it's 4:00 in new york. election results are still rolling in from races all across the country. including in nevada and arizona, where the outcome of every single statewide race is too early to call.

this much is already crystal clear, donald trump and his big lie is a big loser. high profile election deniers, including candidates for governor in pennsylvania, michigan and wisconsin lost their races. with the "new york times" referred to as the quote, red wave that didn't reach the shore in a number of big lie republican candidates for secretary of state, the pivotal office in charge of our elections, lost as well, thank god, including kristina in michigan, who has insisted that voting machines have flipped votes and claimed that the insurrectionists who stormed the capitol were actually antifa. both claims are completely bonkers, completely false. celebrity doctor, mehmet oz, who flirted with election denialism in his primary, fell short in his bid in pennsylvania making it silly for difficult for republicans to ultimately gain control of the senate. now, brand-new reporting suggests republicans are looking

to blame someone. not just anyone, one man. for why they came up short. that one man would be the disgraced twice impeached ex-president. washington post reports, trump pushed party candidates and leaders to go with his false claims about the election, which were viewed as an unhelpful message. trump often gave candidates who sought his endorsement talking points about what to say and lambasted them when they backed away from his claims. even if the republican establishment saw his message as unhelpful, "the washington post" reports, they have no one to blame for themselves since they went along with it and every step of the way enabled a twice impeached ex-president who made excuses for that ex-president when along with his lies and conspira conspiracies, ever since he rode down that escalator and

announced his run for president in 2015. take a listen to what january 6th committee member adam kinzinger had to say on "morning joe" earlier today. >> i think the thing we miss talking about that is why is donald trump still even a thing? it's primarily two people. it's kevin mccarthy going to mar-a-lago, which is ironic because i think kevin mccarthy will be the one that donald trump throws under the bus to try to blame for this election outcome, because you know donald trump will not take the blame. and the other one, though i like the guy, is mitch mcconnell, who had a chance in the impeachment, when ten of us in the house voted to impeach and i think seven of his senate colleagues and he stood up and voted no on conviction. he had a chance to put donald trump away. so, in reality, yeah, trump's a drag on the ticket, but we can go back two years and figure out how we even got to this position in the first place. >> the gop paying a hefty price for their fealty to donald trump is where we start today with some of our favorite reporters and friends.

axios alexei mackanin is here, at the table, former republican congressman david jolly and david pleth is back. david jolly, mitch mcconnell had cause to convict. mitch mcconnell had legal cover. chuck cooper wrote an op-ed in "the wall street journal" totally debunking the other right-wing lawyers who were saying you can't impeach someone on their way out. i don't know what their inane analysis was. mitch mcconnell had motivation. mcconnell hates being in the minority. mitch mcconnell's wife left the cabinet. she's gone on to be targeted with racist attacks by donald trump. mitch mcconnell just didn't have the to do it. >> let's start with the baseline, that has not been shouted from the mountain tops yet. republicans are in disarray, right? everybody likes to say, democrats don't know what they're doing. republicans have no idea what they're doing in this moment.

they're trying to shed themselves of donald trump. but very importantly, to the context of your question, they are not doing it out of conviction. they had the opportunity to shed donald trump out of conviction. it was during the first impeachment or the second impeachment or, frankly, in 2015, but everybody collapsed. everybody folded in and everybody said, this is our guy. they celebrated him and they elevated him. and so, you know, when -- >> the third thing they did is they tried to destroy everybody else who refused to go along. >> that's right. and here's -- you know, i got qualms with the analysis that somehow tuesday was donald trump's fault. i actually don't think it was. it was the republican brand that has emerged since 2016. >> totally agree. >> it is exactly the rejection we saw in '18 and in '20 and '22 and it happened again. donald trump was not on the ballot tuesday. a bunch of trumpist republicans were. but those trumpist republicans, include the likes of mitch mcconnell, kevin mccarthy and everybody else out there. republicans are going to try to

ask for a pass now, right? now we're going to eject donald trump and we're back to who we used to be. it is up to the oversight of the press and people who have lived through the last six years to remind america, they don't get to do this now. >> well, i agree. i mean, i think -- now, he's the reason the brand -- >> of course. >> -- is so toxic. >> sure. >> i'm going to be fascinated the next couple of weeks, does he actually announce for president during the georgia runoff? >> do we care? >> i think most republicans would care. it's not a helpful dynamic heading to the georgia runoffs. >> let's play that out. do we care? >> well, if we win nevada -- >> say he does and it's not helpful, and raphael warnock wins again, at some point you have to say, bring it on. i mean, i guess -- >> oh, listen, as a democrat, nothing would make me happier. truth is, i think he is going to be tattooed if he runs for president. which is, by the way, i still

think there's a chance he doesn't. in his mind, he's this historical figure. the election was stolen from him. >> historically losing. >> right. >> he's literally won once in '16. lost everything else. >> presided over these awful midterms. i think he will then be a loser. he'd just be a loser. >> which he couldn't bear. >> that's the thing in his mind. at the end of the day, i'll be curious to start seeing the ted cruzes of the world, sop of these folks who have gone completely behind him. do they start -- by the way, the way they'll do it, hey, listen, we love the guy, but he's toxic and he's toxic because of the media, it's not fair, the democrats, but we need a fresh start to win. because his approval rating was 37%. >> that's so hollow. i guess you're saying the way to do it without a spine -- >> yeah, come on, spine? i mean, you'll look a long time for a spine. the question is, how do they create permission structure to usher him off the stage?

they won't do it with principle or convection. >> what are you seeing? >> democrats are celebrating even though donald trump wasn't on the ballot, and his lasting impact, is they have successfully branded republicans as these maga accolytes, whether they are or not, if republicans only have a narrow majority, that means the group of people like marjorie taylor greene and others will have more power and influence over someone like a leader kevin mccarthy. that will continue to brand the republican party as the party of maga, whether or not donald trump announces again for 2024, though he says he will on tuesday. that's something that democrats i talk to say that they're going to continue using through 2024. they don't really see a reason why they can't continue branding the party this way. and i think that's something that they've tried to figure out

how to talk about donald trump since 2016. there have been conversations about, you know, whether and how to talk about him this time. and they really didn't even have to mention his name much without capitalizing on what he's really done to the party. you know, you saw the results yourself, the number of election deniers who weren't elected to be governor, secretary of state, weren't elected to state legislative chambers. american people know what's going on. they clearly have taken this message to heart and sort of understand just how much the party has changed. and that's going to be difficult for republicans to grapple with, especially if they do try to push donald trump out of the picture and welcome someone like governor desantis in as the new leader. >> i think the other side is just as striking. i think you also have some stars that have arisen in the democratic party. and i think as many times as we invoke ron desantis' victory, we should invoke shapiro's.

and gretchen whitmer ran on a kidnapping and assassination plot, a tough state, and had a sizeable victory. abortion on the ballot there. the democratic side, as bleak and depressing and cynical as the republican story is, you know, the democrats ran on this thing that hasn't even been part of political conversation since post-9/11 america when we talked about our daily life as part of the civic conversation. and they won. what do you make of that? >> first of all, i agree there are some stars out there. whitmer, wes moore, kelly. here's the thing, they have talent but they showed the ability to win the middle of electorate. >> in tough states. >> right. >> on abortion and democracy. >> you've done a great job staying on this democracy question -- >> i figured if i asked it

enough times. >> one, i think enough voters, i would like it to be lot voters but enough. across the board, republicans who lost elections have acknowledged the defeat. all of us who are on the pro-democracy side of things should be pretty happy about that. i wasn't sure that would happen. >> let me play what adam kinzinger had to say about this for you about sort of the issue mix. >> look, folks may say the number one issue is inflation or the number one issue is abortion. i think those had an impact in the election, but i think things like the january 6th committee hearings, like the attack on paul pelosi, i think all of that was creating a real discomfort in people's hearts. it's why you didn't see a wipeout like you saw. >> i think this idea that there were echoes of the 2002 midterms, and i'm not saying 1-6 was 9/11 at all, but when he

says there are things in people's gut not feel good, and not only watching the attack on paul pelosi but the polarization of a political leader, the instant reaction to many parts on the right, the most high profile media outlets and some of their elected officials was to make jokes was sickening. >> yeah. this is fascinating from a raw campaign perspective. david's very skilled at this. you know, you look at the first midterms of a president. and what historically we have looked at is the low to medium propensity voters that show up in the terms to simply say, i like where we are or not. often we conflate that with the economy or something else. you could say that a lot of low to medium propensity voters voted along the issue of january 6th and democracy. you could say it was a post-dobbs community. i actually think what you saw was low to medium propensity voters are becoming higher

information voters, right. >> yeah. >> i actually think what we saw, the big winner on tuesday night that overperformed was the american voter, who said, we can actually -- we can actually, like, dissect multiple issues. if it's dobbs, if it's protecting democracy, if it is trumpism, if it is the economy, we can make rational decisions. >> and we can buck what everyone is telling us we're going to do in a midterm. that's my favorite part about it, everyone was wrong. i'm not saying i was right. i wasn't sure what voters were going to do because it felt so weird. >> every special election in the last two years, voters were performing in ways they shouldn't have. the kansas abortion vote is one of them. the main rooeg reason for doubt among prognosticators is in new jersey and virginia. youngkin. we saw consistency throughout the last two years.

i honestly think, this is a calling for democrats. this is your opportunity to grab and coalesce and comment that coalition. don't overlook that coalition. it is real. it's been there for you each of the last three elections. >> you know, to the point about democrats, i mean, they've got the playbook. president obama did the master class. josh shapiro, gretchen whitmer, wes moore, there are strong candidates running in competitive states who prevailed putting that coalition back together of independents, disaffected republicans, dobbs voters, democracy voters, and people who -- no one is happy about the economy but they understand yelling about it is the same as not fixing it. >> there's this really interesting thing i picked up in my reporting. we've been doing monthly focus groups throughout this entire cycle with folks who voted for trump in 2016 and then switched to joe biden in 2020. so, you know, there's still a mix of registered republicans,

democrats and independents, but the consistent thing across states, and we just did one last night in georgia, is that these voters have policy concerns, as david jolly was talking about, whether it's the economy or inflation, crime, abortion, they have these policy concerns top of mind, but what they care more about is character and personality. and that has come through with someone like herschel walker, it comes through with people denying the election, it comes through with people following in trump's foot steps. and you really see voters now more and more sort of making up their minds earlier because of the character of these candidates. and while these democrats that you've been shouting out are considered to be stars with potential national profiles, according to strategists that i talked to, they're not leaning into their personality as much as the candidates on the right. they are able to focus more on resonating with voters on those policy issues they care about.

that's a dynamic that i don't really see going away as long as we continue to nominate people on the right and on the left in some cases, who are these larger than life personalities. >> that's so interesting. i think at a time when things are difficult, when people do feel stressed and a burden, when they're shopping for groceries or at the gas station, they don't care about a celebrity candidate. celebrities can't do anything for them. let me show you someone putting some of this into context in terms of what happened. this is a newly elected democrat who flipped in ohio congressional seat. >> chabet, who has been there for almost three decades, was sort of a do nothing or, you know, innocuous back bencher, but when trump got on the scene, he really dove all in and was, you know, part of, you know, the group that tried to overturn the

election on january 6th. that was just too much for a lot of independents and a surprising number of republicans who just, you know, want that to end. and then he's also, you know, my opponent was very well known as an anti-choice extremist. that caught up to him with the dobbs decision. >> i followed with despair all ten republicans who voted to impeach donald trump but because -- but i never heard anything anyone sort of tag their opponents as part of their group that voted to overturn the elections after the deadly violence of january 6th. and they should have. i would have been a fan of that strategy. this is sort of the analysis after the fact. what independent republican voters felt was someone trying to overturn the election on january 6th was too much.

is that a lesson? should that be part of the conversation moving forward? >> yeah. again, i think what i've gathered is it's an extension of what voters, independents, republicans, some democrats have had for a while, which is this sort of disdain for washington, right? you don't like these entrenched politicians who you feel are increasingly out of touch with you and your life because of the time they spend in a place like washington, d.c. this is an extension of that. the same can be said of house investigations that republicans have promised to launch if they take over the house and/or the senate. voters that we talked to in these groups all the time are like, it's a waste of money, time, resources. if you have all that time and money, why aren't you using it to help me with the problems i'm having on my everyday life. and so whether it's election denialism, something like january 6th, pursuing what they consider legitimate lines of

inquiry into someone like joe biden's son, dr. fauci, those are not resonating with people. voters don't seem to care about and that's the reality. >> it's amazing. you know, david, i think to what alexi is saying, it almost throws down the gauntlet of following the path, which is what they said they're going to do. they're ready to open their benghazi-style investigations into the president's son, private citizen living a private life, known to be under scrutiny by doj. not any clear role in any voter's mind about what congress is needed in that situation. you look at the results, you look at all the sort of swing seats that flipped from r to d, seems like a high-stakes scandal. >> they won't be able to help themselves. they don't care about the center. they're trying to please tucker carlson and sean hannity. this is why it's malpractice for republicans. let's look at the candidates who voters thought actually stood up

for democracy. kemp, dewine, huge elections for them. >> raffensperger. >> yes. independent and moderate votes will reward those who show some spine. >> republicans who ran up the number were against the coup. >> yeah. super conservative. >> correct. >> it didn't take much. >> correct. if i were a bigger person, i wouldn't do this, but i'm not, so i'm going to. this is the loser list. this is trump's losers from tuesday. these are all of the election deniers. actually, we don't know yet about arizona. kari lake is there in case she comes up short. but that race hasn't been called. tim michaels in wisconsin lost. tudor dixon in michigan lost. doug mastriano in bed with gab and all sorts of extremists in pennsylvania lost. darren bailey of illinois lost. dan cox of maryland lost.

lee zeldin of new york, very trumpy pick for new york, lost. this is an extraordinary thing to add to donald trump's wikipedia page. >> yeah. >> so, look, this is where the american voter stood up and rejected these conspiracy theories and the nonsense that was donald trump's essential message. what i would say about this is, the adoption of the big lie was really just out of a bunch of feeble republican politicians that had to do what donald trump said. they will adopt a different message if donald trump tells them to or the republican base wants them to. so, yes, we escaped what honestly could lead to violence. i still think if kari lake loses, there could be a coda to the entire election about denialism or if she wins, we have to wrestle with that moment. i would also say, this goes to the speaker's race, the heart of the speaker's race, the number three in the house has turned around and already endorsed

donald trump for 2024. as the rest of the party is trying to shed donald trump, he is very much a presence. so, if he is going to raise these allegations of election denialism again in this cycle or come up with a different conspiracy theory, this whole group of election deniers will adopt the next conspiracy theory. it is a danger. this is where republicans are trying to wrestle themselves out of a paper bag, but donald trump is not going anywhere. and -- >> he's in the bag with them. >> in some ways, america would be better if he's off the stage. but the truth is, he is the identifier that allows us to hold republicans accountable for everything they've done in the last six years to challenge democracy. >> so true. alexi, david, david, thank you for starting us off. after the break with so much focus on a relatively impressive midterm election, historically so for democrats, we can't lose sight of the fact that american people spoke with one voice,

unambiguous, on a colossal contemporary issue, reproductive issues. out of the frying pan into the fryer with an embarrassing midterm fading into the rearview, is an indictment his next event, shall we say? later in the president we'll speak to president biden's chief of staff, ron klain, about the mood inside the west wing this house. more when "deadline white house" returns after a quick break. a q. super emma just about sleeps in her cape. but when we realized she was battling sensitive skin, we switched to tide hygenic clean free. it's gentle on her skin and out-cleans our old free detergent. tide hygenic clean free. hypoallergenic and safe for sensitive skin. tide hygenic clean free. living with metastatic breast cancer means being relentless. because every day matters. and having more of them is possible with verzenio. the only one of its kind proven to help you live significantly longer

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i will always, always keep fighting to protect a woman's fundamental freedom and to block any attempts -- block any attempts to ban abortion nationwide. >> we'll make michigan a leader, a place where every person is respected and protected under the law. a place where women make their own decisions. >> tonight, you, the good people of pennsylvania, you won. opportunity won. a woman's right to choose won! >> democrats taking a much deserved victory lap there after campaigning hard in a difficult climate on their support for a woman's right to choose, to make her own choices about her body. after the united states supreme court stripped away the constitutional right to abortion access held in this country for 50 years. despite claims by republicans that abortion was a wedge issue

that divided americans, voters from every ideological strife showed they are unified wanting freedom to make their own decisions about their health and their bodies without politicians in the room. and every ballot amendment contest on abortion, including in deep red states like montana and kentucky, supporters of abortion rights and freedom won. anger around the issue of abortion helped secure major democratic wins on a night that every historical indicator suggests should have benefitted republicans and bigley. "the new york times" writes this, quote, in michigan where nearly half of voters said abortion was their top issues, democrats won both chambers of the legislature and re-elected governor gretchen whitmer, giving the party a trifecta of party for the first time in 40 years. joining us, mally mcmorrow puts it, state house, state senate, governor, hate did not win. joining us is mallory mcmorrow.

so, you were confident when we last talked ahead of these elections. what did you feel that maybe you didn't want to say before but that was affirmed in this week's results? >> you know, you always want to be cautiously optimistic so you don't stop working, but on the ground for months now, the energy hasn't died down. the more volunteers i talked to, even in some of our toughist districts around the state, people kept telling me, this feels like 2018 again. this feels like 2018 again, and that was huge. that meant we were on the right track, that meant people were going to stay engaged and come with us all the way through the finish line. >> you brought our attention back to the campaign that governor whitmer ran, and she had a stunning, decisive victory there. what, as we sort of start looking at the lessons, what can the country and democrats and

maybe even some republicans learn from the campaign she waged? >> i think we as a team in michigan worked together. the governor got re-elected with an incredibly healthy margin. she performed better than she did in 2018. and we flipped the state senate for the first time in my entire lifetime. michigan is a blue trifecta state heading into 2024, which is something that's only happened four times in the past 100 years, believe it or not. and i want to go back to your last segment. they really came down to character and quality of candidates. i think abortion and dobbs was a perfect example of women were set to lose a right that we've had for 50 years. and when we're coming out of the past two years of just nonstop chaos, that felt like the last straw to a lot of people. the attitude i think so many, particularly women were carrying forward is, who is the person i want in the trenches with me?

who is going to lead us out of chaos, not back into more chaos? people want to move on from 2020. people want to maintain our fundamental rights. that's something that governor whitmer did early, and it's also something we did with every single candidate on the ballot, to really diverge from the politics of hate and fear and chaos. and it worked. >> you are one of the best people at going right in to the wedge culture attacks that the republicans want to wage against the democratic party. i like to say that some people saw and learned from that and got themselves on offense on these issues. the truth is, the first exit poll data we saw was that 60% of voters oppose dobbs and 60% of voters oppose the supreme court. is the democratic party ready to make the supreme court an issue that gets the whole party and this broad coalition on offense for 30 years the way the republicans did for the last 30?

>> i think we have to, especially when it comes to attacks on our rights. the supreme court has already nodded to taking away marriage equality, contraception. people do not want to go backwards. what we have to do as a party all around the country is really bring the issue home for everybody. i think talking about the supreme court still feels like something that happened very far away in an ivory tower somewhere, but losing your fundamental right is something people are willing to fight for and join your team to be a part of. and if we've learned anything, and i think we have, we have to stand up for people, we have to fight and bring them along with us to show us the way forward out of this incredibly chaotic moment. >> you and i talked right before the elections. i had heard from a source in michigan and a candidate in pennsylvania that something turned in that last week. that the last week felt much better than the two weeks before that. do you know what that was?

have you kind of gone back and figured that out? >> it did. it really did feel hopeful, and it was something that for those in places like michigan and i'm sure my counterparts, too, like we haven't known this feeling in a long time. i think it's the push of the get out the vote time period where at that point, you're not really thinking about strategy anymore. you're just going and you're getting out there and you're talking to people and you're holding rallies and the mood was celebratory. it felt like much like the women's march did right after donald trump got elected where, you know, i expected the worst, but people who attended women's marches all around the country left those events feeling hopeful. like we found our people and we found our people. and that's what it felt like the last week on the ground in michigan. >> yourself, president biden,

governor whitmer made clear people didn't have to worry about living in a democracy and caring about inflation. governor whitmer tied economic freedoms to economic opportunity. the whole idea that democracy was this luxury issue when you have high inflation was something that, i think, some of the best candidates this cycle on the democratic side made clear was a false choice. it was a construct from the right. it was sort of knocked down. what is the lesson, then, as we sort of continue to, i think, have an electorate that's uneasy and anxious about the cost of things? >> i think what governor whitmer did really well is she planted a flag early on reproductive and abortion rights. well before the dobbs issue, well before anything happened. in michigan we were proactive instead of reactive. that freed her up to taub about the economy, to talk about inflation. and what she did and democrats have done in places where we've

been successful is acknowledging that these are issues. don't run away from them. at the same time republicans were acknowledging inflation and then blaming trans kids who want to play sports, democrats were saying, hey, it's a tough time right now, but governor whitmer talked about record investment on education, getting kids back on track after going through a pandemic and learning loss, expanding child care and it resonated with voters again. it's who do you want in the trenches with you. it's a hard time right now. yeah, we've got progress but we have to keep making progress, not pretending like the issues don't exist. not blaming somebody else and not refusing to offer any solutions. that's all the republican party had. >> indeed. michigan state senator, always a pleasure to talk to you, mallory mcmorrow, thank you. >> thank you. with the midterms kind of moving behind us, not quite completely, but you know what i'm saying, questions now arise

about whether the justice department is ready to follow through on its pledge that no one person, no one in this country is above the law. we'll talk about that next. ♪♪ what will you do? will you make something better? create something new? our dell technologies advisors can provide you with the tools and expertise you need to bring out the innovator in you.

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after a really bad showing in these midterm elections for the twice impeached, disgraced ex-president's hand-picked candidates, one of the few things he can still safely count on now that all the voting is over is this, politico notes, it

is an onset of even worse legal peril. with extremist election denying message failing the midterms test, it is not just his party standing that is greatly threatening but also that political firewall and red wave of candidates he probably counted on to protect him in congress. politico explains what happens next amid the many criminal investigations closing in on his top pallies, his business dealings and his january 6th culpability. quote, with the midterm elections in the rearview, federal prosecutors are no longer abiding by an unwritten code to avoight politically sensitive investigative steps before voters go to the polls. prosecutors in the justice department's january 6th investigation, for example, quote, are free to take more overt steps to advance their investigation, end quote. let's bring in politico senior legal affairs reporter josh ger steen and asha, former fbi special agent for counterintelligence, now assistant dean at yale jackson

global affairs. josh, do explain. josh, can you hear us? take us through your reporting. >> yeah, i can hear you. well, you know, what we think, is a lot of these forces were already at work before the election took place. now that the election has moved into the rearview mirror, it is a question of how many of these that the former president is facing and, you know, you talked about in the setup, some of the dynamics here. the justice department, the federal prosecutors are not constrained by the pre-election rules they tend to observe. it's unclear whether those really applied to the former president during this period because he technically wasn't running for anything, right? but pretty much it was made clear to us by the justice department not to expect major developments in these investigations during the to months leading up to the election. that period is now over. some of the folks we've talked to say they think prosecutors

have moved along far enough, at least in the mar-a-lago investigation, that they're actually trying to anticipate potential trump defenses and bring in witnesses like kash patel, who potentially go to those defenses. and then there is the congressional dynamic, and i think we still don't know exactly what the republican margin, assuming republicans take over in the house, will be, but that will affect the dynamic of how much offense the president -- former president. i keep tripping up there. >> that's okay. >> is able to do through the house members that he was counting on, perhaps, having the house and even the senate to put pressure on the folks he sees as his political enemies both in washington and across the country. >> josh, it's such an important piece of understanding what his expectations were. that because it's all about him, it wasn't about republican majorities to carry out republican policy agendas. it was about republican majorities to investigate not just hunter biden, but doj.

he has always successfully n his view, thrown sand in the gears by investigating the investigators. that was the entire pretext for the john durham parallel investigation. just talk about how dicey that could be with, perhaps, one or two-seat margin in the house and not control the senate. >> well, we saw that happening in the house even before the election. we saw a flurry of letters go out from republicans on the house judiciary committee and other committees demanding that merrick garland, for example, the attorney general, preserve certain records. a lot of it was posturing. the federal government, you're supposed to preserve your records as the president -- former president -- i did it again -- is learning. we had that posturing and all kinds of other letters saying after the election we're planning to bring up these various issues and call in witnesses. it's clearly supposed to intimidate former president trump's political opponents. i'm not sure with a very small

margin whether we end up seeing more or less of that activity. if it's very, very small, you have this dynamic where it may be necessary for governance for republican leaders to throw the bone of this oversight to the extreme right wing because they need these people to vote to keep the speaker in office if you have a one-vote majority or two-vote majority. we'll have to see how that dynamic plays out and just how much the pro-trump loyalists will be able to apply through that vehicle. >> one of the things that happens when you have a normal executive branch is that things like the 60 days of no investigative steps, i think is what josh reported, that would seem political or potentially impact a political race or outcome. merrick garland respects that. he is an institutional and

abider in that manner. that said, what does that portends for what could be public-facing by the end of the year? >> well, i think that trump may have a brief reprieve with the georgia runoff election. i'm guessing merrick garland is going to construe that rule quite broadly so if there's any voting going on, he's not going to do that. it's important to emphasize that that rule pertains to overt investigative steps. it doesn't actually mean the investigation itself is paused or comes to a halt. but after that, you know, i think it's -- he's going to be like anyone else. i think the mar-a-lago investigation appears to be the most straightforward one that could move very quickly. the january 6th investigation just has more moving parts and is a harder legal theory to put together in a way that implicates trump directly, though i think that could happen as well. let's not forget the other walls

that are closing in in terms of fulton county, georgia, the trump organization that's on criminal trial right now and, of course, the civil suit against trump by the new york attorney general. all of those are not going to observe all of these political niceties either. >> when you sort of look back at the last thing that we knew, that was reported out by josh and others about the mar-a-lago investigation specifically, it was this sort of blockbuster to outsiders, maybe not to insiders, that kash patel had received immunity. some version of immunity to testify truthfully in the investigation. how quickly would that happen? and what would that yield? >> well, i think it could happen pretty quickly once he's given use immunity, he can no longer assert the fifth and would need to testify. and what that would yield is it

would lock in patel into the story of whether trump declassified these documents. now, i don't think that that is a really effective defense at all, but i think the department of justice needs to anticipate that, as josh said, which is a signal they're looking at this and gaming out what their litigation strategy would be. patel would need to basically go on record and state whether that happened. and i suspect that it didn't happen and that he would dilute that alibi, if you will, which would significantly, of course, dilute part of trump's potential defense. >> and there's always sort of the public defense, the conservative media defense, and the actual legal defense. we here in the public on planet earth have to keep them all straight. i'm going to ask both of you -- josh, i want to ask you about your call for fbi director

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than a domestic terror attack on our country and recognizing in the moment the threat and every day since then. asha, you're calling for wray to open an investigation, separate from the ig's investigation. writing, quote, it is more than fair to wonder weather the doj's delay in investigating trump's role in january 6th was due to stonewalling or slow rolling agents who did not aggressively want to pursue investigations into trump. to date, there has been no action taken by wray to examine what failed internally with respect to january 6th, whether as a matter of policy or culture or both. take us through what you've written and what you'd like to see happen. >> yes, i think that there has just been a number of troubling signs coming from the bureau. initially there were conflicting reports of how much information they had in anticipation of

january 6th, that they didn't have enough to act on. but since the january 6th committee has produced its evidence, and what has been reported publicly, it's clear that the fbi, along with other law enforcement agencies, were tracking and aware and monitoring a lot of the activity leading up to january 6th. and that this wasn't a situation like 9/11 where there was a failure to collect -- to connect the dots. the dots were connected but they did not act on it. and i think we need to know why. after 9/11, the 9/11 commission did a very thursday low and scathing review of the fbi and cia. following that director muller did an internal review of the shooting at fort hood. understanding when there's a major failure, you have to look to see what happened. we haven't seen that here. we're going on almost two years. and i have to wonder why.

and i think we need to ask, is it just protocol, policy, things that need to be changed, or is there some culture where even if it's a minority of agents that is standing in the way of a more robust, you know, internal review of what happened. >> i spoke to two former senior officials of the fbi. and they point the finger at christopher wray for creating a vacuum in which questions like the very legitimate ones you're raising are not answered and have no answer. and that that in and of itself is detrimental to the bureau. do you have any sense of what the morale picture looks like? >> well, i think the fbi has taken a beating in the last five years, as you know. i want to be clear that i think the vast majority of agents are doing their job, as they have been the last five years, and they're investigating crimes and doing what they need to do per their constitutional duty. the buck does stop with christopher wray.

and he has been a very thoughtful person. from what i have heard in the bureau, he's construed to be smart and thoughtful. it's surprising to me he hasn't had these overt partisan strains like, say, bill barr did, as far as i can tell. but if he has an information vacuum, then that is a problem. and i think if he's not going to take any action, then i think we need oversight committees in congress to really be more aggressive in asking him questions and demanding answers. >> josh, what is your state of play from the outsider asked? >> well, i think part of -- part of the way to look at this is what did chris wray view as his mandate when he first came in in that tumultuous period after we had the firing of comey.

wray wanted to calm everything down. he wanted to lower the bureau's profile. he didn't want people screaming at each other on television or a congressional hearings about what the fbi had done or hadn't done. so he made a very decisive kind of approach there where he said, i'm not going to do a lot of interviews and i'm going to try to restore a sense of normalcy at this agency. i think the valid question asha is raising is, you know, we're now several years on from those events and, you know, january 6th is something that is obviously a major event in american history and american politics. so, it is a little bit curious that he does seem much more comfortable speaking about issues like the threat posed by china where there is sort of a bipartisan consensus than speaking out on issues like january 6th where we have sort of one party that is interested in getting to the bottom of it and another one that wants to make excuses about it and/or

ignore it. i think he's uncomfortable on that turf, so he's just decided to remain largely silent. >> which is stunning. it's just a stunning thing to hear said out loud. he, the fbi director, has decided to, quote, remain silent about what he, christopher wray, described as a domestic terrorism attack many years in the making. thank you for spending time with us. up next for us, white house chief of staff ron klain is our guest. much more news, another hour of news straight ahead. don't go anywhere. f news straight ahead. don't go anywhere. unlike some others, neuriva plus is a multitasker supporting 6 key indicators of brain health. to help keep me sharp. neuriva: think bigger. okay everyone, our mission is complete balanced nutrition. together we support immune function. supply fuel for immune cells and sustain tissue health. ensure with twenty-five vitamins and minerals, and ensure complete with thirty grams of protein.

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we have to fight to protect fundamental rights and freedoms, starting with abortion rights, and we have to deliver economic relief. and we have to really show that we're going to authentically fight on both of those. >> new hampshire in a really resounding way stood up for common sense, for reproductive freedom and for democracy. >> we all consistly at every level, state legislative candidates, state senate candidates, made clear democracy was on the ballot and fundamental rights and freedoms, including reproductive freedom was on the ballot. >> hi, everyone. it's 5:00 in new york. simply put, the winners of tuesday night's elections boil down to those who respond to their constituents' concerns and needs and worries best. as you just heard from a few of the democrats who prevailed on tuesday, voters were clear about what they wanted. they wanted representatives who will protect democracy, protect a woman's right to choose, and protect and safeguard and strengthen our economy.

for the most part, voters didn't want more of the lies and extremism being spread by the disgraced ex-president and all of his hand-picked candidates. there was no shellacking. there was no thumping of the current president's record. an historic marker demonstrating that even though president joe biden's approval numbers might not be high by historical standards, he and his party were viewed as the preferable alternative than the republican party, who for years has assaulted the phone addition of our country and just a few months ago gleefully celebrated when the supreme court took away a constitutional right to an abortion. something women in this country have had for almost 50 years. at this moment, key races in the u.s. senate and the u.s. house have still not been called. it is not clear who will control the chambers. outstanding races will determine which party does. but we know for sure is forecasted red wave you heard about other places, not here,

and all the election denialism that went with it did not come and will not come. tom friedman writes this, tuesday's elections really was the most important test since the civil war of whether the engine of our constitutional system, our ability to peacefully and legitimately transfer power, remains intact. and it looks to have come through. a little dinged up but okay. a very fired up president joe biden spoke this afternoon about the strength of our democracy. >> you believed in the system. you believed in the institutions. you fought like hell for it. that's the most important thing that happened in my view in this election. it was the first national elections since january 6th, and there were a lot of concerns about whether democracy would meet the test. it did! it did! it did! >> it's been a long time since democracy has been that big of an applause line. i think that's good for all of us. we start with white house chief of staff ron klain. how are you feeling?

take me inside. even a good day, a stressful place to work, the west wing. >> yeah, thanks for having me. look, obviously, you've been through this, election days are very, very stressful days. i will say we went into it feeling much better than the punditry had predicted. the president delivered on covid, on infrastructure, on jobs, on protecting reproductive freedoms, on speaking out for democracy. we believed in what the president said and delivered. obviously, we're gratified by the results the election produced. as you say, votes are still being counted in arizona, nevada. we'll have a runoff in georgia. a lot of places in california aren't resolved. we know already that the president produced the strongest result for his party in a first midterm of any president -- a democratic president in 60 years. we know he's produced maybe the first president since fdr to get every one of his incumbents re-elected. we had a very, very good

election and the president standing up for what he believes in, progress on the economy, abortion rights and democracy and the voters responded. >> we talked a lot about how the biden economy is like the rodney dangerfield economy. it doesn't get the respect it deserves because the inflation story obscures it. i think you could extend that tortured description to the administration. in a lot of instance, and i think tuesday bears this out, the president's agenda doesn't get the respect it deserves. the truth is a lot of the democrats who pulled out wins in the house ran on the infrastructure bill. they ran on the president's agenda. does he feel -- i won't fill in the blank, but how does he feel about that? >> look, i think he feels very gratified about it. i agree. what we've done since we've been here is we've governed. we passed bills with only democrats. we passed bills on a bipartisan bill whenever possible, the

infrastructure bill, the c.h.i.p.s. bill, the veterans bill. what i found interesting is when the president made those congratulatory calls on tuesday night, one by one, members who were re-elected just volunteered up to the president. you know, mr. president, i ran on your infrastructure bill. it gave me something to sell to the voters. i ran on the c.h.i.p.s. bill. talked about our high-tech manufacturing future. mr. president, i ran on all the progress we made on covid. it's interesting, we overperformed in those front-line incumbent districts. the people where you think a party in power would lose, those incumbents won. republican pickups came in open seats, where we didn't have an incumbent to run on the president's record. but those people who are usually vulnerable in midterm knew incumbents, front-line incumbents, they did exceptionally well because they had something to talk about. let me tell you something. i think one other thing the punditry missed, i think the biggest thing they missed, i think they underestimated the american people. the polls show the american

people are frustrated with inflation. we're frustrated with inflation. what they looked at was a president who is working hard to deliver and a republican party that had no answers, only criticisms. and i think that was the choice before the voters. and i think that's one reason why so many democrats won. >> you and i have a lot of things in common, having spent our careers in politics over the same sort of chapters in america and political history. but i work for a president of two whose midterm story defied the historical trend. and i always felt like this year had this gut thing in common with '02 and the capitol was attacked. whether the insurrection was a voting issue or not, you had this gut thing that, well, one party wants to get to the bottom of it and make sure it never happens again and the other party wants to call it a tourist visit. how in the end, in the president's really been out there on democracy, how in the end was that -- you know, was that sort of -- was that the floor and then the policy debates about the economy and

choice happen. i mean, how important was it in your view, and in hindsight for the president to really come back to the themes of his inaugural address about democracy? >> look, i think it was very important to the president personally, important to everything he believed in. as you know, he launched his campaign on the idea that his candidacy was a battle for the soul of america. and at the time, people kind of said, that's crazy. you should talk about the economy more. he said, this is what i believe in. this is what i think is the fundamental underlying, underpinning of it. he got elected on that. we saw january 6th. he spoke out about that. the last week of the campaign, one of his big closing speeches was about democracy. people said, that's not smart politically. and the president -- i think his compass on this has been right. democracy the fundamental thing that everything else is based on. we can debate economic policy.

people can agree or disagree with joe biden on the economy. they can agree or disagree with our climate change policy. but if we don't have a democracy, all those disagreements are irrelevant. so, this was something that was bed rock for joe biden. he wanted to put it before the voters. he wanted to put it directly to them. i think the results you're seeing, not just of the congressional races but all these secretary of state races for election deniers are losing, down-ballot races where the down-ballot candidates are outperforming the up-ballot candidates show you that the president was right. voters want to protect our democracy. >> does the president look forward to not an i told you so. i know enough to know that's not who he is. but does he loo, forward to or is he optimistic there will be any reset, that mcconnell may act like mcconnell again and not ted cruz? what are his expectations of the republicans now? >> well, look, as he said the

other day, he has since he got here tried to govern in a bipartisan way. and he's prepared to do that. no matter what the final counts show about the number of democrats and republicans in the house and senate. and i think the question is really going to go to the republicans. are they prepared to be gorning partners? are they prepared to work on the fundamentals, funding our government, keeping our economy moving ahead, you know, helping to fight covid. all these things are a basic fundamentals that should cross party lines that we should deliver on. things like mental health. the president mentioned this yesterday. it isn't a political issue. fighting cancer. these things where we have strong initiatives. i hope the republicans will join us and help us make progress on those things. this should be a time where we find common ground. the president also made quite clear, i don't want to be naive about this, he's drawing the line. he's not going to let republicans cut social security or medicare. certainly not going to let them pass an abortion ban. on areas where we can find common ground, that's what we'll

be looking for and that's what he's looked for since day one and that's not going to change. we'll try to do even more of it in the next two years. >> what's next for you, two more years? >> well, it's an honor to come work here every day. i work with the most amazing group of people i've ever worked with noo my life. it's hard work but i'm excited for it. and i look forward to coming back to work every day. >> for two more years? >> well, we'll see about that. >> congratulations. i say this every time you're here. every single thing that comes to an american president, which is everything, comes across one person's desk and it's yours. thank you for having these conversations with us leading up to the elections pretty regularly. we're really grateful. >> indeed. it's always a pleasure to be here. thank you. >> white house chief of staff, ron klain. joining our coverage, mike dowd and democratic pollster and president of brilliant corners research joining me at the table, "new york times" editorial, and mark stengel is

back. lucky for us, they're all msnbc contributors. i'm proud to have the two pollsters who called this race exactly as it turned out. matt dowd, you want to go first? >> well, i'm supposed to dance in the end zone or something that we got -- >> i don't know. we can go back to looking at races and talking about problems tomorrow, but i think you can dance today. >> thank you. to me, i mean, i'm not a genius. it doesn't take rocket science, as cornel knows and as you know, is you have to look at the information in front of you in an objective way. not what you want to happen, but what is happening. and that's what i've done for the last six months. and every piece of information looked at objectively showed me no red wave, no blue wave. we would have a series of mixed results. democrats would outperform what they normally perform. that's what happened. i looked at independent voters throughout this.

they weren't breaking to republicans. a sure sign that this was going to be a different type election. the thing you and i talked about, and i know cornel mentioned it, was this idea of people that somewhat disapproved of biden were splitting their votes and not going overwhelming to republicans like they did against obama and like they did against trump and like they did against reagan and like they've done against every president. and on election day, the democrats won the people that somewhat disapproved of the president. so, the data was there. the other thing bigger picture i'll say about the forecasters and modelers and too many of us get caught in this, is history is important. history is important, to understand history. but history is not determinative. and history in a disruptive moment like we've had in the last four or five years is not a lot of use unless you look at it on the ground. it reminds me, the forecasters and modelers who kept repeating history, history, history, this is history, remind me of somebody observing a battle between people that were

throwing rocks people that had discovered steel. and then the forecast rz were like, the people with bigger rocks always win. what happened, the people with bigger rocks always win. what happened was a disruptive moment when steel was invented. that's the moment we're in that i think all of the past historical models on these elections because of the moment we're in and because of the circumstances, as you mentioned, january 6th, the threats to our democracy, all those things, which we've never polled on ever before, before this year, since the january 6th happenings, insurrection, this is a disruptive moment and historical models do not apply. >> disruptive seems like a nice way to put it. our politics have become a you know what show. i think the idea that anything normal still exists was wrong the whole time. there's nothing that's normal anymore. i don't know how many people read it. i didn't watch it but read it.

the twice impeached ex-president gave a people monday before the election when he called for drug dealers to be shot and the bullets to be taken out of their bodies and sent to their victims. he also called for sxroerts journalists to be jailed and hoped they were raped in prison. there was some dark, sick stuff from the leader of the republican party in the culture, the monday before people voted. there's also this history -- and it's not 9/11, but it was an historic attack on the seat of government, the united states capitol on january 6th. one party plus liz cheney and adam kinzinger wanted to get to the bottom of it with the sole purpose of making sure it didn't happen again. the other did not show up to answer questions what they did or did not know about it. this may not be something everyone turned out and voted for but it is, as matt dowd is saying, it is the thing we're living through. >> yeah. well, one, like matt, i will do a victory dance because, you

know -- >> that's why we love you. >> the three of us have been shouting this for a while. >> i'll be your dance partner. i'll be his dance partner. >> i will do a victory lap because some of us did get it right. the punditry class takes a beating all the time. the president talked about it. not all of pundits were wrong. some of us had it right. there was no red wave because we had dynamic changing events here. but there is something bigger at stake than just your -- than the price of gas. democracy was at stake, freedom was at stake and these were dynamic-shifting events. i harken back to some of the criticism some of us have taken about, you know, you guys are talking too much about abortion and a woman's right, you're talking too much about

democracy. when you look inside exit polls -- one thing about exit polls, there wasn't focus on democracy, so a big miss by some of the pollsters. when you look inside the exit poll and look at how abortion issue, the abortion rights issue was neck and neck with with inflation as a choice for why they were voting the way they were voting. guess what. if we hadn't been talking about a woman's right to choose who he hadn't been talking about democracy at stake, and if this had, in fact, just been a conversation about the economy and inflation, democrats would have gotten murdered in this midterm elections election. so, we did have dynamic shifting, big events happening that were, frankly, more important and more fundamental to americans than the current price of gas. i have to say, look, i am

heartened by the results. i am -- i am encouraged by the number of young people who were energized and came out. let's be clear about something. i said this the day of the election. young people are going to save us from authoritarianism. they're going to -- and we've got two really -- two electorates, one younger, very diverse, one trying to take this country in two very different directions. young people are getting in the game and let's hope they stay in the game. >> i want to add one thing. this is a great -- i think this is a great moment as the president said about the peser vags of democracy. what it also does is many pundits and forecasters gave up on that the quality of a candidate matters. the quality of an ee lengthed -- elected official matters. they thought they could unload

the clown car of all of these races. in race after race after race, there was a quality democratic candidate who was standing up for democracy, speaking to the voters about their freedoms in the moment and doing the job, the incumbents, doing the job they were elect the to do versus a clown show. best case scenario, clown show. at worst case, people were a fundamental threat to democracy. i was heartened to see the quality of the candidates, the value of the quality of a candidate or office holder, voters understand. >> i think the other thing, and i think democrats closed on this very well. some of them talked about it the whole time. it was a trap from the right that you couldn't live in a democracy and care about the price of milk. that was never right. that was never the way voters processed it. people are upset about the price of things. some people have difficult choices they make every day and every week but that doesn't mean you give up democracy to have that.

>> not only was that a false choice, i think what the polls may have missed is the extent to which americans overall, and certainly more democrats than republicans, but seemingly independents as well, kind of were able to blame or connect the declined every wanted every of the republican party with the decline of their quality of life. when you think about the price of gas, the price of food, crime, and you really -- -- you think about what has changed, this pandemic, and this former president that has broken apart american life. really the thing that connects that is the failure of leadership under the republican party. and i think we may have missed that a little bit. i think there were a lot of americans who either either democrats and said, i'm showing

up because the fate of democracy is not some theoretical notion. it shoz to do with the freedom of myself and my family and the stability of my community. and also independents and maybe some republicans who said, you know, i may not agree on everything, but this is just gotten too crazy, too out of control. people don't want uncertainty. >> and people don't want extremism. josh shapiro ran a counter-extremism case in the state of pennsylvania and republicans provided example after example, and so did the united states supreme court. they didn't just overturn a constitutional right. they said, we're coming for marriage equality next. >> yeah, people didn't want the insanity. i mean, the thing matt point out i thought was the most interesting thing in the polling and the tabs i looked at, which is that biden was much less of a drag on the democratic ticket than trump was on the republican ticket. for people who have high and favorables of trump, they voted against republicans two-thirds of the time.

for people who had high unfavorables against biden, they only voted against democrats half of the time. to me that wasn't so much democracy, it was sanity. we don't like the chaos. they don't want chaos, election deniers. it felt to me like the fever had broken, the momentum had broken. i'll happily dance with our two friends, our pollsters, matt and cornell, but i hope that is the beginning of a trend. the fever has broken and real return to normalcy. ronald reagan used to say, i trust in the wisdom of the american people. both sides have said that for decades and decades. >> but not the last four years. >> not the last four years. again, as lincoln said, you can fool some of the people all of the time and all of the people all of the time but not all of the people all of the time. that's what he with saw reaffirmed the other day. >> we have to sneak in a break. we'll have much more with everybody after that short break. plus, one of the big winners from election night, democratic

congresswoman-elect, jasmine crockett of texas how women and young voters helped power democrats to victory on tuesday. later, much more on what looks like a win for president biden and our allies in ukraine. the russian withdrawal in the strategic region of kherson apparently timed by moscow until after our midterm elections so as to not help president joe biden. "deadline white house" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. n't go anywhe. ♪ hit it!♪ ♪it takes two to make a thing go right♪ ♪it takes two to make it outta sight♪ ♪one, two, get loose now! it takes two to make a-♪ get double rewards points this fall. book now at bestwestern.com. you've put your dreams on hold. remember this? but i spoke to our advisor, and our vanguard investments are on track. “we got this, babe.” so go do what you love.

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look, the american people

overwhelmingly supported our agenda. low prescription drug costs, rebuilding american, revitalizing american manufacturing, filing, making big corporations pay their fair share. [ applause ] preserving democracy, protecting fundamental rights. this is -- this is the progress and the programs that we ran on. this is the vote that shows -- some real enthusiasm for what we're fighting for. >> we're back with everyone. you know, we should say that the races are still being called. it's completely unclear which party will control the house. it's unclear which party will control the u.s. senate. but this history ron and i were talking about being bucked is such -- it's such a big deal. and with the headwinds of both the economy, the angst, the

underappreciated, disrespected economy the biden administration helms and a president who gets a lot of gauff and grief wherever he goes. it's a big win for president biden. >> it is. there have only been three times since the civil war that the party holding the white house didn't lose seats in the midterm. one of yours is your guy. >> he is 65% approval rating. >> it was after 9/11. in fact, i would actually -- i mean, and biden should take a victory dance, too. >> we'll all be dancing by 6:00. >> i don't think it was talking about democracy that prevailed. part of it was sanity. i mean, i would run in 2024 not on democracy but on competence. as ron said, we passed the c.h.i.p.s. bill, we had -- >> whitmer and shapiro and moore had that. >> it's a false choice between democracy and governing. the democrats have become what your party used to be, the governing party, the people who

are competent, who understand how government works. that's appealing for people. people worried about the economy -- every four years, every two years we discover again it's the economy, stupid, right? that's always number one. the way you address that is by saying, where with the people who can fix it? >> the two structural things i think we'll be talking about for two years, regardless of who takes the house and the senate, is that the supreme court is now a political liability for the republicans for 50 years. it's been a voting -- a motivating factor and political aspect. it's now 60% of voters told us it is a liability. the other thing is, the whole republican party is now steve bannon. they don't all look like him yet but they all sound like him. >> that's right. and i think we can't just gloss over that because a lot of voters, i think, may have been saying, maybe i'll vote for the democrats. maybe i don't like the president that much. but i sure as heck am not going to vote for those crazy people over there. i think you even saw that in so-called blue wall states in new york where governor kathy

hochul barely held on. she did win election. but i think thaurz a good argument to make if her republican opponent had not been lee zeldin, who is far right, had been somebody more palatable -- >> like adam kinzinger or somebody. >> totally. i think there's that and then just the democrats, i think, have a reprieve, an opportunity here. but how it could possibly be they have allowed the republican party to run away with the narrative on the economy and on crime is beyond me. i think this is probably a moment for them to do some soul searching about what policies and story telling and narratives make sense so they can regain some ground there. they should have done better in some ways in some local races. if they actually were speaking directly to voters' concerns over those two issues. and so they have an opportunity -- >> what races are you thinking about? >> i'm thinking about new york. i think there's absolutely no reason in a state where

democrats have a two to one advantage that you should ever, if you're the governor of the state, have such a close election. and house seats lost through all sorts of redistricting. it's not worth getting into here. but kept us busy all year. but i think the democrats really have some real dysfunction in new york and many other places. >> so, you know, matt dowd, you coined the great phrase that i carry into my personal life as well, overreading the mandate, right? something good happens and, hey, guys, don't overread the mandate. what are your concerns in that category? >> i think the democrats have to understand, if i were advising any democrat today, i would be, practice some humility in this moment, be humble in this moment, understand what this moment meant. this was not an ideological

election. this was not an election to do all these ideological things. this was an election to not be insane. don't overreach, don't stay all these things we need to do and all this list of things. say, i'm going to go about doing my job. one thing, and i said this when joe biden was -- when joe biden was on the verge of his election. i said, if i was joe biden i would stand up and say, guess what, you're not going to hear from me for two weeks or a month, because i think most voters tune in they're like, oh, my god, crazy stuff. not joe biden but the trump stuff. and they just want -- and i would just tell the democrats this, this is about tone, this is about governance and this is about staying in a place, in a frame -- they won this election, yeah, turnout was big, but they also won this election on the backs of getting independent voters who were upset simultaneously about inflation

and also didn't want the crazy and all wants the rights preserved, whether it's choice, democracy and all of that. i would say practice humility in this moment. no one has a mandate in this moment on anything. and just do your job. >> cornell, it's 32 minutes and we've been calling them insane, but a lot of the examples democratic candidates gave us, more specific anti-semitic and racist. tommy tubberville in a big rally launching extremely racist talks. social media was showing us kanye's anti-semitic and racist attacks. he was aligned with gab and making attacks on josh shapiro's faith. what, if anything, did voters say about that? >> well, that's -- that's what

keeps us up late at night because, to a certain extent, yes, there are certain things democrats should do about governing and all these sort of typical political things, but, nicolle, we got to get bigger. and what the president, and hopefully can do, is have a conversation about the future and about the division that's tearing us apart and the tribalism and what this means for, you know, mom who's sitting there in the suburbs, middle america, who's not thinking about this. you know, you've got skin in this game. and, look, as, you know, as matt and i do a victory dance, you know, there's a candidate in arizona who we know would overthrow democracy in a moment. who is still right now in the race that's too close to call. so, we've got to have a conversation with the american

people about what's at stake in this division. we can't continue to go on this divide. nicolle, america's not going to get whiter. you know, unless there's a secret plan that i don't know about. i hope not. but america is not going to get wider. we're going to continue to get browner. and we've got to learn to live with each other in order to win the future. and i think that's the big sort of message and rally american people around that's bigger than just everyday policy. >> just to tie all this together, cornell, that's what creates the enduring coalition. what are you teaching your kids at home? what kind of world do you want to live in? doug mastriano, is he speaking for you? the voters of pennsylvania said no thank you. i don't want to thank if he might have had a future somewhere else. to all of you, i'm so grateful. we will tomorrow move on to the

issues that are tomorrow's issues, but today i really do want to thank you, matt dowd and cornell calling out your convictions, i don't know about that red wave. you made us look good and sma rt. thank you. >> thank you. >> we will turn a little bit. democrats across the country were propelled to victory behind women voters. when we return, texas congresswoman-elect will be back. you don't want to miss that. back you don't want to miss that. my most important kitchen tool? my brain. so i choose neuriva plus. unlike some others, neuriva plus is a multitasker supporting 6 key indicators of brain health. to help keep me sharp. neuriva: think bigger.

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among the keys to democrats' success, historically speaking this week, the sheer might of two groups of voters. you heard the president shout them out during the 3:00 hour here. first, women. in house races across the country, they broke for democratic candidates by eight points. this second we've been talking about it. young voters cut up the national picture by age. americans 65 years and older favored republicans by 12 points. americans 45 years old to 64 by 11 points. then the shift comes. voters 30 to 44 broke for democrats by four. and voters under 30, exit polls show they favored democratic candidates by 28 points. republicans did hold the line, for the most part, in some states like ohio, florida and texas. but democrats did get wins in

those states as well. joining us, one of them, a familiar face to viewers of this program, congresswoman-elect, democrat jasmine crockett. she won her race in texas by a lot, a lot. is this right? 75% of the vote? good lord, that is a whooping. that is a huge margin politically speaking. congratulations. >> thank you so much. >> so, you're off to congress. can't say i'm surprised. but what made you think you could do more good there? >> you know, as you talk about texas, obviously we first met as i was pushing back against ridiculous policies and ridiculous politicians, such as the governor, who was re-elected, unfortunately, in the state of texas. and, you know, there was a former ambassador who actually watches your show all the time. i think that was the very first time he ever saw me. he called me one day and he says, listen, if you're going to

do some good, it's not going to be in texas. at least we know there are power shifts that occur on the federal level. if you want to help your constituents, you need to think about the federal level. and he's right. >> so, what are you excited to be a part of? you know, the voting rights fight in washington needs your energy and expertise, but what are you hoping to dive into? >> actually, i'm going to work on the economy a lot. i know a lot of people are probably shocked to hear me say that, but my background is in business. prior to me going to law school, i thought i was going to be a cpa. my undergraduate degree is in business. what i'm looking for is to bring more folks out of economic poverty. almost 20% of my district is in poverty. if we can start to solve the poverty issue, we can start to solve the education issues. we can start to solve the foods desert, the medical desert issues. i'll be focusing a lot on making sure there's equity as relates to black-owned businesses,

latino-owned businesses, things like that, and making sure that everyone actually has access to the american dream. that includes, number one, having a good paying job with good wages and hopefully health care as well as making sure that people can actually experience homeownership. >> that's the top way to doing what i won't be surprised to seeing you do what you do, forging relationships around who can be against that. is that on the horizon for you? is that what you want to do? >> no, absolutely. you know, everybody keeps saying, what's going to happen? who's going to be in control? if we get in control, we get to codify roe, we get to make sure we are looking at finally reauthorizing the voting rights act that i will remind your viewers of the fact that that was reauthorized in a bipartisan way, was never drama before. unfortunately, it's caused drama now. unfortunately, that is what has given a little bit of an edge to

the republicans. because it was a redistricting year. i think put for redistricting, i think that we would almost be guaranteed to actually hold onto the house. but, of course, as has already been stated, we're getting more colorful by the day. you know, they wanted to make sure they could draw lines and cheat, at least what they did in the state of texas, to make sure they can maintain power. >> a lot of our conversations have also been about abortion, texas with its vigilante abortion ban, a conversation we've been having a year and three months ago and also around dobbs. how do you think those issues played in texas, in your district and around the country? >> i think we saw it play, as you laid it out. what's crazy is that young people really, really understand. the old people, many of them are past their child-bearing years,

or should be. they were the ones writing this legislation, or even when you look at the supreme court. the supreme court, many of them are up there in age. it's almost like they said, we don't care about the young people, but the young people decided to show their power. honestly, it's an area that i don't think the democrats have invested in very well. just like i don't think the democrats have invested very much in the minority communities. but it didn't really matter. i think that those young people stood up for their future, they're standing. for climate change, they're standing up to make sure they do have access to reproductive rights and making sure that people can marry whoever they want to marry. these are kids born with so many more rights than maybe they have today, and potentially what they will have in the future. that's not what progress looks like. so, i'm very excited by the movement that we see with young people. we see maxwell frost, one of my favorite folk, that is going to be coming to congress at the age of 25. there is nothing that they can't

do when they decide they want to do it. so, i think there is going to be a reckoning soon, where young people really are going to step up to the plate even more. >> there is nothing that threatens the republican party's ability to win elections from today forward than young voters waking up. there's no graver threat. >> absolutely. it's amazing because i think neither party really expected to have to answer to young voters. and you see that from both parties. if that begins to change, even in an earnest way in races that matter, and i was looking at the math. we were talking in the break. in michigan, gretchen whitmer, the governor who was re-elected, about 9% of her votes actually came from the university of michigan county. >> that's incredible. >> and from michigan state combined. so, that's pretty incredible.

and so the more that happens, the more they show up, the more we're going to see, i hope, some future-minded. we don't pit generations against each other. we need to take care of everybody, i believe. >> part of the reason that so many of our policies are skewed towards older people is that they vote. >> exactly. >> if younger people voted more, policies would be aligned with them. i mean, for young people and for the democrats it's all about turnout. the democratic constituency, college educated, people of color, it's all about turnout. if they all turn out, that is the majority. >> republicans have made it abundantly clear, they don't want you to vote. >> exactly. >> the biggest threat is upping the number of people who participate. it's remarkable. congresswoman-elect, i'll get used to that, jasmine crockett, congratulations again and thank you for spending time with us today. >> thank you. great to see you. ahead for us, that

suspiciously timed russian withdrawal in the key southern part of ukraine. you may have missed it. it happened right after the midterm elections this week. apparently timed by moscow by vladimir putin so as not to give president joe biden a win. that remarkable story is next.

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president biden and his administration taking a bit of a victory lap after the midterm

elections. the president can also -- a win overseas on the foreign policy front. moscow ordered the withdrawal of its troops in kherson in a stunning setback for the russian forces and their endeavor there is as they surrender a key stronghold back to the ukrainians. the region, which vladimir putin just weeks ago declared was part of the russia is a huge victory for the ukrainians as they continue to reclaim their country ahead of what is expected to be a brutal winter. the ukrainian officials are wary about the nature of the russian retreat. officials in kyiv continue to be on alert about the potential of russians luring ukrainians into a trap. with ukrainian president zelenskyy underscoring this in his nightly address by saying this, quote, it is important to understand, no one leaves any place just like that. joining our conversation, retired four-star admiral james

stavridis, now a msnbc chief international and supreme court and diplomacy analyst. i want to grow up and have your titles. i want to hear everything you have to say. first on this, what is president zelenskyy trying to warn about? >> i think he's merely being prudent. he's right on the edge of an enormously significant victory. this city, kherson s geographically important. it kind of controls the gateway into crimea, the big prize in southern ukraine. number two militarily it will give him purchase into russian occupied territory from which he can conduct strikes. and most importantly, nicole, it's so big psychologically. this was the first big city to fall, and it's the last big city that vladimir putin still had his grips in. so president zelenskyy is playing the smart game here, not doing the high fives yet.

but i'm quite confident the russians are leaving because militarily they were about to have 10,000, 20,000 troops trapped there in an untenable situation, unable to resupply them. this is yet another disaster and an example of bad generalship on the part of putin's generals in ukraine. it's a big failure. zelenskyy's being cautious. this is going to be a big moment in the ukrainian conflict. >> it is remarkable that vladimir putin couldn't stand to do this ahead of the midterms, that he was banking on republican pickups as a way to turn off the spigot of military aid to ukraine. how tied does putin see his fortunes tied to america? >> when you look back on the trump administration and see the kind of concern and obese sans

you saw from our president, most shamefully in helsinki at a summit, you understand there is some kind of relationship there. and so, yeah, it would take a pretty surprising twist to believe that putin had anything else in mind here with this timing than to avoid giving president biden frankly a well deserved geopolitical kudo in this particular moment, nicolle. >> foreign policy isn't something voters -- when they go to vote, but as part of the fabric in the conversation, do you think it was a matter? >> i don't know. this thing that intrigued me, apart from this may be the greatest strategic loss russia has had since the end of the soviet union, they announced it on russian tv. to me, the russians didn't have to do anything.

they bury things under the rug. don't let people know about it. i'm wonder debate and maybe i'm reading the tea leaves in a more optimistic way -- is putin bracing the public for a potential defeat in ukraine, a potential withdrawal of all their forces? because you didn't have to do that. part of the reason the u.s. has been encouraging president zelenskyy and the ukrainians to start entertaining discussions, maybe we know putin is laying the ground work for a withdrawal. that's an optimistic evaluation. i don't know what the admiral would say about that. >> what do you think? >> boy, i love the way you think, rick. it is a plausible case to lay out. unfortunately i think it's a little too soon to count out putin. he still has some cards to play, number one. how's the winter going to turn out. can he create divisions in european unity? number two, cyber. he could use a big cyberattack.

he's still holding those cards back, i believe, number three, at the dark end of the spectrum -- i don't think he'll do this, but he could use a tactical nuclear weapon. he's got some bag of dirty tricks, things he could still play. but rick, i will agree with you that this one ultimately is going to hit towards a negotiation. i think putin can't continue the burn rate he's got in troops and equipment. and i think on the zelenskyy side, the patience, the resources, the financing of the west over time will continue to be a challenge. so ultimately those two things come together, and i think your theory of the case, fundamentally that putin is going to have to at some point go to the russian people and say, we have failed here, but we held on to crimea. or whatever will be his ultimate red line. so rick, i agree -- you can kind of look at this as potentially a first step in that direction. >>by lost, but we won.

some version of that. retired admiral james stavridis. thank you all for spending time with us. i'm sorry i was not here yesterday. had a kitchen mishap. thank you so much for letting us into your homes during these extraordinary times today. we are grateful. our coverage continues with "the beat" with ari melber after a short break. don't go anywhere. ere. ♪ there's heather on the hedges ♪ ♪ and kenny on the koi ♪ ♪ and your truck's been demolished by the peterson boy ♪ ♪ yes -- ♪ wait, what was that? timber... [ sighs heavily ] when owning a small business gets real, progressive helps protect what you've built with affordable coverage. my most important kitchen tool? my brain. so i choose neuriva plus. unlike some others, neuriva plus is a multitasker supporting 6 key indicators of brain health.

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