>> welcome back to our continuing coverage of the midterm elections. i am ali velshi here in new york with my colleagues, alicia menendez, and in washington, jonathan capehart. we have got some breaking news for you tonight. democrats will retain control of the united states senate. that is after just within the last hour we received new results out of clark county, nevada. the home of las vegas. and we see news projects that

democratic senator catherine cortez masto will win reelection, defeating her republican opponent, adam laxalt, and delivering democrats the majority in the senate. a majority that could be expanded next month when voters and georgia head to the polls for the runoff election. moments ago, senate majority leader chuck schumer celebrated. >> the election is a great win for the american people. with the races now called in arizona and nevada, democrats will have a majority in the senate, and i will once again be majority leader. this election is a victory, a victory and a vindication for democrats, our agenda, and for the america, and for the american people. >> although control of senate has finally become clear, it may take weeks to find out which party will control the house. the latest projection has republicans at 209 seats, to democrats, 200 and -- sorry, 219 seats, 216 seats.

that estimate also comes with a margin of error of four seats. which means democrats are still very much in the game for house control. if you want a set of how competitive things are right now, take a look at this result that came in the last hour. nbc news projects that democrat marie perez will defeat her republican opponent, joe canned, flipping a house seat in washington state. it was a seat few saw as competitive, and marched perhaps the biggest upset of the 2022 house elections thus far. let's start with the headline of the hour, the democrats are projected to keep control of the senate, of course we also have samuel sanders in washington to complete our amazing panel for the hour. let's bring in msnbc political analyst and about independent ceo, john ralston. john, we were talking -- i lost track of time, we were talking a little while ago. things unfolded, you seemed to suggest that things were going to unfold this way when we finally got the votes that we were expecting from clark

county. this is what you expect it to happen. >> well, it followed the pattern that we talked about earlier, ali. i lost track of time, as well. don't feel bad about that. this is what the trend has been since the election, that catherine cortez masto has won most of these mail ballots, or at least 60% of them. and this was a very large batch, and she won by 2 to 1. it got her up to the point where everybody has now called the election for catherine cortez masto. this is a pretty incredible story, ali, when you think about it. what the culinary union, which went out and said that they were going to save catherine cortez masto during a mid term, in which there were great headwinds in this state, and nationally. you had all of these stories written about how the great regime erected by harry reid which included the culinary union was faltering in the likes of his death last year.

i think the stories we're a brit premature. >> it struck me listening to senator schumer that you actually had him referencing harry reid. the legacy of harry reid, not only in nevada, but to the u.s. senate. >> chuck schumer knows, he knows about the machine, that harry reid built, he built the architect of the area reid machine. rebecca lam, who was a name that most people don't know, but she was the one who was the architect of harry reid machine for a decade and a half. and she went back and talked to the democratic senators, if you cycles back, because they all want to know where the magic came from. and the magic is still there, but the magic is really quite simple. they just have the resources, they have tremendously dedicated staff people that work with, and for lamb. they were able to pull this race off any year, with very few people thought that they

would. don't forget, there were three house races as well but we're in play, and that the republicans saw that they were going to take care. more money spent here than ever before, and the democrats held those as well. they almost, almost reelected a governor under siege from the covid hangover, and what happened here on the economy, and the democrats are going to make gains in the legislator here, in a mid term in which joe biden's numbers here are under 40%. that is very, very anomalous, and really a stunning outcome here. >> and one of the other things we talked about was the secretary of state race in nevada, a very important race not to go unnoticed just because of who the republican candidate was, and what that meant for the election denialism movement in this country, putting a stamp on it. what you just talked about was pretty important, in nevada,

they were able to distinguish between a joe lombardo running as a governor, running on perhaps a singular economic recovery as a result of what happened in that state, and the covid lockdowns. but they were also able to make the distinction between that, and the election denying secretary of state, jim marchant. >> you know one of the lessons of this campaign has been here in about, it is one that i learned a long time ago covering politics. but it really came through, and it goes right to the point that you just made, which is candidates matter. campaigns matter. they do. they put up all of these terrible candidates, not just for the u.s. senate, and by the way, adam laxalt is a terrible candidate. he just hit it better than blake masters, and dr. oz, and the rest of them, but jim marchant is one of the first

election deniers in the country. so you know, candidates and campaigns, and organization, and structure really do matter. and the democrats, in this state, the read machine is alive and well, even though harry reid passed away last year. >> so, the candidate matters thing, it really extends to the idea that if you were blustery, and you are big, and you took all of that nonsense that you thought would appeal to the conspiracy theorists, or the election deniers, and you played it big like deng last row noted in pennsylvania, you lost. like tutored extended and michigan, you lost, we are still waiting to see what happens in arizona, herschel walker, mehmet oz who generally speaking, is much more normal than the campaign he ran, and the things he said, lost because of it. we are not sure about herschel walker, the guy has 1.9 million votes, so i'm a bit puzzled by all of that. but generally speaking, i guess my concern is for the next round, the candidates who are not of the right quality just

learn to keep a lid on it? >> i'm afraid that might happen. but what you just alluded to with herschel walker's drawing power, and jim marchand who is a really dangerous candidate, who ran for secretary of state, and adam laxalt, who is also an election denier, it is not that they were suddenly this repudiation by the republican party, and they lost in landslide. they both came close to winning, as did other election deniers in this state for the legislator, and four other statewide offices. we would all like to think, this has nothing to do with partisanship, anyone who cares about democracy would like to think that there was a pivotal way from these people who tried to undermine the system that they want to be a part of. but i try to be optimistic, ali. i am not so sure that they don't do what you just

suggested, they might do, pretend to be normal. >> john, i mean, any state could have been last i suppose in this conversation, but i am glad that it is not a, just because i'm glad you are the guy that we get to talk about. there are very few states who have somebody as good at knowing that state, and it's details, and it's nuances, and it's texture as you are. >> and who talks about it on a saturday night. >> thank you my friend. >> thank you very much, very kind, thank you. >> he stands out, he stands out by any measure. >> sometimes i just want to talk about pennsylvania. let's bring into the conversation stewart stevens, senior adviser the lincoln project. i never would have thought that i would be quoting a josh hawley tweet to you, but this is where i want to start the conversation, because he tweeted out a short while ago, the old party is dead, time to bury it, build something new. we can go into 1 million

different directions. >> i have no idea what he means by that. >> we are trying to figure out what he means. but i figure, you know what, let me just ask stewart stevens to give me your thought on what do you think that means. >> look, i think when we talk about trump costing republicans this election, i don't really think that that is a way that we should talk about it. that happens when there is a personal scandal, like nixon legitimately cost republicans. that was a nixon scandal, not a republican scandal. it was the republican party that did this. it was the republican party that said, you know, give us power and we will pass a national abortion ban. it was a republican party that didn't have any agenda that they were running on. and let's don't forget, ron desantis is an election denier. as far as i know, he will not go out and say that joe biden won a free and fair election. greg abbott is an election denier. they just don't, you know, go out there and waved their shirt about it.

but it is incredibly disturbing that these big state governors, and all of these leaders won't admit that we live in a democracy. and what does that do to a country? i mean, it is pretty unimaginable, i think that donald trump is going to be the republican nominee. but if he is not, it is pretty unimaginable that someone will be who will assert that trump lost a fair election. so they will be running against not an opponent who is an incumbent, who has a different political philosophy, they will be running against someone who they believe is an illegal occupier of the presidency. and that is just extraordinary, and it has not happened ever in america. >> i guess the repudiation of some of the big, as you call it, waving the bloody shirt election deniers and this election could do two things. one, it could cause republicans, like many of you at the lincoln project, former republicans, to say hey, let's fix this party, let's fix it and the mold of liz cheney, of adam kinzinger,

of conservatives who would like to be conservative, but having normal party, and like democracy, or could shift it in the direction you just indicated. people who don't wave the bloody shirt but still don't really support the democracy that we need in this country. >> yes, just to be clear, at the lincoln project, we are not trying to say the republican party. we are trying to burn the republican party to the ground. because i think that is the only way that you are ever going to be able to rebuild a sane, center right party. pain is the teacher here. and that is what is -- that is the only thing that will make these people try to run more normal candidates. what do you say when you have a guy who attempted to overthrow the government of the united states, and they wouldn't vote to convict him? there is no saving this party. you can only try to defeat it, and doing so save democracy, and rebuild from all the ashes. >> stuart, it is simone, i just

want to follow up on this point. to hear you say that you are trying to bring the republican party down, that was something that i had never heard you particularly say before. and i find it interesting because i look at what happened in nevada, with the rates between catherine cortez masto and adam laxalt. it is about 400, 4982 votes that make the difference in her being the next senator, or adam laxalt being the senator. it's not even possible what you are talking about? now that the republican party is losing, okay, now there is all this talk about okay, maybe trump is not our guy. but we have been here before. so, what is really going to be the difference? >> listen, i think it is going to take a long time. i think that it is going to be at least ten years before there can emerge a center right party. and remember, donald trump is going to run for president,

right? so, say ron desantis runs against him, and say ron desantis has managed to defeat him. well, what would normally happen in politics is, after the primary is over, the war ends. that is not going to happen here. if ron desantis manages to beat donald trump, donald trump is going to spend the rest of his life trying to kill ron desantis. and he will stop him from being elected president. so, republicans got into this because they abandoned any pretense that there was some sort of moral governing philosophy. they did this deal with the devil with donald trump, and as i said, and i believe, it breaks my heart to say this, because i feel like i am in part responsible for it, donald trump didn't change the republican party, he revealed it. people don't change deeply held beliefs in a few years, unless there is some intervening event. i don't believe in ufos, but that didn't happen with the republicans. they just proved that they cared about nothing but power.

and that is why they don't have any agenda, they don't have any governing philosophy, and they are running all of these lunatics. i, mean a guy like blake masters? running these ads that look like the stuff they find on social media after a mass shooter? you know, oz, laxalt, these are really weird people that should not be in government. but the fact that, j.d. vance is the same, and he won in ohio. so what does that say about a party that will support that? >> so then stored, along those lines, i am sitting here wondering, how then, does the republican party react to what just happened. do they react, do they reform? it sounds to me, listening to you, it sounds like they're just going to ignore what just happened and continue down their downward trajectory. >> well jonathan, i think that we are seeing what they are trying to do. they are trying to blame donald trump. they are trying to do to donald

trump what donald trump does to anybody who gets in trouble. like, i never knew this guy, who is he? they're going to be saying that he is a -- before it is over. but, it is really clear that there is a civil war in the republican party. i think it is going to make like the russian revolution, it will make it look like a picnic. you look at kari lake, these people hate much mcconnell, they're not going to allow them to try to return to any sanity. >> stuart, thank you my friend for your analysis, and the work that you and your colleagues have been doing to save democracy in this country. it looks like all of us who have been doing that are a little closer to our goal tonight. start stephens, we appreciate it. >> i want to bring in matthew dowd, chief strategist for the bush, cheney presidential campaign. to call you write would be an understatement. i think it is closer to clairvoyant. you have been making this argument about the central lady

of democracy to this election for months now. >> well, thank you. as you remember, and i was listening to everybody throughout this thing, msnbc column in may saying that history was not going to be determined in this election, because of various factors that were taking place. not the least of which the economy and joe biden's job approval in the data was showing that they were not going to be determinative. i reminded people, reminded people, reminded people throughout this that people were looking at a bigger issue. and i will take exception to some of the things that some people have said in this, history is not determinative. especially in disruptive times. and what happens is, you have to look at what is in front of you, and not what you think is going to happen, but what is happening. and all of the data, and everything showed it. i think what we should be doing, in my view tonight, is not

lauding joe biden, but lauding the voters, and logging the quality of the candidates who figure this out. because joe biden on election day had a 44% approval rating. the same as obama in 2010, the same as donald trump in 2018, the same as ronald reagan in 1982, so this was not a reflection of joe biden's popularity, this was a reflection of voters figured it out. >> i don't know that you could hear that simone, jonathan kaye part and i all said yes in tandem. i will kick it off to the two of you. >> i feel like passing the plate right now, that is it, that is what we do when someone is preaching at church. can we just stay on this thread of bolded underlining? because they think a lot of times, not tonight, not this panel, but folks really gloss

over what has happened here and what is happening. when you talk to real people about what they are dealing with, and what is going on, you kind of feel it in your gut that this is where we are turning to. my concern is, i am just going to keep going back to these folks that did vote for the election deniers, the folks that did come out and vote for the abortion extremists, the folks who said i am going to put my feather in the kelp affair kari lake, and when we are having this conversation, she's still holding on. what do we do about those people? because the threat to democracy is still very real. >> i'm glad you asked that question. you know this history as much as i, or better than i. moments in american history, there are moments in american history that clarify things, but don't necessarily fundamentally 100% change things. so, if you think about our history, as moments happen, the civil war, we get a clarifying moment that we start to bring

equality to african americans. we then have 100 years to try to get it done. so we have this moment of clarification that takes 100 years to get it done. we had a moment of clarification in the early 1900s and then it takes another hundred years in order for it to get accomplished. i think that this is a clarifying moment that proves out that america is a multicultural, multiethnic democracy. this is one of those moments. and people want to get. the majority of americans wanted. there are places in america that don't, just like it has happened before in our history. there are spaces in america that did not like when african americans got the right to vote. they didn't like when women got the right to vote. but we have these moments which means, this is a great moment for democracy, a celebratory moment for democracy, but the fight is going to continue for years, and decades to perfect our union like we are supposed to do. so a great moment, there are

barriers that have been built to preserve democracy in this moment, but the fight is not over. this is a great moment for democracy and for the voters and we should keep giving credit to the voters in the course of this, because they feel they figured out what a lot of people couldn't figure out, that there is a nuance to this, they are mad about inflation and other things. but they are really concerned about the preservation of our democracy. they figured it out. but we have a long battle, and a long protection ahead of us. just like every other person and hero before us did for years and years. >> and that gets me to thinking then, now that we have had this one battle over democracy, we have been pulled back from the brink. to your point about the battles ahead, we are going to see those battles quick in the next congress no matter who is in the majority and how narrow that majority is. i am just wondering, what does that mean for governing, especially in the house?

>> jonathan, i think one of the things that this election demonstrated was that voters just one competent, come leadership. they just one competent, calm leadership. in state after state, where democrats won, whether they were challengers, or they were incumbents, the contrast between calm, competent leadership, and crazy, and sort of hateful stuff was -- it couldn't be dramatic. and especially played out in swing states in the course of this. i think that the voters are not looking for some huge, big thing and the next two or four years. they just want to get out there every day and not feel like they are going to turn on their tv and crazy is going to come at them. if i were advising any leader today, just calm, competent leadership, incremental steps in the moment we are in, and prove out to voters why they were trusted in this election that they were right to trust them in this election. >> but you just described joe biden. >> i was going to say the same

thing the exact same thing. >> yeah. >> remember when trump used to say that joe biden was running his campaign from his basement? i was like, as the best thing he ever did. he sat there and didn't bring crazy to anybody. that is the biggest gift he gave to america, i'm not bringing you crazy, crazy is not going to jump out at you on your tv when i'm on it. >> i often said, i thought during the biden campaign, that he should stand up and say i promise you something you are not going to hear from me for two weeks at a time. i'm just going to get the job done. >> yeah, he even made a big thing about the fact that he was not the twitter-in-chief the way that donald trump was. >> and biden can run his own twitter account. >> and i don't know, ali knows this better than i do, watch of the global economy improves, the american economy improves in the next year, right? the only thing holding joe biden down in his numbers is not some crazy stuff, they are saying if it improves at all,

inflation stabilizes, joe biden's job approval will go back up to where barack obama's job approval was when he got reelected. >> and that is such an important point, because going into this election, matthew, there was this debate that was happening. we were asking almost every congressman whether it was patrick ryan here in new york winning that special election, and asking him whether or not it was the right call to make abortion front and center, whether it was important to make democracy front and center, or whether or not we should be talking about, as they call, the kitchen table issues like gas prices, and economy. and democrats were able to say no, you can do both. you had the time ryan's out there saying that you can message about both. these are existential threats to our democracy, reproductive rights, our election denialism was going to undermine the confidence in our ability to govern ourselves, and you can also talk about the crime rate. you can also talk about the economy. but the way this ultimately broke, the american people were able to make that distinction

in a way that republicans, i guess, did not give them credit for. >> well, i totally agree. i think that if you look out, i mean, sometimes you look at these things. look at a case study. michigan to me is a perfect case study of what happened. michigan has a complete swing state. donald trump barely won it in 2016, joe biden barely wins it in 2020. you have all of these strong women in place, confident leadership in place, it was a state that republicans were going to target, all of their stuff for the secretary of state, attorney general, for governor in the course of this. they became disciplined in their message related to democracy, and choice, and freedom, and the economy. they related the economy to all of those issues. and what happened in michigan? they had overwhelming victories. they won in the state house and now the new leader of the state senate is going to be a woman from grand rapids, who used to be a republican area. and this is the first time in their history, the first time in 40 years. michigan is the perfect case

study and how to run these campaigns. >> you are absolutely right. it was messaged discipline. they stayed on it, they were able to talk about every single one of those issues at the same time. they made abortion rights into an economic issue as well. they convinced people about that. i think they also had the benefit of running against bad quality candidates, but it is a good case study. >> and they took a stand, and they said this is about democracy, all of them, this is about democracy. >> well, the secretary of state who was reelected, he sort of became the spokesperson for secretaries of state. i mean, i would tell you with certainty two years ago, i couldn't name a secretary of state in america anywhere that we didn't interview them, we didn't talk to them, and now we know who these people are, and how they are guardians for democracy, which is actually what she wrote. that becomes very important. you hear the messaging from -- in arizona, who was the county recorder for maricopa county. there are a whole bunch of

republicans who said i'm going to vote for the democrat because this guy knows how to run an election. he knows how to actually do these things. people leaned into the idea that i am going to trust these people, because mark finchem was at january 6th. he was that much of an election liar. i think you are right, you call it a long time ago, and big kudos to the american voter for being able to hold lots of different competing thoughts in their minds at the same time and stand up for democracy. >> yeah. and a celebration of the voters, and a celebration that we at least repair some of the barriers and democracy in the institutions. so it is a great moment, we have to keep the fight going. >> matthew, thank you my friend, thank you for joining us tonight, we appreciate, it matthew dowd. we are going to take a quick break, and we will be right back. back it's nice to unwind after a long week of telling people how liberty mutual customizes your car insurance so you only pay for what you need!

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coverage of the bitter militants, and casey just joined us, and you haven't been checking your phone or anything like that, here's the headline other evening. the democrats will retain control of the united states senate. that is out there and bc news declared democrat senator katherine cortez masto will win reelection, defeating adam laxalt and when democrats a majority, a majority that could be expanded next month when voters in georgia head to the polls. for that state set off -- meanwhile, it may take weeks for us to find out which party controls the house. the latest nbc news protection has republicans at 219 seats, democrats, 216 seats. remember, 218 is what you need in order to have majority. so this is close, and this estimate you're looking at, this is a projection, because there are still 19 seats not failed yet. this is our projection, and it's got a margin of error of

four seats, plus or minus. it means democrats are still in the game of possibly, actually controlling the senate. symone? >> let's bring in -- to this conversation. she's an associate professor at -- and the politics editor for thegrio. it's very good to see you here. we have been talking a lot tonight about what has made a difference in this election. we talk about the issue of roe and abortion, but we haven't talked about the vice president of united states about america, vice president harris. want to get your thoughts on the fact that she embrace this issue of roe, of abortion and one around the country, elevating it, talking about it. the bullet point of the white house is one of the biggest bully pulpits of the world, and shining a spotlight on the issue, i had to imagine it made a difference. >> absolutely, symone. don't forget, the vice president also want to many college campuses to do so. when we look at the data, we see young people, especially

college educated young people are a voting group we want to pay attention to, not just women but men also, who care about roe and a woman's right to choose. keep in mind, republicans will make women have babies. if they take away their options and choices, they're also taking the stretches away from men as well. this brings in a much larger economic conversation. if life begins at inception, this child support as well question mark. i think as some people planned other features and they think about student debt and what they want to do with the lives, with kamala harris around and younger people, this age group of 18 to 25 a law arkansas choice and not just a woman's right to choose but a man's right to choose as well. >> christina, one other issue that comes to mind for me in the dobbs decision, while everyone is focused on the overturning of roe, another thing that got a lot of attention was just clarence

thomas's occurring opinion where he said not only should we overturn roe but the supreme court should also then look at obergefell, griswold and lawrence feet texas, which is same-sex marriage, the right to conception and also the right to personal privacy. do you think the folks understanding that dobbs was maybe the first step in revoking rights from also to people by the supreme court, and that was a reason to jump into action? >> absolutely, jonathan. alyssa murray, who is a msnbc correspondent, who has been ringing the alarm from day one we started talking about tops. she's written about it and been crystal clear saying that this is just the opening window, the opening argument to rollback so many court cases that we have seen progress over years, and as others read about it and concurred -- she and her colleagues, lots of

people want to be histrionic -- >> alarmists -- >> and your being alarmists, this is what democrats like to do, and your woke mobs, this absolutely was not the case. so many legal scholars, if you start to unroll one, you unroll all. the same way with my argument with donald trump. when you are -- you're also eroding the voting rights act, the immigration act. i see those three as -- if you wrote roe v. wade, then it opens the door for contraception and marriage integrity and gay marriage or large. it's a concerning moment i think a lot of democrats won't take too long of a victory lap. i know they want to celebrate some victories, but as we said earlier in the program, we're still in races that were very tight. there were so many people who lost narrowly, because there were election deniers, supporters of general six. they may not be an officer now,

but we start to recognize and acknowledge that millions of americans voted for them and wanted them. >> -- christina greer, politics editor other grow, thank you very much for being here. i think i am seeing you tomorrow morning on sunday show. >> be sure. our >> thanks, christina, see you in the morning. ♪ ♪ ♪ your so you only pay for what you need. contestants ready? go! only pay for what you need. jingle: liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. get early access to wayfair's black friday sale. only pay for what you need. save on seasonal decor from $30. washable rugs up to 80% off. and living room seating up to 65% off. search, shop, and save at wayfair!

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is the election night by the way -- forget it. this is one election night someone ended, and no other election i msnbc's complete that conversation with jonathan alter who has covered so many of these. i am not going to be in play, jonathan, i think you covered all. cable tv news is probably around when you first started covering elections. but you have a lot of history. you got a lot of perspective in history. we talk to historians tonight, political scientists, and the question here is something very unusual happened tonight. some people are calling it a

historic, but there was a confluence of event, some people will say it was the fall of row, some say democracy, some say it's gaslighting or trump or election the no. but in truth, it was all of the above that coalesced and once again, the american voter decided to be the hero this week and say, enough is enough. >> absolutely, it was definitely a mix of these different things. but what really does stand out for me is when joe biden said democracy was on the ballot and people laughed at him, he turned out to be right, and when he gave a speech about democracy at the end of the campaign, all the smart-y pants democratic consultants, he should have been talking about the economy, it's too abstract, voters don't care about that, and biden was correct. the proof of that is that these candidates for secretary of state on the republican side were literally planning a coup

in 2024. they were not going to certify the results of the election unless the republican presidential candidate won. that was what they were planning to do. that would have thrown the 2024 election into complete chaos. it would have gone to the house of representatives. and in the house of representatives under the constitution, each state has one vote, so republicans, whether trump or desantis, would have been elected president even if you got fewer votes. that was the plan, the voters foiled the plan and all of those coup plotters running for secretary of state lost. all of them, in battleground states, so we are averted a coup in 2024 with these returns, and if you look at it, the voters were so discerning that even in states where they voted

for republican governor like in nevada or were they gave 100,000 more votes to the candidate for governor then they did for secretary of state, like in michigan, they understood that these election deniers running for secretary of state had to be defeated to protect our democracy. this is all kudos to the american voter who showed great discernment and great understanding of what the real stakes were in the election. >> here in washington, i want to pick up on this, because as you are speaking about how the american people foiled acute plotters, can you talk about the impact that the january six hearings on the american psyche? the conversation was, it did not move the needle, and it hasn't convinced anybody. hindsight being what it is, were those hearings a big piece

of what you're talking about? >> so you have to slippery out who the hearings were directed towards ultimately. they were people like all of us and msnbc viewers and democratic party activists. the average voter who's going about making a living and not paying attention to anything until after labor day, discarded by inflation, they're not tuned in. you did not see much change in polls. but they had a great mobilizing effect on the democratic base, and when they were out there knocking on doors, making those calls, they had passion behind them, because they knew that democracy was at stake, and that sense of mistake was high-end by the january six hearings. i think historians will say that they were very important in these election returns. >> that history is still being

were in. jonathan alter, as always, thank you for taking the time to be with us. don't go anywhere, our election coverage continues after a quick break. a quick break. psst! psst! with flonase, allergies don't have to be scary. flonase sensimist provides non-drowsy, 24-hour relief. in a scent free, gentle mist. psst! psst! flonase. all good. get early access to wayfair's black friday sale. in a scent free, gentle mist. save on seasonal decor from $30. washable rugs up to 80% off. and living room seating up to 65% off. search, shop, and save at wayfair! ♪ wayfair you've got just what i need ♪ ever wonder why they call it the american dream... and not the american goal? announcer: derek jeter ...or plan? maybe... it's because in dreams, you can do anything. in dreams... you can hold your entire world in the palm of your hand. and turn time inside out...

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and barbara mcquade, both former united states attorneys, one from michigan and alabama, both msnbc legal analysts. and while we bring you here for your legal expertise, i had to start with you, barb, because you and i worked together three weeks ago in michigan. michigan was ground zero for how this was all going to go. you had an abortion question on the ballot, you had three strong statewide elected women who had challengers from election deniers who had out of step views even by republican standards on abortion, and it was a clean sweep in michigan. the michigan legislature is in

democratic hands for the first time in four years. your state was this whole example of the nuance that we have been talking about all night voters seemed to be able to capture in the election. >> ali, the voters had a stark choice this election this time around. they can vote for defenders of democracy or those who denied the election. they can vote for people who favored joyce, or they could vote for a governor like tutor dixon who had extreme views on abortion, no exceptions for rape or incest. one thing that was important about this election is that this was the first election in michigan after the 2018 bell and issued if that created an independent redistricting commission. for the first time, in four years, democrats control the steakhouse and senate, and i think it's no coincidence that happened after the destruction of gerrymandering in michigan. >> i want to ask about one of the big things we keep coming back to tonight, joyce, and

that is donald trump's hold on the republican party, the influence of politics generally. the idea is all in some ways tied to his legal fees and future. i wonder tonight, as you watch the results scroll in, what you see as the confluence? >> one has to wonder if there won't be corners at the republican party that will be delighted to see accountability come for the former president via the legal system. i think you would have to be under a rock someplace to not take away from this week's events that donald trump's total hold on the republican party is weakening. he's facing political challenges. there are other concerns among leaders in the party. he's lost some of the voices in the media has been staunch reporters. even in difficult times, so the interesting issue and why your question is so important, alicia, is how does this play

out at the very moment where there are multiple legal cases that are poised to take on the former president. his business, the trump organization, is in the middle of a criminal child in your state. his business is also under attack by the states attorney general, who has brought civil charges. there are also criminal proceedings, the mar-a-lago case seems to be the furthest along. that's the case where doj looks to be assembling a team of experienced trial lawyers, as it continues to develop evidence, but of course in fulton county georgia, there's also criminal ground jury taking evidence underway, looking at election interference, that special grand jury can indict, but they will issue a report that can be used by a regular grand jury that can be convened really in the somber, certainly after the first of the year. at a time when trump's popularity, i think it's premature at an end but waiting,

this is certainly a low water political mark for him. he faces threats on multiple fronts from a legal system that has been in many ways, slow to move but increasingly looks like it has him in its sights. >> barbara, it's jonathan capehart, we office, if donald trump announces his run for president next week, will that have any impact on the legal action that the department of justice could have against a -- cake against him? >> it really shouldn't, jonathan. there are two things that come into play here. one is the justice department's policy against election interference. we're still two years out from the november 2024 election. i don't think that policy comes in. there has been some reporting that the doj is considering the appointment of a special counsel, if there is a perceived conflict of interest between joe biden and donald trump, by declaring campaign for presidency. again, i don't think so. does that mean anybody that the

class presidency can thereby halt a justice department investigation and acquire the special appointment of special counsel? the special counsel -- i don't think so. i think don't proceed either with or without a special counsel, but no reason shouldn't proceed full speed ahead. >> joyce, i have a quick question for you in probably under a minute to answer it. i know this is tough, so apologies. we think of this victory tonight as symbolic, but it has real life consequences, especially on the federal judiciary. we put it on twitter about how a 51 senate controlled by the democrats will impact the federal judiciary. walk us through the, why would it be easier for democrats to get things done and have consequence on important legislative matters, judicial matters, excuse me? >> yeah, so it's the senate that confirms the presidents judicial nominees. without a senate majority, it only takes a simple majority to confirm a nominee.

without that majority, we would see a repetition of what happened during the end of barack obama's second term, where the senate refused to confirm any judicial nominee, slowing up the process. that not only would mean that it's over 90, close to 100 and the judicial seats or seats with announced vacancies, that those seats would remain unfilled and run for the next administration to fill them, it also means you don't give experience to all of the candidates. you're not appointing someone like ketanji brown jackson to the court of appeals, so she could become the supreme court justice. >> thank you to both of you, we appreciate it. we appreciate your analysis and having you here, as always. joyce vance and barbara mcquade. that does it for us, thank you to my partner tonight, alicia menendez, ayman mohyeldin, jonathan capehart, symone sanders-townsend who is there and of course steve, who was with doesn't spare, but i believe he has gone home. thank you to home was the for watching our special coverage of the 2022 midterm elections.

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