♪♪ live look at l.a. welcome back to the fourth hour of "morning joe." it is 6:00 a.m. on the west coast, 9:00 a.m. on the east coast. this hour we're following new

reporting from eastern europe where the president of poland says the deadly blast in his country was likely caused by a ukrainian defense missile and that there is no indication it was intentional. we'll have the very latest and speak with former u.s. ambassador michael mcfaul and barry mccaffrey about what this says about the high tensions in the region. >> michael mcfaul is going to tell us what he thinks the united states and nato needs to do. first the political news that came out of south florida. >> is this where "the new york post" said florida man makes announcement? >> yeah. willie, big spread on donald trump in the first page? >> no. as you see, i had to fold it

over. florida man makes announcement, see page 26 for more. that is "the new york post." >> anybody that knows what trump's reading habits are, it's the new york post, "the new york times," "daily news" and some morning shows that he hate watches still his people tell me. >> amid multiple legal woes, former president trump announced a third bid for the white house just a week after he led his party to disappointing results in the midterm elections. garrett haig has more. >> reporter: donald trump announcing the white house run he's hinting at ever since his 2020 election defeat. >> in order to make america great and glorious again, i'm announcing my candidacy for president of the united states. >> reporter: the former president impeached twice,

including for his role in the january 6th insurrection placing himself at the head of a movement to take power back for his supporters. >> this is our country, our government. >> reporter: rolling out a second term platform that included rolling back covid mandates, implementing nationwide voter i.d. laws and attacking president biden over issues. >> in two years the biden administration has destroyed the u.s. economy. >> reporter: biden firing back with a twitter video overnight. >> you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides. >> reporter: now at the center of multiple investigations mr. trump said a weaponized justice system is the greatest threat to the u.s. >> we must conduct a top to bottom overhaul to clean out the festering rot and corruption of washington, d.c. i'm a victim, i will tell you. i'm a victim. >> reporter: mr. trump's third campaign for the white house

begins at a moment of political weakness, with many in his own party blaming him for republicans' tepid midterm performance. >> we underperformed among independents and moderates because their impression of many of the people in our party and leadership roles is they're involved in chaos, negativity, excessive attacks. >> reporter: republicans have pointed to the losses by candidates who followed mr. trump's model of casting doubt on the 2020 elections and were worried he would drag the issue back into the spotlight. last night mr. trump did not dwell on the past election. perhaps mr. trump's chief rival, governor desantis, shrugging off mr. trump's attacks. >> i would tell people to check out the scoreboard from last tuesday. >> the facts don't play out in donald trump's favor at all.

you look at ron desantis, look at the incredible success he had in the state of florida and he swept republicans to victories in races even in county commission races where there were unknowns who thought they had no chance of winning that were swept to victory. desantis created a red wave. it was one of the few places there was a red wave. donald trump, we've been showing the graphic all morning. here's who donald trump endorsed in some of these races that lost. in the senate of course those four high profile races. donald trump cost republicans, once again, the senate majority and in the house, look at those house members who talked so much about the senate. kevin mccarthy and the republican party's -- well, their likelihood of success in the house, getting anything done -- because so many of donald trump candidates that he supported and pushed up there

lost. same thing for the governors. it's been an absolutely -- >> it was terrible. >> -- terrible, deplorable time for donald trump's candidates. mitch mcconnell pointed out how much donald trump damaged this party. willie, i wanted to read -- i think it's important that donald trump doesn't blow past what's happened. i want to read the lead and concluding paragraph of this article in the "washington post" about the announcement last night. donald trump, the twice impeached former president who inspired a failed attempt to overtake the 2020 election officially declared on tuesday night he's running to retake the white house in 2024.

then here's the summation of what donald trump has done to american politics. as mitch mcconnell said, just scared the hell out of independents and moderate republicans and he's altered the tenor of republican life with often shocking attacks on political rivals and reporters. he's made anti-semitic remarks, insulted people with disabilities, praised dictators, inspired his supporters to resort to violence and defended white supremacists and january 6th rioters. by the way, willie, that used to be just the media reporting that out. republicans are now starting to admit that. they're starting to come

face-to-face with what this action, what his activities caused the republican party. i think that's why we're starting to see independents, moderates turn away from trumpists and election deniers. >> voters eight days ago made a big statement about trumpism. they didn't want to see it anymore. independents, some republicans, young voters made that statement. they didn't want to see the chaos anymore, the extremism, the election denialism. we got word from axios that steven schwartzman the ceo of blackstone, a long-time supporter of donald trump, stood with him, is walking away. >> really? >> he said it's time to move on. we don't need an election about yesterday. we need a election about tomorrow. he won't be standing by donald

trump. it's voters, donors. potentially herschel walker, hand picked by donald trump, we'll see what happens in the runoff, that would be another donald trump candidate a loser. let's go to the site of the announcement in palm beach, florida. vaughn hillyard is there. he was in the room last night. vaughn, what was it like to be there? who was in the room? was there the energy donald trump hoped would be around this announcement? >> reporter: usually if you or i threw a party, you invite your friends and family. that was striking last night. it didn't feel like a presidential announcement. not only was ivanka donald trump and don jr. not there, there was obvious absence of mike pence,

kellyann conway, ron mcdaniel, the people we're used to seeing at trump events. those figures were not there. there was not a single u.s. senator at that event. there were two members of congress. madison cawthorn who is on his way out and troy nails the congressman out of texas. those were the only elected republicans who made their way down to mar-a-lago for the announcement of their former president. it was a different feeling in the room. donald trump has a history of trying to play mental jujitsu. his quote was our nation was at the pinnacle of power, prestige, vanquishing all enemies when i

was the president. i wouldn't say that matched the description on stage. in his 2022 speeches he stood alongside his candidates, but the voters didn't vote for these republicans around the country. he suggested that citizens will very soon see i have no doubt by 2024 it will be much worse and they'll see more clearly what happened and what is happening. republicans thought they had the issues on their side from inflation, the migrants at the border to joe biden's approval ratings, yet it was not bad enough for republicans to win the midterm elections. the last -- if i could, after

knowing what we know, the then president didn't call for back-up when the u.s. capitol was being attacked with his vice president and hundreds of members inside when his supporters converged, also at a time when his company is facing tax fraud charges, also he and his kids are facing a civil lawsuit that could cripple the family, all of this is happening in real time. one other note, in terms of the georgia race, i was not able to get a firm commitment from anybody in the trump orbit that donald trump intends to go and campaign for herschel walker. >> hard to imagine him staying away from that. he views herschel walker as his guy, but republicans would like him to given the lack of the magic touch he's had. you talked about who wasn't there. the people that were there were

people like pillow guy who told "the washington post" last night that they were going to melt the voting machines and turn them into prison bars for people. he's named in a $1.3 billion lawsuit by the maker of the voting machines. vaughn, what was the level of enthusiasm in the room? it read on tv listless. he was reading from the prompter. it went on for a long time. people were reportedly trying to get out the back and turned away from security and had to stay in the room. what was the vibe? >> reporter: the one other individual there was roger stone in terms of who we were watching walk down the red carpet. he was reading off the teleprompter. it was much more measured, if you will. it was -- one adviser told me expect a more buttoned-up presentation. also suggesting it would be a

more hopeful one too. ultimately about 30 minutes in he left the teleprompter and started going more on those issues talking about angela merkel, going off about killing drug dealers, a little more of the trump we're used to. they've built out their team and to what extent do they try to get out in front of the likes of youngkin or desantis? the conversations i've had suggested they could wait around a long while. donald trump has about $100 million in pack money ready to use and there's no need for them to get into a bidding war at this point when we're still 14 months out from the first early state contests. >> he's sitting on a lot of cash. vaughn hillyard live in palm

beach. thanks so much. the biden administration had a response ready to go as donald trump was announcing that third presidential campaign. here's what it posted on joe biden's twitter account. >> you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides. >> do you believe in punishment for abortion? >> there has to be some form of punishment. >> for the woman? >> yeah. >> if i win, we'll treat those people from january 6th fairly. if it requires pardons, we will give them pardons. >> jamie harrison also released a stapt calling donald trump a failure as president. he wrote trump's announcement is a kick-off of what will be a messy republican candidate. the dnc will be ready for all of them. jamie harrison joins us live now. thanks for being with us. before we start talking about

donald trump in 2024, let's pause and talk about 2022. you all outstripping expectations. i think you would even say private expectations you had to take back the senate and maybe pick up a seat there, limit the losses in the house, hold on to or take governor's mansions across the country. what is your assessment of how you did it? >> listen, willie, in politics jim clyburn is my mentor. he said, listen, you can either be a work horse or show horse. always be a work horse. that's what we've been doing at the dnc. we put $90 million on the ground. we worked with state parties, unions, civic organizations to make sure that we had the boots on the ground and the volunteers and the voter protection program to make the difference in a very close election. we always knew the election was going to be close. close elections are won on the ground.

they're not won on tv. people turn the tvs off. when you knock on the door, make phone calls, those are things that get people to the polls. that was helpful, along with young people and communities of color who were energized to support a president and paerpt party that supports them. all that together was the cake we baked. >> jamie, it's so interesting -- congratulations by the way. you talked about the 50-state strategy. i remember howard gain was talking about that. rahm emanuel obsessed about a 50-state strategy. it's just that mindset, we're not going to cede anything to anybody. it's fascinating when you're talking about a senator from

nevada, a governor from michigan or senator and governor from pennsylvania, what did they all say? we didn't give up the rural counties to anybody. we knew we wouldn't win them, but we were going to campaign in every county. we were going to do what barack obama did in places like iowa and bring down the republican numbers enough to win the entire state. that strategy worked, didn't it? >> it did work, joe. what we're going to do going into 2024 is double down on that. we put the largest amount of money into our state parties and that's not just one state party, all of the state parties. the goal is to continue to build the infrastructure so that we can win close races in these states and in some states just compete once again. you know, our party infrastructure, you and i talked about this, really fell apart. what we have done, thanks to tom perez and what we're doing at

the dnc now is rebuilding the infrastructure. we're not leaving anybody behind and we'll continue to make the investment. i have to thank joe biden for putting in money in to help us do that. >> let me ask you the tough question about a couple states that used to be swing states that democrats won under president obama. florida and ohio. tim ryan ran a great race against an uninspired, lazy opponent according to republicans i talked to in j.d. vance and still lost by six points. i don't have to tell you, everybody was swept away in the desantis tsunami. do democrats try to rebuild from the ground up in those two states? knowing that resources and workers -- do they need to be

focussed? do you look elsewhere and focus more in wisconsin, michigan, pennsylvania, nevada, arizona, georgia? >> listen, joe, i'm a bill believer that crow don't ground anybody. when you see the republican party, they see extremists to washington, d.c. and they'll have policies that impact everywhere. it's important to build an infrastructure, or rebuild an infrastructure there. think about what tim ryan did. tim has been a good friend of mine for a very long time. we tried to do everything we could to help from the dnc side because we invest on the ground. tim cut the margins. donald trump won that state by 13 points. tim cut that margin significantly. what we have to do is look at what positively -- the positive stuff that he did and continue to build on that in ohio. investing resources on the ground, working with the ohio

democrat party. same thing with florida. that's not to say we're going to take our eye off wisconsin, michigan and pennsylvania. we poured a lot of resources into those states and will in 2024. i want the folks in ohio and florida to know we're not going to leave them behind. the folks in alabama, south carolina, mississippi we're not going to leave you behind. we're going to build an infrastructure. it may take longer. instead of two years or four years it may take five or six. you have to make progress and you have to invest. >> all right. >> you know what's so fascinating -- i want to say this about tim ryan. because ryan ran such a competitive race in ohio, it required mitch mcconnell to pour tens of millions of dollars there to try to save the seat. that's money diverted from other places. there are also one or two house members that were certainly helped by tim ryan's performance. if he had lost by 13, 14 points

those members of congress likely would have swept away too, right? >> that's exactly right. look at sherry beasley as well. they poured a lot of money in those races. one of the bad things, joe, we have to figure out this dark money and super packs. our democratic candidates out raised their republican counterparts. when you get billionaires who can flood the zone with ten and 20 and $30 million, it's hard to combat and the dnc or any of these committees don't have the resources that billionaires can just write a check and not even disclose who it is. >> all right, dnc chairman jamie harrison, thank you for being on this morning. >> thank you. some of the other stories we're following, the los angeles mayor race democratic karen bass

received a bump from the latest batch of votes tallied yesterday allowing her to expand her lead against rick caruso who is also running as a democrat. with over 70% of the vote counted bass leads caruso by 5 points. >> seems to be breaking in her direction. >> it does. the winner will replace outgoing mayor eric garcetti who was tapped by president biden to become the u.s. ambassador to india. staying in california, tens of thousands of academic employees across the university of california's ten campuses walked off the job monday demanding better pay and benefits in what union leaders say could be the largest work stoppage the public university system has ever faced. the unions representing some 48,000 teaching assistants, researchers and tutors say they're teaching significant pay increases and child care

subsidies to afford the cost of living in cities such as los angeles, san diego and berkley where housing costs are soaring. university officials are calling for a third-party mediator. overseas the inflation rate in the uk reached a 41-year high in october, accelerating to 11.1%. the office for national statistics said the rate rose from 10.1% in september, putting inflation at its highest levels since october of 1981. economists had been expected a rate of 10.7%. the rise is said to be caused by higher gas, electricity and food prices. >> republicans coming out in unison after this report about inflation sky rocketing in britain saying thanks, biden. >> thanks, desantis. >> mika blames everything and

goes through the miami airport gets stickers that says thanks desantis. once again compared to other countries our inflation rate starting to go down. let's hope it continues in that direction. my god, great britain, 41-year high, inflation over 11%. it's an international problem and looks like the united states, we've made some mistakes here, but we're managing it much better than other countries. >> yeah, it's going up there. that sounds familiar. ours was 40-year high, but ours was 8.2%. the numbers last week were under 8, but still not a great number. if you believe in things moving in the right direction, let's

hope the prices are coming down for good. up next on "morning joe," the latest on the russian-made missile that crossed over into poland killing two people in nato territory. former u.s. ambassador to russia michael mcfaul and four-star general barry mccaffrey will join us. "morning joe" will be right back. my asthma felt anything but normal. ♪ ♪ it was time for a nunormal with nucala. nucala is a once-monthly add-on treatment for

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let me be clear, this is not ukraine's fault. russia bears ultimate responsibility as it continues its illegal war against ukraine. >> that is nato secretary general earlier this morning discussing what u.s. and european officials now say likely was an accidental missile strike by ukrainian forces that killed two people in poland. that blast which happened 15 miles from poland's border with

ukraine prompted a swift response from leaders around the world after initial concerns the missile was fired by russia. poland president said, quote, we have no proof at the moment it was a missile fired by the russian side. we believe it was an air defense missile which unfortunately fell on polish territory. as for ukraine, officials in kyiv maintain they have evidence pointing to russia being responsible, saying they support an investigation. joining us now former u.s. ambassador to russia michael mcfaul and retired army four-star general barry mccaffrey. gentlemen, good morning. ambassador mcfaul, i'll begin with you. we talked to a few people earlier this morning who said they would have been very surprised if this were a deliberate attack by the russians. the ukrainian government, president zelenskyy, saying we

need to look into it, we're not sure. it seems like the rest of the world saying it looks like an unfortunate accident. what's your assessment of everything you've heard here? >> well, it's good news that it's not a deliberate attack. let's be clear about that. we would be having a much more fraught conversation if the russians attacked a nato ally. second, we need a full investigation. i support the ukrainians who want to know everything that happened. if it was the case that it was a ukraine errant missile trying to shoot down a russian missile, that's tragic. it's horrible and my condolences to the polish families that lost people. i also want to be clear that it's russia's fault. let's be clear. yesterday was the largest missile assault on ukraine since the beginning of the war. over 100 missiles were rained

down on all the major cities, kyiv and lviv, the city we're talking about in western ukraine. had russia not done that we would not have this accident in poland. >> that's the point, isn't it, general mccaffrey? the reason there was an air defense station in ukraine is because russia is attacking deep into ukraine, attacking infrastructure and civilians as well. the fact remains that russia continues its assault on the civilian population of ukraine. >> no question. i think ambassador mcfaul is entirely correct. we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that this is high-intensity air/ground combat conducted by the russian military against a sovereign nation in violation of international criminal law. they have failed completely on

the battlefield. the ukrainians essentially are winning tactically in every one of their offenses. they've now turned to attacking civilian targets. that's the central point. from the start i thought this was highly improbable to have been a deliberate russian attack. the last thing putin or the russian armed forces wants is to take on a nato article v response. it would be devastating to them. i watched the video of the crater caused by what was apparently an anti-air missile, a humongous deep crater. it was another tragic incident in a war initiated by putin. >> mr. ambassador, winter is coming. what else does nato and the united states need to do together to put the ukrainians in the best possible position before the deep freeze sets in?

>> more and better weapons, more and better sanctions. momentum is on the side of the ukrainians. therefore, pedal to the metal. make this happen. this idea that somehow there's a way to settle this war, i think, is naive. mr. putin's intentions is to wait for spring to get reinforcements and to try to take the land. he had this giant ceremony in the kremlin and a big party in red square celebrating the alleged annexation of these regions, including kherson. there's no way he's going to walk away from that until he tries to take that militarily. he needs to regroup and wait for winter. we should help the ukrainians not wait. >> general, looking at the map,

the conditions on the battlefield, understanding winter is coming, what would you like to see the united states and nato do to help the ukrainians? what would be the key strategic takes you want ukraine to do before winter? >> winter, frozen, hard ground is a great time for the ukrainians. the russians are in trouble. they're under the gun. they have stupid generals. they're not responding in a sensible way. they're throwing untrained soldiers into this battle. the bottom line is the biden administration has done a terrific job in bringing nato together. i mean, the 40 nations and the contact group have been unstinting in their support. not just in military support, but also economic aid.

we have russia under stringent sanctions. the biden administration has done a great job. we have to upgrade their offensive capability, in particular long-range missiles, 300-mile range and m-1 tanks so this winter isn't a period of waiting for the spring, but putting it to the russians. >> general and mr. ambassador, let me ask you both quickly to comment on our allies, especially the polls. when the news initially came in, it was terrible news. yet, they stayed back. everybody got in a room. everybody stayed calm. everybody stood shoulder to shoulder. that was not known. i mean, there was a real concern after the news first broke. what does it say about our partners in poland, our partners

across central europe that we handled this -- i say we -- nato handled this as well as they did. general, i'll start with you first. >> i think the good news is, again, it went to a nato forum. the 30 nations of nato, article iv consultations, a very sober-minded, careful way to underscore. as president biden has said before, the slightest infringement, attack on the baltic states, romania, poland, will be essentially an act of war. i think this was a good outcome. russia is aware of the great red line of the nato states. >> by the way, general, i would never mistake you for a navy man.

i had a split screen between an ambassador and general, admiral came out. what's that? >> i was going to say i wasn't attractive enough to be an admiral. >> mr. ambassador, i ask the same of you. diplomatically i thought it was such good news because we've been fearing an incident like this. it ended up to be a good test run to see how our allies stood together. >> oh, absolutely in so many ways. bringing together the nato alliance before the war started was a terrific achievement by the biden administration. it could have been very different. it could have been divided. one of the most pivotal players in this nato alliance has been

poland. poland has become one of the most strongest european partners of the ukrainians. i talk to the ukrainians every day. they know it. they deeply appreciate what the people of poland have been doing for them. >> it really is extraordinary how the people of poland have stood up and proven to be a great ally, a great partner for the ukrainians, and also for the united states and the rest of nato. general, before i let you go, one more thing i wanted to talk to you about. you and i both have been disturbed by what we've seen over the past five, six years, disturbed how the military has been used for political purposes by politicians. i want to ask you, though, what your reaction is when you see right wing america first politicians who used to support the military now saying, like,

josh hawley and others, that our military is weak. they don't know how to fight wars. they're too woke. we had some senators saying our troops should be more like russian troops, they're real men. i don't know. from everything i've heard, our military can do a hell of a lot more with a hell of a lot less than any other military in the history of warfare. what's your take? >> well, look, the members of the armed forces swore an oath to the constitution of the united states, not to a political leadership. this is an all volunteer force. 2.1 million women and men, active, guard, reserve, with the greatest technology. during the war on terror they took 60,000 killed and wounded. these are the most courageous people we've ever had in

uniform. 120,000 of them are in europe helping deter russian aggression. >> doing an extraordinary job. thank you so much retired four-star general barry mccaffrey. greatly appreciate your service. ambassador mcfaul, same to you obviously. thank you both for being here today. after four scrubbed launches in august, nasa finally sends its new rocket toward the moon. we'll tell you about it when we come back. ♪limu emu & doug♪ it's nice to unwind after a long week of telling people

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nasa has embarked on a crucial first step to returning astronauts to the lunar surface. tom costello has more from the kennedy space center. >> liftoff of artemis one. we rise together back to the moon and beyond. >> reporter: roaring off from the kennedy space center, the next chapter of america's love affair with all things space. nasa's artemis rocket, the most powerful effort built, the liftoff at 9:47 a.m. after nasa had to scrub august and september launches. hurricane ian and nicole pushed the launch into november. then a fuel leak delayed.

>> we've never seen such a tail of flame. this is just the test flight. we're stretching it and testing it in ways we will not do to a rocket that has a human crew on it. >> reporter: artemis is the twin of apollo. in 2025 a woman and person of color will climb inside the orion space capsule and land on the moon for the first time since 1972. the ultimate goal build a lunar base and space station for future missions to mars. just like apollo, the astronauts will liftoff on their backs. there's 30% more room inside

artemis. there's a rowing machine for exercise and right there is a come mode. orion will also return like apollo parachuing into the pacific ocean. splashdown set for december 11th from san diego. >> it's still a blast to watch those launches. >> it really is. my dad was so thrilled by the apollo missions. we would get in front of the tv set and watch them. when you would see the rockets go up, the launch pad going, that american flag on the side, it's just so exciting and so great obviously that they're finally able to do this. earlier on the show we were talking about the midterms and the results of the midterms with presidential historian doris

kerns goodwin. take a look. >> every now and then you get a generation that comes up and young people voted in record numbers. they voted for democracy. that means they were willing to put their short-term needs about inflation and economy against the position that democracy matters. every now you get a generation like that. it was like john kennedy talking about doing something for your country and not yourself. it was obama giving that sense of hope for the future. when that happens, something is happening in the country. that's the most important thing. democracy was on the ballot. pr towards us but the people themselves came through. the reason they did, the first time they got to vote after 2020, after the january 6th, after the hearings. they were on the ballot finally and the people came through and that's what i think we should be talking about today. that's the celebration. the system held and the people

spoke their minds and they voted for something larger than what we thought they would, inflation and economics. they voted for their country and that to me is the most exciting thing. >> the people came through. they voted for something larger than themselves. they voted for the country. wow. for more on this story to another, let's bring in our good friend professor of history at rice university doug brinkley, the author of the book titled "silent spring revolution." john f. kennedy, rachel, richard nixon and the great environmental awakening. we'll get to the book in a moment, doug. but doris was talking about fdrs rendezvous with destiny, jfk, new frontier challenging people to ask not what their country can do for them but what they can do for their country. barack obama's hope and change and doris believes a new

generation that put democracy ahead of short term concerns whether it be inflation, whether it be crime, those short term issues, they voted as doris said for something bigger than themselves. what's your take? >> i agree with doris. generation z did an amazing job showing up and voting. you know, i've been teaching, joe, i've known you for a long time. there's something different going on right now about young people in their 20s. they really want to take over and tackle the tough issues but when i noticed people being most concern is climate change. they're working that beat all the time. you were just talking about the moon shot. they want an earth shot. that feel our generation of baby boomers didn't do their job, that the planet is in deep distress and we see it with mega wildfires and floods and epic hurricanes. it will be part of our daily

life. so on climate young people are leading. they took the abortion issue and said what? i'm in my 20s and you're taking a freedom away from me? i think that brought a lot of young people out and then the very premise which joe biden did a good job of shopping really is that democracy itself is on the ballot and democratic values and defense of the ukraine and making sure nato stays whole. so it made the difference. they were the game changers in this past election, young people and that's exciting. >> no question about it. they turned out and they voted overwhelmingly democratic and in that context, you had donald trump making his announcement late last night at mar-a-lago he's coming back for more. another run, obviously a very different man than he was when he announced seven years ago he's been through and damaged by so much all brought on by himself mostly. what's your assessment of his getting back into the race and what it means for our politics? >> he has had incredibly shrinking politician or power

broker. it reminds me of philmore got out of the white house and ran a nothing party filled with bigotry towards mormons and catholics and jews and blacks and yet, he wants to be the grover cleveland president, one term lost and comes back in. it's hard to imagine it happening. trump lost to hillary clinton by 10 million votes when he got to be president. then he lost the midterm. he lost the presidency again and this is a trump midterm loss. so this is a deeply damaged ex president like i haven't seen and instead of now we're talking about him being a mixture of war and harding known for corruption. andrew johnson he's beat. he's had double impeachimpeachmt one and he's trying to do something cooky know nothing trump party.

i think he'll be challenged by a number of republicans. >> quite a resume you mentioned and he's under investigation, a couple federal probes and on the state level, as well. let's talk about the book, doug, "silent spring revolution" comes from rachel charleston's book in 1962. what do you want to say about that movement and what happened in the '50s and '60s. >> it began in 1945. what a shocker. yes, we won the war against japan but now we have a nuclear age and monopoly in the united states of nuclear weapons. 1945 to 49. nobody else had them but low and behold, russia got them. we're still living with fear of russia and nuclear weapons but we started testing nuclear weapons really willy-nilly from 1945 to 1992 in the united states. we tested 1054 nuclear weapons blowing them up in air space.

most of it in the marshall islands or in the frenchman flats in nevada and we got fallout and people got sick. down windiers. that fallout came to the east coast and so people were worried but like martin luther king junior i wrote in the book says what good does it do to integrate a lunch counter if the milk is contaminated with nuclear debris and radio active. that anti nuclear testing movement which kennedy, john f. kennedy deserves kudos for passing the test ban treaty with russia and britain so we don't blow up weapons anymore like that but that movement with the wilderness lobby more like theodore roosevelt, meaning saving national parks, writing in the book how lyndon johnson saved in utah and north cascades in washington and redwood in california and the apostal islands in wisconsin and that

lobby met with rachel carson and rachel carson a one woman revolution because she went after ddt it was bad for human health, animal and wildlife would die but she was telling mothers and fathers of america, your children are sick if they're playing in their backyard. and at that point, the usda and counties were blanket spraying ddt all over places. so, you know, it's -- these movements all kind of congel and we had three presidents that met the moment. kennedy, nixon and johnson. >> it surprised me later on looking back and going back to nixon's presidency, nixon is always the one that doesn't seem to fit here when people think of nixon, they for good reason think about watergate and dirty tricks. they think about the committee to reelect the president. they don't think about the guy who, you know, who founded the epa. the guy that actually was

progressive on environmental issues in the early 70s, the same way people won't believe it but he was progressive on civil rights issues in the late 1950s. >> absolutely. for one thing, joey came from california and he of course, lived in san clementa so a lot of rich republican donors were not in my backyard are you going to build a nuclear plant or an aluminum siding factory so nixon understood that but what really changed it for him is when he ran for president in 1968, he hired john erilcman. he was a land, water lawyer who made his fortune going after polluters. people don't realize that -- [ laughter ] >> no. >> yeah, erlichman was a covert green working with the sierra club and people and nixon had no interest so he said you draw up

the documents and we'll do it as long as ed musky doesn't have anything to do with it. nixon loathed musky and part of the drama also was the santa barbara oil spill, joe. it hit -- he was only president days when that hit and then you have the cuyahoga river on fire in ohio and the ruge river in michigan. there is a drum beat to do something so nixon wants to co-opt the issue and 1970 he signs nipa, which is the birth of the environmental impact statement, which we all live by today. then nixon goes after earth day, the first earth day, april 22nd, 1970 nixon understanding what is going on creates the environmental protection agency as the first and if it's rachel carson who wrote silent spring to get rid of ddt, it's richard next son who bans ddt in 1972. >> yeah, you know, willy, we're

celebrating the 15th year and perhaps we need to look back of the 15 years and get some segments back. i think today a good one would be what have we learned today? what i learned today is john erlichman was an environmentalists. i never saw that one coming. >> yeah, in the closet about it but doing it anyway. doug, the new book "silent spring revolution." it is out now. doug, thanks so much. congrats on the book, good to see you. >> thank you. >> that does it for us this morning. we'll see you tomorrow morning on "morning joe." jose diaz balart picks up the coverage right now. good morning, 10:00 a.m. eastern, 7:00 a.m. pacific. i'm jose diaz balart. we begin with details on the missile strike in poland that left two people dead. nato leadership now says it was likely caused by ukrainian defense missiles