police has reopened the investigation into barbara jean 's murder. tom lowenstein has investigated the little girls case longer than anyone. it is a journey that he is grateful he took. >> when walter got out on june 5th, there is that sense of, like my dad saying, that notion of being useful and doing something useful in life. and i definitely, that day, it felt useful. for >> that is all for this edition of dateline. i am andrea canning, thank you for watching. ou for watching >> so, when congress returns in january, nancy pelosi won't be in charge of house democrats. and whatever you might think about pelosi, she was undeniably the most

consequential speaker of our lifetimes. more on her massive legacy. both good and bad in just a moment. also, gerrymandering didn't just cost democrats the house, some multiple state legislatures. we'll take you to wisconsin, where some small data is -- also, viral pastor doctor jamal bryan's has a double standard against black churches engaging in politics. that's coming up! solid start the show. welcome to the show. i'm mehdi hasan. on thursday, a major era ended in american politics. after the democratic party in particular. >> and with great confidence, in our caucus i. will not seek reelection to democratic leadership in the next congress. for me, the hours come from a new generation to lead the democratic caucus. that i so deeply respect. >> after a standing ovation

from the house of representatives, outgoing speaker, nancy pelosi, announced that she will step down as leader of the democrats in the house. with the new congress convening in january. pelosi represented cannon for an's 12 district and 35 years. and she plans to say on in the house as a -- . it's hard to quantify the impact that she's had in american politics. having to certify the speaker twice, in the -- the mayor of paul tomorrow, and the sister of the mayor of baltimore. pelosi's own political career. which began in 1987. has been literally, undeniably historic. she was the first woman to be beating house minority whip. the first woman to be the house minority leader. and the first woman to ever be elected speaker of the house of representatives. in 2019, she made history again becoming the first person in six decades to reclaim the speakers gavel after losing it. she also became the oldest

speaker in american history. for many liberals, she is the queen. a hashtag, resistant icon. the muster of the come back. for many on the last, she is an establishment centrist. eager to compromise a block on progressive priorities. but overall, i think nancy pelosi is complicated. he has she mocked the squad, dismiss the green new deal, and -- but she also, unlike clinton, biden, schumer. oppose the invasion of iraq. she made sure that every -- could wear a hijab in the house. and was one of the most earliest components of marriage equality. she has been the most powerful and consequential woman in american politics. it is impossible to sum up her complex legacy in five or ten minutes. so today, i think it's worth highlighting in what my opinion, has been her greatest achievement. and her greatest failure as speaker of the house.

for her greatest achievement, well, tens of millions of americans have health care today. thanks to nancy pelosi's tireless fight to pass the affordable care act in 2010. >> we go through the gates, the gates close. we'll go over the fence. the fence is too high. will pull bold in. if that does it work. well parachute in. but will going to get health care reform passed for the american people. >> as molly bald notes in her biography of nancy pelosi, the speaker of the caucus had been relentlessly at the time calling dozens of law f makers and asking for their average. she called police -- leaders in italy to get there -- on the bill. and pressured a moderate india democrat to get on board. she even attended the annual football game to cheer on and colleague there. all this jockeying paid off, helping to pass obamacare. and ensure more than 30 million americans. in fact, one congressman even

handed out celebratory buttons that read out, pelosi care. i was there. so it had to be on top of the list of any pelosi achievements. but as for failures? for me, it's a fact that speaker pelosi never showed any real interest in investigating president trump and his family. and had to be dragged into impeaching him both times. after the mueller report was released in 2019, she rejected calls to impeach the president for fear it would -- and according to a recent vote, even after eventually, belatedly, deciding to move forward with impeachment for trump's pressure campaign in ukraine. pelosi limited the scope of that impeachment inquiry, rush the process, skip subpoenas for key witnesses like former national security adviser john bolton. this inaction, some signals at the time, signal to trump that he would be getting off scot-free. when trump was impeached a

second time after inciting a violent attack on the capitol. police see full walk that process to. so she was ambitious in some areas, supercautious and others. that didn't stop the misogynistic attacks on her from the right. as some sort of all powerful, and evil force. especially from republicans who spent the past decade in the more demonizing her. and -- attacking her in the past two election cycles alone. the right-wing vitriol got to a point when last month her husband paul pelosi was brutally attacked in the home. by a man, who according to the fbi. was looking for nancy. and was planning to kneecap. herwas looking for na ncy. and was planning to kneeca thaty about pelosi. she has picked off the right people, the worst people. and the speaker where the numbers aren't the critics on the left of the right, denied that she had a caucus with power and style after the words of politico. she has been an eye and fist in a gucci glove. joining me now, niche shull --

an msnbc political analyst. nichelle, thanks for coming out on the show. how will history judge nancy pelosi? how would you characterize her legacy as a two-time speaker? >> i mean, i think they will judge her as the most affective house speaker of the modern age. one of the most powerful women ever heard in american politics. and someone who was, kind of, constantly underestimated. because she hadn't, you know, because she was a housewife. before she wanted to go into politics. she was a self effort first person. and had stepped back from a career to raise children. and, given the a moments amount of time attending to her public issue -- >> image. there is a story in the biography of pelosi, where she talks about how when congressman jack marta decided to come out against the iraq

war, he went out there by himself and did it. and a lot of people criticize pelosi for not, kind of, being on the stage with him. and giving him backup. and she took that criticism. it was on us, and valid. it was a big story at the time. and it weighed, it turns out, that she was behind the scenes. her and -- , had come up with his fine together. and jointly decided that he would be more affective. and he didn't seem like he was working with the left. and so she was willing to kind of, take the heads if it meant that she could be more effective in getting either the preferred message, or preferred policies passed. >> it's fascinating. and she was of course, the first woman house minority leader. the first woman speaker. as she pointed out, when she announced that she is stepping down on the house floor. america and congress both look very different to what they look like when she was elected in 1987. don't they? >> absolutely. she was elected at a time of just rampant sexual harassment.

and now, you have a congress, i believe she said that there is 90 women in the democratic caucus. i could be wrong. but, yeah, you have a congress that looks, you know, much much more like america. at least on the democratic side. and that is not entirely worth doing. but she has certainly been a major part of that. >> so, michelle, you are critical at the time of pelosi's handling of the first trump impeachment. as was, i as we're others. i still think that the historians will say that democrats were too soft. to slow. when it came to investigating trump and his family, and his acolyte holding to him to account. impeaching him, yes that too. but a lot of the blame for that has to be placed on a super cautious pelosi, does it not, as a reasonable argument as well? >> i think that that is absolutely true, i think that she was very slow to investigate trump, i think she didn't want to be seen to do what the republicans are doing

today, which is coming right out of the gate and saying that their first priority is a hunter biden and mint investigation. and i think she probably over learned the lessons of the quinton impeachment. but this isn't like the clinton impeachment, these impeachments work for high crimes and misdemeanors. and there were other high crimes and misdemeanors that went on vest a gated and unprosecuted. and i think we've seen, for example, with the january six committee. the power of a highly publicized, systematic investigation. to change the public conversation. >> so there's legitimate criticisms of pelosi. there is a legitimate criticisms, which flows intimate misogyny. flows into hate. without nancy pelosi as there, villain who will the gop, who will the right demonizes next michele? this is the favorite to take over a black man, it won't be hard for them to target him i guess? >> i think that that is true.

although i do think that they reserved the special, you're right, obviously this is the targeted barack obama. i'm sure they will have -- ferc mr. jeffries. i do think that there is a certain part of the republican party reserved for women. you're seeing it right, now with his are accession among republicans. which includes fetterman, the wife of the incoming senator for pennsylvania, sure that they will continue to obsess about the squad, and, you know, maybe they will kind of turn some of their vitriol towards vice president kamala harris. -- at least more of their vitriol. >> indeed, we are seeing what might be a coronation for king jeffries, this new york congressman who had been in charge of the caucus. the conference of 2019, being congress for a decade. what can we expect from a jeffries-led party? and we should point out, nancy pelosi said she'll be sticking

around as a backbencher. she is not leaving the house. so she will be there to guide him, mentor him, advise him if he wants that. ento>> so i'm not sure. but what i do, what i hope to see from the jeffries led party is more overtures to the left. and it doesn't necessarily mean that, sort, of jeffries cannot govern as a. he's a sexist figure. but i think there is a difference between trying to bring the left along, and trying to treat them with contempt. or treating them as an annoyance. and one thing, as you said, nancy pelosi was dismissive of the green new deal. but she also, sort of, she stood up for ilhan omar. she welcomes members of the squad. into the caucus. and make sure that they were involved in legislating and governing. i would be a little bit worried about jeffrey is trying to marginalize these figures, which, you know, ideology aside. the democratic party cannot

afford to do. at a time when they are, they are just a few seats shy of a majority. >> well the media will be waiting to have a field day with dems in disarray. i think it's interesting that nancy pelosi wants that complex figure who was able to, as you say, bring in the squad, keep them on board, and do things on the climate that kept the left happy, while at the same time according for example susan page's biography. she mocked them in private, she mimic, them she didn't elect them as an entity, so she walked that balancing, that tightrope. hakeem jeffries is seeing a little bit more of an abrasive figure against a lot, we'll see what happens next. michelle, we appreciate your analysis as much as ever. thank you. >> thank you. >> still to come, we all agree in america church and state are supposed to be separate. by what does that rules seem to only apply to black churches these days? passer jamaal bryant in the baptist state in georgia, enjoy this for important subject

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weeks before the final senate seat is decided in that georgia runoff between democrat raphael warnock, and republican herschel walker. and there've been so many clarifying moments in this campaign, but i'm still thinking about one particular moment, it happened in a church outside of atlanta, the sunday before election day. >> ladies and gentlemen, where

the republican party of georgia moved herschel walker from texas to georgia. so that he could run for senate, it's because change was taking too fast, in the pulse antebellum south. they thought we were so slow, that we were so stupid, that we would elect the lowest caricature of a stereotypical, broken black man, as opposed to somebody who was educated in that erudite, and focused. y'all ain't ready for me today. since herschel walker was 16 years old, white man been telling him what to do. telling him what school to go to, where to live, where the eat. where to buy a house, where the water. where is it down. where to sleep. where the pair for abortions, where to buy a gun, and you think that they are not going to tell him how to vote? in 2022 we don't need a walker. we need a runner.

>> pretty powerful, and yes provocative stuff, i think we can all agree. that was pastor jamaal bryant in the new birth missionary baptist church, absolutely going off on herschel walker and his candidacy. the pulpit message quickly became a viral sensation online. just the latest and most visible of many black faith leaders criticizing walker for hypocrisy, dishonesty, and cynicism. it even got coverage of so many often do, by the new york times, but how do you suppose the times phrase that? as a possible violation of tax code by black faith leaders. >> quote, while he didn't ask his congregation to vote for herschel walker, his remarks may not have followed a rule. that rule is the 1950s era johnson amendment, which prove a.i.d.s. any nations from participating in any campaigns. on behalf of political

candidates on opposition to them. it also bans leaders endorsing candidates from the pulpit, makes sense you. walk us to speak freely but you won't let them trade their influence for charitable donations. or part of their and trackable cash all of the election played. it's about separation of church and state. it was the one at play when they denied the coalition taxes back in 1989. the johnson amendment is no joke, or at least it used to be no joke. >> now if you vote democrat, i don't even want you around this church, you can get out. you can get out you demon. you can get out your baby butchering. election thief, you cannot be a christian and vote democrat in this nation! >> the american socialist party, they -- and liberal democrats are promising to tax people 70% of their income. >> you see any difference when you put left-wing progressives

in office? ladies and gentlemen, if houston and harris county is going to survive, we had better throw those bombs out of office. >> i got a candidate that wants to win, i got a mayor that god wants to unseat. we >> can break into provide any confederacy against the election, against america, against who you have the clue to be in the white house. >> we have two choices in new mexico, we have the wicked witch of the north, or you have mark. you better get registered to vote. and we better vote her right out of office. >> that's so weird, that's a parade of white, conservative pastors openly politicking for white conservative candidates, and causes. one of them, greg locke has even traveled on mike flynn's qanon supporting roger when he called democrats baby butchering mongols and bragged about getting them out of his church. how do they get away with it?

well, in recent years the irs has largely abdicated it's enforcement responsibilities as churches have become more brazen about public feedback in candidates, according to an october investigation by propublica and the texas tribune, it's because the religious right since the johnson amendment as their attack on free speech. so much so that donald trump tried to shore up his support with an executive order relaxing the rules on politicking. it work for trump, it got their votes, but they never got it overturning congress. the point, is predominantly white christian churches have been politicking for conservative causes and candidates for years, with impunity. so why with the new york times criticize black pastors for weighing in on the race in georgia? the state where martin luther king junior, and other leaders began a long legacy of political activism that marked the entire civil rights era across the south? >> where black churches continue that tradition of getting solved for the polls today. it seems to be another cooked

up controversy, a peculiarly one sided view of a long time trend in america, a view that just happens to target black activism, where it's been needed most, and black voters were voting while black is still a fraud endeavor. pastor jamaal bryant, joins me now. thank you so much for joining me on the show. appreciate you coming on the show. and you delivered the version of a very viral, very provocative sermon and then you did that interview for the new york times and you said that you were endorsing senator warnock, you added this quote, i want to see, why and bill angelical's have been very prominent to who they push and why. but when the black church clears its throat, then we hear, what is a demarcation between church and states? you just heard those white evangelicals, conservatives i played. do you believe that there is a double standard here? and what is that double standard in your view? >> oh, it's not just a double

standard it is a jumping double dutch. you have seen a whole cavalcade of white evangelicals, who tell white question nationalism, when there is even a strand of liberation theology, it is considered foul play. it is always been historic, going back to the era of slavery, when those pictures are called for the underground railroad, and for african american to realize as their freedom, they were called out and we're castrated and or lynched, white evangelicals have been doing admiral here in america, we see no different. and what you see in that article is just the latest positive it. >> so, let's agree pastor, i think you put it very eloquently there, but this is wrong, it's a double standard, but what should the standard be? is greg locke saying that democrats are baby murdering

demons, just the price of you speaking your truth and staying tax-exempt. what do you say to a non-religious progressive that says none of you, whether you're democrats, republicans, conservatives, liberals, none of you should have tax exemptions if you're gonna be doing politics from the pulpit? >> i think of it, what my counterpart said, this is a whole lot different. what i was doing was an open critique of a public figure, not an endorsement of the candidates, i did not say that it's all evangelicals or republicans were going to hill, which is a counter-of the theology that they are pumping up to us. so every day georgians are receiving emails, and he blasts, and robocalls saying that if you support senator warnock who is for pro-choice, then you cannot be christian. and i think that that is absolutely an error. and that i think that american

has to do a evaluation between christian dunn and marshall-ism. >> let's talk about the vote in this runoff election, because georgia officials read by republican secretary brad raffensperger, we all remember him, have banned voting this sunday before the runoff. because the day after, a state holiday, which state holiday? one that previously honored confederate robert elysburg they. as a georgian, as a pastor, as a black man, what do you think when you hear that? >> it is in keeping, we have to be clear that it was a past, not because of voter fraud, but because of voter turnout, in the last election cycle, when senator warren backwards duly elected, it was a higher turnout in georgia then for the presidential election, and so they came together and conspired amongst themselves, how could they stop it? that's a consequence that they made as also the paul's elector as a consequence.

they made it illegal to get water for those who have been waiting in live, or assistance, for those physically challenged. it's not for voter fraud, it's to suppress black brown and other voters. but we are really focus that the heart of america on the, land and you're getting ready to see on december 6th a voter turnout as georgia's have never seen before. >> so, senator raphael warnock is also a pastor at ebenezer baptist church in atlanta, which is a post once held by dr. martin luther king jr.. and yet he's getting savage by herschel walker, by evangelical conservatives in georgia and beyond as an immoral, irresponsible, socialist but the right said the same thing about dr. king before they venerated him after they died, didn't they. >> yeah, it is amazing that they are accusing senator warnock of what herschel walker is guilty of, reverend warnock

has held a life of pristine character, holding to high moral integrity, and they have swept up all of herschel walker's missteps under the rug until there is a lump in the carpet, but character and mobile fighter are without question. >> pastoral jamal by, and we will have to leave it there, thank you so much, we appreciate. it >> i'm grateful. >> still ahead, we'll take a look at the redistricting in wisconsin, and how gerrymandering led to the gop taking the house in this year's election there. stay with us! stay with us a date, a day off, or a double shift. make your move and get out in front of eczema with steroid-free cibinqo. not an injection, cibinqo is a once-daily pill for adults who didn't respond to previous treatments. and it's proven to help provide clearer skin and relieve itch fast. cibinqo continuously treats eczema whether you're flaring or not. cibinqo can lower your ability to fight infections,

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up taking the house for the five, six, or even seven seat majority. those seats were already basically guaranteed to them, thanks to gerrymandering. thanks to the fact that they drew their own district maps boundaries, in places like florida and ohio to gary into themselves seats in congress. but as bad as that is, as bad as the gerrymandering at that level is, it's nothing compared to how gop redistricting has undermined democracy in state legislatures. take wisconsin, you can be into thinking of names like brian, and scott walker, and this is a red state through and through, but wisconsin voters sent the first socialist in congress, victor, in 1910.

and wisconsin was home of longtime republican senator fighting bob, in many ways, the father of the american progressive political movement. so what's changed for the past century? in today's wisconsin, the majority of voters still tend to vote democrat. they elected a democratic attorney in 2018, elected joe biden in 2020. and voted to reelect beavers. but despite all those votes, republicans inspired not just a majority, by the super majority in the legislature. my msnbc colleague chris hayes explain how last week. >> people of wisconsin came out and said, who do we want to govern the state? and by two points, the people of wisconsin said we would like the democratic governor state. and when those votes were fed into the maps, the republicans themselves had written, what it sped out was near super majorities in both the house, and senate, for the republicans with the same votes. that got tony evers elected by

a good margin. >> it's crazy! and it's true, to understand why you have to go back to 2010, that year the tea party movement got scott walker elected wisconsin's first republican governor in eight years. and the gop also got control of the legislature for the first time, in over a decade. the following year, that republican government re-drew the states maps in secret, and in 2012 the map worked brilliantly, republicans won six out of 1990 seats in the state, and held -- even though they got less than 50% of all the votes. and much less in 2018, went airy berman notes, that your democrats in all five state races who had won 53% of votes cast, but the party retained just 36% of seats in the state legislature. republicans have figured out how to make elections voter proof. it's not just through gerrymandering either. in 2018, when wisconsin

reverted ousted governor and elected tony very, state republicans just held up a lame duck up legislature session to skip ever's of political powers, because if you are a republican -- and they also shorted early voting for all subsequent elections. but wait there's more. thanks to the conservative state supreme court, republican appointees have been allowed to stay in certain roles to this day, even though their terms expired, and the democratic governor should be able to appoint new ones. wisconsin's gerrymandered maps were also held in 2019 by a hard right u.s. supreme court which later said it wouldn't get involved in partisan gerrymandering anymore, wisconsin's maps remain even more pro republican by the gop legislature then redistricting last year, and they were upheld by the republican dominated supreme court. so that now, despite singing statewide defeats in 2018, 20, 20 and 2022, republicans are still calling the shots in

wisconsin, and last week they secured a supermajority in the senate, and only narrowly missed out on super majority in the house as well, by 2499 votes, according to wisconsin democratic party chair barren when claire. according to a market university study, democrats would now have to wait in two thirds of the statewide votes to get half the seats in the legislature, so serious question. if wisconsin were a foreign country, would you even still complete our democracy? after the break i will speak to wisconsin democratic chair ben wikler about that health of democracy in the badger state. acy in the badger state. led mess? try downy wrinkle guard fabric softener! wrinkle guard penetrates deep into fibers, leaving clothes so soft, wrinkles don't want to stick around. make mornings smoother with downy wrinkle guard fabric softener. ♪ from holiday hills, illinois to rudolph, wisconsin.

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how do democrats get elected in the states so gerrymandered that republicans got a mere supermajority in both chambers of the legislature? super majorities, without super

majorities of the vote, joining me now ben wangler chair of that democratic party, then there has been a lot of celebrating this week in democratic circles, liberal circles about not just fending off a red wave but saving democracy in america, a lot of elections deniers got defeated, and i worry that it is a rightful focusing on election deniers, we forget about gerrymandering which is another piece of this puzzle, andrew wisconsin seems to be ground zero for it. >> it really, deeply, profoundly is and by some measures, wisconsin is the most gerrymandered state in the united states of america. and the reality is that we had one or two wheels off to the side of the cliff, and were able to swerve barely away from the cliffside, if republicans had gotten super majorities in both chambers of our state legislature, they could've renewed election laws to ensure that is the republican candidate for governor here said, they never lose another election in wisconsin. but we managed to stop them by

2499 votes into state legislature districts, that's how closely became but we did stop them and that meant that there was a threat of hope about what is possible in the future here. >> so, next april i believe there's gonna be a election to replace retiring conservative on the wisconsin state court which this year alone approved that aggressive map, pence morals absentee mail boxes and things are getting worse not better, and i wonder, at a national level, i've criticize the democratic party for not prioritizing winning court seats or appointing judges at the federal level, or electing judges at the state level, in wisconsin that's gonna be a big campaign free was it not? >> this is gonna be a massive election it's really second of importance only to the governor's race and the supermajority fight in our state elections. in terms of the significance, not just for the next couple of years. but really for the next decade or the rest of my life. if republicans can't unilateral power to control the rules over which votes are counted and how

they're counted, and how they're cast, they can break the system so that they can never lose power, that if we have someone who believes in our constitutional guarantee that voters who have equal rights in our state, when the supreme supreme court race in april 20th, 2023. that person will be the deciding vote on welling to strike down that gerrymandered maps, and wisconsin could become lake michigan where they had fair maps in the election, and the year when democrats win in the statewide races. they also win at the trifecta, in the legislative. level and be able to write the values of the public into the law. the extreme maga minority, so this is really a race for all of the marbles, in the democratic party of wisconsin, we are keeping dozens of staff on our payroll, on our team to make sure that we are ready for state supreme court fight that we're gonna have to prosecute by a state run national stakes very important election. >> i think it's bizarre that judges are elected, but that's a discussion for another day, let me ask you this ben. in michigan you mentioned they just flipped all the chambers,

the first time since 1982. they have the trifecta now in michigan, under fair, independent maps. these weren't gerrymandered maps by the democrats, this is let's run out of fair map and see who went to the democrats run. it's also threw a petition about initiative the last time around, that got this independent, redistricting committee. is that for wisconsin ago out down that world? >> i wish it were, under wisconsin's constitution a bill has the pass, a constitutional amendment has to pass through two successive sessions of the state legislator before it goes in front of voters, so there is no path to direct democracy here, to fix the maps, and governor evers proposed creating a referendum process. and of course our gerrymandered legislatures struck in the town. they gaveled, in gaveled out of the session in less than a minute. so the one path, it's like the avengers movies when there's only one path to defeat that knows. the one path is to win the majority on our state supreme court, strike down the gerrymandered maps. i should say, if anyone wants to support them, they can go to with them thought or it slash donate, and we would be

completely grateful. >> yeah, interventions and game ban, tony stark found a way to travel through time, i would challenge tony start to find a way around these wisconsin maps of yours, that would be a challenge for any genius, let me ask you this though band before we run out of time, there's no question that these are ridiculous, they hurt your party. but that's not your only issue in wisconsin. mandela barnes ran statewide, you can't blame his defeat on gerrymandering, why did he go down to someone like ron johnson? elections and i. or anti-vaxxer. please be bad for the people in wisconsin. >> it's very, very painful especially because he came closer to the feeding run chances that anyone has. this was the closest senate race in 100 years in wisconsin, a democrat hasn't defeated as sitting republican senator since 1962. 60 years ago. and in that year we had a president with a 70% approval rate, the mandela barnes did extraordinarily well. the most people thing with that ron johnson's biggest legislative achievement was given a big tax cut to the biggest -- of the conservative movement.

dixie and -- a wisconsin billionaire, they got about a half billion dollars in tax deductions thanks to a law that -- wrote. and they funded a 20 million dollar attack campaign against mandela barnes. -- >> so you don't need gerrymandering when you have very rich friends, then winkler will have to leave it there thank you so much, appreciate it. still to come! my conversation with the director of in her hands, a new netflix documentary following the lives of afghanistan's largest female male, after the taliban takedown. what happened? her don't go away! t go away! r... the dribbler's getting hands-on practice with her chase first banking debit card... the drummer's making savings simple with a tap... ...round of applause. and this dreamer, well, she's still learning how to budget, so mom keeps her alerts on full volume. hey! what? it's true! and that's all thanks to chase first banking. freedom for kids. control for parents. one bank with tools for both,

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this is the planning effect. >> since the u.s. exit from

afghanistan last year, conditions for women have rapidly deteriorated. the latest headlines are extreme of bad news, in just recent, days women in afghanistan were banned from public parks, and gyms. they were banned from attending school beyond the sixth grade, and made to bring a male guardian for a long distance travel. and reports that the taliban have ordered judges to have their interpretation of sharia law, it's expected to get worse. a new netflix documentary titled in her hands, follows the life of one of the first women mayors in afghanistan during the taliban's return to, power and reminds us about what afghan women are up against. >> my name is that he, i am not a hero, i am just the mayor of

my don chair. >> and they had a position, and do they have -- together. >> afghanistan is facing a tsunami of hunger. >> the mayor featured in that documentary, a champion of women's rights, has since had to flee the country. hillary and chancey clinton are among the producers of this film. and it was directed by -- a young african filmmaker were joins me now. thanks for coming on the show. there have been a lot of documentaries about the war of afghanistan. the plight of its women. why did you want to make this particular film and base it on this particular merit -- ? >> thank you so much mehdi for having me. i'm grateful to be here. to be able to talk about the situation in afghanistan. i started working on this -- a german filmmaker. and went to 2020, when there is peace negotiations and things

going on between the taliban and the u.s. government so as for me as a woman to manage to go to university and work, it was very important to see what will happen timothy share of my country. the taliban comes to power, because they already have the platform in qatar, so yeah, that's when we decided to work on the -- and we were not expecting to see whatever happened to my country, we are still trying to process as a nation. >> and what is represent? she said that she wasn't gonna fully afghanistan. but then sadly had to. what is the overall message of her, and this film. is there any hope or they're in women and afghanistan right now? is it a hopeful film? >> maybe it, is not that we are talking about it from, it shows that we still have hope. i had to flee right after she left the country, and build a generation who decided to stay. before the taliban, there were explosions, there was conflict in my country, but we decided

to stay to build the country. but then, everything changed and we were expecting taliban to be part of the government. we knew the inclusive government, not that we had right now in afghanistan. people are suffering, we are suffering, and everyone in afghanistan is suffering, and those are the ones who led, and it is really important to document what was going on, so, yeah she was a great character, a person the follow because she was working in a -- fighting by a former, in the taliban to continue. >> you made this documentary with the support of former secretary of state, hillary clinton. she has been criticized for her hawkish views when it comes to places like afghanistan, iraq, foreign wars. has that been an issue producing this film with someone who voted for the invasion of afghanistan as a senator? that oversaw the law for four years as u.s. secretary of state. does it help with eyeballs in the publicity? or does it hurt the films in terms of the politics

associated with that. i'm fascinated by that. >> i'm not a politician, but i do care about women and women's rights, and i do care about what is happening in afghanistan. and i'm grateful to receive the support from hillary clinton, and i was really happy to see that she did not kick about when they were deciding the -- of the film, they criticize the government in this film. and she wanted to see the premier of the film and she didn't, she was happy with the film and. we are happy with what we've managed to make, and also, it's sad to see that just because she's a woman, she gets more credit says than men. and it's everywhere. and whenever i talk about sexism, about politics, i'm not a politician but my life is political, my body is political as a woman. so, yeah i'm happy to have her

support, and she does care about women's rights, because she was talking about the film, she was one of the first people who supported the project. >> so one last question for you, i've got to ask how your friends and your own family doing back in afghanistan under taliban rule. are they safe? >> to be honest, it has been a few nights i'm not able to sleep. because it's not only the things you read on, the news it's more than that, i've had friends and family in different provinces, and there is no health system. people who are sick, they are not able to get treatment anymore. they have to go to neighboring countries if they are privileged and lucky enough to have people outside of the countries to send the money to do that, and also women are not able to work. they're not able to go to public jail and park, they're not able to live their lives freely, but i used to have all of these opportunities in my life. for the past 20 years, when i lived in afghanistan.

it's frustrating, it's sad and -- >> sorry to hear that. -- >> yeah it's sad to see the situation. and also to see that nobody really talks about it. we talk about equality, justice, it's undue words, but there is a huge gap between what's in action. we really need to take action to prove that we do care about humans. no matter which part of the world, well said. there is always sad news. >> you should capitalize on action, will always keep it there. tarana, thanks for coming on the show. in her hands is slimming on netflix. that does it for the many her son. show us your sunday at 8 pm on msnbc, we'll kick off another week of in-depth interviews with key news makers. and you can join us anytime on facebook, twitter, instagram, and tiktok. for now, from me. goodbye! from me goodbye!

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