meaningful issues that people care about. how you deal with inflation, what wages should be, including health care, and climate. we are not having those discussions. there is one political party that has discussions about policy in this country. there's one political party that is in thrall to don trump. thank you to both of you. >> god bless your optimism, ali. >> i'll keep going with. and [laughs] jennifer reuben writer with washington post, msnbc political analyst author of resistance. how women save democracy from donald trump. joe walsh is a former republican congressman from illinois. straight ahead, i will talk to the man, the myth, michael cohen right here in person! reaching out to touch him right now about how exactly what this means for his former boss. the rest of us think expecting to announce a new bid for presidency and be deposed by the committee all this week. he doesn't necessarily agree of me. hold that thought, we will talk about it on the other side. another hour of velshi starts right now.

good morning, i'm ali velshi. sunday september the 13th. five days since the midterm elections, two days until americas insurrection is former president is expected to announce that he is once again seeking the presidency to bipartisan groans. we will have more on that in a moment. let's begin with the radius results from the midterms. here is where things stand and what is still to come. breaking news, control of the house of representatives remains up in the air, democrats maintain control of the senate. that call came late last night with the nbc news decision desk announced that nevada incumbent democratic senator katherine cortez masto is the projected winner over the republican, adam laxalt a trump endorsed election denier. as you can see, the results are really close. nevada does not have an automatic recount law. however, the loser -- in this case, laxalt, can request one while paying the associated cost. laxalt has been a head

essentially until the race was called because of a very large number of ballots remaining from clark county -- traditionally a democratic stronghold. also in nevada, the democrat cisco aguilar is expected to be the next secretary of state, defeating the republican jim marchand, another trump endorsed election denier. among other things, but that means is every election denier running for secretary of state in a competitive race, nevada, michigan, arizona, new mexico, and minnesota -- all lost! by the way, it doesn't count because pennsylvania doesn't electric secretary of state but the gubernatorial state there, doug metronome said he would appoint someone who would do the same thing. we will take that as a win, as well. overall states, only one election denier running for secretary of state, anywhere, one. diego morales in deep red indiana has prevailed. here is an amazing statistic which reveals exactly how important the secretary of state races have become.

in nevada, arizona, new mexico, michigan, minnesota, and massachusetts -- all state with a democratic secretary of state candidate defeated a red elections on candidate. those democratic secretary of state candidates received more votes -- listen to this. this is interesting. received more votes not only than their republican opponent. but more votes than their state democratic when utterly candidate. more people voted for the secretary of state who was not an election denier than the governor candidate of the same party. do you know who the secretary of state in your state was two years ago? this is a remarkable development. the secretaries of state of the guardians of democracy. as for the senate, the only races in georgia with incumbent raphael warnock and trump endorsed former football star, the interesting herschel walker, running for a runoff next month. neither candidate is set to secure the 50% needed to -- still ultra important, the face

of that race, the fate of that race is not going to decide the fate of the senate. that will stay in democratic hands thanks to the latest races called for democrats in arizona and nevada. donald trump has not been taking this news. well the insurrectionist ex president seemed in -- blake masters lost to the incumbent democrat mark kelly in arizona. trump took to truth social with a tirade. writing in part they stole the electron from blake masters. he wrote the word electron. as in a subatomic pronto. he wrote, do election over again! and another post, trump childish lee demanded a new election must be called for immediately. exclamation point. and quote. as it turns out, there is also a video outburst. >> now, you listen to me. you get those brokers back in! here turn those machines back! on turn those machines back on!

es back on it was worth it. by the way, those ridiculous trump immediate post demanding an electron for blake masters are just two in what has been a cascade of rage posting nonsensical wild ramblings on social media. dozens of branson outburst ain't that democrats, republicans, the united states of the country, the media, the murdoch empire. fox news as a network, washington journal and near post has laid must of the blame at the republican red wave that wasn't directly at the feet of the former president. gone on the days are calling donald trump a profit. instead he had not seen as the problem. check out the cover from trump's favorite new york post. quote. humpty-dumpty couldn't build a wall and had a great fall. can all the gop's men put the party back together again? as for the gop's men, trump has directed a lot of anger at a new rival, florida's republican governor ron desantis who won reelection on tuesday in a

landslide. he is now considered a top contender to run for president on the republican ticket in 2024. as i alluded at the top trump is expected to announce its 2024 run on tuesday. it should not come as a surprise anyone that a significant portion of his vitriol is now aimed at fellow republican, ron desantis, who is presumed to have further presidential ambitions -- at the end of a long, rambling, largely incoherent statement attacking desantis. trump revealed, perhaps accidentally, his deep -- >> the fake news asked him if he is going to run, if president trump runs and he says, i'm only focused on the governor's race. i'm not looking into the future. well, in terms of loyalty in class, that's really not the right answer. and quote. that is a lot. i'm sure you don't want to have to talk about this again someone who joins donald trump better than most people, former

personal attorney, michael cohen. michael is a host of the very important mea culpa podcast. very interesting. i have had the chance to be on if you time. author of revanchist, donald trump weaponized the department justice against his critics. and, disloyal, a memoir of the former personal attorney and president donald j trump. there is a lot there, my friend. thank you for coming in. >> good to see you. -- >> there is a lot to unpack, including the, do you believe he is going to declare he will run for president on tuesday? you have generally not thought that was going to happen. there are people around him -- people around public and privately to not do this. >> that would include both his daughter and his son-in-law. as well as a host of other people. >> running would not be good for jarred and uncle am. >> it would not be good. he pulled down 600 million, two and a half billion from the saudis. they have done very well from the time in the white house. one of the things, also --

as i maintained on their show. i believe that jarred is the moral. i booed find very interesting if donald somehow managed to get back into the white house could you imagine if you have an fbi informant as a senior adviser to the president? there are many -- >> what makes you think? that >> there is just too much information out there right now that only someone within the circle of trust would actually now. for example, where these top secret documents are. they are not even the important part anymore. -- i've talked to you about this, a lot. donald is not going to run. there is no benefit. i listen to these pundits talk about, if he declares his candidacy than all of these legal issues go away. they do not! just because you announced that you want to run for the presidency, it doesn't stop the james case in the attorney general here in new york. the georgia case that is coming up. in the district attorney case in new york. any of the multitude of cases

currently pending against donald. there is no effect on. it could be a match in it every single person who's committed a crime. turns out, i'm gonna run for the presidency. this is all going to be state. that is not how it works. on top of that, more importantly, donald has a fragile legal. there is not a diaper big enough for him to actually be called a loser again. statistically, you just posted it on your show, statistically he has more unfavorable than joe biden's to the country, no one thought that was even possible. no one thought that they would keep the senate he is so wildly unpopular but also within his own party, that there is no way in the world he is going to end up running. by the way, can i say one more thing? now that georgia is really off the table -- they have a. they have that 50 number. what do you think, a lot of

they have to wait until tuesday? oh, all way into after georgia. that is december 6th, that is not tuesday. he's already trying to push that down the road. georgia is not relevant anymore, right? it's relevant because we want to win it, it's not relevant in the scheme of things. announce tomorrow. let's see it, big man. announced mom! >> let's talk about a republican party. you were a senior official in the republican party. >> and as a democrat. people forget! that i have always been a democrat. i get a lot of ribbing on social media. you only became a democrat after donald three under the bus. that's not true. i've been a democrat in the. 80 >> you held office in republican party. very senior office. >> listen, this world is interesting! >> i guess so. >> the point i'm getting at is the republican party, officially supports donald trump. they will not support someone running against him. they will eliminate, like they did last time -- joe walsh, bill weld. all of these other guys ran, they just eliminated the primary. they will not allow candidate

to run against donald trump if donald trump wants to win. ron desantis -- sanctimonious as he likes to call him. what do you think of joe walsh that there? it doesn't matter. there is trump and trumpism. ron desantis, not his friend right now, they do support a lot of the same things. >> i think the republican party has now come to the realization that donald is not good for the party. i do not agree with joe on that. i believe that ron desantis, if in fact he announced, the republican party would do what they did when donald first announced his candidacy in 2015. they would take a step back. turn around and say, you know what? let's let the process play out. we will see who republicans. want me, personally, i am not a fan of ron desantis either. i think he is donald trump two point oh. are we actually doing better for this country? having someone like ron desantis? i would rather see someone like joe walsh. >> who is honest about who he

is. how he has come by his conservative principles and stuck by them. >> what about all the stuff from the wall street journal? fox, murdoch, and the new york post? all of these institutions that donald trump dependent on, twitter who knows -- he has not had the same sway that twitter had. >> there is eight people on, how could? >> donald trump is losing -- as i was talking to mary trump earlier that stuff him back off and reconsider, it seems to make him want it more. >> i'm not sure i agree with mary on that point. i do agree with a lot of the things that she says but i'm not sure -- remember what we did during the campaign. look at what donald did, he attacked ted cruz. he put the photo, the national enquirer of ted cruz's father with lee harvey oswald with the caption, ted cruz's father killed jfk. that is to mark rubio with the

swimming pool, naked, claiming it was a cocaine binge. he's able to use the friendship, the power, the relationship with fox news court to continue to promote these lies, this misinformation disinformation malinformation. he no longer has that. he is really isolated to himself and his social. it has eight people on. no one cares! you are probably one of the eight people. i'm not on it. i don't see what untrue social has to say. i don't care what he has to say! in fact, the republican party doesn't care what donald had to say anymore. yes, he has millions of people -- 18% of the republican party and waning. give it two years. he will become more and more inconsequential. he will become more and more irrelevant. it will drive him crazy, he will say more bombastic stuff along with don junior -- erica say start screaming and yelling on how their dad was

unjustly treated insulin! none of that matters. the case is going to finish, he's going to end up -- in my opinion, indicted. incarcerated? we don't know. that will be up to the jury but things are not going well for donald. it would not make sense for him joining this 2024 race. >> you have been consistent in your approach on this. thank you for coming in, my friend. good to see. >> always good to see you my friend. >> michael cohen donald trump's former personal fixer and attorney. host of the mea culpa cast. his latest book is called revenge. how donald trump weaponize the department of justice against his critics. his earlier book, disloyal. still ahead! abortion was on the ballot, literally, in states across the nation including fremont, california, montana, kentucky and in michigan. spoiler letter, voters actually care about their bodily autonomy. what this could mean for the future on the fight for abortion rights. plus, democrats spent millions on email blast and tv ads for

far-right candidates. you heard me right, a counter into a strategy paid off for democrats in six very high stakes races. after the break, the senate was not the only major win in nevada last night. the democrat, cisco aguilar won the secretary of state race. he joins me next. you are watching velshi. tching velshi. ♪ kevin! kevin! kevin? oh nice. kevin, where are you... kevin?!?!?.... hey, what's going on? i'm right here! i was busy cashbacking for the holidays with chase freedom unlimited. i'm gonna cashback on a gingerbread house! oooh, it's got little people inside! and a snowglobe. oh, i wished i lived in there. you know i can't believe you lost another kevin. it's a holiday tradition! that it is! earn big time with chase freedom unlimited. ♪ earn big time with chase freedom unlimited. when our daughter and her kids moved in with us... our bargain detergent couldn't keep up. turns out it's mostly water. so, we switched back to tide. one wash, stains are gone. [daughter] slurping

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called last night was for the secretary of state. this is probably fully under your radar given the crucial nevada senate race, that is one of those where democracy was on the line. nbc news can project the democrat cisco aguilar has won nevada secretary of state race, it was a close one. aguilar peter publican opponent jim marchand by two points. the race for that is top right elections officials and closely watched. marchand, the former state legislators been a prominent

promoter of the big lie, about the 2020 election. he has continued to insist that president joe biden did not win the presidency. in 2022, marchant pushed for a so-called slate of alternate electors, and the sense expressed the possibility of making a similar push in future elections. so you can see why the loss from marchant is a win for democracy. and now, i want to welcome in nevada secretary of state-elect, cisco aguilar, who make history as the virus first latino secretary of state. congratulations sir, thank you for joining us this morning. >> good morning, thank you for having me. i am super excited, proud of our team and excited to get to work. >> well look, i often say to our viewers, the two or three years ago, i did not know any secretaries of state, i truly would not have known who is running, where they were, and some people you know, on social media, they mocked me, that's what bad journalism is, do not know who these people are, there was no reason for me to know because people like, you the job you are going to do, different jobs in different states, in your case, you do not certify elections, but he

will set rules and enforce those rules. and i was, like most americans, i thought those rules generally worked until they were brought into doubt in 2020. the issue over here is the rules actually do it work, but the doubt which was sowed around the job, that people like you had to do, suppress the votes, that makes people worry about elections. >> absolutely. the job of secretary of state in nevada is one where, you oversee corporate and security filings, you are a regulator of elections here in nevada, which we all know coming to 2024, we know nevada will be a major battleground state. we will have an opportunity to choose the next president of the united states, it's the responsibility of them to be a regulator. i was appointed to the nevada athletic position to republican senators, i served two years as chairs, i know it is to be a regulator, to set statute, passing statute to be -- for all nevadans for election.

>> in fact, in neighboring arizona, the person who has become the secretary of state there, adrienne fontes, was the county recorder in maricopa county, and a lot of republicans supported him because they said the guy knows how to be elections regulator. and now, for those of us who two or three years ago did not know much about secretaries of state, i want people who know how to be election regulators. i want people to know how to follow rules, i want people who know how to enforce rules. actually, this is an administration job that suddenly has become remarkably important. your job has gone from being something that existed, your next job, something that existed in relative obscurity, into one of the most important jobs across the country! >> absolutely. and i think voters are looking for someone who is not going to create chaos, they have enough of that in their lives, enough problems. we face kitchen table issues every day in nevada, among our working class. they want to know someone will have their back, who will have the job they are supposed to do. this is not about democratic or

republican priorities, but making sure voters have access to the ballot box, that people have the opportunity to express their voice and have an opinion about our future. >> more broadly, i want to ask about nevada, i typically would not do this except you were a former staffer for harry reid, the late harry reid. there were many concerns, and hand wringing about the fact that harry reid was such a big presence in the nevada elections, on an organizing level, that his absence was going to cost democrats very heavily in nevada this election cycle. tell me about how you evaluate those statements, and the outcome. >> absolutely. as the last candidate senator reid endorsed, i have a huge responsibility, ensuring's legacy was continuing throughout our state. i am excited to be able to represent the senator, to drive the issues he had for our state. his legacy continues to be strong. he has been active in everything we have, some of the voter access laws we have in nevada, they give everybody the opportunity to work early, by mail, to the same day voted

registration. it all comes from a vision he had for the voters of nevada, i'm excited to turn that legacy into the work he wanted all of us to do. >> your race was close, all of the races in nevada and arizona were close, close races all over the country in terms of victories over election deniers, as we pointed out, one success in indiana, but every other case was a loss. this doesn't -- this gives those of us who like democracy a little bit of a breather, a bit of a sigh of relief. a binot that big, with the breah of fresh air i take it does not feel my lungs, right now. >> look, it is an incredible victory, the fact that nevada went from a republican secretary of state to a democrat, the only state in the country to put the secretary of state's office, i'm proud of that effort, extremely grateful for the secretary of state's, the democrats who put this work into my race, and making sure we were competitive, selling division nevada voters wanted. we will continue to fight for all nevadans, we need to make sure our state has access to

the ballot box, where that you are republican or democrat. that is my responsibility to get out there, and be honest, transparent. and i will be truthful with people. i think i put my campaign on a foundation of not falsehood, lies, need to break them down, and reestablish trust through the state of nevada. >> what an important job to have you. good luck. cisco i will, or the democratic secretary of state-elect. coming up, i am pleased to tell you that democracy did not die on tuesday. the most dangerous election deniers were defeated, but it does not mean as we were just discussing, that we are out of the woods. the woods. announcer: derek jeter ...or plan? maybe... it's because in dreams, you can do anything. in dreams... you can hold your entire world in the palm of your hand. and turn time inside out... again and again. and you can do it all with your eyes wide open.

(vo) verizon small business days are back. and there's never been a better time to switch. get our best offers of the year on business internet. help your business stay ahead with the reliable connection your business deserves. book your appointment today. and switch to the network america relies on. verizon. life... doesn't stop for diabetes. be ready for every moment, with glucerna. it's the number one doctor recommended brand that is scientifically designed to help manage your blood sugar. live every moment. glucerna. >> by now, you heard about the staggering number of big lie candidates on the ballot's midterm election. by nbc news count, 268 election lawyers, deniers and doubters ran for governor, secretary of state, senate and house of representatives this year. the big lie and trump's attempt

to subvert the 2020 election hinged in part on the election officials, usually the secretary of state, whose responsibility it was to make election rules and certify vote tallies. we just spoke to nevada's next secretary of state, cisco aguilar. his victory means every election lie are running for a top election position in a battleground state lost. not in all states, but in a battleground state. there was one victory in indiana. the most dangerous of these big lie promoters were defeated. we can all sigh, and allow ourselves as i mentioned, a sigh of relief at those victories. but not a deep breath in. the threat to democracy remains critical. according to nbc, at least 167 republican candidates who have cast doubt on the 2020 election did win their race. yesterday on the show, i spoke with historian joanne freeman, who offered this insight, and warning about what comes next. >> this is not a moment to let down our guard. because i think when you look

down the long haul of american history, and you look at really fraught elections, elections where it felt as though there was a turning point, at hand, it is interesting to see what happens after the election. what do people do, who are expected to win, who felt entitled to win? what is it they do when they don't get what they feel entitled to? and also, they are already prone to not already the cozy with the democratic system. >> are we not cozy with democratic system? this is america, get cozy, people! now joining us is jocelyn benson, secretary of state of michigan, just won her reelection, against her republican candidate, who pushed election lies. she and her running team all actually won, so did their abortion ballot measure, so to the state legislature, house and senate. secretary benson, thank you for being with us, congratulations on your victory. you have been such a great friend to this show, in our discussions about democracy.

i guess we have to start with a congratulations to the american voter, they stepped into the breach, they decided they were actually warriors for democracy, not voters in a midterm election. >> yes, exactly. this is a victory not just for democracy, but for voters. clearly and unequivocally said, across the aisle, even republicans, independents, they rejected those who sought to use these officers to further their own agenda. and in doing so, they really squelched the idea, voters don't, that it should be a political strategy to try to deny the results of the election. so is not lost on me, soon after the election, without two major candidates concede after they had lost. also, it really underscored this is a losing strategy, to try to disrupt democracy, and voters clearly, unequivocally, stated that on tuesday. >> you have been talking to me about this for sometime, voters are not idiots. secretaries of state, want safe votes. you don't want anything hanging

on you about a bad election. you like audits, in fact. you think elections should be audited. you think rules should be reviewed, except all of that happened after 2020, particularly in your state. so you are able to say to people, were able to message in this election to michigan voters, the voting is safe. the counting is safe. and your vote matters. ultimately, the message to people, if they understand voting is safe, is my vote counts. >> exactly. adel strategy here behind the attack on democracy is to get people to stop believing in the power of their voice. what is so beautiful about this election, voters said no, we do have the power. let us show you how! that is really what democracy is all about. that is why it is such a significant defeat, those who tried to undermine democracy, spreading lies about fraud, knowing our elections are safe and secure. voters said no, we look at the data, the facts, we will stand with the professionals who protect our voices, and protect our votes. >> one of the things you were able to do in michigan, because

michigan will go down as the case study of this election, because you had, everything happened to you in michigan. voter challenges, bipartisan stuff, thick electorates, kidnapping attempt on your governor, and then actual abortion question, one of the five that were on the ballot. you had it all. when we spoke three weeks ago, when i was in michigan, we had republicans who were telling me that they were not aligned with what their republican, statewide candidates, the views that they held both on abortion and on elections. in fact, the head of the republican in michigan put out this remarkable statement, in which basically, he said the quality of our candidates was the problem. owe can't win elections with people who are such outliers to voters who actually believe both in democracy and in the protection of rights, as it related to your state, with abortion. >> yes, voters, they want leaders who will tell them the truth, who will rely on facts and data to make decisions

which further their interest. that's what i have done as secretary of state, forming our dmv to make it work for everyone, that's what i've done is a chief election officer. and also as you mention, voters by showing up to vote in our election, towards selecting candidates that further their values, they were making a statement on a policy, the ballot initiatives, to enshrine roe, to ensure and the fundamental right to vote in our state constitution. there was a pivotal factor, it should be for young voters and others who should, show up in record numbers. we are the highest turnout ever in our state. >> even in that proposal number three, that one, when i spoke to republicans while i was in michigan about that. many of them said to me, the reason i don't want to support the system is because, it has this provision by which children can have gender change in surgery, without their parents consent. that is just not true, it was not there! look, even something you could pull up on your phone and read it was subject to misinformation, that worries

me. that worries me that the work is not done, that people are so prone to listening to lies. >> well, yes. and although they rejected the lies and liars in this election, they have not gone away. any falsehoods, misinformation is still prevalent, not just in michigan but states around the country. what voters do not hold accountable at the ballot box, the liars had not necessarily gone away. and we will see next week whether the former liar in chief, the former president, donald trump, whether he gets back into the fray. also, that was a factor in past elections where liars were empowered. here in 2022, as fact checkers, the truth tellers were in power, we won. but voters need to keep showing up to ensure that we can keep winning on the truth, not on the lies, especially as we climb towards the 2024 presidential election, which is right around the corner. >> jocelyn benson, thanks again for all is joining us to have these remarkably important discussions. congratulations on your reelection, jocelyn benson is

the secretary of state of michigan. right after the break, democrats used a risky strategy during the primaries, that too many of us -- me in particular, seemed like playing with fire. it seems now, the midterm results are in, and it paid off big, it could even be a framework for 2024, we will discuss it on the other side. the other side with the reliable connection your business deserves. book your appointment today. and switch to the network america relies on. verizon. hi, i'm eileen. i live in vancouver, washington and i write mystery novels. dogs have been such an important part of my life. i have flinn and a new puppy. as i was writing, i found that i just wasn't as sharp and i new i needed to do something so i started taking prevagen. i realized that i was much more clear and i was remembering the details that i was supposed to. prevagen keeps my brain working right. prevagen. healthier brain. better life.

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(vo) verizon small business days are back. and there's never been a better time to switch. get our best offers of the year on business internet. help your business stay ahead with the reliable connection your business deserves. book your appointment today. and switch to the network america relies on. verizon. >> well, democrats found an interesting winning strategy, at least in some cases, it's one that might surprise you, boosting maga aligned far-right candidates. according to the washington post, democrats spent $53 million on everything from tv ads to email blasts for 13 republican candidates, during the primary season. democrats tried to boost these candidates in their primary races, in the hopes that the general election voters would deem them to be too extreme. the tactic, albeit controversial on both the right and the left appears to have worked this time around. according to the nbc news

political unit, at least six republicans who are boosted by democrats in their primary races lost their elections on tuesday night. one of the most obvious examples of, course is a pennsylvania governor's race. during the state primary, the democratic candidate josh shapiro ran ads emphasizing the conservative credentials of his opponent, republican doug mastriano, who has publicly denied the results of the 2020 election, and holds a slew of extreme views. according to the nbc news decision desk, chef shapiro beat mastriano by more than 14 points. joining me now is jonathan capehart, host the morning show on msnbc, on who are spending a great deal of work with, over the last seven days. it has all been fantastic, jonathan. i'm glad for the time we had together. >> really fun. >> let me tell you this, i had a lot of people tweet on social media to say, velshi is one of the people whose out it was a bad strategy, and he has not apologized for it yet. i'm not apologizing for it, i think it's a terrible strategy, but it did work. i can admit the fact that it worked. my fear is elevating these

boots, and something going wrong, and them winning. that is my complete fear about this. that you might have had, look at john fetterman, having a stroke right at the beginning of his campaign. he prevailed, but what would happen if he had not as a result of that, and the candidate whom democrats had encouraged had prevailed, like a doug mastriano? so i am just worried, when you allow these people a bigger platform, it could be dangerous? >> you know, ali, you are absolutely right to not apologize. yes, i agree with you 100%. as a political tactic, i think it was very smart, but my big problem is, that would have been great if we were in normal times. we were dancing on the precipice here, in terms of our democracy. the stakes were so incredibly high. if josh shapiro had not, one if doug mastriano had been elected governor of pennsylvania, mastriano would be appointing

the secretary of state instead of josh shapiro, and he is an election denier. if kari lake wins in arizona, it is the same issue applying. we are very lucky that the democratic tactic over boosting these crazy candidates to getting the republican nomination and then the democrat beating them, that it actually worked. >> let's talk about the thing that most surprised you, and most concerned you about this thing. people say, what was your biggest upset surprise, or relief? that was john fetterman winning in pennsylvania, because that was an awful close race. my biggest on settlement is we don't have a gubernatorial call in arizona yet. kari lake could still become governor of arizona? >> right. that is a concern of mine as well. but the biggest surprise, and it is a happy surprise is that the american people, who a lot of us in this business did not give enough credit to, or respect their intelligence

enough, showed us, showed the nation -- and the world -- but as you said, as i believe it was on tuesday, early wednesday morning, ali, that the american people are a lot more nuanced. they are nuanced! they are able to you know, be upset about the economy, upset about inflation but also be upset about abortion rights, about the erosion of american democracy, and to act accordingly. so that is my very happy surprise. and that swamps any disappointment or shock that could have come out of tuesday. >> jonathan, thank you, my friend. it has been a good week. i hope we spend more time together, normally, as opposed to because we are on the edge of our seats because of an election. that would be great. jonathan capehart, catch his hour of the sun's show, he will speak with the democratic congressman elect maxwell frost of florida, the first member of generation z to be elected to

congress, just old enough to have gotten elected, a great conversation! coming up, the post-roe fight for abortion played a major role for these midterms, with the battle for reproductive rights far being over, this is velshi. r, this is velshi ase. leon's saving up for his first set of wheels... nice try. really? this leon's paying for his paint job on the spot... and this leon, as a chase private client, he's in the south of france, taking out cash with no atm fees. that's because this family of leons has chase. actually, it's león. ooh la la! one bank for now. for later. for life. chase. make more of what's yours. grandmom! walgreens find rx coverage is here to make medicare easy... even easier than those dances your grandkids love doing with you. ok, i got it. (laughs) start medicare shopping today with walgreens find rx coverage. ♪♪ plus, find low-cost copays.

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option to vote on abortion rights, people chose to support them. that's not just conjecture, it is now proven fact. this year, voters in six states where an abortion related question was on the ballot, voted to protect abortion rights each and every time, and all six of those votes happened in the four and a half months since the supreme court overturned roe v. wade. candidates who ran campaigns that featured strong support for abortion rights also won elections this year, including cherice davis, the only democratic representative from kansas. it is a stunning rebuke of the past 50 years, of republicans and their relentless assault on reproductive rights, and usually of the democratic party's hesitation in doing

more to bolster and codify roe. even until election day, people underestimated how energized and fired up supporters of abortion rights were, despite the fact that it was one of the top issues for voters according to nbc's election day exit polls. and a full 60% of people said they were dissatisfied or angry about the supreme court's decision to overturn roe. abortion rights are popular in this country, the data has supported that for many, many years. but the fact has been undermined by groups who have been more concerned with exploiting the issue for political purposes, rather than focusing on protecting bodily autonomy. in wake of the dobbs decision, the republican party has been lost at sea over how to proceed on this issue. and this week, in the special session of the south carolina state legislator, which was convened in order to enact a new abortion ban, ended without passing that ban. republicans control the state legislator, so they could've easily passed something. instead, the issue forced them to split into factions. ultimately, they could not come to an agreement amongst

themselves. in four and a half months, the fall of row has updated peoples assumptions about the politics of reproductive rights and the public support for them, but the results of this year's midterms are impossible to ignore. and there are lessons to be learned and utilized in the months and years ahead. when we come back, i will speak about the future of post roe and the fight for abortion rights with becca andrews, author of the new book, no choice, the destruction of roe v. wade and the fight to protect the fundamental american rights, and dr. rachel but art, executive director and founder of families united for freedom, an organization that was involved this year in the campaigns to support abortion rights in kansas, kentucky, michigan and montana. and montana year on business internet. help your business stay ahead with the reliable connection your business deserves. book your appointment today. and switch to the network america relies on. verizon. ever wonder why they call it the american dream... and not the american goal? announcer: derek jeter ...or plan?

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connection your business deserves. book your appointment today. and switch to the network america relies on. verizon. >> joining me now is becca

andrews, an investigative reporter for use, author of no choice, but a stretching of ravi weight and the fight to protect our fundamental american right. also with us is dr. rachel barred, a physician and the executive director and founder of families united for freedom, an organization that was involved in defeating the antiabortion ballot measures this year in kansas, kentucky and montana, while also supporting the abortion rights amendment initiative in michigan. you are the two perfect people to have this conversation with, thank you for being with us this morning. becca, let start with you. on the day after the election you tweeted, quote, abortion mattered in the midterms, it mattered so much more than we were told it would, by those who were neither willing to

understand and try to understand the first two stakes in the first place. so abortion was a clear factor, that clear to us now. why was it ever in doubt? now that we know what happened on tuesday, what is the takeaway for both democrats, who would like to support abortion rights and republicans who would like to remove them? >> you know, often i think it comes down to abortion stigma. people are not comfortable talking about abortion. they want to sweep it under the rug. and for a lot of the, let's face it, largely male pundits, no offense, they do not see abortion is a compelling issue, even though that is not with the voting data says. so now, we know newly registered women, two thirds of newly registered voters as a whole, abortion was what was bringing them out to the polls. that is a huge deal to constantly be sweeping that under the rug, shoving that aside in favor of the economy, as if the two were not inherently were not inherently

connected, is a mistake. i think going forward it would be great to see those two issues put together. women know our economic states are tied to abortion rights, our ability to control our reproductive lives. so you know, going forward, it will be great to see people actually understand that instead of separating the two. >> i think the choice of your title in your book, which includes the fight to protect the fundamental american right is important. because for guys like me, it is important to understand that this is a right, like someone else's right to vote, without a, democracy is incomplete. thank you for that. doctor aboard, the day after the election, you quit it tote, referendums have the potential to motivate turnout and scramble partisan dynamics, but also i would note that initiatives are designed to match the values of the voter

at the state level, and those values might differ a lot, state to state. what passed in fremont last night would not have promised in kansas and yet, we should be trying to protect reproductive rights everywhere, knowing results will be a patchwork of different rights frameworks, until a federal legislation has a chance to pass it. okay, that is a lot, i put out a tweet from you put a lot of stuff out there. but, in the absence of lower federal legislation, some have said that ballot measures are a delusion. i think you are saying this is nuanced and complicated, how you word them, who you target them to it what the existing infrastructure of the politics and legislations interstate matters? >> absolutely. our organizations believe was, in the short to medium term, the fight to win back our advanced reproductive rights is at the state level. and ballot initiatives are an incredible opportunity to do that because it puts the question directly to the

people. and as you said in your introduction, we know that people do not want to criminalize abortion, that dobbs was a huge overreach by the supreme court and the republican party. however, that does not mean that voters have the same values everywhere across the country. and so, what i think we learned this cycle, was an incredible clean sweep from vermont which now has the most permissive, advanced reproductive rights legislation on the books, then anywhere, through to montana, a deep red state where republicans otherwise did very well this election, is that if you target, the question and the messaging to where voters values already are, you can win on persuasion. for example, in kentucky, the no side of the ballot initiative, the pro-choice side won by five, even though rand

paul won his reelection to senate by 24. that tells us that a huge number of voters split their ticket between voting for the republican candidate and then voting on the pro-choice side on the ballot initiative. that is what we need to be able to do in red and purple states around the country. >> rebecca, president biden and his administration, other abortion rights activists and supporters were criticized for something you just brought up earlier about not using the word abortion when speaking about the topic. you say there are difficulties talking about this topic, what do you recommend be done, given what you have seen this week? >> i think saying the word abortion is a great step forward. so biden finally said it, thanks to -- who testified in the campaign, doing really incredible work to de-stigmatize abortion. i think we need to be talking about abortion, for what it is, right? it is like any other medical procedure. it is like a colonoscopy. there are euphemisms for

colonoscopy's. and i understand that it is not quite that simple, but it should be. so i think it is time for us to start presenting this as a legitimate, medical issue instead of something that has been so otherwise in the medical industry, used by politicians for so long. >> doctor bedard, you are someone who is actually energized by the dobbs decision. you started your organization the day after iraq fell. your organization helped the messaging, the ballot initiative campaign in kansas, which surprised a lot of people, the outcome in kentucky, michigan, montana. and the language that people used in talking about abortion rights, you also believe is important, especially for these particular ballot measures, some of which, montana and kentucky and kansas, were, i found, confusing and possibly manipulative? >> you found the ballot initiative wording confusing? >> yes. >> oh, absolutely! i think the ballot initiatives in all three of those states were worded intentionally in a

way that was meant to confuse and mislead voters. so one thing that the incredible campaigns in those states did, was under a huge amount of public education, just telling people the truth about what would happen if they voted yes on these amendments, and then what would happen if they voted yes on the amendments, would be, that there would be a loss of bodily autonomy, that you would be voting for an amendment that effectively, not whatever once personally believes, are that you can no longer make decisions about their own health care. that's a really critical point. i think that the research out of kansas at least showed was that there are many -- abortion is complicated, there are many people who personally identify as pro life. even those folks do not want to criminalize health care act, reproductive rights for their neighbors.

and so, the language that the campaign used really emphasize restoring constitutional rights to women, and freedom, liberty and bodily autonomy. that is a message which resonated in all of the message testing across partisan lines. it was the message that resonated best with sort of conservatives, who identified as pro-life, but also the message that resonated the best with base democrats. i think it really pointed the way towards how to win after the kansas referendum, the huge victory there in kentucky and montana. >> this conversation can go on for a long time, there's a lot of sophistication about how to put -- approaches for the coming years, there's no chance even with those five the carries for abortion rights this week, the kansas victory, and the victories of the candidates who ran on the base of abortion rights, abortion rights are still unprotected across the country, they are still not enshrined across the country. we are still in worse shape than we were before roe fell.

i would love to continue this discussion with some of you, but i am out of time for the show today. so thank you for being with us this morning, becca anders, investigative reporter for reckon news, and dr. rachael bedard, executive director of united families for freedom. that does it for me, thank you for watching velshi. catch me every weekend, saturday and sunday mornings, eight to 10 am eastern. do not forget, velshi is also available as a podcast. listen to the entire show, on the go, anytime. subscribe and listen to free, wherever you get your podcasts. right to start the sunday show with my friend, jonathan capehart. it begins right now. ght now. >> still in control, democrats maintain the senate majority after winning a squeak or in nevada. >> this election is a victory, a victory and a vindication for democrats, our agenda and for america and the american people. >> and with the house still in play,