dominates the news cycle, interesting to watch how the president responds. >> yeah. i don't think they actually were too upset with that split screen. biden on the international stage dealing with weighty issues including a missile site and trump at his ritzy mar-a-lago club. not the worst. appreciate it, tyler. thank you all for getting up "way too early" on this wednesday morning. "morning joe" starts right about -- now. the former president would have made if he could take a damn hint. >> we have a very important announcement to make tonight. >> i want you to know that. >> i'm running. >> away forever. >> and i'm never going to come back! >> make the country -- >> will immediately be forgotten. >> nobody will come to my funeral. >> i'll tell my son i have been. >> abducted by spaceforce!

>> always been a no good, rotten, disgusting. >> em embarrassment to our great country. >> oh in conclusion. >> bye-bye. >> bing-bong. >> and god bless the united states. >> well, that was -- not the message that we got from the former president last night. turns out -- >> well, it's a message, though. >> hmm. >> a lot of republicans would have loved -- >> wished for. >> what he did last night. a message the "wall street journal" editorial page would have loved for him to give last night. >> yes. >> it's a message that national review would have loved to give him last night. >> anybody who wants to win, a republican election, they would like th -- >> if you're a republican, didn't like the losing streak you don't want him out there anymore. >> stop the damage. got to contain it. >> i do have to wonder, again, we never thought it would be a red wave but i do wonder how

much damage was done by donald trump putting himself back out there the last week. everybody thought -- remember john heilemann, tuesday. >> i believe. >> show discipline over this last stretch by not going out, and then he came out at the very end. not only that, two nights in a row, or two speeches in a row he made fun of political violence. he mocked nancy pelosi. he mocked nancy pelosi's husband. getting his head smashed in, and an act of political violence, and, again, i go back to baseball cranks saying that, you know, when -- when we're talking about trump, democrats win. when we're talking about biden, republicans win. and trump always shifts it to him and now he's done it yet again for herschel walker a guy he selected. a guy he's scamming off of, making money off of, and now a guy, he stepped in when

republicans begged him not to, and now it's probably going to, well, probably going elect warnock. >> well, we'll see. turns out he's not yet done inflicting damage on the republican party. some of his family members are done. we'll have his announcement about 2024 and reaction from both sides coming up in just a bit. plus, kevin mccarthy beats back a challenge to win the nomination for, from house republicans for speaker. but will he get the votes to actually win the gavel? >> he had an impressive rally inside the conference. unfortunately for him the difference is so narrow between democrats and republicans, whatever that number ends up being, thatyou listen to a lot of house members, hard for him to get the gavel. to get to 218. >> meanwhile, senate republicans are set to hold their leadership vote today and rick scott plans to challenge mitch mcconnell for

the top spot. the latest from capitol hill. a lot of drama in the republican party. >> ugly there. mcconnell's aides, rick scott's aides going at each other. >> drama! >> a lot of drama. a lot of tough talk there. >> yeah, and i'm-of-out in the open, too. senator mcconnell is attacking rick scott in public. points for brazenness for rick scott. a couple days after improbablily losing the united states senate against the trends of inflation, against the trends of history, against everything they had going their way to lose the senate somehow, perhaps getting to 51 for democrats and then stepping forward and saying, i'm the guy who needs to run the united states senate. mitch mcconnell was having none of it yesterday. >> none of it yesterday, and after, mika, you had republicans saying, oh, rick scott's plan doesn't cut medicare, doesn't cut social security, doesn't raise taxes on half of america. you now have mitch mcconnell and his team saying, that's exactly

what it does and backs the direction you want to go with slashing medicare, slashing social security. and then support rick scott. >> new reporting this morning on the russian-made missile that crossed over into poland killing two people in nato territory. nothing more serious than that. nato members are holding an emergency meeting right now. we'll be following that. we have a lot of big guests pertaining to that story and the war in ukraine overall as well. along with joe, willie and me we have attorney and contributing column ummist for the "washington post" george conway. washington bureau chief for usa today, susan page is with us. >> and i like sam stein. very proud of that. >> she's very proud of him.

we begin with the republican party in disarray on capitol hill. the "washington post" headline put it this way -- "republican in-fighting royals congress as midterm fallout continues." in the senate majority leader mitch mcconnell during a closed door meeting with gop lawmakers yesterday senator rick scott announced plans to run against mcconnell. he later released a letter writing in part this -- voters are begging us to tell them what we will do when we are in charge. yes. they have been for quite some time, the problem is, you told them -- >> yeah. >> what you wanted them to do. >> rick had a plan. >> yeah. >> and they rejected it. >> rick blames it on others. unfortunately we have continued to elect leadership who refuses to do that, and elicits attacks on anyone that does. that is clearly not working and it's time for bold change. i'll tell you, what happened, and the reason why this meltdown

is happening in the republican party is nothing like these midterms has ever happened before. when you really look at numbers and look at what, what went down versus what was expected and what historically happens during midterms like this. >> right. >> wow. they got routed. >> and the rick scott had a disastrous plan. republicans were horrified by it. the fact he also had one of the most disastrous midterms for a guy in charge. timing is ridiculous. and actually, mitch mcconnell yesterday was asked about scott's challenge, and he actually weighed in, and talked about why republicans did so poorly in the midterms this time. >> -- from senator scott and others, do you agree, that your decision not to have an agenda to run on opened up candidates attacks that they didn't stand for anything.

what is your response to the person that you are partially responsible for? >> every one of our candidates knew what they were for, expressed it quite clearly. it's pretty obvious all of you have been writing about it what happened. we underperformed among independents and moderates. because their impression of the people in our party in leadership roles is that they're involved in chaos, negativity, excessive attacks, and it frightened independent and moderate republican voters, and we saw that, which is why you all recall i never predicted a red wave. we never saw that in any of our polling in the states that we were counting on to win. there was no wave. we had national issue set that was favorable, but as a result of our own perception many of them had that we were not

dealing with issues in a responsible way, and that we were spending too much time on negativity and -- attacks and chaos, they were frightened, and so they pulled back. we, in two states, for example -- excuse me -- in two states for example, just crushed by independent voters. arizona and new hampshire. so we learned some lessons about this, and i think the lesson's pretty clear. senate races are different. candidate quality, you recall i said in august, is important, and in most of our states we've met that test. and few of them we did not. >> willie, very positive light mitch mcconnell said we learned a lot of lessons mr. mitch mcconnell learned the lessons as they were unfolding and kept trying to warn republicans. in august talked candidate

quality. everybody freaked out melted down. he saw this coming, but i wrote down some of the words. i thought this was really fascinating coming from leader of a party that basically is echoing what everybody out there has been saying. he said it's obvious that we frightened independent and moderate voters. he talked about the republican party's chaos, which we talked about. negativity, which we talked about, and excessive personal attacks. issues were favorable to republicans but our own irresponsible, negatnegativity, attacks and chaos led us to be crushed by independent voters and moderates. >> yeah. republicans had to work hard not to win the senate, and they did. >> yeah. >> i mean, everything was going in their favor and they somehow did it. you hear from mcconnell's office. went further yesterday saying if you like republicans losing senate campaigns saddling the party with tax increases and

medicare cuts you're going to love rick scott's campaigning for leader. >> great. >> from mitch mcconnell's office talking about his fellow republican rick scott. so sam stein, it raises the question of a heated meeting yesterday. senate republicans, about 20 senators or so got up and spoke. topic was, what on earth happened in these elections? so the question for you is, as somebody who cover this closely, is there a chance mitch mcconnell is unseated? does rick scott have a chance at this? >> no, he does not. it's remarkable he's doing it. brazen is the word you used. that's probably the right word in this case, if you run the senate re-election campaign arm and lose and decide you need a promotion. pretty brazen. been a while since we've seen so much open animus between two members but these men genuinely do not like each other and are having at it.

i honestly find the mcconnell position the most fascinating here. it's clear he wants to steer the party in a different direction than trump. right? he was involved in some of the most important bipartisan achievements for biden you infrastructure, guns. going to probable be involved in reform with biden. move the appeared in a different direction. same time the most important shot to rid the appear of trump right after january 6th when he could have pushed that impeachment proceeding through before congress left and he did not take it. i'm wondering if he looks back at all with some regret thinking he had a chance to maybe rid the party of trump, which obviously was the anchor on the party's neck in this midterm elections. he didn't take it. now wants to do it again, but saying all of this stuff, challenging rick scott as trump is re-emerging on the political landscape, third run at the

presidency. fascinating position mcconnell finds himself in. >> mcconnell counts votes, what he does. blistering speech against donald trump, but fascinating about rick scott's run, wasn't mentioned. here you have a guy, again, just led a disastrous, disastrous midterm election for the republican senate. probably the worst in recent history. but also an election denier. he voted to not certify election results on january the 6th. >> wow. >> after the riots. so you've got an election denier, a guy that mcconnell's own office says is pushing for tax increases on half of the american people, and for medicare cuts, and he chooses this time as an election denier, when, again, all election deniers lost. to run for office, run for this

leadership office really doesn't make any sense. >> a guy, george conway, wick scott, stood behind all of those candidates, many cases standing behind herschel walker, yes, this is our candidate, and losing the senate. out party, 8% inflation and a president with 40% approval ratings. what do you mach of this intraparty fight right now? >> there's a vacuum in the republican party and it's a party that has not functioned as a real political party for quite some time. it's much more of a personality cult. it's a party that didn't have, for example, a platform in 2020. and so now you're -- the only thing holding it together was loyalty to trump and fear of trump, and in fact that trump could destroy any number of politicians who stood against him, because of his popularity with the base. now he doesn't have that power

anymore. i don't think so, at least, and now you're seeing the fisures and cracks as the mainstream people in the party who we saw how trump was bad all along kept their mouths shut. now trying to gain some semblance of control. >> susan, not just in the senate. it's ober in the house. minority house leader kevin mccarthy, his path to speaker much more difficult than a week a week and a half ago. elections more than 30 conference members voted against mccarthy for the job. only had to win majority of support to become nominee for speaker and got that done, but will need 218 votes in january to actually win that role. republicans are projected to have an extremely slim majority in the lower chamber, meaning that january vote from mccarthy is far from certain. freedom caucus member matt gaetz suggested the same group of conserve fivs who blocked mccarthy from speakership in 2015 would do that again. he said this, "kevin mccarthy

couldn't get 218 votes or 200 votes or 190 votes today. so believe kevin mccarthy will become speaker get votes in the next six weeks he couldn't get in the last six years." 220 seats in the house, got to get everybody. got to appeal to the freedom caucus, got to appeal to the moderates, give everybody a little something. can he get there? >> he'll need nancy pelosi-like skills. it's a situation not unsimilar to the one she faced in 2018 when there was eagerness amongst some of the democratic caucus to let somebody else. she put a coalition together in the way she's been a masterful legislator for decades, but this is harder. because his party is very divided. he now has not only, what, 30 or so members of this very combative freedom caucus, he has moderate member whose won districts concerned about

looking too extreme for their own re-election. so i think he's still most likely next speaker, but i don't, do not think it's guaranteed until it's done. >> and congressman around biggs of the freedom caulk us announced he's going to make a run as well. you've been in these negotiations and discussions, been in these fights. how does this play out? >> yeah. what are kevin mth mccarthy's opposites? >> not a lot of. >> options. assumed if you won in the caucus that you were going to be the speaker. because everybody goes out and blindly follows the line. in 1998, there were about six of us that said, wasn't going to happen. we -- we actually -- i did something i have not done in a long time. actually read the rules of the house of representatives and i thaw there was something called motion to vacate the chair and went to the guys, listen, we're going to get rolled in conference every time, but if we really think we need to get newt

gingrich out of here, just don't vote for him when it goes to the full chamber and anytime do a motion to vacate the chair, if he doesn't get 218 votes and wouldn't do that, because he had majority i think of 4 at the time. six voted against gingrich he would neveren speaker. i remember his top aide yelling at me, going, well, you all don't have anybody that will get 218 votes, and we're like -- of course we don't. we don't care. we just know that newt won't ever get 218 votes! and so, at that point, that's when gingrich left. i think he called us -- well, called us a lot of really bad names. i forget what he called us. >> let's move forward. >> moving forward? it's -- jihadists i think he called us. >> ah! no. >> that sort of changed things where now you have to get 2 --

have to get 218 members of your party to support you. kevin mccarthy does not have that. you look at what -- again, depending -- if it's a five-vote lead, you need five people to say i'm never ever going to vote for kevin mccarthy and he will never be speaker unless you finds democrats who will vot for him and that's just not going to happen. so actually, did well in the conference. an impressive win in the conference, but because this margin is so small, if these freedom caucus people stick to their guns, so to speak, i don't see how he's ever speaker of the house. >> we'll follow that, these fascinating dynamics within the republican party, but there's still a lot more going on. you might have heard yesterday that donald trump announced another run for president. >> okay. why would he do that? >> late at night. >> because he keeps losing? >> ahead of trump's announcement former governor ron desantis was asked -- >> this is like the tampa bay

buccaneers 0-14 asking the nfl to have a couple more games. willie, i don't understand this? remember the box when they had the pastry colors on and -- >> yeah. >> and their coach -- >> a little like wah, wah. >> would you play three more games? that's what trump's doing now. >> humly i might leave the stage but i think that's where we're different. >> league might say no. i don't know about the league. so but desantis responded to some comments that president trump made about him, desanctimonious. take a live. >> focuses on leadership and end of the day i would tell people to check out the scoreboard from last tuesday night. >> oh. george conway, you have a new opinion piece in the "washington post" entitled "trump is out for vengeance and to protect himself

from prosecution" you write, a big reason trump announced his run is he fears criminal prosecution. he's a desperate man. a threatened and rabid animal to could face multiple prosecution over the next year and thinks running for president and specter of violence from his fringiest supporters will protect him from the prosecutors. if he's indicted he promises problems in this country, the likes of which perhaps we've never seen before. and he'll make good on that promise as senator mitch mcconnell said last year, trump was determined to torch our institutions on the way out in january of 2021. merely because he lost an election. so just imagine what trump would do to stay out of jail and, you know -- in the announcement trump made, it's important to note that his daughter who was a big part of the campaign, you know, really enjoyed bringing

her onstage and engaging her, she says she loves her dad but she's out of politics. not doing this. >> yeah. getting out of politics. you also had other people. quoted matt gaetz before, here's what ivanka said. >> this time around prioritizing my own children, private life creating a family and do not plan to be involved in politics while i always will love and support my father going forward, i will do so outside the political arena. >> yeah. support him outside -- >> that's ivanka. >> heard the same thing with jared also. but george conway, interesting. no politician's lining up, because even matt gaetz, we quoted before. >> who was there? >> was going to fly down for it and announced yesterday he couldn't come because of weather. i checked my weather app. it looked pretty good, actually, in between d.c.a. and pvi, but

he didn't make the flight. this is a wounded, wounded politician, isn't it? >> he is. absolutely is. he does not carry the weight he once carried. clearly not as afraid of him as they once were. clearly don't want to kiss the ring in a way they once kissed the ring, but the problem is, he's still there. and he still has a chunk of the party, of rank and file members of the party who are almost cultishly in support of him. and, you know, he's going to take -- he'll burn the house down before he let's anybody else take the nomination for him. so somebody better -- if somebody's going to challenge him, it has to be a one-on-one challenge because of the way delegate rules work out from, if a multicandidate race occurs i think he's going to win it with 30% or 40% of the vote. i think the republican party has a problem. they have to fight trump or let

him self-destruct, but it's just -- just a terrible, terrible hobson choice that the republican party faces. >> and also, george, you write in the piece under investigation. part of this, he thinks, to protect himself from prosecution. a couple federal probes, fulton county georgia probe, all the stuff going on in new york on a civil and criminal level. a lot swirling around him in which he could be directly implicated. for people, to make clear from your legal perspective, does this protect him in any way from any of that? >> absolutely not. it's basically, kind of blackmail. it's a threat. it's a threat of violence trying to deter prosecutors by threatening, implying civil addition order, doesn't that a number of times. if something like that happens, he'd say, oh, these are the things that happen when bad people do bad things to me. and he's -- he wants that to

happen. and that's why in part he's running, and -- it's dangerous. it's just a dangerous thing. >> judiciary's made clear those investigations continue regardless whether he's a candidate or not. susan, had you to watch a little of last night and see a guy who was damaged from where he was in june of 2015 when he came down the escalator and made that, was it repugnant speech, but to some people novelty to this guy. okay. try something new. send him to washington shake it up, succeeded on tv but now a long track record. impeach add couple of times lost the popular vote twice, under investigation. led and attempted coup against the government. spend all morning talking about that, we could. do you think enough republicans see in that guy what they saw seven years ago, for him to win the nomination? >> too often predicted trouble ahead for donald trump with supporters that didn't develop but you do see things we have never seen before. not since he won the nomination the first time around.

which is leading republicans willing to take him on, on the record, in-person, his former vice president, ron desantis -- mike pence doing that. ron desantis, larry hogan, asa hutchinson. various figgers in the republican party. there's no sense, i think, that the people, the other republicans who want to run for the republican nomination are going to be scared off by donald trump this time. he may still win the nomination, continues to have a significant portion of the party in his thrall but it's not the same situation. a more challenging one and not only less energetic than from 2015, less energetic than a week earlier when he did the rally, teased the idea of running and seemed energized by it excited about it. then midterm results, suddenly he was less. >> and republican leadership, republican voters' minds is,

donald trump led us off a cliff. somehow lost the senate, won a slim margin in the house and now wants the keys back to the car. >> yeah. >> and again the thing is, right there in front of everybody. look at see. his candidates lost for the most part. people that embraced his theory, which he's talked about the past two years looking back, stolen election, they all lost. you have the "wall street journal" editorial page, "national review" all of these conservative outlets and you have a lot of voters saying, enough is enough. they've got a 46-year-old governor of one of the largest, most important states in america, he ran the tables historic victory and then you have donald trump, 76, i don't know. is he 76, 68, but a guy with a lot of mileage on him. a lot of losses. lost for the party in 2017. lost for the party if 2018.

lost for the party in 2019. host for the party in 2020. lost for the party in 2022. he's a losingest one-term president since herbert hoover. >> stole documents. >> he's under investigation. he's going to get indicted. you've got the january 6th riots. so one person in jail after another that are his supporters saying, we came to washington because that's what donald trump wanted us to do. so, yeah. the choice, the choice is very clear. and willie, by the way, one thing. just an important quote. going back to the tampa bay buccaneers because donald trump really is the 1976 buccaneers. the winless buccaneers. i want to go back. and just -- i just -- one of my favorite quotes of the creamsicle buccaneers when they just finished losing i think final game of the year, and were fumbling execution on the field terrible and one of the reporters in tampa asked john

mckay after the game, coach what do you think about the execution of your team? john mckay said, i'm all for it. [ laughter ] >> one of the great quotes in the history of sports. >> i'm all for it! >> george conway, thank you so much for being on this morning. we will see you again soon, and here's a look now at other stories we're following this morning. the man accused of breaking into speaker nancy pelosi's home and beating her husband with a hammer has pleaded not guilty to federal charges. if convicted 42-year-old david depape faces a sentence up to 50 years in prison. he pleaded not guilty to attempted murder, burglary and elder abuse. depape is scheduled to return to federal court on friday. former trump organization chief financial officer allen weisselberg took the witness stand yesterday for the first time to testify against his

employer. he told jurors donald trump had been aware of the unusual pay structure for high-level employees saying the company didn't pay taxes on perks for executives such as rent-free apartments and luxury cars. >> he flipped? >> yes. weisselberg considered the prosecution's star witness in the criminal tax fraud case against the trump organization. donald trump has not been charged with any wrongdoing. lawyers for the trump organization argue weisselberg acted alone saying neither trump nor the company should be blamed. >> not what weisselberg said. >> no. after four scrubbed launches, artemis 1 is on its way to the moon. the rocket successfully launched from the kennedy space center in cape canaveral early this morning. the most powerful rocket ever built by nasa is carrying an empty crew capsule into a wide orbit around the moon. the capsule will return to earth

next month projected to splash down in the pick ocean. the space agency plans to send four astronauts around the moon on the next flight in 2024 with the goal of once again stepping foot on the moon as early as 2025. >> maybe willie and i can do that. >> you guys want to go? >> maybe we should. >> that could be cool. >> willie, breaking news from the bbc which is in line with what i heard last night from officials. and bbc said missile hit poland likely to have come from ukrainian air defense, polish prime minister says, as investigations continue. >> wow. hmm. >> but last night obviously, an issue they worked well into the night over, and they started to believe later in the evening that, in fact, it had come from ukraine air defenses but we're trying to confirm that. looks like the polish prime minister just did. >> yeah. something president biden himself suggested before leaving the g20 last night saying it

seems unlikely that this came from russia. the president's quote and now as you say, moments ago, poland's president now saying that the missile that landed in his own country very likely came from ukrainian air defense. we're going to dig through that in a minute. >> wow. much more on what we're learning about this missile strike that has nato leaders holding emergency talks today. richard haass and admiral james stavridis joins us for that. a live report from ukraine as well. we'll be right back. research shows people remember commercials with nostalgia. so to help you remember that liberty mutual customizes your home insurance, here's one that'll really take you back. wow! what'd you get, ryan? it's customized home insurance from liberty mutual!!! what does it do, bud?

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missile strike in poland that is believed to be accidental. the polish government says two people were killed yesterday in the explosion about 15 miles away from the country's border with ukraine. in a statement this morning, poland's president says "there is no indication that this was an intentional attack on poland. most likely it was a russian-made rocket. there are many indications that it was an air defense missile, which unfortunately fell on polish territory." belgium's defense minister previously said today it appeared that parts of russian missiles along with a ukrainian interception missile landed in the neighboring country. he added the investigation into what happened is ongoing and nothing has yet been confirmed. russia denied responsibility for the strike. let's get the latest from on the ground. nbc news correspondent molly

hunter from western ukraine near the country's border with poland. molly what more can you tell us about what happened? >> reporter: mika, the polish president is giving a press conference right now. the lines you just read are ongoing. we may get more information. any confirmation, though, of exactly what happened is going to come from warsaw and going to come from the poles. last night they said, look, no one jump to conclusions. there are indications this was a russian-made missile, tracking with what the president just said. it was a russian machine-made missile no indication fired by the russian side and indications getting from u.s. and other officials. my colleague reports this morning that nbc news learning that preliminary indications suggest a ukrainian air defense system was involved in this incident according to a senior u.s. official, and european government official. i do just want to play a little bit of what president biden said

about this when asked about it in bali. take a listen. >> is it too early to say whether this missile was fired from russia? >> there is preliminary information that contests that. i don't want to say that until we completely investigate, but it -- it is -- i -- it's unlikely in the minds of the trajectory is was fired from russia, but we'll see. we'll see. >> mr. president, poland suggesting invoing article 4 or 5 from nato, sir? >> we're going to probably have a meeting of the, of the -- of the ambassadors. so that looks like what we're going to go do next. >> reporter: yeah. a big investigation absolutely still ongoing.

the president being very cautious about what kind of information they release obviously given the indications. here in ukraine president zelenskyy spoke last night and firmly came out before any polish officials said similar, he said russian missiles hit poland, clearly in this evening address and his foreign minister this morning tweeted this morning anything suggestion it was not a russian missile is propaganda not to be believed. a lot of walking back from ukrainian officials today. poles trying to say wait until we have all of the ground facts, until the investigation is done, before anyone jumps to conclusions. mika? >> nbc's molly hunter. thank you very much for your reporting. let's bring in the president of the council on foreign relations richard haass and retired four-star general james stavridis, nbc news and msnbc chief international analyst and former supreme allied commander of nato. >> admiral, begin with you. we were on the phone last night.

trying to figure out exactly what was going on. and the good news that came, and, as nato commander, a guy that understands the need to coordinate the contours and nobody getting in front of the other. the good news, there was the initial fear after the news broke perhaps some of our allies might get from front of each other. they stood shoulder to shoulder. they measured their words, and let the united states know that we would be moving forward together in whatever response. this is -- again, it sounds like this was an inadvertent mistake, but certainly a good test, was it not, in case there are, the ratcheting up of tensions in the future? >> absolutely a good point. you know, in the military we say, the first report is always wrong. it's actually not always wrong, but it's a pretty good way to bet, and yesterday there was a

lot of, a lot of speculation. i think most of us were saying, hey, let's wait. let's see what the facts are here. could it have been a deliberate attack? boy that looks really unlikely. you're not going to start a war with nato with a couple of missiles hiding a field in poland. could it have been a ukrainian air defense system? yeah. that's kind of a possibility for sure and that's looking now where this is trending. could it have been a russian missile that just went stupid, was programmed incorrectly? we certainly have seen a lot of russian military failures. looks like now we're circling in on it was ukrainian using a russian-made missile, s300, call sign grumble. it's got a range of about 100 miles. can go up to 100,000 feet. ubiquitous air system. that makes sense to me as i look at the field here. bottom line, the attention now

shifts to warsaw where we're going to hear the results of the investigation. i think quite clearly in the next few hours and to brussels where article 4 of the nato treaty, not article 5. article 5 is the famous one and an attack on one is an attack on all. article 4 is, let's get together and talk about it. let's consult. that's what the president meant when he said last night that the ambassadors would be getting together. these are the representatives of the 30 nations of nato in the north atlantic council. they'll meet together, i've briefed that body many times as supreme allied commander. they'll have this conversation. i think they'll talk about potentially increasing air defense for ukraine and i'll finish here, joe. really, what we ought to focus on assuming this does turn out to be ukrainian air defense is the fact that russia is launching hundreds of missile strikes against critical

infrastructure, electricity, heating, all of that. another word for that is war crimes. we need to be giving the ukrainians for ability to defend themselves against this in the future. >> such an important point. the reason it was a ukrainian defense missile that engaged in a accident, reason they're firing those up is because russia is attacking ukraine deep in its own territory near the polish border going after infrastructure and civilian targets. a couple minutes ago, richard, polish president duterte called it unfortunate accident and not an intentional attack. this never made sense to you yesterday it was a russian attack? >> no. at admiral stavridis said, risk taking on nato. russia can't defeat ukraine why in the world would they take on nato made zero, zero sense. so, yeah. there was no way this, i thought, could have been an intentional russian attack.

i think the poles look studied, measured. what you want to look here. nato looks good. ukraine looks a little too hot. the idea ukraine, this has to be a russian -- almost looks as if they wanted it to be something more. that's unfortunate and won't help their credibility. so -- look. i think the only other lesson i'd take from this is any time you have a hot war, stuff happens, to use mr. rumsfeld's comment. danger of escalation is implicit. danger of accidents. again, it's the reason you don't want to fly off the handle. when stuff happens, just get the facts, and make sure you're responding to something that was actual, and possible intention. you don't want an invertant escalation. >> a little bit of a lesson when something hot is going on. >> and even if the president of

the united states said this was probably not an attack, why were ukrainian officials get so out there saying it was? >> look, you're on thin ice, but ukraine longing for an ever-stronger western response. they're fighting this war alone and the idea they could bring in, if you will, partners more directly has been a ukrainian goal from the get-go. doesn't surprise me, but again, i don't think it serves their purposes because it will reinforce the sense that there's perhaps some gap between nato or western interests and ukrainian interests and i don't think that's something that the ukrainians want to open up, because that gets you into the whole negotiation, more termination goals and so forth. i think it would be wise if they also learned a lesson from this. they don't want to be the cheerleaders of a greater western -- they ultimately like everyone else should want this war to come to an end. >> admiral, sam stein here.

what was going through my head yesterday was, what if, glad this wasn't the case, what if it was an inadvertent accidental russian missile landed in polish field and killed two poles? under the nato charter, what happens at that case? is that considered an actual attack? how do you determine motive and what could have been the outcome of something like that? luckily it did not happen. >> if you read the nato treaty -- by the way, i recommend you do it. it will take you ten minutes to read it. it's only 14 articles. a model of simplicity. the two articles you want to focus on, sam, article 5, which you just mentioned, an attack on one is an attack on all. what is does not say is, if there is an attack, if there is a strike, we are bound to go to war. it doesn't kick off war.

what it really kicks off is consultation, article 4, happening this morning, and it will include the, the potential to take further action. so, again, what's happening today in brussels is, ambassadors of those 30 nations are meeting, and they're looking at options, and i think it will probably land on more air defense, both along that nato border, and potentially more air defense going to ukraine. that's probably the right outcome. >> well, retired four-star admiral james stavridis and richard haass, thank you both very much. important to have you both on today. appreciate it. coming up, another election denying candidate admits defeat. we'll tell you which trump-backed nominee was the latest to concede their race, interesting. that the election deniers arein

>> it's important. meanwhile, kari lake continues to push election falsities following her loss in the arizona governor's race. the fact she didn't win is giving the "wall street journal" editorial board optimism. a look at that piece ahead on "morning joe."

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well, we fell in love through gaming. but now the internet lags and it throws the whole thing off. when did you first discover this lag? i signed us up for t-mobile home internet. ugh! but, we found other interests. i guess we have. [both] finch! let's go! oh yeah! it's not the same. what could you do to solve the problem? we could get xfinity? that's actually super adult of you to suggest. i can't wait to squad up. i love it when you talk nerdy to me. guy, guys, guys, we're still in session. and i don't know what the heck you're talking about.

53 past the hour. look at that beautiful -- foggy -- shot of washington, d.c. this morning. a lot of clouds this morning, but everyone's on their way to work, which is a good thing. another election denier -- >> and what do they say? >> we're done. another election denier conceded to their opponent. adam laxalt, nevada's republican nominee for the united states

senate announced yesterday he had called incumbent senator catherine cortez masto to congratulate her on her win. laxalt posted this statement as well on his twitter page. paired with a line of scripture from the new testament. reciting, "i have fought the good fight. i have finished the race. i have kept the faith." senator cortez masto will be our guest in our third hour. important, though that he conceded. >> the thing is so many people like to say that's what you're supposed to do. exactly. but, in 2022 when the leader of the party, the person that got you into the race as an election denier, i celebrate every concession from a republican or a democrat especially if they're positive. that seems to be positive. susan page, doug mastriano people thought one of the most extreme candidates for governor gave a very gracious concession

speech. a concession statement and, again, i understand. that's what we're all supposed to do, but people stopped doing it. it's nice to see. >> not that we have to congratulate losers for acknowledging that they lost, but the two most important things i think that have happened in the wake of these midterm. number one, losers are conceding. number two that the election deniers who sought the jobs that would put them in charge of election processes in about half a dozen battleground states all lost. that sets a much better landscape for us to have these be free, fair and robust elections next time around. >> yeah. and sam stein, you have a "wall street journal" editorial page actually saying kari lake's loss, the final nail in the coffin, for election deniers,

her loss destroys "stop the steal." it's end of the road they say and final line a beautiful final line. perhaps at last in 2020 election, it's over. >> i mean, let's hope. right? this is a very dark chapter of our political history. at the same time, we begin a new chapter with donald trump emerging last night for his third presidential run. he didn't go too hard on election denialism but had a huge swath of the speech devoted to the need for paper ballots. an implicit nod to the idea his election was stolen. i can't match an future in which he's out on the trail and doesn't relitigate the 2020 election and continue to argue that 2022 elections were also stolen, which he is doing in realtime on his social media site. i am heartened mastriano and

saying let's get on with this, i'm cautiously optimistic. worried it can still be with us. >> yeah. i agree. i agree. >> willie, the thing is, it's -- it's not a grand thing for democracy, when somebody who wins an election says, yeah, i won an election, but actually democracy depends on these people that put their names on the ballot, participated. again, i know how hard that is. did it four times, and i've gotten nothing but respect for these people who have done this. they come up short. i know it's heartbreaking for their families, loved ones and for them, but to walk out there and, and say that. buchanans had to do it. it's been heartbreaking for some time, but this morning i think we all owe them a special thanks. >> absolutely. and it started with tim ryan the morning after the election in ohio when he made a very gracious concession speech after a tough race. a year and a half of his life and time losing to j.d. vance, a

guy he thought he was better than to be the senator. made the point not just concede the election to j.d. vance it's important i stand here and do this in a public way because it's how ow democracy works. real fears around many election-denying candidates if the races were close, within a couple of points even, that the system was going to be thrown into chaos, just hasn't happened. just in cases like kari lake and other races down ballot. look at kari lake, no energy around her protests. blake masters conceded, mark finchem lost. the state of arizona was going to be ground zero for this problem and hasn't materialized. she's still calling into question the vote. seems most voters even in the state of arizona and most republicans moved past kari lake. >> that's the important thing. listen to mitch mcconnell. it wasn't just democrats that rejected the republicans message

of fear and election denying as mitch mcconnell said. he said, we got crushed by independents and moderates in arizona. we got crushed, mitch mcconnell's only words, about republicans, and they did one final thing we showed the tim ryan/j.d. vance numbers. by all answer, republicans and democrats said tim ryan ran as good a race as anybody could have run and j.d. vance ran one of the least inspires races. a very lazy candidate. rude and abusive at times even to his own contributors. but look at that, though, and look how much j.d. vance won by. this is a real message to democrats, ohio's no longer a swing state. florida's no longer a swing state. don't waste your money there. go to states where you can win in 2024. >> and if you're tim ryan. >> he's got a future. >> absolutely. sam stein, susan page thank you

both very much. and still ahead, as we mentioned, democratic senator catherine cortez masto of nevada will be our guest this morning. plus georgia's republican secretary of state brad raffens raffensberger will join the conversation. "morning joe" will be right back. ght back. it was very hard. kimberly came to clearchoice with a bunch of missing te when a truck hit my car, it was very hard. the insurance company wasn't fair. i didid't t kn whahatmy c caswa, so i called the barnes firm. i'm rich barnes. it's hard for people to k how much their accident case is worth.h barnes. t ouour juryry aorneneys hehelpou

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trump's rubbing for president yet again in 2024 and trump says still top of his game feeling sharper than ever an totally 100% to leave. [ slurring words ] >> the united states -- >> said won't be slowed down by what happened in last week's -- [ slurring words ] >> midtown in manhattan. >> and he wants to fix our broken -- >> deflighture. >> and work with big companies like -- >> jaapple.

[ slurring words ] aloninous. >> and not back down until saying. >> merry christmas, everybody! >> come on, man! >> welcome back to "morning joe." >> can you imagine if they did that? would noting good. >> i choose to move forward. it's wednesday, november 16th and it's good to have you all with us this morning along with joe, willie and me. we also have columnist for the "new york post" john if a door itch with us and presidential historian and pulitzer price-winning author doris kearns goodwin joins us. good to you have both with us. the twice impeached former president currently under investigation on a number of levels, but in one case for trying to overturn the 2020 election. trying to say it way straight face. inspired and insurrection at the capitol, where people were killed. announced last night, that he's running for president again. in the hour-long rambling

speech, donald trump rehashed old conspiracies, exaggerated his record, and railed against president biden and the so-called radical left. claimed to be a victim of a rogue justice department and despite having many hand-picked candidates losing a week ago, declared he's running. >> a personal privilege here, after the election spoke to a lot of trump supporters. >> yeah. >> and a lot of republicans. you know what i did? i talked about how great america was. i said, you know, you wouldn't know this by listening to donald trump, by listening to -- >> a lot of his friends and neighbors are in the audience, actually. a woman pardon sitting next to me. >> a lot of donald trump supporters, and the message was very clear. let's look past all the

in-fighting and look at the big picture. america's gdp, higher than ever. the dollar enjoying a generational high. u.s. poverty rates at a 50-year low. the united states military when compared to all the other militaries in the world, if you take david kennedy's measurement of the rise and fall of the great empires, we are actually stronger relative to the rest of the world than ever before. there are a lot of things to be grateful about, about how strong this country is. and i was overwhelmed by people of both parties coming up saying, thank you, thank you, i love this country. i believe in america. i'm tired of the negativity. you know where i'm going! donald trump's speech last night was negative. everything i've heard him say over the past several months. terrible -- even turns on qanon

music to tell us how america is terrible. it's a failing nation. its military's horrible. law enforcement is horrible. everything about america is rotten to the core he says with all of the american flags he said behind him, just what he said before he got elected that the american dream was dead and we were in our worst times. doris -- americans just never respond to that negativity. they want something different. can you tell me how much of a departure last night's announcement was from almost any presidential announcement you've ever heard, read or studied about? >> absolutely flew in the face of what announcement speeches are supposed toing's supposed to have hope, excitement, happy days are here again, president roosevelt talked about. george bush 43, compassionate,

conservatives and republican party a new vision. when obama came, 8,000 people there. music, a sense of excitement about the future. interesting what president trump, former president trump said a couple weeks ago was, you're going to be very, very happy, because i'm going to make this great announcement. no joy in his voice that night, last night. no sense of his having any fun. no sense of moving the country forward. a failing nation, disrespected by all other peoples in the world. you can't win that way. you can't not have that contagious enthusiasm that you've got to project. he used to have it when arguing about things first time around. but somehow last night felt like he had a girdle on and somehow didn't even go to the election deniers. >> ooh. >> an interesting imagining, right? a girdle on him, right? but you can't cut yourself down without projecting to the country you're excited. this is going to be the run. we're the future, looking heard. where most announcement speeches go. historians will look at this, where was this?

what's going on. incredibly dim view of the country expressed by former president trump last night. joe, i know you'll get to john's op-ed in the "new york post." i wanted to point out look at the cover, no picture of donald trump, you might expect, but on the bottom says, i think we'll put it out. simply says "florida man makes announcement." >> oh. >> that's the line on the cover. >> then to get to the news of donald trump. >> wow. >> jumping back into the race, you have to turn to page 26 of the "new york post." >> hmm. >> so interesting you saw that kind of thin crowd. a lot of cell phones in the air. his daughter put out a statement saying that she's not going to be in politics anymore. so she's out. and i guess might be word about -- he doesn't have this, the same -- it's not like last time. >> the difference is also, you had donald trump beating up marco rubio, ted cruz, rand paul.

all of these other senators onstage back in 2016. you have ron desantis now who won't even take the bait. >> uh-huh. >> who's only thing -- desantis is saying, hey, just look at the scoreboard. i ran up massive victories in my state and donald trump's candidates lost. just look at the scoreboard. he's actually put himself above donald trump. >> a good point. look at the scoreboard and do it all the time, go through all elections that he's helped republicans lose, and then seriously. on the sign says, "make america great again"? back to insurrections? i don't think people do. i think people from all sides of the aisle -- i don't think they like that. that's my gut. my gut. >> and from what i'm gathering, republican, democrats, independents, most people i'm talking to now. many who supported donald trump, are saying time for the republicans to move forward. >> yeah. so john, your recent op-ed for

the "new york post" written before trump's announcement is entitled "here's how donald trump sabotaged the republican midterms." you right in wart this, in almost every place a trumpster lost. there had been a regular republican who could and should have been the party's nominee. a nominee who could have taken advantage of the uniquely horrible facts and fundamentals confronting democratic candidates in 2022. but then toxic trump came into these races picking the candidates, candidate who bowed lowest or as in pennsylvania went for a snake oil doctor salesman because it seems his wife enjoyed watching mehmet oz on afternoon tv. voters have their own problems. this election was not about them. not toxic trump's inability to accept his oh failure and desperate need to elevate cringe-inducing boot liquors

punishing politicians capable of an independent thought. >> and john, very simple. as you agree, a simple exercise here. dr. oz, mccormack in pennsylvania and blake masters in arizona with dougducey. those examples. there's so many more. >> that piece came out last thursday, and over the weekend, to the extent it was sort of prophetic, i mean, we have a systematic kind of series of voters drone strikes on trump candidates across the country. you know? in oregon. in michigan. in -- new hampshire. you have these sort of trump-anointed people who were taken out while in districts that republicans should have won, and if you also, you know,

look at these senate races, and governors' races. >> my god. >> kari lake ran -- 11 points behind doug ducey? doug ducey won by 12 or -- >> 14. >> 14, excuse me. so, you know, everywhere you look, voters -- and then, of course, in arizona, republican house candidates won while the three people at top of the ticket, the secretary of state candidate, governor candidate and senate candidate all lost. so voters were not blanket taking out republicans. they were taking out trump-aligned, trump-endorsed republicans whose main issue was stopping the steal. and that's -- it's systematic, and nationwide, and that means republican voters, they may not have crossed the aisle to vote. they may have under voted or not come out to vote at all.

they didn't like this. now, i will say this, which is, got to be careful here. this speech was not for us, and for people like us. people who are either disaffective with him or seriously analytical about politics, and i think it's a mistake to go forward thinking, ah, we moved on. everybody's moved on. like, in 2015 everybody thought this was some kind of bizarre side show thing going on with the escalator and all of that and it took a month for trump to take the lead in the republican primaries and polling, and he never surrendered it and until last week when that first new poll came out saying desantis was two points more favorably viewed for 2024 by republicans than trump, that was the first time since july 2015 he has not had the absolute support, not absolute, but not had the plurality support and then absolute support of republicans in a poll. and can he get it back?

yes. again, sorry to analogize here, you kept saying the speech was very negative, and it was, but it was also a thorough going, it was so long. hard to pay attention to, but the systematic effort to take all of the fundamental facts about the economy, and afghanistan and others and put them into a pile and say, you know, i am running to stop what's happened here over these two years and what will happen in the coming two years. he's getting out in front of what is a, will be the standard republican message of any candidate who comes into the race, and that is the message of anyone who is running against an incumbent. he screwed up. he's done this, this and this. i'm going to come in and restore what was lost. he can say restore myself. he said this, and crazy stuff how the country was in the greatest shape in history and then they took it away from him, of course, preposterous since he

lost in the middle of a pandemic. >> yeah, willie, one thing quickly. also, we were talking about how long this speech was. there's actually video. i don't know if you've seen it people trying to leave while donald trump was still leaving, and security won't let them out. >> the security guards won't let them out. crowd pushing towards the door and security guards pushing them back in telling them they cannot leave. >> so he can have crowd size. >> straight out of bronx tale. you can't leave. turners the lock. right? won't let them out of the place. you're right. no elected officials sort of cawthorn, lost this primary. roger stone there. >> ivanka not there. >> republicly said wants nothing to do with this new campaign .

>> and skipped the speech. >> tyke to put donald trump in the rearview mirror. not so easy and doesn't always happen that way. yesterday ted cruz on tv saying i think we should keep options open. if he's the nominee he has my full support. lindsey graham watching that speech said if donald trump can stick to this tone and make this kind of speech he's going to be tough to beat, and this is the way it should be. you start to see the usual suspects slowly, maybe falling in line. is there a chance, if ron desantis decides he wants to do it, that some of those people peel off? that they do leave donald trump or can they just not quit the guy? >> sure. i think we have to see what net effect he has on them. i mean, the reason that everyone got afraid of trump is that he targeted individual politicians. not just in the primaries but targeted senator jeff flake. targeted senator bob corker, both republicans, who were not falling for his schtick in 2017.

and their constituents made it clear to them that they would not win in a republican primary, and both of them preemptively retired. and one of those seats, flake's seat, ended up going to a democrat. you can see how trump enforced his conformity but at the, you know, at a cost to his party. if it looks like he is not having the same oceanic effect on republican-base support in 2023, there will be a stampede away from him. so my friend john ellis harks a fantastic substack basically says, watch whether he rates on fox, on cnn. here, a, if you run stuff of his. finding in 2015-16, put him on the air and ratings would double. will he rate? doesn't rate, he's finished, if he does rate, ted cruz and

people like that are not going to flee from his side. >> interesting, joe, too, that hannity, took the speech for a while and at some point decided they'd seen enough and cut away. scheduled for about 30 minutes. went well over an hour, all of his speeches do. at some point sean hannity said, okay. i think we got. >> pulled away, 2025 minutes into it. none of the major networks carried it. no think msnbc showed it. not showing clips. not to make any clip, because it's not interesting. heard it all before, and it was a bunch of grievances, a bunch of lies. really, why even play it? we -- >> especially, i mean, so many different legal stories to cover. allen weisselberg flipping against trump. getting into the fray and

possibly doing something to protect himself legally, create a firestorm, call it a witch-hunt. doesn't really feel like last time around for sure and -- >> the issue of relevance. right? how relevant is donald trump now? >> well, he's relevant, because -- >> in 2015, 2016, he was relevant. >> midterms results. >> after every one of his candidates, or almost all of his candidates lose, and it shows that he just doesn't have power. look at that. of course, we talked about the senate candidates have lost, but look at those house candidates. there were, i believe, five to six swing seat districts that donald trump endorsed. he went 0 for 6. there is of course, at the end, joe kent, who was put up, was -- an extreme maga candidate, who was 'spos edsupposed to replace

congresswoman who voted for donald trump's impeachment. peter meyer, another person replaced by john, i think john gibbs, i think is his name. >> yeah. >> john gibbs, a man who wanted to do away with a woman's right to vote. he lost. it's -- look at the governors that donald trump supported who lost. it's an absolute nightmare for the republican party. hard to believe that after losing, following trump in 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020 -- and 2022 that they would follow him against in 2024, but if they do follow him again in 2024, there will be a lot of people in the biden white house who will be happy, because they will know that donald trump will lose yet again. doris, let's -- let's expand our -- our view here a bit. a way just from donald trump.

away from the presidency, and let me just ask you to take a look at what happened over the past week. it is extraordinary. we've seen even the most successful presidents, ronald reagan. it is, his party got beaten badly in '82 and '86. barack obama beaten terribly in 2010, and 2014. of course, it -- it just seemed to happen historically. it didn't happen this last week. talk about -- can you put it in perspective for us historically what we saw this past week? >> i think when history looks at this election, they're going to start with the fact that president trump was not willing to accept the loss originally in 2020, and then the january 6th attack was a way of keeping that loss from being real. and then you see the hearings

that came out in the summer, and they told us what had really happened. people knew something was wrong. something was wrong with the kay kay-of- -- chaos. election deniers had an extraordinary election went against people attacking them, worked day in day out. this is overall sense of people knowing that something's wrong, and they went to the polls. said 44% went to the polls because they thought democracy was at issue. we can't forget something larger that happened than we're talking about right now with his announcement. then president biden used the bully pulpit to give direction. vote against these people who don't accept an election and every single one of those major deniers lost. meaning the system held. i think now that people feel a sense that the system has held, history's going to say we can move forward in a way that we were worried about the chaos. that may not be there, chaos.

president trump doesn't have the same power he did when he was leading a group of people saying that the whole system is corrupt. s system proved itself this time. went against people's short-term ambitions. every now and then you get a generation comes up and young people voted in record numbers, voted for democracy. that means willing to put their short-term needs about inflation and the economy against the larger-term abstract thing that democracy matters and every now and then you get a generation, rendezvous with defendant any with fdr. john kennedy talking, do something for your country and not just for yourself. it was obama giving that sense of hope for the future, and when that happens, something's happened in the country. that's the most important thing i think you need to take a sense of contagious excitement from that, that democracy was on the ballot, the president helped directs towards us and the people came through. the reason, first time got to vote after 2020, after the january 6th, after the hearings.

were on the ballot finally and the people came through. that's what we should talk about today. the celebration. system held, people voted their minds. they voted for not inflation, they voted for their country. history will celebrate that 50 years from now, 100 years from now when i'm not around. >> thank you both very much for joining us, for being on this morning. and joining us now, georgia's republican secretary of state brad raffensperger in cambridge, massachusetts this morning after making an appearance at the harvard kennedy school institute of politics, and it's going to have you onboard this morning. >> mr. secretary, great to you have there. georgia, going uptown. okay. harvard. exactly. mr. secretary, man, you have, you have seen some twists and

turns since 2020. let's start, though, by talking about georgia. there are a lot of people that have been critical of the laws in georgia. talking about jim crow, 2.0, that atlanta, lost the all-star game because a bill we here on "morning joe" think the mlb didn't even read. stacey abrams and others wanted the all-star game to be there. a lot of criticism. yet look at numbers this past week. remarkable. talk about what you saw in georgia? >> well, we had a record -- we have just a record turnout. it was bigger than what we had in 2018. we had short lines. our average wait time in lines was two minutes in the afternoon. tracking at three minutes. longest on leaderboard 14 minutes. check-in time, got to the front line, 47 seconds. just a very smooth process. we worked hard with the counties to keep those lines short.

make sure everyone had the opportunity to vote. in georgia, you can vote no excuse absentee voting 17 days early voting and election day. gave voters a choice and they responded. we had a very calm, smooth, well-attended, you know, good turnout election. >> and what can be expected with the runoff? that's happening in georgia, between senator raphael warnock and, of course, herschel walker? will that go smoothly? >> yes, it will. we've been working with the counties. it's a tighter schedule. it's a four-week runoff period. ballots sent and people can request absentee ballots. that's happened and early voting starts right after thanksgiving, the monday after. five days early voting, election day and no excuse absentee voting. we expect more than likely half the voters will come back to vote. 's in a runoff four years ago and know about 1.5, 1.6 people

show up. down ballot. this election is much more important, even though not to control the senate. we'll prepare the counties for large numbers. >> mr. secretary, good morning. you won re-election again with relative ease this time. despite the fact you've been through a lot in that state. obviously, all heard the phone call you had to listen to donald trump ask you to find the votes, to give him the state of georgia in the 2020 election. the reason i ask you that is, what do you think is the lesson to other republicans? you are a republican through and through. you've said before you voted for donald trump. supported him, but not going to go so far as to betray your oath and try to flip that state to donald trump. there are a lot of republicans who are afraid to stand up to donald trump. what is the lesson in your victory about what you can say to donald trump and what you can stand up to? >> well, i think mitch mcconnell hit it, hit the nail on the head

said candidate quality. that quality talking about character, integrity, basic honesty and ability to have civil discourse and then quoting reagan, to be able to speak kindly. people are tired of the vitriol and want people to get the job done and focus on their issues. there's a big praise for that and candidates that run in that lane did very well on election day. >> now, mr. secretary, talk about controversy that is brewing in georgia about, i guess this saturday, holiday, a lot of people say it's a holiday commemorating robert e. lee's birthday, a line signed to change in a and it is a georgia state holiday. didn't make much of a difference when you had, i think it was nine weeks two years ago. compressed to about four weeks now. so democrats are saying we really need that day. we've been saying here time and

again is, if you got a problem with laws, talk to the state legislature. because they're the ones who make the laws. i'm curious. anything that you can do at this late point to make voting on saturday available? or is it too late in the process? >> we have an interpretation from the attorney general's office and follow their directives and so really it's next session general assembly cannings and look as tweaks on election. few looking at the success we had this past election, but something the general assembly wants to look at. really where it has to happen. postelection. we have to follow the law. i've shown i'm going to follow the law, follow the constitution, and the department of laws which is the attorney general's office gives clear directives on what the law is. >> and finally, how important was it that secretaries of state

election deniers got defeated across america? >> voters spoke very clearly they want people that are honest, accept the results, accept the will of the people's in georgia we've sewn we have honest and fair elections. many don't understand the process, each state has different processes, look how fast our results were done and accurate they've been. we're going to do an audit of the state-wide race and show everyone we have honest, fair and accurate elections. and voters, we want them to have confidence in the process. a lot of people casting dispersions on the process and it's not helpful for our democracy. >> no. georgia's secretary of state brad raffensperger, thank you for being on today, and thank you for your service. >> thank you. >> thank you. it's time now for a look at morning papers. the "atlanta journal-constitution" reports georgia's speerp court judge overturned the state's law that bans abortion as early as six

weeks of pregnancy ruling it unconstitutional. the judge's decision makes the procedure legal statewide again until at least 20 weeks of pregnancy. in maine, portland press herald leads with ongoing fbi investigation into phone calls that left ten schools in maine on lockdown yesterday. police received several phone calls reporting an active shooter situation at different schools across the state. officers determined the calls were a hoax. it's not yet known who made those phone calls. in florida. the news press reports the state-backed insurance company that boosted cost estimate of hurricane ian. revised projection is expected to reach nearly $4 billion, a significant increase from the previous estimate. factors in claims data, litigation costs and inflation as well. and north carolina's "times" news highlights the u.n.'s

latest population report. findings show the world population reached 8 billion people. the upward trend caused some alarm as governments struggle to keep up with rising birth rates. the report projects the world's population could reach 8.5 billion by 2020. still ahead on "morning joe" more on the growing concern among world leaders after a russian-made missile killed two people in poland. we'll talk about what it could mean for america's allies amid the ongoing war in ukraine. joined by a member of the european parliament as well as the atlantic council's ian brzezinski and former cia officer mark pol polyoplis. and joined by the dnc chair jaime harrison discussing the democratic party's response. you're watching "morning joe." much more ahead. we'll be right back.

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in a town about 15 miles from the polish border. joining us now, seener fellow, secretary of defense for nato policy and a former nato officer, nbc news security and intelligence analyst and poland the former foreign minister and minister of defense is with us. a member of the european parliament, and chair of a delegation from the parliament that meets regularly with its counterparts in the house of representatives. gentlemen, good morning to you all. mr. foreign minister, let me begin with you. we heard from the president moments ago saying he believes this is an unfortunate accident and not an intentional attack. does that line up with what you're hearing? >> we agree with our compatriot but of course are relieved this doesn't appear to be a deliberate act, but let's remember the real story.

which is the russians have carried out a massive bombardment of ukrainian cities in order to freeze and destroy electricity over kraine and that's actually a war crime. we have received collateral damage, but the fault of this lies with the aggressive, which is the russian federation. >> ian brzezinski, former russian ambassador, michael mcfaul, saying this morning his colleagues in kyiv described putin's barrage of missile attacks largest invasion since putin lost thin invasion. i wish it would get more attention in the west press. we'll see if that's confirmed but putin stepped up his attacks, missile attacks, on civilians in ukraine. ambassador mcfaul is suggesting that the biden administration

done a very good job up to now but that the united states and its allies need to step up support of ukraine. so the momentum can continue. what say you about that? >> good morning, joe. good morning, mika. mike mcfaul is absolutely right. look, this attack yesterday underscores the indiscriminate brutality of the russian invasion but also the uncontrollable, unpredictable nature of war. so, therefore, we have to address this directly. you know, this tragedy yesterday, the death of two incident polish farmers, was a direct consequence as the foreign minister says of russia's massive barrage against ukrainian infrastructure, against ukraine's civilian population yesterday. it was a barrage that was putin's response to president zelenskyy rollout of a peace process to bring the war to an end. so we do have a requirement to respond to this, this incident,

this crisis, this tragedy, with a real demonstrable demonstration of resolve and it's got to be tangible. at a minimum, a real escalation of economic sanctions against russia. we need to increase the flow and the quality of weapons to ukraine, including air missile defense systems, and i think that at this point in the war now that it has expanded beyond ukraine's borders, there's needs to be serious consideration by the west to deploy in western ukraine air and missile defenses. manned by coalition of the willing, if not nato. this would help enhance security of the ukrainian population. also help mitigate the risks posed by this conflict to putin's neighbors. pulledened, excuse me, ukraine's neighbors. poland, slovakia, hungary, romania and in no way threatens to russian forces because they're defensive systems deployed in uncontested areas of ukraine but enhance security in

the region and demonstrate to the russians we are serious about our commit to help ukraine defend itself. >> mark polyopolis, president zelenskyy yesterday got out front of this too far saying it was a russian attack on poland. a strike against nato. nato must respond. looks like now it was accidental from ukraine's own defense forces. richard haass saying never made sense if they would attack why do it in that way? the larger point, the reason the air defense missiles exist in western part of ukraine is because russia is attacking targets that deep in the country, civilian targets, infrastructure. what do you learn and glean from what we saw in the last 24 hours? >> well, i think, you know, first and foremost, tip of the hat to my old colleagues in the intelligence community. this was seen a few, 24 hours

ago, a serious crisis situation, was this an attack? discern things like signal, communications intercepts from russian commanders point of origin where it came from. seems to be the conclusion an errand ukraine system. exactly what the intelligence community is designed to do. also don't forget only several days ago cia director bill burns was meeting with his russian counterpart, sdr chairman. exactly right end of the day this happened because of a massive barrage of cruise missiles killing innocent ukrainians hitting infrastructure targets. what i hope the meetings today amongst nato members are going to address, what more can we do? go back to the notion of attack of missiles.

long-range missiles that could hit targets inside russia. point of origin of these missile strikes. you can argue defensive in nature. i hope that's the way we go in the next 24 to 48 hours. >> mr. foreign minister, let me ask you, from the poles point of view. the poles have been extraordinary allies, extraordinary to the ukrainians allowing some refugees into their country. you all personally have yourself. i'm curious. answer that question that right now is being asked. what more needs to be done by the west? what more needs to be done by the united states? needs to be done by nato? not only to help the ukrainians but also to protect our polish brothers and sisters? >> well, the ukrainian state has to be kept afloat. macro economic assistance is needed. clearly ukraine needs capable western anti-aircraft

anti-missile systems, supplies and howitzer, and also for the sake of ukraine we need to protect their logistical hub in poland around a couple of factories there, but it's clearly not enough. the russians regularly miss their targets, and if western aid is to continue to flow through poland to ukraine then needs to be protected more vigorously. >> what do you think, mr. foreign minister, about the idea of possibly getting a coalition of the willing to put up, in the western portion of ukraine, air defense systems, manned by whether it's nato or a coalition of the willing, but manned by those who want to help protect, not only ukraine but protect poland and also nato members on the border of ukraine?

>> it's an interesting idea that should be examined. i think it would be preferable to give those systems to the ukrainians to use, to be used by them on that sovereign territory, because, remember, we don't want a direct confrontation with russia, between russia and nato. i don't think there would be consensus inside the alliance to do that. ukrainians are learning to operate our systems, so just quickly. they're finding clever ways of using them and which's is why they're under a counteroffensive. i trust ukrainians to protect themselves. >> ian, talking about the challenges ahead in terms of especially the morale of the ukrainian people jp i know you get dispatches from all over the country, you lived there a few years, and this is now heading into some really cold months. >> well, we're hitting an inflection point here in this war, and underscored by the tremendous victory the ukrainian had in retaking the west bank of

kherson. this is an important geographic, it's important military, important psychological victory. it underscores how the win winds in ukraine sails, but an inflection point. what we do next with assistance determines whether or not this war comes to a more swift end, or becomes a protracted stalemate. with all instability and risks that come with protracted war as we experienced just yesterday. so in short, you know, if the west hesitates, limits its globe assistance, doesn't increase the flow of assistance, we could end up with latter scenario. a long, protracted conflict in the heart of europe with all the risks. if we ramp up assistance ath the way we talked about, give them more weapons, more capable weapons, more weapons with more reach, more mobility, aircraft, tanks and armored personnel

carriers, enhanced maneuvered warfare, this through ukrainian tenacity and courage, battle expertise, could come to an end on ukrainian terms by later this spring or the summer. but that means we have to act now and act with decisiveness. >> the atlantic councils ian brzezinski, marc polyopolis and the foreign minister, thank you for being on the show. appreciate it. coming up, joined by senator catherine cortez masto, whose win in nevada secured control of the senate for the democrats, and speaking of the senate, today the chamber will take the first step to protect same-sex marriage into federal law. we'll tell you which group surprised many by supporting the bill. >> shocked me. also ahead, nbc's tom winter with us to break down what's happening in the criminal trial against the trump organization. "morning joe" continues in just a moment.

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52 past the hour. the senate today is expected to hold the first bill for same-sex marriage. it's unclear which ten republicans will vote to move the bill forward, however the bipartisan group of senators that crafted the legislation say they are confident it will pass. in a surprising move, the church jesus christ latter day saints announced church doctrine would continue to consider same-sex marriages a sin. they said we believe this approach is a way forward. as we work together to preserve

the principles and practices of religious freedom together with the rights of lgbtq individuals, much can be done to heal relationships and foster. nbc's jacob soboroff has details on taylor swift fans. >> i am not getting tickets. >> thank god i requested the entire day off to get taylor swift tickets. >> ticketmaster started glitching as early as 9:00. >> i have not experienced anything like this before. we have been waiting all day. >> frustration immediately filled feeds online. one twitter user saying in part, me, trying to figure out how

ticketmaster was not prepared for the demand. it had a new verified fan system, and then when the big moment came, ticketmaster's system crashed. one mother and daughter were next in line to score tickets in pittsburgh, and then -- >> it put us back to 2,000 plus. >> ticket sales for 2022, up 37% compared to 2019 prepandemic. in a statement the company saying there was unprecedented demand with millions showing up to buy tickets. the frustrations over prices, availability and access came swiftly. the ticketmaster fees, about $50 on top of the ticket price. >> that's a lot of extra money

on top of what you are paying. >> after five hours in the queue, success for ely. >> people are jumping at the chance to get to see her after five years. >> even for this family, patience paid off. >> we looked at each other and thought, oh, my gosh, we're in and we're doing this. >> jacob soboroff reporting there. mika, obviously heavy demand for this and heavy pressure on me to come up with tickets at my kids, and may 26th at metlife stadium. if you didn't want to wait on line, perhaps you jumped over to stub hub to see how that was going -- well, take out a small home loan. >> first of all, are you a

swifty? >> yes, we love her in our house. yes. >> don't understand how ticketmaster could have at least predicted the demand would be huge and then they are charging $50 more, and i suggest they give everybody that money back for the nightmare. >> yeah, just not enough dates on the calendar to satisfy taylor swift fans. donald trump launched a new campaign for president last night. and plus, we will be joined by the head of the dnc, jamie harrison. "morning joe" will be right back.

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well, anybody can run. i think the world has changed

considerably, and just in recent weeks. i will support the republican nominee, but i don't know that it will be him. >> listen, i think we accomplished a lot of positive when donald trump was president, and if he's the nominee i will support him, and if he chooses to run there will be a process. >> the republicans have a batch of leaders and we will wait to see which ones will get into the election and people will make a choice for themselves. >> reaction from top republican lawmakers saying trump's 2024 announcement will not instantly clear the field of potential primary challengers. welcome back to "morning joe." it's november 16th, and we have former nbc host, chris matthews

with us. >> good to have you here. obviously former host of "hardball," and you worked for speaker of the house, tip o'neal, and in that capacity, you had to know how they count votes inside the house. now, kevin mccarthy, this morning's "wall street journal," kevin mccarthy on the front, yeah, he may have won the caucus, but doesn't look like he's anywhere close to 218 votes. how does that turn out for mccarthy? >> he will have to do what pelosi did all these years, and that's work with the squad. she had on the left in her fringe, and there's a quality of finesse there, where she would give them a break and let them hold up the infrastructure bill for a while, and then they let that bill pass, and maybe it's about a mother of having five

kids. maybe it's about having a lot of brothers, but she has an amazing ability to finesse, and to work one group, to keep them happy and at the same time not give away the store. >> have you seen any hint that kevin mccarthy possesses that level of political finesse? >> what a great question. not at all. not at all. he seems shaken by events all the time. >> right. >> i just don't think he has that quality of calmness that she has. it's amazing -- i think pelosi is an amazing person. when you are with her sometimes with her family, she seems like a regular person, a grandmother, living a civilian life, and then here she is at 80 running the legislative branch effectively, and only losing a few seats. what an effective campaign it was for mid year for her. >> what will a terrible time for her as well. >> and here is mccarthy, by the

way, back in 2015 when he lost the speaker's race. we've been here before. >> we have been going through this campaign and talking to a lot of members, but the one thing i always said, to earn this majority we are servants and we should put this conference first, and i think there should be something to be said to unite, we need a fresh face, and i will stay on as majority leader, and one thing i found out by talking to everybody, if we are going to unite and be strong, we need a new face to do that. >> it's going to be hard to figure out how he gets the speakership, but we will see. i want to talk about donald trump's announcement last night, because your good friend, doris goodwin was on earlier, and she talked about how negative that speech was. one of the defining elections of your youth was jfk's run for the

presidency in 1960, and mine was reagan in 1980, and again in '84, and barack obama, for many people, is hope and change. and donald trump has gone from american carnage to something worse, and talking about how much he hates this country and how he hates where this country is right now. he has a lot of american flags, and all he does is run down america and run down america's military and law enforcement officers and the fbi, and everything about america. how in the world can somebody who either hates america so much or only hates america, i guess, when he's not in power, ever gain the support of republicans or independents. >> kennedy ran on let's get this country moving again, and he had

a great sense of the country slowing down after world war ii, and he was one of the young sailors coming back, the lead, and then reagan had this positive attitude, it's going to be better the minute i am in office, and this speech last night reminded me of a guy closing a mortgage, he came in with a grievance, and the people paying the bills to get in mar-a-lago, he was angry at everybody because they let him down. if i was in a republican nominating press, this guy could win the nomination because the anger of the average republican is there to be expanded on. trump will exploit that anger. he's the angriest guy in the world, trump. he's so angry about everything going wrong and he's angry at

his own people for failing him. i have never seen a guy that walked in the room and looked angry, and then gave this speech. where was the life in it? where is the hope and happiness? where is he going to take us? he's going to take us to vengeance. he wants to get even. it's a frightening prospect, but i will tell you, the forgotten men and women, they are there and they are angry and still forgotten and trump is their guy. i think he will be a formidable opponent for desantis or christie or anybody that challenges him? >> no doubt about it. one organization that is not standing by him is the new york post. this is the bottom of "the posts" this morning, and it says florida man makes announcement, see page 26. >> they can do that but can't stick to that. >> they made their statement. let me ask about some of the

people we just heard, ted cruz said let's see what happens, and lindsey graham was watching that speech and tweeting, boy, this is an effective speech and if he can stay like this, he will be hard to beat. and you hear the usual suspects fall in line saying i'm there if he needs me. do you think it's overstated they are trying to put donald trump in the rear view mirror inside the party? >> yeah, and the new book about the stolen coverage, and cruz covered himself. i have to talk about joe biden. i always thought joe biden was trying to calculate whether to run again based upon trump's move, and trump made the first move and biden has to look at two years of being attacked at

every gaffe he makes, and trump is keeping count of all of the mistakes. you saw it last night. and six years from now, mika, is he going to handle the polish situation with the same way he did, carefully, skipping a dinner. the amount of calculation that could come into one of our confrontations with xi or putin, or whoever comes later, and i wonder if he's thinking he can take that six-year commitment now as well as the two-year fight with trump. it's a hell of a fight to look at on both fronts. >> and then writing about trump's announcement in a piece simply titled "no." it reads in part this, a bruised donald trump announced a new presidential bid on tuesday

night, an invitation to double down on the outrages and failures of the last several years that republicans should reject without hesitation or doubt. trump's success and imposing his fixations and candidate choices on the gop played a large role in the gop debacle in the midterms. certainly gop voters should give up on the idea that he's a winner, and it's too early to know what the rest of the field will look like, but it will offer better alternatives than trump, and trump's invitation to remain personally beholden to him and has cracked obsessions for at least another two years with all the chaos it entails and the very real possibility of a highly consequential defeat should be a firm unmistakable no. joe? >> well, the national review, of

course, began in the spring of 2016 with a never trump issue. when trump won, their editorial stand shifts. there were still people that were opposed to president donald trump, but like many conservative outlets, they began to master the anti-trump approach, and were anti- anti-trump. would not strike out so much about trump, but would strike out against people striking out against trump. i guess they had to do it. this is a shift back and they have done this for a few months, but this is a shift back to them going back into a never trump position, but a never trump position because donald trump just loses. again, he's the first president since herbert hoover to lose the

house, the senate and the white house in one term. >> my lord. >> the 2022 disaster should have every conservative, every republican saying no. and anybody not blaming trump for this loss is not firmly connected to reality, and i guess they want trump to continue to lose than they want conservatives and republicans win again. and one person clear-eyed about what happened and not making excuses, mitch mcconnell. this is what he said yesterday. >> would you agree your decision not to have an agenda to run on opened up for republican candidates attacks that they didn't stand for anything -- >> every one of our candidates

knew what they were for and expressed it quite clearly. it's pretty obvious, and all of you have been writing about it, what happened. we under performed among independents and moderates because their impression of many of the people in our party and leadership roles is they are involved in chaos, negativity, and excessive attacks and it frightened independent and moderate republican voters, and we saw that, which is why you all recall i never predicted a red wave. we never saw that in any of our poling in the states we were counting on to win. there was no wave. we had national issues set that was favorable, but as a result of our own perception that many of them had that we were not dealing with issues in a

responsible way and we were spending too much time on negativity and attacks and chaos, they were frightened, so they pulled back. we -- in two states, for example -- excuse me. in two states, for example, just crushed by independent voters, arizona and new hampshire. we learned lessons about this, and i think the lessons are pretty clear. senate races are different, and candidate quality, as you recall i said in august, is important. in most of our states, we have met that test and a few of them we did not. >> so chris matthews, he followed that up, his office did, and said if you like republicans losing senate campaigns, you will love rick scott's campaign for leader.

and richard burr, another republican said, it will be a chance for him to crash and burn for the second time this year. >> that was a great rendition of the truth by mitch mcconnell. he can't do better than that in the assessment last tuesday. we talk about the big we, including the conservatives and moderates and liberals who they trump should not run again, and we talk about if biden should run again or not, and these two people are ego driven, and i think of trump as the guy at the steering wheel, and the secret service trying to drive one way and he's trying to pull the car the other way. it doesn't matter what all of us think, if donald trump runs he will be the angriest guy there, vindictive as hell, and joe biden is not going to listen to

any of us, except for jill, his wife, because when he ran for the senate in 1972 he didn't have a prayer. he ran against a three-term governor and a couple years as senator, and he beat the guy. biden is a good guy, a very good guy, and he's fighting hard for this country but he has to make this decision himself, and i think he's going to run again. i think trump is going to run. and trump is going to end up going head to head with joe biden. after all of this fodder of last week and all the surprises and good news, we will see a rerun. that's where we are headed. >> okay chris matthews, all good to have you on. thank you very much. democrats held on to control in the senate. that was the big historic news, and thanks in part to katherine cortez masto.

nevada's incumbent democratic senator that defeated her far right election-denial opponent, adam laxalt. >> i am so grateful for every volunteer who knocked on doors and made phone calls and wrote post cards and letters and had the courage to publicly stand up and fight for our state. yep. listen to all nevadans, whether you voted for me or not, i will always fight for you, always. >> and senator cortez masto joins us now. congratulations. thank you for being on. the race was close until the end, but i am curious, what were the issues you focused on in the

weeks and days leading up to the election? >> good morning. it's great to join all of you. first of all, the kitchen table issues, always, that's what i hear from nevadans, but it was the reveal of roe v. wade, because nevada is a proud pro choice state by voter referendum. and it was january 6th. i remember the last couple of months campaigning, i was with republicans who stood with me and we did a press conference talking about the big lie and that i had an opponent that was the face of it in nevada, peddling conspiracy theories and lies about a stolen election, which our courts proved wrong and our republican secretary of state proved wrong, but they connected the dots, and they connected the dots between that false allegation and the mob. that type of conversation, those allegations fueled the mob on january 6th. you know, i was here. i lived it, january 6th, but you

could not underestimate what i was hearing from nevadans that actually watched it on tv and the emotional impact it had for so many nevadans i talked to were watching it real time and seeing what was going on. there was a combination of things, but those are what i was hearing from nevadans all across the state. >> so senator, i kept hearing -- you heard that from nevadans, and i heard from pundits -- oh, nevada's gone for democrats, and same thing i heard about harry reid in 2010, he's not holding on. and i said this year, there's something about nevada. democrats always figure out how to hold on against all odds, and i will be darned if you didn't do it again. what is it about your operation?

what is it about the late senator's operation that always seems to come through in the end for democrats even against the biggest odds? >> a couple things. i think one, as a candidate running for office, you don't take any voters for granted and you show up and follow-up. i was everywhere, and as a senator i was everywhere, not just in our urban areas, but our rural areas that are rural red, and talking to voters and talking to people about what we need to do together, and following up and making sure the legislation we worked on really had an impact and brought resources to the state of nevada. wildfires, drought, those are things that many nevadans deal with every single day, and they are thinking about. the bipartisan infrastructure package and inflation reduction act, those are things that i was able to put resources in there to address those issues. reduction of health care costs, right, prescription drug negotiation. that was the number one thing i

heard when i first ran for senate, about their need to lower costs around prediction drug medication. they knew if i went to washington as the former attorney general that i would prosecute the case and get it done and we would figure out a way to negotiate, and i did, and we got to go back to the state and talk about how we lowered health care costs and energy cost, and yes, there's still work to be done. we know it because we're a state in the height of the pandemic, we had 30% unemployment and las vegas strip was shutdown, and anybody there was taking pictures of that, because that's unheard of, and that is making history, and then we are working together on bringing more resources, and protecting the rights of women and making sure we are protecting our democracy. nevada is a state that wants

people to vote, protects the right of people to vote, you can vote by mail, and vote in spanish, english or tau golly, because we have a large filipino community. and then when you hear them talking about how they want to change it, and nevadans are going to stand up and take notice and they did. i was hearing from so many people across the state, and didn't matter if you were a republican or democrat, man or woman, these were the issues i was hearing from nevadans that they cared about. >> senator, good morning. in many ways what you laid out is a snapshot of what happened across the country, and there are many districts and governor's races where the possibility of a election denier

winning and becoming into a position of power was right there and was denied in the swing race. take your race and broaden it out a little bit. what statement do you think the voters made last tuesday? >> a couple things. nevada is beautifully diversed, and if you are a presidential candidate and can win in nevada, you have a message that can resonate across the country. you can't parachute in and think you can get a sense of what is happening there because it's so diverse. here's what i do know, and i don't agree with mitch on many things, but he was right. he was right because there were so many people that were paying attention to all of the things that i talked about. a third of our voters in nevada were nonpartisans, and that increased. when i first ran for the senate that was 20%. it turned out to be almost 30%. many voters were looking for

candidates that were focused on solving problems, and working together, getting away from the chaos and the craziness and the fearmongering, and how we move forward and leave nobody behind. that was the message resonating throughout the state of nevada that i was hearing from nevadans. i knew it was a powerful message to bring forward. >> senator cortex masto who locked up the control for the democrats in congress. >> thank you. and allen weisselberg took the witness stand yesterday for the first time to testify against his former employer. he told jurors hearing the criminal tax fraud case against the company, that donald trump had been aware of the unusual pay structure for high level employees. let's bring in nbc news investigations correspondent, tom winter. good morning. bring us up to speed of what is going on here. we will remind people, allen

weisselberg, very close to donald trump, and he is now testifying against the organization. >> yeah, he was anyone to get an apartment in the city so he could be closer to the trump organization, and would allow him to work hours he was working every day, and he would work approximately at 8:00 a.m. until the evening. he's the chief financial officer, and the way he described it in court yesterday clearly for the jury, i was there, and he over saw the controllers office, and the weekly reports that went to the former president himself, the detailed look, and this is where we have the cash and this is what account it's in and this is the money moving back and forth, and he had clarity of what was going on in his corporation, what trump was essentially lording over.

he's close to the trump organization, and the key thing they were able to get, and he's not done being questioned from the d.a.'s office, but he knew not only what he was doing was wrong, getting the benefits and not paying taxes, but more critically for the case they are building against the trump organization, the trump organization benefited by this because they did not have to pay certain income tax, and they did not have to pay certain things they were required to do, and more importantly, if weisselberg was to get compensated to overcome the types of payments weisselberg would have to say, the trump would have to double his salary in compensation. the key part is the trump organization and weisselberg benefited where weisselberg did not have to pay the taxes. >> does this touch donald trump himself? does this get him in any kind of

trouble? we know eric trump and don junior may testify. >> one, eric trump's involvement comes into play in 2017 after donald trump became president, because at that point he put his companies into a irrevocable trust, and eric was guiding the ship financially at that point for the organization, and that's the touch there on eric trump. and don junior's name came up in court because he was certainly involved with the organization. as far as the former president, his name was mentioned because the company was named after him, or his father, and the key part of this yesterday is whether or not -- this is the thing weisselberg has been steadfast in not cooperating on and said he will not cooperate on is implicate trump in any sort of illegality here, for instance, the former president said don't pay the taxes on that, and

there's no indication from his testimony there. he will be back on the stand tomorrow and there's no trial today, and whether or not that comes up or whether prosecutors try and tie him to it, but a this point there is no indication they will be able to get that, because if so allen weissenburg would have given it up already. and then next on "morning joe," nato said the missile strike in poland was probably caused by ukraine defending itself against russia. we will get expert analysis from admiral james tabris. plus, ron desantis appears to shrug off recent attacks from former president donald trump. we will hear what he had to say. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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u.s. and europen officials say a ukrainian air defense system was likely involved in the strike in poland that is believed to be accidental. the polish government said two people were killed in the explosion. in a statement this morning, poland's president said, quote, there's no indication this was an intentional attack on poland. most likely it was a russian-made rocket. there are many indications it was an air defense missile, which, unfortunately, fell on polish territory. belgium's defense ministry said today that it appeared parts of russian missiles along with a ukrainian interception missile landed in the neighboring country, and he added the investigation is ongoing and nothing has been confirmed. russia denied responsibility for

the strike. let's bring in the president of the foreign relations, and also bring in commander james stavridis. >> admiral, we were on the phone last night and trying to figure out what was going on. the news that came, as nato commander, a guy that understands the need to coordinate, and there's official fear after the news broke that some of our allies might get in front of each other. they stood shoulder to shoulder and measured their words, and let the united states know that we would be moving forward together in whatever response. this is -- again, it sounds like this was an inadvertent mistake, but certainly a good test, was it not, in case there are the

ratcheting up of tensions in the future? >> absolutely a good point. you know, in the military we say the first report is always wrong. it's not always wrong, but it's a pretty good way to bet. yesterday there was a lot of speculation, i think, most of us were saying, hey, let's wait and see what the facts are here. could it have been a deliberate attack? that looks unlikely. you are not going to start a war with nato hitting a couple missiles in a field in poland. it's -- could it have been a russian missile that went stupid and was programmed incorrectly? looks like we are circling in it was the ukrainians using a

missile air defense system. that makes sense to me as i look at the field here. bottom line, the tension now shifts to warsaw where we will hear the results of the investigation, i think quite clearly in the next few hours, into brussels where article 4 of the nato treaty -- not article 5, and that's the famous one, an attack on one is an attack on all, and article 4 is let's get together and consult, and that's what the president said last night that the ambassadors would be getting together, and this is the body that will get together, and they will have this conversation. i think they will talk about

potentially increasing air defense for ukraine, and i will finish here, joe, really, what we ought to focus on, assuming this does turn out to be ukrainian air defense, is the fact that russia is launching hundreds of missile strikes against critical infrastructure, electricity, heating and all of that. another word for that is war crimes. we ought to be giving the ukrainians more ability to defend themselves in the future. >> such an important point. if this was a missile defense system, and just a couple minutes ago, richard, the poland president called it an unfortunate accident. >> if you are going to do an

intentional attack if you are russia, and risk taking on nato, and russia can't defeat ukraine and why in the world would they take on nato? it makes zero sense. yeah, there was no way i thought it could be an intentional russian attack. i think the pols looked studied, and it looked like they wanted it to be something more, and that's unfortunate and that won't help their credibility. the only other lesson i would take from this, is anytime you have a hot war, stuff happens, and the danger of escalation is implicit, and it's the reason you don't want to fly off the handle. when stuff happens, just get the facts and make sure you are responding to something that was

actual and intentional, and no escalation here, so there's a little lesson when something hot is going on. >> if it was obvious to you and others, and the president of the united states said this was probably not a russian attack on nato, and why did ukrainian officials get so far out there saying it was. >> you are on thin ice whenever you ascribe motives, but they were looking for a more western response, and they are fighting the war alone, and if they could bring in partners more indirectly has been a ukrainian goal from the get go. it doesn't surprise me, but i don't think it serves their purposes, because it will reinforce the sense there's a gap between ukrainian interests, and i don't think that's something ukrainians want to open up, and that gets into the

war determination goals and so forth. it would also be wise if they learned a lesson from this, and they don't want to be the cheerleaders of a greater western effort and they should want this war to come to an end. coming up, jaime harrison is standing by, and we will talk about the strong showing by democrats last week, and what it means for the next presidential election. "morning joe" is back in a moment. there's a different way to treat hiv. it's every-other-month, injectable cabenuva. for adults who are undetectable, cabenuva is the only complete, long-acting hiv treatment you can get every other month. cabenuva helps keep me undetectable. it's two injections, given by my healthcare provider, every other month. it's one less thing to think about while traveling. hiv pills aren't on my mind. a quick change in my plans is no big deal. don't receive cabenuva if you're allergic to its ingredients or taking certain medicines,

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and now the announcement the former president would have made if he could take a damn hint. >> we have a very important announcement tonight. i am running away forever and never going to come back. i will immediately be forgotten.

nobody will come to my funeral. i think i will tell my son, eric, that i have been abducted by space force. i have always been a no good, rotten, disgusting, and so good-bye, and god bless the united states. >> coming up, npr framed it this way. quote, donald trump who tried to overthrow the results of the 2020 presidential election, and inspired a deadly riot at the capitol in a desperate attempt to keep himself in power, has filed to run for president again in 2024. >> happy days. happy days. >> and i am not sure who showed up for that. that's straight ahead on "morning joe." rican dream... and not the american goal? announcer: derek jeter ...or plan? maybe...

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you might have heard yesterday that donald trump announced another run for president. >> again. >> yeah. >> why would he do that? >> it was late at night. >> because he keeps losing. >> ahead of trump's announcement florida governor ron desantis -- >> this is like when tampa bay went 0-14 and they asked for another game. remember that? i love that. they started 0-14. if you were 0-14, would you say can we play three more games? that's what trump's doing now. >> i might humbling leave the stage. >> desantis responded to some comments that president trump made about him, desanctimonious.

take a listen. >> we focussed on results and leadership. at the end of the day i would tell people to check out the scoreboard from last tuesday night. >> oh, george conway, you have a new opinion piece in the "washington post" entitled trump is out from vengeance and you write a big reason trump announced his run is he fears criminal prosecution. he's a desperate man, a threatened and rabid animal who could face multiple indictments, the stolen classified documents, georgia, over the next year. he thinks running for president and the violence from his fringy supports will protect him from the prosecutors. as senator mitch mcconnell said, trump was determined to torch our institutions on the way out

in january of 2021 merely because he lost an election. just imagine what trump would do to stay out of jail. in the announcement that trump made it's important to note that his daughter, who was a big part of the campaign, he always enjoyed bringing her on stage and engaging her in the political process, she said she loves her dad, but she's out of politics. she's not doing this. >> she's getting out of politics. we quoted matt gaetz before -- here's what ivanka said. >> this time i'm choosing to prioritize my young children. i do not plan to be involved in politics. while i'll always love and support my father, i will do so outside the political arena. >> outside the political arena. we've heard the same thing with jared also. george conway, it's interesting, no politicians lining up to kiss

the ring. even matt gaetz -- >> who was there? >> he was going to fly down for it and then announced he couldn't come because of weather. i checked my weather app. it looked pretty good, but he didn't make the flight. this is a wounded, wounded politician, isn't it? >> he is. he absolutely is. he does not carry the weight he once carried. they're clearly not as afraid of him as they once were. they clearly don't want to kiss the ring in the way they once did. the problem is he's still there and he still has a chunk of the party, the rank and file members of the party who are almost cultishly in support of him. you know, he's going to take -- he'll burn the house down before he lets anybody else take the nomination from him. if somebody is going to

challenge him, and i think it has to be a one-on-one challenge, if it's a multi-candidate race he'll win it with 30 or 40% of the vote. the republican party has a problem. they have to fight trump or watch him self-destruct. they're going to be in the blast radius. it's just a terrible, terrible choice that the republican party faces. >> he's also, george, under investigation. part of this, he thinks, is to protect himself from prosecution. he has a couple federal probes, the fulton county, georgia, probe, everything going on in new york, there's a lot swirling around him where he could be directly implicated. from your legal perspective, does this protect him from any of that? >> absolutely not. it's blackmail. it's a threat. it's a threat of violence, trying to deter prosecutors by

threatening this. he's done that a number of times. if something like that happens, he would say these are the things that happen when bad people do bad things to me. he wants that to happen. that's why, in part, he's running. it's dangerous. it's just a dangerous thing. coming up, one of our next guests is calling on president biden to send more weapons to ukraine. michael mcfall served as u.s. ambassador to russia and he joins us to talk about the major developments in the war. "morning joe" is coming right back. r. "morning joe" is coming right back ♪limu emu & doug♪ it's nice to unwind after a long week of telling people

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♪♪ live look at l.a. welcome back to the fourth hour of "morning joe." it is 6:00 a.m. on the west coast, 9:00 a.m. on the east coast. this hour we're f