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we can sort of dispense with the notion that kevin is going to be speaker, then we can get to the important work. >> ah, yes, the republican party in chaos. fresh from their big midterm letdown, the knives are out for kevin mccarty and mitch mcconnell. and donald trump's ploy to try to avoid prosecution quickly announced he's a candidate for president, but that means nothing to prosecutors, right? >> and we're keeping a close eye on developments in poland following a reported explosion near its border with ukraine. unconfirmed news reports saying the blast was caused by a russian rocket. stay with us for any breaking developments on that story. we begin "the reidout" tonight with kevin mccarthy, the leader of the house republican caucus, and his nearly decade-long and rather desperate quest to become speaker of the house. as we speak, republicans are inches away from gaining a slim house majority, hard to call it a win. given that the party went into last week's election fully

drinking the kool-aid, the hyperpartisan polls, aggregators and conservative media fed them. earlier today, house republicans went to work electing their leadership team. mccarthy who first sought to be speaker in 2015 until he abruptly quit, faced an immediate challenge from one of the key plotters of the coup, andy biggs. mccarthy won the support of 188 members of his caucus, far short of the actual number needed to become speaker. so the real test comes in january when he will need 218 votes on the house floor to get the gavel. nominating andy biggs was a shot across the bow from the tea party freedom caucus. if mccarthy wants to be speaker, he'll have to get through them first. it's not all clear that he'll actually gets the votes he needs. it was a less than auspicious start for the republican party still trying to figure out what the hell happened and why their extremist candidates were rejected by so many americans

despite favorable gerrymandered odds. yesterday, moderate republican from nebraska don bacon told nbc news that if the republican conference cannot agree on electing mccarthy or any other republican as speaker, then he would be willing to work with democrats to elect a moderate republican for the job. marjorie taylor soon to be exmrs. greene, anything bought mccarthy stands, they don't like that idea, which is why they're supporting mccarthy. >> here's the issue. if we don't unify behind kevin mccarthy, we're opening up the door for the democrats to be able to recruit some of our republicans and they may only need one or two since we don't know what we will have in the majority, how many seats we'll have, and i will not allow that to happen. >> greene later told reporters that the real reason that she's backing kevin is because the next majority leader, steve

scalise, the one who said he was david duke without the baggage, he promised her investigations into nancy pelosi, and into the department of justice treatment of people who stormed the capitol on january 6th. of course. mccarthy's presence in the upper management of the house caucus has never been a profile in courage. outgoing congresswoman liz cheney who was his former ally and friend, only to be abandoned in his quest for power, warned the public months ago. >> he's been completely unfaithful to the constitution. demonstrated a total lack of understanding of the significance and the importance of the role of speaker, so i don't believe he should be speaker of the house. >> and while house republicans were in disarray, senate republicans -- who was in charge of helping republican candidates get elected but failed announced he will challenge mitch mcconnell for minority leader.

mcconnell welcomed the challenge and reminded reporters why republicans failed. >> we underperformed among independents and moderates because their impression of many of the people in our party and leadership roles is that they're involved in chaos, negativity, excessive attacks, and it frightened independent and moderate republican voters. >> the republican on republican cage matches come nearly 24 hours after arizona, home of barry goldwater and john mccain, said no thank you to the well groomed maga heiress, kari lake. her loss was the third of the four state-wide races for republicans and stand as a stubborn reminder that the mega maga party just ain't working, at least in arizona, which has reaffirmed its rejection of trump continuously. in a few hours, the leader of the faltering party, donald trump, is set to look that failure in the face and say,

please, sir, may i have some more? trump is expected to announce his third run for president from mar-a-lago where he stashed all those classified documents. earlier today, he was greeted by this banner, look at that. which reads, you lost again, donald. desantis, 2024. joining me now is congressman ro khanna of california, and charlie sykes, editor at large for the bulwark. it's so bad that liz cheney is tweeting redrum tweets, renuking kari lake for losing. she's trolling and she didn't even win her re-election. that's how confident she feels that the maga movement is battered. what is this speakership going to look like? is there a possibility there could be a deal cut, to your knowledge, between democrats who will have a lot of seats, they will be close to 218 themselves, 217, we don't know what they're going to have. is there a possibility that democrats would cut a deal with some republicans to elect someone else speaker instead of

kevin mccarthy? >> i think everything is on the table. you know, i'm part of a group meeting with republicans right now to see if we can actually return power to rank and file members. they don't want a strong speaker if it's a republican, so i think everything is in flux, and you know, the great thing, joy, is that more people are talking about whether kevin mccarthy is going to be speaker or what's happening in the senate than what donald trump is doing. i think finally, he's lost the attention of people. >> well, maybe not of the base. you know, charlie, i don't think there's any risk that there will be a strong speaker if kevin mccarthy is anywhere near this conversation. he's not a strong human being. let me play a sound bite. just for those of you who have forgotten who kevin is, and here he is. >> i've had it with this guy. what he's done is unacceptable. nobody can defend that, and nobody should defend it.

>> the president bears responsibility for wednesday's attack on congress by mob rioters. he should have immediately denounced the mob when he saw what was unfolding. >> and then in a fund-raiser in 2022, he called trump a secret weapon, the secret weapon of republicans. this guy doesn't even know where he stands, he has no spine. he's not going to be a strong speaker even if he gets the gavel. charlie, your thoughts. >> one of his superpowers of course is his willingness to self-humiliate, and it has been humiliation all the way down. this of course is the irony, that kevin mccarthy has been willing to give up so much of his character and his power in order to get that gavel, but the gavel is just going to be more humiliation for him, because this nut case caucus is going to insist on gelding him if he's going to get the votes. even if he gets the votes, he's not going to have an effective governing majority, and all of this escalated awfully quickly, didn't it?

the all-out republican civil war. you know, republican against republican in the senate, knives out in the house of representatives. matt gaetz taking shots at marjorie taylor greene. and then of course, in the middle of all of this, donald trump figures, this is the ideal time to remind everybody that i am the symbol and agent of all this dysfunction and failure. so this has really been quite a week for republicans, which in the past have enjoyed watching democrats in disarray, and they're saying, really, hold my beer. you haven't seen gng like this in a long time. >> the media doesn't know what to do, because democrats in disarray is like a media meme, they take it out of a box and roll it out. congressman, i wonder you have any insight into what this house will be like, because marjorie taylor, i don't know if she still uses greene. she is vowing that what they want to do with their majority,

what they want to do is investigate hunter biden. they want to impeach joe biden. they'll make up a reason. they want to go after, you know, they want to do theater. right? they want to impeach mayorkas because i don't know what they think he did wrong. is that what you anticipate the house is going to be like? it doesn't sound like they want to deal with inflation and crime which they claimed were the reasons they were running. >> that's all they talk about. in the committee hearings all they can talk about is hunter biden, investigating the president. i think it's going to backfire. for all those stories about democrats in disarray, look, this is a democratic congress that passed the infrastructure bill, that brought semi-conductor manufacturing back, that passed the largest climate investment, that passed the american rescue plan, that cut child poverty in half. it's one of the most successful presidential terms in modern history with some of the slimmest majorities. and i think it's actually going to be seen as one of the most

unified congresses, and now when the other side may have a majority, they don't even have one plan, let alone the four major things we passed. >> they do have plans in the senate. i want to talk about this because one of the things i think donald trump exposed is that the elite, the financial elite of the republican party, had no connection to the base. the base wanted what donald trump was selling. and the financial elite want massive tax cuts for the rich. the financial elite are now back in a big way, saying they're going to fight mitch mcconnell. you have rick scott who wants to challenge mcconnell, who was a sycophant to trump, for leadership. but rick scott is not only the guy who was in charge of getting republicans re-elected, but his plan is to take social security, medicare, and medicaid and put them on five-year tracks to be dismantled. this is a guy who presided over $1.7 trillion medicare and tricare fraud and got elected

governor of florida. this guy has presided over crookedness. he wants to make old people poor. and so he -- this is the financial elite saying we don't like the trump party, give us back the party that's going to throw grandma over the side of the bridge. >> well, rick scott disagreed with mitch mcconnell. mcconnell said let's not stand for anything, let's be a blank slate like we were in 2020. rick scott came up with a lot of proposals and ideas which were absolutely toxic. but this is an interesting point. here's a republican party that has no agenda whatsoever. they could be engaging in introspection about the extremism, about the effect of dobbs. they could be talking about what their plans are about inflation, various other policy issues, but they can't do that because they know that donald trump and the base are frankly not interested in any of that. it's beside the point. this is the problem becoming the

cult of personality. so you have a party that actually right now doesn't stand for anything other than being in opposition, so at a moment like this, all they can do is turn on one another. you'll notice with all of the chaos we have been discussing, they're not debating issues, they're not debating principles or ideas, are they? it's all about power, all about ego, and all about loyalty to the orange one. >> because they don't care about these issues. i have said it before. i'll say it again. and the financial elite want to replace what they see as the rabble of the party who like trump with more people who will give them more tax cuts for the rich. let's go back to you, congressman, because there is another big news issue, and i know you have the house arms services committee. what are your thoughts about what's happening in poland right now? there was a missile strike. we're still unclear on all of the details, but what are house members saying about it? >> we know there was some sort of explosion in poland and there's a suspicion there might

be something to do with russia. >> it's deeply concerning. obviously, nato is -- poland is a nato ally. the first thing we need to do is find out was this a deliberate strike, was it accidental, did it come from the russians? but i want to just commend president biden and secretary blinken as well as jake sullivan, they have stood firmly with ukraine, but at the same time, they are in touch with the russian counterparts to make sure that there is no escalation, and they have been very responsible in standing with ukraine but being cautious of not having accidental nuclear warfare. i believe biden is handling this responsibly. >> are you concerned if the house puts -- we don't know who would be in charge of the equivalent of the committee you're on. are you concerned somebody who is like a maga pirn, like a marjorie taylor, might get that gavel? is that the kind of deals you're seeing being made?

>> i'm concerned. i am concerned that the house is just going to turn into launching personal grievances against this president and questioning his integrity. i have said to my republican colleagues, when trump was in office, i questioned jared kushner because the president decided to put him in charge of middle east peace. i never went after a single person in trump's family who wasn't actually in the white house. hunter biden has nothing to do with policy. there is a cruelty, there is a cruelty to this republican party, where they're going after people's families. >> yeah, it's what they do. it's the theater they're trying to create. congressman ro khanna, thank you, charlie sykes. >> next, what makes trump think he can escape prosecution for taking classified documents? well, maybe the fact that he has yet to be prosecuted for taking classified documents. his efforts to keep that lucky streak going, when "the reidout" continues after this. kevin, where are you?!

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system. she printed out a single classified nsa report, and sent it to the news outlet, the intercept. winter was quickly arrested, due in large part to the carelessness of some of the journalists at the intercept who failed to protect her identity as their source. we could have a lawn conversation about why the folks who protected edward snowden didn't protect her, but she was sentenced to five years in prison. she asserted she was trying to defend the united states against russia, but it didn't matter. even with noble intentions, taking classified documents is against the law, and that brings me back to the twice impeached former president. among the many investigations trump is facing is a doj probe regarding the thousands of documents trump took to mar-a-lago when he left the white house. including hundreds that were marked classified. some of those classified tuments were so sensitive that only a small number of people inside

the u.s. government would be authorized to even see them. to this day, trump still has not offered any explanation for why he would need to have any of these materials in his possession. except for false claims that they are his. again, his reasons don't even matter. it's still a crime. so if reality winner received more than five years in prison for taking one classified document, why is trump still free as a bird after taking hundreds of them? that he not only squirreled away at his florida golf resort, but actively prevented from being returned to the national archives and the doj following their multiple requests. trump's impending announcement tonight may be an attempt to extend his impunity by getting the justice department to back off by claiming that any investigation at this point would be considered a partisan attack against a political rival to the sitting president. well, some legal experts are pushing back. andrew weissmann, the former fbi general counsel and a senior member of special counsel robert

mueller's investigative team tweeted, time's up, doj. the rule of law requires trump to be held to account. as others have been for like crimes. it's been over 14 weeks since the mar-a-lago search, and many months since the doj investigation began. timely action is needed. andrew weissmann joins me now. i'm going to let you expand on that point, sir, because i cannot get it to work in my brain, how reality winner was arrested in days and this man is still walking around and free to make an announcement he's running for president. >> joy, that is exactly the right thing to be focused on, because i also think that is exactly what the attorney general will be focused on, which is making sure that donald trump, whether he says he's running for president or not, is irrelevant. that he be treated exactly the same as other people who are either charged or not charged by the department. in other words, you have got

somebody who was a judge for many years who has now head of the department of justice and he's going to be looking at cases like reality winner, and frankly, there are scores of others, of people who did things that were far less egregious than donald trump, who were charged. and that is what's going to be guiding merrick garland. it's going to be making sure that donald trump is treated exactly the same. and my reading of those cases is, it's impossible to read those cases and not come to the conclusion that donald trump in order to have a rule of law, should be charged. and by the way, the fact that he runs for office, that's irrelevant. he may want to do that so he can have a public relations point of saying, oh, this is why they did it. but we all know that's not the case. we all know he was under investigation for many, many, many months when he wasn't running for office. so he's going to do that to sort of have the upper hand on the

public relations front, but i don't think that's going to in any way stop merrick garland. >> and right, and first of all, just, we're going to do a quick constitution 101. what is the legal difference in status between reality winner at a citizen and donald trump as a former president? what's the difference between the two of them legally speaking? just in terms of how they're treated by the law. >> zero. >> none, thank you. >> zero, exactly. >> so right. donald trump and me, donald trump and you. we're all the same. he's just a citizen. so i want to go through this. some people are saying, well, there's a sense, we don't want to go after prominent people. we know rod blagojevich was the governor of illinois and went to jail. we know you can put former officials in jail. but i want to go on to people who say he's prominent. david petraeus, he is an army general, he is a war hero. he served his country honorably, former cia director. he was sentenced to two years of

probation and $100,000 fine, and what he did was he took a small amount of classified material and shared it with his girlfriend who was writing a book. samuel berger, he was a national security adviser to a whole president, to president clinton. he went into a scif, he took one of them out. he was sentenced to a $50,000 fine, 100 hours of community service because he reached a plea deal, but he was charged with a crime. even if it was that minimal level, but what trump did is magnified by thousands to what those two did, because he took hundreds of classified documents and thousands of documents. how would the doj look at it when they do it by degree, if you look at petraeus and you look at trump? >> well, i think there are all sorts of factors you would look at. on the plus side for donald trump is if the government doesn't have evidence that he actually disseminated these, in

other words, reality winner gave the documents to somebody. that is something that is, you know, an aggravating factor for her. on the other hand, sandy berger took few documents, he did not disseminate them. that's far less egregious than donald trump, and donald trump has a complete history of obstructing the very investigation. he has a series of aggravating factors, as well as the fact he has prominence in many ways is not a mitigating factor. he should be held to, in my view, a higher standard. when you are a role model and you're somebody who is the head of law enforcement of this country, the leader of the free world, you should be like caesar's wife, completely above reproach. i think that sort of analysis, what we're engaging in now and what you have been focusing on

is exactly what the department is going to be doing. the fact that somebody is prominent does not mean they don't get prosecuted. it's not a mitigating factor, as they said, i think that's an aggravating factor. if he runs for office, he runs for office, but he's still a civilian like the rest of us, as you said. and the rule of law means that we are all treated equally. and i really am confident that merrick garland is going to do that. >> yeah, because there's no other choice. because otherwise, we have a king. because there is no other figure who is above the law except a king. and he definitely is not our king. andrew weissmann, thank you. we always appreciate your brilliance on the show. >> still ahead, it's complicated how georgia's new voting laws are messing with the upcoming senate run-off. if you think that this isn't totally intentional, think again. senator jon ossoff joins me next. kevin, where are you?! kevin?!?!?.... hey, what's going on? i'm right here! i was busy cashbacking for the holidays with chase freedom unlimited.

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we should be striving to give the people of georgia fair access to the ballot box. we just saw an election in november where the people of georgia made it clear that they want to use saturday voting. hundreds of thousands of voters, georgia voter. voted on saturday. they have demonstrated what they want. and there's nothing in the law as it is currently written to prevent it. >> as the georgia senate runoff campaign kicks into high gear,

raphael warnock announced he's filing a lawsuit to allow georgians to vote early on the saturday after thanksgiving. because of a law republicans passed in 2016, it is currently illegal in georgia to have early voting on any day that immediately follows a state holiday. and friday, november 25th, is technically a state holiday. celebrating the birthday of none other than confederate general and literal traitor robert e. lee. that's even more essential after the republicans jim crow 2.0 law passed last year, cutting the state's runoff calendar in half. it used to be nine weeks, now it's down to four. joining me is democratic senator jon ossoff of georgia. i want to ask you about that. what is the level of concern among georgia democrats that cutting off that final saturday of voting, it's hard enough to get people to come out for a special election. how concerned are you and fellow georgia state democrats that it's going to hurt the turnout of people who want to re-elect warnock? >> good evening and thank you

for having me. and we are determined to insure that every eligible voter in georgia has the opportunity to participate in this process. you just heard from senator reverend warnock there, hundreds of thousands of georgians availed themselves of saturday early voting during the general election. we're encouraging every georgian to make a plan now, to vote in this runoff. remember, the election law that georgia republicans passed last year in some ways had the most significant impact on runoff election administration. with a shorter early vote period, for example. we're encouraging all georgians to make a plan to vote now. and i sincerely hope the outcome of this court process is that georgians can take advantage of a chance to vote on saturdays. >> you know, your election, and senator warnock's election in 2021, it was to me proof that every vote counts and who

represents you matters. you just passed, and i want to congratulate you on a bipartisan bill you authored to investigate unsolved lynchings and civil rights cold cases. it's headed to the president's desk. it's arguably, nothing like that would have passed with your predecessors. i think about some of the opportunities that are there if there is that 51st vote. that's things like codifying abortion rights. abortion is a big deal. a george just overturned your state's six-week abortion ban. protecting voting rights, police reform, gun reform legislation. none of that has any chance, even maybe in a 50/50 senate. so are you -- is that the case that's being made to georgia voters, that that 51st seat might be the difference between getting those things and not? >> well, look, let me add, in addition to the civil rights cold case legislation that you just talked about, which passed the house yesterday and is now on its way to the president's desk, without our victories in

georgia, in january of 2021, there would be no justice ketanji brown jackson, there would be no bipartisan infrastructure law. we would not have done more to strengthen veterans health care than any congress in decades. nor would we have been able to engage in the kind of vigorous oversight and investigation of human rights abuses, of corruption, and misconduct in the federal government, for example that i have led as chair of the permanent subcommittee on investigations. today we held the hearing the result of an 18-month bipartisan investigation that exposed the truth about what's been happening to detainees held by the department of homeland security who were subjected to unnecessary, invasive, and often nonconsensual gynecological surgical procedures. serious abuses of constitutional and human rights. it's not just the legislative capacity. it's also our ability to investigate abuse, corruption, and misconduct. >> and by the way, we have a sound bite on that.

let me play a little bit of that. this is one of the former detainees speaking about her experiences with i.c.e. >> the nurse told me i was going to get a pap smear. when the day came, they handcuffed me, they put a chain around my waist. all the way down to my ankles. when the doctor comes in, he doesn't acknowledge me. he doesn't say a word. he just sits in front of me and starts prepping for the procedure, which he does not explain. then, he just says, open your legs. and continues with, it's going to be cold. and inserts a white tube inside of me. he wiggles it around roughly. >> it's horrifying, and this investigation is chilling. and just to make it very clear, as you said, this investigation would not have happened had your

two predecessors, yours and raphael warnock's predecessors been in the united states senate, because republicans would have controlled the committees, no? >> oversight really matters, joy. and as you know, i ran for the senate on a pledge to investigate abuse, corruption, misconduct, and violations of human right. and that is what i have done as the chair of the permanent subcommittee on investigations. i have to say, and folks who just saw that testimony from karina today, and there are dozens of women who went through what she went through, dozens of women who were subjected to unnecessary, invasive, dangerous surgical procedures while in the custody of the u.s. government. that's exactly the kind of oversight that the u.s. congress should be undertaking. it took 18 months of bipartisan work to get there. and yes, without those victories in georgia, we would not be in a

position to conduct this oversight. and i'm going to continue conducting this oversight so long as i chair this subcommittee. >> do you believe, quickly, that herschel walker would have interest in participating in these investigations if he were the senator, the other senator from georgia, rather than senator warnock? >> i have no idea except to say this. the contrast in quality, in competence, in preparedness between senator warnock and his opponent is the most dramatic i have ever seen in electoral politics. senator warnock is an asset to this nation. he has won universal respect across the aisle in the senate. he's gotten a lot done for georgia. forging bipartisan relationships to do it. we cannot lose him. we will not lose him, that's why we're encouraing georgians to make a plan to vote. >> senator jon ossoff, thank you very much. really appreciate you being here and the work you have done on

those investigations. up next, what modern americans can learn from president lincoln's struggle to preserve and protect american freedom and democracy. i'll talk to two pulitzer prize winners, jon meacham and nikole hannah-jones, when we come back after this break. kevin?!?!?.... hey, what's going on? i'm right here! i was busy cashbacking for the holidays with chase freedom unlimited. you know i can't believe you lost another kevin. it's a holiday tradition! earn big time with chase freedom unlimited. ♪ ♪

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kevin, where are you?! kevin?!?!?.... hey, what's going on? i'm right here! i was busy cashbacking for the holidays with chase freedom unlimited. you know i can't believe you lost another kevin. it's a holiday tradition! earn big time with chase freedom unlimited. ♪ ♪ . it often feels like we have reached the apex of division here in america. but no event fractured and then

transformed this nation more than the civil war. abraham lincoln presided during that period, urging unity. he felt it was his sacred duty as president to preserve the union at all costs. even if it meant going to war. in 1863, lincoln issued the emancipation proclamation that declared enslaved people within the rebelling states forever free. lincoln's assassination kept him from overseeing reconstruction, but still, after all this time, nearly 160 years, the question over how to preserve unity remains. with the battle lines of the civil war still haunting america. and placing our democracy under immediate and seemingly continual threat. joining me now are two pulitzer prize winners, nikole hannah-jones, staff writer for "the new york times" magazine and creator of the 1619 project, and jon meacham, historian and author of the new book, and then there was light. abraham lincoln and the american struggle. i would normally do ladies

first, but i want to start with you, jon meacham, because you wrote the book about lincoln. i'm fascinating with lincoln and also with hannibal hamlet, i think we have talked about this before. i feel like the quest for unity went awry with the discarding of hamlin in favor of andrew johnson. just unpack for me the job that lincoln did in trying to preserve the union and the good and the bad and the mistakes you think he might have made. >> sure. not here to celebrate abraham lincoln for moral perfection because he was morally imperfect. but he did, i think, help us create a more perfect union. he was driven by two things. really from childhood. he was an anti-slavery politician. which was not the same as being an egalitarian. every abolitionist was anti-slavery, but not every anti-slavery politician was an abolitionist, and egalitarians were fewer and farther between

in those years. he was driven by containing slavery, because he saw that the white south meant what it said when it talked about adding cuba, adding nicaragua, adding parts of mexico, creating what was called the golden circle and havana was going to be the center of the golden circle. so he was very much focused on containing slavery, and as they put it in that era, putting out a path to ultimate extinction. that was easy for a white politician to be for because they weren't enslaved. he was driven by that. he was also driven by a belief in democracy. and the capacity, the whole message of the gettysburg address, that in fact, democracy was the best form of government to try to achieve justice. and my sense is that for all of our imperfections, lincoln was remarkably skilled at both finding a moral core, trying to

live up to it, and pushing us a little bit farther toward the right. here's the thing about hannibal hamlin. environment of the united states, 1861 to '65. a republican from maine. i think one of the trageies of american history is we didn't have a president hannibal hamlin. he had been pushed off the ticket in 1864 by a nervous republican party that wanted a white democrat, white racist from my state, andrew johnson, who went on the ticket. it was one of the most disastrous decisions in american history. in a country that has made a lot of disastrous decisions. but i think what lincoln teaches us, what lincoln teaches us is that you have to have some moral commitment. you cannot send someone to the pinnacle of power, and i'll let you connect these dots, who has no moral conviction whatever. and lincoln wanted slavery to end, and he wanted democracy to thrive. >> and to that point, i think,

nikole hannah-jones, you made this point in the 1619 project terrifies the right. i think the reason it terrifies them and you terrify them is because you make this point. slavery becomes the pinnacle of the moral universe of the united states. it continues to be the story, in 1877, it was the compromises made against former enslaved people that puts us on the path to the mess we're in right now. how do we get in sort of, you had a form for journalists at howard university, a democracy summit for journalists. how can we on the journalism side get at that core race problem in a way that people will accept the message as not some sort of a threat to them, but as the>> well, one, i thinks have to know the history, which is part of the problem. too many journalists who are writing about the political landscape today have not studied the history of how we got here, so they can't relate to what we are seeing about the

compromise of 1877. they can't relay the fact that we did not really have democracy in this country until 1965 and the passage of the voting rights act, and that these ideas of democracy were never intended to include black people or other people of color. democracy has always been contested. i think the first thing they had to do is learn the history so that they can report that history to the public. what i found through the 16 19 project is, yes, there is a segment of the american population that just does not care. they don't want to know the history, it will be impervious to the history, but i don't think that is most americans. i think most americans have learned a poor history of the united states. a history of the united states does not explain the country that they live in every day, and that if you can treat them as if they have intelligence, if you can build in that history and understanding in connection to the president, many americans want to know. because it is perplexing, based on the history we have been taught to see how we had an

insurrection on january six. how we have a major political party that no longer believes in democracy, or democracy means that multiracial people can decide who our leaders can be. but if we learn a more accurate history, then the country we have to make sense, and then we know, what can we do to save our democracy. >> amen, i could not offset it better than myself's. i will hold on to these two billion people. we won't let them yet. nicole and john are sticking around the share their thoughts on how president biden's efforts to connect this deeply divided country stacks up against lincoln's. interesting question, we'll be back in a second. back in a second hello cashback! hello, kevin hart! earn big time with chase freedom unlimited with no annual fee. how do you cashback? chase. make more of what's yours. were you scared of him? we all were. this is bigger than weinstein. this is about the system protecting abusers. i was silenced. i want my voice back.

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g20 about the situation in poland. >> or not. we will wait for that video to come back. let me bring back in nikole hannah-jones and john meacham. okay, they're here. let me quickly while we're waiting for biden to speak, let me read this quote from lincoln, your book, jon meacham. for lincoln, a world in which power was all, in which a singular will trumped all, was not moral but a moral, not democratic autocratic, not just but in unjust. >> i think that there has to be a moral commitment to something larger than yourself, and andy united states, our best, human nature, it's best, it's been to a pursuit of justice. a realization of a promise that way americans made, which we did not live up to, which is

that we are all created equal. lincoln elevated the declaration of independence, one of a singular contributions, when he said four score and seven years ago, he was going back to the declaration, not the constitution. he was going back to the mistaken, not to the compromise manual to make concessions to the slave power. that commitment was essential. >> let me express my intense jealousy that i was not at your democracy's on it. ta-nehisi coates -- a few people there. i covered my presence at that sometime, to listen to all those folks speak. i want you to have the last word on this, nicole, because there is a fundamental question about whether the idea of multi racial democracy could work. nobody pulled it off right. russell has a lot of the similar problems, south africa does. it's difficult to do, because humans are tribal. as a journalist and historian, do you think is doable the way

that we are now? >> it's a difficult question, but certainly, it is possible because while human beings are tribal, what separates us are things that we create in our head. there is no natural separation between human beings, and i think if we truly dedicate ourselves to democracy, if we believe as johnson and our decoration set all men and women are critical, then of course we can. it is more challenging, right? multi racial democracy is hard, but it's certainly worth it, and what i write about in the 16 19 project is black americans have believed that multi racial democracy is possible and have been the most democratizing force in the country. if we look to those who are on the bottom, who could have a big vision of what democracy, in a clue sufficient of what democracy could be, then it is

possible, but it will never be easy, and it will always be contested. i think quickly, democracy is an idea, but it is not self reinforcing, it's not enforcing. democracy is something we all had to work on every single day. luckily, a majority of americans at this point still think it's worth working toward. >> a man. if you want to look to a true belief in democracy, look to the former enslaved who immediately when they got the franchise leaned into the idea of democracy and holy, 100% thoroughly believed it. they believed in a, and they were not allowed to keep it. it's the if you can keep it, that's the big deal. nikole hannah-jones, jon meacham, brilliant. that is tonight's read out. chrissy starts now. y starts now >> tonight on all in -- >> if we don't unify behind kevin mccarthy, we're opening up thefo