were able to come into power, and if they were able to take back the majority, but given the really underwhelming and disappointing performance that they had in the midterms, they were expecting to have a much larger majority, several seats more, a comfortable cushion for mccarthy to launch these investigations, and they don't have that, and it's having a lot of people question how political do they want to get. particularly we interviewed and spoke with a lot of the republicans in the districts that biden had won in 2020. and they're really saying, look, we can't get too political here. talk of impeachment, they basically said it would be frustrating to try and impeach at this point. it's too politicized, focus on the economy and the issue that they think were a mandate from the midterm elections and kind of move away from talk of impeachment. it's a lot less likely now, i think, given the performance in the midterms last week.

>> alayna treene, thank you so much, and thank you for getting up "way too early" with us on this friday morning. don't worry, lemire is back on monday, and "morning joe" starts right now. the american democracy is majestic, but it is fragile, many of us here have witnessed the fragility firsthand, tragically, in this chamber, and so democracy must be forever defended from forces that wish it harm. last week, the american people spoke. and their voices were raised in defense of liberty of the rule of law and of democracy itself. >> they resoundedly rejected violence and insurrection and in doing so gave proof through the

night that our flag was still there. [ applause ] and now we owe to the american people our very best to deliver on their faith. to forever reach for the more perfect union, the glorious horizon that our founders promised. it is the end of an era in washington as house speaker nancy pelosi announces she is stepping away from party leadership. this is a seismic shift for democrats on the hill who have been under her guidance for decades. we're going to discuss her ground breaking career, the role she will pay in the future, and

who may be next to lead the party. that's a big story we're covering this morning. also, house republicans doubling down on extremism as they prepare to take control of the house. they promise to tackle inflation, crime, and the border. that was everything they were talking about. but it seems that they are much more interested in settling scores now. we'll explain, and we'll talk about whether or not they've learned their lesson of trumpism and what might be a better way forward. good morning, and welcome to "morning joe." it is friday, november 18th, we're here in washington and with us, we have columnist and associate editor for "the washington post," david ignatius, pulitzer prize winning columnist at "the washington post," eugene robinson, attorney and contributing columnist for "the washington post," george conway, and washington bureau chief for usa today, susan page is with us, and she is the author of the best selling biography entitled "madame

speaker." nancy pelosi and the lessons of power. what a day to have you on with us. you were there yesterday, especially afterwards, i want to hear about the mother-in-law moment. we'll get to that. also with us, white house editor for "politico," sam stein. he's been filling in on "way too early" all week, and he's still standing. still standing. >> somehow. somehow. >> on friday. very good, sam. all right, boy, some pretty staggering moments during nancy pelosi's speech yesterday with the republicans, and i want to start with that because they won control of the house by a razor thin margin. you would think there's a lot of lessons there. the question political observers are asking is how they're going to use their power. if you thought house republicans would learn their lesson from the voters, what they said in the midterms, to moderate their divisive message a little bit, the answer came swiftly yesterday. they apparently are going full

steam ahead with an extreme polarizing agenda. "the new york times" offers this analysis, quote, the only results that interest many in the house majority are those that inflict political pain on joe biden, and congressional democrats as demanded by their maga constituents. in a closed door meeting of republicans on monday, right wing lawmakers including representative marjorie taylor greene of georgia extracted a promise that their leaders would investigate speaker nancy pelosi and the justice department for their treatment of, get this, defendants jailed in connection with the january 6th attack on the capitol. everyone at the table is now looking down in a sad kind of forlorn way. it is sick. it is disgusting. it's also really heartbreaking. the gop's snap back to quick

form, after kevin mccarthy, resurrected the disgraced former president's career weeks later by flying down to mar-a-lago and kissing the ring. this time it played out like this, the gop panicked in the wake of the midterms with one long time trump adviser saying the party has followed him off a cliff. then, just a day after clinching the house, former trump adviser steven miller was spotted walking into kevin mccarthy's office. the hot stove, they just keep putting their hand on it. in the campaign leading up to the midterms, most republicans said they would be focused on inflation, crime, and addressing the issues impacting the american people. they were trying to own those messages. in some ways even steal them from the democrats. but let's see how long that lasted. take a look. >> what americans want, need and deserve is a clear, common sense alternative. and that's what's happening with the house republicans. we will provide to the american

public a commitment to america. >> between inflation, crime and open borders, i think voters are all across the country are ready to change the path we're on. >> no more inflation, no more paying people not to work. no more broken supply chains and abandoned borders. >> the democratic party, they have majority, they could stop this crime today. some people say, well, they're soft on crime. no, they're not soft on crime. they're pro crime. >> these are not good numbers. 8% inflation, that's a bad number. >> the republican plan to improve the economy is two-fold, first of all we want to stop unnecessary spending. >> we have record inflation because democrats spent like crazy, paid people not to work and drove up the cost of energy. that's what republicans will focus on. >> this is the focus on the judiciary committee, the political nature of the justice department and the linkage to what was happening with the hunter biden story. >> my last question is what are the grounds to investigate?

>> this is kind of a big deal. >> wow, they cared so much. david ignatius, they cared so much about the issues confronting the country. >> there's a party seeking to reach out to america, be a governing party. >> and then it all came down one day later when they finally got their slim majority. they should have gotten a much bigger majority. they should have historically also gotten the senate. they got just creamed in the midterms. >> the republicans are already backed into a corner, and they just keep retreating. they keep narrowing their focus, their appeal. it's fascinating to see. one thing nancy pelosi was good at is leading her caucus. it's a tough job leading the republican caucus. he shows no sign of having the ability to do that. >> certainly not now. remember, he's still running for

speaker. he still has to get 218 votes on the floor to be speaker, and he's got to get them from the likes of marjorie taylor greene and jim jordan, and you know, all the republicans out there in the looney bin caucus, and so you could take an optimistic reading, if you didn't know kevin mccarthy, that he's, you know, he's playing to them now, and that maybe when he becomes speaker things change. however, i know kevin mccarthy. i don't think it's going to change. >> but they lost. i mean, trump has lost them time and time and time again. george conway, i know we're supposed to be looking at legal angles and trump has many, but what are they missing? the midterms was a lesson. they even said that. >> they're not missing anything because the looney bin caucus runs for reelection in districts that are purely red, and they have to cater to the maga base,

and it's all about them getting their pusses on fox news and talking about hunter biden and all of this stuff, and impeaching joe biden, and that's what we're going to see because there's just too many of them in the caucus that want that because that's what gets them in office. marjorie taylor greene. >> does it? >> it gets them reelected. >> okay. but if you're leading susan page, the republican gop, the republicans in congress, and you're looking at steve kornacki's big board, what are you saying. what do you bring? you get your pointer out, and you say here's what happened and here's the lesson of the midterms, do they want to learn it again over the next two years? what then do we look forward to for republicans in terms of if they go this way, does this work again? because it didn't work three times before. >> well, the problem they have, i think, kevin mccarthy or

whoever becomes speaker, we don't know for sure that it will end up being kevin mccarthy. everybody's joe manchin in the house republican caucus, right? every single republican member of the house is a king maker because he has no votes to lose. so how do you hold together a party that has marjorie taylor greene, and some members who were elected in districts that joe biden carried? you know, this is -- this would test someone with the skills of nancy pelosi. >> so speaking of marjorie taylor greene, we don't usually like, you know, we don't really talk about her that much. it just is too crazy. but this is worth looking at in terms of what portends over the next two years. house republicans are promising tougher scrutiny of financial aid to ukraine when the new term begins next year. congresswoman marjorie taylor greene has announced a resolution to audit funds

allocated to the war torn country and yesterday made this comparison. >> we had 5 million cross our border illegally since joe biden took office. and let's compare that to how many russians have invaded ukraine. 82,000 russians have invaded ukraine. i think the american people and the taxpayers of this country deserve to know why the biden administration and this congress is so interested in funding the protection of ukraine's border and not the protection of our border. that's a very good question. >> i don't know where to begin. is she willingly ignorant? is she trying very very hard to push some buttons? how do you even respond to that? >> you respond by saying it's outrageous. anyone who has seen the photographs of bucha and the corporations on the ground in bucha, who have seen the ruins of mariupol, a beautiful city in

southern ukraine, this is brutal investigation by russia and to compare it to america's border problems, which are serious and need to be addressed, but to compare it to a savage war just makes me wonder, you know, what planet she's on. >> what planet is she on? >> there were ukrainian soldiers that were brought up to the hill yesterday, and she was essentially saying, oh, if you don't want to see these wounded ukrainian soldiers, we have to see what these funds are going to, cut it off. >> i want to get to sam stein in a moment. i have a question for susan who knows nancy pelosi better than anybody. this was a crazy, ignorant, nasty dangerous statement that this woman made. marjorie taylor greene. ignorant. just as ignorant as it gets.

if someone in the democratic caucus of speaker pelosi said something of the same ilk, of the same level of ignorance, and also cruelty, given the fact that the ukrainians are working and killing themselves and fighting to the bone dying for the safety of the world, if someone in her caucus did something like that, what would she do? >> of course there have been occasions where nancy pelosi disciplined members of her own caucus. sometimes she worked behind the scenes when she felt a member of the caucus was saying things that were unwise or untrue. although, i can't remember an example of her facing a member who said something like this. and, you know, you called it dangerous. how dangerous our politics continue to be, which she saw in her own household. >> absolutely. i mean, she's been through hell

over the past few weeks, and would know more than anybody how dangerous our politics have become. sam stein, i know that you've been following a lot of polls. "politico" has been doing a lot of polls in terms of how republican extremism is playing in this country. we have seen, though, the actual results in the midterms about behavior like this, and yet they double down. >> yeah, and let me just say one thing about the comparison between the southern border and the war in ukraine. you know, first of all, it reflects the thinking in the republican party that this war, we stop the funding for it. it's not insensitive to ukrainians. it's incentive to people crossing the border, comparing them to an invading army, which we know is a type of rhetoric that has, you know, really resonated in bad ways online. so i just wanted to make that point, but i think and this gets to what you were sort of hinting

at, mika, you know, marjorie taylor greene for a couple of years has been this gab fly in the house minority, that you could more or less ignore even though she said deliberately outrageous things because she ultimately had no power, and the issue now is that she not only is in the majority, but because of the slimness of the majority, she has a tremendous amount of power. she can extract concessions from kevin mccarthy and others to pursue her agenda, and her agenda is objectively quite out there. the report that i was shocked by is that she wants house republicans to investigate the trials and jailing of january 6th riot attendees, which seems like a very peculiar priority for the new republican party, but if that's where they're going, that's where they're going. and so i do think that it's very valid at this point to actually

cover her because the power that she's accrued through this election process is enormous relative to her position. >> so gene robinson, is this our future? will aid to ukraine truly be debated? are we going to be looking at possibly people who committed crimes against our democracy, who went into our capitol and broke windows, hurt people, defecated in the hallways, tried to kill nancy pelosi and mike pence getting some sort of, i don't know, new day in court? >> well, look, there's going to be this crazy circus happening in the house because of the new republican majority, and as was said, the influence that the likes of marjorie taylor greene will have over it. so, you know, is that going to materially affect the way the trials of those who invaded the

capitol are proceeding or the jail time they're getting? i doubt it, but people will be hauled up to the hill to testify, i guess. maybe the attorney general, who knows. the big question, i think, is will the house be able to do its duty? what will it be able to do in terms of passing needed appropriations, keeping the government running, you know, just the basic stuff. i don't think we can expect much more than that from the house for the next couple of years, but the question is will we get even that? >> that's a good point at this moment. there was a notable reaction, we saw it as we were watching the video yesterday by many house republicans to nancy pelosi's speech, announcing that she is stepping down from leadership. the house chamber was packed with democratic lawmakers while the republican side was largely

empty. at several points, democrats stood for applause while republicans sat in silence. but minority leader kevin mccarthy who is hoping to succeed pelosi as house speaker next term did not even attend her speech. here's what he told reporters about why he didn't go. >> i had meetings, but normally the others would do it during votes. i wish she could have done that. i would have been there. >> minority whip steve scalise was the only member of the house gop leadership to attend pelosi's speech, and he showed up late. compare that to the senate side where minority leader mitch mcconnell put out a gracious statement offering his congratulations. he wrote in part this, the speaker and i have disagreed frequently and forcefully over the years, but i have seen firsthand the depth and intensity of her commitment to public service. there is no question that the impact of speaker pelosi's

consequential and path breaking career will long endure. that is, well, that's a kind, elegant, and now old school. >> it's the way our politics used to be. big retirement like this. >> end of an era. >> first woman to serve as speaker, an amazing career, a mother of five, and by the way, her husband was just attacked as a result of political violence. this would have been the moment to step up and show some grace. who raised you? who raised these people? i'm sorry, who raised you. who raised you, kevin mccarthy, who raised you, republicans in the house. seriously. try and imitate somebody with just an ounce of grace. try and make your mother proud for one second. it's disgusting. it's disappointing and not to me. you're the one who has to look in the mirror every day. anyhow, i digress.

>> and do you feel strongly about this? >> it's not like mitch mcconnell is embracing nancy pelosi's record, her policies, he has been saying she has been dedicated to the country, an effective leader, a patriot. thank you. that's all he was saying. >> the one question that interests me is whether the republicans will continue trying to get over the craziness of donald trump. the elections really were about republicans emerging from the period, a repudiation of trump's candidates, a party that was rejecting some of its most extreme elements, it seemed. you have people now running for president who want to actively reject the trump legacy. they want to make a break. and it will be fascinating to see how the house is pulled in that ballot. maybe, as gene says, the looney tune wing just dominates, and

the marjorie taylor greenes run the show. it may be other republicans running, who want to be president, who want to pull the party away from trump, may over the course of the congress have more influence than we might think now. >> we will see. you have to watch this day by day, but the first signs out of the box are really bad. >> not encouraging. >> honestly, a little lesson in grace. you can't find one thing about nancy pelosi, her career or the fact that she's stepping down that could have you show up and stand up and say thank you for your ground breaking leadership, maybe, i don't know, the door she's opened for women, the glass ceiling that she's broken. you can't find anything? you can find nothing? you have to be disgraceful? it's impossible. it's going to be a really tough time for the republican party moving forward. you would think that you would want to put yourself back together after demeanoring yourself to donald trump for so

many years after he loses for you over and over and over again, you lose and you keep bowing to his behavior thinking that's going to win. that's just stupid. that's just shortsighted. trumpism doesn't work. it doesn't bring the country together. it might work for a very small, very angry group of people who feel left out. and i would argue there might be a better way to communicate to people who feel left out. i think you could do it without being destructive to the country, but you just can't stop. it's like you're addicted. it's a cult. >> they are addicted. that's actually the point. they made a conscious decision to turn the party, allow the party to be turned into a personality cult, and a former colleague of mine put it on twitter yesterday, if you make that decision, how do you

jettison the personality that the cult has followed. how does that work. >> it's a good question. still ahead on "morning joe," we're going to be joined by house majority leader steny hoyer, who is also stepping down from democratic leadership. it will be his first interview since he made that announcement. big changes are ahead. plus, the biden administration grants legal immunity to mohammed bin salman, david ignatius has thoughts on that. and the projected loss in the race for arizona governor, republican kari lake makes a trip to mar-a-lago just to add to her play book of denial. and twitter is temporarily closing its offices amid a huge new wave of resignations. what's going on at twitter? and like who's watching it right now from the inside? what it means for elon musk and the future of the social media site, you're watching "morning

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♪3, 4♪ ♪ ♪hey♪ ♪ ♪are you ready for me♪ ♪are you ready♪ ♪are you ready♪ for a new generation to lead the democratic caucus, that i so deeply respect. and i'm grateful that so many are ready and willing to shoulder this awesome responsibility. a new day is dawning on the horizon, and i look forward, always forward, to the unfolding story of our nation, a story of light and love, of patriotism and progress, of many becoming one. and always an unfinished mission to make the dreams of today the reality of tomorrow. thank you all, may god bless you

and your families, and may god bless, continue to bless our veterans and the united states of america. it's been my privilege to play a part in forging extraordinary progress for the american people. i have enjoyed working with three presidents achieving historic investments in clean energy with president george bush. [ applause ] transforming health care reform with president barack obama. [ applause ] and forging the future from infrastructure to health care to climate action with president joe biden.

>> well, there's one notable president that she left out. she said she enjoyed with three presidents. she did enjoy that. and she left out trump because that was just not enjoyable. i'll just say it. but let's go right to the author of the book about the great nancy pelosi, and the end of the era that we're seeing right now, susan page. i mean, she started her career, her political career in her 40s after having five kids. her catholic religion really helped mold her values in terms of how she led, and it's actually one of the reasons why her great success in her 80s, really, we had her on the very first forbes 50 over 50 list because she's a woman who has achieved her greatest success and impact well over the age of 50 and paid it forward, and here she is doing it again. talk a little bit about the end of this era and the legacy that she leaves behind as a leader.

she's still going to serve. >> she wasn't a candidate until she was in her 40s, but she was in a political household when she was born. >> a world of politics. >> at 7 years old, she was holding the bible for her father to be inaugurated for the first of three terms as mayor of baltimore. her mother ran her husband's political operation, so she has politics in her dna, but she didn't run for office and didn't consider herself a potential candidate until late in life, really, a second career after being a mother and working as a volunteer and fundraiser and organizer in politics. she turned out to have this enormous political skill. you know, she wouldn't be a good presidential candidate, she's not a great orator, but when it comes to getting legislation passed, getting the votes together to pass a big controversial piece of legislation like the affordable care act, we haven't seen anyone in modern times with the skills that she's shown. >> her skills are amazing, and so one thing about nancy pelosi

that i didn't really learn until earlier this year. i happened to run into her at a reception during the nba playoffs, and she was a little sleepy because she had stayed up late the previous night watching a golden state warriors game on the west coast, which, you know, didn't finish until like 2:00 in the morning here, and it was a game that they lost by 39 points. she's a very knowledgeable nba fan, a warriors fan. and actually, somebody else was, during the conversation, i said, oh, yeah, the warriors lost by 40 points. no, it was 39. they lost by 39 points. it was not 40. >> she not only likes basketball, she drew a political lesson from basketball in her conversation yesterday with us. she said the rule of basketball is if in doubt, shoot, and number two, always be in doubt.

>> and some of the most incredible scenes. she's also a star on tiktok, nice job, idiot. and trying to deal with that presidency, her facial expressions and sometimes even her, you know, physical reactions were humorous, and at least they got us through it because it was a very dangerous and still is dangerous time for our country for sure. sam stein, the "wall street journal" editorial board has a new piece entitled nancy pelosi's lesson in power for house republicans, and it reads in part. republicans who disagree with mrs. pelosi on practically everything can still learn from her. how to effectively wield power. there's no denying that mrs. pelosi has been an effective house leader, the most powerful speaker in decades. were republicans paying attention? in last week's elections, the gop regained the house, but its

new majority will be as small as mrs. pelosi's current one. the narrow margin next year calls for a strong speaker and republican unity. if the gop wants to convince the electorate to give it a real mandate in 2024, it needs to show it can govern. instead, the old circular firing squad may be forming. mr. mccarthy's majority will be 222 at most. that number was enough for mrs. pelosi to avoid pointless brinksmanship in the past two years, and pass an agenda for mr. biden. mr. mccarthy and republicans could learn from the example, and sam stein, i mean, that's a really good point. whoever leads the house republicans is going to have to make it work with a lot of different factions and in the next two years, they're going to want to have shown they have

done something to improve the lives of the american people. aren't they? >> maybe not. honestly, they may be just as transparent about it as possible knowing they can't get legislation through a democratic senate, they may just stick to investigations and call it a day. but, yeah, they could probably use a lesson from nancy pelosi in terms of how to organize and pass legislation. i mean, the pelosi star that is the biggest encapsulation of her abilities was of course with obamacare when it looked like it was going to blow up and democrats were eager to just scale it back and do a piecemeal approach, she's like, if you're a counter fence, if it's a wall you catapult over the wall, and if it's too high you parachute in, and we'll get it done. that was grit and determination, and savvy and vote counting. she never brought legislation to the floor unless she had votes. she loved to win, but she also

did the hard work. and i guess i have a question for susan who's the best chronicler of pelosi, which was, what was it that was her secret sauce? was it fear? was it empathy? she knew everyone's names, she knew everyone's family members and birthdays and things likes that. what was that personal touch? was it just simply indefinable about how she was able to get the votes, count those votes, and rarely, if ever, miss a vote? >> it's not undefinable. it's all of the above. she understood every member in her caucus. she understood their districts and the history of their districts. she understood what would be a big favor for them. she raised a ton of dough. $1.3 billion since she went into the leadership. that is just a jaw dropping amount of money. and she also sometimes ruled by fear. you know, democratic members of congress respect and adore nancy pelosi, but a lot of them are kind of afraid of her.

one of them told me when she was pushing for the passage of the affordable care act, he said, if i vote for this, it will cost me my seat. she said, yes, it might do that. but you came here to do a job, not to have a job. he voted for it, and in fact, he lost his seat the next day. there were things she thought were worth losing a seat over and the affordable care act was one of those. >> david. >> i'm struck by what a tough leader pelosi was. i think the journal captured it. democratic caucus is fractured, not as much as the republican caucus. she had a progressive wing of her caucus that she had to send in the message, and kevin mccarthy, if he's going to be an effective speaker is going to have to take a caucus that's notoriously out of control, and turn it into a -- i think of pelosi of the footage that we all were able to see of her behavior on january 6th when

they're in that undisclosed room, and you know, who knows what's happening? their lives are threatened and she's cool as a cucumber. >> she sure was. >> incredible. >> she's saying to people, you do this, and we need to have this done. and, you know, she's not frightened. she's not agitated. she is the essence of a leader. and that's the person who over all of these years ran this caucus, and you knew to be afraid of her. >> she was tough, tough, tough. >> the first impeachment when she called the vote for impeaching donald trump the first time and she had the gavel and people started to cheer, and she made that zip zip. quiet. >> everyone feels like their mother has done that to them. >> she's a hard worker too. >> yes. >> the way she knew every member and what every member needed and what every caucus needed. she met with them constantly,

and took their temperature. she was very organized. of course she had her deputies out there feeling and counting votes for her. and she could count. she could really really count. >> she could turn out the count. >> you know, it's the end of an era and an incredible one, and i mean, whether you're a republican or a democrat, it's sort of hard not to be in awe of what she has accomplished. unless you're in a cult. coming up, we'll get much more reaction on nancy pelosi's legacy, when we're joined by democratic senator, amy klobuchar of minnesota. the senator is also calling out the companies involved in a major merger that is causing chaos in the concert industry as taylor swift's fans struggled to get tickets for a highly anticipated tour. that's all straight ahead on "morning joe."

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so boost your bottom line by switching today. comcast business. powering possibilities. ™ welcome back to "morning joe," 44 past the hour. some of the other stories we're following this morning. north korea fired an intercontinental ballistic missile that landed near japanese waters. a major weapons test that showed the potential to launch nuclear strikes that could reach the entirety of the u.s. mainland. is this something we should be concerned about? >> yes, the simple reason is north korea has been specific in saying that it no longer seeks dialogue with the united states as a counter way to russia and china. the days when its nuclear program would be a bargaining chip for some future relations is finished. kim jong un was very specific in september in saying that. these tests have followed and i

think many people are afraid that what comes next is another nuclear test. >> not good. the u.s. quickly condemned the launch and vowed to take all necessary measures to guarantee the safety of its territory and its allies. the launch comes one day after a smaller missile launch by the north and its warning of fiercer military responses to the u.s. boosting its regional security presence. we will be watching that story. and workers at more than 100 u.s. starbucks locations have gone on strike. the largest labor action since a push began last year to unionize the company's stores. workers chose one of the company's busiest days of the year, red cup day, when the company gives free, reusable cups to customers who order a holiday drink. the striking workers are seeking better pay, more consistent schedules and higher staffing levels in busy stores. we'll be following that. and hundreds of twitter

employees appear to have called elon musk's bluff, resigning, en masse, after he delivered an ultimatum to stay or leave. musk gave employees until 5:00 p.m. yesterday to stay and follow his vision or leave with three months severance. musk and his advisers were left scrambling when hundreds opted to leave. forcing the company to try and ask many to stay. i'm curious, when we're in this labor environment, gene robinson, overall, there are a lot of articles and anecdotal evidence that people are pulling back from jobs they don't like, right, fair to say. >> exactly. that's what they're doing. >> this seems like a dumb thing to offer to people if you don't want them to leave. >> and despite some layoffs in silicon valley, it's pretty easy to find a job these days, still, and you know, elon musk,

$44 billion and he just seems to, you know, every week, take $10 billion and set it on fire. >> double down, double down. >> musk appeared to soften his stance on remote work with twitter later announcing it would deactivate employees' badge access at the office until monday. twitter previously laid off half of its 7,500 person staff, sometimes publicly, causing many people to question the future of the social media site. i think twitter, david ignatius, is in question. >> i'll say. >> i'm not sure that's a bad thing. >> musk's tweets have been painful to read. he did have one yesterday that was funny. how do you make a large fortune in social media? i got this backwards, how do you make a small fortune on social media. answer, start with a large fortune. and that's what elon musk did. he started with an enormous

stack of capital, and he's just whittling it down day by day. >> in a lot of ways, it's a sewer, and a lot of bad things happen on twitter. i'm not sure where this is going to go. it hasn't been a completely positive thing for our civil conversation, our discourse across the country. >> it's been useful for a lot of people. it really has been. >> there was always another side to it with social media. >> absolutely. >> facebook too. >> absolutely. i mean, i, you know, don't get me started on facebook, so, you know, it's absolutely there are two sides to the coin. now, however, we're at the point where can the site run? are there enough people there to run it? >> and what's going to happen? >> one day will it just like freeze up and that's that. >> or it just becomes even worse on its negative sides. we have senator amy klobuchar of minnesota standing by. i was going to actually do the taylor swift story, and ask you

about that. we'll get to it because you have some things to say, but twitter, go. >> yeah, as you know i have been way out front on this for a long time, and this isn't just twitter, as you just pointed out, eugene. this is also about all of these companies. there are no rules of the road in place. we have no federal privacy law. we have state ones. we have no competition policy for tech that applies to tech, something i have been trying to change. we have no rules when it comes to do they get to keep their immunity when they're actually amplifying hate speech and making money off of it. it is one thing when someone posts something and sends an e-mail, puts something out there, and you own a company on which they did it. it is another when you are amplifying it and making money off of it. there are ways as other countries have done that we could put rules in place. i think this should be a major focus for the congress next year. i think we have to, as well as getting everything we can get done by the end of this year.

because nothing has happened. yes, he seems to be, unexplainablely doing everything to run this company to the ground. i don't understand it. it is cyber employees, all kinds of things, engineers leaving, but there is more than that. that is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to no rules in place. >> it is the tip of the iceberg and not only the social media site that we as a country are struggling with. you have been working on trying to get some accountability, and i ask why would your republican counter parts or anybody in washington not want to fix what is a growing problem of disinformation flying across, you know, i guess the internet air waves or whatever you want to call it, whether it's facebook, twitter, and becoming destructive to not only our discourse, but to people's lives. >> exactly. well, there have been republicans that have been willing to talk about eliminating or limiting section

230. >> right. section 230. >> which means you can be sued if you're amplified and making money. they're protected, other companies aren't protected. that's the first thing. the second is strengthening the antitrust laws, we have a chance of allowing our justice department enforcers to get more funds by just passing the bill that senator grassley and i have, which is already past the house to change the merger fee. that's where i want to put the taylor swift fans on that, on the antitrust. that story of ticket master, separate from the tech companies, that is a story of a monopoly gone wild. >> here's the ticket master story, and then continue, but ticket master has now cancelled planned public sale of tickets for taylor swift's upcoming tour, this is a mess, cite extraordinary high demand on tickets and insufficient

inventory. any tickets leftover from this week's presales, ticket master says it received 3 1/2 billion ticket requests on the first day of presales tuesday. i saw it coming. taylor swift, you guys, come on. come on ticket master, it's swift. that's nearly four times its previous peak. 2 million tickets were sold that day. taylor swift has not responded to a request for comment. go ahead, antitrust. >> so in 2010, live nation and ticket master were allowed to merge. the combined company now has 70% of ticket sales. so in truth, there's no other choice. and that's what's going on. there is a monopoly. they also have quickly and quietly bought so many venues and arenas so it is a vertical integration. that's why we are pushing the justice department to look at this and to look back at that consent decree of which they have power over that consent decree. i talked to senator mike lee

last night. we chair the committee on antitrust. we are going to go ahead with the hearing on ticket master this year. and so i think you're going to start seeing a lot of questions. it is not just about taylor swift. this has been going on. it's about prices, hidden fees that are way too high. it's about site disruptions and the kind of thing, and of course you could anticipate it, but where else are you going to go to sell your tickets when there's only one game in town. >> so from taylor swift, one powerful woman to another, speaker nancy pelosi, susan page wrote the book. you have worked side by side with her for years, and i just would love for you to talk a little bit about your experiences with her and also this moment of her stepping down, i believe my gosh, second in line to the presidency, one of the most powerful people in the world, what comes to mind, i

say gratitude for her service. >> i say strength. when she flipped on the sunglasses after taking on trump on another government shut down. that was it for me. i think it just shows at any moment she has in her small frame, she is able to exhibit strength. strength in dealing with a closed caucus many times with a lot of different views. keeping her eyes on what matters, getting the affordable care act passed, investing more in bringing down greenhouse gases, doing something about climate change than any leader, working with senator schumer, our leader in the senator to get things done, working with presidents, george bush on, first woman speaker and we're so proud of her, and i loved when senator mcconnell made beautiful comments about her because there is no doubt there is respect for

her no matter how strongly they disagreed with her, she was able to get things done because she would never turn. she would always straight on lead. >> susan, your thoughts given what senator pelosi had to say. i'll add when i interviewed nancy pelosi, about what her greatest achievement, she did say it was the affordable care act, right from the get go, that was just, you look at what happened after and how she stood up to president trump time and time again, even at times lorded over him, this is a woman to the full extent for this country. >> demonized by republicans.

the favorite target of republicans, depicted as a witch and a devil, some of that was misogyny, and also routinely underestimated. you know, i think that through her career until the end, others often did not understand exactly what they were coming up against when they were facing nancy pelosi. just one other thing, looking at what she's going to do now. so it was a little bit of a surprise that she decided to stay. >> yes. >> in the congress even after stepping back from the leadership. she told us yesterday that when her husband was attacked. some people felt she was compelled to go home to california. she said it made her more likely to stay in washington. >> that seems right. >> because she did not want to give them the satisfaction of having her step down. >> that's right. you're damn right. that seems very what we know of her. quickly, sorry, alex, the mother-in-law line. >> we asked her yesterday what advice was she going to give her

successor, and she said thanksgiving is coming. i'm not going to be the mother-in-law who goes into the kitchen and says you're making the stuffing wrong. that's not how we make the stuffing in this family. she is not going to give advice to her successor, which is a statement, i believe, is untrue. >> absolutely. i'll take it. >> she has commented about stuffing before thanksgiving in interviews. >> nancy, you can come to my kitchen and tell me what to do, i would take it. just give the advice to whoever is getting that advice. take it. senator amy klobuchar, always good to see you. thank you for coming up. i know you had a late night last night. >> presiding until midnight. >> it's all good. >> and susan, this is amy's book, her new memoir is entitled "the joy of politics," boy, did we just talk about it in a way. >> exactly. you can choose cynicism and fear or you can choose joy in this job. you can choose. >> this comes out in anyway.

>> yeah, about overcoming a lot of obstacles. >> we look forward to that. thank you very much. >> susan page, thank you as well, your book, "madam speaker," what an incredible time to look back on the career and legacy of nancy pelosi, still serving but stepping down as the first woman speaker of the house. and sam stein, congrats on surviving this week. >> it was a lot. it was a lot. >> that was a lot. >> yeah, babies and everything you do. we appreciate it. you did good. almost as good as lemire. thank you, sam. we appreciate. you were wonderful. still ahead, the nation is facing a new housing crisis that is squeezing potential first time home buyers out of the market. steve rattner will join us with charts that explain why. plus, congressman steny hoyer is among the top democrats stepping away from positions in the party. the house majority leader will

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youour cidedentase e woh than insurance offered? call the barnes firm now to find out. yoyou ght t beurprpris one of our highest priorities under a republican congress will be to stop left wing censorship and restore free speech. >> this is the focus on the judiciary committee, the political nature at the justice department and the linkage now to what was happening with the hunter biden story. >> we wanted to get to the bottom of the origination of covid-19. >> i'm really happy dr. fauci is retiring. that's going to give a lot of time for him to sit in our committees. >> we can impeach secretary mayorkas. we can impeach merrick garland. >> i'm introduces articles of impeachment against joe biden on monday. >> think of someone like you. >> those are the priorities of

the upcoming house majority, get ready, everybody. they said they wanted to focus on inflation, that democrats weren't focused on crime, they weren't focused on gas price. up until yesterday, it was inflation, crime, gas prices. now, today, what a difference a day makes. it's hunter biden. it's all hunter, hunter, hunter, and whatever else. they want to impeach joe biden. i don't know where the priorities went, they continue. they continue with their extreme agenda, and we've got to figure out why at this point because i don't see the info that shows that it's working per se. welcome back to "morning joe." it's friday, november 18th. david ignatius is still with us, and joining the conversation here in washington, we have national political correspondent for "axios," jonathan swan joining us. he will soon be joining "the new york times." that's exciting. are you excite snd. >> -- excited.

>> i will not make you laugh. >> i promise i won't. >> i want you to before the show is over. >> see. staff writer at the atlantic, mark leibovich, and "new york times" washington bureau chief, elizabeth miller up early for us, and denver is former white house press secretary under president obama, robert gibbs and in new york, former treasury official and "morning joe" economic analyst, steve rattner with charts on the housing market. it's a painful one this morning, and steve's going to walk us through it. so republicans won control of the house by a razor thin margin, and the question political observers were asking is how they're going to use their power. if you thought the house republicans would learn their lesson from the voters in the midterms, these historic midterms, to moderate their divisive message, which didn't seem to work per se, the answer came very swiftly yesterday. they apparently are going full trump, full steam ahead with an

extreme polarizing agenda. "the new york times" offers this analysis, quote, the only results that interest many in the house majority are those that inflict political pain on mr. biden, and congressional democrats as demanded by their maga constituents. in a closed door meeting of republicans on monday, right wing lawmakers included representative marjorie taylor greene of georgia, extracted a promise that their leaders would investigate speaker nancy pelosi, and the justice department, get this, it's hard to even say, for their treatment of defendants jailed in connection with the riot on january 6th, the attack on the capitol. the gop's swift snapback to true form was quicker than when kevin mccarthy denounced trump after january 6th. remember that? only to resurrect the disgraced former president's political career weeks later by flying

down to mar-a-lago. this time, it played out like this, the gop panicked in the wake of the midterms with the one long time trump adviser saying the party has followed him off a cliff. then, just a day after clinching the house, former trump adviser steven miller was spotted walking into kevin mccarthy's office, and yesterday came this news conference from house republicans. >> this investigation will be a top priority. >> the biden family's business dealings, implicate human traffic to violations of the constitution. >> i don't want this to be about the prostitute. here's the thing, hunter biden isn't this innocent guy who has a bad rap because he had a drug problem. our investigation is about joe biden. >> i'm wondering if you might be able to confirm your committees will be investigating speaker pelosi and the department of

justice for their treatment of defendants jailed in connection with january 6th, a promise that potentially speaker mccarthy a made to the house freedom caucus earlier this week? >> we're focused on how political our justice department has become. >> my last question is what are the grounds to investigate? >> this is kind of a big deal. >> if we can keep it about hunter biden, that would be great. >> i just want to let that rest a little bit. this news conference, people were asking questions. jonathan swan, i want to get the assessment of where we think these republicans are really going to go for the next two years with this and if this is what they stick with after everything they have learned. your reaction to them trying to corral this news conference, especially the last gentleman there to keep it to hunter biden. >> none of this is surprising because these members have been empowered by kevin mccarthy to do all of this because kevin mccarthy is fighting for his

life right now. he's trying to become the speaker. >> does this help him become speaker? >> yes, because he has a problem on his right flank. that's where his problem is. people like matt gaetz, marjorie taylor greene, if you don't think that she has extracted an incredible price for public defending kevin mccarthy, for saying we need him as our speaker, she can name her price. she is so empowered in this new majority, and kevin mccarthy is trying desperately to get the hard right flank of his conference to vote for him for speaker. that is his immediate priority, and so what you see there is, no, of course they're not chasing. of course they haven't absorbed all of these lessons from the midterms, no, they're barrelling right ahead. >> barrelling straight ahead. so elizabeth, trumpism may save kevin mccarthy's career, but when you look at the math of, i don't know, the past three elections, does it help them in the next two years become more

powerful? >> i don't see how it helps them in the long-term. i think that if, i mean, they've given up on legislation. they're figuring they're not going to get anything through anyways because of their numbers in the house and because of the democratic senate, so this works in the short-term for kevin mccarthy, in the long-term i don't see how this is going to impress voters, certainly not swing voters, independent voters and moderate republicans left. when you look at what this congress will have accomplished in 2024 when the presidential election rolls around. it will be a circus on the hill. if they impeach the attorney general, if they impeach other members of the cabinet, those impeachments aren't going anywhere. there will not be a conviction in the senate. there will be a lot of noise, a lot of money spent, a lot of wasted time, and at the end, i don't see what they have to show for it, other than keeping their base extremely happy. >> thank you for your servitude, your book. >> perfect segue. >> perfect segue. so they accomplished that.

>> sure. >> what else will the republicans be able to accomplish in the next two years if that's their prevailing force? >> oh, nothing. i mean, what we're seeing, what that was, besides, i think, foolish and i agree with elizabeth, that's not going to turn any swing voters and turn around the essential sort of sickness of the republican party, you know, in the way the public views it. what it is is a vacuum. not only is kevin mccarthy empowered these folks to talk about this all the time, the marjorie taylor greenes of the world, he is feckless in this situation, at least until the leadership thing is squared away, they can run wild. in a normal world, a new majority no matter how big or small the majority is would have the experience message people with some kind of coherent, generally, you know, they get attacks or small government or crime related messages, somewhat

disciplined. in lieu of that, you have that. >> there's no universe in which she could have, a leader of the republican house conference cannot exist who can bring these people, you know, into obedience. i'm not sure who this human being could be that could get 218 votes because the conference is never going to -- the house freedom caucus has dug in. if you talk to these members, they're not supporting someone who's going to try and discipline them. it's just simply not happening. they're going to publicly threaten them. this has been building for a long time. there's not a human being on earth, whoever it is, whether it's kevin mccarthy or whoever replaces him, they're going to be dominated and dragged around by this group of people. >> history shows that being the leader of the republican caucus in recent years has been impossible. you look at paul ryan, you look at john boehner, they were devoured by extreme members of their caucus, and there's every sign that that will happen to kevin mccarthy. the only difference right now, i

think, is that there is going to be a move from ambitious republican politicians who want to replace donald trump as the candidate in 2024. you know, like mike pompeo, and his argument very specifically is we need to stop looking backward. we need to stop focusing on the hunter biden's, relitigating the issues before. we need to move forward and have a real program. and candidates like that and that message begins to get traction, that's going to pose a real dilemma. >> that's so interesting. the republican forces who might run against or play against trump, how they fit into this dynamic. >> they're be looking for support in the house. and they'll be trying to pick off some of the more reasonable people in swing districts. >> if he moves beyond 1% in the polls. >> we'll see. we'll see. >> robert gibbs, given the dynamic in the house and given the hearings they pledged to

have, everything from trying to impeach joe biden, i don't know, investigate nancy pelosi, hunter, hunter, hunter, how do democrats approach this to in some way, to make it an advantage for them? is it possible? >> yeah, i think first and foremost, you step back and watch it happen. i think mitch mcconnell was right about this. republicans under performed with independents because they seemed extreme and out of the mainstream. i don't see how this helps one single bit. and then i think democrats come in and remind families in districts all over the country. they're working on an agenda making health care more affordable, making prescription drugs more affordable, making college more affordable, versus what you're seeing on the republican side with investigations and impeachments. i actually think it's why a

number of people have thought losing control of the house might be a political gain for democrats, as much as it was for bill clinton in 1994 or barack obama after the 2010 election. it allows them to play off of those house republicans. it's clear that kevin mccarthy may be the speaker of the house, but he's not going to be in control of the house of representatives. >> interesting. the backdrop of all of this is the big news about speaker nancy pelosi stepping down from her leadership position, and steny hoyer as well. both saying it's time for a new generation of leaders to step up. hoyer will be our guest this morning. elizabeth, if we could just take a moment to just mark the end of this era and, by the way, ending, again, with a lot of disgraceful behavior by republicans in congress and even during her announcement. not showing up, not clapping. acting just like they were raised in a barn. i mean, seriously, they don't

know how to be polite. this is not what i'm used to in washington. i've seen vicious fights happening between right and left here in washington. but when you're picking up each other's kids at school, your parents, your americans, your patriots, you're respectful of each other. they were disrespectful, even during this announcement. your thoughts on that, and also her legacy as the first woman speaker of the house. >> well, first of all, it's an extraordinary legacy. for 20 years, the most powerful woman in washington for much of that time. she was always, i have to say, underestimated. >> always. >> always. by everybody that she was, you know, she was too old to speak, you know, be a member of the ground swell against her the last time. she was too old. she was never going to get these votes through. but look at what she did. we have talked about the affordable care act. she pushed through all the biden legislation, with a very small margin. she was tough. we ran a great series of photos

of her in the times this morning and last night, and you forget, you know, there's the great photo of nancy pelosi shaking her finger at donald trump in the cabinet room. there's the great photo of her in the oval office arguing with trump, coming out with that famous coat and her sunglasses. you know, so in this town, where women still do not hold as much power as they should, she was really an outlier, and she was an example to a lot of women. >> ground breaking for women. that's why she was on the first forbes 50 over 50 list at the sort of top of the ranking because her career is true tli -- truly incredible and her impact at all stages of her life is incredible. and steve rattner, i know you want to talk the economy. you have charts on the housing crisis. chime in on nancy pelosi, given your knowledge and experience with her. >> sure.

you know, i obviously saw her as one of her donors, one of her supporters. i have to say i was initially a little bit skeptical. i had read somewhere that said her district in san francisco was the fifth most liberal district in the country, so i didn't quite know what she would be all albany. she turned out to be, as you have heard from others, incredibly pragmatic, get things done speaker. i saw her. goot to know her as one of her supporters, her energy and all of that was incredible. last time i had dinner with her, a month or so ago, she came to new york, started meetings at 8:00 in the morning, dinner at 7:00, completely tentative on her game, not in a hurry. the famous line about her is she was a little bit like ginger rogers, she did everything fred astaire did except backwards and in heels, large heels for the that matter. she was hands on and didn't hide behind staff and give you a couple of quick anecdotes. she called me one morning the

day before thanksgiving when she was being challenged for speaker, i think it was 2016, because she knew i knew a member who was sort of wavering about supporting her, and again, called me personally, and said would you mind calling so and so and make your case for why i should be reelected speaker, which obviously i was happy to do. she was also much more of a policy person than people give her credit for. i wouldn't say she was a wonk, obviously, but she was deep into it. and i also remember getting a call from her, again, herself, no staff, just on my cell phone one night, because she was working on some policy issue that she thought had relevance to what i had done on the auto rescue, and wanted to know how we had handled a certain issue because it might be applicable to whatever she was working on at the moment. it was really quite remarkable. she's also going to have an incredibly capable successor, hakeem jeffries, which we should also talk about now or at some point because he's going to be an important figure in the democratic caucus. >> we'll be talking about definitely who's going to be

taking the reins in a moment. i'm curious, robert gibbs, you were there as the affordable care act, they were trying to push it over the finish line, and there was a lot of struggle. and when i interviewed nancy pelosi with the forbes know your value 50 over 50 list, and i was talking to her about her career, i said aside from your five kids, because i have to put that aside. greatest accomplishment in life, and without hesitation, she says it was health care. it was the affordable care act. if you could talk a little bit about what you saw during that time. yeah, and i think president obama would say this as well. without nancy pelosi, there isn't an affordable care act. it would have died. and there were many many opportunities where we didn't think that we could get this over the finish line. and the one person that would never take that for an answer was speaker nancy pelosi. she willed that caucus to, again and again and again tackle

affordable health care. to push this bill over the line. again, lots of different avenues in which this could have died. but were it not for her strength and for her passion in this, it may well have happened, and i think there's no doubt that her imprint on that bill, and her imprint on that process shows you exactly the type of speaker she was. she listened. she gathered information, but then she moved to get something done. she was results oriented. and again, without her, that bill doesn't pass. we would still be talking about trying to get health care reform done. >> she talks about that today as her most proud achievement. there was many more after including just handling crisis, and there was so much crisis that she was at the center of in the years after that. and so i'm curious, you know, anymore thoughts jonathan swan on that, and also anybody here at the table, thoughts on the new leadership that now may come

into the spotlight given that we have two leaders stepping down and making space for a new generation. jonathan swan, we'll go around the table. >> it's hard to overstate how much she is revered in this town for her legislative talent. >> yeah. >> and i talk to republicans who despise her, truly at a visceral level, but then in the next breath will sort of say i wish we had a nancy pelosi. >> someone like her. >> yeah, and you hear that again and again. it doesn't matter who you're talking to, when end of the conference. so there was huge respect, actually, on the other side, they just didn't say it publicly. and hakeem jeffries has a huge deficit, actually, in legislative accomplishment. he just does. he's got lots of other skills that the conference likes him, supports him, no one doubts that he's going to become the leader. no one doubts his abilities but he doesn't have her acumen as a

legislative tactician, and that is a huge gap. it just is. >> hakeem jeffries has two big advantages. one, he has nancy pelosi still a member of congress. >> right. >> available to consult him, whisper in his ear, and second, i think he has the progressive caucus wanting him to succeed. nancy pelosi in the last two years has struggled with the progressive caucus. it's not been easy to control. the white house is chafed. why can't we get this done. and that will be much easier, i think, for hakeem jeffries, so replacing nancy pelosi, no easy job, but he's got her to kind of teach him and guide him in the beginning. >> mark. >> i am actually curious to see what role nancy pelosi herself plays? >> exactly. i want to see it. >> he is still in congress. i don't know if they asked her to stay on just sort of as an informal adviser, and maybe she

won't run again, who knows. but i think she'll play a significant role as an adviser. she's close to jeffries, close to a lot of people who will be involved in the committees. it should be fun to watch. >> she's going to want him to succeed. that's going to be a priority for her. >> there was a great quote, i don't want to be the mother-in-law in the kitchen. >> but she will be. >> the next generation, hakeem jeffries and the others potentially being talked about. >> they're untested. >> this is going to be a big change. >> the previous generation had to step down, and they were, you know, all in their 80s. i think they're untested. i think it's going to be bumpy in the beginning. i think they're going to be, you know, dealing with that really noisy, you know, intense right wing. it's going to be hard to get what they want done. it's hard to be in the minority. so, you know, it's not going to be the same, and i think that -- but you're right, he has a lot

of goodwill, and katherine clark, and aguilar are good lieutenants. >> yeah, but i don't think it's going to be easy at all. mark leibovich, thank you very much and robert gibbs. still ahead, we'll talk to house minority leader steny hoyer about what's ahead for democrats in the new term. and more on the mass exodus at twitter after an ultimatum for elon musk who does not his v his finger on the pulse of how people are feeling about working these days. we'll have the latest on the chaos inside the social media giant. also ahead, mortgage rates dropped this week, but new data shows first time home buyers are being squeezed out of the market. steve rattner has charts. and a winter storm is hitting buffalo with potentially historic levels of snow. it's serious enough that the nfl is not taking any chances this weekend.

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put uc in check and keep it there, with rinvoq. ask your gastroenterologist about rinvoq. and learn how abbvie could help you save. welcome back to "morning joe." 28 past the hour. a live look at the white house. a beautiful day here in washington, d.c. and it's great to be here and have everybody around the table. the biden administration has determined that saudi arabia's crown prince should be considered immune from a lawsuit over the 2018 killing of u.s.-based journalist and "washington post" columnist, jamal khashoggi. the state department says mohammad bin salman is legally immune from such a lawsuit because he's the sitting head of government of a foreign nation. the decision is nonbinding and a judge will ultimately rule on whether to grant immunity.

khashoggi was killed in the saudi consulate in istanbul, turkey, back in 2018. the cia leader concluded that bin salman had ordered the killing. khashoggi's fiance then sued the crown prince in u.s. court in 2020. but a federal judge in d.c. asked the u.s. government last month to weigh in on the case and david ignatius, here we are now. i know you're writing about this. you have been writing about this, too, as well over the years since this happened. your thoughts and analysis? where does this go. >> jamal khashoggi was our colleague, was my personal friend. it's now four years after his murder, and it's a painful thing for everybody at the newspaper. the idea that he has been granted immunity from lawsuits in america, including a lawsuit brought by his fiance grieving for him, is painful for us to

accept. the state department says since he was elevated to the post of prime minister, he's crown prince now, prime minister, he in effect automatically gets the status due to a head of government and has sovereign immunity as it's called from lawsuits, and it is true that the prime ministers get that grant of sovereign immunity. what's disturbing here is that the decision to elevate him to prime minister that was made by his father kill salman came three days before the deadline that judge base had set for a ruling on this question from the justice department and the state department of whether he was entitled to immunity. in other words, this was the only way he was going to get it, and it came in at the 11th hour. the trump administration for all of its embrace of mbs, never gave him the immunity he wanted. he has been seeking immunity

since 2020, 2021. the trump administration left office without acting on that request. and it's disturbing that the biden administration ends up doing what donald trump himself wouldn't do. >> did the state department have a choice? >> the state department says basically this was a purely legal matter, we didn't have a choice. he's a prime minister under any normal procedures he would be granted this, so you have to take that in. there was another argument that this is a policy decision, that given the seriousness of human rights, problems in saudi arabia, and there are cases since president biden visited the kingdom in july and had the famous fist bump with mbs, there have been additional american citizens, saudi americans who have been detained, who are on travel bans.

these problems in saudi arabia are continuing. and now there will be no legal recourse in the united states. >> you would think there would be an asterisk there for somebody who's specifically accused of ordering the killing of a u.s. resident. >> and what are the consequences of making a different decision? >> good question. >> so you would have put mbs, he would argue, in a special category unlike other prime ministers and that would have further distanced the united states from saudi arabia, so the answer might well be so what. you know, the cia after looking at this carefully concluded that jamal khashoggi, "washington post" contributor, was murdered in an operation that had been specifically approved by mbs. we're hoping that that the actual cia report will be declassified soon, the national archives is working hard to make that public.

so we can all read precisely what the cia said. but i think that's a factor. if judge bates, who's the judge in this case, brought by khashoggi's fiance, seeking justice and accountability in the death of her fiance. if she were to seek that that evidence from the cia about how her fiance came to be killed is relevant to this judgment. maybe judge base would say, i'm sorry, i see the recommendations from the state department. i'm not going to accept it. >> saudi arabia policy, it's going to be one of, if not one of the most incoherent elements of joe biden's policy agenda because this is someone who's extremely experienced in foreign affairs. who comes in, presumably on the campaign trail, is not loosely saying we should make him a pariah but has done so with some

forethought about what that means. joe biden is aware of the dimensions of the saudi arabia relationship. we need this country for x, y and z. to say we're going to make them a pariah, recenter foreign policy around human rights, to come into office and starting to act on that, and have this dizzying reversal, and the fist bump and the retraction, it's hard to know where they stand on this policy. if i was interviewing joe biden, i would love to ask him about this. >> i would love for you to do that. >> trust me, i have been trying. >> we'll get it done. >> it's deeply embarrassing. i want to say humiliating for biden to have gone seeking support from mbs, and to have gotten basically the back of his hand. no support on oil at a time when it's strategically critical for the united states. and to have this additional

move, again, state department says it's pro forma, it's not a policy decision. well, in the end, everything is a policy decision. >> exactly. >> and if there ever were a set of circumstances, we need you to say no, this would be the set of circumstances. we'll continue this conversation. this is not over yet. also, coming up after the break, we're going to check in with steve rattner, get an update on the economy as it pertains to housing prices, especially a focus on first time buyers, really feeling the squeeze. also coming up, the war in ukraine. we'll get the latest there and the growing concerns just over a month away from winter, how that's going. russia's latest attack on energy facilities comes as ukraine is seeing its first snowfall. plus, the bizarre story of a former russian intelligence officer who's now seeking asylum in the country that he used to spy on. we'll be joined by the reporter who landed that exclusive

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look, the christmas tree is up, almost, they have the scaffolding up still. it looks like it might be a little better than last year's, that skimpy twig they put up. that was a mistake. this year it looks like the 30 rock christmas tree is going to be huge, magnificent. they're going to light it on november 30th. so you all going to be there celebrating in the cold? >> going to bring my ice skates. >> i want to watch from home. >> you can bring your ice skates and go skating, david, do you skate? >> i do. when i had interviews in new york, i occasionally go skating. >> i learn to believe david ignatius when he says i jet ski.

>> off to interview henry kissinger. i just got to get loose, got my ice skates, fell on my butt. >> i'm always impressed. we're going to talk about the economy and the housing market which has been brutal as interest rates were rising and rising and dipping a little bit. steve rattner, you have charts on this, tell us where we are, especially for first time home buyers who looks like they're struggling a great mika, new nu out from the national association of realtors, it stunned me. i had no idea things in the housing market were so bad for people trying to break in, including people of color, and we can show you this here on the left, and you can see on the left, the age of first time -- sorry, the percentage of first time housing buyers has dropped in literally one year from 34% to 26% of all first time housing

buyers, so they're getting squeezed on that end, and then you can look on the right and see what's happening to people of color, and as you know, the percentage of people of color in this country has been rising, the red line at the bottom. so the white share has dropped from 75% to 62%, just of the general population in this country. but the percentage of home buyers who are white, again, jumped last year, and it's now 88% of first time home buyers are people who are white, relative to the 62% of the market, of the population are people of color. you just see them getting squeezed out on that end. and then you can -- so the reason for why is i think probably pretty self-evident to people. which is a combination of high mortgage rates as well as high home prices, and so on the left, you can see what's been happening to home prices, the average home prices reached $385,000, up in just a year from

$356,000, and that's after adjusting for inflation. and if you go back to the bottom of the financial crisis, and around 2012, again, adjusted for inflation, house prices are over $228,000. so they've gone up by well more than 50% over that period of time, after adjusting for inflation. on the right, you can see what's happened with mortgage rates, dropping, dropping, dropping, since really going back to the 2000s with interest rates, got below 3%, then got over 7% a couple of weeks ago, and now as you said earlier, have dropped slightly to the high 6s. those two things squeeze people, they have high home prices and they have high financing costs. and you can see here what's really been the impact of that, so if you take a typical home buyer, an average american, which is $70,000 roughly of pre-tax income. $56,000 of after tax income, trying to buy the typical house. they were looking at payments on

a mortgage, assuming they financed 80% of their house of $1,200 a month, for a long period of time, you can go back before this, and now between what i talked about before with house prices and what i talked about mortgage rates, that typical monthly payment is now $2,200 a month. so literally in a year, a typical payment for someone buying a typical house with a typical income has gone from $1,200 a month to $2,200 a month, which is why you see what i started with, so many people being squeezed out of the market, and again, particularly people of color. >> elizabeth. >> so steve, it's elizabeth. good morning. >> good morning. >> i have a couple of questions. one, this is going to be a political problem for the biden administration in the next two years obviously. what can the white house do about this if anything, is it all dependent on the fed? if you're a policy maker in the white house, what do you do? >> it's a great question, elizabeth. probably there's not a lot you

can get done. we did after the gfc put this a tax credit for first time home buyers, which raised that percentage very substantially for a short period of time. of course as we were talking about earlier, the chances of getting legislation through the house and the new complexion is pretty low. the stuff they could do if they had control of congress, but without it, it's pretty limited. that gets us back to interest rates and the fed and what we need, as painful as it will be is the process of getting inflation down to work through the system. interest rates come down, and that also actually will take some pressure off the housing market, and so hopefully in the fullness of time, you'll see some reversal of this. we probably do need in a better world a set of policies aimed particularly at first time home buyers, and particularly people of color. >> and david ignatius, you can take it to steve, but the rental market isn't any prettier. this is really locking people out. >> it is locking people out.

it's frightening to think about being a young home buyers, renter. looking at those charts, i was wondering if we were looking at a housing asset bubble tast that's about to burst. prices have continued to go up as mortgage rates have gone up and at some point the house price chart begins to collapse, doesn't it? >> i don't know if it's a boom or something more gradual. house prices, which we can talk about on another day have begun to roll over a bit. for all of these reasons that people simply can't afford to buy them, and so you are seeing them start to come down, but it's just a small amount relative to the amount that they went up. but, yes, definitely you're going to see pressure on house prices in the coming months. >> steve rattner, thank you very much. i think we'll be talking about this a lot more in the weeks and months to come and watching it closely. appreciate it. also, russian air strikes are inflicting more damage on ukraine. yesterday's attacks targeted

critical energy infrastructure and apartment buildings in kyiv, dnipro and odessa. four people were killed and more than a dozen others were injured. meanwhile, the u.n. secretary general announced the extension of a deal to ensure the safe export of grain and fertilizers from ukraine through the black sea. the agreement was set to expire tomorrow. joining us now, senior correspondent for yahoo news, michael weiss. he's out with an exclusive report that's entitled "ex-russian spy flees to the nato country that captured him delivering another embarrassing below to moscow." we're going to get to that in just a moment. but first, michael, your assessment of this moment in the war in ukraine? >> i think we're sort of reaching an inflection point, mika. you know, the russian government realizes that it has failed quite badly on the battlefield in conventional military terms,

and what it has been doing for the past several weeks is essentially a terroristic campaign of bombarding civilian sites and critical infrastructure, power grids, gas supply and so on, with really a goal to freeze and blacken, blackout, i should say, the entire country through the coming winter. in his infinite wisdom, vladimir putin has miscalculated. you talk to reporters on the ground, one of my fellow writers said there's absolute resiliency and resolve by the ukrainian people to suffer it out. they don't feel that this tactic of essentially, you know, forcing them into submission and to some negotiation that they choose not to have is going to be successful. the real thing that ukraine needs most of all are sophisticated air defense systems, and they're beginning to get them. the germans have kicked in. the irish tea which is very

powerful that the norwegians are now on the ground. if she can shoot down iranian drones and incoming russian cruise missiles and keep the power on long enough, they'll be okay. that's the general sentiment. >> i want to get to your incredible piece, but, david, just to follow up on something michael said, the russians realized they have failed, and that's why they're behaving this way, sort of doubling down, and going outside whatever boundaries you could imagine, so how, then, is the challenge to get them not to realize that they failed but to realize this needs to stop and what is that? >> so the ukrainians continue to put pressure on the russians on the forced to retreat in kherson. their response is so cynical and brutal. basically to make people so cold in this winter to take out power plants, the heating

infrastructure. it's just a vicious anti-personal campaign. as michael weiss said, there's ever sign it will fail. trying to break the will of a population, londoners in the blitz or people in any of thee wars, people get angry. they dig in their feet. that's what i saw in kyiv. i saw people all the more angry. the more they were attacked, bombed, the families were terrible -- onlien creased their resolve to fight on. it's a population that's even more determined to recover it land. >> launched from? >> from ships in the black sea. launched some from belarus to the north, from the territories that russia controls in the

east. there's no question that the biggest priority for us, united states and the allies, to get better air defense systems to ukraine. israel has iron dome. ukraine will need a dome. >> some version of that. >> it is too vulnerable. >> michael, to the exclusive piece about this ex-russian spy fleeing to the nato country that he was spying on and embarrassing moscow, tell us about this? who is this spy? >> it is an extraordinary story. it's unprecedented in history on both the cold war and post-cold war. he was recruited in 2009, i believe. the family had ties to estonia as annexed.

they knew he used to go there and they knew he was a budding entrepreneur and tasked him and then asked him to surveil critical infrastructure, including a nato air base and spying on estonia for several years. captured in 2017. the first they caught. imprisoned for a year and traded back to moscow in a spy swap and then recently, i'm guessing it was in the summer, he defects to estonia. he goes to the officer who arrested him and begs him for assistance to get asylum in the nato country that caught him. i interviewed him last month in the headquarters of the

estonia's fbi. he told me i did this because of the war in ukraine. he is completely repulsed by putin's invasion. he has family in ukraine fighting on the government side and said that in 2018 the country was transformed. he deskroibed the regime and the society. he actually ended up attending with his family demonstrations in favor of navalny. so this is an incredible embarrassment for the russians. until the story broke they didn't know that the agent defected and the head of counter intelligence said you can be the one to tell kremlin a spy is on nato soil under our protection. >> incredible story. begs the question and wonder if you got a sense from him is he an outlier?

>> from him i didn't get much of a sense of that. he was a college student, a kid. not an intelligence officer. he was a recruited agent but from the head of counterintelligence in estonia, i would say they're probably the most capable at catching russian spies. he is a very reserved guy. i have never seen him so giddy and did tease and hint to me that this is by no means the only breach in putin's security services. >> michael weiss, thank you for your reporting. fascinating. we appreciate it. >> david and jonathan, thank you both for being on. happy friday. see you again soon and coming up, samuel adams is a household name for many in the northeast who enjoy the boston lagger but

the next guest is reminding americans that he was a revolutionary patriot and perhaps the most crucial before he was a beer. that story is straight ahead on "morning joe." ♪♪ subway's drafting 12 new subs for the all-new subway series menu the new monster has juicy steak and crispy bacon. but what about the new boss? it looks so good it makes me hangry! settle down there, big guy the new subway series. what's your pick?

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♪♪ sam adams is rooted beers in the heart of boston since 1984. who better to try the jack-o pumpkin boston ale than real bostonians? >> i love sam oktoberfest but this might be better. >> let's try this for real. i don't like that. this is the kind of beer

somebody brings to a party at your house and then sits in the fridge for like eight months and then one day your buddy comes over and says you have a beer? >> you should sell this year around. >> sorry. just grabbing one more. oh! launcher. my bad. >> sam adams, real bostonians agree. >> it is sweet and [ bleep ] but there's nothing else to drink. >> pretty funny. that's "snl" spoof of a sam adams commercial. the founding father was an american patriot and a revolutionary. a new biography of the often overlooked figure is met with critical acclaim. called wildly entertaining by "the new yorker" and rev la tori and frequently riveting by "publishers weekly" and made

oprah's best of the fall list! joining us now historian and author of the book, "the revolutionary samuel adams" stacy schiff. thank you for joining us and jonathan capehart joining the table and yak i can from "the washington post." we appreciate you all being with us. we can start with this concept and then we'll also talk politics. but first, stacy, tell us what motivated this book and what do you think will surprise the reader the most? >> it was 2016 and i was thinking as i think we all were about the origins of america and american democracy and a moment that resonated with the moment we were living and each founder says clearly a driving force in the cause that predates the revolution and that's samuel adams. the most persevering man of the

revolution and gone missing. who was this individual whom history has forgotten and contemporaries call the founder of the cause, changes the hearts and minds of americans before a shot is fired. >> i'll open up the table to questions, but first, what parallels did you find between adams' day and the political moment right now? >> it is a tumultuous time and felt consonant in that respect. the media is exploding and ideas are exploding alongside the media. one of his greatest country bugss is really to figure out how to use the media and propaganda and put ideas on the page, how to pull ideas out of the air. it is a moment of a feeling that government is unresponsive, people are feeling that government is not representing them, doesn't hear the needs,

deaf to them. income equality plays a role so that you have an almost a feeling that there's a class conflict in some way. parliament is not responding to people and an elite is ruling the country. >> gene? >> first of all, why has samuel adams been sort of forgotten? i guess he is a cousin of john adams? is that right? i also wonder how the two got along since neither seem to get along with anybody. >> john doesn't. second cousins. samuel is 13 years older and recruits john as many people to the cause. another contribution is running a recruiting office for the revolution. samuel is the one who actually pulls john in from the earliest days they works hand in glove

and agree that the crown officials in boston is -- how he gets written out is his own fault. doesn't leave papers. john who believes that everyone should write about himself tells samuel to do so and ignores the advice. john says it would explain the revolution and a modest man. he is -- this is the no fingerprints school of revolution. the responsibility should be diffuse. names disguised. there's a tremendous scene in the writings in which he talks about samuel adams feeding the papers to the fire so the confederates are not compromised. >> trump used to eat the paper. jonathan capehart? >> it is great to see you.

i'm glad you talked about samuel adams not keeping the papers because it ties in directly to the question i was going to ask you. read "cleopatra" because what made that book brilliant is using like the one known phrase or sentence tied to her and turned it into a huge book, biography of this mysterious and spectacular woman and so i was going to ask you, which was easier to write, cleopatra given a phrase or sentence attributed to her but constructed her life or samuel adams? he had no papers, nothing. how did you go about writing this book? >> fortunately that was one fire that we know of. a great deal still survives. it is an interesting parallel because you write from the

enemies in large part. we know from roman men writing about a greek women and we have a huge amount on samuel adams from the crown officers, the customs officials, the governor and lieutenant governor in boston trying to rein in the individual running circles around them. the chief insindiary. seems to be two steps ahead of them and beautifully preserved in the british archives and the correspondence saved from the fires. >> pulitzer prize winning author stacy schiff. thank you. we appreciate you being on. >> thank you. top news stories of the day. chris matthews, the news about

nancy pelosi stepping down and staying in congress. it was a big moment. an end of an era really. also she was groundbreaking in her leadership role being the first woman speaker of the house. second in line to the presidency and delivered to an audience with some republicans in it but not clapping. some didn't show up. you know? democrats of course supporting her. she made a pretty beautiful speech. there are some achievements in her life she will put at the top of the list. health care. she was pivotal. it wouldn't be there. it wouldn't have passed without her. so if you could talk a bit about the legacy and also this moment of gracelessness. >> yeah. working for tip o'neill for six

years and i remember the last night he was speaker the secretary put together a get together in the back room and nobody else knew about this. bob dole and bob michael. the democratic leaders. sitting around like shiva ending a career and drinking coffee. dole couldn't use both hands and helped him and it was a very personal thing and bipartisan. that wonderful line when she talked about and through the night the flag was still there. >> yes. >> what a poetic line. >> yes. >> from the "star-spangled banner." the few guys in the corner stood up and applauded. that is really bad because why can't you salute someone who served for eight years as leader and leader of the democrats for

20. that is your life. >> why. >> she is leading your life and can't celebrate that? >> you can't find something? that's the part that hurts. >> something sick about politics and has to do with money. >> in today's politics. >> give money to a politician and want them to be your friend. don't want to see them with the other side. how can she be friends with them if i give her money and she is my friend? it is about money. stop thinking you buy friendship giving somebody some money. >> back in 2019 i worked on a msnbc documentary about house speaker nancy pelosi tracing the rise in politics to the legislative battles on capitol hill and a moment to highlight how she ran circles around then president trump here she is talking about that. >> the second speakership for pelosi is truly important one.

it is pitted her against president trump as the leader of the democratic party. >> the fight started the month before she was swourn in when she and chuck schumer met with president trump about a deal that would include building the wall he proposed on the mexican border. >> the president so often makes stuff up. numbers, facts. we'll confront. >> if i needed the votes i would have them in one session. it would be dub. >> then do it. >> to those that questioned the ability to duel with president trump the way she conducted herself was a turning point. >> there are no votes in the house for a wall. no matter where you started. >> we planned to one-two punch but it worked beyond the wildest expectations. >> most unfortunate thing. we came in good faith and

entering into this discussion in the public view. >> it's called transparency. >> i wanted to say why do we have to do this in public because we have to contradict you? it was his insistence that the press stay there. >> wow. >> i think that he thought he could just get away with saying whatever he wanted to say without any challenge. >> yeah. did it strike you at that moment maybe he is not very smart? >> no. i'm never surprised. this looks like a person used to getting his own way. >> i am proud to shut down the government for border security because the people don't want criminals and people with problems and drugs pouring into the country so i will take the mantle. i will be the one to shut it down. >> the person shuts the government down almost always loses. >> just that he did. and he did.

and he did. and he did. that just brought me back and i'm a little triggered. but nancy pelosi -- she never gets triggered. keeps the grace even in that moment. you could see the parallel. sorry. between grace and gracelessness she is graceful. trump was graceless. difficult. mean. racist. sexist. cruel. mean. undermining. unemphathetic president. >> this woman is so far ahead. you write about this. know your value. she had her own schedule. she was going to run before steny hoyer. running for speaker in 2001. had it all planned and a schedule and kept to it. she won every one of the races. >> the great thing about seeing

what we saw is it shows just how prepared speaker pelosi is going into a meeting like this and saw her core strength. she is -- her faith in to the constitution and her reverence for the constitution and the presidency she didn't want to have that conversation in public forcing them to contradict the president. she respected the presidency. when you are looking at nancy pelosi you have to understand her reverence and faith in the constitution is second only to her catholic faith. she reveres both and both ground her and the leadership. >> what i saw from studying her in that moment instead of playing for the cameras she stuck to the core values and spoke to the moment. >> yeah. i have to say our colleague paul kane had a 65-minute interview

with her after the speech and he said that she was still pretty steely behind closed doors. she wasn't weep pi or emotional about the moment which i think any person man or woman would be really caught up in the emotion of it. >> yeah. >> but was very matter of fact. she spoke about having survivor's guilt about her husband and that to me is sort of one of the more shocking things that republicans -- house future potentially house speaker kevin mccarthy did not attend the meeting. steven miller jetted into the office an hour before and mccarthy never emerged. >> miller is the adviser now? >> still a question. >> what is going on? >> apparently they're friends. just having a conversation. but there's a little bit more

reporting to be done there and pelosi told paul kane that's what hurt her most. republicans applauded this person who attacked her husband, who is struggling. can only interact with people for limited moments. has to sit in dim rooms. recovering from a severe head and brain injury and there is no empathy or sympathy expressed by republicans for what they have gone through and her grandchildren and talked about how she is still living in the house where he was attacked and so it's sort of this constant trauma and that she -- survivor's giltd for her not being there. not of -- the one this person looking to attack and couldn't find her and that that has been extremely challenging for her. even in the context of that, that republicans couldn't just

put the fight down for an hour -- >> no. >> so different from the way she and democrats responded when scalise was shot and almost killed. she i think what she said she was of course outraged and said we are all one family. >> right. >> not republicans and democrats on this. we are all one family. she did everything. scalise at least did attend -- >> half of it. >> part of it. >> come on. i ask again and again who raised -- who raised you? men and women in the house and the far right. would your mothers like the behavior today? this party coming to policy. i have talked about this before. it is not examine rating calling it the party of inhumanity. so sense of empathy or humanity coming to policy or behavior. this is a party -- i'm talking

about republicans in the house. not some members of the senate who take a different route like mitch mcconnell, put out a generous and appropriate and graceful statement. that's how it works, guys in the house. you tend to stay in the cruel corner to carry out policies on abortion, wanting a 13-year-old girl forced to have a baby of a rapist or guns but you stay there in the corner of cruelty. your behavior -- i hate to sound like mommy here or something but their behavior is abhorrent and their behavior after paul pelosi was attacked? mocking. silent. >> women play this role historically with male

politicians. paul pelosi is amazing. going to funeral with nancy pelosi he is there and coming along as a supportive spouse. he is a really good guy. >> you don't have to like him to be graceful and need to behave yourself and ask like a human being. >> while attacked in part because of year's worth of unfettered attacks to nancy pelosi and the supporters looking to kill her. >> the same house republicans who clearly don't have a polite bone in their body, a graceful bone and seem to capitalize on cruelty for the success "the new york times" offers this analysis for how the republicans will govern with the new razor-thin house majority.

why? because they lost in a historically epic midterm result that shows their behavior turned off voters. the only results are those that inflict pain on mr. biden and congressional democrats. and the closed door meeting of republicans on monday right wing lawmakers including representative marjorie taylor greene extracted a promise that their leaders would investigate speaker nancy pelosi and the justice department for the treatment of defendants jailed in connection with the january 6 attack on the capitol. so they want to defend the criminals who attacked the capitol on january 6. here's the georgia republican yesterday speaking out about her demand. >> i'd ask that steve scalise and if he would support

investigations into nancy pelosi's handling of security at the capitol on january 6. i believe that one's really important. i also in that question i asked him about if we can -- if he would support investigations into the treatment of pretrial january 6 defendants. that's something that's very important. and he said that he would support it through the committees so that each committees assigned would be handling it. i look forward to talking with jamie comer. >> i think he only wants to talk about hunter is what he said. this is your beat. what do you make of that? >> i ask comber and jim jordan yesterday and he -- they initially dodged the question and jim jordan addressing it saying we want to investigate

the doj generally speaking and tried to drill down on pelosi and the january 6 insurrectionists and pivoted to hunter biden. they have not talked to the chairman about this investigation. >> jonathan capehart, the capitol attackers are going through the judicial process. >> right. >> is this possible? >> look. what we are witnessing here in that marjorie taylor greene clip is everything kevin mccarthy is doing to get the gavel. negotiating to get 218 votes making that official vote in january. what we are seeing is the exact opposite of nancy pelosi. nancy pelosi had a core, a moral core. there are things she believes in and wants to -- legislatively wants to do. what we are seeing with kevin

mccarthy, minority leader, for the moment is someone who is just about the power, getting that speaker's gavel and will trade away pretty much anything to get that gavel. the american people, i'm old enough to remember republicans running on crime, inflation, the economy is falling to pieces and instead we got that. >> what i'm confused about is i thought the midterms taught the republicans that -- i'll say it slowly for you in the house. speak really slowly. make sure that you understand completely what is being said here. it appears the american people don't like insurrections. what's an insurrections? what happened at the capitol on january 6th. when the people were listening to president trump who told them to rush the capitol, to go get

'em, bring that noose and everything else they brought. the zip ties. remember the zip ties? remember the pooh pooh or whatever it is they did all over the capitol? breaking the windows? that was bad. that was not good. republicans in the house who seem to have a problem with the truth, with right and wrong, with what grace looks like and what our constitution stands for. and what your job is. okay? so i'm speaking slowly here so you understand. people like marjorie taylor greene don't seem to understand exactly what's happening in places like ukraine. would you like me to get you a map? would you like me to explain nato to you? do you need some help? he can help you out here. my bigger point is, chris

matthews, i speak slowly because some of them seem fairly ignorant as to what the midterms told republicans about what americans cared about. and what their job is. what did we learn? >> big picture is that americans don't like the democracy being mocked. the greatest thing we have is electoral power and the freedom to exercise those votes and what we get from the votes. the ability to control politicians, to rule the country. on election day that's one day the voters rule. they can give it back to whoever they want to. they didn't respect the power. in a physical sense if you're a capitol person, a congressmen or a staffer, you know the police defended your life and mike pence's life. life. against his president. those guys come and break the door may have looked like people

that the cops knew or voted like the way the cops did, some of them. they were there to break the law and hurt the country and gave their lives. how you cannot root for every cop and learn the names and say hello to them in the morning and thank them i don't understand that. that is really human. beyond politics. it is unbelieverible to root for the mob. >> is this lost on you what is happening here or a strategy that you -- from the years of covering politics can identify? >> i don't understand it. because i have always understood policy like jonathan went through the rendition of what a republican thinks like. they don't like big deficits. they -- long before trump and possibly after trump but right now cultists. they are like some of a strange religion they believe in one

person telling them that the election is crooked and as long as he says that they will echo that. they will ditto that. like in rush limbaugh days. because of a strange chemical power he has over them. it is frightening. >> thank you for being on. we'll watch the sunday show on msnbc. we are so proud of you. we love the show. >> thank you. still ahead on "morning joe," the comments from greene comparing migrants coming to the united states at the southern border to russians brutally invading ukraine. it's incredible. you are watching "morning joe."

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house republicans are promising tougher scrutiny of financial aid to ukraine when the new term begins next year. congresswoman archery taylor greene announced a resolution to audit funds to the country and yesterday made this comparison. >> we had 5 million people cross our border illegally since joe biden took office. and let's compare that to how many russians invaded ukraine. 82,000 russians invaded ukraine. i think the american people and the taxpayers of this country deserve to know why the biden administration and this congress is so interested in funding the protection of ukraine's border and not the protection of our border. that is a very good question. >> i don't know where to begin. is she willingly inspector

general -- inspector general rant? >> anyone who has seen the photographs of bucha and the corpses on the ground, the ruins of mariupol, a beautiful city in southern ukraine, this is a brutal investigation of russia and to compare it to america's border problems which are serious, but to compare it to a savage war makes me wonder what planet she is on. >> what planet is she? >> this is critical of ukrainian soldiers brought up to the hill yesterday. and she was essentially saying, if you don't want to see the wounded ukrainian soldiers we have to audit and see what the funds are going to. cut it off. >> i have a question for susan who knows nancy pelosi better

than anybody. this was a crazy, ignorant, crazy statement that this woman made. ignorant as it gets. if someone in democratic caucus of speaker pelosi said something about the same ilk and level of ignorance and also cruelty given the fact the ukraines are working and killing themselves and dying for the safety of the world, if someone did that what would she do? >> there have been occasions where nancy pelosi disciplined of her own caucus. sometimes behind the scenes when she felt a member were saying things unwise or untrue. i can't remember an example of her facing a member of her party

who said something like this. >> right. >> she did make -- you called it dangerous. she made the point yesterday about how dangerous the politics continue to be at this moment as we saw on january 6 and saw in her own household when her husband has been attacked. >> been through hell over the past few weeks and knows how dangerous the politics have become. sam stein, you have been following a lot of polls in terms of how the republican extremism is playing in this country. we have seen the results in the midterms and yet they double down. >> yeah. let me say one thing about the comparison between the southern border and the war in ukraine. reflects a thinking in the republican party that this war, stop the funding for it, it is not insensitive just to

ukrainians but to the people crossing the border. comparing them to an invading army and a rhetoric with really resonated in bad ways online. so i wanted to make that point but i think and this gets to what you were hinting at. marjorie taylor greene has been a sort of house fly in the house minority who you could more or less ignore and said deliberately outrageous things with no power and the issue now is not only in the majority but because of the slimness she has a tremendous amount of power. she can extract concessions from mccarthy and others to pursue her agenda which is objectively quite out there. the report that i was shocked by

is that she wants house republicans to investigate the trials and jailing of january 6 riot attend des and seems peculiar but if that's where they're going that's where they're going. i think it's valid at this point to actually cover her because the power she accrued through the election process is enormous relative to her position. >> is this the future? will aid to ukraine be debated? will we be looking at possibly people who committed crimes against our democracy who went into the capitol and broke windows, hurt people, defecated in the hallways, tried to kill nancy pelosi and mike pence getting a -- i don't know -- new day in court? >> look. there's going to be this crazy circus happening in the house.

because of the new republican majority and as was said the influence that the likes of marjorie taylor greene will have over it. is that going to materially affect the way the trials of those who invaded the capitol are proceeding or the jail time they're getting? i doubt it. but people will be hauled up to the hill to testify i guess. maybe attorney general. who knows? the big question i think is will the house be able to do its duty? what will it be able to do in terms of passing needed appropriations? keeping the government running. just the basic stuff. i don't think we can expect much more than that from the house for the next couple of years but the question is will we get even that? coming up, a look at other

stories including another dramatic move by elon musk to shake up the company he bought. the latest on saga on and at twitter. next on "morning joe." (vo) after fifteen years of the share the love event, subaru and our retailers have donated over two hundred and fifty million dollars to charity. in fact, subaru is the largest corporate donor to the aspca... ...and the national park foundation.

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some of the other stories we're following this morning, nk fired an intercontinental ballistic missile that landed near japanese waters. the test showed the ability to strike nuclear strikes that could reach the entirety of the u.s. mainland. is this something we should be concerned about? >> yes. north korea is very specific in saying that it no longer seeks dialogue with the united states as a counter weight to russia and china the days when the nuclear program would be a bargaining chip is finished.

kim jong-un was very specific in september in saying that. these tests followed. i think many people are afraid what comes next is another nuclear test. >> the u.s. quickly condemned the launch and vowed to take all necessary measures to guarantee the safety of the territory and allies after a smaller missile launched by the north and the warping of fiercer military responses to the u.s. boosting the regional security presence. we will be watching that story. workers at more than 100 u.s. starbucks locations have gone on strike. largest labor action since a push last year to unionize the stores. workers chose a busiest day red cup day with free reusable cups to customers that order a holiday drink and seeking consistent schedules and higher

staffing levels. we'll be following that. hundreds of twitter employees appear to call musk's ultimatum. musk gave employees until 5:00 p.m. yesterday to stay and follow his vision or leave with three month's severance. they were left scrambling when hundreds opted to leave forcing the company to try to persuade many to leave. when we are in this labor environment, gene robinson, overall there are articles out there and anecdotal evidence that people are pulling back from jobs they don't like. right? >> that's what they are doing. >> seems like a dumb thing to offer to people if you don't want them to leave. >> you know, despite the silicon valley. it is easy to find a job these days still.

and so, you know, i don't -- elon musk -- >> really showing -- >> $44 billion and seems to take every week $10 billion and set it on fire. >> musk appeared to soften the stance on remote work with deactivating employees' badge access at the office until monday. twitter laid off half of the 7,500-person staff. causing many people to question the future of the social media site. i think twitter is in question. >> i'll say. musk's tweets painful to read but had one yesterday that was pretty funny saying how do you make a large fortune in social media? or so -- i got it backwards. how do you make a small fortune

in social media. start with a large one. that's what he did. started with an enormous stack of capital. coming up, playing more of what the outgoing speaker had to say and a lesson on power for house republicans. if your moderate to severe crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms

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"wall street journal" editorial board has a new piece entitled nancy pelosi's lesson in power for house republicans and it reads lesson in power for house republicans." it reads, "republican who is disagree with ms. pelosi on practically everything can still learn from her, how to effectively wield power. there's no denying that ms. pelosi has been the most powerful speaker in decades.

were republicans paying attention? in last week's elections, the gop regained the house but its new majority will be as small as mrs. pelosi's current one. the narrow margin next year calls far strong speaker and republican unity. if the gop wants to convince the electorate a new mandate in 2024, it needs to show it can govern. instead, the old circling firing squad may be forming, mr. mccarthy's majority will be 222 at most. that number was enough for mrs. pelosi to avoid pointless brinks brinksmanship in the past two years and pass an ambitious agenda for mr. biden. mr. mccarthy and republicans could learn from the example." sam stein, that's a really good point. whoever leads the house republicans is going to have to make it work with a lot of different factions and in the

next two years, they're going to want to have shown they have done something to improve the lives of the american people. aren't they? >> maybe not, honestly. >> oh. >> they may be just as transparent about it as possible, knowing that can't get legislation through a democratic senate, they may just stick to investigations and call it a day. yeah, they could probably learn a lesson from nancy pelosi in terms of how to organize and pass legislation. the touch stone for me, the biggest encapsulation of her abilities was of course with obamacare when it looked like it was going to blow up. democrats were eager to scale it back and do a piecemeal approach. she's like if you're encountering a fence, you beat down a fence, if it's a wall, you catapult, if it's too high, you chute and that will get it done.

that was grit and determination but also savvy vote counting. she never brought legislation to the floor unless she had votes. she loved to win but also did the hard work. i have a question for susan, who is the best chronicler of pelosi, which is what was it that was her secret sauce? fear? empathy? she knew everyone's names and families and birthdays, and things like that. but what was that personal touch? was it indefinable how she could rarely miss a vote or get the votes? >> all of the above. she understand every member in her caucus. she understood their district and the history of their districts. she understood what would be a big favor for them. she raised a ton of dough, $1.3 billion since she went to the leadership. that is a jaw-dropping amount of money. she also sometimes ruled by fear.

you know, members of congress respect and adored her, but a lot of them were kind of afraid of her. one told me when she was pushing for passage of the affordable care act and he said if i vote for this, it will cost me my seat, and she said, yes, it might do that, but you came here to do a job, not have a job. he voted for it and lost his seat. there were things she thought were worth losing a seat over and the affordable care act was one of those. >> david. >> i'm struck by what a tough leader pelosi was. i think "the journal" captured it. the democratic caucus is fractious, not as much as the republican caucus, but she had a lot of issues to deal with. she had a progressive wing of her caucus. she had the discipline, had to send them the message. and kevin mccarthy, if he's going to be an effective speaker, is going to have to take a caucus that's notoriously out of control and turn it into

something else. i think pelosi, the footage we were all able to see of her behavior of january 6th, when they're in that undisclosed room and, you know, who knows what's happening? their lives are threatened. and she's cool as a cucumber. >> sure was. >> incredible. >> she's saying to people, you do this, and we need to have this doenl. she's not frightened. she's not agitated. she is the essence of a leader. and that's the person who over all these years ran this caucus. should be afraid of her. she was tough, tough, tough. >> the first impeachment when she called the vote for impeaching donald trump the first time and had the gavel and people started to cheer and she made that zip across her lips. >> zip it. >> a hard worker too. >> yes. >> i mean, she -- the way she

knew -- >> 24/7. >> -- what every member needed and what every caucus needed, she met with them constantly, took their temperature. very organized, had her deputies out there feeling and telling -- she could count. she could really count. >> turn out the count. coming up, as we mentioned, speaker pelosi isn't the only democrat stepping back from a top position on capitol hill. majority leader steny hoyer is also turning things over to a new generation of leaders. i'd like to thank our sponsor liberty mutual. they customize your car insurance,

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an