♪ call one eight hundred, eight million ♪ so let's get to that breaking news as we come on the air from here in washington. the attorney general, naming a special counsel to handle the multiple investigations into former president donald trump. the mar-a-lago case, on the handling of classified documents

and key aspects of the investigation into the january 6th insurrection. we are getting now our first reaction from the former president's campaign team calling this move by the d.o.j. a totally expected political stunt, and what some may see as an unsurprising statement from the former president who has long felt aggrieved by the d.o.j. we have a team of correspondents and legal experts standing by as we wait in just about 30 minutes from now for the white house briefing to begin, at the lectern you see there, the first potential on camera statement we'll get from a member of the administration other than merrick garland of course since that announcement was made, correspondents in the room. we will bring it to you live. halle jackson in washington. we will bring in ken dilanian, vaughn hillyard, chief white house correspondent kristen welker is joining us as well as former federal prosecutor and msnbc legal analyst paul butler. and i will start with you. because you are just hearing now, vaughn, from a spokesperson for the former president. walk us through it. >> right, i just got it, it is a

brief statement, and one that i will read. this is a totally expected political stunt by a feckless politicized weaponized biden department of justice. this is a type of statement that we have become accustomed to over the last six years. this is the latest in which you are now looking at a special counsel who is coming in from the outside, and essentially the keys being handed over, from attorney general merrick garland, to the special counsel, to make at least a recommendation on the prosecuting front of not only the issues around january 6th and the peaceful transfer of power, but also the investigation into the movement, the transfer of classified and national defense material to mar-a-lago there, following his exit from the white house. when we're talking about this, and it's important to note the way in which the republican party is has largely defended donald trump in the last two years since his exit from office. this is a moment, where it was back in august, you will recall the likes of senator marco rubio, rick scott, ted cruz, numerous house members were essentially calling there a

political witch hunt. it is suggesting that each when the republicans were to take the house of representatives, next year, if they were to win back the house like they have, that they should cut off the appropriations committee, should cut off funding to the fbi, the department of justice should be broken up, and this is a republican party that is largely defended the former president. steve bannon going on the air waves and calling it efforts bit gestapo. so what merrick garland is doing is essentially allowing an outside individual to come in and not allowing himself to be a target hire as part of this investigation. >> >> ken dilanian, let me go to you standing outside the department of justice, this is not an unexpected reaction from trump world, you could see this coming a mile away, and donald trump and his team believe that the d.o.j. at least publicly has been weaponized, has been politicized, this move by the attorney general is meant explicitly to put some distance between the administration and these two investigations, at a time when donald trump is just days off announcing a third run at the white house.

talk about jack smith, his biography, what we know about him, and how much his sort of professional expertise and resume may help insulate him at least somewhat from some of these attacks, if at all. >> i don't know if it will or not, hallie. jack smith, formally head of the sbbl integrity section of the department, investigating political corruption around the country. most recently he was investigating war crimes in the kosovo conflict in the hague, and he incidentally wasn't here today, we were told he hurt his knee in a biking accident and had to have surgery so he is still in the hague. he is not a household name, obviously. not a robert mueller-like figure. and you're absolutely right. merrick garland made clear that he did this because he felt like it was the right decision, in least the fact that donald trump is running for president, and he did it despite a lot of legal experts saying it doesn't really get him all that much, because at the end of the day, let's

understand what this is. a special counsel is not a special prosecutor from the old days where a law allowed, and prosecutors to become completely independent of the justice department. a special prosecutor operates under the auspices of justice department. >> that's right. >> this person will have charging authority. this person will be able to file charges as robert mueller did, independent of any decision that merrick garland makes but if merrick garland decided he doesn't want to approve certain charges, he can block. that he has ultimate authority. and at the end of the process, the regulations require that the special counsel file a confidential report, with the attorney general, explaining his prosecution decision, and the decision not to prosecute. that was essentially the mueller report. i want to ask merrick garland today that we pledge to release to the extent key any kind of written report from the special counsel, merrick garland did not take questions. one thing that this does do, in the unlikely event that this investigation lasts two years, and there's a new republican president, this makes it harder

to fire the special counsel, it makes it harder, it makes this investigation more insulated from a republican president and a republican attorney general. of course, if that president is donald trump, i don't think anyone doubts that we have no problem firing the special counsel. >> i was going to say, you know, the question mark on that. and also, you know, paul, go to you for some analysis but ken you say the unlikely event that this could last two years, didn't the robert mueller investigation last nearly two years and the john durham investigation was a multi-year investigation, two other special counsels appointed regarding actions that donald trump had taken after he took office in 2017, what would a time line be for something like that? do we even know? >> it is a great point you're making and there are some participants of this we know and some parts of this we don't know. from the evidence on the public record, in particular the mar-a-lago investigation is much further along the tracks than the investigation, than the nascent trump russia investigation that robert mueller inherited when he was

appointed. the january 6th investigation is further along but that one is kind of a wildcard and that one could in theory take two more years because it is an investigating an effort to overthrow, allegedly overthrow the 2020 election and manipulate electoral vote counts and it is very complicated. the mar-a-lago case is a lot simpler. they've already got the documents. there are many legal experts who have said that if donald trump was anybody else, he already would have been charged. and so today, merrick garland pledged that this special counsel will have all of the resources he needs to complete his investigations, and you can interpret that as there are a lot of fbi agents already working on these cases, presumably they will now go to work for the special counsel and it may that this person has mainly charging decisions, to make rather than what we're seeing in the investigations, but you know, we'll have to see. >> ken dilanian. thank you. i will let you get back to other reporting. paul, let me bring you in for a moment for other analysis separate from the reporting that others have done and i understand you have crossed paths with mr. smith during your

time as a trial attorney. what is his reputation at the d.o.j.? what should we know about him? >> he was the chief of the public integrity section where i worked as a trial attorney. we didn't overlap. i met him many times. people who work in that section are stead fastly apolitical. but there's also a reason that we wanted to be public corruption prosecutors. those prosecutors have a bad attitude of government officials who don't follow the rules. and yak is a prosecutor's prosecutor. has been trying criminal cases for 0 years. he won two big public corruption cases. one against the former governor of virginia, who by the way was a democrat. and another case against a republican congressman from arizona. i will say that public integrity prosecutors decline more cases than they bring. the justice department standard is you don't prosecute unless you think you can get 12 jurors

to find beyond a reasonable doubt that the zest is guilty. >> kristen, let me turn to you here, because in just about 22 minutes, if it is on time, we expect to hear from the white house press secretary in the briefing room down the driveway from where you are standing, president biden has been consistent when asked about issues relating to former president trump, that he is going to allow the department of justice to do their work independently. that's what this special counsel designation seems to be about on the part of merrick garland was to put some space between merrick garland and these investigations, despite the fact that as ken points out merrick garland is still in charge. talk me through your expectation here. i understand there is no response yet from the white house but having covered them many times and former president trump of course, your expectation here. >> i don't think we will hear a whole lot. and let me walk you through the day so far, kristen. >> it's fair -- >> they can't, and this is part

of what president biden campaigns on, when he was a candidate, the promise to have this, to allow the justice department to be independent. i happened to be at an event with president biden about the economy, when the news broke, and once we were ushered out of the room, i was among the reporters who shouted at the president, tried to get him to respond to this breaking news, he declined to comment. i can tell you a white house official said to me, d.o.j. makes decisions about its criminal investigations independently and we are not involved. so i would refer you to d.o.j. i expect that is about what we are going to hear from white house press secretary krinne jean-pierre when she takes the bold yum a few moments from now, and we certainly are going to ask her a range of questions around this, hallie, as you know i've got my list ready to go. we will try to get some information from her, as to when the president found out, what the reaction is here, but again, this president has been very insistent that this is important for him to maintain separation from the justice department.

he does that by the way with hunter biden who is also under investigation for various tax-related issues. and he has not commented on that. traditionally speaking, if you talk to legal experts, that is what you would expect from a sitting president. that is the appropriate way to approach this sort of thing. of course, there is a major political backdrop to all of this. merrick garland said that is part of the reason he was taking extraordinary action, because of course, as you just noted, former president trump just announced his candidacy a few days ago. and president biden insists he intends to run for office. he hasn't made the final decision. he will huddle with family members over the holidays and make a final decision in the new year. and of course all of that kicks off this weekend, his granddaughter, naomi biden is getting married, he turns 80 on sunday, and then he and his family go away for the thanksgiving holiday. and so those sorts of discussions, hallie, are really imminent, and i anticipate we're going to get that final answer soon, but the president has been very insistent on this point

that what happens with his predecessor will not impact his ultimate decision or the timing of his ultimate decision. having said all of that, they are watching this very closely, and they are clearly processing this as a part of the broader political landscape. i think it's worth noting, you were talking about this earlier, and vaughn knows all too well, former president trump, some of the allies, believe that he is emboldened by this sort of thing, that this allows him to galvanize support. and so that is yet another data point as president biden makes his final decision halle. >> to the point that you're making, there has been some speculation that perhaps he was announcing this presidential run so early in the calendar, right, just a week after the midterms, in part because he was hoping to shield himself from the investigations that he is under now by the department of justice and elsewhere on the state level. despite the fact that the attorney general has made very clear, including with our own lester holt, that he will continue to pursue these investigations as he said

without fear or favor. vaughn, there is a lot of attention put at a moment from that presidential announcement from mr. trump where he talked about being a victim. but i want to remind people the context that he said that in, and it was the very context of what we're talking about here, the department of justice and the fbi. let me play that for folks. >> the gravest threats to our civilization are not from abroad but from within. none is greater than the weaponization of the justice system, the fbi and the d.o.j. we must conduct a top to bottom overhaul to clean out the festering rot and corruption of washington, d.c. [ cheering ] [ chanting ].

>> thank you. thank you. and i'm a victim, i will tell you, i'm a victim. >> vaughn, it is a piece of what we heard from the former president before, and perhaps in his view, an incentive, right, to why he wants to regain the presidency. >> and let's be very clear here, it works, for a great part of the american electorate. especially the republican electorate. the one that will be deciding whether he will be the republican nominee for president in 2024. you and kristen have been around this country, and we have each had conversations with a mass number of folks who, when asked them about what issues are top of mine, it's from hunner biden, it is the issues that donald trump frequently talks about, the 2020 election, and each of these, we heard the statement earlier, him calling himself a victim, and it justifies his losses here, and whether it be

the impeachment proceedings, related to him holding up a military aid to ukraine in 2019, all that was a justification that the biden family was trying to hide the alleged, you know, connections between hunter biden and companies in which he was doing business with. it is all a part of his evidence to quote drain the swamp. you heard the folks there chanting. and among the republican electorate, it works, and it continues to work, and that is why when you heard him the other night essentially call himself the victim here, it allows part of the electorate to continue to live in an alternate reality, that these investigations into him are part of a governmental effort to undermine the republican movement, the america first so-called movement, that he has helped lead over the last six years. and that's why you saw the likes of mike pompeo, his former secretary of state, urging folks to look forward, and to not play moo victimhood, because that is

exactly what donald trump is trying to capitalize, and frankly, it's in large part all that he's really got left here, especially after a difficult midterms just one week ago. >> vaughn hillyard, thank you. appreciate it. >> paul, let me talk to you about the day to day. land does life look like for jack smith and what can we expect to see. the attorney general talked briefly about this, as part of the announcement, just within the last hour. here it is. >> although the special counsel will not be subject to the day to day supervision of any official of the department, he must comply with the regulations, procedures, and policies of the department. i will ensure that the special counsel receives the resources to conduct this work quickly and completely. >> so what does that work look like, paul? and how should we be thinking about these investigations, right? because i think a lot of us have been visualizing this as two separate but parallel tracks, the classified material found at

mar-a-lago and sort of separately the actions surrounding january 6th and the insurrection at the capitol. >> yes, so halle, the law says that the special counsel has to be a lawyer with a reputation for integrity and impartial decision making. robert mueller was the last special counsel to investigate trump and some people thought he was too mild-mannered to stand up to donald trump, and to stand up to the former attorney general, bill barr. but the justice department now seems to be aggressively investigating trump, especially with regard to the national security case at mar-a-lago. and so jack smith, the newly-appointed special counsel, has a lot of catching up to do, he's not starting from scratch, he will work with the investigation by literally hundreds of fbi agents and prosecutors, and they've gone after 800 people already with connection to january 6th, but nobody at the top. but hallie, those prosecutors

have a bunch of cases. this prosecutor will be almost exclusively focused on donald trump and other people at the top echelon. and merrick garland seemed to focus, he emphasized the fact that this isn't going to delay things significantly. we'll see whether that's true, but it's hard to think that somebody like jack smith would take this appointment if he were just going to decline the case. he doesn't know yet, he doesn't have all of the information in the investigation, but there's got to be something there for him to have accepted this assignment. >> can i ask you though, is this an assignment that you can reasonably turn down? yoong how the d.o.j. works but is this one of the things that you get asked, you're not really being asked, you're being told? >> this investigation is historic. so especially for someone who is interested in public corruption, and this special counsel ran the justice department's public

integrity section, it's hard to say no. i think mainly for patriotic reasons, if trump is prosecuted, this will be the first prosecution in american history of a former president, and so again, just being a prosecutor, being a lawyer, this is a case that i think a lot of people would want to try. >> paul butler, thank you so much for your analysis and your perspective here with us, on a very busy afternoon, i appreciate it. we're waiting for that briefing from the white house. set to start in just about 10 minutes of the we're also getting brand new reaction in from some republicans over on capitol hill, ryan nobles is getting in front of a camera. we'll tell you about it in just 60 seconds. stay with us. onds stay with us verizon small business days are back. and there's never been a better time to switch! get our best offers of the year on business internet. help your business stay ahead with the reliable connection your business deserves. book your appointment today. and switch to the network america relies on. verizon. did you know if you turn to cold with tide

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saying that this is trump derangement syndrome, at this time with a gun and a badge, and congressman marjorie taylor green tweeting out impeach merrick garland. that is not the first time by the way that she has made that suggestion. and all of this is happening as we are also hearing more about the types of investigations that a republican congress may pursue against president biden. trump allied member was house republican party. let me bring in now ryan nobles live for us on capitol hill. ryan, i think you're with us now. >> here i am. >> not surprising that former president trump's allies are backing him with this claim that the d.o.j., in their view has been weaponized against the former president. >> yes, and kind of interesting the theory, or the argument that they're using to claim this, hallie, because as your prior guests have shown, the purpose of the special counsel is to take the politics out of an investigation like this, and so folks like ted cruz and marge ry marjorie taylor green are not fans of merrick garland and they

think merrick garland is the one to prosecute this case if it were to get to that stage. it doesn't make that much sense. but ted cruise says joe biden has completely weaponized the department of justice to attack his political opponents. three days ago, trump announced and now a special counsel, questioning it. and this is the trump derangement syndrome this time with a gun and a badge. the other thing we should point out about cruz's statement is that merrick garland was pretty transparent about the fact that donald trump announcing his candidacy was part of the reason that they decided to appoint this special counsel, and try to take it out of the department of justice politically, so la is another part of it that we have to keep in mind. but again, halle, backing into your original question about what we're going to see on capitol hill here, republicans are going to try to do their own version of this, through their oversight responsibility in congress, and jim jordan, james co burn, who is going to be the head of the oversight committee, putting out a laundry list of different investigations that

they plan to do. the judiciary committee under jordan's watch, he's likely going to become the chairman. judiciary committee, putting out a long list of letters that they sent to members of the biden administration, and they're going to ask many of them to come before the committee, and answer questions, and among them, the chief of staff, ron klain, a number of cabinet sections, the secretary of the department of education, so this is what it is going to be like here on capitol hill in the coming months, once january gets under way, and the republicans have the majority, they have talked a lot about how what they have, even if it is only a one seat majority that gives them the subpoena power in these congressional committees and it gives them the chairmanships of these congressional committees, and they do under constitutional authority have the right to ask questions of the administration. sometimes that lapses when a party has power, the house, the senate, and the white house, republicans are looking to fill that void, the question of course, halle is whether or not they are going to actually find

any substantive evidence in that vein, or whether or not it will be all for political purposes two. different issues here. what is happening with the former president. and what could happen with the house republicans. but along that same line of investigations and how they relate to politics. >> but i do wonder if there is not a connective tissue there, ryan, with respect to the question of whether or not this announcement of the special counsel by merrick garland will turbocharge. so investigations, right? because we know that the house republicans, as you point out and have already said, they wanted to look into the fbi and the d.o.j., specifically after the search of mar-a-lago, where the classified documents are found. we already know that the specter of possibly impeaching merrick garland has come up from at least, you know, some in the republican conference here, i wonder how much this news is going to accelerate some of those movements once the new congress comes into session. >> yes, i think you've made a very important connection there, and it is kind of what ted cruz

is saying, when you read between the lines of the statement that he just put out on twitter, you know, republicans have been saying for sometime, based in the investigations, into donald trump, into the defendants, in the january 6th investigations, not just the political investigations into the january 6th investigations, but also the actual rioters that were here on january 6th, they aused the department of justice of being corrupt, again not with much evidence, but that has been kind of their talking point, alluded to that. so if they do see the department of justice getting even more aggressive with the former president donald trump, their response to it could certainly be to, as you aptly put it, turbocharge the investigatory power that they have. and your republicans have been warning democrats for some time, the way that they use the january 6th select committee to subpoena members of congress, to subpoena members of the administration, they've learned, democrats, that once they have

the power, that they're going to be able to use it for the same exact reasons. so this could be just a preview of what is to come here over the next couple of months. >> as you were speaking, we heard from former president trump directly, via an interview that he did with fox news digital team, basically, brook semen at fox news.com. i want to read you and i know you're finding out about this along with the rest of us, but the former president, not a surprising response from him, he has been going through this for six years, i'm not going to do through it anymore and i hope the republicans have the courage to fight this, and he then continued on to say that it is not acceptable and so unfair and political. and enhe says republicans he hopes would have the courage to fight this, congressional republicans couldn't do anything to stop the special counsel, right? i mean that's an executive branch function? >> no, they absolutely do not have the power to stop a special counsel investigation. what is put out by the

department of justice. you know, there could be some sort of, and hallie, we're trying to, you know, forecast this in a very hypothetical sense, but the only real effort that congress could have to stand in the way of the department of justice investigation would be, for instance, to defund it, you know, congress has the power of the purse. but that is not realistic in any way, shape, or form, given the makeup of congress and the new year, because democrats in the senate are never going to, you know, stand in the way of a congressional, or i should say a department of justice investigation by trying to cut off the purse strings. basically what donald trump is calling, particularly on his house republican allies, is the power of the bully pulpit. he just wants them to hold hearings, to hold press conferences, to be vocal on twitter, to complain about this, through their official offices, to try and distract from the actual work of the department of justice, and try and undermine it from a public relations perspective.

that's been the challenge for merrick garland and his investigation from the very beginning. it is why he was so methodical with this process from the very beginning. much to the consternation, i should point out, of the detractors of the former president donald trump, and of the january 6th select committee, who was very frustrated that it took merrick garland to move so quickly in his investigation. there is obviously a lot happening behind the scenes that we weren't made privy to until just recently but the broader point here is that this is kind of the fog of all of this, that the former president is trying to just push out there, to try and distract from the core evidence at hand here, and there isn't a whole heck of a lot that members of congress can do substantively, but there is a lot they can do by just complaining about this process, and undermining it, and making it that much more difficult for prosecutors to make their case. >> ryan nobles, live for us there on capitol hill, thank you. good to see you. we will sneak in a quick break before that white house briefing is set to start in a couple of minutes. we'll be back live with that in just a minute. we'll be back liv just a minute.

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. so we're just getting word that the white house briefing has been pushed back just about another 20 minutes or so. on the heels of that announcement now, just within the last hour, from the justice department, that in fact, merrick garland is appointing a special counsel, a guy named jack smith, to oversee the multiple investigations into former president donald trump. i want to bring in some members of our team here, including mike

memoli, carol leonig, national reporter julia ainsley, one of our nbc news corners, and vaughn hillyard is back with us again and i want to go back vaughn, for a second and then turn to you, from what we're hearing from former president trump, because you have, as you have been reporting, and we don't have vaughn, so mem, i will start you with and we have heard from former president trump in the interview with fox news.com, where he perhaps unsurprisingly continues to say that he is the one who is a victim here, that this investigation is unfair, and that it is political. the biden administration has been very clear in putting some distance between itself and these investigations, or at least between president biden and these investigations here, and i anticipate that, we probably won't hear much different, much divergent from that in just a couple of minutes. >> i think that's exactly right, hallie. when you think back to how president biden, as

president-elect was preparing for his administration, one of the most earnestly-discussed appointments that he was going to be making, nominations, was of course about attorney general. and the reason was because they knew they were heading into an environment in which one, the outgoing president, donald trump, was going to be obviously continually dogged by potential legal investigations but also of course what was revealed during the course of that presidential transition nearly two years ago now, which was that the president's own son, hunter biden, of course, was, had admitted to, acknowledged that he was under a federal investigation as well. and so in choosing the attorney general, the president ultimately nominated, merrick garland, they were intentionally sending a signal, by choosing somebody who at the time was a sitting judge, remember he was on the circuit court here in dc, the second highest court of the land, as it is often said, and merrick garland, a career jurist, seen as somebody who would be impartial, above the law, in some respects here, and a fair arbiter in all situations here, so that the white house could do exactly what we're likely to hear from krinne

jean-pierre when she takes to the podium in 20 minutes which is the president is completely removed from this and no interference with any decisions about how to prosecute this case moving forward, that they have supreme confidence in merrick garland in doing what he has done, and it is notable in this respect, because merrick garland himself was almost, the way he was described in the nomination process, a special counsel of sorts himself. and so now he is removing himself even further from the process, by having a special counsel to make these kind of decisions at the moment. and so now let's talk about what is happening at the white house this. briefing was supposed to happen about 45 minutes ago. it was delayed once. once we got that word, from the justice department about the special counsel being named, now delayed again, and you can understand why. the press secretary preparing for this briefing with her team, was originally anticipating frankly a different set of questions from everything about the student loan pause, to some of the fallout from the election, of course. we haven't heard from the white house since the president returned from his overseas trip.

we saw the house control flip to republican hands. also questions about what we know tomorrow at the white house wedding. and now the prep that the press secretary was likely to be engaged in, now likely to be sitting with members of the white house counsel to talk about what she can and can't say from the podium. i will predict we are likely to get a similar camera to what we got off camera, reporters lodging questions to the justice department and referring to the justice department and we will get at least some insight about how the president learned about this process moving forward is, there communication between the justice department, at least to give the white house the heads up that this was coming, did they have advanced knowledge much further than what we ourselves have learned publicly. >> mem, thanks. let me go to you, julie and jack smith's investigation here. talk about what is in the scope of the special counsel's orbit here and not in the scope of the special counsel's investigation. >> let me start what is not in

the scope and that would be prosecutions and investigations that have already begun around january 6th that specifically involve those who were physically present at the capitol. that will remain within the purview of the u.s. attorney for dc. that will continue. what is different now is trump's role in trying to interfere with the results of the 2020 election, and that would include the certification of that election, which as you know was going on at the capitol on january 6th. so it is not so much him having to come through, comb through some of the evidence we might have heard from congress and some of evidence that might have been gathered in terms of people like the oath keepers, and others, who tried to threaten violence that day, and said that will continue, that will be opposite, and he will focus specifically on what merrick garland has as key aspects of january 6th in regard to trying to overturn the results, that could also include the phone calls that we understand that

trump had, as president, with people in georgia, trying to change the results of the election, from that state, and then as we get to mar-a-lago, that seems to be a broader scope, where jack smith will have the ultimate oversight. and really from a 30,000 foot view. garland said he would not be involved in the day to day of the employees running the investigation but in order to make key decisions, prosecutorial decisions, we understand, because they will have prosecutorial power, and being able to recommend to the attorney general whether or not this prosecution should be made. and he will continue, hallie, if there are prosecutions, he would then be running that argument before a grand jury, before a court, to try to see these, from investigations, in prosecutions, if that line is crossed. also, he might have more longevity, if biden does not run again, if he is not re-elected, if trump is elected, jack smith could still be insulated and we have to prepare for the possibility that if trump is elected again, he may not keep jack smith on and his justice

department would have the authority to get rid of him in that case. but it's a very wide scope. it's a lot of work. a lot of responsibility on one man's shoulders. but in the statement that we've seen already from jack smith, he does not want to in any way slow down or impede this work that has already been start and i think that is key for people who might be worried bringing somebody in new that is new at this point in the game could slow things down. >> carol, i will turn to you, i know you have some thoughts on the appointment of jack smith himself even as he is already coming under fire from some republicans, allied with donald trump. >> i think that it is really important, hallie, to set some context around what all of the guests have accurately described about both his gambit and the decision to appoint him. the background and cop text is everything about these two investigations is unprecedented. we can't use the word enough, right? you don't have an attorney

general typically making choices about how to investigate someone who is actively running to replace your boss as president. and we don't often in our history, we have not had charges filed against a former president. so all of this is brand new territory. you can see why it must have been quite a difficult choice for garland, who does have a great reputation, used to have a great reputation with the republicans, when he was appointed to the circuit, and when he was up for nomination there, as a down the line, pensive, thorough, apolitical prosecutor and judge, and now, he's in this situation of i was named the a. g. by the guy who is probably going to run against the guy i'm investigating. jack smith is a great choice for a couple of reasons. one of them is he was called in to run public integrity, a pretty tense office, in the department of justice, in the

wake of an unbelievable scandal that led to prosecutors being basically driven out of their jobs because they withheld information, important information, in their prosecution of senator, republican senator ted stevens, so he took over a hot shop and a hot mess, and i think it is interesting that office continued to plunge forward into contentious controversial cases under his watch. so when he signaled in his statement that he's not going to pause or flag, you get the feeling that the case that's teed up in mar-a-lago may move very, very quickly, and the elements of the january 6th investigation, that conspiracy, that is much more complicated, it is going to move on pace, with some rapidity, but probably with not any direct action that we see on the surface for a little while.

>> carol leonig, thank you. vaughn hillyard, you're joining us as well. walk us through your reporting. >> so donald trump and donald trump fashion called up fox news a little bit here and provided some additional comments here about the special counsel being named here. and i will just read you some of the quotes here from what fox news is posting online in which donald trump says quote, i am not going to partake in it. i'm not going to partake in this. he referenced how it was, this has come just days after his 2024 announcement, and the other quote that of course that is notable, is quote, the republican party has to stand up and fight. which is the sentiment that he is continuing to push and as long as he remains the center of focus of these investigations, he's going to be looking at republicans to rally against him. just like they did after the mar-a-lago search warrant execution, hallie, and when you're talking about the investigation, surrounding january 6th, then donald trump's potential role into it taking into account two months ago those 40 subpoenas coming from

the department of justice to individuals around donald trump, it could lend credence to the idea that there has been more that has been gained by the department of justice over the last two months. and a subpoena was never issued to donald trump himself, though, of course, of note and just last week is when the january 6th select committee up on capitol hill was set to receive not only testimony, but also documents from donald trump. after going back and forth, trump and his team, they ultimately did not cooperate. they filed a counter lawsuit, essentially, to try to halt the subpoena efforts of the january 6th committee. the committee now says that they are looking into what the potential next steps they may take, of course, they're a little less politically deferential to donald trump, so the question is would refer potentially with contempt to the department of justice and that would be up to the department of justice taking that step there and donald trump indicating he

has no intention to work with the d.o.j. investigator and the january 6th committee over the next month and a half and we are expecting only hostility to arise. >> thank you for your fabulous reporting as always. recent. it we will keep an eye on the white house from the press briefing expected to start in five to eight minutes. and new developments from a courtroom here in washington, a different court, that seditious conspiracy case about to be in the hands of the jury with five oath keepers, on trial. we are going to take you there live. plus, a decision could be coming any minute from a judge in georgia. what's at stake in that senate runoff election? we've got the latest coming up. with less asthma. e and can help you breathe better in as little as 2 weeks. dupixent is an add-on treatment for specific types of moderate-to-severe asthma that's not for sudden breathing problems. dupixent can cause allergic reactions that can be severe. get help right away if you have rash, chest pain, worsening shortness of breath, tingling or numbness in your limbs. tell your doctor about new or worsening joint aches and pain, or a parasitic infection. don't change or stop asthma medicines,

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there are also some developments in a different department of justice case happening right now. that seditious conspiracy case against several oath keepers, getting ready to head to a jury. we've got the defense team finishing up their closing arguments after a trial that lasted nearly seven weeks, with these defendants accused of heavily arming themselves in a lead-up to january 6th to get over to talk over the government by force. listen, a conviction on seditious conspiracy charges would be a big deal because these are the most serious charges yet that we have that we seen in any january 6th case, and you know what the prison sentence is? up to 20 years for each defendant. ryan reilly is live outside of district court for us. walk us through the next steps here, ryan, and how each side, both the defense and the prosecution, tried to leave

their message in the minds of the jury in the closings? >> that's right. so one things that's important to understand here is that the government really hasn't presented any evidence that there was a pre-coordinated effort, a plan to storm the u.s. capitol on january 6th. what they presented evidence of is that there was a plan to oppose the peace and transfer of power by any means necessary, as the government has sort of put it. they've said what they essentially did was take advantage of the opportunity to go into the u.s. capitol on january 6th, when that opportunity presented itself. and in fact, this plan went on after january 6th and was about stopping the peaceful transfer of power before joe biden actually took office. what we had here today were arguments from the government, we had arguments from a number of the defendants, include an attorney for oathkeeper founder. one of the things that he the attorney had to say was the evidence for the defense was that there is no plan to storm the capitol, no plan to breach the rotunda, no plan to stop the

certification or delay the certification of an election. not one person has testified to you that there was a plan. so what the government has been able to present is a number of witnesses who said -- one said he was ready to die to keep donald trump in office. that's what all of this was about. a lot of the prosecution witnesses said that there was a common understanding that they were all united in this effort to stop president biden from taking office, to keep donald trump in office. even if there wasn't an explicit plan. and that's what the government is really emphasizing here. you don't have to have an explicit plan to storm the u.s. capitol for them to be around this conspiracy to stop the election. >> ryan reilly, thanks for staying on top of it. let's take you now to georgia. we're waiting to see whether we'll get a ruling today, any minute, perhaps, in that lawsuit over early voting in that highly anticipated senate runoff. democrats want folks in georgia to be able to head to the polls on the saturday after thanksgiving instead of the monday after. they want a couple of extra days

for early voting. watch. >> up until last week, the general understanding among voters and county board of elections including the secretary, even was that the law does permit voting on the saturday following a holiday in advance of a runoff. >> this legal fight is playing out as both candidates are picking up the space on the campaign trail. both herschel walker and incumbent democrat, raphael warnock, out making stops today. i want to bring in nbc news correspondent shaquille brewster in mcdonough, georgia. hey, shaq, bring us up to speed. >> the judge signaled that he understands this is a time-sensitive matter. that's why we keep refreshing our pages to understand if any decision will be made. at issue is whether or not we will see early voting here in the state of georgia on saturday after thanksgiving. the secretary of state's office says "no." georgia law does not allow it because of the proximity to the holiday. but democrats and senator warnock have sued the state saying, no, that's a

misinterpretation of the law. that that restriction doesn't apply to runoff elections and instead is applying to regularly scheduled elections. this will give counties the option to have that extra early voting date next saturday. meanwhile, voters when you talk to them, they're feeling the pressure. you mentioned those new ads that we're seeing, the intensity on the campaign trail picking up with more stops from the candidates. i want you to listen to my conversation with voters about how they're evaluating their choices now between senator warnock and herschel walker. >> i took walker for what he was. the man he was. and i thought, give him a chance and see how that works out. >> i can honestly said i did vote for him in the primary, but i want him now. i like his policies. >> who are you going to support? >> what i see now, warnock. >> why is that? >> i like the planned parenthood

thing, that stuff, i think that we should have a choice as women. >> reporter: this weekend, you'll see a sense of a strategy from both of these candidates and both of these campaigns. warnock in one of his ads went after ticket splitters, people who support the republican governor, but either backed warnock or did not vote for walker, just leaving that blank altogether. what you'll see this weekend is for the first time, brian kemp and herschel walker appearing together for a rally. they're hoping that that brings over some of those ticket splitters to the conservative side for a vote for excuse me, for walker, warnock is opening that those people who didn't vote for his opponent before, that they either stay back or come over to his side this time around in this runoff, hallie. >> shaq brewster live for us there in georgia. shaq, thank you. let me get a quick check from mike memoli on the latest as we are waiting for that white house briefing to begin, mike? >> reporter: hallie, we still haven't got what they call the two-minute warning, anticipating

karine jean-pierre's arrival in the briefing room. the news about the special counsel likely to be dominating some of the last-minute preps. but it is important to put what this briefing is into context, because it's the first briefing at the white house since we learned that republicans will, indeed, control the house majority and with that, of course, we know means controlling the gavels, controlling the oversight authority that was within the committee chairmanships. and in fact, just in the last minute or two, we got a statement from the potential future republican speaker of the house, kevin mccarthy, who reiterated the day that we also saw some letters from some of those incoming chairman about members of the biden administration they want to see held accountable, mccarthy saying in this new stadium that house republicans will be ready on day one to exercise our article one authority to hold the biden administration accountable. every congressional committee has oversight authority and we intend to finally get answers that the american people deserve. so while it's unlikely that we're going to get much new from the press secretary in terms of responding to the justice department's announcement today, i'm also curious to see just how

much at this very early stage we heard the biden white house lean into responding to these new concerns being raised from the incoming house majority after a midterm election in which the economy and issues related to the economy, gas prices, inflation, was the number one issue of concern for voters, how much will we hear this white house now respond to this signal that's already been sent by the incoming republican majority that investigations of the president and his administration and his family are going to be at one of their immediate priorities as well. >> mike memoli, outside the white house. mem, thank you. and thanks to all of you for watching this hours of msnbc. what a friday. we'll see you right back here on monday. and we'll see you on nbc news now for my streaming show in just a bit. right now, nicolle wallace will pick it up with "deadline white house" right after the break. w house" right after the break of ? yes, we all were. harvey wanted people to submit to him. he could destroy someone in seconds. people have tried to write this story. and he kills it every time. we're not gonna let that happen.

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hi, there, everyone. it's 4:00 n