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it's saturday, november 19th. i'm maria teresa kumar, filling in for my good friends, ali velshi. donald trump, the twice impeached ex president who inspired a violent mob on the steps of the capital, it's running for president again. and he's doing it and midst multiple intensifying investigations. austin 72 hours after trump's announcement, attorney general merrick garland named a longtime federal prosecutor, jack smith, as the special counsel who will take over the

justice department criminal investigations of trump's role in the january six insurrection. and the possible mishandling of highly classified documents that the fbi recovered from mar-a-lago. at a press conference the attorney general explained his decision. take a listen. >> such an important appointment underscores the departments commitment to both independents and accountability and particularly sensitive matters. it also allows prosecutors and agents to continue their work expeditiously and to make decisions indisputably guided only by the facts and the law. throughout his career, jack smith has built a reputation that's at impartial and determines prosecutor, who leads teams with energy and focus, to follow the facts or ever lately. as special counsel, he will exercise independent prosecutorial judgment to decide whether charges should be brought. >> joining me now is the democratic congress elect

daniel goldman of new york. come january, he will represent the state's tenth district, which includes parts of manhattan and brooklyn. he is also former house impeachment major council, the former director of the investigation for the house intel committee, and the former u.s. attorney for the southern district of new york. thank you so much for joining me. congratulations on your election. >> right. >> i'd like to talk to you a little bit about the timing of the attorney general's appointment of a special counsel and trump's announcement of a presidential run, which means they will probably be on top of that. we will be talking about that for a long time. or is it because of the presidential run that made sure that merrick garland went ahead and did the special counsel, and the timing of it, i, think it's a little strange. it seems it's going to elongate this investigation. what do you make of this? >> well, think, it's very frustrating in some ways that donald trump could make his announcement. obviously, very early, and that would prompt and essentially

create enough of a conflict or an appearance of a conflict of interest that the attorney general felt like he had to appoint a special counsel. these investigations have been going on for monster, even over a year for the january 6th investigation, and there was no special counsel. so now that trump has sort of manufactured it, it's frustrating. on the other hand, i think merrick garland has been incredibly consistent and determined to make sure that there is no appearance of a conflict of interest from the very beginning of his tenure. i don't think this will actually have a significant impact on the investigations. they will include the same line prosecutors who are investigating it now. it will just be under the oversight of jack smith, a very reputable, longtime prosecutor. so, i think this is much more diffuse any potential allegation of politicization,

and it won't have a dramatic impact on the investigations. >> so, one of the things i want to ask you is last sunday, you tweeted out, i ran for congress on a platform of protecting our democracy and reforming the electoral count. that's a critical piece of that platform. we must pass these reforms as soon as possible to prevent would authoritarians like trump from overturning the will of the voters. with a divided congress set to take over in the new year, what's the hope of electoral reform, and two other pieces of legislation can be passed to modernize our election systems to protect from again, extremism? >> well, the first priority has to be to pass an electoral counts reform act in this lame duck period. there is a bipartisan group of senators that supports it, and i'm very hopeful that they can get it over the finish line before i join in january.

but a lot of this is going to be calling out the authoritarian aspects of donald trump and the house republicans, many of whom he still controls. to point out and point up the importance of our democracy, of our rule of law, and how donald trump continues to subvert its. the notion that he is not going to partake in the special counsel's investigation is farcical, because no one cares whether he is partaking in it or not. potential defendants don't get to decide whether they're charged or not by prosecutors. so, we're going to hear the same kind of bogus rhetoric that we've heard from donald trump for the last seven years about a political witch hunts and this and facts, and it's all white noise at this point. that department of justice and the special counsel need to proceed with their investigation, and those of us

in congress are going to have to do everything that we can to safeguard our elections, to make sure that everybody gets access to the ballot, that we are reducing gerrymandering and the principle of one person, one vote, to continue to guide our constitutional right to vote. >> and i think one of the things we learned from the voters this past election if they are aligned with you. they are tired of these pendulum elections, and they are tired of extremism. i want to bring in this other part of the conversation, because back about 18 months ago, i had to testify on the disinformation spread, and one of the people i was testifying to was the republican congressman jim jordan, who will now become the chair of the house judiciary committee in the new congress. what i found so striking was that here we are, a group of individuals who really studied this information, trying to sound the alarm, and the people and witnesses he brought

forward where all this information. he himself was perpetuating disinformation during this hearing. what shot do we have, when all we hear right now, jim jordan wanting to do is to float the idea of impeachment proceedings for the democrats? how do you think the democrats should respond, and how do we sound the alarm of how roth certain parts of congress really are when it comes to safeguarding our democracy? >> the answer is i have a very personal experience taking on jim jordan and his perpetuation of this information, which occurred during the first impeachments of marie's mom, about ukraine, about the server, and jim jordan and other republican members of congress were perpetuating this disinformation as their defense of donald trump. it is a significant and serious problem. it's also a problem when they start talking about impeaching either secretary mayorkas or even joe biden, because they disagree with their policies. let's be very clear.

impeachments requires some sort of constitutional crime, a violation of the constitution, which could also just be a regular common law crime, but it is not meant to remove anyone because you disagree with their policies. so, one of the things i will be pointing out, very consistently, is that this is jim jordan and the house republicans overreach to try to remove, improperly, and in an abuse of their own power, somebody whose policies they simply disagree with. that's not the point of impeachment. i think the american people will see right through that. >> so, representative-elect daniel goldman, thank goodness you are there to sound the alarm. also, you understand the mechanisms to protect our democracy. thank you for joining, and congratulations again. >> thank you so much. >> i'm joined now by the

democratic representative, stacey plaskett of the u.s. virgin islands. she previously served as impeachment managers during the second impeachment of donald trump. she is also a member of the house ways and means, agriculture, and budget committees. thank you for joining the. i have so much to ask. you i wish we had so much time for the whole hour, just because you understand the inner workings, but my first question to you, congresswoman, is, you were one of the first people in congress to feed the importance of appointing a special prosecutor during donald trump's term in office. do you feel the attorney general, in his decision yesterday, is the right one based on your own experience? >> well, you know, i think that the special investigator is not this is a really needed. the special counsel is not needed. but i think there is a segment of our population that will find comfort in this. in the same way that the january six committee, if you will recall, when the committee had witnesses come, those witnesses were, in fact, republicans. so there was no way that one

could impugn the credibility of individuals being parts of the far left coming after the president who just wanted to destroy him. these were people within his circle. in the same way, the special investigator is one other liar, a mechanism to remove the attorney general, who is a political appointee, from the final decision making or from the process by which a decision is being made. i think merrick garland can take comfort in having jack smith, who has -- there is no way you can impugn his credibility, his chops in the prosecutorial community. if he is someone who is above partisanship, and so a recommendation coming for him for indictment of the presidents or other individuals related to any of the actions of the president during his administration, it's one that individuals who may be questioning whether or not this has political motivations will

be able to rest easy on. >> so, i think one of the things that is interesting is in response to the appointment of special counsel, donald trump told fox news that quote, for -- worst of justice in the country. he called for republicans to quote, stand up and fight. what's your thoughts on this response? >> yeah, i mean, it's typical a soundbite he uses over and over again. it's cut and paste, right? everything that is against donald trump, he has the same response to. but i think people have seen through it. i think the midterm elections show this. americans are smarter than donald trump thinks they are. and they can see when something is true, despite all the misinformation. we are grateful for the media, which has been really honing in on that, and of course, democrats and the democratic party, people who are concerned our message wasn't getting through, but in fact, it was. that the president did some god

awful, illegal things, to try to destroy our democracy for his own prick uni airy as well as power gains, and we are going to continue to stop him at that. i think this special counsel is another mechanism to ensure that no one is above the law. >> so, before we go, i you're about to get sworn into a new congress that will be divided. what do you think that means for biden's agenda, and what do you think it means that the january six commission? >> sure. we know the january six commission we'll have a sunset with a new congress. there's no way we can see the republican conference allowing the january six commission committee to continue, and so we will probably see a reports coming out before the swearing in, before that committee is sunsets, when we are sworn in on the 118th.

it also means democrats are going to have to walk into gum like were so good at doing. we're going to have to try to push for those things that support american people. we have an amazing president in president biden, who has been able to bring republicans across the aisle in the senate to be able to support his agenda, and i'm sure he and our new leadership in the house will be able to find a couple of republicans to get things across the aisle on our side of the chamber as well. let's remember, in the house, we only need a majority to pass legislation. we're hopeful there are some republicans, moderate republicans, and purple districts that need to have some economic winds, that need to be able to demonstrate that they are working for the people. so, we will be looking across the aisle to try to find a couple of those who can help us get that's done. because remember, this is a slim majority. republicans barely got the

gavel, and you are always going to be watching to see what happens to ensure that we may get it back. i'm excited about the new leadership in the house. yes, this is a generational shift, but let's not be fooled. the individuals who are going to be running the democratic conference are seasoned veterans, even before they came to congress, with intellect, with experience, with charisma, with strategic and analytical thinking, and so, we are in good shape, which is not what i could say for the republican conference. >> i like that you described the new leadership of the democratic party. i think it's finally recognizing who the base is. democratic representative stacey plaskett of the u.s. virgin islands, thanks so much for joining me today. >> thank you. >> the former president has claimed to be a victim of the fbi and the doj for years. talk about gaslighting! this weekend is no difference. after a special counsel was appointed to see multiple

communications into trump, he claimed to be one of the quote, most honest and innocent people ever in our country. yeah. you heard that correctly. plus, it's becoming more and more clear the gop is distancing itself from trump. could that be trusted, or is trump here to say? more with velshi, when we come back. don't go anywhere. where. telling pliberty mutual customizes your car insurance so you only pay for what you need! (limu squawks) he's a natural. only pay for what you need. ♪liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty.♪ ♪ [christmas music] ♪ ♪ ♪ weathertech gift cards have the power to wow everyone on your holiday list. offering a variety of american made products. weathertech! nice! like floorliners... cargo liner... tablet holder... boot tray... cupfone... sink mat... pet feeding system... anti-fatigue comfortmat and more.

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investigation into him and his business practices. he has fought every step of the way against each one of the cases his name is connected to. he's accused the department of justice of corruption, he's advocated to defund the fbi, and he has repeatedly called investigations nothing but a witch hunt against him. on tuesday, and as beach declaring his candidacy for

presidency in 2024, trump went after the doj once again. take a listen. >> but as i have said before, the greatest threats to our civilization are not from abroad, but from within. none is greater than the weaponization of the justice system, the fbi, and the doj. we must conduct a top to bottom overhaul to clean out the festering rot and corruption of washington d.c.. [applause] >> thank you. and i'm a victim, i will tell you. i'm a victim. >> that low energy speech prompted the attorney general in less than 72 hours to appoint a federal prosecutor, and registered independent jack smith as special counsel sal to oversee the investigation that the classified documents that the president took to mar-a-lago after his presidency.

as well as the probe to obstruct the peaceful transfer of power on january 6th. take a listen. >> based on recent developments, including the former presidents announcement that he is a candidate for president in the next election, and the sitting president stating in tended to be a candidate as well, i have concluded that it is in the public interest to appoint a special counsel. such an appointment underscores the departments commitment, to both independents, and accountability, in particularly sensitive matters. >> just the last night, trump commented on the special counsel appointment again attacking the doj, and claiming his own innocence. >> i've proven to be one of the most honest and innocent people ever in our country. >> if you say it enough, maybe it will be true. for more on this i'm joined by philip rucker, deputy national editor for the washington post.

phil is also an msnbc political, analyst and author of multiple books about the former president including, i alone can fix it, jonnel trump's catastrophic final year. and a very stable genius, donald trump's testing of america. i have to share with you, the biggest write-ups that i saw was from the new york post one they talked about how he quoted himself as being a very stable genius, and it was just interesting to see the murdoch family actually deciding that they did not want to go down that route. but let's go back to the doj decision to appoint a special counsel, and why it was motivated in part to lessen the public perception that their investigation was politically motivated. that clearly hasn't happened. as trump is already using the special counsel to try to -- 2024 presidential bid. you shared this washington post article which titled trump seizes on special counsel as rallying cry for 2024. do you think that the doj made the right decision? did they have a choice, but to

go to this route? >> well, the attorney general concluded that this was the best decision for the department of justice, in part to ensure, to really convince the american public that this investigation is proceeding with integrity, and that politics are not interfering in. it merrick garland explained that the decision was not just because donald trump is going to be a candidate in 2024, but also because president biden indicated that he is making a decision leaning to make -- a special prosecutor the attorney general creates even more independents around the mar-a-lago classified documents investigation and the elements of january 6th and faith electors that involves trump. it's really to preserve that independence in the eyes of the public. >> and trump responded to the --

special counsel by calling at the words -- of justice in our country and calling on people to stand up and fight for our nation. what do you make of this reaction? i mean, i don't think it's very surprising that this is actually the route that he would wish, because he's trying to once again trying to gaslight the american people. but would you call about this idea of a fight. it was those code words that seem to get the proud boys to stand to attention on january 6th. should we be concerned about those words? >> certainly. i'm not at all surprised as you said that trump would handle it this way, and described this as a fight. but it's not a fights, i mean, the justice department is seeking facts and information and other trying to determine whether potential crimes may have been committed by the former president in keeping all of those classified documents that detail some of the nation's top secrets at mar-a-lago, at his private home, and members only club. instead of returning those to

the government. this is an important investigation, it's in the publics interest to get some of these answers and to figure out whether or not these crimes were committed. it is dangerous for the former president, or any political candidate to use words like fight, or sort of inspire some violence amongst supporters when you have a fairly normal law enforcement proceeding taking place. >> i want to follow up on, that because this is not the first time that the special counsel has been appointed to the trump investigation. what is going to be different from the mueller investigation, that you couldn't indict a sitting president to what we are seeing now with merrick garland appointing jack smith? >> for starters donald trump is not the sitting president anymore. he's a private citizen. he was a president, but you know, when you look at the mar-a-lago classified documents, those are potential crimes that would have been committed when trump left office, when he's no longer president, so that's one

difference. the other differences that jack smith, as it relates to these classified documents, is very directly investigating donald trump's conduct. his actions, his intents, his motives, what he was doing with those classified documents, and what he was instructing people around him, his aides, staff, it's a drug to do with those documents. in the mueller investigation, that was a much broader investigation. yes, it had to do with donald trump's actions and conduct, but it also had to do with russia's interference in the 2016 election, what the russians were doing at the direction of president, vladimir putin, and a whole -- and in moscow and all around the world who were connected to that election interference. it was a sprawling investigation of which trump was just one part. >> donald, trump you heard here straight from philip flicker, you are now a private citizen, and can be investigated. thank you so much for joining me now. believe it or, not it was not the multiple criminal

investigations into the former president that caused his party to finally distance themselves. turns, out all the took was an underwhelming republican performance in the midterms. it was the voters. but, is the gop really over donald trump, the establishment? we'll get to that, next, on velshi. t, next, o velshi t your business, you can make it even smarter. now ports can know where every piece of cargo is. and where it's going. (dock worker) right on time. (vo) robots can predict breakdowns and order their own replacement parts. (foreman) nice work. (vo) and retailers can get ahead of the fashion trend of the day with a new line tomorrow. with a verizon private 5g network, you can get more agility and security. giving you more control of your business. we call this enterprise intelligence. from the network america relies on. >> if you are a twice impeached

ex president who wants to get back in the game, a word of advice. don't announce your third bid for the presidency a week after your failed endorsements helped lead your party into a humiliating underperformance in the midterms. donald trump learned this the hard way. much has been made of thundery retreat of key conservative figures from his orbit. trump has been ditched or discussed this week, however you want to qualify it's, from major donors, to his favorite conservative media stalwarts, to his former ride or die

cabinet secretary, mike pompeo, who said quote, he is tired of losing under trump to his own daughter, ivanka, who skipped his big announcement and said she is taking a break from politics. that statement appears to be trickling down to voters to. a new economist and new gulf poll taken after election day shows that republican voters would prefer florida governor ron desantis in 2020. for now, i'm off enough to remember the time republicans came back to trump side after he set the capital building with rioters, which is not a laughing matter. it's time he came back of trump about bragging women by their genitalia. so, consider we not fully convinced that conservatives are done with donald trump. but even if they are. he's the hate and gaslighting and name-calling that trump brought to the mainstream here to say? joining me now is jelani cobb, a staff writer for the new yorker, and msnbc political trick and the dean of columbia

journalism school. his latest new yorker piece entitled, the enduring power of trumpism, no matter what becomes of donald trump, the forces of intolerance, racism, and belligerence be hardest in american politics will persist. also with me is terrace at meyer, senior adviser at the lincoln project and host of the organizations streaming show, the breakdown. he's also a former republican communications director, but left the party in november of 2020, after the election. trumpism will always have an audience ready to buy. and to you think what he has brought to the republican party in the mainstream, do you think it's going to say? your title says it is, but if it's him, is he still a stand bearer? >> it's really not pertinent, in some ways. whether or not he is the standard bearer. the important thing to recall is just asked within his career as a builder, in construction, he was better for brandt than

he was for actually building things. and so the elements that we've seen that we created the havoc that we've witnessed in the past six years in american politics weren't original trump. he did a tremendous increase in the branding of those things and, coalescing those things into kind of singular and to tee in a similar way that joseph mccarthy did. red baiting pre-seated joseph mccarthy, and continued that for mccarthy's political device. so, those elements and the fact he is marketing them in objecting them into the mainstream, that he has demonstrated just how many norms you can shatter, that you can attempt to overthrow a -- the government, effectively, and still be considered a political figure in good standing within the elements of the republican party, all of those things pointed to a much deeper set of problems then the

political lifespan of any single individual. donald trump or anyone else. >> yeah. tara, you left the republican party in 2020 because of its embrace of trumpism. do you think that folks in the party are now and enemy of trump, or are they doing for the same principle reasons you think or, something different? >> well, it's clearly not based on principle, because donald trump did plenty prior to his election denial lie and the insurrection. he never should've been elected in the first place. if republicans were operating on principle, they would've rejected him back in 2016. instead, you have too many republicans running vanity candidacies that's put the foot in the primary, that allowed the 30% of hard-core primary voters to vote donald trump in, and they were like oh my goodness, what are we going to do now? okay, we can manage him. well, many of us knew we were never going to be managed a malignant narcissist like donald trump, who is not only ignorance, but willfully

ignorant of how our constitutional system works. frankly, he despises it, just based on the way he governed. republicans sat there and enabled this for all these years. but now, now they are percolating, because they got their butts handed to them in elections they should have won. unfortunately, it's the cynical aspect of elected offices where they are single seekers of reelection, and political actors usually do not respond until they lose electorally. i've warned about this. i think that's a shame. it wasn't anything else, and two jelani's point, all the things that trumpism, which i think has outgrown donald trump, and that is the danger. all of the malignancies of trumpism, which in my video where i left the republican party in 2020, i talked about that. that is what concerns me, because now you have millions of people who believe this. that takes a generation to extricate. how do we change that? >> it's interesting you say that, because i grew up in california under pete wilson,

and the chilling effect he had on the community of immigrants and people of color is still being felt. i think you are absolutely right. so, jelani, i want to ask you a question based on what you brought. four critical observers, it has been apparent that's everything trump offered the public came slathered in snake oil. that is either a statements about the willful blindness of the american public, or a barometer of how many americans view those dangerous liabilities as assets. now, my question to you is the snake oil you speak of, it's only from donald trump, or just the snake oil also stick to different candidates? i'm thinking of florida governor ron desantis. he is the one that comes to mind. >> sure. i mean, so irrespective of what donald trump's political future is, he's established a playbook. we see what the parameters of dishonesty, and just, the incredible vendetta t that characterized trump's behavior

with lie after lie after lie after lie, but for a politician who lives half as much, were three quarters as much, they look honest in comparison. it really is, ron desantis or someone else, the problem is the parameters and the tolerance for the kinds of anti-democratic behaviors that were mainstreamed and normalized during the trump administration. >> i think that's right, and i think it's incredibly dangerous. tara, i want to ask you, is ron desantis trump two point oh? a lot of people are asking this question. one of the things that has been under reported is the fact that ron desantis, yes, he won, but he highly gerrymandered the state of florida. oftentimes, people say, well, heat was a statewide office. but gerrymandering has the impact of chilling potential voters for the opposite side of going out and voting. there's no way he could gerrymander himself across 50 states. what would be his pathway? >> well, he also can't

gerrymander himself political charisma or retail politics either. [laughter] >> you said it! >> yes i did. all say. it's because people in the republican party, the gentry republicans, think they have now found their savior in iran desantis because of his performance in florida, because he has governed. they think, okay, he is trump without all the ethical, personal, of not business. well obviously, they haven't seen ron desantis outside of florida. he was a see congressman no one really knew before donald trump propped him up. you see that ron desantis has begun to fashion himself in the image and likeness of trump, even to the way, his mannerisms and everything. it is so transparent. when he gets on the ground in new hampshire and iowa, people are going to see this guy doesn't have it. donald trump's political gravity defying tactics to not apply to everyone else. so, it's going to be a rude awakening for folks who think

ron desantis is the republican savior. also, you need to look at the way he governs in florida. this is a guy who created basically an election to stop a force to go out and intimidate voters after felons were allowed to vote again, but there were a couple of loopholes, and he sends out this election integrity force and arrest people, and sends a chilling effect of voter intimidation and suppression among a litany of other things, from the cultural's, going after disney, really, republicans want to scale that's up now. i think we have another thing coming on a national level. yes, gerrymandering was an issue. it was also an issue in new york for the democrats. it's something i think is part of our electoral reforms we need to look at moving forward, to help open up the system that seems to be a danger to the system, that encourages more extreme candidates in some places. that's a whole different set of issues, talking about gerrymandering and primary reform. but it's something that should be on the table.

>> i'm so glad you actually mentioned it, because i do think most americans, regardless of party, are tired of these nail-biter, is and we don't need to. we can modernize our election systems are in ways australia has done, in ways new zealand has done, there's plenty of democracies we can learn from. i'm glad you highlighted it. i'm also glad you are highlighting the fashioning of desantis against donald trump. it wasn't until you mentioned that i look closely in the pictures, i realized it may also be the wavy stirring. jelani cobb and tara setmayer, thank you so much for joining. a quick programming. that -- actually makes in the pyrenees on the newest documentary film, called split screen from msnbc. comedian trevor noah and director -- explore how the united states got to this moment of extreme polarization and rampant disinformation. split screen airs tomorrow night at 10 pm eastern, right here on msnbc. you can also find it on peacock. now, there is a wedding this weekend at the white house featuring none other than the presidents granddaughter.

we'll take a look at the history of white house weddings next on velshi. stay tuned. ayst tuned grandmom! walgreens find rx coverage is here to make medicare easy... even easier than those dances your grandkids love doing with you. ok, i got it. (laughs) start medicare shopping today with walgreens find rx coverage. ♪♪ plus, find low-cost copays. when you need to talk medicare. walgreens, is here. ♪♪ ♪♪ walgreens.

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in a scent free, gentle mist. psst! psst! flonase. all good. >> naomi by then, thought or if the president's son, hunter biden, it's getting married this weekend. guess? where the white house. she and her fiancée will join an exclusive group of couples who have said i do at the white house. only 18 couples have had that honor and privilege in all of american history. nbc news chief white house correspondent kristen welker has the story. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> instead of saying hail to the chiefs -- ♪ ♪ ♪ >> they are saying, here comes the bride, at the white house this weekend. 28-year-old naomi biden, the first granddaughter of the president and first lady, is about to say i due to her longtime love, 25 year old peter neil.

the bride to be revealing on social media the venue will be the south on. michael larosa is the former press secretary to first lady jill biden. >> it's going to be a wedding infused with a lot of love, a lot of laughter and traditions. >> white house weddings are rare. only 18 in u.s. history. the last time an immediate member of the first family got married here was more than 50 years ago. >> bother both smiling, very happy. >> when trisha nixon cox, daughter of former president richard nixon, said i do in the rose garden. but it was alice roosevelt -- wedding in 1906 considered the greatest in white house history. attended by more than 1000 people and dominating headlines for weeks, decades later, in 1967, another unforgettable affair, when linda heard johnson rob, daughter of lbj, tied the knot in the east room. wowing her 500 guests and her satin gown, her groom in his

military uniform. >> they say that home weddings are the nicest, and if houma happens to be the white house, so much the better. >> in 2008, today's janet bush hegar, who married her love, henry hagar, in texas, celebrated with a white house reception a month later. but you don't have to be related to the first family to get married here. about a decade ago, pete sousa, the official obama white house photographer, held his nuptials in the rose garden. anita mcbride, the former chief of staff to former first lady laura bush, says a white house wedding it's always an event to remember. >> no matter how you may feel about a particular administration, you can't help but be happy for a couple who is starting their lives and to have its happen at the white house, that's a very unique and special part of history. >> normalcy and a little bit of joy coming out of the administration.

it's nice to have the wedding. our thanks to nbc's christian welker for that reports. up next, revisionist history, how one republican-led state is surpassing the truth by erasing it's from textbooks. you are watching velshi on nbc. we will be right back. we will be right back. and the day-dreamer... the dribbler's getting hands-on practice with her chase first banking debit card... the drummer's making savings simple with a tap... ...round of applause. and this dreamer, well, she's still learning how to budget, so mom keeps her alerts on full volume. hey! what? it's true! and that's all thanks to chase first banking. freedom for kids. control for parents. one bank with tools for both, all with no monthly service fee. chase. make more of what's yours. ♪3, 4♪ ♪ all with no monthly service fee. ♪hey♪ ♪ ♪are you ready for me♪ ♪are you ready♪ ♪are you ready♪ ever wonder why they call it the american dream... and not the american goal?

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we're not counting that. only pay for what you need. ♪liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty.♪ >> virginia's department of education has drawn up new changes to the state's history and social finances curriculum. reframing the way race and racism are taught. while revisions to school standards take place every seven years by law, this iteration has become highly controversial and sadly, political. this past summer, republican governor glenn youngkin appointed five people to the board of education. they now make up the majority of the board. last week, the board rejected a 400-page draft curriculum that had been in the works for months. get this, instead, they submitted a 52-page version

that significantly diverged from the original work. the new submission drew intense criticism from educators, democratic legislators, and some parents who say gravely minimizes lessons on communities of color in american history. according to washington post review of the documents quote, but new proposal version generally places less emphasis on the perspectives of marginalized peoples. it removes suggested discussions of racism and it's lingering effects, and instead promotes the workings of the free market with limited government intervention. if these standards are approved, kindergartners won't be learning about indigenous peoples day, juneteenth, or even martin luther king junior day. there is no mention of teaching fifth grade students about racism at all. in south carolina, berkeley county school district is doing an overhaul of its own. on tuesday, a group of new board members were sworn in, six of whom were endorsed by the conservative atkins group, moms for liberty.

within hours, the board voted to fire the district's first black superintendent and the district lawyer to bent race series, and instead of committing to evaluate books and materials for classrooms and libraries. according to nbc, people in the audience, people in the community gasped and started to shout in disagreements. right after the break, i will be talking about this alarming trend in education, with eddie gold, the chair of the department of african american studies at princeton university, and the coal hannah jones, creator of the landmark 1916 -- 16 19 project. we'll be right back. ight back. etwork. so you can do more than connect your business, you can make it even smarter. now ports can know where every piece of cargo is. and where it's going. (dock worker) right on time. (vo) robots can predict breakdowns and order their own replacement parts. (foreman) nice work. (vo) and retailers can get ahead of the fashion trend of the day with a new line tomorrow. with a verizon private 5g network, you can get more agility and security. giving you more control of your business. we call this enterprise intelligence.

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collins junior, professor at your loved department of african american studies at princeton university, and nikole hannah-jones, founder of the center for journalism and democracy at howard university, and creator of the landmark 1619 project. author of the accompanying book, the 1619 project. the coal, the crux of your 1619 project aims to reframe the country's history by placing the consequences of slavery and the contributions of black americans at the center of our

national narrative. exactly what it seems that virginia is trying to block. your book has been extensively challenged. it's surprising this is happening at the state level? >> no. absolutely not. we know glenn youngkin ran his campaign on this idea of teaching a more sanitized history that would protect the feelings of white children. we know that history and how it's taught has always been contested in the united states. that's so much of what we call history is really memory. it is selectively putting certain things into curricula that gives us a certain concept of what america is. but everything in happens in history happened. it really is about, what do we teach? what do we teach about what happens? what do we put in? but do we leave? out and this new curriculum is occurring in virginia was crafted largely by conservative groups, including the florida institute. frankly, what they are leaving out and what they're living in, what version of america they want school children learn.

>> this whole idea of the free market and all of that is interesting, the way the trying to frame it. eddie, groups like -- liberty are gaining steam nationwide. you're seeing a map on the stream with the different states counties that have a moms for liberty chapter. it shows the book banning and curriculum restrictions are not happening organically. this is very much a coordinated effort. can you tell us more about this? >> sure. you have moms for liberty doing what they're doing. we have other organizations in places like texas and south carolina and virginia. you also have the 1776 packed, that is funding. them that kind of consulting class in the republican party trying to forward his broader vision of the country. we need to understand, i think it's very clear, that the kinds of stories we tell matter in terms of the kinds of people we become. who we take ourselves to be. and what we choose to leave out of our stories oftentimes reveals the limits of our conceptions of justice. who and what we leave out of our stories, exposes the limits of our idea of justice. so, what we're seeing is a narrowing of character, and

attempt to produce a certain vision of the country, in order to produce certain people. we saw this happen at the end of radical reconstruction, with the dunning school in columbia university, telling a particular story about reconstruction that characterized black folk in a particular sort of why that shaped the ence of generations of white americans! so, we're seeing it happen again. i put money behind it. >> big money behind that. it's interesting because you are not seeing only book banning, on abortion, anti-immigration, all of it is seeming to come from a very organized group you, absolutely right, seems organic but it's not. with a lot of money behind it. eddie, i want to follow up. a judge blocked governor desantis's stop woke. he wrote, he was a bright cold day in april, and the clocks were striking 13, and the powers in charge of florida's public university system have declared the state unfettered authority to muzzle its professors in the name of freedom. now, that first line is a quote

from 1984 by george orwell. george walker was appointed to the federal bench by former president barack obama, that's true, but is this a model? is it through the courts we can stop this type of trying to dominate the school books that basically erases so many americans from storytelling, and how we got here? >> well, the courts are one path. and only one path. we have to organize on a local level. we have to understand that, as baldwin says, and i'm paraphrasing him, those allied with power are dangerous. it's a kind of combination for evil, in some ways. so, the court is one path, but we also ought to mobilize and organized at the local level to understand what these folks are doing in terms of schoolbooks. we've seen this strategy before. it was a strategy that led to the -- revolution. we know how it works. we don't only have to challenge it in the courts, we need to challenge in the streets as well. >> so, something, nicole, we also find very much is they use

critical race theory as coates watching, as code words, as a dog whistle. can you explain to our audience what that actually means, and it's not being taught in schools? >> so, one, the fact that so many americans now know the term critical race siri is its ninth of a highly propaganda campaign by conservatives, often aided and abetted bike journalists, but critical race theory is a highly sophisticated legal analysis of structural racism. it really speaks to answer why some 60 years after we've vanished discrimination by law, why do we still have so much inequality, particularly amongst black americans and other marginalized groups? no, most schools are not teaching. this. the problem with how progressives trying to combat this campaign was to run away from it. it actually would have been a good thing, if we were getting a sophisticated analysis of

structural inequality in america in our classrooms. it is not that evil we need to run away from. instead, i think we need to understand from these campaigns is what conservatives gets, at sometimes, i think people who want a more accurate rendering of history don't, is that narrative draws policy. what they are trying to do is shape than they would save america that really justifies power, that justifies but racial and economic hierarchies we already have, that gives us this vision of america. that doesn't lead us to question, why do we have the unequal society that we have? i wish that people on the other side would get more organized, because professor gold is. right. it's not winning these battles in the courts. the battles will be one at the school board level, when people who actually want a more accurate teaching of history show up just as intensely as the ones who are opposing this. >> i don't think it's by accident. this is a question i'm going to briefly ask. it's not by accident this is happening right now in america,

where when you look at the classrooms, it's a majority minority. it's not by accident we are not trying to actually educate our systems and ourselves about these systemic structures to get out of making sure we are closer to that's more perfect union. so, i will ask first, the professor, and then you, nikole, what can teachers do? to make sure our children right now are getting the proper education, despite these incendiary movements we are seeing? >> well, we're going to have to be courageous and teach the truth. they're going to have to engage in what the lights literary critic -- called polarizing readings. we're going to have to put thomas jefferson in conversation with david walker. they're going to have to put the founders in conversation with frederick douglass. we're going to have to read across the vast, vast diversity of america. remember, there's immigration, immigration debates, voting rights debates, that attack on january 6th, the attack on crt, quote unquote.

all of this is related. all of this is related to the general panic that white folks feel like they're losing their footing, their grip on the country. they want a nation that is fundamentally, a white nation, and the rest of us should simply still not up and be grateful. >> nicole, one book folks should read besides yours? quickly? >> oh, god, how could i even answer that question? [laughter] i mean, black reconstruction. if you want to understand what we're seeing in america right now, there is a great essay, i teach it to my students. it's a final essay in the book called the propaganda of history. those words that the boys writes about the way history lies agreed upon -- >> wonderful, -- >> it's what we're seeing today. >> thank you so much. eddie gould and -- i wanted to know you are breathing. apologies for cutting you off, but we'll have you back on. thank you so much for watching. now, you can watch velshi every