i think you pinpointed the state where they're nervous about, nevada, but they are also extremely nervous about georgia, too, shocked and nerve by georgia. what they have is seen is herschel walker, even amid the controversial stories has been doing better and is poised to best rafael warnock. i think there's been some happiness, i suppose, you can say that fetterman had weathered that shaky debate performance. they feel like things are looking good, including in the early voting data. although that's potentially fools gold. they feel good about pennsylvania, where they're freaking out a little bit is, as you know, nevada and georgia. >> we should note last time around the senate runoff in georgia wasn't until january. this time if it happens, it will be in december. timetable, he didn't wear a tie, we'll forgive him, "politico's" sam stein, thank you for being with us as always.

thank you for getting up "way too early" on this friday morning. "morning joe" starts right now. there's too much political violence. there's too much intimidation. there are more than 300 election deniers on the republican tickets this year for state, federal, and local government. i mean, this is really serious stuff. if a republican nominee for governor in the state of wisconsin wins, here's what he said. he said, if i win, my party will never lose another election in wisconsin. he's either a prophet or he plans on doing something about election law. >> that was presidential joe biden in california last night. the latest stop in his jam-packed campaign schedule in the final days before the midterms. meanwhile, big name democrats are out on the trail in traditionally blue areas in concerns that gop messaging on

crime could flip what were thought to be safe seats. plus, one of donald trump's most loyal supporters calls him out over a huge stash of campaign cash. those comments from a well known republican senator straight ahead. and in the nation's capitol, the founder of a far right group heavily involved in the capitol attack is expected to take the stand in his own defense today. we'll get you caught up on the sedition trial for the oath keepers. good morning, and welcome to "morning joe." it is friday, november 4th. good to have you all with us, along with joe, willie and me, we have pulitzer prize winning columnist at "the washington post," eugene robinson. former white house director under president obama, jennifer palmeri, and national political correspondent for "axios," jonathan swan. >> have you got anybody to say anything they shouldn't say out

loud. that's why we love you, man. >> nothing incredulous. >> if you can help my booking team get people to agree with interviews with me, i would be most grateful. >> they're getting nervous. >> speaking of a little more difficult, the phillies last night. i have to say, this is a fall classic. it's just a fall classic. you've got david versus goliath, and last night score went for goliath, but another great game. >> justin verlander, his first world series. first victory, he had been 0 for 7 over the course of his career. got the win last night. that was an amazing play in the 9th inning, now with the 3-2 victory, astros up three games to two with the series heading back home to houston. they've got two shots to win the world series. let's focus on the positive. those uniforms by the phillies,

the powder blue, mike schmidt, pete rose, takes you back. fantastic uniforms. and dusty baker who has been managing for 25 years and a good guy and a great manager is now one win away from his first world series. >> i would say also, if you look at history, for phillies fans, you don't have to go pack far for a reason to hope. go back to 2019, and you actually had the washington nationals going to houston, down 3-2. and the nationals took the last two games in houston and won the world series. speaking of hope, hope against hope, how are the democrats? now, listen, i understand. >> that's a stretch. >> you know, republicans, when i was a republican, we never went around -- we didn't ring our hands. we were just like, okay, let's burn everything to the ground,

salt the earth and declare victory. but democrats, they ring their hands in the best of times. and by the way, everybody, we're going to show you polls. we're going to show you happy polls. >> what? >> we're going to go through this part. >> are they really, though? >> last night, maris poll thinks you're going to enjoy, especially if you shop at aybars, are a caa agent, or go to the university of wisconsin, you're going to love these polls, or watch "morning joe." the early voting numbers in nevada, numbers look terrible for democrats. and i got to say also in florida i'm hearing so many complaints that the democratic party, the state democratic party just isn't there. there's no get out the vote. so things are spotty at best right now. you're going around to new york.

every day, the "new york post." every day, there's horrible, horrible crime stories every day on the front page of the "new york post," and people are talking about them. >> so i spent the day yesterday with kathy hochul, the governor of new york. this is a state that joe biden won by 23 points. this is a state where governor andrew cuomo ran reelection by 30 points, and she is in, like, a real fight, like maybe she's 5 points up, maybe they're tied. she's not quite sure. and this is new york, and this is an election denying republican, lee zeldin, very pro life, cheered the day that the dobbs decision came out, and it's like a real race. so i think there is no democrat right now that feels safe. you just don't know what's going on. and i was with elissa slotkin in michigan on tuesday night when she did that event with liz

cheney, and, you know, what occurred to me in comparing what i saw in michigan versus new york is i feel like these red state democrats, battleground democrats, they're more prepared for this moment than the blue state democrats. i can see, if there is this wave coming. it may be kathy hochul wins by five, six points, that's the most likely think to happen. if you haven't been making a really good argument that weaves together the economy and democracy and abortion in a way that relates to voters, you, like, are in the way slotkin has done in a real dangerous position. >> it can't be done, you can't talk about preserving democracy, inflation and crime at the same time. i would say pull a tape of josh shapiro, because that guy, man, we had him yesterday. he's doing everything at the same time. but there are issues that don't seem to be breaking democrats'

way right now. again, you never know. i'm not saying that to make anybody feel good. i'm telling you in 1998, you'll remember this, every democrat was going bill clinton has let us down and people were writing op-eds, going we get what we deserve. democrats are going to be slaughtered and everybody who's doing the postmortem before the race, and then republicans did extraordinarily well, or democrats did extraordinarily well, historically. newt gingrich was run out of town. i don't want everybody going the day after, everybody got this wrong. it's tight. every race is tight. if there's a margin of error that breaks two points as we have, the republicans way, it's going to be a massive landslide for republicans.

if there's a margin of error that breaks the democrats' way, it's going to be a huge wave for democrats. i don't want to hear everybody bitching and whining. either side could win big. vegas has their money on the republicans. that's usually smart money, and you talk to people in the field. they have their money on republicans but you don't know who's going to go out and vote. you just don't know yet. >> you don't know, and i will say to your point about josh shapiro. he was on the show yesterday, and i think so much attention has been paid to fetterman and oz in that race. people haven't seen a lot of josh shapiro. he's impressive, did exactly what jen said, weaving, abortion, democracy, the economy in, which looks to be a winning message. you're right. it's going to be different state by state. what works in pennsylvania, may not work in georgia, the money is on the house, jen knows this privately. democrats say the house is gone.

maybe they won't say it on tv all the time. they're holding out hopes that fetterman and warnock and others, keeping the senate so republicans can't run rough shot through the congress. >> we talk about josh shapiro. he is what pat buchanan would call a great political athlete. you look at democrats, i mean, republicans have horrible candidates because of donald trump, that would be 5, 10 points ahead. but for donald trump. but democrats have a couple of people like kathy hochul. she's never run statewide before at this level as governor, and so she's not going -- she's not going to, you know, be able to respond most likely as effectively on the trail. you look at katie hobbs in arizona, still one of the most confounding things to me, she seated the eire state to kari lake. your state, i'm afraid of the

microphone. i'm afraid of lights. i'm afraid to hear my own voice. i'm afraid to talk to reporters. you're kind of wondering if arizona voters might say, we're afraid for her to be our governor. in the end, the quality of the candidate matters. >> it does. and by the way, oprah supported john fetterman in pennsylvania. we heard that over the past 24 hours. here are new polls joe mentioned from marist. john fetterman is a six point lead over republican mehmet oz. in georgia, raphael warnock is up four points on herschel walker in the arizona senate race, incumbent democrat, mark kelly is up four points on blake masters. in that state's closely watched governor's race, democrat katie hobbs has a slight lead over republican kari lake. >> katie hobbs cannot be reached for comment. >> really, i mean, does she actually go out on the campaign trail and speak publicly?

>> if she doesn't think she's going to see people. >> i was there for a week, and there were no events. sometimes that happens, but she did a press conference on abortion the last day that we were there. >> what's the deal? >> i've never seen anything like this before. >> she's not, you know, she was secretary of state. she did a lot of -- you all talked to her a bunch during the recount. she did a lot of press then, but there is a real fear of engaging with kari lake, and, you know, she's very -- kari lake is very skilled. katie hobbs doesn't want to go down the rabbit hole. i think she did an interview with vaughn hillyard on msnbc, but not that strong of a candidate. people who are doing well are ones that have always been in

tough districts, tough states, had to make a tough argument. >> you know what's ironic about that, she did fight the fight in 2020. she's the secretary of state in arizona, she's one of the people who stood in the breach and in some ways saved the democracy, so for her to say now she doesn't want to go out and have that fight, it's just odd. she's already had the fight. she can clearly make the case against kari lake about at least the democracy piece of this. >> you can explain to people firsthand, and we'll get to these polls, by the way, for our friend about getting ready to go to aybars, but we're going to talk about the polls. we're going to wallow around in them for a little bit. >> knows were good -- those were good polls. >> for those of us that follow politics all the time, it's hard to imagine that people aren't as focused and read in as we are. but i remember being a very very

conservative young guy, having a very liberal person knock on the door. i was like 23, 24, you know, had my reagan bush, '84 hat on. >> i had a reagan/bush '84 sticker. >> they had it for a different reason. >> hers was irony. >> that's how i was back then. >> she knocks on the door, and i'm like, it's so and so, i won't say her name. she's so liberal. how are you doing, she handed me a flier. is there any issue you care about? no, and i'm sure when she left, this guy wasn't polite. i voted for her. you know why, she showed up and that's the lesson i took into my campaign. i knocked on 10,000 doors. i planted yard signs. by the time the election came along, people knew me.

they saw me, they knew i wanted it. i had so many people saying, you know, you may be crazy, i hope you're not crazy, but i know you're going to try and i appreciate you coming and knocking on my door, so a lot of people don't understand how candidates like kari lake. she shows up, people see her, five, six, seven times, they go, yeah, we know, she's sounding crazy right now, but this woman is going to fight for us. and please, i don't need lectures, i'm trying to explain how this works. voters think that way. if you show up, if you act like you care, it makes a difference. they remember that going into the voting booth. katie hobbs has not shown up. >> the people who don't believe what you just said are democratic campaign consultants. they're the ones that think that, don't worry about it, the polling is fine. you're up a point for katie hobbs, and abortion is still resonating with people, and if you say something that gets in the way of that, that's a problem, and if you put yourself in a situation that you might

get challenged, that's a problem. when i was in arizona, i saw kari lake showed up everywhere. first of all, she's got a way of weaving conspiracy theories into cogent argument that doesn't sound crazy but also she's there and she's good. on the democratic side, fetterman is that person, right, he goes to every county, every vote. >> great motto. >> josh shapiro, he goes to every county, all the red parts of pennsylvania, and when i was in pennsylvania last week, you know, i was in pittsburgh, it's democratic leaning, but it's not manhattan. people love john fetter manl. -- fetterman. white guy, 60s, retired, i would have thought. >> he's traveled all over the state before that. and he's traveled after that,

and he's shown up. people are like, oh, really, wait a second, he's had a stroke. he's obviously struggling communicating but he's showing up and oz isn't showing up. >> oz does not. >> that actually plays in fetterman's advantage even better. >> we want to bring eugene robinson and we have senate candidate tim ryan coming up in a few minutes. we need to jump to another story. there are concerns about rising tensions in the korean peninsula right now. south korea's military says it detected about 180 north korean war planes flying north of the military border overnight. let's bring in foreign correspondent, raf sanchez from seoul. what more do we know? >> reporter: over the last two days it was missiles, and today it's military air craft, a fresh escalation from the north. south korea says it scrambled 80 fighter aircraft of its own,

including fifth generation f-35 stealth fighters in response to what it said was 180 north korean aircraft fly-ins north of the military border. now, mika, there are 100 american air force pilots currently taking part in these very large scale military drills with the south koreans. those pilots were put on alert in case this did lead to an actual shooting event. they were not scrambled. there was no shooting in the end, but mika, this is a time of extremely high tensions. kim jong un has fired a record 29 missiles this week so far. the most worrying of which is an intercontinental ballistic missile fired yesterday. a south korean government official telling nbc news they believe it was a hwasong-17. it has a range of 9,000 miles. guys, it in theory could hit anywhere in the united states.

the missile that they fired yesterday appears to have failed. it looked like it fell into the sea of japan, but they have successfully tested that kind of long range missile in the past. the big question here is whether the north koreans in some flurry of missile tests are gearing up for yet another nuclear. if they do it would be the first nuclear test in five years, since 2017. kim jong un halted the tests ahead of the infamous meetings with donald trump in 2018, but guys, there is basically no diplomacy at this point between the biden administration and north korea. and so we are seeing just escalation after escalation from north korea with the possibility of a nuclear test at some point to come. >> nbc's raf sanchez reporting live from seoul, thank you very much for that report. >> and you know north korea has tried to supply the russians are some military equipment. it's hard not to look at this

and go, they're trying to distract from the fact that russia is just getting slaughtered on the battlefield. they're in full retreat. and i'm wondering if they really do -- does the north korean air force want to scramble with like f-35s and u.s. pilots? let's see. no, they don't. so we'll see how much more they do to try to distract the world's attention. but gene robinson, our attention not distracted from this political campaign, unless of course there is a nuclear test, and then we may have to break it again. but when you look at these polls right now, the marist polls that came out last night, all of them breaking in the democrats' direction. we'll have to see how the polls go this weekend. if they continue in this direction, that will be good late breaking news for democrats. things often break the final weekend, but yesterday, there were four polls out in the georgia senate race.

two showed warnock looking good. two showed walker looking good. this is a toss up, isn't it? >> yeah, that race looks like a toss up, and it looks like it's going to go to a runoff, so we're not done with georgia, i fear. it looks unlikely that either is going to clear the 50% threshold. but we'll see. i've wrote a couple of weeks ago that i thought this was some really unpredictable cycle. one that, yes, could really break one way or the other, as we get to the end. you do kind of look what, you know, watch what they do, not what they say, and you saw -- yesterday you saw democrats defending democrats who theoretically ought to have big leads, defending them in a state like new york, defending hochul. i think hillary clinton was out and vice president harris was

out, and so that's sort of one data point. the other data point, though, is, you know, early voting totals look bad for democrats in some states and great for democrats in other states. and so this is, again, a tough cycle. i do advise democrats to, you know, to get off the ledge, you know. this is a time when the sort of democratic national support is worried, and fretting and rather than worrying and fretting, get out the vote, and this is a midterm election. midterm elections are decided by who gets their voters out, period. it's not a presidential year. you don't have that drag pulling people to the polls. if you've got the right get out

the vote operation and you put it in motion, you know, if you're going to the polls and doing all the other things you ought to be doing, then you don't need to be on the ledge even though the elections is going to be close. >> gene robinson's message to democrats in america, stop bedwetting, start voting. >> i don't think he said that. >> all right. get out of the way. get into the voting booth. >> paraphrasing barack obama, don't boo, vote. jonathan swan, what's the sense in washington about where all of this is heading? we can talk about all of these polls, we can talk about what may or may not happen. but there is an assumption that the house is going to republicans. republicans have already promised on day one they will start impeachment hearings. what could washington look like for the next two to four years? >> well, the margin matters for a start. people are watching very closely assuming, and again, i take

joe's point very seriously, don't assume anything, but if you take the house going to republicans, it matters whether kevin mccarthy has a tight majority or a big one. if he has a small majority, just a functioning of a government standpoint, that's the worst possible outcome. it means he's basically going to be dragged around by the far right of his conference, and anytime -- forget any type of compromise, no matter what the majority is, it's total gridlock. i'm talking passing government funding bills, the debt ceiling, they are going to be making unrealistic demands of kevin mccarthy, and each time one of these come up, using that to damage him and weaken him. that's one thing people are watching. there could be volatility there. what they'll see if the republicans take the majority, it will cast into bright light the new republican party, and

what i mean by that is not all the obvious things that people have seen with donald trump, you know, protectionist on trade, inching towards isolationism on foreign policy. i'm talking about the attitude towards corporate america. there's been a fundamental shift in the party. it's not secret, kevin mccarthy has told me on the record, if he's the speaker, he will not take a meeting with the chamber of commerce. the leading representative, the lobby group for corporate america will not be able to get a meeting with kevin mccarthy. he's requesting they replace their entire leadership team, and the view of house republicans is basically, again, this is not my point of view, this is what i'm trying to channel you. it's we protected you guys for years in corporate america, we cut your taxes, fought the trial lawyers, and you turned around

and on every issue you sided with democrats, immigration, whatever. their view is, you know, middle finger, basically, not only are we not going to protect you anymore, we're going to actively look for opportunities to harm you, and the ron desantis play book in florida that is a brie con of what they want to do on the hill. the oversight is just going to be a star chamber. you're going to have people like larry fink in black rock, hand on the bible, you know, ripping him to pieces over his support for esg. i mean, you're just going to see really aggressive and antagonistic, and hostile oversight towards the business community. so those are some of the things i'm watching.

but, you know, there's a lot more to it. >> well, this is such a critical insight, jonathan, because first of all, when republicans had majority of 30 or so when i was there, things, regular order ran pretty smoothly. when it went down to ten or eleven crazy people like me, suddenly they had to go -- every spending bill, there were 11 of us, even spending bill, they had to, like, the guys on the appropriations committee and women would have to come to us and explain, we can balance the budget in seven years, and you freshmen are you okay with this. it was horrifying to them. and then after '98 when it went down to four, that's when we just drove newt gingrich out of town. the irony for the majority of

republicans in the house, the more rational it will be, but if you have a majority of three, four, five, six, that's where you're going to have the four, five or six most radical people literally controlling everything that happens, and so that's a nightmare. and as far as, willie, as far as this like, they're not going to talk to the chamber of commerce, these are the most triggered snowflakes i have ever seen in my life. they care more about the social issues that will get them 300 likes on twitter and facebook, they care more about that than legislation that would help small business owners and entrepreneurs back in their district. ron desantis, for instance, deciding that he's going to take away, you know, a million dollar package to help the rays and the

city of tampa because they tweeted something out where they were thinking about the kids who got slaughtered in uvalde. >> gun violence. >> so he goes after the baseball team in florida, the favorite baseball team in florida, goes after mickey mouse in florida. goes after cruises. and, yeah, this plays well to the sliver of snowflakes who are easily triggered by these just phony issues and most of them for the most part are phony issues compared to what working class americans and middle class americans need to get their jobs. but this is where the national party has done. this does not end well for them. >> the party of business won't take a meeting with the head of the u.s. chamber of commerce. what would reagan/bush think about that? correct me if i'm wrong, it was

because the chamber of commerce endorsed a couple of democratic candidates last go around, is that the reason he won't take a meeting. >> 23 democrats, that was it. and, you know, the republican study committee, which as joe knows, biggest caucus of house conservatives, they basically had a meeting which i reported on a couple of months ago, one member after the other, ranting about how they have gone woke, and, you know, i mean, just, it was astonishing, truly astonishing. >> okay. on that note. >> they're for free markets, right, until a ceo decides -- >> i like his laugh. >> and the board decides, we're going to make this move because we think it's best for our company, we think it's best for our business. and this is just like, again, talking about ron desantis, like, this guy is not a conservative. he's an authoritarian want to be when he starts telling cruise lines no, you can't do that

because you think that will keep your customers safer, and allow you to keep the cruise ships going, so you can make money. or tell small business owners what they can't do in their own stores. i mean, it's crazy, but that's what this republican party is now. >> these businesses are responding to what their consumers want, right? >> right. >> the consumers may want them, you know, in the case of tampa bay rays to speak out about a school shooting, it's probably something that tampa bay fans are happy with. the thing that i worry about with business because they are worried about, they don't want to get dragged into a lot of cultural fights. they don't know what to do about disney. we're going to need them when elections are denied. we're going to need them to speak out when facts are not adhered to by, you know, either by republican candidates or by the republican house caucus. and they are going to, you know, they're going to be right back in the middle of this, like,

political fight. that they don't want to be. but, like, they need truth to matter in order to operate in the world. >> we have a lot ahead on that. wait until you hear what senator ron johnson said. and jonathan swan, i like your crazy laugh, it's literally crazy. >> it's actually genetic. it's really embarrassing. it's high pitched. >> it's like the joker, i love it. >> it's crazy. >> stay where you are, please. >> mika wants to hear you laugh again. >> we have a packed show. we'll be joined by two democratic senate candidates, tim ryan of ohio, and val demings of florida ahead of next week's midterm election -- >> what did ron johnson say? >> you just wait, it's excruciating. >> it's like the guy who had rocks in his head. former president trump gets called out by member of his own party for not spending more money to help some of the candidates he endorsed this election cycle. also this morning, president biden's message to voters in new mexico and california last

night, we'll take a look at those new remarks. and oath keepers founder, stewart rhodes expected to take the stand today in the seditious conspiracy trial against him and four other members of the far right group. >> did you hear what he said about nancy pelosi, wanted to hang her from a lamp post, i think, was that him? >> you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. 're watchin joe. we'll be right back. ever wonder why they call it the american dream... and not the american goal? derek jeter! ...or plan? maybe it's because in drea, you can do anything. in dreams... you can hold your entire world in the palm of your hand. and turn time inside out...

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midterm election in his state. it comes after a top elections official in milwaukee was fired this week amid allegations she fraudulently requested military ballots and sent them to a republican lawmaker known for amplifying false claims about the 2020 election. johnson brought up those allegations yesterday when asked whether he would accept the results of tuesday's vote. take a look. >> do you commit to accepting the results of tuesday's election? >> i sure hope i can, but i can't predict what the democrats might have planned. it sure seems like there's an awful lot of, in the past, a lot of attempt on the part of democrats to make it easier to cheat. we want to make it easy to vote, but hard to cheat. >> is that essentially it depends on what you see. >> it has to. we'll see how this plays out. i'm shocked that a democratic election official was sending out military ballots, you know, fraudulently, that's a little shocking. >> so here we are, mike

barnicle, welcome to the table. so here we are. i think we just have to, you know, our hair can't be on fire. we just have to identify people for what they are. ron johnson is anti-democratic. ron johnson, he's an illiberal, and just like orban, right, he'll accept elections if he wins those elections. he won't accept elections if the people vote against him. so, listen, again, no need to scream and yell, let's just put ron johnson down, let's write it down. he doesn't have faith in american democracy, he will undermine madisonian democracy if it gets in his way of accumulating more power. this is all black and white. we need to just keep that list on hand and understand ron

johnson considers american democracy, considers madisonian democracy, considers the constitution of the united states an irritant, that gets in his path to power if he doesn't win. >> consider the cultural difficulty involved in this. this is like contagion. ron johnson is not going to accept the results of the election, right, so there's no needs for kids in wisconsin to accept the results of a soccer match, or baseball. they cheated, we win. it's out there. there's a contagion, a virus, an infection in the political system that begins at the top. it will definitely circulate right down to the lives of ordinary people every day. >> it also has to be said that it bends the mine. the united states senator to participated in the attempted coup against the government in 2020, trying to grab the high ground on election integrity. he's the one who's going to be watching out for the vote, if it

doesn't go his way, they wheat -- they cheated. you can feel it eroding things just a little bit more. when you say it again and again and again, it starts to seep into people's minds, and it seeds the ground for, if i lose, it was because the other side cheated. >> and jonathan swan, we have republican candidates all across, i love the what aboutism, there's no whataboutism, hillary clinton, she didn't accept, yes, she did. hillary clinton conceded like the morning after. it wasn't easy for her. but she conceded, there's no whataboutism, you have an entire party from wisconsin to arizona saying we're not going to accept the results if we don't win. >> i remember vividly the summer of 2020 interviewing donald trump, and i said to him on camera, you have not committed to accepting the results of the

election, what does that look like, and the first thing out of his mouth, he says, well, hillary clinton hasn't -- and i said, she conceded on election night, what are you going on about. oh, well, she complained about russia. okay. she conceded on election night. and so, you know, what's different is this time around, like, i broke a story this morning which has lots of new internal e-mails that we have obtained between trump lawyers, between the dates of december 30, 2020, and january the 7th, and even on the night of january 6th when the capitol had been ransacked, police are trying to secure the capitol. congress is trying to get back and vote, trump himself was on the phone to his key lawyer, cleta mitchell, talking about the georgia lawsuits that they were trying to pursue to overturn the election in georgia. so they're committed to this. it failed in 2020, really

because they were caught flat footed, and sort of ended up being a debacle of incompetence. what's happened since then is resources, energy, and planning has gone into it. >> that's right. >> and they're now dead serious about it, and they're organized and cleta mitchell, the person i mentioned on these e-mails, she spent the past 18 months training republican conservative activists to be election monitors, police stations and various other places in the midterms, so this is ongoing, but it's intensifying. it's intensifying. >> and by the way, the documents are out there. they're all out there. the texts are out there. it was a conspiracy, a conspiracy that's very well documented. they were trying to steal an american presidential election, and we're figuring out, asking each other, how do we steal this

election. how do we -- and everybody around trump tried to stop him from doing it. he went outside, tried to steal the election, and they have been using the last two years to do it more effectively in 2024. donald trump loses again if he runs. that's what donald trump does, he loses. he really does. i mean, the stakes, oh, no. he went bust with the stakes. everything. everything's gone bust. everything's gone bankrupt with donald trump. he lost the popular vote both times. he squeaked in, won one time, he lost the house, he lost the senate, he lost the presidency in 2020. he's going to lose again, and he knows, he knows that he's just a loser. he loses all the time. so if you're a loser, and you just don't know how to win elections, and you're donald trump, then you try to figure out how to steal elections and

then you find people who have rocks in their head that happen to be senators from wisconsin who will do the same thing, who will parrot you and you get barack obama supporters from arizona who were on tv for a very long time but who were so desperate, so desperate to stay in the spotlight, they'll do it too. and so it's spreading across the country, and again, no need to pull our hair out. we need to write it down. we need to understand what they're doing, and we, we being people who actually love this country and respect madisonian democracy, and wake up and thank god we're part of the american experiment. we, republicans, independents, and democrats who love this country more than we love our political parties, we have to push back against it, and we will. let's bring in democratic candidate for u.s. senate in ohio, congressman tim ryan. hey, tim. >> nice sweat shift.

>> i'm glad you dressed up for us. >> this guy knows how to run. i heard earlier he walked out in a michigan sweatshirt, and his staff said, why don't you -- no, hey, congressman, let me ask you a question. straightforward. if you lose this election, will you accept the results? >> oh, of course i will but that's not what's going to happen. you got to do what you got to do, you got to keep the country together. so your race, i got to say, it is so strange, i look at polls, it's close. you look at your campaign, you have run a great campaign. i think most people think you have run, people i talked to think you have run one of the best campaigns in america this year, if not the best along with josh shapiro for a democrat. of course, that's not saying a whole lot the way democrats have been running this year. you have run a great campaign. >> thanks. >> and yet, the national party,

i just don't ever hear about it. it's always an afterthought, we're worried about georgia and pennsylvania. i don't get it, are some people going to be shocked on wednesday morning? >> it's going to be the beauty of the win. you had the national democrats who have a long standing record of not having a great valley. not making the investments needed to ignore this race. and we win. and we're going to win. we have a lot of support from organized labor that understands what's going on on the ground here in ohio. we've got donations from all 88 counties. we have 425,000 donors from across the country who understand we have a real chance to win this thing, and i'm telling you on the ground, and, joe, you've done this yourself, there's the polls and there's what you hear on the ground. you go to rural ohio where donald trump would have had a sign every 50 feet. there's a j.d. vance sign every

10 miles. we're in these counties. we have republican crossover support. we have the building and construction trades, their rank and file folks are coming our way in droves. like, this is going to be a shocker only to those people who live in the echo chamber in washington, d.c. >> congressman, you know i'm a michigan guy, i'll excuse the sweatshirt as long as the game turns out the right way this year. but what are your conversations like with the dnc, with national democrats when you point out that, look, i'm beating this guy, i could use a little money, and you haven't gotten the funds and support that really would definitively put you over the top, what are those conversations like? >> i haven't had one of these conversations in the last few months. like i'm not going to sit here

and beg somebody to be able to see what's happening here on the ground. i'm just not going to do it. we have our supporters, like i said, organized labor has been huge here. we've got our low dollar donors, and anybody that wants to chip in, timforoh.com. if they want to be part of shocking the world, like we have our team, we show up in portsmouth, ohio, on a tuesday at noon, and there's 60, 70, 80 people there. if you would have done that five or ten years ago, you could have had the meeting in a phone booth. we are bringing back the old school democrats who like the fact that i'm focused on economic issues, that we're not focused on the culture wars, that we're talking act manufacturing and building things agai and trade and the economic instability in these regions that we want to reinvest back into those communities and we have been doing it for 18 months. look, our dog, our family dog has been in lima, ohio, more

times than j.d. vance has. that's how hard we have been campaigning over the last 18 months. >> what kind of dog? >> it's our oldest son's german shepherd, and honest to god, he has been in lime, ohio, more than j.d. vance. >> dog's name. >> that's probably when you're running for the united states senate. >> zoe. >> congressman, i won't make you answer this, i'll point out the state of the vance campaign. he accused you on fox, this is a quote last night of the following, that you're planning on flooding america with illegal aliens and using american tax dollars to fund gender reassignment dollars for those aliens. that's a quote. as many people point out, that's a direct ripoff from party on succession when they were mock ing that rhetoric. you did go in and do a town hall on fox news. you talked about the economy and the state of the democracy, and you got some boos for things you

said, but you stood your ground and said you can watch the tape we know what happened on that day is cops were beaten up. let's talk about some of those voters you went on fox news to speak to. some of the republicans who may have voted for donald trump twice, and don't want to go along with j.d. vance. >> we had a lot of people telling us, don't do the fox news town hall, you shouldn't go there, it's not going to be on the level. we knew that. it's an opportunity. i'm half irish, there's the old irish saying, is this a private fight or can anyone get into it. we were down with going in there, and the reality is you have that group of people that, you know, they're election deniers, they're continuing to boo at people who say january 6th really happened. all of the insanity, the book banning, the national abortion ban, like that segment, but there are a lot of good people who may have voted for trump for

other reasons. but aren't into all of that other stuff. and i want to make sure that we get a chance for them to -- they get a chance to hear my message. i am not trying to further bring more hate into this country. more anger, more fear. we need more love. we need more compassion. we need more concern for each other, and those people are looking for a place to go. and your previous segment where you were talking about the u.s. chamber of commerce. i have tremendous support from workers. there's no way, you can't work with the business community. you can be hostile to greed, you can be hostile to concentration of wealth. you can be hostile to income inequality. you can't be hostile to business. how are we going to develop the technologies to reverse climate change, how are we going to build the industries of the future if we're not working with the business community, and i want those people to know that. maybe we agree five out of ten times, my door is going to be open whether you vote for me or not, and you have to go there.

and we've got more commentary about having the guts to go into that place, you know, going into the lion's den, you score points with people because you got guts. and you stand your ground. so it was a character test more than it was about any particular issue, and we came out of there, you know, pretty strong and j.d. vance, i mean, the questions they were asking him, they were like, j.d., we've got a tough one for you, how do you spell "j.d.," oh, my god, i'm watching him go. it's insane. >> congressman, it's jen palmieri, i'm coming out to see you on monday. if you win, this means republicans are voting for you, and i was out there a couple of weeks ago, and i talked to some republicans who are going to do that. is it a gut level thing with them, this guy is ohio, this guy is for me or is there issues that they feel like the republicans are not answering, but what is it people say when republicans say they're willing to support you, what's it about?

>> they're good people, you know, they're good people, and they watch j.d. vance, and he's running around with marjorie taylor greene, he brought in ted cruz, he brought in lindsey graham, he's running around with donald trump jr., and we know what donald trump jr. was posting after mr. pelosi had that tragedy happen to him. and i think average ohioans who may be a moderate republican are looking at this guy, and they're saying no way, no way are you going to spend the next six years in the united states senate representing ohio running around with donald trump jr. who has zero class, zero grace, right, zero compassion, torching the joint, and they're just not going to do it. i'm telling you, like it could be a moderate republican in suburban columbus who's also concerned about choice and gun safety and the environment and these other things, but it's also working class folks down the ohio river who may have

voted for trump a couple of times, maybe republican, they're not into the whole culture war thing, they like me, this guy is not our people. we need an ass kicker, not an ass kisser, they know the whole thing with donald trump. they watched what happened in youngstown, when trump emasculated the guy on stage in youngstown and ten minutes later he gets on the stage, goes to the microphone, and says aren't we having a great time here tonight. that's not ohio. >> mike, it's fascinating that people like j.d. vance are always talking about the war on masculinity, and the very people who talk about that the most are the ones who donald trump emasculates. like the war on their own masculinity comes from donald trump. and again, it's fascinating, these ivy league boys that are so concerned about their masculinity. i don't know if just the southern state school thing.

>> it's projecting. >> i don't know. >> it's projection. i think you shouldn't talk about it. >> i guess if you're an ivy league boy, and you're going around and letting this failed reality tv show host emasculate you in front of your wife and family, and your community, and your entire state, and the nation, and then you go thank you, sir, please emasculate me again, like j.d. does, i guess you probably do question your masculinity and think about a war on masculinity. as for willie and me, we don't go to bed at night wondering about our masculinity. unlike j.d. and the other ivy league boys. >> the interesting thing about the trump ass kicking thing with j.d. vance -- >> thank you, sir, this is fun. you emasculated me in front of my wife and family. >> if made you wonder, joe, to

the point you made, you do wonder how many times someone has gone up to him in a schoolyard, give me your lunch kid, hand it over. tim ryan of ohio, let's get back to lima and portsmouth. >> and zoe. >> you were talking about those few towns a few moments ago. and zoe. you have been on the ballot many times in ohio, all successful. this time around, as you go around the state of ohio, can you compare the sense of community that existed when you first ran for congress to the sense of community that's out there today. and i'm talking specifically about towns and cities where you could belong to the other party and you could argue about politics but you had a sense of the community that you belonged to. is it still as strong? is it weakened and if it has, what do you think is going on? >> i still think, you know, when

you go to these install towns, you know, it's high school football. it's still the vfws, it's still a strong community. these are still strong communities. they've had so many challenges with opioids and heroin, and j.d. vance, they have a fake opioid charity, and they don't want him to rebuild the community. there's an exhaustion, and i had a guy grab me at the cincinnati bengals tailgate, and he came up to me, and mayor bibb, the mayor of cleveland. please win, i don't want to have to hate my neighbor anymore. i think that's where people are. this is where the country wants a move, and i think j.d. vance and ron johnson, they didn't get the memo. they just didn't get the memo. people are exhausted. i keep talking about bringing the exhausted majority together,

democrats, republicans, and independents, and you can feel it in the smaller communities. they want to come together. they want to have thanksgiving dinner together. they don't want to talk about politics all the time. they want to talk about sports and their kids and families and what they can do in the community. this is the message we're giving to people. we need help in the final stretch, timforoh.com. please come in, chip in a few bucks for us, we are going to absolutely shock the world on this one. >> i'm sorry, my ear piece went out. what address is that again? >> that's timforoh.com, joe, and you can chip in a few bucks to help us fuel this campaign. >> might be able to buy him a suit, too. >> i don't want to buy him a suit. you know, you're so right, congressman, you know, and i don't say this jokingly, you talk about football and friday nights and everything like that, you know, people like some new civil war poll came out, 88% of

americans think we're going to have -- really, really, i'll tell you what 88% of americans are thinking about, they're thinking about the kids. they're thinking about, you know, how their grades are doing. they're hoping their midterm grades are doing okay. they want to go to a football game. high school football game on friday night. they want to cook out on saturday, watching college football. of course talking about people like you and me. i mean, i don't know if this is sports related but in ohio, in northwest florida, you know, and on sunday, they're going to go to church. they're going to watch football. they want to spend time with their kids. they don't want to -- >> they're normal people. >> they don't want to hang out with stewart rhodes and these freaks saying the world is coming to an end and let's start a civil war. no, no. that's not where they are. democrats and independents, that's not where they are.

it's just radical. they want to live their lives. >> yeah. >> and they're exhausted. >> people want community. you can go to those high school football games. you can go to a concert, you go to a college football game. right, people want community. they want to come together, and they're exhausted that they can't just let all of this stuff go because it keeps getting stoked by the j.d. vances of the world and the donald trump jr.s of the world and the donald trumps of the world, and people are just tired of it. they want to come together. they want to care about each other. they want a common purpose, a common mission, and that's what we're doing, getting back to being americans and ohioans, and then members of their family, members of their church, members of their community and then break into your democrat, republican positions. >> candidate for u.s. senate, tim ryan, thank you very much for coming on the show this morning. we'll see where zoe is going

next. >> and jonathan swan, americans also, they want to hear jonathan swan laugh. >> can you crack a joke, he says it's genetic. >> he doesn't do it on command. >> when it's controlled and it's not that funny, i can keep it low pitched, but when you really get me, it's a squeal. it's a primal squeal. >> you keep that to yourself. >> i like it. it's funny. >> final thoughts, jonathan swan, what are you looking at over the next four or five days? >> i'm really looking at the margin in the house, and also i think new york is really going to be a bellwether, i mean, the zeldin race is tightening, and i'm hearing from democrats who are close to schumer and other democrats who have watched that race closely, and are getting increasingly alarmed at what they're seeing with the early numbers in new york. and the two states i have been fixated on are arizona and pennsylvania.

you have talked about election deniers. we know as certain as you could possibly be, if those slates get elected on the republican side, if there's any outcome in 2024 besides a republican victory, they're going to use every tool in their tool kit, hard power and soft power to change that result. i think those two races are just so consequential from that standpoint. >> elissa slotkin, you were going to say. >> i mean, it's like i'm looking to see, you know, i don't know what's going to happen. what's the kind of democrat that can survive this race, like this year, so what's the kind of democrat, you know, elissa slotkin, gretchen whitmer, what have they been doing not just in the last six weeks, but years that they can create the environment to win. >> you think whitmer survives? >> i think she's going to survive. but who knows. there's no democrat that feels safe.

>> jen palmieri and jonathan swan, thank you very much for coming on this morning. we appreciate it. just ahead we're going to speak with another nominee for u.s. senate, congresswoman val demings will join us to talk about her bid to oust incumbent marco rubio from his florida senate seat. plus, bob woodward will join us with his new recordings from his interviews with former president trump. he's releasing those. it's definitely something he's never done before, but felt needed to be done in this case. but first, president joe biden campaigned in new mexico yesterday in albuquerque, the president focused largely on the issue of the economy and the danger he says it posed by the republican agenda. headline in the "new york times," headline, gop signals plan to shrink social security. they're saying it out loud. congressional republicans eyeing

midterm election victory that could hand them control of the house and senate embraced plans to reduce spending on social security and medicare, cutting benefits for retirees and raising retirement age. they're not even hiding it. how many of you have any student debt? say good-bye. say good-bye. take a look at who's complaining. this i find fascinating, this i find fascinating. the people who are complaining, the maga republicans who sit in congress had hundreds of thousands of dollars, even millions of dollars in pandemic relief forgiven, but they're now attacking middle class americans and student relief programs. who the hell do they think they are. let's take a look at the facts when i took office, this economy was in ruins. my predecessor is the first president since herbert hoover who actually lost more jobs, had fewer jobs when he left than

when he came in. unemployment is at 6.4%. people were hurting. hundreds of thousands of small businesses in your state and all across america, they had closed. today we're in a much better place, although people are still hurting. we've got more to do. 10 million jobs created since i took office. unemployment rate is 3.5%. the lowest it's been in 50 years. joining our conversation as we cross into the top of a new hour. the author of the run away best seller, jonathan lemire, and the host of on brand with donny deutsch podcast, former chief of staff for the dccc, adrienne elrod, and former white house press secretary jen psaki, an msnbc host, eugene robinson with joe, mika and me as well. jen, i'll start with you, listening to the president there

in albuquerque last night. what's your sense of the way he's being deployed here? we have heard from the former president, barack obama, hillary clinton was out last night in support of governor hochul here in the state of new york, what's the feeling, the sense among democrats about where this may be headed on tuesday? >> i think right now we're in the phase of use every tool at your disposal. that includes the president, the former president, former senator, former secretary of hillary clinton because the entire ball game, i'm using ball game because i know you use that analogy, there you go, that's for you, willie, is about getting more of your people out than the other guy's people out, and democrats have an energize e thng it all them out. d weekend. >> as we mentioned, hillary clinton and vice president kamala harris campaigned for new york's democratic governor, kathy hochul yesterday. as governor hochul faces a

tightening race against republican challenger lee zeldin with the campaign shifting focus to the economy and crime. here is secretary clinton addressing the issue of crime. >> ads about crime every 30 seconds, right. no solutions, but just a lot of really fearful, scary pictures and scary music. i want everybody to be safe. honestly, but then a terrible crime happens in san francisco, an intruder hits an 82-year-old man in the head with a hammer who happens to be married to the speaker of the house, and the republicans joke about it. >> so there you go. and by the way, we do have an update on the condition of paul pelosi. he has been released from the hospital nearly a week after a brutal assault inside the

couple's san francisco home that you heard hillary clinton referring to. 82-year-old pelosi is recovering from surgery to repair a skull fracture after he was hit over the head with a hammer by a man who invaded their home. house speaker nancy pelosi released a statement, reading in part paul is grateful to the 911 operator, emergency responders, icu staff and the entire hospital and medical staff for their excellent and compassionate, life saving treatment he received after the violent assault in our home. she added that her husband remains under doctor's care, as he continues to progress on a long recovery. lawyers for the accused attacker, 42-year-old david depape, will be back in court today for a preliminary hearing. he faces a series of state and federal charges stemming from the attack, and, joe, back to what hillary clinton said, the fact that republicans and many of them leaders in the party,

not just donald trump jr., but senators members of congress, and other republican leaders were joking about this. >> right. >> and spreading conspiracy theories. i'm still sickened by it. our politics are truly broken. >> the republican party is truly broken. >> it is. >> let's just say what it is. >> in pieces. >> they talk about they're against crime and they're for the cops, unless of course it's the speaker of the house's husband who is hit over the head. >> the governor makes a punch line out of it. >> then they spread lies. they make political punch lines out of it. the most powerful people in the world spread the most bizarre conspiracy theories about this poor man, 82-year-old man. let's just talk about it. i'm going to be blunt. we all have parents. if you've got parents in their 80s and they fall, they just fall, that's an emergency. and that's something that you, as a child, are dealing with for

the rest of your life. this guy, i say as a child taking care of your parents. >> he's in great shape. >> you're worried about it. >> he's in great shape, but he's 82 years old. he got brutally attacked, hit in the head, had emergency surgery because of a fractured skull and the republicans and the most powerful people in the world are making fun of this guy and spreading lies. this is not our politics are broken. let's stop saying our politics are broken. the maga right is broken, there's a sickness here. mitch mcconnell spoke out about it, but not many others spoke out about it. and you look at the clip of nancy pelosi after steve scalise. nancy pelosi was practically in

tears after steve scalise was shot and she said we're all one family. there's no humanity in the republican party, no humanity at all, and this has proven it. where are these people. >> yeah. >> they're mocking paul pelosi. >> who raised them? >> the same people who in prime time mocked police officers who we want about january 6th. they want to support the blue, unless the blue is trying to save american democracy against their most freakish supporters. they want to support law enforcement unless it's the fbi who's investigating corruption at the highest level within the republican party. it's select enforcement. they only support madisonian democracy if their side wins. they only support law enforcement if their side gets a free pass. it is a sickness in the republican party. it is not a sickness in american

politics. >> yeah, that's exactly right, joe, and i remember when steve scalise was shot, and waking up and seeing that on the news and the sick feeling that i had in my stomach and one of the first things we saw after that was nancy pelosi coming forward and saying we do not stand for this. you know, we stand with steve scalise, whatever he needs, and she went into passing stronger gun control measures. but her coming out there, and making that statement, not that there was a partisan divide at the time because we were living in a different era. but it did sort of help heal, you know, bring together washington. i know mitch mcconnell put out a tweet. i know, you know, kevin mccarthy said something, but these guys should have done a press conference, enough is enough. >> with their democratic counter parts. >> like nancy pelosi did. >> a class act. that's what we needed at this time to heal from some of these fractured moments that we're having. some of these dangerous moments we're having. >> do we want this to get worse?

>> exactly. why they didn't come together, and say, let's do a press conference with our democratic leadership on this. it's a shame. that was a moment that was lost. >> grotesque. >> and joe, i know you weren't giving a campaign speech. i hope people are listening. there are ways, the big four, crime, abortion, democracy and the economy, there are ways to talk about all of them at the same time. you run in crime, you're for the police or against the police. if you're for the police, you want to vote for democrats. there are ways to talk about the economy, every person who wants to get a job right now. there are ways to talk about issues we can walk and chew gum at the same time. you can flip any single issue. what was interesting and interesting, there are democrats out there and doing that, and talk about all four issues. >> two strong performances, i mean, tim and josh shapiro yesterday. two really strong democratic

performances. >> who are running really well, especially shapiro, looks likely, take nothing for granted among democrats, he'll be the governor of pennsylvania. we're going to hear from wes moore. talking to dr. dave, three democrats doing that. it is extraordinary, jonathan, that we have to sit here and say it is bad that paul pelosi was hit over the head with a hammer, that republicans can't bring themselves to say that thing out loud because they're so worried what donald trump might think of them, when you're ted cruz or don jr. in a class by himself, these are elected officials who can't bring themselves to say the obvious, that a man being hit over the head with a hammer is bad. it all goes back to what we were talking about, if you cross donald trump, if you cross the base, you find yourself in trouble. it doesn't take a lot of courage to say that was a bad thing but they can't do that. >> in the aftermath of the scalise shooting, it wasn't just nancy pelosi, but bernie

sanders, sanders immediately said this is not who we are. we cannot stand for this. >> went to the floor of the senate. emotionally spoke about this. and we're not hearing this now. and this is a trend that has begun with trump where we have seen time and again, the refusal to condemn any piece of his base, for the most heinous acts, he might need their votes someday. donald trump was slow do disavow white supremacists, slow to disavow the proud keepers and oath keepers, qanon. in fact, he's embracing them. because as he has told people when asked about this before, they vote too. they're my supporters. and he is inherently loyal to his base. he will not alienate his base, and other republicans take their cue from trump, and they will not denounce even the most hateful and heinous acts or beliefs. >> gene, what's so fascinating is they think they're being clever. every statement about paul

pelosi is qualified. glenn youngkin, oh, yeah, it's kind of bad, but, we're going to send nancy pelosi home to be with her husband who just had his brains battered. but they do have j.d. vance going, of course it's bad, but it's the fault of the canadians on work visas who overstayed their work visas, that's what's causing chaos in america. everyone has a qualified statement, and there are even a few like kari lake who just out and out joke about an 82-year-old man getting his brains bashed in as a result of political violence. spread by donald trump. not random crime in san francisco as these republicans lie about all the time. nothing random about this crime.

nothing apolitical about this crime. this guy was a trumper. he was a maga guy. look at what he was writing before the attack. i mean, you can go back 28 years, five years, whatever you want. no, that's not what police do. they don't go, all right, matlock, come here. what happened back in 1983. no, what was he saying before the crime. what was he saying before he got the hammer and bashed a guy. he was saying the bullshit that donald trump wanted him to say, the lies about stolen election. saying that members of the press should be taken out in the street and shot if they don't spread donald trump's lies about a stolen election. this is easy. it's easy. but republicans can't do the easy thing.

they don't do the right thing. everything is always qualified because politically, their soul is barren. >> absolutely. it's just objective fact that this is not a both sides situation. we have experiment here, right, we have the two cases we can look at. we look at what happened when steve scalise was shot, and look at what happened to paul pelosi, and you see how the parties, the two parties reacted, and you come to the conclusion as was stated just now, this is not a both sides situation, the republican party is broken. the republican party has decayed into something unrecognizable, and it's not fit to govern, and i would just point out one thing to anyone who listens to that and understands that and sees that, you know, election day is

tuesday. it hasn't happened. we went and early voted the other day. if you haven't already early voted, tuesday is election day. vote. go out and vote. if you see the reality of what has happened to our politics, then do something about it. and vote if you have adult children, you know, in their 20s. and they are not regular midterm voters, talk to them. tell them to go out and vote. you know, it's very simple. nothing is written yet. tuesday is election day. use your vote. >> right. and also to your point, joe, and we've said this before, but obviously depape got his ideas from somewhere. they didn't just get in his mind out of nowhere.

zip ties. hours from now, oath keepers founder, stewart rhodes is expected to take the witness stand in his own defense at his seditious conspiracy trial. the defense began calling witnesses yesterday after federal prosecutors rested their case against rhodes and four other members of the far right militia group. all five are accused of plotting to use force to prevent joe biden from taking office as president. during the trial, prosecutors played audio comments rhodes made after the january 6th insurrection. take a listen. if he's not going toot the right thing, and he's just not going to let himself be removed illegally, should have brought rifles. >> he said hang nancy from a blanking light post, time and again, donald trump, his allies and a lot of republicans attacking, vilifying,

dehumanizing nancy pelosi. come on. it's pretty simple to figure out where this came from. >> it's explicit, they say it out loud. we know they were looking for nancy pelosi when they broke into the capitol on january 6th. it's all out there. and the argument you hear from republicans about the paul pelosi attack, this was just a deranged guy. that's the point. that's the rhetoric from qanon, amplified by donald trump or ted cruz or anyone else, the conspiracies feed them and drive them to do things like walk into a house, stand over an 82-year-old man as he lays in bed with a hammer and smash him over the head. those are the people who are vulnerable. stop doing it. but they can't bring themselves to. >> no. and i guess donny, the question is are voters going to care? at the end of the day, are voters going to care that from ron johnson in wisconsin, to

kari lake in arizona, to local officials across america, you have election deniers and you have a party other than, again, mitch mcconnell and one or two other people that are calling out this heinous violence. >> you know, we keep talking about republicans, we keep talking about democrats, and it really is up to us at this point. we're holding up a mirror at this point as far as who we are. and, you know, that's going to be the real tragedy if things don't go well and the republicans really do have a wave. you can't blame the politicians anymore. you have to blame who we are, what we have become. unfortunately, i talked to people in new york, and i'll give the arguments about democracy, yeah, but, and all they care about is their taxes and those people make me sick, the people that have to worry about putting bread and butter on their table, that's another issue. the issue is going to become, how much are people going to

care about these other issues and are there too many people with those kitchen table issues about their bread and butter that are going to say i don't have the luxury of doing that. we're going to find out who we are at this point. >> gene robinson, talk about the crime issue because there's a frustration obviously among democrats, hillary clinton and others that crime has seemed to take center stage in the last couple of weeks of the campaign. democrats seem to think that it's the republicans who are playing the media, and the media is talking about crime too much. >> an issue like crime just takes on a momentum of its own, and as a candidate, i think you have to find a way to talk about it, no one is in favor of crime. no democrat is out there taking resources away from police. in fact, they're talking about the opposite.

they're talking about, you know, effective policing. they should be talking to voters about what matters to them, and crime right now is something that matters to people in a lot of places. you know, it's a difficult thing to do because when it's being sensationalized and demagogued by the other side, you always sound like you're sort of backing up when you try to actually inject fact into the discussion, and talk about things like root causes and this and that. but you have -- so you have to address the issue and you have to address it in a way that makes people understand that you're going to try and do what you can to make them safe, and to make the streets safe, and, you know, look, it's not easy,

especially for incumbents, if you're in power, you know, and it rains, you get blamed for the rain. but, you know, you knew the job was dangerous when you took it, and that's what you have to find a way to do. >> gene robinson, thank you so much. and jen psaki, talk about crime as an issue, but also, a couple of things, so if we're closing on crime and inflation, if those are the two issues that we're closing on, it just seems to me, democrats should point out just how hypocritical republicans are on both: day don't give a damn about police officers if police officers are trying to protect the capitol and democracy. they don't give a damn about crime if it's an 82-year-old man who gets his brains bashed in. they don't give a damn about the fbi. the nation and the world's law enforcement agency if they're rooting out corruption inside the republican party and on

inflation, my god, okay, maybe biden's covid bill was a little bigger than a lot of economists would like, donald trump spent four years pre-covid, the largest deficits on record, the largest national debt on record, the biggest budget busting budgets on record, the biggest unpaid for tax cut on record. and it's not like we didn't say that on this show every day and warn republicans that inflation was coming. so the hypocrisy is just breathtaking on the republican side that they're acting like the world started on january 20th, 2021. >> right. nothing existed before it. on inflation, joe, to your point, i mean, the thing here is the democrats actually have a plan. they actually want to do things to reduce every day costs, and if you look in the republican

cup board, there's nothing there. it is true that when you're the party in power, people hold you accountable, and i think that is playing out here, but on crime, i mean, new york is such a good example. it is the issue in the governor's race, right, the issue. and i was in sean patrick maloney's district a couple of days ago, following around some canvassers and that is a place where the republicans are spending $6 million. a lot of outside groups on ads against sean patrick maloney, attacking him, saying he's terrible, letting criminals out. the thing that's insane, and we need to be clear headed is that crime has gone down in the district. it is a place where if you walk around the counties of the hudson valley, you're more worried there's going to be an errant halloween decoration hitting you than you are about hitting a criminal. it is about fear. crime is an issue in places in the country. there are a lot of places like the hudson valley where it is not. and they are scaring people by

running ads, running ads on bail reform, a lot of these ads have people of color to scare people about who may come to their white towns. that's also happening right now, and so i think it's important democrats also call that out. yes, acknowledge crime, and also call out, as you said, the hypocrisy and fear games they are playing. that is what we've seen them do for careers. >> jen is reporting from our bureau right outside an irish bog somewhere. >> i have a dramatic fog behind me, i know. >> it's just clearing up in realtime, actually. still ahead on "morning joe," "the washington post's" bob woodward is here with new sound from his interviews with former president trump including trump saying it was his genetics that made him an expert on north korea's -- >> isn't that what that goofy doctor in texas said because of his genetics.

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just buy any footlong in the app, and get one free. free monsters, free bosses, any footlong for free! this guy loves a great offer. so let's see some hustle! 33 past the hour. joining us now, associate editor of the "washington post," bob woodward, he's out with a new audio book entitled the trump tapes. bob woodward's 20 interviews with president donald trump, and it's good to have you back. >> thank you. >> yeah, let's get right to a montage that your team actually put together, bob. it's an interview that you conducted with then president trump in march 19th, 2020, eight days after covid was declared a pandemic by the world health organization, and six days after trump declared a national emergency. this has never been heard before publicly.

let's listen. >> was there a moment in all of this last two months that you said to yourself, this is the leadership test of a lifetime? >> no, part of it is the mystery, part of it is the viciousness, you know what it attacks, it attacks the lungs. >> yes. i wanted to always play it down. i still like playing it down because i don't want to create a panic. no, i don't take responsibility for this. i have nothing to do with this. it was no fault of mine, and it was no fault of anybody's. it just happened. except maybe china. >> have you ever sat down alone with him and gotten a tutorial. >> honestly, there's not a lot of time for that. it is a busy white house. >> we're getting very good marks from the governors. we're helping the governors. it's a local problem. you can't solve that federally. >> i wanted to capture the

moment when your son barron asked you about this. >> he's just turning 14, so he was 13 when he did, the white house upstairs in his bedroom, and i said it came out of china, barron, pure and simple, it came out of china. it should have been stopped, and to be honest with you, barron, they should have let it be known it was a problem two months earlier and the world wouldn't have a problem. we could have stopped it easily. >> there is just so many things to talk about there. first of all, he's criticizing china for not letting us know two months earlier, yet when he knew, he had all the information, he said it was one person coming out of china and it was taken care of, then a month later he said it was 13 people, and it was going to go away. it's just shocking. there's so many shocking things. you've got your arms around this. you have so many tapes. you have been studying it. >> here's what happened, this is

march 19th. they closed down the country six days earlier. he's laying all of this out to barron, and as you know, in reporting, things happen in chronological order. but you don't learn about them in chronological order. you go back, and i went on a six-week reporting spree after this conversation, and talked to robert o'brien, and matt pottenjer, the national security adviser. i'm in the white house asking them, and they said, oh, on january 28th, we went and gave the kind of stark warning to trump about the virus. o'brien saying, and he has confirmed this publicly, saying i told the president this will

be the biggest national security threat to your presidency. and he had been this china seven years as a "wall street journal" reporter, you know, sometimes i get shot. i was so stunned that two months before he's telling barron, oh, the chinese could have stopped it, trump could have stopped it by telling the truth. by coming out. >> this was even well before he was saying it was only one person coming in from china. >> and so you put this together. and so after the may 1st conversation with pottinger and o'brien, i have time, two months, calling pottinger at home through white house signals and saying, hey, wait a minute,

let's get all the details about this. my wife also listened to all of this for the third time, and said it's a crime. it's a constitutional crime. the president of the united states takes a solemn oath to execute the office of the president faithfully. is this faithful execution? he lied to his son. he lied to me. he lied to the public. >> let's listen to some of the interviews -- >> i'm sorry. >> i want to support what you're telling us right now, part of your interviews with o'brien and pottinger, let's listen. >> the exact phrase i used is this will be the biggest national security threat you face in your presidency. i was pretty passionate about it. >> so people in china who i reached out to and to just get an unvarnished informal take on what was going on, and what i was hearing from them is this

isn't sars 2003. this is 1918 again. i'm talking with guys on the ground saying here's the real data. as many as 50% of the cases are asymptomatic spread and therefore it's going to be impossible to screen for it. it's going to take off like wildfire. >> that's the deputy national security adviser saying this is 1918. he knew how bad it was going to be and he communicated it to the president. it struck me, bob, listening to the first response, did you look at this as a leadership test of a lifetime. he quickly says no. to many people, to his own benefit, he could have been this leader in this national moment of crisis, he could have said, it's not our fault, it's china's fault, but here's what we're going to do to get through it. and refused time and again. >> in the summer, again, this is so complicated. i said what's the plan. this is july 21st, and he said,

well, i'll have one in 104 days, and i said, 104 days, that's when the election -- this was all about the election. he concealed, he denied, and he covered up. see, this is the first -- i'm sorry, it was this week when i called you, and i said, i finally see. this is the coverup, 1.1 million people died. go play a week after pottinger and o'brien give this warning. donald trump's state of the union address said, oh, we've got this little problem in china and it's going to go away. talking to 40 million people and he'd learned that the calamity, the fire storm, the wildfire, was coming. and i'm trying to figure out why. why would he do that?

>> again, he was down playing it for the political reasons. and again, he had been told, this is 1918. >> so in the second to last interview with trump, july 21st, 2020, trump still wasn't taking responsibility for the response to coronavirus. let's take a listen. >> look, if we didn't have the virus, i was 10, 12 points, up, i was cruising to election. >> well, people are worried about the virus. >> i know that, bob, but the virus has nothing to do with me. it's not my problem. >> no, it does -- >> it was china. it's not me. >> okay. i know, but you have the problem, and i know you've talked to lindsey and lots of people about this, and the question is what's the plan, how are you going to lead? >> and, bob, i mean, the audio tape here crystallizes what we heard all yearlong, down playing it, we're rounding the corner.

he wouldn't wear a mask. wouldn't endorse basic public health measures, he was fearful he would lose because the virus was crashing the economy. as you spoke to him here, and as you have gone back to review it, there's panic in his voice. he knows he has no political solution. he's been able to get out of trouble, wish away things, and this time, wouldn't happen. >> yes, but see we didn't know for a long time about the 28th warning. i mean, when we say -- when pottinger is telling him, it's 1918 spanish flu pandemic, and he told trump, 650,000 people died, well, now we're at almost twice that. this is, you know, i would love to take all of this and put it together and take it to mitch mcconnell and say, listen to

this. this is your president, and is this the faithful execution of the office of the president? i mean, it is beyond belief. i'm sorry to be so exercised about it, but, you know, you put these things together. we all tried to. and when it is a cold case, a cold case, he got the warning, and for month after month denial, denial, coverup. >> and again, we had the play by play, the dates when he was warned. he was warned well ahead of time, but we hear on these tapes with bob, we hear on these tapes, donald trump admitting that he actually knew about it earlier and also that he wasn't going to do anything about it for political reasons. he wanted to downplay it. >> it's not too dramatic to say,

he truly has blood on his hands. he can't put an exact number on it, but there's a real sizable number of 1 million people who died because of donald trump. there's a real percentage of those million plus people who died because of his failure to lead and his selfish motives. >> and to not tell a simple truth. he could have just said, look, these two guys who work for me have this experience, and they came in and they told me, and, you know, let's see, but i want to share. i mean, this is what presidents -- you know, this is faithfully executing the office. pottinger and o'brien are coming in because they know the president has the responsibility to deal with this and take action and they were stiff. the public was stiff. i mean, blood, it's more than

blood. it's a national catastrophe. >> yeah, and, willie, again, over a million people died. he knew about this early. and he just kept saying over and over again, just one person coming in from china, ten, 11 people coming. remember all the times, it will be gone by springtime. it will get warm and go away. that's of course when it spread, when it got warmer. that's when it was harder in florida, and arizona and texas and it's shocking how calculated he is on these tapes. basically saying, i'm just going to lie to the american people. >> yeah. it's more than a scandal, it's a travesty. as bob said, more than a million people died. to listen to the tapes, imagine being the president of the united states, and being told what's happening by bob woodward and saying, well, i was up 10 or 12 points when this started. i might move the election. that's where his mind is, as

hundreds of thousands of people are dying of covid. bob, these tapes are riveting. i want to get to another topic you talked to him about which is north korea. this is a clip from december 13th, 2019, of an interview between bob and president trump where trump explains why he, only he, understands north korea's five major nuclear facilities. >> because i know every one of the sites, i know all of them, better than any of my people, i know them. you understand that. better than anybody i work for. my uncle, did i tell you, my uncle. >> yes, yes. >> he was at m.i.t. for 42 years or something. >> no, i don't want anything. >> you don't want water? >> no, sir. >> i understand that stuff. you know, genetically, i have an uncle, the top person at m.i.t. came to the office a year ago, gave me a package on dr. john trump, said he was one of the

greatest men. he was brilliant. >> willie, that is just really, that is something that you would slowly back away from, if they were talking to you that way on the street. that's somebody that is just so detached from reality. >> call the relatives, it's time to sit down with dad. bob, what are you thinking when the president of the united states goes on a riff, truly, i'm not even being flip about it, what are you thinking when you listen to a president say that? >> that i've got to put all the pieces together as i did for the book "rage" that came out before the election in september, and laid out so much of this, but honestly, i didn't understand the coverup. i did not understand when you listen to trump's voice in the denial and, you know, you tell somebody, oh, he says i'm smart

about north korean nuclear sites because i have a smart uncle. >> it's crazy. between the panic we heard in the first tape, talking about the election lead disappearing, and now this, this insistence that because of a relative who went to school at m.i.t., he knows more than the leading experts of the federal government. as you're sitting there, i mean, surely, even as a journalist, a legendary journalist, you're thinking to yourself, this man can't be fit for office? >> what i'm interested in is the information and confirming it and making sure i've got it right, and that's on this issue of the january, i mean, i'm calling matt pottinger at home, i found an old book that gave me the number to call white house signals at 10:00 at night, and i'm saying, can you get matt pottinger on the phone, and matt comes on, and i say you know what about this, and what about

that. so it's -- the demarcation for me as a reporter is the election, and trump, despite all of his efforts, he lost the election. >> we've got one more, this one from december 13th, 2019, of trump questioning why the u.s. defends south korea. >> i always the ask the one question, why are we defending south korea, see, i have that. why are we doing this? and i said to south korea, i told you about the 500 million, right? >> yes. >> they're paying $500 million more. it took me one day. i said, we're defending you, an we're losing a fortune and you're paying the same thing for 30 years, can which is nothing. you are paying almost nothing. you got to pay. and they have agreed to $500 million and now i'm asking for billions more. but i say yeah, it is a rich

country. so we're defending you, we're allowing you to exist, why are we doing that? why do we care? we're 8500 miles away. why do we care? why do we have our 32,000 soldiers over there willing to fight for you and you are not paying us, why? >> this guy, i mean, my god, if he is not a plant from some other country, he would make a hell of a plant because you've got him talking about love letters with the most brutal dictator on the face of the earth, and then he's hostile towards the democracy that is to the south of north korea, our south korean allies. why should i care? hostile towards them like he was hostile toward the leaders of britain, france, hostile to nato. donald trump time and again shows a hostile toward democratically elected governments and a reverence for

dictators like kim jung-un, putin, xi. >> yes, but it is worse where he says we are allowing you to exist. to an ally. if -- i'm trying to think of something more insulting to say to an ally. can you imagine joe biden going over to nato and telling our nato allies, well, we're spending all this money, we're allowing you to exist. inconceivable. there is one inconceivable statement after another where he is talking about north korea. now, north korea, such a danger. it is a danger to this country now we're going through a new cycle. and trump is talking about kim jung-un and his private negotiations with him, which are

traumatizing his national security team. and trump literally says about kim jung-un and his missiles, well, if he shoots, he shoots. if he shoots he shoots. the whole premise of deterrence theory is it is unthinkable to shoot. that we now have putin talking about it. but here is trump kind of saying, if he shoots he shoots, well, we'll destroy him. eye mean, my god, you listen to that and it is the casualness, it is the misunderstanding of what this relationship is and the danger of north korea that had all these missiles, these nukes camouflaged, hidden, concealed and spread out.

intelligence agencies went nuts about the danger and trump is off writing letters and having -- and telling me and the cia i'm the only one, i'm the only one that understands him. >> crazy. more than the intel community this harkens back to the question you asked in helsinki, but also, for all these people that say donald trump, he may have been a little off at times, but what -- he was great on policy. no, he wasn't. he was horrible here, he was horrible on nato, he wanted to destroy nato even after he was out of the presidency, what did he do when vladimir putin invaded ukraine? he called him brilliant. called him brilliant and what is proving to be the worst geopolitical decision made in our lifetimes for a leader of a country. vladimir putin's destroyed russia. and in so many ways. and donald trump was praising

him saying how brilliant it was. he is wrong all the time. >> i just think about how desensitized the nation is to shocking moment after shocking moment after shocking moment. and yet it is important that we try and frame history and the facts of what happened during this presidency. the new audio book is entitled the trump tapes. bob woodward's 20 interviews with president trump. thank you very much for coming on this morning. >> thank you. >> back in just a moment with chris matthews and jen psaki joining the conversation. convern ever wonder why they call it the american dream...

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coming up, brooklyn nets have suspended now kyrie irving for at least five games without pay after the star point guard again failed to say he has no anti-semitic beliefs when given an opportunity in a media session yesterday. >> again i'm going to repeat, i don't know how the label becomes justified because you guys ask me the same questions over and over again. but this is not going to turn into a spin around cycle questions upon questions. i told you guys how i felt. i respect all walks of life and embrace all walks of life. that is where i sit. >> people want to hear yes or no. >> i cannot be anti-semitic if i know where i come from. i cannot be anti-semitic if i know where i come from. >> and unclear what that means.

he has been criticized since last week when he tweeted about a movie that said that 6 million jews did not die during the holocaust. and irving finally issued an apologize, it would cost him a bunch of money. in an instagram post irving said that the documentary stated some statements untrue and offensive to the jewish race and he apologized writing in part i'm deeply sorry to have caused you pain. but even while irving did apologize for sharing the film, he indicated there are some parts of documentary that he still agrees with. >> just unbelievable. >> he was going to give $500,000 to the avl. you watched that news conference where portrayed himself as a victim and they said we don't

want your money. >> and yesterday he was open minded. he said listen, kanye's lost, but let's try to work with this guy. and he won't. he won't. and that wasn't an apology either saying there are some parts of -- it has some horrible language. it is really sick that he can't say he's sorry. you know why he can't say he's sorry? because he's not sorry which raises the question is it really worth it for brooklyn or any organization to carry this stuff. >> and even that qualified apology comes all because he started to impact his bottom line, suspension without pay, it will be at least five games, maybe longer. nets have been trying to trade him and no takers. nobody wants this by who just a few years ago was seen as one of the brightest stars in the league. but if you are a brooklyn nets fan, when the suspension ends, how do you cheer for this guy.

>> how can brooklyn cheer for this guy. we're at the top of the hour, we have so much to get to today. >> a lot of politics. >> just a lot of politics. a lot of polls, some maris polls. good news for democrats. we also will be talking to val demings and a cast of thousands. it is very exciting. we do have donny here though. before we let you go, we want to do brand up/brand down. let's talk about nike. >> there is a yrie irving shoe, not just commercials. >> and they will drop him, right? >> they have been very quiet. the great public company that has a great conscience, very quiet on this. nike, you have to step away from him, sham >> nike believes in social justice but not just jews. >> i'm glad you say it.

as a jewish guy -- >> i say it as a baptist guy. >> and there are instances where somehow anti-semitism falls into a different category than other hate tropes. but nike, the light is on you right now. shame on you if you stay with him. i will never buy a nike product again. >> what about twitter? >> we're all nervous about twitter with elon musk, but i'll give twitter a potential brand down because basically they are in trouble. advertisers at the end of the day, this will sound weird, but protect us in the sense that one of the big advertising holding companies has come out and said basically we're putting you on pause until we see you what you do right now. 90% of their revenue comes from advertising. i think that will keep elon musk in line. i've said how dangerous he is. >> and it is interesting, there is sort of inside game/outside game, he wants to own the libs,

but inside he has that meeting and they say that he said the right things. >> and he paid at least twice what twitter is worth and now firing a bunch of people this morning and he wants to charge people to have their check marks and all that, so appears he is trying to make up for a bad decision. and a wild swing -- >> wait a minute, look at these last two. >> i had not read this, but i'm told avocados -- >> yeah, groceries up 13%, but avocados have dropped 35%. i can't figure out the reason why, but avocado prices have dropped. so there you go. not saying it will save the world, but yay avocados. >> and i could use this next thing being brand up when i was in my 20s and 30s. living in a van down by the river. >> yes, matt foley, famous --

our good friend chris farley. ford is coming up on with a ford transit trailer, which is basically a van that converts into sleeping and living and even in one of the ads they are showing, they are showing people down by the river. so he was -- chris farley was very ahead of his time, matt foley saying i live in a van down by the river. and now it is brand up for ford. >> we got to get one of those. donny deutsch, thank you so much. great to see you. send our best to your mom. >> thank you. and now new polls to tell you about, in the pennsylvania senate race, democrat john fetterman has a six point lead over republican mehmet oz. >> and gets oprah's seal of approval. >> and raphael warnock is up four points on herschel walker. and mark kelly is up four points on blake masters. and again these maris polls have

democrat katie hobbs with a slight lead over republican kari lake. jen psaki is back with us, also chris matthews is joining the discussion. chris, there are a lot of people as mark halperin said this morning that shop at zabars and agents at caa and students at university of wisconsin professors that hope maris has it right because those latest polls that came out last night i think at midnight all trending the democrats' way. but it looks like the polls are all over the place. what are you seeing when you look? >> i look at pennsylvania, i've been checking around, and i think that it is a knife edge. right on the knife's edge. that could go either way. it is absolutely close to the point of being even steven right now if you are betting. and these elections, the great thing about this election, and i'm going to make a case for democracy without a speech, i'm just going to say look at the

elections out there now. you have tim ryan in ruby red ohio really going into the hornet's nest at a fox town meeting which was totally controlled and influenced by trumpism, and he said let's just talk about this. he didn't call people deplorables or said that they hang on their religions or guns, let's have a conversation. you got lee zeldin running in new york. and he could pull an upset. you have evan mcmullen out there in utah taking on mike lee. we have a great set of elections across this country. a lot will turn out to be very, very close. we should be proud of it. no speech needed here. just a great democracy. and we should point to it, we want close elections, we want people to get excited about who they are going to vote for. >> jen, let's talk about the ticket splitting which seemed to be out of favor for a while, but yet we're seeing it right now potentially in a couple states this cycle. georgia where there is the

republican incumbent for governor unfairly sizably while the senate race is dead even. and then pennsylvania where we have the democrat candidate for governor unfairly decisively, senate rate very close. fetterman up a couple points in that poll. what do you make of this, is this coming back this fashion or just a few specific individual candidates? >> yeah, and we don't know. and this is such an interesting trend to watch or possible trend to watch. i think in these races it could go one way or the other. one is the person who is running better, so in pennsylvania josh shapiro for example could help bull john fetterman and some of the lower ticket races there across the finish line. because it is really about when voters go into the polling booth or voting on their mail-in ballot, are they going to say i'll do a democrat for the top one and republican for the other

one and do a democrat for others. that is pretty abnormal, not that common. but we are seeing in places like pennsylvania, arizona, and others places where races could go both ways at the top of the ticket. >> and we're a bunch of races that don't get a lot of attention. new hampshire has gotten very interest being. nevada, a lot of smart people looking at that. where will you be looking on election night to see how the night is going to go? >> well, look, i think if democrats lose new hampshire for example or if it is not looking great for us early in the night, i think that that will be indicative of where democrats are because it is such a close state. we always say that new hampshire is a blue state during a presidential and purple during a midterm and that is what we're seeing play out because it is so close. so new hampshire is still, you know, looking neck and neck or not looking great for democrats around 10:00, 11:00. i think that that will be somewhat indicative of how many

seats we'll lose or what the margin will be. but i'll also be looking at nevada. that is a state that biden narrowly won by 2 1/2 points in 2020, hillary clinton won in 2016, but it is becoming more and more red in many respects because you have a lot of working class voters who were laid off during the pandemic, they worked at the casinos, union workers, and they were laid off and a lot of them were latinos and saying we didn't work for a year or eight months and we're frustrated by the economy. so it is not an immigration issue to them, it is the economy. and again what we've been talking about the last week or so, if you can't pay -- if you can't put food on your table, all the other issues become secondary and i think that that is what you are seeing play out in nevada. >> and jen psaki, you visited the district of sean patrick maloney earlier this week. new york. and he is the chair of the dccc

but locked in a tight battle himself. you spoke with canvassers, supporters. first tell us about that and ten we'll listen to some of your conversations. >> sure. this is such an interesting race to watch because i don't think that sean patrick maloney or the democratic party ever thought this would be a competitive race and it is now neck and neglect. it is a race where it is really democratic leaning, the district. and the biggest issue that is impacting people this race is crime. bail reform and crime comes up again and again when i spent the day there as an issue that democrats were worried could turn the election the other way. and it is interesting because this district is one where crime is actually going down. and it is an idyllic looking district. you walk around, there are white picket fences, beautifully decorated streets and halloween decorations. not a place where crime is an issue necessarily, but the

demographics are changing. so to me it will be interesting to watch do these fear tactics, this fear messaging from the republicans, does it work. and the other piece i will just say is election deniers with these democrats, we ran into people we talked to in the street and at their door, they brought up time and time again proactively that they are concerned about disinformation, election deniers was what was motivating them, worrying them, making their blood boil. and that was interesting to me too and actually a little bit surprising. >> so here is what one voter told you about the issue of bail reform. >> why do you think the issue of bail reform is one that people are talking about or resonating? >> because it is scary. and you have the fearmongers who are sitting here saying if you don't put those people, and i say it that way for a reason, in jail they're coming for you. >> and by those people -- >> if you look at every single

advertisement, they are always people of color. because if we can continue propagating that fear of that person of color, then the dwindling white community will start to really react. i have a little thing in my corner over there that says black lives matter. and i was out here one day cleaning up my yard and a man drove by and stopped and started really harassing me over black lives matter. >> because of the sign. >> because of my sign. and so you have i guess the old guard, people who have been here 50, 60 years, who have watched the change of the community. we are about a 60% to 65% latinx community. and they don't like it. they are losing their power. >> so chris matthews, what do you make of that conversation and the shove bail reform and how it is being used as crime as a top issue that both sides are now trying to address?

>> it has a lot do with geography in the suburbs. i've said before people move to the suburbs for all kinds of reasons. economic opportunity, they can afford a better house, a better neighborhood and they enjoy is it but yet they still root for their cities. and democrats are still the mayors of all the big cities. and so they take the rage. they just take it. if there is crime and gangs killing each other and black kids killing each other and gangs and terrible situations, they are blamed for it because they hold all those offices. and so if you are a suburban guy like sean patrick maloney, he has to take the rap for whoever is running new york city. or in philadelphia if you are in bucks county. because the democrats always own the cities and that is the problem that they have. they keep winning there and the crime keeps going up. we had 560 murders last year in philadelphia, more this year. it is a real situation. i mean, reverend al has talked about it, everybody has been talking about it. it is not about race entirely,

but there is no doubt that when they look into the cities, that is what they see when they have their attitudes about this thing. and it is bad. but i've noticed one thing, republicans since the time of richard nixon believe in the big three. you've got to run on three issues under the principle that people can only think of three issues when they are voting. so they always said the economy, crime and the border. that is what dr. oz is now talking about. verbally exploiting that big three theory. you have to hit three issues. those are his three issues, those are mitch mcconnell's three issues. the entire republican country is running on economics, crime and the border. they always mesh all three of them together. and it is a all negative. they have no plan to solve any of those problems. >> no plan. no plan. i mean, you look at something like -- i'm still fascinated by health care. republicans started speaking out against obamacare, against affordable care act, in 2010.

and here we are 12 years later. in 12 years, all they have done is complain. all they have done is try to kill the affordable care act. tried to kill obamacare. they have never come up with a viable alternative. ever. and what is their plan for inflation? i haven't heard it. what is their plan for crime? and how can you have a plan for crime when you don't apply it equally to, you know -- when paul pelosi gets his head bashed in and you are mocking it or uruguay either. >> or capitol hill. >> capitol hill cops get beat and you -- again, it is all negative. they have no plans. you got donald trump running around talking about how much he hates america. says that america is the worst country ever. everything is horrible in america. he shows that qanon clip at the

end of his speeches. and all he does is run down america. it is crazy. you've got republican senators, all they do is run down our men and women in uniform who defend us at home and across the world. the greatest armed forces ever, the nk strongest military in relation to the rest of the world ever, and all the republicans do is trash the military, saying they are woke. i wonder if the russians who charged our 2500 men and women in syria that got killed in five minutes, i wonder how woke they thought our troops were. i wonder how woke the iranians think our troops are as we keep pushing back. i wonder isaiah how woke they think our troops are that basically wiped them off the face of the earth. the 1 thousand year caliphate? no, not when we finally decided to go in there and do something

about it. republicans -- i don't really get it. do you hate america when you are not in charge of america? do you only believe in madisonian democracy when you win elections? because if you listen to what donald trump says, please, please, if you don't believe what i'm saying, get on your google machine, all he does is talk about how horrible america is. how he does is talk down america. all he does is talk down our economy. all he does is talk down our military. all he does is talk down our civilization, western civilization, democracy. if he doesn't win elections, he is against western democracy. it is a sickness. and again, unfortunately, that sickness has been spreading for six years and now you have people like ron johnson saying if i don't win the election, it is not a legitimate election. you have the governor running in arizona that will have a big say

in '24 if she wins, gubernatorial candidate saying, oh, i'm only going to respect the outcome of the election if i win the election. it is happening all over america. this is a virus, it is spreading, it is an anti american virus. and i'm an independent. i vote for people who love america, who believe in america, who believe like ronald reagan believed. and i do believe this, i do believe this that america's greatest days truly do lie ahead. i really do believe that. because economically, in relation to the rest of the world, we're stronger than we've ever been. militarily in relation to the rest of the world, our military is stronger than it has ever been. go back to the roman empire. stronger than we were in 2000. stronger than we were in '91 when the soviet union fell. stronger relative to the rest of the world than we were in 1945 because it was a bipolar world. the united states of america, stronger than it has ever been

relative to the rest of the world. if you use the test that paul kennedy used in the rise and fall of great powers, and the landmark book, stronger than -- our gdp through republican, democrat, republican, democratic administrations goes like this. look at the charts. goes like this. and all these people who are whining about how china was going to overtake us a couple years ago? sorry, not going to happen. just like japan. i heard it. japan will overtake us. not going to happen. didn't happen. just like my 7th grade teacher told us, the united states is in collapse, we're like the roman empire, sorry, not going to happen. i'm tired of these negative whiners. put me in power or i hate america is what they tell you. it is sick. >> yeah, it is. >> to your point, joe, just to add a little -- something to

this. within the last hour house republicans released a 1,000 page report going after the fbi as an institution that is rotten to its core. they just put out 1,000 page report attacking the fbi. >> unbelievable. >> do you know what those men and women do every day? those men and women every day stop terror attacks in america. those men and women every day fight drug gangs every day. those men and women with the fbi every day do their best to intercept fentanyl that kills our children, that kills our communities. they put their lives on the line every day. and the fbi held and extraordinarily corrupt politician named donald trump accountable. they hate the fbi because the fbi, they actually -- they want

to make sure that top secret documents don't get stolen from government buildings and taken to resorts. seriously, it is a situational patriotism, they hate the fbi, they hate the united states military, they hate everything about america when they are not running america. it is sick. it is unpatriotic and unamerican. >> the fbi executed a legal search warrant to recover documents taken from the white house to a beach club and now they are attacking the fbi in a 1,000 page report to protect donald trump. let's turn to the democratic nominee for senate in florida standing by patiently. congresswoman val demings. thank you so much for your time this morning. four days until the election. polls have marco rubio up by a few points there. what will make the difference down the stretch? >> well, let's me say this, great to be with you and i so enjoy just listening to joe's commentary. he said just about everything that i believe that i could say.

but look, the people of florida, my faith is in the people of florida. the good people of florida. joe, i really do believe that our best days are still ahead of us. and i hope that the republicans are a part of that because right now they are not. marco rubio surely is not. and i really think that voters in florida are sick and tired of the foolishness, sick and tired of politics and just want somebody who has the ability to put people first. and so my faith is in the voters of florida and you know i've traveled from the panhandle down to the keys. and four days from election day, i'm excited about this race. >> congresswoman, good morning. you are well suited for police chief to talk about the issue of crime, which of course has become one of the major topics

here in the stretch run of the campaign. republicans suggesting that democrats, they are too soft on crime. we won't even address defund the police. we know that is bogus. but talk about the concerns that republicans and some voters are voicing about rising crime particularly in areas run by democrats. what is your response? >> well, jonathan, thank goodness that the republicans are finally at the table wanting to talk about crime. it is not something that we should only talk about during political season. it is something that focus on every day. when i was the police chief in orlando, the reduction of crime was my number one concern. but that responsibility was not just on the men and women in blue. i enveloped the community in our efforts by saying look, everybody counts, and everybody is accountable. by holding everybody accountable and involving them in that process, we were able to reduce violent crime by over 40% and

guess what, that was under a democratic mayor and i was a democratic police officer or police chief. but political party did not matter. as a matter of fact, i cannot tell you the political party of the overwhelming majority of men and women at the police department. we had a mission that was the focus on crime and we were laser focused on that mission. but we can't just focus on the men and women at the police department. we know we got to hire the brightest and the best, make sure that they have the best equipment, the best training. but we've also got to deal with some of the social ills that cause decay in communities in the first place. poverty, high unemployment, low wages. quality of education. health care. all of those things. we've got to hold america to its promise of criminal justice reform but in all things. dealing with some of the social ills. by doing both, we could have stronger safer communities.

>> and it is great to see you. good luck on tuesday. we're all -- at least i'm rooting for you. i want to talk about closing arguments. this is obviously the time where both sides democrats and republicans are putting out a bunch of ads driving home their closing argument. and it does seem that in races across the country democrats are closing in on an aspirational message, talking about the thing that the biden administration has been able to do by putting more money in people's pockets, by having a plan to address inflation. and you are seeing on the republican side the "new york times" just put out a piece yesterday saying that republicans in congress want to cut social security and medicare, those are two of the things that they plan to do immediately if they regain control of the house house and senate. can you talk about your closing argument and what will matter to the key swing voters that will ultimately decide this election for you? >> i certainly appreciate that question and i'm running this race as the daughter of a maid

and janitor. i certainly understand what it feels like to struggle, what it feels like to try to make ends meet, what it feels like to keep a roof over your head and food on the table. as i'm traveling the state, i'm talking to voters about the costs in grocery stores, the costs in other places, the costs of gas at the pumps. the lack of affordable housing in florida. but i also hear about the effects of climate change. it would be nice to have a senator in florida who actually believed in it and guess what, wanted to do something about it. unbelievable flooding in south florida. but people also, when we are talking about just the cost of everyday living, they are also talking about protecting constitutional rights and i believe that we can do both. i'm doing it in this race and we'll do in the senate what i did as a police chief, that is to protect and serve. people do not want to lose constitutional rights and we've seen it occur in this country

for the first time in the history of this country. women are fired up. and, no, we do not want our daughters and our granddaughters to have less constitutional rights than we have. so guess what? we can do two things at one time. work to lower costs. there is only one party working do that right now and that is the democratic party. but protect constitutional rights at the same time. >> nominee for senate in florida, val demings, thank you for your service and thank you for being with us this morning. so chris matthews, you've been through a lot of these elections. love what you said about tight races. there are so many close races out there if you believe the polls. if the polling -- and there is a generalized freakout on the democratic side. but pollings is usually one or two points off. one or two points in so many races could make the difference between a republican landslide and a great night for democrats

if it breaks two points in the democrats' way, two points in the republicans' way, we could have a vastly different washington over the next couple years. what are you looking at and what does this year remind you of? it reminds me of 2014. is there a midterm election that comes to mind? >> it does remind me of carter in 1980 of course with inflation being a serious problem. in addition to the iranian hostages. i think in my life it is more like a parliamentary election. fetterman was saying we're talking about 50 votes in the senate. what matters is who is the prime minister, who is getting 51. they are all basically saying if you listen to them, it is not just me, it is not herschel walker of course, it is not just fetterman, it is about getting the 50 or the 51. so they are appealing to almost their nonentity quality rather

than -- look at what is going on in georgia. people aren't serious will i voting for herschel walker. they are voting for a majority senate vote. they want mitch mcconnell to have 51. that is why they are doing it. and with fetterman and questions about how he has recovered and i think he really has recovered, they are talking about what that vote would mean if dr. oz got a hold of it because dr. oz his ability do anything in the interests of trump. so he will be a loyal supporter of mitch mcconnell. i really think if you look all across the country, it is all about is it red or blue. are you going to be red or blue, a republican or a democrat. and i think that has become almost like a parliamentary election for prime minister. i don't care who my member of parliament is, i want to know who the next prime minister is going to be. and that is what seems so different this time. >> that is so fascinating. it is true. and especially in georgia. i have a close friend who is

talking to a buddy in georgia and they are talking and the guy was joking, but he said, well, i'm going to hell and my friend said why? and he said i just voted for herschel walker. and he laughed about it, but he said it is -- >> just to chris' point. >> yeah, he said it is too important. i don't want democrats in charge of the senate. and so it is really weird that people have -- in cases especially like herschel walker, they are just not looking at the anymore. it is the label. and that seems kind of new. >> chris mathews, jen psaki, thank you all for being on. and still ahead, voters get their last piece of economic information ahead of tuesday's vote as the october jobs report is being released. we'll bring you the number. plus how one race for the house could be an early indicator of which party will have a good night nationwide. we'll tell you which district that is. and up next, reporting from

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there are new concerns about rising tensions in the korean peninsula. south korea's military says that it detected about 180 north korean warplanes flying north of the military border overnight. let's bring in raf sanchez from seoul. what more do we know? >> reporter: over the last two days it was missiles and today it is military aircraft, fresh escalation from the north. south korea says that it scrambled 80 fighter aircraft of its own including fifth generation f-35 stealth fighters in response to what it said was

180 north korean aircraft flying north of the military border. there are also about 100 american air force pilots currently taking part in these very large scale military drills with the south koreans. those pilots were put on alert in case this did lead to an actual shooting of that, they were not scrambled, there was no shooting in the end. but mika, this is a time of extremely high tensions. kim jung-un has fired a record 29 missiles this week so far. the most worrying of which is an intercontinental ballistic missile fired yesterday. south korean government official telling nbc news they believe it was a wasang 17, it has a range of 9,000 miles. and it in theory could hit anywhere in the united states. the missile that they fired yesterday appears to have filed. looks like it fell into the sea

of japan. but they have successfully tested had kind of long range missile in the past. the big question here is whether the north koreans in this sudden flurry of missile tests are gearing up for yet another nuclear test. if they do, it would be their first nuclear test in five years since 2017. kim jung-un halted his nuclear tests ahead of those infamous meetings with donald trump in 2018. but guys, now there is basically no diplomacy between the biden administration and north korea, only brinksmanship. and so we're seeing escalation after escalation with the possibility of a nuclear test at some point to come. >> raf sanchez reporting live from seoul, thank you very much. and coming up -- >> the way the election is being carried out, do you believe that will be accurate and will you accept the results? >> i've always accepted election results that are fair and following the constitution. i intend to look to the

constitution and uphold the law and the constitution. >> i'll read something. i am co-hosting two buses to the million maga march/rally with frederick county conservative club in support of at real donald trump on january 6, 2021, #stop the steal. >> one of the exchanges between democrat wes moore and republican dan cox in their battle for governor of maryland. "morning joe's" chief medical correspondent dr. dave campbell recently caught up with moore to discuss the midterms, health policy and much more. that conversation is just ahead on "morning joe." "morning joe. [coughing] hi, susan. honey. yeah. i respect that. but that cough looks pretty bad. try this robitussin honey. the real honey you love, plus the powerful cough relief you need.

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welcome back. one of the big midterm battles playing out tuesday is the race for maryland governor between democrat wes moore and republican dan cox. and dr. dave campbell sat down with moore to discuss his views on health care and the roll of public servants in today's political landscape. >> what's going on? >> although never elected to public office, u.s. veteran and road scholar wes moore is leading the race to become the next governor. >> i've been working on education, criminal reform, early childhood, but just never run for office. i've been working in the community. >> reporter: i joined him on the trail to discuss the race. health care policy, and to see how he stays healthy while campaigning. what is the difference between you and your opponent? >> i have a leave no one behind

agenda where we make sure we're creating pathways for everybody in the state to succeed. and i know my opponent has proposed that he would literally criminalize abortions, all abortions for patients and priors. is this a person whose economic policies would literally slash education. this is a person who has no problem leaving people behind. >> what i would love to know is how you are going to take your concerns about those impoverished and translate that into health care policies for those that live in maryland. >> one of the earliest memories of is when my father died in front of me. i was almost four and when he went to the hospital, there were assumptions good whether or not he had insurance. and he was told to get rest and if it got work come back. and he died in front of me hours

later. i've seen consequences of inequitable policies. i felt handcuffs on my wrists when 11. my mother didn't get a job with benefits until i was 14. and i know that our growth will be viewed on not just how some do, but going to every marylander and say we see you. >> how can you pivot into health care services for those with a drug addiction, those that have mental health problems consumed by the stigma that comes with those diseases of the brain? >> well, and i'm really glad that you phrase it that way. because i feel like part of the challenge we've had in our society is the way we deal with mental health and the way we deal with addiction is we just criminalize it. you know, this is something that is very personal to me. i lost one of my best friends a couple years ago because of an overdose. and he fought. he fought to try to beat this battle. we have to do a better job of

being able to add in additional health care mechanisms and allow people to get the treatments that they need. we need to stop the criminalization of people who are suffering from addiction. >> where do you think that approach starts? >> everything we're seeing is a policy decision. the air we're breathing is a policy decision. the water we are drinking is a policy decision. the homes we are living in, a policy decision. the transportation assets we have, the way we are policed, the food that we have access to, these are all policy decisions. so it is important as policymakers that we then take that lens in the way we're talking about really creating the foundations and supports for people to get what they need. >> tell me your thoughts on patriotism. >> i take that word very seriously. my grandfather was the first one on my mom's side of the family born in this country. and when he was just a toddler, the ku klux klan ran the family out because my grandfather was a vocal minister and started getting death threats.

so he picked up his family and they moved to jamaica. and my grandfather always pledged to come back and he did. and maybe the most patriotic american i ever met. i saw what patriotism looks like. i saw it when i was leading paratroopers in combat. and i refuse to be lectured by an extremist election denier where my patriotism was leading my family and putting on the uniform of this country and his definition was putting on a baseball cap and asking him to join him on january 6. i love this country, i defend this country, i am proud of this country even in all of its unevenness. and we will not see cede that to anyone who wants to bastardize the term and try to take this idea of patriotism away from those who worked every day of their life to make this country better. >> thanks to dr. dave campbell for that reporting. and coming up, new reporting from south texas where

republicans are making inroads in districts long held by democrats. we'll look at the changing dynamic next on "morning joe." it's time for theraflu hot liquid medicine. powerful relief so you can restore and recover. theraflu hot beats cold. ever wonder why they call it the american dream... and not the american goal? derek jeter! ...or plan?

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on m and o. now is not the time to raise taxes in san francisco. vote no on m and o. with the midterms just days away, latino voters remain a crucial voting bloc particularly in texas. we traveled to the rio grande valley to get a firsthand look. >> reporter: voters here, a region that spans over four counties in southern texas, have long voted solidly democratic. that may be changing soon with the upcoming midterms. the gop wants to turn the mostly hispanic area red, and there are new signs it may be working. >> i've been staunchly democrat all of my life. it hasn't been fl recent that i've been undecided. i started voting republican here at the local level.

>> reporter: iris is a longtime resident in mcallen, texas. you've never voted for a republican in your life. >> yes. >> reporter: what do you make of that? >> i think it's just people are tired of the same old, same old, the same status quo. we keep voting the same people in and nothing is changing. >> reporter: the democratic party is faring well latinos in the national level, but in the valley, it's a different story. although president biden has pushed back on democrats to defund the police, that message hasn't been clear for these voters. >> defunding the police does not resonate with me. i do believe in law and order as much as i believe in prison reform. >> reporter: the mayor of edinburgh, texas. >> both parties talk about on a national level, it may work in an area of a country but not here. that's part of the reason perhaps why locally there was a

shift from supporting, you know, democrats that maybe shifted in vote, you know, on the gop side. >> reporter: this man is the owner of strategy partners, a public affairs consulting agency. he's a longtime political consultant in and around texas. >> here you have a heavy presence of border patrol, i.c.e., homeland security investigations, atf, dea, as well as local police and county sheriffs. and so many sons and daughters are in those agencies and representing and working there. and so the defund the police argument here doesn't quite translate as much as it does in other parts of the country. >> reporter: he points to republican maya flores' victory in a special election earlier this year as an indicator of the gop making inroads with latino voters. >> for years in this country, people have often said i hate

congress, but i love my congressman. and i think that she has built up that sort of one-on-one rapport and she talks to people, and as she knocks on doors and as she visits communities. >> reporter: last year the rnc opened a hispanic community center here in mcallen, one of the few new community centers that have popped up in and around the rio grande valley. >> we need to have a permanent presence in each of these many communities where we want to be competitive. >> reporter: a presence that may give republicans an edge on key races. chris is a coffee shop owner in mcallen, and although a registered democrat, he says his vote shouldn't be taken for granted. you could be swayed depending on who's on the ballot. >> you never know. maybe it could. it depends what they have to offer on the table. it's not a matter of party loyalty anymore. with trump as president, people re-evaluated what they believed

in, sensitive subjects like gay rights or abortion. up next, how the deep state saved the nation. a new titled "american resistance." that's just ahead on ""morning joe.""

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