't hear them because the republicans right now are out there screaming about exactly that, who you should be afraid of this week. once we reveal that and reveal how hollow it is, voters are ready to kick them out of office. >> that's great. it's a pleasure to talk to you. i would love to hear how you think things went in terms of what was communicated and what voters said was on their minds. if you are willing, we would love to stay in touch. >> i'd love that. thanks. >> thank you so much. up next, new e-mails from trump lawyer john eastman, show his plot to get a stay request to justice clarence thomas to call georgia election results into doubt. we will tell you about that new reporting next.

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new emails are shedding light on the disgraced ex-president and his allies' efforts to overturn the 2020 election results in georgia. e-mailed received on how trump's attorneys saw clarence thomas as their life line to stop joe

biden's certification. we want to frame things so that thomas could be the one to issue some sort of stay or other circuit justice opinion saying georgia is in doubt. that was trump's attorney. he wrote that in a december email to trump's legal team. he contended thomas would be, quote, our only chance to get a favorable judicial opinion which might hold up the georgia count in congress. quote, i think i agree with this, attorney john eastman replied, suggesting a favorable move by thomas or other justices would, quote, kick the georgia legislature into gear to help overturn the election results. "the washington post" is reporting on these new emails. they report this, quote, eastman clerked for justice thomas and has remained in touch with his wife ginni. one showed her inviing eastman

to speak to conservative activists to provide an update about election litigation. wow. let's bring in jackie alamani and harry lipman. i want to deal with what this means for the united states supreme court. this is writing connecting the loop of at least perceived corruption at the supreme court, that ginni thomas is part of the plot was perhaps the link to her husband. this at least requires some perception laundering to be done by the united states supreme court. no? >> yes. this is the most scathing thing i have heard about thomas to date. it's one thing -- a lot of democrats think he is in the tank all the time. this is the home team.

eastman clerked for thomas, spent a year shoulder to shoulder. he thinks thomas is the guy to deliver the very thing that the entire department of justice resigned rather than do. this is trump saying, just cast some doubt on it and the republican congressman will take care of the rest. they want thomas to do just that little bit. it's an amazing charge that they could think it's even possible, but that it comes from people who know him so well really raises eyebrows. >> jackie, perception laundering may be all that the supreme court can do. clean up the perception they were part of the plot. it's much worse when you line up thomas' votes on insurrection-related cases that made their way to the supreme court. most notably, he was the only justice to dissent and say the select committee should not have access to any documents.

what is your analysis? i want to read more from the reporting on this. what is your analysis of their confidence that thomas would deliver? >> let's be clear, these are votes thomas continues to cast despite tons of calls from democrats on the range of liberal to moderate have asked him to recuse himself from. we also need to be clear that there is no thomas, neither ginni his wife, nor clarence cc'd on the emails. none of the lawyers -- seven or eight in total were on these emails that were released today in a court filing had indicated in any way that they directly made an appeal to clarence thomas. that's not to say that that evidence doesn't exist or at least there is a paper trail of it.

that being said, the way that you have people like kenneth and john going back and forth is a fairly high degree of confidence that clarence thomas would rule in their favor and ultimately help sway members of congress who might have been undecided about whether or not they were going to disrupt the electoral certification. we should also note that clarence thomas does happen to be the justice who oversees emergency petitions in the supreme court, which includes georgia. it does seem like there was some legal strategizing here in order to frame things up so that thomas could be the one to issue some sort of stay or other -- or have another circuit justice opinion saying georgia is in legitimate doubt. essentially, these lawyers agree they needed at least one influential voice in order to get some lawmakers who were on

the fence about this legal strategy to overturn the results of the election in order to get them to cross the rubicon. >> we have so much sound of eastman around this issue. let me play what eastman had to say at the january 6 rally about the role that he thought the supreme court could play. do we have this? eastman at the january 6 rally. >> we've got petitions pending before the supreme court that identify in chapter and verse the number of times state election officials ignored or violated the state law. all we are demanding of vice president pence is this afternoon at 1:00, he let the legislatures of the state look into this so we get to the bottom of it. >> here he is four weeks earlier, acknowledging there wasn't any fraud found and explaining to a state legislator in georgia that they didn't need

to find fraud, it was a ruse. eastman telling a georgia senator she didn't need to find fraud. >> what do you say to -- what's been laid out by our secretary of state, governor, attorney general barr and the courts -- right now there have not been, as far as i'm aware, proof of the number of ballots that would be required to have been problematic to switch the election and call it a failed election. i don't know where the evidence is. >> you can say there's no fraud whatsoever. even without any evidence of fraud. >> can that be used against him? these are confessions it was a ruse. she lists barr and raffensperger

and kemp not producing any. >> every time eastman has been pushed to the wall, he has taken the fifth. there's all kinds of things that can be said against him. i want to emphasize what the strategy was. they needed that much -- this is what trump said. give me just an expression of some doubt. thomas wasn't going to make a ruling. he didn't have to stay it for them. this is the same thing we have seen in the last few days. thomas with lindsey graham, kagan with the arizona secretary of state, yesterday roberts with trump and the taxes. just as the circuit justice -- give me a little bit that trump could then use to leverage and say, there's controversy. then he would whipsaw the members of congress and the whole country. this was their last best hope. this is the best hope, i don't know how likely they thought it would be to succeed. they were just looking for that little bit for trump to go

running with. that's the sobering scenario. had he gotten that much, could he have revved up the country, frozen the lelegislatures? >> they wanted to delay. giuliani was in on it also. i want to ask you about whether they are being examined as part of a conspiracy. we have to sneak in a quick break. don't go flirp. ave to sneak in break. don't go flirp

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presumably, action like this will be challenged in the supreme court. should they take this action, or some other legislature. how do you see that argument? >> it could get to the supreme court or it could be presented to congress at the joint session of congress when they begin opening the ballots and counting the ballots. if you have the governor's certified slate of electors and a legislature's certified slate of electors. section 15 of title 3 is ambiguous about which of those slates of electors ought to be counted. i think the supreme court may weigh in. >> rudy giuliani and john eastman putting on a show on the scheme to get the supreme court to weigh in and aid them in the alternate electorate scheme which is under investigation by

the doj. i'm struck that two of those three men have taken the fifth over and over again in their taped depositions with the january 6th committee. i know you reported and i asked if criminal referrals are still in their future. are they talking about criminal referrals for rudy giuliani and john eastman in the fake elector scheme? >> i've not heard yet. we're trying to find out who they're weighing for criminal referrals, other than the former president. but rudy giuliani and john eastman would make sense as they were leading the charge on the efforts to overturn the election, especially from a legal perspective and they both left documentation of those efforts. i think one of the emails in the eight that the committee received that was noteworthy to me but didn't involve clarence thomas so it isn't getting as

much play but is an e mail where john eastman is concerned about exposure for a lawsuit filed for voter fraud. and he writes to the lawyers in georgia, who are working on the suit that given that trump has been made aware that some of the allegations and evidence given by experts is inaccurate, that he essentially worries if trump signs the new verification on a new lawsuit that it's illegal. and that there could be some criminal repercussions as the former president was well aware and we know this through extensive documentation from legal advisers and top staffers to the former president that he was made aware over and over again that allegations of voter fraud being presented to him by these fringe players were false. that the doj people like attorney general jeff rosen were

not able to identify these cases and they were, in fact, conspiracy theories. so, you know, this is, again, john eastman in his own words expressing concern that what they're doing is illegal. >> harry, let me read from the email that jackie is describing from us. this is from eastman, quote, i have no doubt that an aggressive da or u.s. attorney someplace will go after the president and his lawyers once the dust settles on this, eastman wrote. this really was a strategy designed in the moment to halt the certification of president joe biden. they didn't have a lot of plans. you know, it makes the her shman testimony from the 1/6 committee ring true. hire yourself a good defense attorney because you need it. >> maybe let's get past it and there will be pardons all around. for georgia, eastman and giuliani and mark meadows, who

went down there themselves they're the ones in the soup. all would be conspiracy liability people who made an agreement and did something in furtherance of that agreement starting with trump. you go from the willard room to the people who went down to georgia to brief them with a load of ma larky. that all forms the basis and i'm sure they're investigating it at the doj whether or not they get a referral for potential conspiracy liability for specifically georgia, which by the way, dove tails some with what is going on in fulton county where some of the same figures have been made to testify and have taken the fifth, like giuliani. >> it's just amazing. the more that comes out, the more incriminating it all is. thank you for your reporting on this and joining us today. harry, thank you for helping us make sense of all of it. a quick break for us. up next we look ahead to

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extremism is unlimited. they're coming after your right to vote. you have 350 or so election deniers on the ballot, on the republican ticket. this is deadly ernest, man. democracy is on the ballot this year. along with your right to choose and the right to privacy.

>> hi again, everyone. it's 5:00 in new york. last night that was what amounts to a preview from president joe biden to the prime time address he'll make tonight on the importance of protecting our freedoms and democracy as part of his final pitch to the country. from the ap reporting, quote, the president who has been focused on drawing an economic contrast between the democrats and gop is faced on ultra maga republicans. the new remarks come as hundreds of candidates who falsely denied the legitimacy of the 2020 election are on the ballots across the country with many poised in critical roles to oversee elections. it's president biden's stated mission to restore the soul of the economy and issues like

inflation and economy have taken center stage. he and democrats wanted to make sure voters don't lose sight of the fact that the fundamentals of our democracy are at state. >> there is a tendency to think that preserving democracy is an academic conversation, an academic pursuit. it is not. i'll be honest, the first thing i hear about on the street in my district where people are focused on what are more traditional kitchen table issues. but i believe that protecting our democracy is the ultimate kitchen table issue. in fact, it's not even the kitchen table. our democracy is the foundation of the home in which the kitchen table sits. >> and then the ultimate sign of country over party, slotkin made those comments while standing

next to a very conservative republican, one liz cheney. it was liz cheney's first time ever campaigning for a democrat. she made the case we can no longer look at elections like we used to. >> we have to walk away from politics as usual. we have to walk away. we have to stand up, every one of us, and say we're going to do what's right for this country. we're going to look beyond partisan politics. if the people in our party are not doing the job we need to do, we're going to vote for the people in the other party because we are americans above all else. >> the urgent and important need to defend american democracy at the ballot box next week is where we begin the hour with moderaor of washington week yamiche alcindor and cornell and matt. i want to show you one more

piece of sound from the campaign trail. this is elaine laurel's closing message. the ad is in line with what elissa slotkin and liz cheney are talking about, not being about winning but being about the country. >> politics used to be about serving. today, it's about winning at all costs. >> you have not answered the question. was joe biden fairly elected. >> that's not me. and if standing up for what's right means losing an election, so be it. if you're looking for someone who will just say anything just to win, i'm not your candidate. if you support insurrectionists or call our military weak, i'm not your candidate. if you attack the fbi and defend donald trump, i'm not your candidate. if you believe the 2020 election was stolen, i'm definitely not

your candidate. but if you believe that our democracy and constitution are worth fighting for, and you want a congresswoman who will always stand up for what's right, then i'm elaine laurel, i approve this message and i am your candidate. >> yamiche, it's so striking. you have these democratic candidates running on patriotism, running on the country above all else. i guess the $64 million question is, is it going to work? is that what we expect to hear from the president tonight? >> that's i think part of what we're going to hear from the president. that's a key question, is what elaine lurie doing, staking her political future on defending democracy, is that going to work in her favor or like liz cheney someone saying i'm standing on my morals, dignity but i'll no longer be in office next year. that's the big question.

the i know talking to white house officials he's coming out talking about defending democracy. and also that he's going to be talking about what he sees as an alarming trend and that's an increase in threats to democracy and threats to political violence. some white house officials today said part of what the president was so struck by was what happened to paul pelosi when his home was broken into and you had the person beat him over the head with a hammer and you have some republicans, not all, some republicans defending that, making conspiracy theories about that. he's delivering the speech, president biden at what he sees as a critical time in the election. six days before americans go to the polls and we start to tally the ballots. saying if you don't support me, here's what you need to know about american democracy, some people have to win, some have to lose, and that's the way it has to be. >> do you know if it was one specific thing he saw? if he saw the ex-president on

the podcast questioning the da filing and the police reports from san francisco or just the feeling we don't have any breaks anymore, even a brutal attack on the speaker's husband doesn't break the toxicity. >> it's by my sense that the president has been worried about this for a while, nancy pelosi's husband beaten up is part of it. but let's remember when he launched his campaign he talked about this was a battle for the soul of the country and white house officials are saying this is a continuation of the same theme and message from him. it's the same thing we heard when he went to philadelphia and made the speech about democracy. this is him yet again saying to the american people, we're about to have an election things might get tense but remember we're all americans and democracy needs to be the thing we fundamentally agree on. i don't think it's one big

thing, but my understanding he's sensing as we get close to the election he needs to speak out. i did a 12 minute deep dive and went in there and saw people going door to door, election deniers, trying to get people to go and work as poll workers, election officials. we heard people were going to take firearms and sit at mail drop boxes because they're worried people are going to be stuffing ballots. the conspiracy theories are now coming into a new election and it's in some ways there's a lot of concern that it's going to be dangerous out there. if you're trying to drop off your ballot you could be met with someone with a firearm saying you're not allowed to drop off your ballot. you have more than 200 house candidates who have questioned or denied the question and then you have secretary of state and senate candidates and the list goes on. doing that report i found coming face-to-face with so many people there are a lot of people energized that are willing to

come out and confront people face to face and then you have election workers that are scared to do their job. >> you have election deniers running under one party, under republicans. it's part of the reason that liz cheney is out for democrats. she endorsed another yesterday, tim ryan. but this is a message you've been advocating people take to their voters and their constituents for a long time. what do you make of everyone seeming to land on it now, and the impact that the president can have tonight? >> well, i'm heartened to see, as you saw the add in elaine lurie of what she staked out in virginia, which i think is going to be an early fascinating case study on election night. a state whose polls close early. a state where her race has been

the huge republican target. and if she somehow pulls that race out early on in the evening, it's going to tell us a lot about how the rest of the evening is going. she's done it well. i think the president tonight is going to connect all the dots once again and add the big huge dot which is the election denialism, the lies, leads us to what happened in speaker pelosi's house to her husband. all of it leads there. the greatest threat to democracy starts with the lies but then continues through violence. and i think he's going to make that wholesale full connected argument in that my worry, my worry for election night is not enough democrats, like elaine lurie and like the president now, have made this argument in a full-throated way, they said it in stump speeches but then they don't run ads on it which is the main way voters here

about this. some have done it well. i think the folks in michigan have done it well, which is a bright spot election night i think for democrats. but many have not. and they followed traditional consultant model which is look at the polls, the number one issue is inflation we need to talk about inflation, playing right into my view, the gop playbook. we'll see on election night. i think this is one election i have never seen. i have no idea what's going to happen, nicole. a few hundred thousand votes are going to determine who holds the senate, who holds the house, and who holds key statewide offices in our country and whether or not democracy continues or is pushed over the edge into something else. it's going to be a fascinating night. i wish the democrats had spent and done more of their time in state by state on this issue. >> i wanted to do two pieces of business. to matt dowd's point i got the first excerpts from the speech, i'm going to go through them

with the three of you. but matt, i heard today, this is the first quasi post covid election, and the early vote may not be measurable against a covid early vote. i think your point about bracing ourselves for what we don't know headed into next tuesday is an important one. let me share these excerpts. they're just released from the white house. this is what president joe biden will say in his address to the nation in about two hours. quote, this is also the first national election since the events of january 6th when an armed angry mob stormed the u.s. capitol. i wish i could say the assault on our democracy ended that day, but i cannot. there are candidates running for every level of office in america, for governor, for congress, for attorney general, for secretary of state who will not commit to accepting the

results of the elections they are in. that is the path to chaos in america. it is unprecedented, it is unlawful and it is un-american, as i said before you can't love your country only when you win. i ask you to think long and hard about the moment we are in. in a typical year we're not office faced with the question of whether the vote we ask will preserve democracy or put it at risk. we are this year. cornell, this is something you and i have gone back and forth on the last 12 months but this is the president putting it to the country. your vote will, in part, determine whether or not we continue to live in a democracy. >> yeah. no, when you were -- first, great reporting as usual from yamiche. but when you were asking about how did this come about? i was thinking, i feel seen, and i think we should feel seen because we've been talking about this for the last, what, two months now. >> yeah. >> it seems like someone at the

white house is watching your show, nicole. >> it's on at a good time for them, all in their offices. >> i think it was the tape delay. i think it was on tape delay. >> but we talked about it. we need the president, we need his big bull horn to define what this means. what does it mean, what does it look like? and make sure that middle americans, understand that they have skin in this democracy game. this is not just a -- you know, as the congresswoman said, it's not the kitchen table, it's the entire table. and there's economic ramifications with the ideal of us losing democracy. if you think you have economic stress now and the economy is not great now. what do you think it's going to be if we lose democracy. so i'm happy, although i agree, i would like to have seen it earlier, but i'm very happy that the president and the white house is now using its big bully

pulpit, its bull horn, now to frame this conversation going into the close, i'm very happy they're saying it. i think you're going to see more democrats picking it up, because i think it is a closing argument. i do understand that look, in all the polling, choice and economy were top issues, so dowd is right. the typical thing is what's the top issue, speak to that issue. many of us arguing that democracy is not just a top issue but it's a mobilizing issue. it's an issue that you can actually mobilize voters around, as opposed to just being economy is my top issue. which is their top issue every election cycle but i'm glad the white house is doing this. >> let me show you what president obama had to say and i want to come to you yamiche with these excerpts i just got. >> these days just about every republican politician seems obsessed with two things, owning the libs and getting donald trump's approval.

if they get control of congress, their big priority, their number one priority, they're going to spend the next two years investigating their political opponents. let me ask you a question, how is that going to help you pay your bills? >> the answer, he's absolutely rights. they're not running on helping you pay your bills or ending crime in your neighborhood. they're just attacking the other party. i wonder what you make of president obama's message out there, his closing message, his speeches have been electric. i could -- we should replay all of them. and then president biden's plan to sort of -- i think the most similar speech in terms of themes really is his inaugural address, which was about the foundational pillars of our democracy being under threat. >> as i was reading the excerpts along with you, it did remind me of president biden's inaugural speech and his idea to try to bridge this sort of gap between

americans and say, look, i'm an american for all of you, even the people who didn't vote for me. you hear the president in the speech, the line that got to me the most this is not an ordinary year we're not casting a vote for democracy usually. it's the people trying to tear at the foundation of our democracy that we should be wary of. this is a continuation of the theme the white house has been trying to lean into, while also balancing what is record inflation, including global issues with inflation. but the idea there are a lot of people in this country worried about pocketbook issues and surviving and trying to balance that, which is why you see democrats and republicans as well. but a lot of democrats in particular talking about inflation, the economy, and trying to say, by the way, you have to be worried about what's going on with democracy and sort of the real threats here. when i watched president obama, it reminds me of why when i talked to democrats who talked to president obama, that's the

swagger, he's the closer, someone who is wildly popular within the democratic party and someone who understands, because of what happened in 2010 someone who understands how important midterms are to the ability of a president to govern and do the things he wants to do. so it makes sense that president obama is out there. he's been targeted by republicans with all sorts of conspiracy theories on his own. so in some ways it reminds you what he had to go through when he was president. overall, this speech goes back to the overall theme which is that president biden really wants to try to reach americans no matter what you vote please don't vote for someone who's going to tear at the foundation of our democracy. i don't know how much that message is going to resonate. the people who believe that the election was stolen, a lot of them their minds are not going to be made up. and that is part of the scary part of all of this. >> matt dowd, i want your thoughts on the excerpts we shared but i also want to play

one more candidate for you. go ahead on any thoughts now that you've seen some of the speech. >> well, the words you have is exactly what i was hoping he would say, which is connect the dots in all of this. i mean, i -- when pollsters even ask about it, you look at all the polls, most of the pollsters don't ask about threat to democracy, don't list it as a issue. when they do it's the number two issue, the number one issue to democrats. it's number one, more than inflation, jobs, choice, the number one issue among democrats when they do ask about it. i hope it's a visceral thing where he says if you care about the economy and equity in the economy, democracy is the only way to preserve it and not reward people's friends which is what happens in an autocracy. if you care about medicare,

democracy is the only thing. so the excerpts you read i think are great. i hope that, as cornell said, once he gives that speech, every democrat running from state rep to united states senator and governor picks it up and runs with it for the last five days. >> let me show you what tim ryan had so to say last night. >> they storm the capital on january 6th. beat up 140 police officers, killed one. they killed one -- >> we all -- we all watched the -- we all watched the video. we all watched the video. >> let him finish, please. >> i work -- i'm happy to have this conversation. i'm not afraid to have this conversation. these are the conversations we need to have in this country, i welcome you guys, let's just be

respectful but i'm not afraid to stand here and defend my position. on january 6th, i sit on the subcommittee that funds the capitol police, these are my friends, 140 of them got hurt. and some of them still can't go back to work because they were beat up with lead pipes, sprayed with pepper spray, beaten with flagpoles. they were trying to overthrow the government, stop the peaceful transition of the government, what else are they doing there? they want to kill mike pence, nancy pelosi. now somebody is beating up nancy pelosi's husband. jd vance raised money for them. i don't care what your politics are but americans should say, no. we have to say no to that. >> we cut it off, but they clap. they went from booing. and i guess my question for you, cornell. i think tim ryan has run a fantastic campaign and i hope

democrats nationally have been behind him. jd vance is a menace. liz cheney threw her weight behind tim ryan for that reason. i think going into the lion's den here, i don't know if anyone in the room who clapped will change their vote. but it is another hoop that democrats have to run through. it's this disinformation, this affirming narratives. and i wonder what you thought of that? >> one, i think tim ryan is a fantastic candidate. look, he's someone from youngstown, ohio. he's as middle america, blue collar working class ohio as they get. and i think he was -- i think he did the right thing to go in there -- one of the things i used to work for a guy by the name of howard dean. what governor dean would say is half our job is show up and engage voters. we're not going to win over all the voters but we're not going to win any of the conversations

if we don't go to the places where people don't necessarily agree with us and at least start having that conversation. so no doubt in my mind that, no, a lot of these voters who think that, you know, january 6th was -- wasn't real we're not going to win those. but a lot of these voters who are uncertain, because one of the things that i think sort of the other side has done well is muddy up the waters. >> yeah. >> and, you know, i think at least the three of us who worked in campaign politics knows if you can't win an argument, muddy the waters. i think they've done a really good job of muddying the water. i hear all the time it wasn't really trump supporters, it was the black lives matter folks or other people, muddying the water. one way to clear it up is how tim ryan has done it, gone right to them and he has the courage to have that conversation. i bet he won over some voters that night. >> i think so too. thank you all so much for starting us off this hour.

when we come back, the battle to preserve and protect american democracy falls squarely on the men and women who administer elections, secretary of state, many are locked in tight races with 2020 election deniers. the secretary of state from the state of colorado will share with us what she fears most with days to go ahead of the midterm elections. plus, new reporting on the investigation into how those top secret documents were taken by the twice impeached ex-president to his florida club. the top aide who says he's with the boss even as doj looks to secure his testimony. and later in the show, the trump era saw the breakdown of norms and guardrails. yet enough people did what needed to be done to save our country. their story is a brand new book and the author will be with us later in our program.

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the president is expected to highlight tonight in six days many americans will face a choice at the ballot box, defend democracy or embrace the big lie. many republican election deniers at every level are pushing. one of the more overlooked but perhaps most consequential ballots are secretary of state. we've seen how secretaries of state are the front line defenders of democracies. helping to make sure that the disgraced ex-president's atempt

to overturn his 2020 defeat are met with failure. this is taking on urgency as election deniers are seeking to overturn the 2020 election still. and while democrats are outspending republicans on tv ads in secretary of state races by a wide margin, 57 to 1, many races remain close. joining us now, colorado's secretary of state jenna greenwald. thank you for being with us. >> thank you for having me. >> how are you feeling? >> i'm optimistic. optimistic that americans understand the election we're facing. this is perhaps one of the most consequential midterm elections in history, where we can return

to ideals that everyday people get to choose their elected officials that go and represent them. overall we are seeing a coordinated effort to disrupt american elections for a long-term play and that should be very troubling for every american regardless of party. >> our friends at axios are reporting this, that the fbi and homeland security analysts have identified colorado, your state, as one of the top states for threats to poll workers and put election administrators on heightened alert. do you feel the federal government and state officials have what they need to make sure everyone stays safe next week? >> i do. i feel that we've been very pro active. and as secretary of state i, in fact, just led a new package of laws in colorado. it is now a crime to retaliate an election worker we made it a felony to tamper with voting equipment. and we prohibited the open carry

of guns near drop boxes or where they're processing ballots. we have zero acceptance for voter intimidation. every coloradoan should feel free to vote without intimidation. luckily we have no reports of intimidation in colorado and if there is we will act swiftly. >> we covered a great deal of what's going on in arizona with people filming and watching the ballots and what's gone on with doj intervening there. are you seeing any evidence of that, are you prepared if that does come to pass in colorado? >> well, there was an election denier group, led by someone who has threatened both the lives of the governor and myself, who said that they were going to launch this ballot dropbox watching in the state of colorado. but, in fact, we have not seen any evidence of that. and again, if there is any voter intimidation we will act very quickly. i think it's great that a court

acted yesterday in arizona and the doj is taking such a strong position. overall, we have to reject extremism and election denialism and we do it in a couple ways. number one, stopping voter suppression. there's been an effort to stop voter suppression laws. number two, prosecuting, when there is any type of destabilization or breaking of the laws of -- election laws, but number three we have to beat the election deniers at the ballot box. over 60% of americans will have an election denier on their ballot. we have the ability to come together and rededicate ourself to the country. >> thank you for your service. please stay safe. come back and see us and let us know if anything pops up that concerns you. thank you. >> thank you, so much. when we come back, brand new reporting on the mar-a-lago documents investigation and what

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would you accept the position of fbi director under donald trump 2024? >> look i'm all -- >> yes or no? >> i'm all in with the boss and you know that, and, you know, first i tell people, let's win the midterms and then let's see

what he does. you and i think i know what he's going to do, and then it's a two year lift. they're going to come after us but we'll have the benny johnson show, truth social and some form of twitter and we're going to go nonfreaking stop for two years. >> doj if you're listening, that's where kash patel stands. he's remained firmly, at least publicly, as loyal as can be. as one of the disgraced ex-president's biggest confidants and defenders still today. even notably as one of the appointed representatives to deal with nothing less than presidential records. reporting today revealed how far the justice department may be willing to go, they're saying prosecutors are weighing whether to make an immunity deal with him to get him to testify about the ex-president's absurd public

utterances that he declassified the documents that he took to mar-a-lago. let's bring in barbara mcquade, and former fbi assistant director for counterintelligence frank figliuzzi is back with us. both msnbc contributors. obviously you publically pledge your loyalty to the boss on whatever that was, tv, radio, podcast. does it weigh into any deliberations that doj may be having about whether or not to immunize patel? >> he's clearly expressed loyalty but as we so often -- when -- oftentimes people will -- here i think -- >> barb we're going to fix your audio. give us a second to fix your audio. fig let me come to you with the same question. does public announcements or

declarations or loyalty to, his words not mine, the boss weigh into any prosecution strategies on the part of the doj? >> i think it clearly signals that they have a potential witness that isn't going to play ball easily. i think that is part of the reason why they are seriously, reportedly, considering offering him at least limited use immunity. he's not someone who's going to give up. this is having all the earmarks of an organization where the don demands the loyalty and no one snitches on the don. so yeah, i think that's playing into it. look, i've got to refer back to that clip you just played. if anybody needs a glimpse of what another trump administration might look like, please consider the possibility of kash patel as your next fbi director. that's where we are here. it's an interesting strategy and i'm sure barb is going to weigh in on this about the relevance and the significance of granting

immunity in a case like this. there's really only one person it seems to point to and why they would give patel such immunity because they're looking at the boss as patel said and that's a clear signal to all of us that they're dead serious about looking at trump and his culpability. >> we're still trying to get -- sharing the tech challenges we're trying to get barb back online to hear her brilliant analysis on this. let me ask you about a reporting last week in "the new york times." federal prosecutors have ratcheted up their investigation. does catch patel play which he is, is he thinking i'm more valuable if i'm pledging my service in a 2024 trump administration, or is he saying what he has to say to not incur the wrath of the boss? how would you analyze, as a

profiler, this witness' conduct? >>, you know, as is often the case in the trump circle, the answer is yes, both. they're trying to have it both ways. trying to keep the boss happy. i want to stay in the circle, i don't want to alienate myself, god help me i feel threatened by these people anyway, and i don't want to go to prison either. i find it interesting the reporting says allegedly patel may have asserted the fifth amendment in the recent grand jury, the question is to what? why? what is it he feels exposed to? you don't want to give him complete immunity to everything he ever did that was criminal. you want to carve out, for example, if you had something to do with the violence or the stop the steal thing on january 6th, that's still in play, my friend. we'll give you immunity with regard to trump's conduct with regard to the documents.

so that kind of gamesmanship is going back and forth, i'm sure. >> if you're gifting immunity to kash patel, according to donald trump there's no one between donald trump and kash patel on the documents, is that the clear indication you've seen that trump is the target? >> yes. i can't envision a viable other possibility here. you don't -- this is a big fish, kash patel. and you don't consider lightly offering even limited use immunity, unless you want him to give up information about your main target and that certainly appears to be donald trump. let's talk just a little bit about why this is so important to doj. people might be sitting there going, wait a minute, i thought it wasn't important to the statutory elements that might be charged here that the documents were classified, so why do we care about this? this isn't so much about whether the documents are still

classified or not, but rather whether donald trump genuinely believed that they were or were not. so if patel can say look we made this up. in fact, trump told me to make this whole declassification nonsense up. now it goes towards mindset of the former president. now it's a house of cards for him. now they've taken away the assertion that i could take them home because i thought they were mine to keep because they weren't classified anymore. if patel can put a hole in that and say we made this whole nonsense up, now doj goes yeah, you have less of a right to bring that stuff home, it's still classified and you knew it. >> barb new sense of what the deliberations around offering immunity to kash patel tell us about the timing of that investigation? >> i think it tells us that we're actually getting close to the end. you don't make these kinds of deals until you feel like you know a lot about the case that you reviewed all of the

material, talked to the other witnesses who will talk with you without immunity. it says to me they're getting close but there is more information they want. you already had kash patel in the grand jury, seems to have asserted his fifth amendment rights. so maybe to get that last piece of knowledge and intent about what donald trump may have said to him regarding classification, it's in the head of kash patel so maybe it's worth getting that to get over the finish line. >> barbara mcquade, my control room noted you went above and beyond and made extraordinary efforts that may exceed the efforts made by this anchor when you don't have a signal. thank you for moving around so we could take in all of your wisdom and insights. we're grateful to you. barbara mcquade and frank figliuzzi thank you both so much. when we come back, the untold story of how government officials, the so called deep state, saved the country from the autocratic impulses of a twice impeached ex-president.

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♪ from holiday hills, illinois to rudolph, wisconsin. from santa claus, indiana to snowflake, arizona. from garland, texas to north pole, new york and everywhere in between. we're holiday ready with fast and reliable delivery, serving every address in america. the united states postal service. over the last two years we've heard so many near death accounts of just how close our democracy came to collapsing. under the twice impeached ex-president. but alongside that reporting we've also come to learn of the truly inspiring and heroic stories of government servants

who stood up to donald trump. people like alexander vindman, ambassador bill taylor, dr. anthony fauci. in the new book "american resistance" journalist david rothkopf gives these heroes their due. or in david's words, the book is the story of how an informal alliance of women and men working in agencies across the u.s. government, some at the highest level, some several levels down, some well known, some obscure, some republicans, some democrat, some independents came together to keep an unhinged president and his closest allies from doing irreparable damage to the united states and our planet as a whole. joining us is david rothkopf, columnist for the daily beast and author of the new book "american resistance". we have seen pieces of this in other places. we have never seen it all together. tell me how you came to write

the book and i want to read from it. >> i came to write it because i started listening to the stories. sometimes on your own show, other places, talking to these people. and it was clear to me that had it not been for these people, things could have been much, much worse. so what i wanted to do is get us past partisanship, look at public servants, celebrate public service to some extent but let them tell their stories in their own words. that's what i do here. >> this is your interview with marie yovanovitch. former ambassador yovanovitch started by chiding herself. i feel like i was so naive she said, every day i'm so there was a real conspiracy to judge mine the results of the election and our constitutional order. it was led by the president of the united states and those closest to him. as a foreign policy person, it makes me think of everything i've seen overseas.

one of the things i've written about, ukraine, sometimes ridiculed, most recently managed their presidential transitions more peacefully, and far better than we did ours. so what does that tell you about the state of our democracy? it is sobering. wow. >> yeah, it is sobering. i think one of the things you have to take away when you listen to these stories and see how people ked trump from doing things that would have been much worse than he did, whether it's starting wars or launching missiles at mexico, dropping the 101st airborne division into portland, oregon to show the strength of the u.s. government, these people were essential, because they placed the law and their oath of office and the constitution ahead of loyalty to any individual. what trump realized was that they were the guardrail that worked.

so he came up with this idea of let them fire them. you were talking about kash patel. he wanted to fill a government of yemen like kash patel. biden reversed this, but now across the republican party, there's an embrace of this idea, let's make it easier to fire people who put the rule of law first. of course, what that is a step towards is authoritarianism, a step towards making politics in the united states about an individual and about a party, and not about, you know, our traditional values as a nation, and not about the laws as they have stood for a long, long time. i want to read that section you're talking about. it's from the section about mattis. former secretary of defense james mattis told colleagues he would often get late-night calls from trump, fomenting about an issue, often threatening to carry out wildly irresponsible

actions. these included that we should immediately attack north korea during the early days of his campaign against that country. one fever nightmare derived from his obsession with the southern border, a moat full of alligators or the military shooting at people trying to cross, missiles at caravans. and sought to deploy hundreds of thousands of u.s. troops at the southern border. the military is structured, obviously a chain of command to sort of take the order from the president, who's also the commander in chief. it is so hard to glean this kind of insight as to what most senior military officials went through. what you put together in your account about mattis is staggering, stunning, and feels

we still haven't emptied out of his military. >> absolutely true. i think trump tried to use the military as a prop, and he sought to do it in a way that ran counter to everything the military has been about since the beginning of the republic. he wanted to politicize it, and wanted to do incredibly irresponsible things with the most powerful force that exists on earth. these military officers had to overcome the natural tendency to say "yes, sir" and go to a next level, where they're not allowed to follow illegal orders, and they can provide advice to steer the president away. when mattis and others would get these calls, you know, sometimes it would be in the middle of the night, the response would be, hmm, interesting idea, mr. president, let's discuss that tomorrow over lunch. sometimes it took a lot more than just delaying and

deferring. it took cabinet secretaries and others working together to ensure that the law was followed, and the national interests were protected. it was a constant struggle from day one until the day he left office. >> it's really important incredible new book, called the american resistance, inside story of how the deep state saved the nation. congrats on the book, david. >> thank you, nicole. we'll be right back. , nicol we'll be right back. ♪ well, the stock is bubbling in the pot ♪ ♪ just till they taste what we've got ♪ [ tires squeal, crash ] when owning a small business gets real, progressive gets you right back to living the dream. now, where were we? [ cheering ] two new ihop lunch and dinner menu items

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tonight, when president joe biden delivers a primetime address on democracy, first lady dr. jill biden will not be there. she'll be 140 miles northeast at citizen park in philadelphia, one of the 45,000 fans on hand for tonight's game for the world series. dr. biden phillies could take a commanding lead, but now you probably know he tied five home runs en route to a 7-0 victory last night. dr. biden, who grew up rooting for the phillies, she's also the official representative of the white house's cancer moon shot initiative. according to a statement from the white house, she'll join players, umpires, coaches and fans in the annual game 4 tradition of honoring those protected by cancer.

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