story. regardless of what happened there, this war needs to end with a ukrainian victory as soon as possible. otherwise, it will spread to europe. >> igor, thank you for your time and for being with us this afternoon. and thanks to all of you for watching this busy hour of msnbc. seal you here tomorrow. nicole wallace picks it up with "deadline whitehouse" right now. >> hi, everyone. 4:00 in new york. breaking news out of europe today. the associated press is reporting that russian missiles have reportedly struck poland. a member of nato, killing two people. the explosion reportedly took place at a grain processing facility four miles north of the ukrainian border according to a report in "the new york times." the defense department says that they are aware of reports of a missile landing in poland but are unable to corroborate the reports at this hour. and just in the last hour,

president zelenskyy posted a video message reacting to the news out of poland calling it a significant escalation. news of the ex close comes in the wake of a barrage of missile attacks by russia on ukraine. 100 missiles striking targets across ukraine, including the power grid in kyiv ljviv. it is one of the largest waves of mile strikes against ukraine. it comes after the russian defeat and withdrawal in the key city of kherson a week ago. president biden is with world leaders at the g20 summit in indonesia. it is a summit meeting that vladimir putin notably skipped. no show, avoiding a public confrontation with the west over his invasion and war in ukraine. it's where we begin our breaking news coverage today.

joining us greg mowry and barry mccaffrey, former member of the national security council now an msnbc military analyst. we saw president zelenskyy describe this as a major escalation. tell us more. >> yeah. in terms of the russian missiles, the russians have been doing this for the past month and this was perhaps the biggest, not only in the past month, but in the war. close to 100 missiles. every major city. they did damage. power out here in kyiv, half the city has lost its lek tlisty. you may have -- the video you were playing there, that apartment building on fire. we were there just a couple of hours ago. people were standing around saying, you know, why are you hitting this place? what are the russians doing? absolute -- they are no longer in shock because it happened so many times, but they are just,

there is this bewilderment of why it's happening. this was an ordinary apartment building. as we were standing at in the darkness, the light came on the ukrainians are good at turning the lights back on after the russians knock them out with these attacks. the question is can they do it fast enough. half a dozen major cities have suffered hits today. >> general mccaffrey, senior white house official is urging calm while they gather information. can you tell me what that information gathering process looks like at the highest levels of the white house, the pentagon and the state department? >> it will be a lot easier and any artillery second lawsuit that goes to the site of the craters of these errant missiles can instantaneously take a video of it, upload it and it gives you the as met which it was fired, the tail fins will be

there, there will be fragments. we will knowing exactly, and i am sure it was a russian missile. so this is probably less important than it may seem at first glance. this was not, in my view, even remotely possible that it was a deliberate attack on a nato country. it will get very serious attention from the nato council starting this afternoon, this evening. but that wasn't what it was. these are lousy -- they are firing many of them from the black sea or over belarus or over russian airspace. they are not very accurate. it may have been thrown off course by anti-aircraft fire. but i think the bottom line is the russians, as usual, blindly are lying about it. so we'll have to see how it comes out. but we'll know today whether it was a russian strike. i'm sure it was. and i'm relatively sure it was

inadvertent. >> if the russians don't want an article 5 style response from the west, why lie about this? why not come out and say what you just said, our missiles are junkie, this was a mistake, please stand down? >> you know, that famous saying, you can't help stupid. that's just what they do. this is the culture. i have been watching russian state tv and it is simply unbelievable what they're saying to themselves and to the russian people. they are living in a fantasy world. this is just normal behavior on the part of the russians. it will get political attention in nato councils, nevermind the eastern frontier states, poland, romania, you know, they are going to be exercised about this. so i think the most important thing that comes out of today as our correspondent reported, this is a major strike by almost 100

missiles across ukraine to create and bring down the electrical grid and other utility systems. it has zero chance of the ukrainian people rising up and saying we will stop the war. they are tough, determined, well organized. they are bringing power back to kherson as we talk. so it's just a terror attack on civilians. it will be a miserable winter. the war will not slow down. the ukrainians will continue to press the russians. putin is in serious trouble, both at a strategic level and his army is failing on the battlefield. >> greg, this has been the description by ukrainians, including some who appear on this program. speaker pelosi and congressman himes, a member of the intelligence committee, describe

the russian strategy as a campaign of terrorism against ukraine. you know president zelenskyy has called for a terrorist designation for russia. what is the -- i mean, to be in ukraine right now is to be terrorized if you are a part of the civilian population. what is your understanding of where those efforts to clamp down either further on russia stand? >> right. i think the significant thing here is that the russian troops have done so poorly on the battlefield, they don't really have a realistic option, it seems, in terms of advancing on the ground. i think this is, seems to be making them more reliant on airstrikes, number one, but on hitting targets like civilians and the electrical power grid, as we've seen for the past month. we've seen these retreats they have in to make, most recently in kherson, and it seems to be, as they suffer the battlefield defeats, they are looking for a

way to strike back and they can't do it against the ukrainian army, but they are able to make life miserable for civilians. it's only seeming to toughen the resolve of the ukrainians who say they are prepared for a long, hard winter. but this seems to be the main russian military activity in the past month. >> general mccaffrey, if it was inadvertent and a result of our crummy missiles, why today? >> well, i think they have missed their targets on a lot of these strikes. these are not tomahawks. these are not, you know, some of our missiles will literally fly through the window you point them @a range of several thousand miles. and the russian air force, to my astonishment, has also been a failure. so they are not able to get close to the target with high performance aircraft and use

smart bombs or pinpoint accuracy. this is a failing military regime. by the way, they are running out of their own unqualitatively good precision strikes. now they are getting iranian, slow moving, small warhead drones in there. so the defense challenge facing the ukrainians is significant. we are upping the game for them. we have got, the west has put sophisticated air defense in there. at some point, however, we are going to have to give the ukrainians the ability to strike back at russian attacks based on their own territory or out at sea in the black sea. we can't give them safe haven if they are fiefg these missiles at ukrainian targets from inside russian airspace. >> general mccaffrey, is it then, i mean, do you think it's a coincidence that they struck a grain facility? food has been used as a weapon of war by the russians.

>> no. it's just a stupid mistake. either they -- and the ground and crater analysis will also tell us whether it was hit by anti-aircraft fire or missile defense system. the tail fin will be there. the crater depth, the crater direction, the fragments, we'll know all about it. but there is no quay this was a target. if they had gone after a real article 5 target, meaning the polish military, the -- we have a considerable number of u.s. military people in romania, the baltic states and poland. if they had gone after an article 5 target and killed some nato forces, this would be the opening of military action by nato against the russians. certainly in the ukraine. certainly among forces targeting the ukraine and very likely at a general attack on russian military forces.

>> greg, tell me what the sort of ukrainian media conversation is like. i know it's -- it's almost morning. but now it's almost -- i guess they are probably mostly in bed, but probably still watching the news because of the nature of this news cycle. tell me what the, you know, is there a call for more -- for the kinds of things general mccaffrey is talking about, more air defense system? is there a call for more advanced weaponry? tell me what the sort of conversation was at bedtime in ukraine tonight. >> sure, sure. a couple of things. they have been -- the ukrainians have been asking for better air defense systems throughout the war and now they are getting some more. it gets a little tricky if you have to integrate a number of different systems, the old soviet systems they had, new american systems, other systems from europe. so trying to integrate these. but they have been fast learners and that's exactly what they

want and exactly what they need. so that's very important. the other part i think is we've heard some talk and some quarters about the possibility of peace talks to resolve the war. and the ukrainians, president zelenskyy gave a speech virtually to the g20 summit today sort of saying, look, with we have made interim arrangements with the russians in the past and they rebuild and come back and attack us. then these missile strikes this afternoon. the response is do you think the kremlin is looking to de-escalate or seeking an off-ramp here? so the ukrainian response is it's going to be a long, hard fight, we are prepared for it and give us more air defense, more long-rang artillery and we're prepared to fight. they are not evening any type of resolution, off-ramp, ceasefire at this stage. >> general mccaffrey, the west response to that message from

president zelenskyy to the g20, what should that be? >> well, i think, obviously, zelenskyy's fighting for ukrainian existence. and this is not just a battle over kherson, the two breakaway new republics that russian claims, the crimea. putin clearly wants to absorb ukraine in its entirety. so a short-term diplomatic ceasefire would be to the disadvantage of the ukrainians who are winning. they don't want to see a breather for the russian army to try to rebuild itself and then take another shot at them. so we are nowhere near the end of this war. it's going to be a brought al winter. ukrainians will not back off browned attack and we need to just up the ante and give them more of an offensive capability. m 1 tanks for sure, possibly fighter aircraft and certainly

300 mile range. >> i sigh because your careful reporting, greg, and your years of experience, general, are exactly what the story like this that is still coming into focus requires. i am so grateful to have both of you. we will continue to follow this. we may call on you again in the next two hours and bring our viewers developments as soon as we get them. when we come back, we will bring our focus home for a bit with a story that has huge national security implications at home. the twice impeached ex-president is expected to launch a third presidential campaign tonight. with it he could be unleashing another round of chaos and dangerous insightful rhetoric that consumed in country for years now. the potential for more violence will be our focus.

and a calm on the house of representatives could come at any moment. the american people rejected election denialism at the ballot box last week. both parties today making key decisions about their future directions. congressman eric squall well will be our quest. and later, the triumphant pennsylvania governor-elect josh shapiro will be our guest this afternoon in the next hour. all those stories and more when "deadline whitehouse" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. after a quick break. don't go anywhere. with downy infusions, let the scent set the mood. feel the difference with downy.

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fresh off what can only be described as a nationwide rebuke of the lies and spear sis that define trumpism with the defeat of his high-profile handpicked candidates a group including the former tv anchor, celebrity doctor and a former football star, member of the far-right oath keepers united in their sfwleel to embrace trumps conspiracy theories and rhetoric that all too often sounds like the green lighting and acceptance of an air of political violence. the disgraced ex-president with an established track record of electoral defeat is widely expected on the heels of that to announce another bid for the white house tonight. it will be trump's third presidential run. it is at this point uninteresting as a political story in my opinion, but it is hugely important to our domestic and national security. the ex-president is under criminal scrutiny in multiple jurisdictions. one of those probes the investigation into his handling of classified documents has

major national security implications. he is also a candidate who is tied to an ongoing domestic violence extremist threat in america whose lies and conspiracies about the 2020 election led to the worst attack on the united states capitol in centuries. the targets of trump's smears and verbal attacks can become targets for actual violence. the attack on paul pelosi, the husband of speaker nancy pelosi, was carried out by an adherent of conspiracy theories involving crazy things, but also racist things. back in 2020, trump's own fbi director told congress under oath that white supremacists make up the biggest domestic terror threat. >> what i can tell you is that within the domestic terrorism bucket category as a whole, racially motivated violent extremism is i think the biggest bucket within that larger group, and within the racially motivated violent extremist

bucket people ascribing to some kind of white supremacist type ideology is certainly the biggest chunk of that. >> the biggest chunk of that. playing a critical role in fomenting far-right wing extremism was donald trump, whose defense of white supremacists and pedaling of wheat supremacist rhetoric is a hallmark of his political career since he announced his first run for the republican nomination in 2015. >> when mexico sends its people, they are not sending their best. they are not sending you. they are not sending you. they're sending people that have lots of problems. and they are bringing those problems with us. they are bringing drugs. they are bringing crime. their rapists. >> and you have some very bad people in that group. you also had people that were very fine people.

on both sides. >> you want to call them -- what do you want to call hem? >> white supremacists -- >> proud boys. >> proud boys, stand back and stand by. i will tell you what. somebody's got to do something about antifa and the left because this is not a right-wing problem. >> oh, but it is. joining us jonathan karl, abc news chief washington correspondent, the author of betrayal out in paperback. also lexi, axios political reporter and msnbc contributor and frank is here former fbi assistant director for counterintelligence now an msnbc national security analyst. john, i start with you. and again i think here we have covered donald trump really for the better part of more than two years, about three and a half years, as a threat, someone happy to stoke violence. your book is the definitive body of reporting on how that came to

pass. what are you watching for not just in trump but in the country if he announces another bid to run for office again? >> well, i'm watching for the reaction of the republican party to this, nicole. donald trump left office on january 20th of 2021 a pariah. he left in disgrace. he would face his second impeachment trial. seven republican senators vote to convict him. but even those who didn't talk about him as a, you know, somebody that was a danger to the country, but the calculation seemed to be, well, he is gone now. why impeach an ex-president? we don't have to worry about him any more. now to see him apparently launching yet another presidential campaign and it being taken seriously by positions in -- by people in positions of authority, i mean, you elise stefanik come out

before the announcement and endorse his candidacy. you see that he has support among a significant segment of the electorate. it's not what it was, but it's big. it's depending on the polls you're looking at, you know, he is the frontrunner for a republican presidential nomination. even after all of that. so i am looking to how do the people in his own party respond to this. >> jon karl, let me show you what liz cheney, who was once in his own party, now she is a bit of a king maker in the other party, in these midterms, let me show you what she had to say about tonight. >> this is certainly not the rollout i am sure donald trump wanted for his announcement tonight. but, it's also not the first time he has been totally detached from reality. i think though it's also really

important for people to look at what's happening and what he is doing not just through a political lens, but through the basic facts of his total lack of fitness for office. he is unstable. the january 6th committee has laid out very clearly his direct and personal involvement in every aspect of the plan to overturn the last election. he is someone who knowing that the mob was armed, sent them to march on the capitol to try to stop the count of electoral votes. and then while the bloody battle was underway at the capitol, despite everyone around him pleading with him to tell the mob to stop and go home, he wouldn't do it. he sat and watched it on television. so there is no question that he is unfit for office.

and i feel confident that he will never be president again. >> jon karl, that is not just a political indictment from liz cheney. it sounds like what could become the text of a criminal referral. is that afoot by the january 6th select committee? >> it seems that she is telegraphing that. it seems to be the thrust of what she has tried to do, as we spoke when this committee first started holding its hearings. she was talking in terms that seemed to prepare for a criminal referral. and those close to donald trump clearly fear it, and it's not just what the january 6th committee is doing. it's, obviously, the -- what is happening in new york in terms of the civil and criminal cases against his company. it's the case in georgia where you had brian kemp fresh off his victory, re-election victory as

the republican governor of georgia testifying before the grand jury there. and perhaps the most immediate threat, the documents case, the classified documents case, the documents that he took with him from the white house. and i tell you, i spoke just last night with somebody very close to donald trump who said point blank that a big part of his thinking here, and maybe the decisive factor, is believing that an indictment is coming and it will be -- he will be in a better position to fight that if he is a presidential candidate and he can portray it as just a political persecution. so that is very much on the mind of donald trump and the people around him. >> and, of course, frank, is what endangers -- there is an historic threat environment around doj and the fbi, frankly, around the irs, because of donald trump's response to being under criminal scrutiny by doj for leaving the white house with classified documents not giving

them back and then lying about giving them back. what do you make of his calculations that are as jon karl just reported, firmly rooted in avoiding criminal accountability? >> yeah, and that is why for these very reasons, security, motivation, threat, that we should be watching carefully tonight. i know so many viewers say, look, i don't want to hear another word from there guy. for those of us who track threats, it's important to not only listen to what he says and how he says but the republican reaction to it because if tonight he spends considerable time inciting more violence, more anti-institution talk against the fbi, doj, plays that victim, the more those agencies have to be concerned about violence to them and those around them and in the nation. we have to ask ourselves after tonight watching his words and the republican leadership reaction to those words whether

we are watching a de-radicalization process occur. we talked about how the best de-radicalization occurs from reason the radicalized group. if they offer the radicalized an alternative, are we seeing an alternative being offered. and if we hear trump tonight call out by name gop leaders who have criticized him and he attacks them, then we're seeing -- two things probably. one is, well, they are fighting amongst themselves. more importantly, you are seeing a clear alternative being offered. republicans who get it after the midterms and maybe are going to turn towards sanity and those who don't. for those who don't, this gets very troubling because when i look back at our international terrorism strategies and i see what we did successfully against al qaeda and take the head off the leadership, and we see a decentralization that is both good and bad because as the

fringe becomes more fringe tonight, those who side with donald trump tonight and extremism, it gets harder for the fbi and the intelligence community to track a lone wolf operation, someone who is sitting at home tonight listening to whatever happens and says i'm with that guy. that guy is harder to track because he is that lone operator. it's no longer a whole group, a whole party. so i'll be watching closely tonight for his words and the words of those who respond to him. >> so incredible. we are talking about a guy in one of the country's two major political parties who is going to announce a third run tonight and it's about what happens in the country in terms of activating potentially unstable radicalized americans. it's just surreal. it's not normal to me yet, even though we have been covering this story for many, many years. my question for you is, that has been the case now, that trump wanted his enemies prosecuted, has been in the news i think since early 2018, that trump

sought to sort of corrupt the pentagon to steal voting machines has been a story that your organization and jon karl's and others have reported i think since early 2021. his intentions and efforts to corrupt the federal government have been known to republican members of the senate and house for years. that's not why we they some may not be so excited. will mitch mcconnell and kevin mccarthy be in the room at mar-a-lago? and is it just the losing that has him on the fence tonight? >> well, as you know well, mccarthy and mcconnell have been focused on their leadership elections and what's next for them. i don't anticipate either there will be at mar-a-lago tonight. the real question, whether there will be any republicans who speak out against this or are offering some sort of alternative. the republican party is having a feud, a reimagination of what

they look like basically at every level from trump to mcconnelle to mccarthy. state reps are calling to replace the heads of their state republican parties. so i think republicans across the board are making it clear they have seen that trump and trumpism and this mega style of politics is not just as losing one, but one that americans are rejecting at every level of the ballot across the country, and, you know, it comes down to winning for republicans to be sure. they see now that they didn't focus as much on the electability of some of their candidates throughout this cycle in places like pennsylvania and georgia in particular, and now that changes everything and makes their world harder in washington even though trump suspect on the ballot. so it's clear he is going to make their life harder and i think we will see some sort of cracks, certainly throughout the party. as you know well, even someone like senator josh hawley who was pretty comfortable with the maga ideology before is saying that

republican party in its current form needs to be burned down and rebuilt. >> jon karl, what does that mean? i think people should be careful not to follow that out the window. i don't think that means to snap back to something that looks which he may have disagreed with every one last one of them, but he wasn't trying to -- the things he said didn't turn up in a dhs bulletin. this is the latest dhs bulletin that the country lives under. election fraud related to the 2020 election continue to contribute to the radicalization of some domestic violence extremists. that is from donald trump. he is the one that put that into the conversation. his betrayal brilliantly tracks. it is sort of the seed that sprouts roots and leaves and becomes a deadly violent bloody insurrection. what do you make of this moment and what republicans may try to remodel mega into? >> specifically to josh hawley

as you recall in betrayal, he played a critical role in setting the stage for the attempt to overturn the election on january 6th because it was josh hawley who was the first senator who came out and joined the house republicans in saying he was going to challenge the electoral votes. it was josh hawley who opened the door to this entire effort because without a senator joining that effort, there wouldn't have been a challenge to be heard, to those electoral votes, the biden electoral votes. so we says that the republican party is dead in its current form and needs to be rebuilt, he is not talking about, you know, a republican party that's going to renounce the efforts to cast doubt in our elections, to overturn a presidential election. he is not talking about that. he is talking about mitch mcconnell. he is talking about the republicans who stood up against donald trump at various times to

varying degrees. he is talking about going further in that direction, i believe, not saying that the republican party needs to somehow moderate and reach out to independents and renounce this stuff. so there is going to be a battle. but this leadership battle right now in both houses is not really being led by those that are saying that the party needs to moderate its direction and renounce what donald trump has done. that is not -- at least in those battles on capitol hill, that is not where the energy in the party is yet. >> and to frank's point, that means that the people out there radicalized will continue to have plenty of voices amplifying their weirdest and darkest conspiracies. jon karl, it's such a treat to get to have you as part of this conversation. thank you so much for spending time with us today. >> thank you for having me on,

nicole. >> alexey, on the politics, liz cheney is everywhere all of a sudden. the democratic candidate she enforced won. her speech today was full of swagger. what's next for liz cheney? >> she is certainly taking a victory lap as you saw in her exchange with kari lake on twitter who, you know, she is now taking vicky for that. if you look at the places she got involved, places like arizona, michigan, virginia, those are critical states and also places, arizona and michigan in particular, where this idea of democracy and election deniers really mattered to voters in this election. and it's clear that that's going to continue being an issue, especially if and when donald trump brings that back up into the discourse when you announces this evening, and democrats are going to have to continue to respond to that and liz cheney helps. she comes with credibility to that conversation because of her position on the january 6th committee. and coming from the republican party itself. >> so, frank, i came back to

that because to your point about de-radicalization, you know, in sort of looking at other efforts, and again has been around foreign terrorism that i have read about this, but it seems that there is this moment where there is a divide, as you said, within the community itself. it seems too early to say that about the republicans. where do you assess what happened last tuesday, liz cheney sort of national platform and what may ensue later tonight? >> well, in a sense, i see this in part about whether the republican party understands what voters did or still are clinging to kind of the power of trump and the influence of trump. what i see voters having done through my security lens is i saw them rejecting what trump stands for. and so if the party doesn't figure that out faster, they are

going to continue to go down the bronc path in terms of democracy and security. and we'll see what happens after tonight, but the whole issue with mccarthy and whether he is speaker of the house and whether the more fringe extremists in the party are going to battle him for power and authority, this is so much bigger than politics. and i know you know that. it's bigger than that. it's about where we're going as a nation and it's not overdramatic to say that it's about the future of democracy. that's what liz cheney seems to be all about. whether she continues to hold a role that holds public service as an officeholder or other form, we need more people who put democracy and country above their own power and their own ego. and i think we will see the textbook poster child tonight of ego and self over democracy and country, because if donald trump really wanted to do what was right for his party, he wouldn't

be announcing tonight. people have reportedly told him, don't do this tonight. he is doing it for himself. you. >> yeah, always is. josh shapiro who ran for governor on the exact message you articulated will be our guest later. he won on that message, asked voters of pennsylvania, who do you want to be? who are we? and they answered. in the affirmative for democracy. stick around. next for us, democrats today taking another victory lap after securing a number of competitive house races. we'll speak to democratic congressman eric swalwell about what the ultimate makeup of congress looks like to him. that's next. next.

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on who will control the house of representatives, the two parties are heading into radically different directions on capitol hill today. on one hand applause from inside the house democratic caucus this morning, according to reporting from jake sherman, better than expected midterm showing has democrats energized, and curtain number two, republicans expected to hold a narrow majority in the house, voted today on leadership positions after predicting a red wave and not seeing so much as a trickle after a demoralizing midterm, kevin mccarthy faced a challenge from the party's right flank. he did end up winning.

still, the republican party is in the process of, shall we say, taking a quick look in the mirror. we don't know what that will result in. joining us eric swalwell of california. first, congressman, you were a voice on what voters really seemed to come out and respond to and that was a call to protect our very democracy. tell me how you are feeling one week after the midterm elections. >> feeling very good, nicole. the voters clearly rejected chaos. that's what the republicans ran on. and they awarded competence. we ran on the infrastructure bill, the c.h.i.p.s. act, the rescue plan, and that frameworked in our direction. it was really a win for democracy. and then we had this other frame of we can be a country that picks its leaders by voting or we can be a country that picks its leaders by violence.

the republicans were more comfortable with violence over the last two years. so the voters have spoken. regardless of where the majority lands, we beat every single expectation that was out there and the republicans laid an historic egg. >> an historic -- egg wasn't i would have guessed. indeed. we had a conversation ahead of the elections in the wake of the brutal attack against paul pelosi, speaker pelosi's husband husband, and the response and how different it was from when skeef steve scalise was shot and there was condemnation of political violence motivated by ideology. not so when paul pelosi was attacked by a hammer. a lot were joking about it. kari lake was making jokes to a crowd. the crowd laughed. you have been the target of a lot of political threats, threats of violence and assassination. what do you make of the rejection? do you feel like it was a rejection of this loose talk and

incitement of political violence and do you feel like that's good or is there more to do? just weigh in on that. >> the voters rejected violent rhetoric. we see it from republicans, but that was on the ballot. and andy biggs, who received 33 votes today in the republican conference running against kevin mccarthy, he made one of the worst jokes about speaker pelosi and her husband just a week ago. in contrast to every democrat at the congressional baseball game a day after steve scalise was shot, having condemned the violence and wearing his lsu in solidarity with him, it's a cruel, vile lot. and it goes to the top. the voters rejected that vile rhetoric from republicans and its leader. every exit poll showed donald trump at 55 to 60% underwater. if they want to double down on

crazy, you can lead a colt in america, but in a democracy if you lose the house in 2018, you lose the white house in the senate and '20 and don't take back the senate and you fail to meet expectations in the house, you're a loser. and donald trump is a loser and they are going to go all in with a loser and i think americans just want us to get things done. >> you are closing, your closing ad was sort of tying these things together anchored by the dodd decision overturning a constitutional right women in america have enjoyed for 50 years. how do you think that played and what is the plan going forward to try to protect women's access to abortion health care? >> well, continue to fight for them. look at here states where we can codify in those states. that turned out voters in historic ways. but also to reward and give agency to generation-z.

we have maxwell frost now in congress, a 25-year-old who was a founder of march for our lives, make sure we reward that generation and bring them to the table on the issues they care about of climate justice, racial equality, ending gun violence, health care equity. we can't ignore them. otherwise, they will walk away. >> congressman, do you spend a lot of time helping us understand the things that democrats are fighting for, the various investigations in donald trump. what is your opinion of how we should cover his announcement tonight should he announce another run for the white house? >> well, nicole, it will be interesting to see who shows up, right? who is still all in with a three-time loser, twice impeached with investigations all over the country, both civil and criminal. who wants to, as i said, triple, quadruple down on that bet? but i really do believe right now it is to quote churchill, may not be the beginning of the end of trumpism, but probably the end of the beginning.

and i welcome and hope that a responsible republican party rises out of this. but watch the house because i believe if kevin mccarthy does find his way into the speakership, he will lead the land of misfit toys. it will be a vessel state and it will form the largest law firm in washington, d.c., with just one client. and they are not going to fight for the american people. they are going to have one client and they are going to litigate all of his grievances from the border to hunter biden to the fbi to attacking trans kids and they are going to have no other agenda and do it for somebody who 60% of the population view unfavorable. >> that's the whole thing, right? they ran on all that stuff. that is what their candidacies were about. voters rejected it. i think you're right. i was in the party. we don't reject. we double down on what didn't work and that's how trump happened. how do you -- what do you do? what do democrats do in

response? >> again, govern responsibly in the senate, confirm judges who will follow the rule of law, make sure we have a cabinet that can support the effort in ukraine and be responsive to the needs of the american people. and think democrats will find a number of republicans who barely, you know, by the skin of their teeth were re-elected who are going to want to work with us, a coalition of the responsible. i saw don bacon yesterday from omaha barely won there, saying if we are going down the marjorie taylor greene crazy train, take me off, count me out. i think there will be more and they're heading. >> that is so interesting, congressman eric swalwell congrats on last week's wins. thank you for spending time with us today. up for us, chuck schumer with an interesting proposition along the lines of what the congressman is talking about. we'll show it to you next. l sho.

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and so i'm hopeful, and i'm, as you know me well, they're going to do that. they're going to say that path doesn't work. we don't even need half of a republicans, we're willing to meet them part of the way, not giving up our principals but get more things done for the american people. >> we're back with alexi mckenyan. i like when i hear that but i guess i'm cynical that

republicans have a courage to do what he's talking about. are you picking up there will be this bipartisan governing coalition in washington? oops, i think you're on mute. can you hear me? >> sorry. >> start over. say everything over. >> i was saying that i don't think that that is likely that we're going to see a significant number of republicans who certainly or suddenly want to work across the aisle with democrats. but the interesting thing is someone like senator rick scott whose main disagreement is the republicans haven't had a clear agenda of what they stand for and just fighting against democrats and their short comings. and that is a clear shift within the thinking of leadership among the party that suggests they're looking for a different way forward. but whether or not that marines working with democrats remains to be seen. the other thing i would say is look at number of republicans who ran on parts of the ira or

the infrastructure bill or touted things about the american rescue plan, even though they didn't have a hand in passing many of those things. they know what democrats are passing, it is largely popular with the american people. and so it will be curious to see whether there is any sort of common ground politically advantageous in some ways. >> they are so far away from this. they ran asors onnists trying to burn down our democracy and now they want to put on a firefighter hat and put out the fires. it is not like we have different opinions and maybe we could come around to seeing the wisdom of yours. they were working to damage our democracy and now they want -- i just think it is too far to travel. do you -- are there people that you think -- if rob portman wouldn't be part of the solution and retired and threw his weight

behind j.d. vance, i don't know who chuck schumer thinks will sit zoub at the table with him. >> whether mccarthy becomes speaker and launches all of these investigations, as congressman swalwell was just saying. that will encourage other republicans to continue carrying this water for trump and doing things that voters and americans don't want them to do and don't care about. so, i think that is certainly going to change things. also donald trump's announcement tonight and how republicans react will show whether and how there is some sort of way forward or if this is the type of politics that republicans still want to push forward. >> alexi, thank you so much for your reporting and your wisdom. it is nice to see you. >> you too. thank you, nicolle. up next for us, on our top story, president biden has been briefed on the missile that hit our nato ally poland. josh shapiro will be here just ahead.

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hi, again, everyone. it is 5:00 in new york. we're continuing with our coverage of the breaking news out of poland. here is what we know at this hour. russian missiles hit a polish town just four miles over the ukrainian border. two people were killed. poland and the nato allies are trying to determine whether the missiles were fired by mistake or intentionally. which would raise fears that this was an escalation by russia in its war against ukraine. according to a polish government spokesperson, poland has decided to, quote, increase the readiness of some military units and other uniformed sfrss and

according to reuters, they announced they are considering whether to activate nato's article four where they bring an issue of concern before the north atlantic council. they are aware of the information but can into the confirm the reports or details. a pentagon spokesperson said we don't want to speculate when it comes to our security commitments and article five we have been crystal clear we will defend every inch of nato territory. today russia launched air strikes on cities all across ukraine. described as terrorist attacks forcing widespread blackouts that left millions of ukrainians without power. in a statement, russia defense ministry deny they targeted poland calling the reports a deliberate provocation. it is where we begin our coverage this hour with kelly o'donnell. she's live in bali. where she's traveling with president biden. also joining us colonel

alexander vindman, the former director for european affairs for the national security council. kelly, i understand that president biden has spoken to president duda of poland. tell us what you're hearing from your source this is hour? >> reporter: good to be with you. we're 13 hour as head here in bali, so it is 6:00 in the morning. and we know that president biden was on the phone with president duda of poland and that call concluded about 30 minutes ago. officials didn't give us a start time. but we know that we were told around 5:00 a.m. local time that that call was going to happen. sand prior to that, national security adviser jake sullivan made a call to his counter part in poland that lays groundwork for how these things go. so at this point this is a significant development, lead tore leader contact and that may import more information to

president biden about what does president duda know about what happened on the ground, what might his expectations or requests of president biden, what might those look like. and we know that president biden and president duda have been in communication. they have been in personal contact over the ukraine war throughout these many months. and president biden has offered additional support, things like adding us forces to fortify the eastern flank of nato in poland. also additional support for the flow of refugees into poland. really in the neighborhood of what has been happening in ukraine that maybe americans don't have as much of a sense of. if you're living in poland and you're near the border, a place that president biden has visited personally and in the earlier months of this year, it is a very heightened sense of awareness that this kind of incident could happen. well here we are. where president biden is meeting

with g 20 leaders including not vladimir putin, who did flot come, but his foreign minister sergey lavrov who has been here as part of the negotiations an talks and the typical coming together of world leaders. it is awkward and difficult as it is given where russia is on the world stage right now. president biden wanted to keep the alliances strong and to try to push some of the nations that have not been as involved in supporting ukraine. this may change things. and certainly the president has been very clear about supporting any nato country and now we're in that window of time of trying to assess what happened and what kinds of consequences should follow once they have the facts. >> kelly, the russians are too sinister for coincidences. what is the white house assessment on the time of this, if it is an accidental strike in poland. the extraordinary coincidence of

an accidental, the first of this eight-month war strike on poland happening as president biden sitting with world leaders at the g 20. >> well one of things that a senior official said when they look at trying to assess what happened here, the recognition that russia has had a poor record of precision in how it is carried out its strikes. we've seen that playing out. and the fact that they have had many failed operations militarily and they have stepped up their strikes and trying to put more pressure, prying to cause fear and unrest and real tension among allies about what could happen, what more could come. and if they don't have control over their munitions, if they don't have operational capabilities like we might be more accustomed to in the west, and of course war is often fraught with mistakes. if that is what this is, and again we have to be careful, we don't have all of the facts,

then u.s. officials say it would not be surprising that russia could be responsible for an errant strike. there are questions that need to be answered and one of the big things that ukrainian has wanted is more support to protect its skies. that is a big part of the dialogue. what kinds of capabilities has the u.s. and other allies been able to provide them to try to knock down missiles to try to intercept and so forth and as ukraine has been effective at doing that, there are times when the munitions in the air go places they're not intended to go. so a big question will be what do allies here see as the likely consequences of this. if russia is culpable, whether it was intentional or inadvertent, russia would be responsible for the war it is conducted. and there are so many other consequences that leaders here are talking about that had nothing to do with the strike. the concern about energy and food insecurity, as colder

months are coming. a war has worn down the hearts and minds and souls of many around the world for the costs that have been exacted by this. the frustration that world leaders feel when they would like to be dealing with other issues and of course the inflation and the energy costs that have soared as consequences of what has been happening. but this incident could be one of those turning points that changes some of the conversation. nicolle. >> kelly o'donnell, 6:00 a.m. there, i know you have been on the air since the 2:00 a.m. hour there so thank you so much for spending this time with us, kelly. colonel vindman, let we follow you. i followed some of your tweets. but make me through your assessment of what has transpired in poland? >> yeah, so first, what we're seeing now unfold is that carefully choreographed management by this administration, they're getting quite good at this because there have been a lot of crises and

they're trying to maintain their options. so this could be an accident. the russians have been bad at the way they execute these kind of operations. this would be cavalier, a fire this close to the border with a likelihood possibility of a crossing into poland. to me this is a slow -- watching a train wreck in realtime. knowing that this would happen in a matter of time. a long war is a dangerous war, in a war in which these kind of scenarios unfold whether by accident or by intent and now we've had one and the question is what does the administration do? does it shrug it off and send a signal to russia that in the future they could potentially take this kind of action intentionally and probe for vulnerabilities, or does the administration take a very measured thoughtful, this is not a necessarily a symmetric response, this is not one that

warranted direct u.s. or nato military action, but do they offer a significant signal in response. and counter this kind of potential escalation, that is what we're going to see over the next couple of days and that is why i think we're likely to get to an article four scenario in which there is a consultation over a threat to an ally and then some additional support to ukraine and maybe some hardening of the border in nato's eastern plank. >> colonel, is there anything about the timing that to you is curious or that you have questions about? >> sure. there is multiple -- there is no such thing as coincidences with regard to russia. to me the timing is telling. they conducted a very large barrage of a hundred systems, drones and cruise missiles right after one of the key meetings in g 20. they want this to be at the top of the agenda and pressure to

build and to result in some sort of coercion of ukraine or stemming the support to ukraine. it also is on the heels of the midterm election. it was supposed to be the saving grace of the war getting something through a republican take over in the house and senate that they couldn't acleave potentially on the ground through military means and having failed to miscalculate on the fact that the elections were not going in their favor, this is a way to ratchet up the pressure. i tend to think that russias are rather intentional with some of these things. this is not a tactical decision. this is a operational or strategic system that was deplayed by senior leadership up the chain and including the selection of the targets. so i think there is some perception of intentionalality, but it is an attack on -- or it

is an incident that warranted a significant response. >> colonel vindman, it comes on the heels of this brutal blow for russia in kherson. it just seems like the crush of defeat, that came right before -- preceded the midterms not going the way we know vladimir putin would have hoped they went because a republican flirtations with cutting off military and humanitarian assistance for ukraine. just take a step back even further and talk about this moment in the war. >> so, i think we should remember that whenever russia has a major reversal on the battlefield, to lash out with whatever means they have available. and they're kind of a one-trick pony with regards to cruise missiles ab some drones that are ineffective. they've done this massive barrage of missiles after the strike on the bridge. they did it again here after kherson to indicate that they

have some teeth and they could take some action. i think we should not kind of just look at this ins accident in a vacuum. we should look at it in the context of about what we now about the way the russians operation. that they're looking for ways to potentially incrementally escalate and indicate that they still have the ability to break quite a bit of damage and that there is a potential for spillover. and in that context, i think that there is a reasonable possibility that the russians could be signaling here. with plausible deniability that this is an accident but this is the way the war could go and spill over into nato and thus forcing the west and the nato in general to start to maybe apply some additional pressure on ukraine. that is the track that they're potentially looking to exploit here. >> alexander vindman, i was riveted by your tweets and thank you for spending time with us on

this. we'll continue to call on you. ahead for us, january 6 committee vice chair liz cheney on the future of that committee's work after the twice impeached ex president defied the panel subpoena this week. plus what is next for abortion rights in america after women and young people propelled democrats to victory in a rebuke of the dobbs decision and the united states supreme court current makeup. the midterm elections show that american voters want their rights protected and restored but democrats can't and what they should and should not do for that. and the people that know the answers to all of those questions is coming up after a break. and the battle ground state candidate who ran on the big issues of abortion rights and democracy and won and won big. pennsylvania governor elect josh shapiro will join us later in the hour. "deadliine: white house" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. e. mom didn't w which way to turn. but thanks to the right plan promise from unitedhealthcare

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they've completed their public hearings. they have subpoenaed the twice impeached ex president for his testimony and now the members of the january 6 house select committee are beginning to wrap up their work. vice chair of the committee liz cheney this morning spoke about what to expect from the committee's upcoming final report. >> we have got interviews that are still underway. we have work that is going on on the final report. and, the report itself, we really recognize and take seriously that it is a historic document, historic record of the committee's work. the report will have in it

chapters that address the topics that we addressed in our hearings. they will have chapters that address additional material and additional topics. there has been some assertion that the committee is not going to produce information about the security failures, that is just simply not true. it will be a comprehensive report. >> this comment follow the defiance yesterday by the ex-president of his subpoena, the one issued by the committee last month for his testimony and documents. in a statement cheney and bennie thompson said this, quote, even though the former president initially suggested that he would testify before the committee, he has since filed a lawsuit asking courts to protect him from giving testimony. the truth is that donald trump, like several of his closest allies, is hiding from the select committee's investigation and refusing to do what more than a thousand other witnesses have done.

this is a statement references trump has sued committee, that was last week, over the subpoena of him. it is a stonewalling tactic that might work as the "new york times" reported. quote, the suit makes it highly unlikely that trump will testify given that the committee is set to dissolve in january with republicans on a path to take control of the house, it is all but certain they will not continue the inquiry, joining us now is denver wriggleman, author of the breach into the investigation into january 6. and luke broadwater, luke, let me start with you. and it was interesting and i think we had this conversation with you that the final report would be chapter and verse on donald trump's role is making it very clear that the thrust will also include a lot of recommendations about the security failings.

what to make of the congresswoman's comments shaping in the final months of exist, the committee's work product. >> right. well you know, they did have separate teams investigating all of the different aspects of the attack on the capitol. and they did have a team dedicated to investigating security failures. but that has done a lot of interviews and a lot of in depth work and we haven't seen that yet at the public hearings. we understand that some of that will be included in the final report. but as liz cheney has indicated, they do want to keep the focus on donald trump and they believe it is somewhat of a misdirection to in their view put the blame on law enforcement or the -- in their view the heros who were protecting the capitol that day rather than the person who sent the mob to the capitol and caused all of the violence. they do think it is important to investigate those things and to

produce revelations about them. but it is not as important as getting to the root causes of the violence and they think that is entirely the fault of one man and that man is donald trump. >> yeah, i mean, deborah, you could almost hear the echoes of liz cheney's framing of 9/11, that airport security is important but 9/11 was because of one man, bin laden. just talk about what is still to be revealed by committee in its final product which is this report. >> you know, if i go back to when i was there, i'm wondering about the appendix that they will add based on the other supporting documentation or evidence for what they covered in each hearing. and we're talking about security that day. for me, and i deployed for 9/11, nobody blaming law enforcement. i think what they're saying is the leadership and bureaucratic break downs, how did that contribute to the break down of security.

so for me it is very important for someone who is a military veteran and in communications but i think what they did as far as identifying trump as a person who is really framing with this the commander's intent on everybody around him on kpland and control and i think they did a fantastic job doing that. what i wonder about is in the appendix, are you going to see some of that supporting documentation evidence and data, on other individuals that were part of that. those people that were working with the proud boys an oath keepers and rally-goers. i'm interesting to see what -- how that is covered in the report as they go forward. >> and, luke, liz said in that interview, there are interviews that are ongoing. one of the can of worms that was opened and still sort of spilling out at the conclusion of the final public hearing was their inquiry into secret service. do you know where that stands or is that some of the new content that may be in the final report? >> yes.

absolutely. that is the hottest bit of investigation that is going on right now. they have been bringing in several people from that agency, more people every week. and they have just so many records that they've gone through to contribute to this report. and i do understand there are some new findings. we saw a few of them at the last hearing. but they have even more from recent interviews including some of the people who were in the motorcade and who testify about donald trump's behavior, what he wanted to go to the capitol and join the mob as they were laying siege to the capitol. so, i do think we'll see more of that and that is the most active part of the investigation right now. >> so a two part question for you, john carl said in last hour, that i asked of liz cheney is talking like somebody who has written a criminal referral for donald trump. he said that was very much a very real possibility at this point. i would love your thoughts on

that. and the second part is that clarence thomas once again voted to restrict access by the january 6 committee by records, this one is by kelli ward, the supreme court voted, he was in the minority with alito but they've allowed access to phone records. why does he keep acting like someone who doesn't want everyone to see what happened on january 6. >> metadata is very powerful. when you talk about kelli ward, you're talking about someone who could be in the political side and the legal and the militant side. so when you have individuals fighting their phone records, you wonder why. and there could be one or two calls that go to people that are rally or right extremist groups

and there are white house numbers and who was she talking to in the white house around january 6. as far as the secret service text, i would like to see what is policing. but the before and after could be very powerful. on the secret service text, if they could put that thread together it is very interesting to see who thought trump was doing the right thing and would was supporting him and things of that nature. as far as kelly word, i think you have a factor for people's whose data out there whether they realize that the technical teams have a millions of line of data and there is a link system to see the connections very quickly. and it is very, very robust. so i think you see that is why people are fighting. now as far as jenny thomas and clarence thomas, it is a surprise that he voted against this. i have a special place in my heart with the thomas' and it is to a point that there is not

more investigation into jenny thomas, i don't know what to say. i think she's key. i was one of the first to see the text messages, i think we need to do a much deeper drive into ginni thomas and some of the people around her. >> two of the best of the best. thank you so much for spending time with us today. when we come back, the future of abortion rights and abortion access in the united states of america. after voters made it a top priority for them in the midterms last week. we'll be back with that conversation after a quick break. don't go anywhere. fter a quick break. don't go anywhere. giving tuesday, giving tuesday, giving tuesday. giving tuesday is a global effort

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there was outrage across the state from so many women, not just democrats, republicans, nonpartisans, women and men, everybody that i talked to, just outrage and want to protect the right of women in this state really to make that decision themselves and leave that as a decision for women, their doctors or whoever they decide. >> the reason why they came out in droves is because they want their rights, they're rights to abortion. >> i remember an older woman in lawrence county, pennsylvania. a pretty republican community, literally joe, like grabbed me by the jacket and pulled me no noaa her face with a finger in my face, do not let us go back

to what it was like before roe. >> wow, democratic candidates what they heard on the trail and how that backlash to the republican's obsession with stripping women of the rights and the ability to control their own bodies and make their own choices. helped propel democrats over the finish line in last week's midterm elections. with the path narrowing for democrats to keep control of the house, the fight over abortion access in america continues at the state level. in georgia a judge struck down the six-week abortion ban saying that it violated the u.s. constitution and u.s. supreme court precedent whether it was enacted. in kentucky the supreme court will hear arguments over the sweeping abortion ban. joining us now, three people on this topic, ses i'll richards and former president of planned parenthood and michelle goodwin, from the university of california irvine and dr. kavita patel is back.

whether we spoke on either monday or tuesday ahead of the election, i think even we may have underestimated or at least in what we were willing to say publicly how big of a voting driver that would be. your thoughts a week later? >> no, you're right, nicolle. i think everyone was anxious. but it is incredible actually, this is a consistent story across the country. it wasn't just an isolated election or one state. and you know, i think that the entire trajectory after the dobbs decision, we saw kansas, the overwhelming vote to reject the efforts to try to ban abortion in that state. we saw that special elections and then on election day we saw a huge spike in the gender gap, vote of young people across this country who are outraged at the thought they no longer have rights to make their own

decisions about their bodies. michigan, pennsylvania, everywhere we looked. and i think one of the most interesting things is it was very consistent. it is very clear to see. we saw abortion ranking as the top voting issue for democrats across the country. and yet somehow still the republican party is seeming to be in total denial about how much the dobbs decision and their efforts to take away safe and legal abortion in this country drove voters to the polls this election. >> and michelle, they're in denial that this is the new normal. this notion that voter anger over the dobbs decision peaked too early was both tragic and hilarious to me. like we got over it. women were still actively deleting period trackers but our rage has abated by election day. this new structure around

vote -- is what voting habits look like to get to this point with the supreme court. and the first piece of exit poll stata was that 60% of voters disapproved of the dobbs decision and 60% zis approved the united states supreme court. what do we do with that broad of a coalition that does not approve direction for the country. >> i'm not surprised by the outcome and leading up this is what i was saying. they didn't account for is that mothers would be looking across the table at their daughters. that is not just democratic moms, that is republican moms. remember after that 10-year-old girl had to flee ohio, going to state of indiana, there were republican lawmakers that said it is a hoax. and then disturbingly following that was that, well if it is not a hoax, then a 10 or 11 or 12-year-old should become a mother. and any woman, not just democrat

or republican, et cetera, has to look across the table at her daughter and think if something happens to me child, am i going allow a stranger who doesn't even know us, doesn't know our values, to dictate that my 11-year-old is supposed to become a mother. especially in a country with such high maternal mortality rates. there is a failure to understand how this is an economics issue. so that as republicans were saying, what people are concerned about, is their gas prices and so forth. they don't realize that childcare is an economic issue. women's health care is an economic issue. abortion is also an economic issue. gas prices will go up an down, the cost of our broccoli up or down. but the reality is that childcare costs, the cost of raising a child, the cost of educating a child, the cost of college, these are things that are constantly going up and are staying up. it is not something that goes up and down with the market place. and so, this is time to be prepared for what is going to

happen in 2024. >> dr. patel, the problem with just focusing on the politics, though, for me has always been that there is someone today who wants access to health care that she probably can't get. what do we do for them? >> yeah, that is -- i mean, nicolle, i was just thinking, you don't remember when i was in the obama administration that we could never get complacent, because when we have have a victory, we have ten groups that soo don't have the benefit of that victory and we have that in more than a dozen states where patients and their care teams and everybody is held in paralysis because they didn't get the benefit of being in michigan or california or vermont or benefiting from the voters in kansas or kentucky. so they're all sitting today literally trying to figure out what they can do so they don't end up there jail, and what is worse, what comes back down to the patients and their families,

and they're not even seeing a light at the end of the tunnel. i saw a light last tuesday and then it kind of -- i got crept over by a little bit of the darkness. like now what. so this is great. we avoided what i would say is democratic disaster. but now what? what do we have to look forward to. so we have got to figure out ways to keep pushing on both the federal and state levels, states around, like california, is getting so much influx they don't have the capacity. we need to be as creative as possible and allow for a work force that could help people outside of the state that are in these places that can't even talk about reproductive justice and give more power to the nurses and the doctors and their teams who are trying to stand up, nicolle, in some cases up to hospital administrators that don't want to turn sideways from political pressure. they have to keep their state legislators happy so they could keep getting funding and i get that. but they're telling their teams

stand down, we don't want to offer these services even in safe states. so we need to keep it transparent and when we have one victory, remember there are so many more that need that fight. >> so what does the conversation look like with, if we start it here and keep it going. what does that conversation sound like? >> well, i think obviously we need to impress upon all of these states, we now have a third of the country where women no longer have the right to safe and legal abortion. and it looks like at least for a while now it is going to be a state by state issue. and we're going to have fight a 50 state fight. it is not the stories that we're hearing, the 10-year-old in ohio, the couple that has a very complex medically challenged pregnancy, to me what i worry about is what the minister told me in dallas the other day, i worry about the thousands of

women that we don't hear their stories because the fear that is taking place across the country now is so profound. one other thing that i think from michelle's point is really right and it -- what -- when we're seeing an older woman grabbing him by the lapels, the stories were for getting and politicians might not be aware of, people i'm hearing from too, whose children are now trying to get pregnant, having-and i remember there woman in dallas said to plea, she said, look, i don't understand why politics is involved. i just want a healthy grandchild. this is something that transcends party and income, geography and this is an american cry for justice and freedom to make decisions about our bodies, about our pregnancies and about our families. and i just hope to god somebody in the republican party is paying attention and listening.

because as michelle said, this midterm election was one moment, but this is going to continue on into this presidential election as well. >> michelle, i thought there was a moment when dr. oz said in that debate an i think everyone policed what the national response was, everyone was obsessed, as though no one has seen anyone recovering from a stoke. but oz said in the room when abortion decisions are made, should be the woman, the doctor, and local politicians. and there it is. there is always one comment that slices through like a hot knife in frozen butter and there, ladies and gentlemen, is your gop. >> that is right. it was a slip of the tongue. a freudian slip ors what it. for more than half of the girls an people for the capacity for pregnancy in this country, they are making decisions about their

families, about their lives. and this is a tragedy that is something that predates even roe v. wade. something that is not talked about is a case from 1942, a case called skinner v. oklahoma and in the case it was 9-0 and the supreme court said it was a human right, a civil right, their words, to determine one's own reproductive future and something that a state could not interfere with. now granted that case involved a man, it doesn't involve a woman. but it is often not mentioned even by the supreme court in the mix of an abortion conversation, because abortion involves girls and women and now people with the capacity for pregnancy. now, we have to pay attention to state elections not only with lawmakers but state judges as well. because millions of dollars have been poured in from anti-abortion pacs to shape the

election at state court levels. and that is where some of these fights will go to next. so it is not enough to just pull the lever when it comes to abortion on the ballot. one actually has to pay attention to who the judges are that are being elected. who are running on anti-abortion platforms which is stunning and something that hasn't been seen before. >> the three of you added so much to our ability to cover this story over the last two years. so to all three of you, thank you so much. and to be continued. thank you so much. when we come back, one of biggest winners from last week's midterm elections viewed now as a national rising star on the democratic party, he ran on protecting the right to plaque decisions about your own body and protecting democracy and he won by a huge margin. we're talking about pennsylvania governor elect josh shapiro is our next guest. don't go anywhere.

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it was time for a nunormal with nucala. nucala is a once-monthly add-on treatment for severe eosinophilic asthma that can mean less oral steroids. not for sudden breathing problems. allergic reactions can occur. get help right away for swelling of face, mouth, tongue, or trouble breathing. infections that can cause shingles have occurred. don't stop steroids unless told by your doctor. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. may cause headache, injection site reactions, back pain, and fatigue. ask your asthma specialist about a nunormal with nucala. you know, this guy loves to talk a good game about freedom. right. let me tell you something. it is not freedom to tell women what they're allowed to do with their bodies. that is not freedom. and it sure as hell isn't freedom to say you could go vote, but he gets to pick the winner. that is not freedom. >> it was one of the defining

political speeches of the these midterms. likely part of the reason josh shapiro won, not only does he win, beating big lie supporter extreme candidate doug mastriano by 14 points, he broke the record for most votes for a governor in pennsylvania history. joining us now is pennsylvania governor elect josh shapiro. congratulations on the win. >> thank you. >> can we go back a minute though, to that closing message. i saw that speech and i saw president obama's speech. you brought the house down but you also did this extraordinary thing in a midterm election, you ran on freedom. >> yeah. look, i think you've had the other side. but my opponent and others like him across the country talk in a good game about freedom the and they love to like cloak themselves in the blanket of freedom and wear the american flag and what they were selling wasn't freedom.

they were taking away people's rights, restricting freedoms. and i'll be honest, i just got sick and tired of it. so, one day in erie, when i was about to speak to a group, i said i'm going to try to redefine the way freedom is perceived in our politics and also explaining what freedom looks like. giving people a opportunity for a quality education, a safe community to live in. and the opportunity for a job and their community that is going to help sustain their families and then protecting their right, whether it is the right to vote or make decisions over their own body. so that is trying to reclaim free zom and help people understand what was really at stake in this election. >> listen, i don't know if what happens in pennsylvania could happen everywhere. but i know from being a republican that if you take from them this idea that republicans really don't stand for freedom

at all, they are left with nothing. we know it is a lie and you know it is a lie but voters think that live free or die, that is the republican brand. what are your -- are you optimistic that you could take this concept, this frame, because it certainly holds. the right to have a gun means our kids can't go to school safely and women can't make decisions about their own body and do all their garbage on gap with extremist groups means we couldn't participate in our elections safely. it does apply to everything happening on the right and how would you advise people to take . >> yeah, you asked me if i'm optimistic. i sure am. i'm optimistic because the good people of pennsylvania had two distinctive choices on this notion of freedom, if you will, and by a resounding margin -- you mentioned this before -- i received more votes than any gubernatorial candidate in the

history of pennsylvania. they chose real freedom in this campaign. and they came together, republican, democrat, and independent, and endorsed this approach. and they want me to be someone who's going to protect their freedom and create real opportunity for them, for their children and for themselves. and that to me is what was on the ballot, and we received a significant number of votes, a record number of votes and now we have a mandate to lead with real freedom going forward. >> your opponent was one of the uglier avatars for trumpism. he ran an openly extremist and anti-semitic campaign. but i think what trumpism and what trump taught us is it's out there, and what people like trump and mastriano do is give it a permission structure. what in your view the best way to deradicalize those people so the doug mastrianos and trumps

don't sway anyone? >> confront it, and confront it head on, as we did with freedom. call out their bs. sorry if i'm not allowed to say that. and make sure you let people know what's really at stake. i think many politicians, particularly some in my party tend to back down in the face of a conversation about freedom and in the face of a conversation about democracy in this country. look, the things that should bind us all together are that we cherish our freedom. we'll depend our democracy, and we love this country. and we have to claim that. we have to stand up and speak out on that, and we have to confront the extremism and danger wherever we find it. i have long believed that one of the most important steps we need to take in order to address the extremism and deradicalize our politics, is to defeat those who are perpetuaing it. because really, the simple truth is the reason they act the way they do, these extremists is because they're profoundly weak

people. they're unmoored, unconnected to the three virtues. if you defeat them, you show them there's no pathway and opportunity to success politically for them, then you can begin to have a dialogue and get back to governing with some sensibility, get back to eliminating the extremes from our politics. but it's also important to note defeating them is the beginning of this process. we have to keep working on the perfecting our union, keep working at making sure that this extremism is eradicates from our politics. so to me, defeating this dangerous extremist was job one, and now i have to govern in a way that continues to bring people together and brings our politics back to some normality. >> your candidacy, and we covered it a lot here, your campaign message, governor whitmer's candidacy and message,

marrying abortion and the economy -- something you did as well -- wes moore's candidacy in maryland -- i mean, there are a lot of bright lights in the democratic party. how long the idea of a red wave seeped into the conventional wisdom to begin with? >> i don't know. i heard that a lot as i was out campaigning. i never felt that. but, you know, i was honestly just kind of like focused like a laser beam on my own race and not paying a whole lot of attention to what was happening in other states. what i found when i traveled -- whether i was in a rural or urban communities, folks basically wanted the same thing. they wanted someone who was going to defend their freedom, who would deliver when it came to national securitying in their schools and safer communitcommu growing the economy. they wanted someone with a powerful record of taking on the special interests. it was universal, no matter what

the terrain was. and of course that is what we were able to deliver, not just through think track record as a.g. but throughout my campaign and what i'll do as governor. i never felt a big red wave coming. i felt pennsylvanians around the notion of good schools, communities, and an economy that lifts all up, and real freedom. >> when we got news you were going to give your speech after the race was called, i said to my colleagues on the desk, it will be interesting to hear if doug mastriano called him. i suspected he hadn't, and he hadn't, but he did concede. it took naive days. do you think the authoritarian impulses of the ex president that seem to have transferred to people like doug mastriano, do you think that's -- or do you think that's out there and they had a bad night? >> i think it's still out there. and time will tell if that grip that he's had on people like my

former opponent or not is, you know, relaxing a bit. but what's clear is that it's always nonsense they were spewing. these conspiracy theories. it was never real. but they were doing it because they thought they could get some short-term political gain out of it. they thought they could get love from the former president they thought was valuable, and nothing can deny the fact that we had a free and fair and safe election in 2020 and again in 2022. and then my opponent got whooped in the process. and what we now really need to do is focus on continuing to eradicate this extremism in our politics and doing the hard work. this is the hard work. the hard work in governing of bringing people together. i've done that throughout my career. i've got a mandate to do that now as pennsylvania's next governor and that, if we do that effectively that will continue to erode that grip that the

former president still has on some politicians in the nation. >> and as he potentially -- i don't know if he left, but re-enters politics tonight, we'll see how republicans deal with that. congratulations on your big win. josh shapiro, thank you for spending time with us today. >> quick break for us. we'll be right back. or us. we'll be right back. do you want to expand on that? this is about the system, protecting abusers. this is all going to come out.

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