my thanks to all of you for tuning in to watch the katie phang show this morning. we will be back next weekend at 7 am eastern. you can also catch new original pieces of the show on thursdays and fridays on the msnbc hub on peacock. velshi starts right now. t >> today on velshi, a major victory for democrats to maintain control of the united states senate against an onslaught of anti-democratic trumpian conspiracy paddlers. gravity this moment is about

more than just what party holds the gavel in the senate. we'll also look with the direct consequences of this victory in its place in history with the great measures historian michael had loss this morning. and then a twice impeached ex president who favored candidates and underperformed in this election is marching right into the middle of the chaos of the post made term season. we're gonna talk to his niece mary trump and his former personal attorney and fixer michael cohen, about what the denier in chief might have planned. velshi starts now. good morning to you, it is sunday november 14th after a long night. i am ali. velshi next year's congress is going to look a lot like this. the news decision desk to control the senate, defying history and expectations. that call was made shortly after carter county, nevada, released a large votes last night which helped incumbent

democrat catherine cortez masto to pull ahead of a republican opponent adam laxalt. one of the states most notorious election deniers. master claims the 15th democratic seat in the senate is enough to ensure that her party will stay in power for another two years. retaining control of the senate means democrats are going to be able to help president biden continue appointing its confirming and historically diverse setting judgments to the federal court. the should be an opportunity which presents itself. he'll be able to consider a supreme court nominee without having to worry about republican obstruction. and things can only get better for him here from the democrats. senator-elect john fetterman has been the only person from either party to flip a senate seat this year. that is a key victory that gives democrats a chance to expand the majority in the senate, even by just one seat. that could happen on december 6th during the senate runoff between the democratic incumbent senator raphael warnock and his republican

opponents. the interesting herschel walker. democratic leaders wasted no time in celebrating this achievement. here is what chuck schumer who will remain a senate majority leader and president biden had to say last night. >> this election is a victory. a victory and a vindication for democrats. our agenda and the american people. there were three things that help the senate secure the majority. when our terrific candidates. to our agenda and our accomplishments. and three, the american people rejected the anti-democratic extremist mackerel publicans. >> congratulations to senator schumer who has a majority again, and is focusing now on georgia. feel good about where we are. and i know i'm a cock-eyed optimist. i understand that. but i'm not surprised.

i am incredibly pleased by the turnout. >> do you still think democrats could keep the house? >> i am confident they, could yeah. whether they will -- it is a stretch. but everything has to fall our way. >> the focus now shifts to the house. neither party has led yet reached the 218 seats needed for a majority. right now republicans have captured 211 seats. democrats have 205. there are 19 seats left to be called. there have been some bright spots and surprising results from democrats. yesterday, the decision desk projected that marie perez was within washington's third congressional district. this one is really interesting. the seat had previously been held by the republican jamie herrera beutler who was ousted by a republican primary. the trump backed candidates. man on the right. who voters ultimately rejected last night or this week. president biden's approval

rating remains, low 44%. relatively low at this point in the first term and that economic concerns are still on the top of lines, something republicans try to pin, incorrectly and, unfairly on democrats. and historically, regardless of the president's popularity, the -- steelers is a significant number of seats. including double digits which is unlikely to seem -- this. year they still might and losing control of the house or ended with fewer seats and they have now. the results of the midterms so far a report that they were swayed by the republican parties offerings. joining me, now i cannot imagine somebody better than john to talk to this about. this follows everything. hayes brown is a prolific columnist. -- the ms newsletter. hayes, good morning to. you just published this morning saying the freedom caucus is making it very clear how tenuous a mccarthy speakership would be under the current

state of play. the extortion efforts that would be required to gain the caucus's support would only repeat themselves on every piece of essential legislation including keeping the federal government open. and raising the debt ceiling. and the deal that would ministry both survive the senate and avoid a presidential deal would necessarily require democratic votes, making mccarthy's grasp on power all the weaker. in typical fashion, hayes, you will put into words something a number of people have been expressing through the course of the week. the mccarthy wasn't within spiking starkey since upcoming speaker of the house. something he is want to defer. year he might not, get it and if he does he might not be able to make it work. >> this is a worst-case scenario for cover mccarthy. the fact that if he becomes -- he'll believing the slimmest majority. nancy pelosi struggled with this with the democrats over the last two years. and nancy pelosi and kevin

mccarthy is no nancy pelosi. the republican caucus is not the democratic caucus. the number of fashion infractions would endorse caucus. lack of willingness among so many people in the far-right including the freedom caucus to just go along to get along to move forward and have some progress. the onset of kevin mccarthy actually being able to pull together the wins that he would need to actually push for a republican agenda are small. to keep the bare minimum of the government going would need a more product. votes it's just a fact at this point. as he becomes speaker. that would not enter into the, right there would not make it easy for him to actually stay in power. but i can't really see how anyone way to do better in the case if they were to arrest him. there is talk about possibly steve scalise this decade. -- trying to take over. but i do not see how he would manage to bridge that gap. any better, at this point, the mccarthy. a tough situation for

republicans to be in and not where they want to be. >> you're saying he is no nancy. pelosi delivers or more people witness see pelosi. is she can count votes. she cannot hold a vote that you cannot win. she knows shows people both in the progressive caucus and the squad who do not support some of the things she does. so she either prevails upon them to do so or if you know she is lost those votes, she secures republican votes to make it work. by definition, people may not think nancy pelosi is a bipartisan operator. but by definition she has had to be. her problem with the progressive wing wing of the democratic caucus pales in comparison to what kevin mccarthy is going to face with his freedom caucus. >> absolutely. the squad, they want to have legislation be more progressive. to make it more fair and equitable. to make -- possible. these are worthy goals. but they still want to keep the government open and keep things moving forward. i, freedom caucus they are the ones who have pushed -- up to 2015 you gave paul ryan

-- during the early trump years. they are the ones who are going to be hanging over mccarthy. i already said that this point, we need to see a lot of him in order to support -- you for the speaker. well republicans will be selecting who they want to put it first preparedness couple of days. you. theory that maybe holding off on that right now. the vote them others will come in the new congress when you have to be on the floor. and get a full majority of the house. >> that is his, rule by the way, you have to be on the floor of the house. >> right. so if you have to get a full majority of the house and the freedom caucus -- it could be chaos come january. they might hold their nose and go for mccarthy, but they're not going to be happy about. it and that distrust of mccarthy is going to keep going through the next two years. mccarthy is about to have a really bad time with these very slim majorities. he is hoping for a much bigger

cushion to be able to ignore and work around the freedom caucus, as opposed to having them at the core. he does have some more moderate republicans to appease, as well. if you lose one or two votes, and you have democrats to pick it up, that legislation is going nowhere. >> a few moderate republicans did beat a few moderate democrats in this particular race, but it is not mathematically enough to get him into the quandary that you are describing. good to see you as, always thank you for joining us this morning. hayes brown is a columnist and editor of msnbc's newsletter. here with me now is michael beschloss, an msnbc presidential historian, and also the author of, a book presidents of. wore the epic story from 1807 to modern times. , michael good morning to you again. i guess it -- was with you and i talking late last night. i just want to -- we have heard a lot of the things you've had to say. i want my viewers hollywood twitter because we have a lot of stuff we want to talk about, the broader implications of

last. tonight to the point about your wonderful, book presidents of war, it was -- i am not sure has dawned on everyone that president biden, may we are not done with this, yes he may be the president to brock america's greatest adversary to its knees. so it support of ukraine in the invasion by russia. something that mccarthy and republicans have said they will pull back on if they control congress. biden has done a lot of things that his 44% approval rating does not in the opinion of some people, reflect. >> who sure hives. the biggest one we are seeing this week. biggest one we are s eein this week.all of us who love amn democracy, this includes all of our friends are all of them who are watching this morning, this is the week for. democracy is a rising sun that we have seen now, not a senate.

just seven or ten days ago there were a lot of people, as you know, velshi, who we predicted we were seeing this week. chaos, outbreaks of violence. republican candidates who lost the election. the united states denied they had ever lost. and demanding to be installed. there were people predicting that this week we would see our last previous prayer election. look how early earth combs. and -- ? >> a lot of reasons, but one reason is that joe biden decided that the issue in this campaign would not be just inflation. or just national security. the important as a things are. but whether we are going to survive as a democracy or not. just doesn't 1860 or 1940. and so he took the very big chance, which is with a strong leader, dies of getting that speech in your hometown of philadelphia. and saying it again and again this fall.

that democracies on the. what we may not survive as democracy in less people turn in the polls. look what happened. the trial you were talking about just a few minutes ago, look at the last century. 1982 with reagan. 94 with clinton. 2010 with barack obama. first term presidents lose a lot of seats in congress. that almost always happens. unless you have a cuban missile crisis or new deal or a national solidarity after 9/11. biden did not have any of those things. but look what he has done this morning. he and the democrats have killed and increased their hold on the senate. they have, got as he was saying, in the clip you just showed, a slim chance of holding the house. but at least it is going to be extremely narrow. and all of those predictions that to the republicans in control of congress would now shut of the lights for the justice department, impeach joe

biden ten times. all of this is now going into the figure. this is a very happy week. no matter what your party affiliation, for anyone who loves democracy. >> let me ask you about a few of those things you just. mention the 9/11, attack in a year after that george h. w. bush -- did not lose his majority in congress. because there was a national forever about. -- the new deal. you look at 1940 in 1860. you will know more about this. and of all the can have a -- civil war. in 1948 and we knew there was a civil. or in this particular instance the discussion about democracy in the speech the referred to, the biden gave in philadelphia, it was almost ready to operate, in the rearview mirror it, seems as a background. people were still concerned about inflation, the price of gas, abortion and the fall of

roe. but it was not to the exclusion of worrying about democracy. obviously the roe thing was tied to democracy. but it seemed like americans wearable to hold this thought in the, bottom which did not say the democracy is necessarily by biggest threats. it was for republicans. but it was okay. it was enough for him to say, i need to vote. with the idea in the back of my mind that i am a soldier for democracy. >> unlike certain people in palm beach, joe biden appeal to the best in, america not the worst. he said that you have to have a democracy if you want to get economy. you have to have a democracy if you want national security. and also, you have to have a functioning democracy if you feel strongly about abortion rights. and you are indignant about the fact that a supreme court, one third appointed by donald trump, with a 6 to 3 conservative majority, has done that rare thing in american life, stolen away right that women and men have in this country. men are just as involved in

positions on abortion in most cases as anyone else. they took this right away. if you cannot have a functioning democracy, if you have got authoritarianism, you will lose these things at night without even a -- >> if you think other things are your biggest priority, but without democracy you do not have -- >> always. americans of guarded and we sought demonstrated this. point >> congratulations to the american voters for understanding that remark. regardless of whom they voted. for michael beschloss, thank you as. always thank you for being with us all we can last. night and again this, morning michael is a remarkable historian. he is nbc presidential historian. author of several. books including presidents of. or the epic story for making -- in modern. times which is unusually relevant. once again. something notable about this year's midterm elections, every election denier running for secretary of state in a competitive state lost. coming up, talking to people who beat their elections and components. cisco aguilar in madison's

jocelyn benson. on their role but upholding democracy and how they plan to fight the big lie leading up to 2020. for, plus on tuesday, americas insurrectionist ex president is expected to make his 2024 reelection bid. coming up, talking to the former fixer michael cohen, who was by trump signed in 2016 but could not be bothered from his ex boss this time around. cohen's long maintained despite what trump says, he still does not believe he's actually going to run for president again. ♪ today my friend you did it, you did it, you did it... ♪

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catherine cortez masto in the rather means that a democrats will hold on to their majority, albeit a razor thin, one in the senate, with or without winning georgia. the georgia senate race will still head to a runoff on december six. a region, basically. it is about the relevance now the sun has been called for democrats.

i want to talk about with my friend and colleague reverend al sharpton. host of politicsnation here on msnbc and founder and president of the national action network. he was with me last night during our coverage of. this, reverend thank you for getting up early,. mcgahn it's long for. i want to just explore something with you that we did not get a full chance to talk about last night. which becomes. relevant because i've had people ask me, why does georgia do this runoff? they might have to get 50% of the vote? there's a technical reason, for it but there is actually a more important reason for it. that you are starting to get to last night. this is actually rooted in racism. >> absolutely. more they have -- mild judgment constructed there for, is to have a stockades. so in case a black candidates, which was clearly something in segregated jim crow georgia never wanted. and then the immediate aftermath knows they're going to continue that process, how

to stop so they could then rally people in a lower turnout runoff to preserve white representation. i think that we are seeing that in this situation, i never thought they would end up with two blocks in a race. but, again herschel walker has become the appointed candidate of donald trump and overwhelmingly has been supported by white maga voters and they stop great is there. that was not there for senator warnock who would already be announcing the winner. you have to go through this a second time was detracting and giving them some kind of top stop gate or truck that they can try to slow down someone's momentum. >> in 2020 there was a much longer time period between the election night and the redo. the runoff race.

in those cases in less than a month, now. it will be december six when it happens. which is also a change in the voting rights stuff that went on in georgia. also mitch to disadvantaged the democratic candidate in this case. >> absolutely. because it says that we're gonna turn it around quickly. you must ask the question,. allie what is the rationale in doing and less time than you just did it a year ago? what is the explanation? there has not been one. the only thing that one could feel it is that they're trying to rush the process, give or not democrats less time to get the resources. people underground organized. all to the advantage of a republican infrastructure, with a republican governor, et cetera. and this would be to his disadvantage. i think that the people of georgia will rise to the occasion and answer that. but i think that if you are

talking about playing with a stacked deck, they try to stack this deck. >> you and i talked last, night before katherine cortez masto was declared the winner in nevada. the speculation was it if she did not, when it all came down to georgia, for control of the house, everybody, democrats and republicans, with through the kitchen sink at that. raise money and resources. you are do last night's of katherine cortez masto, did win which he, days and this is no longer about control of the senate, there is going to be some republicans who are not all that interested in supporting herschel walker. because he such a unusual candidate. >> i hold to that this morning, being than i am glad -- maestro one. now, the republicans cannot crusade and get a big republican turnout. it will give you u.s. senate. there's some arsenal i'm sure, we were trying to add some

reason for rolling the troops, but it will not in my opinion resonate into -- and master had lost. on the other, hand i think that raphael warnock's troops had to be energized to say we need to try to maintain the majority of the senate, we need to have that extra one vote. because if we have what we have in the last, session for, democrats manchin and -- in both cases of major concern. manchin and sinema. they are going against the democratic caucus which we will now have another vote. and it lessens the impact of manchin and sinema. so that there is a lot of inside politics that they are going to have to make very popular. to get rationales for turnout

on both sides of this. >> reverent, good to see this. morning thank you for. joining us ravenel sharpton is the host of politicsnation here in msnbc, and the founder and the president of the national action network. donald trump is receiving a mountain of blame for the red wave that was in this midterm election. especially from within conservative circles. but that does not appear to stop him from wanting to launch another bid for the white house on tuesday. luckily for us, mary trump, his, niece is standing by to help make sense of his political calculus. tica calculus

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he intends to launch a presidential campaign than. trump endorsed several candidates in key races are lost. so far, ever gubernatorial and u.s. senate candidates will be back in five key battleground states. and they. failed scores of republicans are now blaming the former president for the disappointing returns. with some openly calling on the party to move on from trump. speaking on pbs, the arkansas republican governor asa hutchinson said on friday that trump's endorsement is not as it turns out to be. >> the underlying point is that trump's endorsement comes with a cost. and the cost is that it minimizes your ability to track independents and to win in november. >> longtime trump backer congressman peter king of new york put more bluntly, tweeting, quote, you are fired. that is a message to republicans must deliver to donald, trump asap. i should've been a red wave election for republicans this, year instead saw the gop take back the house and stumble into another 50/50 stalemate in the

senate. the proximate cause of this failure was donald from. he held massive rallies where he ranted endlessly about himself. complain about the 2020 election, and attack other republicans. it was trump's ego, first last, and always. and. quote conservative blocker michael circled it sees a silver lining in all, this in a tweet posted to his 1 million followers. he, said, quote losing always sucks. but at least no one has to suck up to trump anymore. and quote. criticism from within his own party does not appear to have faced trump. who seems ready to plunge the entire gop, straight into a third trump presidential campaign. announcement on the heels of a disappointing midterm outcome, has forced the gop a hand. republican elites rallying behind the ex president, in a less volatile standard bearer for 2024. any republicans or pulling 20 potential rhonda scientists iran. desantis's landslide reelection as florida's governors did not

go unnoticed by trump, who on thursday trying to the minister desantis's campaign with a tirade on truth social. which is his failed social media platform, calling desantis an average republican governor with great public relations. he also claimed responsibility for desantis's last election, saying, quote, ron came to be in desperate shape in 2017. he was politically, dead losing in a landslide to a very good agriculture commissioner. ron had low approval, bad polls and no money. but he said the defy would endorse, him he could win. joining us now to discuss trump's likely next move is his niece mary al trump, host of the mary trump show podcast, author of too much and never enough. how my family created the world's most dangerous man. mary, good afternoon. whatever, i've been on tv so long. it is sometime of the. day it is afternoon. so good to see, you mary. first of all, we were hedging all of. this is the lone trump says he announcing his run on tuesday.

but one never knows what donald trump. and the other thing is it may be a remarkable reminder to america of what used to be. we keep talking about joe biden's low approval ratings, but joe biden represents normalcy. he represents i'm not gonna get on tv and say crazy stuff to you. i'm not gonna tweet crazy. things this is just normal. tuesday we're gonna get a big reminder about what not normal looks like. yes, i think we are. i think it is also safe to say right now that donald trump is the most dangerous person to the republican they richly deserve it. it will be quite something to see the republicans try to distance themselves from the man they helped create. quite honestly, whom we would still be proposing if they had one last week so i don't think we can let the republicans get away with any of this. we cannot allow them to separate themselves from donald

trump. you know what? donald trump is not going to let them do it either. whether or not he runs, i believe he has to announce he is going to and at least pretend to, for many reasons, including all of the criminal and civil cases that he is involved in right now. so whatever the reason whether he runs, pretends to, run or doesn't run he will do anything to take down any republican who dares go against him as he may clear we can go lee zeldin. he is willing to dig up dirt on his opponents, including ron desantis. >> is he being a caged, cornered person right now? is he hearing this criticism? it is all out there. people closer to his base than have been in the past. a lot of mainstream, regular conservatives have, for sometime, been saying it is time to get past donald trump. in this particular case, people

close to him including those in his inner circle, don't declare on tuesday it does seem you know his personality better than most it does seem at all of this is forcing him or making him want it more. >> ali, you are absolutely right he needs desperately to feel relevant. even though people in republican leadership and others in the party have been wanting to distance themselves from him for a while now, this is the first time we have concrete evidence. or they have concrete evidence, electorally, of just how poisonous he is. i don't think that -- they are saying, based on results, they are blaming him. donald trump is the biggest loser of the midterm election. i don't think that will make him want to go away quietly. >> what do you think happens here? donald trump wants to be

relevant, in the face of an election that has done something for him he never wanted. it has proved that he is potentially less relevant and he thinks he is. how do you square those things? you maintain that he maintains the dangerousness in the republican party, by extension the most dangerous person in america. there is a possibility he could run, and win, and become president of the united states again. how do you square those two? it's the less relevant or still the most dangerous person around? >> i think it's both. donald becomes his most dangerous when he fears loss relevance. when he fears that he is no longer the center of attention. when he fears that he is no longer than one in control. we don't know, just what kind of information he has on other people in his party. what we do know is he would be willing to use it. i believe we talked about this before the 2020 election. donald will burn everything

down if he feels like he is going down. we cannot discount that. we ignore him at our peril, as we've been saying for a very long time now. it is getting quite exhausting. again, that is why the republican party strategy of deciding to turn a different direction won't work. one, it won't work because he won't let them do it. two it shouldn't work because they are largely responsible for the state of the party and the dangers that this party continues to present to this country-y. >> after the 2020 election there are a lot of people who watched the show or this network who breathed a sigh of relief. attorney to have a tv on all the time. we have escaped the worst of it. i'm worried for two years that that is not actually true it all. yet there are more americans who feel much more relaxed this sunday morning than they did on

tuesday morning. they think, wow. we another bullet. the bullets are still for lying! the anti-democratic bullets fired by donald trump continue to fly. the dangers that if anyone should try to do it again they know what went wrong last time and there are more sophisticated -- >> of salute lee. the bullets are still flying. we cannot keep having our most important election of our lifetime every election cycle. we cannot keep being in a position where what is at stake is democracy or fascism to let her guard down at this point would be missing a serious opportunity yes it is amazing news that the democrats held the senate, might even increase its margin in the senate. they may indeed hold the house or at least lose it by a tiny margin. we can call this a blue tsunami, honestly, given anything that was going against the democratic party. however, we need to keep in front of mind that tens of

millions of americans voted for autocratic, anti-democratic, candidates. election deniers and pro insurrection. that is not going to change. the republican party's message might change superficially but what it stands for has not changed and will not change. that is what we need to be on guard against. >> thank you for joining us. i think it will be joining you later this week on your podcast? >> yes i'm so excited. -- i have a whole 45 minutes with. you >> i would've actually have a longer conversation with you. i look forward to that. the host of the mary trump podcast. author of too much and never enough. how my family created the world 's most dangerous man. sometimes you write a title for a book and it may not seem rather than a year or two after you've written. in -- sticker shock over the past several months. the price of goods being so high. this year we receive a good of economic news. a bit that inflation might be

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numbers move you. but some can stop you in your tracks. like the tens of thousands of people who were diagnosed with certain hpv-related cancers. for most people, hpv clears on its own. but for those who don't clear the virus, it can cause certain cancers. gardasil 9 is a vaccine given to adults through age 45 that can help protect against certain diseases caused by hpv. including cervical, vaginal, vulvar, anal, and certain head and neck cancers such as throat and back of mouth cancers, and genital warts. gardasil 9 doesn't protect everyone and does not treat cancer or hpv infection. your doctor may recommend screening for certain hpv-related cancers. women still need routine cervical cancer screenings. you shouldn't get gardasil 9 if you've had an allergic reaction to the vaccine, its ingredients, or are allergic to yeast. tell your doctor if you have a weakened immune system, are pregnant, or plan to be. the most common side effects include injection site reactions, headache, fever, nausea, dizziness, tiredness, diarrhea, abdominal pain, and sore throat. fainting can also happen. help protect what counts. talk to your doctor or pharmacist about gardasil 9. according to new economic data

released this week, inflation -- which has been crushing the u.s., could potentially be coming down. not to mention the economy, writ large, is actually doing very well. after months of persistent price increases, inflation drop to an annual rate of 7.7%, in october. down from 8.2%. by the way, this is an inflation chart going back to 1965. you have some sense of how it is gone over that time. this seven points at 1%, was lower than economists anticipated. it may mean the interest rate hikes we are seeing are working. this one might affect you even more directly the stock market surged reflecting on the news. it saw a gain of 5.5% in one day.

there are some years in which you don't see fall 0.5%. this is the biggest thing is they performance since april of 2020. when it comes to economic growth and job creation weekly initial jobless claims which measure the number of individuals who filed for unemployment increased by 7000 to a total of 225,000. for reference, this is kind of where we war in 2019. pre-pandemic weekly average was 218,000. that is about normal. there are jobs available employers across the united states added 261,000 jobs in the month of october. let's take a look at growth. the broadest measure we have of economic activity in the united states is the growth domestic product, or gdp. the last quarterly report that measures the beginning of july through the end of september showed that economic growth has rebounded. 2.6% at an annual rate, that is better than economics it dissipated.

generally speaking if you are in a recession you are below zero. negative. we are 2.6%. seemingly fairly normal. turns out, that is not bad at all. one thing that has been made very clear from the outcome of this year's midterm races, americas are rejecting the trump endorsed election denying candidates. i will break down what that means for 2024 and beyond. in the meantime, let's bring -- remember the last time trump's party underperformed in the midterms? he held a coup news conference right after election day that quickly devolved once reporters started asking him about the refs investigation. >> on the rest of the investigation, are you concerned that -- >> i'm not concerned about anything in regards to the russia investigation because it's a hoax. that's enough, put down the. mike >> mister president are you worried about indictments coming down? >> mister president, i'll tell you what. cnn should be ashamed of itself having you working for them. you are rude, terrible person, you shouldn't be working for

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trump aren't to be believed, the twice impeached ex president is still poised to announce a third bid for the white house this week. in a, quote, special announcements planned mar-a-lago for tuesday night. there is some speculation, perhaps even hope those in the gop that trump might pull back after racking up loss after high-profile loss after midterm endorsements. americans appear to largely reject his anti-democratic, conspiracy theory, sycophants. there is no indication that he is moved by those impairing losses to change his plans. those who know the four for -- have been treated to a series of lies this week about the election results.

tirades against republicans who have fallen out of his favor. it sounds incredibly familiar. the only differences last midterm he was spewing the same kind of dangerous nonsense from the white house podium. listen to this. >> of the 11 candidates we can paint with during the last week, nine one last night. on the other hand you had some that decided to, let's stay away. let's stay way. they did very poorly. i'm not sure i should be happy or sad, i feel just fine about it. carlos kubela, mike kaufman. too bad, mike. mia love. mia love gave me no love, and she lost. too bad. sorry about that, mia. barbara comstock was another one. i think she could've won that

race. she did not want to have any embrace. for that, i don't blame her. >> carlos hugh bella -- is the republican party looking to sign up for another round of that? after a quick break i'm joined by two conservative minds other results in the midterms will affect the 2024 campaign and how a trump candidacy will have an impact on the gop. and living room seating up to 65% off. search, shop, and save at wayfair! ♪ wayfair you've got just what i need ♪ allergies don't have to be scary. spraying flonase daily stops your body from overreacting to allergens all season long. psst! psst! flonase all good. (vo) verizon small business days are back. and there's never been a better time to switch. get our best offers of the year on business internet. help your business stay ahead with the reliable connection your business deserves.

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wasn't and what might be the listening of donald trump's grip on the republican party enjoined that by two conservatives who have spoken out against trump and trumpism. a msnbc can tributary, author of the book, resistance. how women save democracy from donald trump. jennifer vincent joins. as joe walsh of the former republican who represented the eighth district of illinois. he also ran against trump for the republican presidential nomination in 2020. good morning to both of you. thank you for being with us. joe, you didn't get a shadow in that clip we just ran from donald trump about members of congress whom he didn't embrace or who didn't embrace him and lost. that is his thing, right? he is not taking responsibility for the 16 republicans in key battleground states who he supported this time around, whom he endorsed who lost his races. his view is if they win i deserve all the credit. he actually said this -- if they win undeserved credit.

if they lose, it is not my fault. >> hallie, i don't think i have ever said this on national tv but, in trump's defense, why is he getting all the blame, ali? trump's candidates did really poorly. correct me if i'm wrong, ron desantis endorsed the same candidates donald trump endorsed. into his kari lake, mastery nano, a bunch of these election denying candidates. it's not trump, it is trumpism. i know trump is the face of it but they all endorsed the same candidates. all of the, so-called, normal republicans endorsed these election deniers. i think it is much bigger than trump. >> this is an interesting point, jennifer reuben. part of the problem. trump loses the presidency, a whole lot of americans think we are in the clear. trump may declare he is running on wednesday in a whole bunch of people start remembering

these clips from the past and get alarmed. if he doesn't run for president everyone thinks we are okay. ham fisted, he had a crown car of people around him. the things he's talked about. the things he has done. the anti democratic movements. there is a fear that some of us have that other people can execute in a more sophisticated fashion than donald trump can. >> absolutely. look at ron desantis, the alternative to donald trump. his intolerance of criticism, his trampling on first amendment rights, but a does not make him a preferable figure to lead a democracy. the alternative, quote, to trump are really preaching very much the same message. one, thankfully, this time around the american people have rejected overwhelmingly. not a single election denier was elected to a governorship or a secretary of state spot in a swing state. that is good news.

donald trump will run again. the republican party is going to be stuck with him. they never managed to reject him. other people who will be running for him will be trump wannabes, by and large. they are mimicking either the tone or the substance. these are virulent xenophobes. these are virulently anti lgbtq people. they are looking to deny women any choice to control their own bodies. the radicalism has not been bleached from the republican party. that is going to be with us, i think, for a very long time. until they keep losing and losing. >> that is a great point. i am not a conservative and yet i pine so deeply for a conservative movement any republican party that is healthy. i happen to think that is good for democracy. debates on how we execute health care, what the minimum wage, is how the government regulates, but the budget should be. those are conversations we should all be able to have with each other.

things that feel like debates -- you and i have had things that feel like to be. until we have a functioning republican party, we do not have. that joe, do used to hold the idea that the republican party is a burning pile of garbage that cannot be fixed anytime soon? >> this republican party is a shrinking, dying, nasty party. hallie, i hear from these folks every day. really, what are we talking about when we talk about the republican party? it is always helpful to focus on the voters. we are talking about older white men and older white women. the republican party is not going to be able to replace that constituency fast enough to replenish itself. i think it is in a lot of trouble. again, you and i have talked -- it's so much bigger than just trump. >> jen, how do you account for -- joe and i talk about this every week and he just looks at me like, come on, you seem to be a

relatively spark eye. he seemed to be pretty damn about this. how do you account for liz cheney, joe walsh, jennifer reuben. the people in the world that recognize this reality that the current republican party is not reflective of normal conservative sentiment around this country. and someone should change that. joe, you posted a picture, i think last night, with olivia troye. there seems to be lots of you out there. why can't there be a new movement? why can't there be a new party? why can't list cheney be a viable candidate for the next election? >> for now all we have a bunch of sycophants and scared to catch him remain absolutely tied to donald trump. the donor class may be uncomfortable but they are still supporting him. it is not until they lose, repeatedly. it may take another presidential election, it may take two more presidential elections before they realize how toxic this is. ted cruises, tom cotton's, the

rest of them, they have made their career in this performance art. this radical angry hate filled rhetoric. they are not about to change. they have nowhere to go. what are we going to say? oh, well, maybe we were wrong about a nationwide ban on abortion. they can't go any way. are they are trapped by their base. to some degree they are following this base. shrinking and diminishing as it may be. they are kind of caught right now. that is why many of us have said the best thing you can do for the party's vote straight democratic, election after election after election. it is only as they continue to lose, resoundingly. i would consider this a resounding loss. the people who are like liz cheney will have enough support and enough wherewithal oxygen to be able to compete in primaries. right now that is not the case.

frankly, there are a great many of us who said, listen, within the democratic party there is now a very moderate faction. gretchen whitmer, jarred pollard's, the other governors and some senators who have won. these are not radical people. the er fully within the mainstream. until the republican party gets back into the mainstream, many people election after election have become very comfortable voting for moderate democrats. that is a real problem for republicans because once they develop a pattern and voting, they stand to stick with it. >> jen and i fall into the same category of observers, columnist, writer -- joe, you were a candidate. you actually ran for president. you were a member of congress. you are conservative. and now you did not support republican candidates right now but you probably continue to hold conservative views on a lot of things. could a guy like you ever run again and be a member of congress? form part of a whatever this

new party might be? >> that is such a good question i couldn't run as a republican in 2024, i would be rejected. liz cheney would be rejected. adam kings igor would be rejected. i couldn't run as a republican in 26, or 28. ali, to your question, there are not enough of us. principled conservatives who reject this trumpism. think about this, hallie. if not trump, if desantis is the 2024 nominee, that is going to splinter the never trumpism movement even more. i couldn't support a guy like desantis. but many never trumpers will. there just aren't enough of us. >> thank you the two of you i appreciate your analysis and your honesty. i appreciate the fact that you continue to push back on my cock-eyed optimism that there could be a conservative republican party sometime in america. it would be! better it doesn't matter who we are in the political spectrum.

it would be better to debate meaningful issues that people care about. how you deal with inflation, what wages should be, including health care, and climate. we are not having those discussions. there is one political party that has discussions about policy in this country. there's one political party that is in thrall to don trump. thank you to both of you. >> god bless your optimism, ali. >> i'll keep going with. and [laughs] jennifer reuben writer with washington post, msnbc political analyst author of resistance. how women save democracy from donald trump. joe walsh is a former republican congressman from illinois. straight ahead, i will talk to the man, the myth, michael cohen right here in person! reaching out to touch him right now about how exactly what this means for his former boss. the rest of us think expecting to announce a new bid for presidency and be deposed by the committee all this week. he doesn't necessarily agree of me. hold that thought, we will talk about it on the other side. another hour of velshi starts right now.