we can't have you on the show anymore. >> what? what did i do? was it the insurrection? >> no. >> the impeachments? >> no. >> blackmailing ukraine? >> no. >> charlottesville? >> the murder? >> what? >> kidding. >> it's because you lost. >> wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, i have a big announcement, november 15th. don't push me off. i have a big announcement, and it's not what you think. i'm running for president again. >> it is official, trump has lost republicans the senate again. as democratic incumbents in arizona and nevada beat back their trump-backed challengers to win democrats the majority in the senate. don't even need to get to georgia now at this point. we'll have the latest on where things stand with the house as well. plus, vice president mike pence

speaks out in a new interview calling donald trump's tweet about him during the january 6th insurrection reckless. saying the president endangered him and his family. the question this morning, is the justice department listening? and president biden is meeting with chinese president xi jinping right now behind closed doors. their first in-person meeting since biden took office. the president saying the super powers have a responsibility to show the world we can manage our differences. the leaders are expected to hold a news conference in just a few hours. we'll be watching for that. a lot going on, and a lot happened over the weekend. >> it's hard to explain to people who don't follow politics closely or in this case, people that don't have a historical perspective, mika, just how extraordinary the news saturday night was that democrats had maintained the senate. that the house is close.

for the first time since 1934, that was fdr's first midterm. since 1934 that the party in power did not actually lose any state legislators. and joe biden may just actually do something that people haven't done before in this situation, pick up a governor or two. i mean, there are so many presidents -- >> incredible. >> -- that have fallen. and really, it's interesting too. you have people going, well, how could the media have gotten this so wrong. well, you know, a lot of times, we kept talking about the red wave. we also said it didn't feel like a wave to us. but you have to understand, you do look back at history. it is a pretty wise thing, instead of just trusting twitter

and what people on one side think, you look back at history and see how things have gone for, i don't know, 50, 60, 70 years. all of those expectations were denied, and you know, i will say, like we were saying on this show, it didn't feel like a red wave. it just -- it felt too many divergent trends going, and that's what it proved to me. >> i really wasn't sure what to expect, but i had a very dark feeling about it in terms of very far right extreme republicans taking control. >> right. >> and then in the end, when you look at what happened, you saw that joe biden actually had his finger on the pulse of politics talking about abortion, holding a speech on the importance of democracy, and i just think people, even those who were extremely disturbed by the january 6th insurrection, they may have had a lot of other things on their minds walking

into that voting booth. you think about what happened to paul pelosi in the week before the election, and i think that refreshed people's minds that, wow, our country is changing and my vote counts and a lot of people voted for democracy. >> well, they really did, and let's bring in really quickly right here, to continue this conversation, white house editor for "politico" sam stein, the cofounder of "axios" mike allen, former white house communications director under president obama, jennifer palmeri, and also founder of the conservative web site the bulwark, charlie sykes. following up on what mika said, i can't help -- there's really no pulling the chose right now, but i believe the attack on paul pelosi and the callousness of donald trump and kari lake,

where they not only dismissed political violence in america, but seemed to laugh at it, mock it, use it as a political punch line, really did connect january 6th and that political violence, which may have seemed to be in the rear view mirror, connect it to where we were last tuesday when people went out to vote. >> oh, i completely agree with that. i think it was all part of the same thread. look, i don't know if anyone said the attack on paul pelosi convinced them to go to the polls and pull the lever for democrats. i think people put it together with a number of preceding issues that you outlined and said, look, we want some sort of normalcy. we want politics not as a blood sport. we want candidates who will just speak to the common issues and not engage in attacks with each other all day long on various social media platforms. and i think that ultimately did help the democrats in this race.

you know, this is sort of a trite way to talk about it, but every president in a midterm tries to create a contrast election rather than a referendum. that's what you want to do to win your midterm. usually voters at the halfway mark say i'm tired of what's happening, and i want a change. what biden democrats managed to do, maybe not because they were gifted or talented, but republicans helped do it for them, they created a contrast election between the two parties. some of it was about democracy, some of it was about plain old crudeness and how we conduct ourselves and ultimately, enough voters in these republican districts, this is where it was won. it wasn't won in biden districts. this was won in trump districts. enough of these independent and republican voters said they were done with all of that and decided to vote for democrats. >> and charlie sykes, poor charlie, every two years they call him at midnight, and i go charlie, you know wisconsin better than anybody, what's going to happen, and charlie

always tells me what's going to happen. he told me in 2020, he said biden has enough, he's going to get enough out of milwaukee. biden is going to win this thing, and then you call the governor's race, and the senate race. you said barnes was going to come up just a little short, and he did. i'll tell you, charlie, for me, what really was a sign about two days out, i got my hands on a poll from a businessman with a lot of money who wants to know what's going to happen, took this poll with a mammoth sample size. and most of those numbers were right, but the one that jumped out at me was in wisconsin, perhaps a politician, and i mean this as the highest compliment. perhaps the politician with the least charisma in america was up two points in this poll, and that was governor evers, and when i saw that number pop out

and all the others looked about right to me, that number popped out, i said, my god, people in wisconsin want normalcy. that means people in america want normalcy. talk about that, and if you will, in the super charged political environment of wisconsin, explain how remarkable it is that a man is as normal and straightforward as evers wins in the most tu -- tumultuous time of donald trump. >> what was the midterm about, it was about abortion, extremism, donald trump and a push back against denialism, and tim michaels, the trump-backed republican candidate for governor was an election denier who would have turned over control of the election process to partisans. look, what's really extraordinary about this is

looking at the trends. milwaukee's vote was down. tony evers managed to turn out massive numbers of votes in dane county and the trump effect can be seen in the suburbs, in the so called wow counties where this used to be the republican, you know, vote creating machine, and since donald trump came on the scene, it has been in decline. there's no indication it's bouncing back for the republicans. so tony evers wins this race by more than 90,000 votes, which by wisconsin standards is a landslide. he got 27,000 more votes than ron johnson, which means if mandela barnes had gotten the same votes as tony evers he would have won that senate race. unfortunately he got about 50,000 votes fewer than tony evers showing that in wisconsin, people will split their ticket. but you're absolutely right. this really turned on the abortion issue, on the dobbs

issue, and election denialism, and i have to tell you that republicans here are openly saying that there's no way that donald trump is going to win wisconsin on the current trajectory, and that it's time to move on from trump. they're saying that. whether they will do that is a different question. >> here's how we got to democrats retaining control of the senate. it happened late saturday night when the nevada race was called for catherine cortez masto, long considered one of the most vulnerable democratic incumbents. she narrowly defeated her republican challenger, trump-backed adam laxalt to give democrats 50 seats with vice president kamala harris being the tie-breaking vote. democratic incumbent mark kelly of arizona gave democrats seat number 49 when his race was called the night before. defeating another trump-backed candidate, blake masters. the senate being decided takes some of the focus away from the georgia senate runoff, which

decided the majority back in 2020. herschel walker still waiting a long time now to see whether or not he wins that race. there are still votes left to count in arizona this week, in the state's largest county, maricopa, election officials estimate there are still up to 95,000 ballots to count in the race for governor. over 170,000 votes remain statewide. of those ballots, republican kari lake needs nearly 60% of the vote to overtake democrat katie hobbs. last night's batch of votes favored lake, but not enough for her to claim the lead. lake trails hobbs by just over 26,000 votes this morning. of the votes left to be counted out of maricopa county, over 70,000 are early voting ballots. which have so far favored hobbs. so we're still waiting on the

race for arizona governor. but kari lake not having an easy time as she claims she would. >> it's definitely going to be tight. it's going to go all the way to the end. she got about 52% of the votes from last night's batch. he needs to get between 58 and 60% of the vote in what comes out tonight. but, you know, she would be the last person standing in a major race that was an election denier because voters in the six battleground states where donald trump tried to reserve the 2020 election results rejected election denying candidates. every one of them in this year's midterms. it's the latest sign that americans are just saying no to trumpism. "the washington post" writes, candidates for secretary of state in michigan, in arizona, in nevada, who had echoed trump's false accusations lost their contests. a fourth candidate never made it

out of his may primary in georgia. in pennsylvania, one of the nation's most prominent election deniers lost his bid for governor, a job that would have given him the power to appoint the secretary of state. and wisconsin, the election deniers loss in the governor's race, effectively blocked a move to put election administration under partisan control. also notable, that election denying republican candidate for pennsylvania governor, he conceded last night. doug mastriano lost by 14 points. he shifted his tone about the election in his concession statement, and said as difficult as it is to accept these results, there's no right course but to concede, which i do. >> this is important. >> and i looked at the challenges ahead, josh shapiro will be our next governor and i ask everyone to give him the opportunity to lead and pray that he leads well.

>> this is another thing we didn't completely predict. the democrats winning, election deniers losing, electrician deniers conceding. >> and look at this "new york post" cover, deniers denied. voters punish trump-backed candidates. deniers denied. it is extraordinary. let's keep that up. it is extraordinary, just extraordinary. how didn't matter what state you were in, didn't matter what swing state you were in. if you're an election denier, the voters came out and said no to you, and, you know, jen palmieri, i'd say it's extord -- exrdary, but actually it's not. the american people said enough.

there are a couple of things. there were huge -- i'm talking about people on twitter, why did people predict there might be a red wave. why did they say abortion might be an issue. what's with all the polls before. they were saying abortion was a 5% issue. we didn't believe it. it was one poll after another poll after another poll. then you looked at those exit polls and two things rang true. one, abortion was really up there high. and secondly, the one that really caught my eye early tuesday night, 80% of americans said they had confidence in american democracy and the political system and their votes would be counted fairly. 80%. that's remarkable. it made a difference. people voted against dobbs. they voted against donald.

they voted for democracy. >> against deniers. >> for democracy, against deniers. >> i was many mar -- maricopa county over the weekend. if there's any stat that tells you republicans have got to change their tune and why you see republican candidates conceding is the stuff you said. even with two years of trump and all of these republicans saying that the election was stolen and people, you know, a majority of republicans in the congress voting to overturn the presidential election, leaders in the party making this one of their core issues, people still had faith in elections. maricopa county, the board of supervisors there is doing heroic work every day with their press conferences, beating back the conspiracy theories, taking them on directly, saying why they're not true. you know, just been really

transparent all along the way, and, you know, even kari lake who stands out there as the most ostentatious, sort of effective in terms of communication skills at communicating around election denying, even she, we'll see what happens if she does indeed lose, but even she's starting to back up on her rhetoric. there's incompetence, i hope there's not malice. she was more aggressive on thursday and friday talking about how trump candidates are not doing well when the vote is being counted. maybe it's unfair because they prefer desantis republicans. you know what, like, it's not working. this is the message. it is not working. >> not only is it not working. it's a toxic message. she had an opportunity to follow a conspiracy theory on another network and refused it take it. she put out a message telling her followers to be patient, and to let the professionals that are doing their job finish doing their job in safety and

security. i also take that as a good sign. i will say it too, we love conversions. we love conversions and if you're telling your followers to be respectful to election officials, i have a lot of friends who are election officials across america, you know what, take it. you take it. mike allen, i love how you've summed this up, and that is, especially we're talking the swing states obviously. in the swing states, extreme defeat. moderation nation. it really does play out that way in the six or seven swings states, doesn't it? >> joe, that's exactly right, and to bolster your earlier point about people wanting normalcy, a spoiler for you, most people are normal. this is something that jennifer and i have written a lot about at "axios." most americans are not marinating in twitter. most americans are not participating in these extreme

events. you could call this the make it stop election because it's clear that people who were not tuned in, who tuned in late, they said make it stop. two stats about this that sam stein and i were talking about that say it all, one, the cook political report had 36 toss-up house races in the end. donald trump endorsed five. toss up house candidates, he went zero and five. not a single one of the trump-endorsed toss-up candidates won. and second, in nbc and others, the national election pool poll, people were voting, which party is too extreme. 50% dems too extreme, 50% r's too extreme, and exactly split america. >> you remind me, everything i learned i learned from paul mccartney.

mccartney was asked in the '80s why have you been so optimistic, and i have said this on the show before, and mccartney said because, you know, there are a lot of good people out there. i see good people out there all the time, and i think we've got them outnumbered, and i will tell you, when you said most people are normal, it reminds me of that mccartney quote, i think we've got them out numbered. i want to ask this, now, sam stein, in florida, we do it pretty simple. we do it the simple way in florida. >> here we go. >> we do, we do. if you get an early vote, you count an early vote. so by the time election night comes at 7:10 p.m., you know about how a third of the vote came down in the state, and by 8:00, 9:00, 10:00 at night, we have the elections called. i wonder, and by the way, i'm not knocking arizona. i'm not knocking nevada because

they're following the laws that the state legislature passed and the governor signed. i'm just wondering why in the world now that their democratic legislatures running michigan, and i think they may have won the house in pennsylvania, why don't more of these states do what florida does, count early and announce who won the state by 10:00, so this isn't dragging out into the next week. >> the history of florida obviously is that what happened is they passed a series of laws to shore up their election system after the 2000 recount, right. they said we don't want to go through that again. we want to make it more transparent, more professional. they did it, and now florida has one of the best counting systems in the country. pennsylvania republicans blocked the ability to count ballots that were received prior to election day, until election day, which led to all the

confusion in the 2020 after math, so you're absolutely right, if you're in a state legislature in one of these states that takes forever to count, a very simple fix would be to change the law. change the state law, and fund election workers. allow these people to do their job early but also get more people to help with the counting. it would clear up a lot of confusion. it would completely take the legs out from the conspiracy theorists. it's a simple act to do. unfortunately, has not been done in a couple of states, but, you know, hope springs eternal, i guess. >> and we wait. mike allen, thank you very much. coming up on "morning joe," majority leader chuck schumer is our guest after this weekend's nevada results helped democrats maintain control of the senate. plus, house majority whip james clyburn joins the conversation as the balance of power in the house still remains undecided this morning. also ahead, it's been almost two years since the january 6th attack on the capitol.

and former vice president mike pence finally admits he was angry with then president trump. we'll show you his new remarks, and we'll take a look at the growing calls within the republican party to postpone this week's gop leadership elections. >> just wallow in it. why don't you fight in public for about a month. that ought to help out. >> you're watching "morning joe." >> or maybe not. get them over with. we'll be right back. now we see 2022, his candidates are putting republicans in a position. >> what was supposed to be a run away red wave year, was tightening, tightening. >> the house s we got a red wave coming, well, you know, if we get a good sprinkler system. >> we'll run through the new signs we might not see a red wave in november. >> the prospects of this red wave in november, which should be massive, but looking like it's going to be a bit more tempered. >> new reporting on the specific

signs republicans hope for a red wave are receding. >> if these numbers hold over the next couple of months, then it's less likely that you're going to have that massive red wave. >> still the case that they're likely to end up in control of the house of representatives but the notion of a red wave, gone. t the notion of a red wave, gone in this family, it's the scientists versus the artists. [ melancholy music playing ] what kinda movie are you gonna make? $100 for a hobby? -it's not a hobby, dad. [ chatter ] don't dismiss what he does. it's playful or imaginative.

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i respect our donors. there are two things i don't do, i don't waste money, and i don't lose elections. >> but here's what happened to us, election day, our voters didn't show up. we didn't get enough voters. a complete disappointment. we've got to reflect now. what didn't happen? i think we didn't have enough of a positive message. we said everything about how bad the biden agenda is, the democrats are radical. we have to have a plan of what we stand for. >> you know, i feel like i need to give a public service announcement here to lobbyists on k street. i know that when i was in washington, i didn't really hang out with you that much. i didn't go golfing with you. i don't go to like football games. i just didn't do that. i'm kind of, you know, cranky, i don't get out very much. that said, i do feel the need as a public service to you, lobbyists in washington, d.c. and across america, ceos across

america, if you want to watch your money burn, if you want to pick a political party that will literally burn millions and millions and hundreds of millions of dollars of your money, that guy, he can do it. the republican party can do it. they wasted so much of your money. but here's the good news. instead of talking about inflation and talking about, oh, i don't know, the recession, talking about things that actually impact their lives every day. they talked about your billions of dollars. if that really bothers you, good on you, you send out mailers from florida to washington state, from san diego up to the farthest reaches of maine.

they burned your money. yet again, they wasted your money in '18. they wasted your money in '20. they wasted your money in '22, and they keep getting more extreme. you give them money, and they find really extreme issues, and then they just -- they light a match and put your billion dollars here and that of course -- >> you have been very helpful this morning. >> do you think i've helped out? >> i'm trying to make up for not spending a lot of time with them. >> that was senator rick scott's message, in january of 2021, versus his excuses on friday for losing. >> he said he never loses elections. >> he just did. >> he's going to have to adjust. >> kind of lost big elections. i want to go back now if we can. it really, again, it's crazy how much money they lost.

charlie sykes, i want to go back to you. we played a clip going into the break where we're all saying it didn't feel like a red wave because it didn't feel like a red wave, and two polls that i saw the last week when everybody was talking about the red wave stuck out. one was barnes, the great marquette poll had barnes one, two points behind. they nailed it. the second thing is i listened to john ralston, these right wing freaks, and trump propagandists were ridiculing john, saying he's doing this because he hates laxalt, on and on and on, but if you look at the polls, you can see things were breaking in a lot of different directions. i guess here's my question. like, how could it be that certain web sites, and certain news agencies got suckered by all of those phony polls, got

suckered by all of those republican polls. all got suckered. like, i'll be honest with you, i expect some sites to follow it because they played the right wingers, and right wingers believe mitt romney was going to beat obama by eleven points. if they want to bathe in stupidity and ignorance, they can. i was surprised, though, when i look at 538, which i now go to pause they're the best, they'd say there's a republican. wait, this is propaganda. why are you putting this -- and i really think it threw off a lot of people in the media. they followed those right wing garbage polls. >> no, you're right. look, i mean, there's a lot of confirmation bias, a lot of wish casting there, but there are a lot of media bubbles as well, and i think the republicans got themselves caught in all of this. i was thinking about, you know, the conventional wisdom had

shifted radically toward the red wave and pundit hive mind out there. i think it was something you said earlier about the reaction to the paul pelosi attack, because in the last couple of weeks, one thing that you started to see was that the republicans had really internalized the idea that nothing matters, they could mock the attack on an 82-year-old man. they could look the other way when donald trump is throwing ketchup against the wall and attacking people, you know, calling mitch mcconnell's wife, cocoa chao, they believed there were no consequences for extremism, election denial, the bad taste, all of those things, and really what this election was about was telling them, no, in fact, there are consequences. we are paying attention, and you're scary. you people are scary, and people like rick scott are out there, you know, complaining about it. well, look, rick scott was at the table. he was the guy that floated the

idea of, you know, changing social security and medicare. all of those things, rather talking about the issues that most people actually wanted to hear about. i do think that the republican party talked itself into believing that they were living in this sort of trumpian it doesn't matter what we do or say world, and now we take up and realize, actually people want normalcy, and people were paying attention to your lunacy and your extremism in the last couple of weeks. >> yeah, and, you know, it's important to remember rick scott voted against certifying the election. and the guy still was put in charge of the republican senate committee. it really was just staggering. but there is, mika, you know, i have been saying for a couple of weeks, gravity is returning. you look at what's happened, you look what's happened to info wars.

you look what's happened to a lot of these other people that were election deniers. you look in the courts, the federal judges, one after another after another, challenge based on lunacy, not the law. thrown out repeatedly, and now you look just as charlie said, you look and there actually are consequences. because, you know, it's so funny that rick said that, we'd just look at each other, does nothing matter anymore. >> that's what you can see coming. >> an 82-year-old man. that's when i asked, who are these people who raised you. and it ends up that a lot of good parents raised a lot of good people not because democrats won and republicans lost. >> right. >> but because election deniers, people who are trying to undermine american democracy, people who were mocking the attack of an 82-year-old man,

those people lost, and we've tried to be very careful. very careful to talk about you have senate republicans, and for the most part, they follow mcconnell's lead when it comes to election denying, and they don't do it. then you've got the house republicans and a whole lot of crazy candidates. >> trump republicans in there. >> trump republicans pay. >> and the attack on pelosi sort of inflamed that bad, ugly, nasty, un-american behavior, which, as charlie said, we have been watching time and time again, a situation that appears to have no consequences. there have been some. >> gravity returns. >> gravity returned and the voters provided consequences. with us, we have u.s. special correspondent for bbc news, katty kay, and presidential historian, jon meacham joins us this morning. >> thank you so much for being with us. jon, first of all, i tried to put this in perspective with my kids, my adult kids.

like jimmy carter talking about nuclear proliferation with 10-year-old amy. i love jimmy carter. i'm trying to explain it to my children and people close to me, how remarkable this election is. i really can't. there doesn't seem to be any historical parallel. >> no, there's not. there's not a lot of parallel to the forces you're talking about that were in contention. i think what this week shows us is that fund mentally, americans are devoted to the declaration of independence. i don't think many went into the ballot thinking about thomas jefferson, though i wish they would. i think they understand that america is at its best when we expand rights, when we build and not when we tear down.

and that's quiet explicit in dobbs. it's quite explicit in having your right to vote count. you know, i hate to put it this way, but for a lot of white americans, 2020 was the first time they actually saw a world where their votes weren't going to count. suddenly, what we did in our native region, joe, for so long. was going national. and i think people said, no, they understood instinctively the franchise. they understand that having -- it's very hard in american politics in life to have a right or a program and then take it away. and roe v. wade, whatever you believe about the morality and the complicated arguments around it, it was settled law in the country from 1973 until 2022.

and so it was part of the infrastructure of american rights. the right to vote for white folks has been part of the infrastructure. and suddenly, in 2020, 2021, 2022, not only did you have this coarse and terrible tone you're talking about, but you had people trying to take things away. and i think the country said on tuesday and in this season that, you know what, we are about living into the declaration. we're not about pulling away from that promise. >> and katty kay, why don't we talk about also joe biden and just it's so funny. i still look at some of these memes on twitter over the weekend. i'm like, oh, you guys didn't get the message.

that didn't work for you. you can say he's not with it. you can say he's too old. >> fell off a bike. >> oh, my god, he fell off a bike a couple of months ago. you can say all of those things and none of them broke through in the states that matter most. none of them broke through, like here's a guy who has made history with the democratic party. and we talked about -- we talked about the fact that people that slightly disapproved of biden's performance as president, they still went with his party. independence went with joe biden and his party, and i heard paul begala say it over the weekend. it's pretty remarkable that every midterm election is to check the party in power to put brakes on the party in power. this is the first midterm election where voters put brakes

on the party out of power. no, no, no, we're going to keep them out of power because they're insurrectionists, weirdos and freaks. >> you might want to check the party in power except for when the party out of power is trying to take away your right to an abortion, has donald trump on the ticket and is actively inserting himself in the campaign in the last week, and you have people in the party in power in the last week responding to a hammer attack on an 83-year-old man in a way that just clearly turned most voters off. and i think, you know, you put all of those things together, but you also, i mean, that weekend i spent just before the election with abigail spanberger, going to those rallies was a lesson in why one side won and one didn't. about gal spanberger spoke about local issues. she was speaking about -- >> okay.

lost katty. >> on point about joe biden, it's so interesting, you ask, i ask democrats who constantly are concerned about joe biden, maybe think he shouldn't run. maybe he shouldn't come and campaign with me. like exactly what are you looking for? exactly what is it that you want that he's not giving you. because legislative wins, check. foreign policy wins, what he's doing in ukraine, we don't talk about it enough, it's masterful, probably in the process along with strengthening nato of saving the world from a fascism and a dictator and the aggression that is taking over ukraine, and what he's doing for ukraine is nothing short of masterful. and then you look at his political gut, everybody else said look at this, look at this, look at this, oh, my god, we're going to lose. he focused on abortion. he understands the importance of women's rights. he always has and he stays with it.

he stays true to it. and he focused on democracy. he held a speech on democracy, and everyone was like, oh, did you see the speech. he's not talking about this. he's not talking about that. he knew what he was doing. what more do people want. who else is out there, please tell me. >> it's interesting, jon, there were so many times over the first year where progressives would say, see, you can't count on republicans. you can't do business with republicans, they are evil. you've got to run over them. and every time biden said, let's try to figure out. we'll take it one at a time. i'm not saying all progressives. biden heard this as you know very well, you're a friend of his and work with him all the time. he heard this all the time, he's naive. you can't work with the other side, it's too harsh.

he did. he got a lot of legislation passed and he talked about democracy, he talked about abortion. i heard one podcast after another talking about how stupid he was for doing that. there were some great candidates, josh -- pennsylvania, i'm sorry. >> josh shapiro. >> josh shapiro in pennsylvania. how quickly we forget the future of the democratic party. josh shapiro talks about all things. he talks about democracy, about abortion, he talks about crime. he talks about inflation, but it seems biden made all the right calls if you look at the exit polls, but never got any of the credit. it seems to me the more we get into the biden presidency, the more we realize he has that great, great skill that ronald reagan had. he's always underestimated and

enemies have always underestimated him, from donald trump to vladimir putin, they always under estimate him, and it ends up costing him in the end. >> it's the george w. bush. he is mis-under estimated. and that has continued throughout the decades, right? joe biden has been left for political dead since 1987 again and again and again. i guess that makes sense except, wait, he's the president of the united states, and he just pulled off something that you can argue about how much credit he gets, whatever, but let me tell you what we would be saying if it had gone the other way right now. let's say with all the, you know, everybody with a podcast would be saying right now if it had not gone this way. and i think, you know, he's

about to turn 80 years old. he comes out of a border state. he comes out of a political world where i continue to believe that his political world, which was ours until 2017 was a disfigurative debate, disfigurative conversation. it was a consensus on the realm of the possible. there are problems with that. we always have to be able to image more, and i understand that. by and large for those decades in which we defeated a great depression, defeated fascism, won the cold war, helped bring down the berlin wall, created remarkable prosperity. managed to expand civil and voting rights, women's rights, rights for groups that felt marginalized before. you know, and i'm not trying to do a triumphant narrative here,

but that's just what happened. did it take too long? yes. is it not over? of course it's not over. but president biden comes out of that world where the public sector could make a positive difference. and it's doing that again now. and believe me, he's not going to change from that belief. that is him. and the country will decide in a couple of years whether they want more of this or not. but as i've said a lot. you know, joe biden is an upside down iceberg, you guys know that. 95% of what he says in private, he says in public, and i'm not sure i could find the 5%. what you see is what you get. maybe there's a little profanity, but not much. look, he's the president of the united states. we'll see what happens to the approval rating. but look, american democracy is

stronger today than it was seven days ago. and joe biden gets a lot of credit for that. >> yes, he does. >> charlie sykes, we'll give you the final word. >> well, it is interesting. joe biden is old and he's showing it, and that's not going to get any better, but democrats don't have a plan b. what they do have after tuesday is a pretty impressive bench, wes moore, josh shapiro, gretchen whitmer, while donald trump is in the process of burning down the republican bench, you're seeing the rise of a very very impressive democratic bench that will be the next chapter after joe biden. >> charlie sykes and jon meacham, thank you both. we've got a lot of news coming up. major updates from the war in ukraine. a shooting on the campus of university of virginia, three dead and as of the start of the show this morning, the gunman was still on the loose. we'll have an update on that.

also coming up, the trump effect boiled down in a single house race. we'll speak with the democrat who just won her race in a district in washington state who had a 98% chance of losing before donald trump got involved. we'll explain that. plus, we'll go live to the sidelines of the g20 summit in bali, indonesia, for the latest on the highly anticipated meeting between president biden and the leader of china. "morning joe" will be right back. ader of china. "morning joe" will be right back what's the #1 retinol brand used most by dermatologists? it's neutrogena® rapid wrinkle repair® smooths the look of fine lines in 1-week, deep wrinkles in 4. so you can kiss wrinkles goodbye! neutrogena®

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talk to our switch squad at your local xfinity store today. . president joe biden is meeting right now with chinese president xi jinping in indonesia. it's the first face-to-face meeting for the two leaders since biden took office. here's some of what the president had to say early this morning before they went behind

closed doors. >> the world i expects, i believe, china and the united states to play key roles in addressing global challenges from climate changes to food insecurity and for us to be able to work together. the united states stands ready to do just that, work with you, if that's what you desire. so president xi, i look forward to our continuing and ongoing open and honest dialogue we've always had, and i thank you for the opportunity. >> joining us now from bali is the host of "way too early," white house bureau chief at "politico," jonathan lemire, and, jonathan, from the chinese leader, a lot of talk about the relationship being at a cross roads, what are they trying to get to here? >> yeah, the relationship between the u.s. and china at its lowest point in decades, mika, and there's a rising tension between beijing and washington, providing the back

drop in bali. there's a long agenda here, trade, north korea, the u.s. trying to further isolate vladimir putin in russia, and of course, taiwan, and that's all going to be dressed behind closed doors, we briefly heard from president biden and xi jinping earlier. they struck a hopeful note, suggesting that it was important to meet face to face. this is the first meeting since biden took office. they need to find some areas of common ground. some areas where they can get along. areas where they can establish rules of the road because there is a fear if that can't happen, if it can't happen soon, the two world global superpowers may be engaged in a full-on cold war. we will be hearing from president biden in a little while when this summit wraps up. we'll have a news conference. i have to dash over shortly. both sides signing somewhat of a hopeful note. officials don't expect much in the way of crete accomplishments

here. they think talking at all is an important step, and hope it will lead to further meetings down the road. >> what else can you tell us about what you have seen since you've been over there, regarding, well, how the rest of the world is looking at biden, looking at the united states, now, obviously president biden goes over there much more empowered after these historic midterms. >> yeah we heard from national security adviser jake sullivan a few hours ago. he said a number of the world leaders he met with. he spent the weekend in cambodia at a summit there. a number of world leaders said they saw the midterm results and biden has come out saying i feel stronger. he feels emboldened with the wind at his back. you know, usually these summits in asia tend to be every november. there's a number of cases where presidents come off of poor midterms and fly overseas to seek refuge in international affairs, foreign policy. they have a lot more autonomy than they do in domestic politics. for biden, this is a bit of a

victory lap that he knows he's got the wind at his back at the moment. it also is the case for xi jinping who just of course received another five-year term ahead of the government there. and one more note, who's not here at the g20, vladimir putin. a couple of weeks ago, russia signalled that he would attend. u.s. officials until a few days ago thought he would as well. putin has bowed out in the wake of another humiliating defeat on the battlefield. there will be a lot of talk here about rallying the world behind ukraine. putin himself, a no show. >> jonathan lemire, thank you very much. we know you have to run to the news conference. let's bring in the president of the council on foreign relations, richard haass joining us now, and katty kay, why don't you jump in with the first question. >> hey, richard, i'm looking at this relationship, it's rarely been worse, almost no communication between washington and beijing at the moment, and the biden administration's theory of the case is that you could come compartmentalize the

relationship. if this moment in bali would produce a reset, how would that approach to dealing with beijing change? >> i think it's off to a good start. think for a second, the contrast between when senior officials of the two countries met a year ago in anchorage, it was a public display of recriminations and accusations, and what we just saw from president biden, we didn't hear the part from xi jinping. much more respectful, traditional diplomatic, if i may say. both sides want to put a floor under the relationship, and that's what you can, i think, hope for here. no deliverables, no agreements that are specific or hard, but i think you'll see the institutionalization of more dialogue, and each side will signal to the other what matters the most. we're going to want to see a little bit of chinese restrain on taiwan. we want to see the chinese pressure north korea which has been shooting off missiles at

all of its neighbors. we want the chinese to continue to pull back in its support of russia. chinese want to see us exercise some restraint or discipline again. when it comes to taiwan. i think each side is going to walk away with a slightly better understanding of what matters most to the other, not hard agreements, but this is actually potentially something of a foundation. this, as i think jonathan said, this relationship has been sinking, literally for decades, and just getting something of a floor under it, i think, would be in the interest of both sides, given everything each government has to contend with. >> richard, the u.s. is still coming back on the world stage after four years of president trump. how important is it for the leaders to not just see president biden do well in the midterms but to see that democracy is being upheld for the election deniers to be defeated. is it that level of detail that people are, you know, the other world leaders are paying

attention to. >> to our foes, countries like china, i think the idea that the united states was on the ropes, we are going to do ourself in, it's not the case. it's not something that president biden shows up with a little bit of wind in his sails at his back. it shows the russians even more and the chinese, any efforts, the iranians to sow mayhem may not be working. it's reassuring to our friends. they look at us and say over the last couple of years, this is not the united states we thought we knew. how can we depend on you. a big article in the "new york times" today about japan, increasing the defense spending. one of the reasons, no longer confident in american reliability. i was just in south korea about a week ago. what's the big conversation, can they depend on nuclear forces to be there if north korea is threatening them. all of this is a consequence of january 6th, the radical departures of the trump years ago the normalcy, and fact that normalcy in american politics seems to be on the ascendant

actually is a really powerful message to our friends. there's something of a sigh of relief you're hearing around the world from america's partners. >> it is just a moment past the top of the hour, and we have a lot coming up. we have senate majority leader elect chuck schumer, coming up. we'll be talking to him about the historic elections, midterm elections. and also there is breaking news a shooting on the campus of the university of virginia, three people reportedly are dead, and as of now, it appears the suspect is on the loose. we'll be following that story. the latest on ukraine and much more politics, of course as as i said, the dems won the senate over the weekend late saturday night, and the house results are still hanging in the balance, so history was made politically over the weekend. >> it really was. and, you know, sam stein, we actually also saw a reversal of

a decade long trend. when barack obama was in the white house, we saw republicans just make massive gains over the course of eight, ten years, and you finally saw that tide sort of ebb back, and now you have democrats who did extremely well, holding state legislatures, historic, they did something a party hadn't done since 1934. you look at a swing state like michigan, they completely dominated everything on the ballot in michigan there. i know we're paying a lot of attention to the senate, and we should. but republicans have been able to do so much from gerrymandering, to laws regarding abortion, to even jury instructions that people get in cases because they dominate the state legislatures. it looks like that tide is now starting to break back in the democrats' way, at least for now.

>> totally. the great untold story about the obama years is what you talked about, which is the absolute e e republicans took control of state houses after a long, decades long absence from that control, and they were able to enact their agenda on the local level, and gerrymander themselves into power. in some cases that's the case. in wisconsin, for instance, you see a 50/50 senate where the republican party basically holds almost a near super majority power in the state, and there's not much chance the democrats can breakthrough that. you start by winning local races, and in michigan, that's happened. in pennsylvania, they're on the verge of it happening. you're seeing a whole host of young democrats elected who will then rise up the ranks and become stars. and so, you know, this is a real seminole moment for the party. it does alleviate some of the concern we are talking about

biden being 80 years old. you'll have another generation of democrats coming up behind him. >> and richard haass, you've talked about how world leaders have seen this election. you have been in washington an awful long time. there has been, from 2016 forward, there has been a disturbing trend, certainly during the trump presidency, at the same time, isn't it fascinating that the republican party has seemed blind, perhaps not anymore, but blind to the fact that donald trump won one election, and then republicans lost local races and state races in 2017. they got hammered in 2018 in the midterms. they lost southern governorships and other races in 2019. and in places like louisiana and kentucky, now, they lost the house, the senate, the white house in 2020. they lost again in 2022. fairly historic. i'm wondering, do the

republicans -- do the republicans wake up at this point and what's it mean for this country if they do, if we are seeing the end of the trump era? >> well, i think it's too soon, joe, to, you know, we're not quite there as you know better than anybody, and there's a difference, i think, between trump and trumpism. but what you ask, i think, is actually the most interesting question politically right now is what lessons do republicans draw, do we once again begin the march towards recovery of a republican party that is recognizable, that believes in a strong national defense and a large role in the world. that believes in the market to reduce the role of government in the economy, that does have some respect for the limits of what government does, rather than populism. we were members of the party that was recognizable. it departed. i think the real question is whether there's a collective

movement to come back or whether so many republicans are still frightened of doing that. because they're still angry and narrow and populist. but i think that question is at least on the table, and it hasn't been on the table for a couple of years. >> richard haass, thank you very much. we want to just let our viewers know that we're following a developing story out of charlottesville, virginia, where there is a man hunt underway right now after a shooting on the university of virginia campus. the school's police department is telling everyone on campus to shelter in place as they search

republicans would vote no. the judiciary committee was 10-10, you have to take the long procedural steps and do a motion to discharge with 51, saturday night, cortez masto's race gets called.

>> i'm so happy, my ear piece fell out. >> you were due a moment of celebration, but that was the first thought that i had was judges. like, you know, confirmations for biden and judges. when you realize at that moment, you were always bullish about this. when you realize we are going to hold on to the senate, what is the first thing in your mind about what you're going to be able to do, your responsibility. >> we have a whole lot of responsibilities, and as i said, when we can work with republicans to get some good things done, we will. when we can't, we'll try to do whatever we can on our own. that was our credo, but what the american people want, average americans, every day americans, is do something to help me. they don't expectp us to work miracle in six months, but they expect some real results. we produced them. and that maybe is why i had the confidence, i reverend, that yo mentioned. because we knew it, and i saw it in the campaigns. i followed each of these

campaigns, not hour by hour, but minute byou minute, i did have little time for baseball, joe, but most of it was the campaigns, and i saw what was happening. i mean, people, i didn't see many people talk about the prescription drug issue. it was a huge issue. it was one of the issues every one of our candidates pushed on. climate, the youngpu people wit climate and debt ceiling were saying, hey, they're paying attention tohe us at least. not that we're getting everything we want. but a good amount of what we want. so there's a lot to do and we're going to try to get it done. i'm going to sit down with my caucus. one of the things i said we're going to try to get done in the lame duck session, the house passed with 35 republican votes marriage equality.ia there are a lot of things. but debt ceiling is something that's importantli but the numb one thing we have to do when we cometo back in the lame governmt is fund the government. government funding runs out at

the end of december. >> senator, i loved your comments on saturday night because you talked about harry reid. now. >> yes. >> i at times had some harsh things to say about harry reid. but i remember going into the 2010 election, a lot of people were thinking thatot harry reid was going to lose. i kept saying, no, he's not. i said there's just something about harry reid and nevada. that guy has that state wired like nobody i've ever seen. he actually came on the show, and said thank you so much for saying that. you were right, most other people are wrong. it's something obviously you know better than anybody. you talked about harry reid and his machine. he may be gone, but he's certainly, his presence was felt on saturday night. >> i say his light shines as bright as the lights on the vegas strip still to this day.

put together in a very difficult state. which used to have republican senators, harry reid put together a coalition on union labor. on people of color, average folks, peopleer who worked in t hotel and tourism industries. he put together that coalition. and he made sure that the candidates he chose had those feelings in their hearts, too, and that's what catherine cortez masto it. people when they saw her and compared her to her opponent. this happened in race after race. this person cares about me. this person knows what i'm going through. the daughter of immigrants, her family struggled. her closing ads talked about it. they understood she cares about me, and she's going to do things for me. and like rafael warnock, our senators, the four senator incumbents each of whom won did lots of good things for their constituents already, and so they delivered. and sometimes we get taken by

all of these incendiary comments minute by minute. but the public's pretty smart and i want to say one more thing about this, joe, with the maga republicans, with the denying the election,it which is the beginning of the end of a democracy. when one party loses and then denies an election, that's how democracies crumble with the big lie, with also the countenance of violence on january 6th against poll workers and even the republican leaders in too many cases, refused to rebut it, we're on the edge of the beginnings of the autocracy creeping into the grand noble experiment that we have prospered under for 200 years. and it was the public whose quiet deep roots for democracy said,ts no. and a good number of republicans who don'tum agree with us on mo issues said i can't vote for this party that's been captured by the magas.

and one of the faults was with the republican leadership who didn'tth rebut it strongly enou. >> so speaking of the maga republicans, senator, i'm just wondering how much you think the january 6th insurrection had anything to do with the results and possibly related? it might have been in the back of a lot of people's minds. maybe far away in their minds, but did the attack on paul pelosi, do you think, have anything to do with refreshing the concerns in americans' minds about the future of our democracy? >> and political violence. >> well, people saw it, and they saw it through all along. i saw on your show a few minutes earlier, the fellow who does the polling. >> dave wasserman. >> talking about d candidates wh republicanki backing who said women shouldn't vote, and so th' whole idea of turning the clock back to an extreme level, and

then countenancing at least threats of violence, really sunk in with the american people. and i think the paul pelosi thing was just another example, and we all pray and hope for his recovery. i've talked to nancy regularly, and she's hopeful, praise god. but i think all of it sort of, all of it sort of was mounting and so many people, as i mentioned, said i can't live with this party. i'm a bush republican. i'mme a reagan republican. this ain't my republican party. and independents who leaned republican in the polling show didn that too. the answer is for the republican leadership, those non-maga ones to breakno with the maga party d work with us. america would be such a sigh of relief if they saw that happening. they liked it this summer. but we need to do more. and i'm willing to reach out.

>> senate majority leader chuck schumer thank you very much for being onsc this morning. wein appreciate it. take care. >> wait until next year, joe. >> wait until next year. >> yankees. >> the dodgers used to say that. >> coming up, one of the biggest upsets from last week's midterms. happened out west. we'll be joined by the democrat who just won washington's third district. despiteashi pollsters giving he only a 2% chance of taking the seat. we'll explain the key mistake republicans made that helped her pull off a victory. also ahead, we'll get an update from ukraine where the russians havee retreated from major city they've held for months, and as we go to break, what we just discussed, house speakerus nancy pelosi asked abt the attack on her husband and its impact at the ballot box. it wasn't just the attack. it was the republican reaction to it, which was disgraceful, and that, i think, really -- the

attack is horrible. imagine how i feel i was the one who was the target and my husband paying the price and the traumatic effect on our family, but that trauma is intensified by the ridiculous disrespectful attitude that the republicans, and there's nobody disassociating themselves from the horrible response that they gave to it. >> do you think that turned voters off? >> they tell me so. off >> they tell me so put it in check with rinvoq, a once-daily pill. when uc got unpredictable,... i got rapid symptom relief with rinvoq. check. when uc held me back... i got lasting, steroid-free remission with rinvoq. check. and when uc got the upper hand... rinvoq helped visibly repair the colon lining. check. rapid symptom relief. lasting, steroid-free remission. and a chance to visibly repair the colon lining.

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at your local xfinity store today. well, we fell in love through gaming. but now the internet lags and it throws the whole thing off. when did you first discover this lag? i signed us up for t-mobile home internet. ugh! but, we found other interests. i guess we have. [both] finch! let's go! oh yeah! it's not the same. what could you do to solve the problem? we could get xfinity? that's actually super adult of you to suggest. i can't wait to squad up. i love it when you talk nerdy to me. guy, guys, guys, we're still in session. and i don't know what the heck you're talking about. 51 past the hour. we want to update you on the deadly shooting. teams are still sweeping the campus for the suspects. they're telling everyone to remain sheltered in place as this hours long manhunt

continues. the shooter is christopher darnell jones, a student at the school and that he's armed and dangerous. he's accused of shooting five people last night, killing three of them. it is not clear if the victims are students yet. we'll keep you posted and i've gotten on the text that uva students are getting and they're getting repeated texts saying law enforcement search on and around uva grounds continues. remain sheltered in place. expect increased law enforcement presence so the kids on campus there, everyone shelt nerg place and they're telling everyone in charlottesville to stay shut down and stay in place. so we'll keep you posted if there are any developments. new information coming in, we'll bring it to you. we will turn back now to the major surprises from last tuesday's election. nbc news projects democrat marie gluesenkamp pence has defeated

joe kent. she is a small business owner running an independent auto repair shop. republican congresswoman jamie herrera butler, first won the seat back in 2010 but was ousted earlier this year in the republican primary. she was one of the ten republicans who voted to impeach former president donald trump for his role in the january 6th insurrection. trump targeted her for political retribution by backing kent. the congresswoman elect joins us now. we appreciate your coming on this morning. congratulations first of all. >> thank you so much. >> what do you think put your race over the edge to make you the winner? >> well, i think people in my district, you know, they want a congress that looks like america. they want congress with a little bit of grease under their fingernails who knows how to fix things. i was the candidate who could

fill that role. i think we're all tired of click-bait politics. we want people in congress to work, not to get twitter celebrity. >> congresswoman elect, sam stein here. for those who didn't see it i would recommend watching the video you did with more perfect union where you talked about rural democrats and building things as opposed to tearing things down as a political appeal. sort of curious if you look at this election as a rebuke of maga republicans, your opponent being one. it's not crazy to say. democrats have had a real difficulty reaching rural voters. they've lost a lot of ground among rural voters. what lessons on a policy, communications and a political level should they draw from what you were able to do or frankly was it just you were in the right climate against the right opponent? >> we need to start running rural candidates and candidates who work in the trades if we want to be relevant in those

places anymore. i mean, rural democrats are almost an endangered species now. i think we need to take a real, hard look at why that is and how to right that ship. rural voices are critical to an america that's functioning, delivering the same quality of life and resources to our kids that we had. >> congresswoman elect, you will come to washington quite probably with the republicans in charge of the house of representatives. how much do you think you're going to be able to do for your district? what are your priorities? what do you want to get done in the first two years? >> our priorities are very clear. support for small businesses. i think that both parties, frankly, have failed to deliver a level playing field that works for everyone. you know, we've got to address crime. my auto shop, i've had my windows broken four times this year. i happen to like it when the police come when i call them. we've got to start addressing these issues that influence people's quality of life and get things back on track.

>> tell us a little bit about your district just for the people that are watching. tell us for the people that you are about to go to washington and represent. >> and the voters that turned out for you. >> this is southwest washington. lots of timber, lots of fishing, lots of shellfish. vancouver is one of the longer cities. i'm fifth generation loggers in my family, worked in the woods. a lot of paper products. would love to see a resurgence and replacement of plastic packaging with paper that we make in southwest washington. some of the endorsements i am proudest of. i was endorsed by the clark county vice chair of the republican party. many, many republicans stood with us in this race because they realized that it's got to be about patriotism and not partisanship if we want to fix what's broken. >> congresswoman elect marie

gluesenkamp perez. thank you for coming on. >> congratulations. >> thank you. still ahead, two democrats who helped hand republicans a slate of historic election losses in colorado. governor jared polis and secretary of state jena griswold will be our guest. "morning joe" is coming right back. ♪ ♪ ♪♪ voltaren. the joy of movement. ♪♪ space. the boundary of human achievement. the new frontier. ♪♪ eh. ♪♪

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now we see 2022. his candidates are putting them in a position. >> you see what's supposed to be a run away red year wave. >> house was, we have a red wave. >> if we get a good sprinkler system. >> run through the new signs. might not see a red wave in november? >> the prospects of this red wave in november which should be massive, but looking like it's going to be a bit more tempered. >> new reporting on the specific signs republicans hope for a red wave are receding. >> if these numbers hold over the next couple of months, then it's less likely that you are going to have that massive red wave. >> still the case that they're likely to end up in control of the house of representatives, but the notion of a red wave, gone. >> that's some of what we were saying on "morning joe" right

before the mid-term elections. there was a lot, joe. >> yeah. >> a lot of nerves about the future of our democracy and also whether or not the democratic message was clear enough and was hitting all the notes. at the same time, you could see like the red wave was being predicted but it didn't feel right. >> the reason we didn't see -- the reason i didn't see it is, again, you look to the polls that were really good, the marquette polls. don't listen to right wing hacks or left wing hacks. this time it was right wing hacks attacking john roslstn. he was right in nevada and right to the very end. it's very interesting. there's a history here.

welcome back to our third hour. caddy kay, mike barnacle and reverend al sharpton. jen, i know you understand how unbelievably different, how historic what the democrats did in the senate is and what they've done across the country. it's not happened since 1934 that state legislatures for the party in power didn't lose these state legislatures. biden may actually pick up a governor. you worked with president obama who in 2014, if i'm not mistaken, a guy who had just won two years before, he lost 9 senate seats in 2014 he lost 6 senate seats in 2010. this was the first democrat since fdr to win two elections with a majority of the vote. that's why it's so unbelievable

what joe biden has done all across the board here. >> and it is. you know, you're saying how polls were showing that the races were closer than they really were on behalf of republicans. and it just didn't feel that way. i was in -- i remember being in pennsylvania right after the fetterman/oz debate. talking to a couple of young guys in their 20s. they were trump reporters. what's going to happen with the mid-terms? democrats are going to win because of abortion. sometimes it's just not that complicated. when you look at the historic nature of this win, yeah, in 2010 we lost 42 seats in the house but this is just like -- it's just that kind of -- it's just that kind of smackdown. and you see at every level the republican gains aren't working. back to pennsylvania. look at the specificity of the impact of some of these polls,

these push polls that are republican based. there is one that came out that week of the fetterman/oz debate. insiders, they had the advantage. it showed oz up 3 points, right? that was meant to hurt fetterman that there was a bad impact from the debate. now we come to find out that people really respected the fact that fetterman went up and debated, it took a lot of courage. what oz said about the abortion -- about abortion and local leaders playing a role in that really hurt oz and the debate was a net positive for fetterman. so there's all these tools that republicans are trying to use to skew these elections and people just said, no. like we get it. >> yeah. you know, mike barnacle, you look at one poll after another, one scam poll after another. again, we didn't fall for it because we were looking at good polls. i will say also it's amazing when you expand the sample size,

this private poll that somebody sent on to me that a entrepreneur had spent a lot of money because he wasn't connected with anybody. he wanted to know how things were going to break and they nailed the races. they nailed everything. when i was looking at that two days before the election i said, there's just -- there's no red wave here. of course you heard it from heilman and the rest, there was no red wave. the scam polls on the right, the arrogance of actually some of these poll aggregators and other people on the far right going -- or on the trump right going, we're going to win in washington state. that race is close. the race is close in new hampshire. i mean, think about the garbage polls that actually had maggie hassan losing that race or having -- >> right. >> -- that race tight to the very end. i just hope two years from now

when we're looking at these poll aggregators that these hacks that run these polls for parties and for candidates isn't aggregated because it gives i think the media, not us, but i think too many people in the media writing articles about how it was a fait accompli, this red wave. my god, some of the garbage that i heard on podcasts the final week from people that work at respected places. just pure unadulterated garbage mocking democrats for their disastrous approach which, again, they were predicting going to lead to a red wave. i mean, it was obvious to us there wasn't a red wave. >> you know, joe, i think part of the problem is the way we cover things. things happen so quickly, so fast. we move from one poll to another and we try to make judgments on this poll and then an hour later there's another poll but given the distance, about a week's

distance between today and the elections last tuesday, i'm beginning to wonder if we've all underestimated the impact of the president of the united states speaking about the dangers to democracy. and people see that speech in clips. they don't want the whole speech, but they see it in clips from their phones, sometimes on the tvs at home and he was calm. he was concise, he was clear. he was normal and he was sort of the opposite of the chaos that surrounded so much of this election, this crazy language. >> i know. >> hey, mike -- >> yeah. >> you used the word normal. i want to bring up something that you told me years ago, and i don't know if we're supposed to reveal who the aide was but there was an aide very close to george w. bush and, you know, you were joking with him about how bush, you know, he gave david letterman all the material

he wanted. and this aide said, you know what that does? and he said, we see it in polling. when bush stumbles around, doesn't exactly know what words to say, maybe he does something that makes him look a little bit goofy, this person said to you, and i never forgot it, said, yeah, it shows americans he's a real guy. >> yeah. >> shows them that he may have been raised in this patriarchal family, he may have gone to yale, but at the end of the day he's more west texas than new haven and he shows it. and i think that's -- you see that in joe biden. >> absolutely. >> the guy from delaware. >> absolutely. the other aspect of it, the president of the united states is now covered no matter what he's talking about, we'll raise it again probably at the press conference coming up with president xi, we'll reflect on his age. he knows -- >> yes. >> -- how old he is. he knows when his birthday is.

he's going to be 80 years of age in another week or so but we focus on the age as apart from the accomplishments. if you're standing in line at cvs and you're getting a break on your prescription costs and you're 70, 75 and saving some bucks, that's what's important to you, not his birthday. >> now i totally agree. he's just -- time and time again under estimated. it keeps happening. another person who fits that description when you talk about bush, and he's like me and i can relate, is fetterman. >> exactly. >> as opposed to oz. >> yeah. >> who's like, who are you? what's your grocery store? >> fetterman again. we showed a clip. used his struggle, the fact he had good health care. you should have good health care. the people of pennsylvania, he turned that disadvantage into an advantage and i do want to say one word about oz. i want to say a word about

mastriano. i want to say a word about a lot of people that have conceded the races. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> yeah. >> they conceded their races. they aren't running around screaming that the races were stolen. you fwhee -- >> we'll take it. >> -- we'll take it and also i respect people that get involved in politics on both sides. you know, if you win, you win. if you lose, you lose. here's doug mastriano. a guy swept up on election denying on january 6th. he actually went to the capitol. showing you difference between january 6th, 2021, and where we are in november 2022. doug mastriano said this. difficult to accept as the results are, there is no right course but to concede. that, my friends, revolutionary in the republican party. >> absolutely. >> just six weeks ago, which i do. and i look to the challenges ahead. josh shapiro will be our next governor and i ask everyone to

give him the opportunity to lead and pray that he leads well. let me just say, jim palmieri, a return to normalcy again as a former republican, i can tell you when i saw al gore concede an election that he lost because the supreme court went right down political lines 5-4, he still picked himself up -- >> very beautiful. >> -- he brushed himself off he gave without a doubt his most important speech and his greatest speech that night not because he was conceding to a republican president but because he was acknowledging the beauty of democracy. >> it was -- i remember -- i mean, i remember. i worked for president clinton. it was tough to watch al gore do that, but when we look at it 20 years on how important it was.

i'll tell you what was really tough was watching my boss hillary clinton do that on wednesday, november 9th, 2016, standing up, you know, at a hotel not far from here to concede to trump, to have called him the night of the election to congratulate him and talk about, you know, how she was going to do whatever she could to help him and wish him well in leading the country. and the fact that i was stunned and really happy to see these number of republicans, tudor dixon in michigan as well, oz, mastriano concede, but they see the writing on the wall. people are not willing to tolerate this in like very big numbers people said that on tuesday. >> yeah. so this brings us to another key result of the election as highlighted by this morning's cover of the post. deniers denied with the paper

noting that all the trump-backed candidates in key states who denied the 2020 election results while vying to be their state's top election official lost their race. joining us now, nevada's newly elected secretary of state, democrat cisco aguilar who defeated one of those republican election deniers. also with us colorado's democratic secretary of state, jena griswold. she is chair of the democratic secretaries of state. >> jena, i would guess when you got that position, this is a good position to have. >> like it. >> important position to have. >> yeah. >> i feel really good about this. >> part of everything. >> i bet you never thought that you would find yourself in this position where actually it was the secretary of state's races that we were looking at as much as the governor's race. >> so pivotal. >> to figure out the future health of american democracy.

remarkable, and that new york post headline, deniers denied. what does that mean to you as an american and as someone who's dedicated your life to making sure that citizens' votes are counted fairly and accurately? >> well, first off, good morning. thank you for having us both on. you know, actually, joe, i was elected to this position by my fellow democrats on the heels of the insurrection. so right from the beginning we knew that safeguarding americans elections would be key to this election cycle. but to see the rise of extremism so quickly and election deniers run in every swing state definitely was a big task. i am just so happy everybody at the democratic association of secretaries of state is overjoyed that we stopped election deniers from becoming secretary of state in every swing state in this nation where

we had a race. >> amazing. that's amazing. >> cisco aguilar, how important is your win? >> it's extremely important just given the fact that we were able to flip nevada from a republican secretary of state to a democratic secretary of state but also, too, we were able to defeat the chair of the america first coalition. being able to take out the leader is a great accomplishment and it shows that nevadans is going to give them a vision they want. this shows to the rest of the country. nevada will have the opportunity to elect the next president in '24. they know their vote will matter. every vote will be counted. we'll secure our elections. >> cisco, jim marchant said he was going to fix nevada so trump could carry on.

when you spoke to nevadans, were you getting the sense that your election was pretty secure because they were going to reject the idea of politics, they were going to reject the idea that somebody would put the fix into the system so the democrats could win in nevada? was it clear to you as you spoke to people on the ground? >> yes, very clear. it was both in our urban and our rural communities. we spent significant time meeting with voters in the rural communities who have a strong voice about what our state should be and where we should go in the future. they were concerned that somebody was going to unilaterally walk into the secretary of state's office and do something to take away the voice of many nevadans. when you try to silence a community, that's when we're going to stand up and fight back even harder. >> so secretary griswold, what is the work that is ahead of you? what needs to be done? >> well, first off, i do think we have to really celebrate what we just came out of. make no mistake, we were at a fork in the road and this nation

could have done -- gone down the path of extremism, the big lie rolling back fundamental freedoms and i do believe that this is one of the most important mid-term elections in america's history. we went down the right path and we can continue to protect the right to vote. but with that said, the coordinated effort to roll back voting rights is not over so democratic secretaries of state, we are going to continue to push back on the conspiracies. we are going to continue to try to open up access even further to make sure that every eligible voter has their voice heard in the up coming election if you can believe it. >> yup. chair of the democratic association of secretaries of state. colorado's secretary of state,en na griswold, thank you so much for coming on this morning and nevada's incoming secretary of state cisco aguilar. thank you as well. thanks to you both. thank you for your service. and joining us now, majority

whip jim clyburn. the third ranking democrat in the house. so great to have you on the show this morning. first, we'd love to ask you how you would characterize what just happened over the weekend for democrats? >> well, thank you for having me. this is definitely one of my proudest moments. i have been studying history all of my life. i started when i was an 8-year-old studying harry truman and tom dewitt all the way through college, teaching it at the high school level and i was real concerned for the last several years that our country was teetering on edge. this is a great country, i admit it. very clear that i believe it is, but our challenge is always trying to make this country's

greatness accessible and affordable for all of its people. it looked to me that several entities in our country had given up on their pursuit of a more perfect union, had decided that autocracy might be the better way. and so i started saying in october of last year when i was speaking to the council, community's council in my district, i thought it was time to step outside of our comfort zones and make some decisions about conserving the integrity of this democracy. and i saw that happen last tuesday. democrats, republicans, independents coming together to preserve this pursuit of a more perfect union. that's what happened. stepping outside of our comfort zone. there are a lot of republicans i talked to, a lot of independents

who looked uncomfortable voting for democrats but they did because they decided to put the country's future above the politics of the moment and i am very proud of that. i am so proud. i talked to my three daughters, my grandson. we were ecstatic over the results of last tuesday. >> remarkable. so, jim, so much to look at, and you look at that new york post headline that says deniers denied, that people that were election deniers running against democracy, they lost in the swing states. that was great. and i love -- i always love looking on the positive side of things. i do want to ask you about a guy though that you and i have both known for a very long time personally for a very long time

who represents perhaps i don't know if it's a dying strain of trumpism, but lindsey. you know, lindsey's come out and made suggestions that elections might be stolen out west. we saw what he did. he's being forced to testify before a grand jury because he was calling the republican secretary of state two years ago in georgia. the secretary of state of georgia who got re-elected, it seemed like lindsey was telling him to throw out legal votes. i'm just wondering, do you think that the results of these elections will make lindsey and other republicans rethink their trumpism? rethink the anti-democratic path they've taken over the last couple of years to be election deniers and to throw american democracy and our voting system into doubt?

>> i absolutely hope so. not just lindsey and republicans. i had some of my own friends, some who call themselves democrats who felt that this bombastic language, i don't know what they call the activities of some republican candidates was the way to go. they were saying to me, i like joe biden's agenda but i think his approach needs to be beefed up a bit, needs to be a little more in your face. joe biden's approach and agenda were exactly the things we needed in this country and that's what people voted for. people voted for this country's greatness. we are a great country. we are good people and people voted to maintain both their goodness and their greatness.

i think joe biden is exactly what we needed. back ten years ago i had said that. i said we know joe but most importantly joe knows us and i think he's what we need for 2024 as well. >> congressman, many people know you as a congressman and a whip but don't know how you and your beloved late wife emily were civil rights and voting rights activists in your youth, that's how you all met and came along. how important is it now that we have seen the senate maintain democratic? and it may go republican majority in the house but not by much? how important is it now that we preserve voting rights and this we move from a celebration to really legislation to get through voting rights legislation and some of the

things that we won for, to have the victory and forget why we had the victory would be, in my opinion, something that would be very damaging. >> i think it's very, very important. that's what's important about this georgia election. you know, the first time i met john lewis, martin luther king junior was at moore house campus in 1960. georgia is still at the center. we need to win this election, this runoff and i'm calling on georgia, people who think that it is the right thing to do, to preserve the integrity of the ballot. come out and vote in this runoff election. 51 is a little better than 50 plus 1. then what we've got to have is really some conversations with people. i do believe -- we've known the voting rights of 1965 if it had not been for the leadership of

republicans. i'll always believe that we must bring republicans and democrats together that allowed lyndon johnson to get that across the line. democrats and republicans should come together in this lame duck session and pass the john r. lewis voter rights and advancement act so that we can preserve the integrity of our elections. the gerrymandering did not work as well as they hoped. it did work pretty good up there in new york, but it did not work as people had hoped. let's stop all the foolishness. let's preserve the integrity of the ballot. let's pass the john r. lewis voting rights advancement act. let's pass a bill to do something about reforming the electoral college so that people have faith and confidence when they go to the polls that their votes will be counted.

>> jim clyburn. >> great to see you. >> we want to update you. there has been a shooting on the campus of the university of virginia. the shooting happened at 10:30 last night but the suspect, the shooter who authorities say is a student at the school, christopher darnell jones, is still at large and law enforcement say he is armed and dangerous. they are texting students, telling students to shelter in place and to expect law enforcement to be all around the area. reports getting from the school is that the kids are in their dorms and they're seeing lights flashing everywhere and cop cars cruising the streets looking for christopher darnell jones who allegedly shot three people at least, three people dead and two more wounded in a shooting, a

mass shooting that took place at 10:30 last night on the campus of uva. charlottesville itself is also on lockdown. local schools are closed. businesses are closed. again, the shooter is at large and is expected to be armed and dangerous. we're following that developing story and we will keep you posted. still ahead on "morning joe," president biden is expected to give remarks and take questions on the heels of his meeting with chinese president xi jinping this morning. we'll bring that to you when it gets underway. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. >> tech: when you get a chip in your windshield... trust safelite. ♪ upbeat, catchy music ♪ >> tech vo: this couple counts on their suv... as they travel for their small business. so when they got a chip in their windshield...

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to being. the party of trump. >> if you lose over and over again, the theme. how do we have a more hopeful, positive vision. how do we appeal to a broader group of voters. in some cases we've fired up the base but we've turned off wide swathes of swing voters. >> charlie sykes. poor charlie. every two years i call him at midnight. you know wisconsin better than anybody. what's going to happen? >> he told me 2020, he said, biden has enough. he's going to get enough out of milwaukee. biden's going to win this thing. then you call the governor's race and the senate race right and you said barnes was going to come up a little bit short and he did. i'll tell you, charlie, for me, what really was a sign about two

days out. i got my hands on a poll from a businessman with a lot of money. it was in wisconsin. perhaps the politician, and i mean this as the highest compliment. perhaps the politician with the least charisma in america. was up 2 points in this poll and that was governor evers. that worked out right. that number popped out. i said, my god, people in wisconsin be. that means people in america want normalcy. talk about that. if you will, the super charged political environment of wisconsin. explain how remarkable it is

that a man is -- as normal and straightforward as evers wins in the most tumultuous times of donald trump. >> well, you're absolutely right. it's not an insult to tony evers to say he lax charisma. this was a vote for normalcy. what was the mid-term about. abortion, a push back against denialism. tim michaels, the trump-backed republican for governor was an election denier who would have turned over control of the election process to partisans. what's really extraordinary about this is looking at the trends. milwaukee's vote was actually down. tony evers managed to turn out massive numbers of votes in dane county.

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so here's how we got to democrats maintaining control. long considered one of the most vulnerable democratic incumbents. republican challenger backed adam laxalt to give them 50 seats. kamala harris being the tie-breaking vote. democratic incumbent mark kelly, collects seat number 49 when his race was called the night before defeating another trump-backed

candidate. the senate being decided takes some of the focus away from the georgia senate runoff which decided the majority back in 2020. >> for governor. remaining statewide. lake trails hobbs by just over 26,000.

70,000 ballots which have so far favored hobbs. so we're still on the race for arizona governor. kari lake not having an easy time. >> she now needs to get between 58 and what comes out tonight. but, you know, she will be the last person standing in a major race that was an election denier because voters in the six battleground states where donald trump tried to reverse the 2020 election results rejected election denying candidates, every one of them in this year's mid-terms. it's the latest sign that americans are just saying no to trumpism. the washington post writes, candidates for secretary of state in michigan, in arizona, in nevada who had echoed trump's

false accusations lost their contests. a fourth candidate never made it out of his may primary in georgia. in pennsylvania one of the nation's most prominent election deniers lost his bid for governor. a job that would have given him the power to appoint the secretary of state and wisconsin, the election denying contender's loss in the governor's race effectively blocked a move to put election administration under partisan control. also notable, that election denying republican candidate for pennsylvania governor -- >> wow. >> -- he conceded last night. doug mastriano lost to josh shapiro. took him five days to concede but he shifted and he said as difficult as it is to accept these results, there is no right course to concede which i do. i look to the challenges ahead. josh shapiro will be our next governor.

>> deniers denied. >> no matter what state you were in. >> coming up, last year senator rick scott made a bold statement. i don't waste money and i don't lose elections. >> wrong. wrong.

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i can say this with confidence. i will never ask a potential donor to contribute more than i already have given. i run a tight ship. i respect our donors. there are two things i don't do. a complete disappointment. we have to reflect now, what didn't happen? i think we didn't have enough of a positive message. we've said everything about how bad the biden agenda was. it's bad. the democrats are radical. but we have to have a plan of what we stand for. >> i feel like i need to give a public service announcement to

lobbyists on k street. i know when i was in washington i didn't really hang out with you that much. i didn't go golfing with you. didn't go to, like, football games. i just didn't do that. i'm kind of, you know, cranky. i don't get out very much. that said, i do feel the need as a public service to you, lobbyists in washington, d.c., and across america, if you want to watch your money burn, if you want to pick a political party that literally burn millions and millions and hundreds of millions of dollars of your money, that guy, he can do it, and the republican party can do it. they wasted so much of your money. but here's the good news. instead of talking about inflation and talking about, oh,

i don't know, the recession, talking about things that actually impact their lives every day, they talked about your billions of dollars. if that really bothers you, good on you. you sent out mailers from florida to washington state from san diego up to the farthest reaches of maine. they burned your money. they wasted your money in '18. they wasted your money in '20. [ sigh ] they wasted your money in '22. and they keep getting more extreme. you give them money and they have really extreme issues, and then they just -- they light a match and put your billion dollars here and -- and that -- >> you've been very helpful this morning. that's sweet. >> i'm trying to make up for not spending a lot of time --

>> that was senator rick scott's message to republicans. >> save yourself. >> january of 2021 versus his excuses on friday for losing. >> but he said he'd never lose elections. >> he just did. he'll have to adjust. >> lost big elections. i want to come back right now if we can. really, again, it's crazy how much money they lost. charlie, back to you. two polls i saw in the last week when everybody was talking about the red wave. barnes, the great marquette poll had barnes one, two points behind. they nailed it. also, i listened to john lawson. and i will say these right-wing freaks and also trump propagandists were mocking and ridiculing john saying he's doing this because he hates laxalt and, oh, on and on and

on. if you looked at the good polls, you could see things were breaking in a lot of different directions. i guess here's my question. like, how could it be that certain websites and certain news agencies got suckered by all of those phony trafalgar polls, all of those republican polls? >> yeah. >> all got suckered. i'll be honest with you, i expect some sites to follow it because they play to right-wingers. and right-wingers believed mitt romney was going to win by 11 points. if they want to bathe in stupidity, and they can, i was surprised, though, looking at 538, which i now go to, because they're the best, they didn't even have trafalgar up. they say a republican poll. wait. this is propaganda. why are you putting this -- and i really think it threw off a lot of people in the media. they followed those right-wing garbage polls. >> no.

you're right. look, there's a lot of confirmation bias, a lot of wish casting there, but there are a lot of media bubbles as well. and i think the republicans got them caught in all of this. but, you know, i was thinking about -- and the conventional wisdom has shifted radically toward the red wave and it was sort of the pundit mind. but i was thinking about something you said earlier about the reaction to the paul pelosi attack, because in the last couple weeks, one thing that you started to see was that the republicans had really internalized the idea that nothing matters, they could mock the attack on an 82-year-old man, they could look the other way when donald trump is throwing ketchup against the wall and attacking people, you know, calling mitch mcconnell's wife cocoa. they would believe there are no consequences for any of their extremism, the election denial, the bad taste, all of those things, and really what this

election was about was telling them no, in fact, there are consequences, we are paying attention, and you're scary, you people are scary. people like rick scott are out there complaining about it. look, rick scott was at the table. he was the guy that floated the idea of, you know, changing social security and medicare, all of those things rather than talking about the issues that most people actually wanted to hear about. but i do think that the republican party talked itself into believing that they were living in this sort of trumpian it doesn't matter what we do or say world, and now we wake up and realize, no, actually people want normalcy and people were paying attention to your lunacy and your extremism in the last couple weeks. coming up, our next guest cruised to re-election in colorado. governor jared polis joins the conversation as democrats keep control of the united states government.

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watch me. ask your rheumatologist about cosentyx. when you're through with powering through, it's time for theraflu hot liquid medicine. powerful relief so you can restore and recover. theraflu hot beats cold. it seemed like this was a race you'd easily win. it's been a real nail-biter. you and your opponent are currently neck and neck. >> that is because the maricopa county officials are incompetent, and it's my belief that the election is rigged and the results should be thrown out. >> it sounds like some new numbers are coming in