tv Alex Wagner Tonight MSNBC November 16, 2022 6:00pm-7:00pm PST
6:00 pm
we want to have a national ban -- but apparently, it seems like you paid for multiple abortions, or you've been accused of such by people. we're talking about character in terms of issues. pride is not a big deal, we had a lot of notice going into the election last week, but right now we've been looking for the issue, when that can motivate people. especially if the appeal is heard by the judge sometimes in. >> all, right fred, thank you very much. we appreciate it. that is all in on this -- good evening, ali. good evening, >> thank you for , and have a great evening. thank you for joining us at this hour. alex has the night off, and tonight, nbc the news is we're projecting that republicans will take control of the house of representatives next year. nbc news projects that when all of the votes are counted, republicans will hold 221 seats in the next congress with a
6:01 pm
margin of error of plus or minus two seats. this will likely translate into a narrow single digit majority. republicans are long predicted to win the control of congress is lower chamber. nobody expected that the election would be this close, or that republican majorities would be so slim in a year where forecasters predicted much larger republican gains. part of the reason for those slim majorities was an unexpected number of endangered house democrats who beat back republican challenges, and democrats who won races in unexpected places. to understand how and why this happened, we have to go back to last year, specifically the day before valentine's day last year. it was a sunday, but congress was still in session. that was the day that house impeachment managers were concluding their case against donald trump for inciting the violent insurrection that had taken place five weeks earlier. it looked like they were about to be finished when --
6:02 pm
in fact, it looked like all of the arguments were done, it looked like they were going to move on to the final senate vote over whether or not to convict donald trump when the lead house impeachment manager, the congressman jamie raskin, dropped this bombshell. >> last night, congresswoman jamie herrera beutler of washington state issued a statement confirming that in the middle of the insurrection, when house minority leader kevin mccarthy called the president to beg for help, president trump responded, and i quote, well kevin, i guess these people are more upset about the election than you are. we would like the opportunity to subpoena congresswoman herrera regarding her communications with house minority leader kevin mccarthy, and to subpoena her contemporaneous notes that she made regarding what president trump told kevin mccarthy in the middle of the insurrection. >> the house impeachment managers wanted to call the republican congresswoman to be
6:03 pm
a witness in their case against donald trump. congresswoman herrera butler was one of the ten republican members of the house who was voting to impeach donald trump a few weeks earlier. she had good reason to. as you, heard congresswoman jamie herrera beutler was a witness to donald trump siding with the capitol rioters over kevin mccarthy while the attack was still underway. in the end, the house impeachment managers did not call congresswoman herrera butler to be an impeachment witness. instead, they entered into the record a written statement from the republican congresswoman describing what she had heard donald trump say. later that same day, donald trump was acquitted in the senate, and the impeachment trial ended. it was not over for republican congresswoman jamie herrera beutler. back in her home district, in washington state, local republicans voted to censure her for having the audacity to tell the truth about what she heard that day. former president trump made it
6:04 pm
his mission to ensure that jamie herrera beutler did not stay in congress. he opposed her in a republican primary, and endorsed this guy, joe can't. interesting character, in an election denier that falsely claimed at the january 6th attack, quote, looked like an intelligence operation, and quote. he called the january 6th rioters political prisoners, and he vowed that he would investigate and define both the fbi and the justice department. here is something interesting. many democrats in the republican-leaning district in southern washington decided to pounce on this opportunity. they thought he was a vulnerable opponent, and so some democrats made the decision to vote for can't in washington's jungle primary system, to help elevate an election denier to a top two finish in the hopes of later defeating him in the general election. as a result, democratic candidate -- and joe can't advanced to the
6:05 pm
midterm elections, ending her six term run in congress. joe can't later lost the general election in the republican leading district, an auto shop owner whose practical in targeted economic message revealed to republicans, as well as the democrats. as the seattle times wrote, where can't re-wrote the history of the attack on the capital, perez talked about apprenticeship and job training. where kent wanted to prosecute anthony fauci for murder, perez wanted more support for small businesses. where kent want to the national abortion ban, she said that she wanted to protect both abortion rights and gun rights. the polling data website, 5:38, gave her just a 2% chance of winning that election. but now she is headed to congress. we saw a similar thing happened in michigan's third district, where another republican who
6:06 pm
voted to impeach trump lost his primary race to a trump backed election denier. that trump backed election denier went on to lose the general election to the democrat, hillary sultan. if there's any question about the role that he played in those democratic victories, look at what is happening in california right now. the congresswoman, david valadao was another one of the republicans voted to impeach donald trump over january 6th. unlike the others, he did not lose his primary race. nbc news has yet to call that race, but right now with nearly half the votes in, david valadao is leading his democratic opponent by five points. in district after district, trump backed challenger's lost the race is two democratic candidates who defied expectations with smart campaigns. even when the polls and the parties had all but counted themself. they have targeted a path for others to follow and now that trump has announced his
6:07 pm
candidacy for president in 2024. what did these winners tell us about how they did it? joining us now is one of those democrats -- from washington's third congressional district. congresswoman, congratulations. thank you for being with us tonight. were you surprised -- i was here in this very room with steve kornacki when we called the race for you. it was described as an upside. it was an unexpected win. was it unexpected to you? >> i would not describe it as unexpected. i know the district, and live here, i'm a fifth generation washingtonian. this is a district with a proud history of sending independents to congress. one thing that i would challenge is that in our data, it shows that many democrats actually voted in the primary with jamie herrera beutler to support her impeachment vote. i underperformed in the primary substantially, because in our district, we have many american
6:08 pm
standing up for the middle of the road. that's what we're known for in southwest washington. that's part of what made it so improbable, and so miscalculated. >> this is interesting. when you say you underperformed, and a lot of democrats voted for jamie herrera beutler, your path to victory, in that article that i just quoted. it's kind of like an escape room, you have lots of little clues to tell you how to campaign, and how to succeed. when you say they are not surprised, it's on the basis of a bunch of little things that you saw that joe can't was improbable, the jamie herrera beutler did appeal to independents and democrats. you knew that the issues that you would campaign on would be appealing for your constituents. >> that's right. i think they were all hungry for a congress that looks more like america, for people that want to fix things in our country. build bridges, not bring them down. i really respect the principled
6:09 pm
stance that congresswoman herrera butler took in her vote. i got into this race to stand up against the political extremes. that is why i am so proud to have seen the district. that's part of the equation here. in general, so many moderate republicans, so many independents, and so many democrats really got behind us and propelled us to the front of this race. >> i know that you didn't mean it as a cliché when you say that the people want people to fix things. you actually fix things. >> that's right. we are in independent auto shop, we fix cars, we fix the cars of middle america. people that are just trying to get to work, whose converters have been stolen. those emergency funds are going to be wiped out by petty crime. this is what a lot of america looks like right now. >> you didn't delve into -- obviously you had an opponent that was a bit of a conspiracy
6:10 pm
theorist. more than a bit, an election denier. but one of the things that republicans used against democrats in the past election, two, things won the inflation issue, and culture wars. you know one of them very well, obviously inflation is something that you deal, with your small business owner. nobody ever gets a bill for repairing their car that they think is the right amount or twice or three times as much as they want. you didn't run get run into culture wars. tell us how you skirted these issues. >> just talking about what matters to people. i think we're all really tired of the political agenda being set by twitter. we want good schools, we want to have the cops show up when we call them. i've had my building broken into four times this year, and that gets expensive. we cannot afford to keep going down this road of polarization. our kids need in america that has a level playing field for small businesses, for public schools, for homeownership.
6:11 pm
all of that stuff deeply matters for the long term economic health, and the health of our democracy. >> tell us about these issues now. you are not going to be part of the majority, but you come there with a deep understanding of those issues. inflation in the economy tend to be the top issue for people. you deal with both of them. you deal with unemployment, rising wages, that's part of the reason why people repair cars that otherwise could've gotten rid of or do something else. what do you want to see done so that you stand a stronger chance, and democrats strand a stronger chance versus republicans in the house in 2024? >> i am here to be an advocate for middle america. i think that one of the bleeding edge of that is something known as the right to repair laws, laws that give consumers and independent manufacturer shops like mine, people that own iphones, home medical equipment, the ability to fix their own stuff, it gives people that work in the
6:12 pm
trades and ability to have a level playing field, to avoid consumer waste, electronic waste, those are all critical issues. when you look at the long term economic health -- and part of that is ensuring that we support career and technical education. our best trade schools all got turned into per computer programming schools. i don't know how many programs you hired last, week but i bet that many people watching this are on a waitlist for an electrician, a carpenter, a plumber, those are jobs that can't be exported. it cannot be off short. we have to do the work that it takes in the long term to bring back the trades in america. >> do you think that you can get these discussions prioritized in this polarized world where decisions are being made on twitter. everything that you're saying, it should be music to every american's ears, regardless of where they are in the political spectrum. these literally are the things that are going to solve our economic problems. you know enough about the
6:13 pm
process to prioritize these things in your caucus. >> i didn't run for congress assuming that i would be in the majority. i was clear coming into this that it takes bipartisanship to be effective in congress. and so i think that this binary thinking of, are they indecent control? we have to walk away from that, we have to walk away from being cheerleaders for our party and still being advocates for our district. that's why i'm here, and that's why people sent me and not a better funded candidate to congress. and so it's about finding people that are working in swing districts that are there to show up and do that hardware, and not stand behind party leadership. >> what happens when republicans get the message that came through from your election and do not put a jamie herrera beutler of. are you confident you would've won that race? >> i did not get into the race
6:14 pm
to beat her, i'll tell you that much. my real hope in running that race, is that it's not about me as an individual candidate, but it's a clear message to both parties to stop going out and finding candidates they can still fund, and find candidates that will work for a living. people who work in the trades that have grease under their fingernails, who worry about making their mortgage payments, who are out buying new cars all the time. people that really want to fix stuff. it's going to take grassroots work from both political parties in order to do that work. >> you're not really looking for retweets and twitter fame. but you did tweet that rural democrats are almost an endangered species now, and we need to take a really hard look at why that is. what do you mean, and how do you fix that? >> specifically where i live, we have a lot of issues that have alienated democrats in rural communities.
6:15 pm
i come from five generations in washington state. my sense is that -- with postgraduate degrees and they start to explain stuff to us. that gets really old very quickly. in rural communities, we know staff that those folks don't. and i think that it takes listening, and not assuming that you know how to fix our problems with out understanding with the real problems are. actually get my internet from a radio tower, and pretty surround it going to be the only member of congress without broadband internet at home. i'm tired of having people fix my problems without listening to me about what they really are. >> congresswoman-elect, thank you for joining us. thank you for telling us about your road to victory. and congresswoman-elect from washington's third congressional district, thank you for making time for us tonight. we have much more to come tonight. next, elizabeth warren joins us
6:16 pm
to discuss the -- puts the country one step closer to codifying same-sex marriage. and the response to donald trump's announcement was so lackluster that his own followers were desperate to leave the room, but they were not allowed to. we'll have details ahead. ls ahead we really had our hands full with our two-year-old. so naturally, we doubled down with a new puppy. thankfully, we also have new tide ultra-oxi with odor eliminators. between stains and odors, it can handle double trouble.
6:19 pm
as a business owner, fo your bottom line iser always top of mind. so start saving by switching to the mobile service designed for small business: comcast business mobile. flexible data plans mean you can get unlimited data or pay by the gig. all on the most reliable 5g network. with no line activation fees or term contracts. saving you up to $500 a year. and it's only available to comcast business internet customers. so boost your bottom line by switching today. >> on this vote, three fifths comcast business. powering possibilities. ™
6:21 pm
of the senators duly chosen have voted in the affirmative, the motion is agreed to. >> the motion is agreed to. today, the united states senate one step closer to passing the marriage act, a landmark bill that would -- defected the bill cleared this initial hurdle shows that it has a good chance of becoming the law. take a look at that final tally, 62 to 37. senate democrats needed ten of their colleagues to break the filibuster and debate on the bill, in the end, 12 republicans join them. it's inspiring to see this level of bipartisanship in washington post see republicans voting with democrats first in the house, and then the senate, to get something like this down. it deserves to be celebrated. beyond that, it's a big deal for civil rights and equality in this country. it's usually relevant in the
6:22 pm
wake of the supreme court's june decision to overturn roe v. wade, a judicial precedent that mast americans believed was safe, until it collapsed. we've seen a steady erosion of abortion rights with full bans in 13 states, and major restrictions in for others. justice clarence thomas in his concurring opinion on roe was not bashful when he said that he suggested the court could reconsider its ruling on a number of precedents, including same-sex marriage. all of these factors made the procedural vote today one small step, a major move towards enshrining same-sex marriage, and it's the small steps collectively that help move the needle forward. joining us now is the senator, elizabeth warren, a democrat from massachusetts. senator, it's great to see you again. thank you for being with us tonight. >> thank you, it's good to be with you. >> let's talk about this. 62 to 37, it's a procedural vote. it doesn't always go the same
6:23 pm
way in the final vote. this now looks like it's actually on its way to becoming the law. tell us your thoughts on this. this is not exactly codifying same-sex marriage, it's basically saying that the federal government has to respect a marriage that was performed in the state it was performed in. >> that's right, and it's clarence thomas who alerted us to the importance of doing this. now we have built a safety net in case the extremist supreme court decides to overrule the laws that say the case law, we are going to respect marriage, whoever you love. another thing that this does it is terrific, is that it gets rid of an old federal law. about 20 years old, the defense of marriage act. it's still in shrine in federal law, but says the marriage is only between one man and one woman.
6:24 pm
a nice piece of this is to say that we're putting that behind us. we're building a net towards respecting all people, whoever you love, we're going to respect your marriage. that's how it should be. >> does it say anything to you about bipartisanship? there were republicans involved as co-sponsors of this bill, is this just a specific issue, or should this be a harbinger? is this a canary in a very good coal mind about the fact that something might actually happen in this u.s. senate? >> as you know, a single incident does not make a trend line. i would love to see it repeat it again and again, but i really do feel like on this one, about it.ome americans across the country have lived with equal marriage for a long time now. i come from massachusetts where we were the first state in the union to recognize equal marriage, and i think it has
6:25 pm
been a case of -- across the political spectrum, more people saying what is right is right. that means two people that love each other can get married, and they will be treated with respect. i love this moment. >> is there a model here for abortion? we've seen abortions in ballot measures in several states, and have succeeded, regardless of who put them on and how they were where did. that leads some people to think that there is a voter inspired and protected center of protections for abortion as opposed to court protected ones. do you see a parallel or possibility? >> i see one parallel. that is, the very large majority of americans believe in equal marriage, and the very large majority of americans believe in access to abortion. the differences -- let's do one more. we have a supreme court doesn't believe in either one of those,
6:26 pm
and a supreme court that says it is their opinion that should matter, not the opinions of the american people. now what it is that we are. legislatively, it's the case now that you can never -- i don't think we can get an abortion ban in place, but there is an aggressive fight back, you saw that lindsey graham has proposed a nationwide ban on abortion. and so it seems to me that on abortion, it's still at this moment, much more hotly contested, notwithstanding the fact that the evidence from people across this country overwhelmingly say that access to abortion should be a protected right. it's part of health care, as part of economic self determination. it's part of having control over one's own life. we are still getting a lot of pushback from the republicans on that. >> it's noteworthy that nobody
6:27 pm
got on lindsey graham's bus with that suggestion. republicans, somebody described to me as the fall of row, not being the dog that caught the car about the one that slammed into the car. it has not turned out to be winning proposition for republicans. >> it's true, and i think there's a larger message here about doing the things that the american people would like to see us do. i think the access to abortion is one of those. i think the economic measures that we take, i think that when we voted for the inflation reduction act, and we actually put it in place, 35 dollar insulin cap. where we said the billionaire corporations are going to have to pay a minimum tax. those are also things that are very, very popular. that is one of the reasons that democrats did so much better in
6:28 pm
the midterms than any of the pundits and washington insiders, and even pollsters had predicted. >> let's talk about georgia. this thing is not over yet. there were a lot of people that that republicans would be less invested in herschel walker if this was not about the balance of power in the senate. there are a lot of democrats who think they should be more invested in raphael warnock at this moment in order to get some of the things that you just talked about done. a 50/50 senate still does not give progressive priorities that somebody like you would hope that they would have. >> i would very much help that raphael warnock wins his reelection. the number one reason for that is because he is a good and decent man. i sit near raphael in the senate, and i watch him day after day as he fights for the people of georgia.
6:29 pm
he fights for what is right. he's one of the people that led the fight to get the 35-dollar cap on insulin for seniors. he's one of the people who led the battle to make sure that health insurance was more affordable, and to get cuts in the cost of health insurance. raphael is a man that lives his values every single day, and he brings that to the united states senate. and so i'll just be honest, it's the number one reason that i hope he is reelected. he's a good man, and he georgia will be well served. >> what about another minute left his values every day, donald trump is running for president in 2024. we had a lackluster launch to that campaign lasting eight, apparently people are trying to get out. trying to indicate to support
6:30 pm
for them, it is a competing network across the road that kept dipping out of the announcement, something the people would never do. in the past, is it you are now assisted on trump is losing his last year and hold on republican party, and possibly the country? >> we beat him in 2020, we beat him in 2022, and we can beat him again if he is going to run for president, if he's the republican nominee. i've given up on predicting when republicans will finally turn away from donald trump. i mean that. she, i'm one of those people that backed when he -- republicans are at least going to start distancing themselves from it. i was wrong. but i thought it for sure, when all that came at the first time he was impeached, there were republicans that had to distance themselves. i was wrong.
6:31 pm
i thought on january 6th with the insurrection, this is surely it, this is surely the case that there will be no republicans in elected positions in the leadership who will still stand donald trump. again, obviously that was not the case. he seems to be coming back, and there is an ongoing love affair between donald trump and republican leadership but i genuinely do not understand. i just do not understand. how this country can embrace a man like that. >> we remain confused on this. good to see, you senator, -- senator livesay, democrat from massachusetts. when we come back, the trump announcement that was supposed to be the most important day in american history. according to him, only it wasn't. even the maga crowd tried to leave but couldn't. when the judges prosecutors investigation of donald trump
6:32 pm
shifted into high gear, we'll be talking about that when we come back as well. as well. space. the boundary of human achievement. the new frontier. ♪♪ eh. ♪♪ it's not time to escape. it's time to engage. it's time to plant more trees. hoo! ♪♪ time to build more trust. time to make more space for all of us. so while the others look to the metaverse and mars, let's stay here and restore ours. yeah, it's time to blaze our trail. 'cause the new frontier? it ain't rocket science. ♪♪ it's right here. ♪♪
6:33 pm
harvey is aware of complaints about his treatment it' of women.re. and he's working on that. do you want to expand on that? this is about the system, protecting abusers. this is all going to come out. my most important kitchen tool? my brain. so i choose neuriva plus. unlike some others, neuriva plus is a multitasker supporting 6 key indicators of brain health. to help keep me sharp. neuriva: think bigger. trelegy for copd. ♪birds flyin' high, you know how i feel.♪ ♪breeze driftin' on by...♪ ♪...you know how i feel.♪ you don't have to take... [coughing] ...copd sitting down. ♪it's a new dawn,...♪ ♪...it's a new day,♪ it's time to make a stand. ♪and i'm feelin' good.♪ start a new day with trelegy. no once-daily copd... ...medicine has the power to treat copd...
6:34 pm
...in as many ways as trelegy. with three medicines in one inhaler,... ...trelegy makes breathing easier for a full 24 hours, improves lung function, and helps prevent future flare-ups. trelegy won't replace a rescue inhaler... ...for sudden breathing problems. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking it. do not take trelegy more than prescribed. trelegy may increase your risk of thrush, pneumonia, and osteoporosis. call your doctor if worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling, problems urinating,... ...vision changes, or eye pain occur. take a stand, and start a new day with trelegy. ask your doctor about once-daily trelegy... ...and save at trelegy.com. ♪♪ after a disaster, you don't just want something new, you want what's yours. that's why tide loads of hope is expanding to provide
6:35 pm
6:36 pm
6:37 pm
last night, fox news did not share that assessment. they kept cutting away from it over and over again. >> remember i said to angela? you remember? nobody is remembering her now. >> if you're just joining, us donald trump in mar-a-lago announcing his 2024 presidential run. we are going to get back to the speech in just a minute. >> and as shawn said, president trump continues to speak. he spoke for about 50 seven minutes, 2024 is off and running. will dip back in and see what he's saying. >> billy the kid got almost none, jesse james, eric trump got more subpoenas. >> legault back to former president trump when news warrants. >> i guess news never warranted, because they never never cut
6:38 pm
back to the former president. the speech was so the crowds formed at exit to the back of the room while he was speaking. security had already told everybody that nobody can leave before he made his own exit. that detail about folks trying to leave, which was originally reported by abc news, that detail on its own would be one thing. look who ran with it, conservative outlets like the washington examiner making headlines out of, it mocking the president that they used to a door. it is kind of shocking this morning to see how many conservative outlets dunked on and downplayed trump's speech. he was the front page of the murdoch-owned new york post today, referring to trump's declaration that he is running for president of the united states as, quote, florida man makes announcement. a story that was buried tea on the paper, page 26. here's the response on the national review, the headline reads, no with a period after. it's pretty amazing what in the same conservative media that
6:39 pm
fond over his every move for the past six years turned on him. it's even more amazing that they are not alone. today, axios reported that the gop megadonor, stephen sportsman, one of the cofounders of the private equity firm blackstone has ditched trump. quote, it's time for the republican party to turn to a new generation of leaders. and then tonight, -- another megadonor, air to the latter fortune, he has also ditched trump. that makes three gop megadonor dropping trump in the last few weeks. as for the support within the leadership of the republican party itself, today was a rough day for trump. >> it's a free country, the president is entitled to announce his intentions whenever he desires. i honestly believe that we will have better choices come 2024. i don't think that anybody -- >> better choices than donald trump? >> i do. >> the way i'm going into this
6:40 pm
presidential primary this season is to stay out of it. i don't have a dog in that fight. >> i don't have a dog in that fight. the leader of the republicans and the senate saying he doesn't have the dog in a fight of a leadership in his own party. the former vice president, and endorsing hypothetical candidates that have not even been announced that are running over trump, the guy that shows him. as for the newly reelected leader of the house, kevin mccarthy, reporters swarmed him all day asking for a statement on trump's announcement. he refused to say anything. today has been brutal for the former president, and you would think that without the conservative press, without big money gop donors, within the leadership of the republican party on his side, you would think that he could at least turn to his own family. think again. this is the instagram story posted by president trump's oldest daughter, ivanka, after his speech last night. quote, i love my father very much. getting ready to prioritize my young children in the private
6:41 pm
life that i'm creating as a family. -- strong showing so far. we're excited to see where it goes. goes ♪♪ voltaren. the joy of movement. ♪♪ ( ♪♪ ) (snorting) (clattering) (frustrated grunt) i need some sleep. (groaning) (growling) (silence) (sigh, chuckle) if you struggle with cpap, you should check out inspire. inspire. sleep apnea innovation. learn more and view important safety information at inspiresleep.com.
6:44 pm
6:45 pm
- let's get into the numbers. - why would a company do that? especially with hr and payroll software. with paycom, employees enter and manage their own hr data in a single, easy-to-use software. visit paycom.com and schedule a demo today. with unitedhealthcare my sister has a whole team to help her get the most out of her medicare plan. ♪wow, uh-huh♪ advantage: me! can't wait 'til i turn 65! take advantage with an aarp medicare advantage plan... only from unitedhealthcare. >> with people's minds already moving toward 2024, donald trump officially announced his third run for president yesterday. likely to get ahead of any other potential candidate but also perhaps the strategy to get ahead of the legal jeopardy
6:46 pm
he is facing over his actions in the aftermath of the 2020 race, including in georgia where just yesterday the governor reelected brian kemp, testified before a special grand journey jury and fulton county. fani willis has been investigating trump's effort to overturn the results of the 2020 election in that state. of course you remember, just a few days before a pro trump mob launched an attack on the u.s. capitol, audio of a call between then president trump and the georgia secretary of state, brad raffensperger, leaked to the public. and we learned that the lame duck president asked the top elections official in that state to, quote, find 11,780 votes. which would be just one more vote than the 11,779 margin that he lost by in georgia. fulton county district attorney willis has been conducting a criminal investigation since february of 2021 into that call, and other efforts by the former president and his allies to subvert the vote in georgia.
6:47 pm
investigation had appeared to come to a halt during the midterm campaign season, but it appears to have moved back into full swing this week. in addition to hearing from georgia governor brian kemp yesterday, the grand jury in fulton county heard from gasping adjacent today. after trying very hard to avoid, lindsey graham is slated to testify before the grand jury next week, and former secretary newt gingrich the week. after not to mention michael flynn was ordered by a florida court yesterday to testify, but his lawyers have indicated they're gonna try to block that from happening. mark meadows has also been ordered by a court to testify at the end of the month. the timing on that could change. how might the wrap ramping up a special grand jury proceedings in georgia affect the former president turned 2024 presidential candidate? about a year ago the brookings institution revealed a report with a known facts of the investigation in georgia, gathered from publicly available evidence. they published a second edition of that report this week, concluding that, quote, trump
6:48 pm
is at substantial risk of criminal prosecution in fulton county. joining us now is the author, one of the authors, of that report, gwen keys fleming, former district attorney of dekalb county in georgia, right next door to fulton county. she has known fulton county da fani louis for years. thank you for joining us this evening. >> it's my pleasure. thanks for having me. >> so we like people who don't know anything about grand jury some prosecutions, on the basis of everybody who has testified so far, the information that we know, publicly, how close do you think da willis's two can pleading her investigation? >> i think there are some reports that she is looking to make final decisions by the end of the year. when you think about the time left in this month for the special grand jury to be able to wrap up the witnesses that you just described, possibly published their final report between now and the end of
6:49 pm
december, that still gives the district attorney time in december to go before a regular criminal grand jury if the special grand jury decides that there is a mix of recommendations that there is sufficient evidence to bring charges. >> our lawyer experts on these shows always tell us don't assume an outcome. never assume what is going to happen. could you help me assume what is going to happen? do you think we can expect an indictment of the former president? >> i think prosecutors could assume what could happen, they would love to have that gift. you are absolutely right, but there is no way to tell what these 23 or so residents are going to conclude in the special grand jury room. i think the district attorney was right to be able to get them to hear some of the evidence that she has. so this is actually a preview of what an ultimate jury that goes that far would think about her evidence. so again, we don't have a
6:50 pm
crystal ball. we don't know what the recommendations are. the bookings report that we wrote, which, again, is based on the publicly available evidence. so the da knows a lot more than we do. we have outlined a few crimes that we think could be salient based on the known facts. that includes false statements, conspiracy to commit election fraud, and possibly a rico indictment. >> listen to, what we just talked about the people we know again, publicly, have been subpoenaed, the trump world people, mark meadows, lindsey graham, michael flynn, new gingrich. it looks like she's going to get testimony probably from all of them. there are efforts to delay what she like to get the ball down. is there anybody we haven't talked about who you think would be central to the investigation, maybe has not been subpoenaed yet? >> i think folks largely have been subpoenaed. it's a question of whether they will actually testify. i'm specifically talking about
6:51 pm
some of the alleged fake electors that she has indicated she wanted to hear from. i think they would be very critical, not only in outlining what their actions were in terms of citing those documents and ultimately being delivered to the national archives on january six to be counted in lieu of the actual votes from the biden electors. and so i think those folks, again, not only would be able to provide insight about their own actions, but also could ask them to participate. that may reach people higher up in the trump circle. but again, none of us know that at this point. only the special grand jury would have that information, and the district attorney hopes to gather more testimony. >> is it your sense that don trump's announcement that he's running for president again and anyway affects the family
6:52 pm
louis's investigation? >> prosecutors have fought brought charges against people who have been elected to office all the time. this is a special case in terms of reaching of former tech president, but bottom, line every district attorney takes an oath to pursue evidence or pursue charges without fear, favor, or affection. that means she will go forward if she has the evidence, without being fearful of the former president, his defense team, or whoever else may be opposed to the prosecution. she is also not going to do it to gain favor with others that may want this prosecution. being a da has a high responsibility, and it is her job to be able to and protect the integrity of the criminal justice system by following the evidence. the fani willis that i know will do exactly that. and leave no stone unturned. >> well, i know that you have coauthored a report based on public information, but the
6:53 pm
rest of us where that public information would not have been able to do it without minds like yours. so we appreciate you not only doing it but coming in telling us how you interpret it. thank you for being with. us when keith fleming, former district attorney at dekalb county, georgia. thanks for being with us this evening. now with the election over, one republican numbers cruel stunt returns. that's next. that's next. for instant relief that lasts up to 12 hours. vicks sinex targets congestion at the source, relieving nasal congestion and sinus pressure by reducing swelling in the sinuses. try vicks sinex. ♪limu emu & doug♪ it's nice to unwind after a long week of telling people how liberty mutual customizes your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. showtime. whoo! i'm on fire tonight. (limu squawks) yes! limu, you're a natural. we're not counting that.
6:54 pm
only pay for what you need. ♪liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty.♪ in this family, it's the scientists versus the artists. only pay for what you need. [ melancholy music playing ] what kinda movie are you gonna make? $100 for a hobby? -it's not a hobby, dad. [ chatter ] don't dismiss what he does. it's playful or imaginative. family. art... [ grunting ] it'll tear you in two. i don't want to disappoint you. [ screaming ] you do what your heart says you have to. hi! need new glasses? get more from your benefits at visionworks! how can you see me squinting? i can't! i'm just telling everyone!
6:55 pm
hey! use your vision benefits before they expire. visionworks. see the difference. my asthma felt anything but normal. ♪ ♪ it was time for a nunormal with nucala. nucala is a once-monthly add-on treatment for severe eosinophilic asthma that can mean less oral steroids. not for sudden breathing problems. allergic reactions can occur. get help right away for swelling of face, mouth, tongue, or trouble breathing. infections that can cause shingles have occurred. don't stop steroids unless told by your doctor. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection.
6:56 pm
may cause headache, injection site reactions, back pain, and fatigue. ask your asthma specialist about a nunormal with nucala. super emma just about sleeps in her cape. but when we realized she was battling sensitive skin, we switched to tide hygenic clean free. it's gentle on her skin and out-cleans our old free detergent. tide hygenic clean free. hypoallergenic and safe for sensitive skin. well, we fell in love through gaming. tide hygenic clean free. but now the internet lags and it throws the whole thing off. when did you first discover this lag? i signed us up for t-mobile home internet. ugh! but, we found other interests. i guess we have. [both] finch! let's go! oh yeah! it's not the same. what could you do to solve the problem? we could get xfinity? that's actually super adult of you to suggest. i can't wait to squad up. i love it when you talk nerdy to me. guy, guys, guys, we're still in session. >> at 6 am today, a bus pulled and i don't know what the heck you're talking about.
6:57 pm
up to a place i spent a lot of time at, through his street station in philadelphia. the passengers, nearly 30 asylum seekers, had traveled for days from del rio, texas. one asylum seeker told the philadelphia inquirer that they had been given one small package meal, days of travel. as with all the buses, texas governor greg abbott has said to new york and d.c., his administration failed to give officials enough notice that the migrants were coming in we
6:58 pm
need food, clothes clothing, and shelter. the refusal to ordained has been the key feature of abbott's-month-old stunt. silently moving thousands of migrants across the country, like ponds, to own the libs. except this time they used kids as pawns, as well. but philadelphia, the city of brotherly love, that is my other home, was ready, with food, clothing, transportation, to intake centers, medical screenings. that's how city officials learned that one of those children, ten year old girl, needed immediate medical attention. reportedly she was dehydrated and fighting a high fever. she and her parents were quickly taken to the emergency room for treatment. this is what happens when governors like greg abbott and florida's ron desantis decide to use human beings as props to score political points, while the dozens of migrants who loaded on their bus to philadelphia disembark turn 40-degree weather, governor abbott sent this letter to president biden, telling him that the increasing border crossings is biden's fault, but he has to, quote, reinstate the policies that he eliminated in order to fulfill its
6:59 pm
constitutional duty to enforce federal immigration laws and protect the states against invasion. and quote. right, because we have to secure our country from all the dehydrated ten year olds who are invading it. this language of invasion, this notion that opportunity in this country is a zero sum game, that someone finding safety and freedom here takes something away from you or me. it's language we have heard from several defeated republican candidates across the country, leading up to last week's midterm elections. but it's just not true. that approach to immigration is partly why a cdc health order meant to curb the spread of covid at the border, title 42, was misused to suppress immigration at the southern border for nearly three years. the policy has allowed the trump and then the biden administration's to immediately expel migrants before they can request asylum. just yesterday a federal judge struck down title 42. in five weeks the government
7:00 pm
will resume processing migrants who are seeking asylum at the border. that's the way it supposed to work under an international agreement to which the u.s.'s party and according to u.s. law. experts expect a potential increase of migrants at the border once the expulsion policy and six month. undoubtedly that will cause many on the right to yell at biden a little more, to keep claiming that there is some kind of invasion. in reality, our immigration system has been dysfunctional for sometime now, under administrations of both parties. we need the kind of administration reform that the biden and congressional democrats ran on, not political stance. that is it for us tonight. we'll see you again tomorrow. now it's time for the last word with lawrence o'donnell. e for th>> you and i have not ha chance to speak since the midterm elections and since the stuff that came in on saturday night that decided it, and i will say, everybody i talked to is in greater piece about the concept of democracy than they were on the monday before election done that night. >> there's a lot of reason for. that we're gonna
146 Views
IN COLLECTIONS
MSNBC West Television Archive Television Archive News Search ServiceUploaded by TV Archive on