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long time. that wraps up for me everybody, i will be back in the chair tomorrow at 2 pm eastern. someone starts right now. >> greetings! you are watching simone. now, we are talking about the surprise special counsel announcement that is sparking major debate. why attorney general merrick garland says that he named the special counsel to investigate former donald trump. what does it mean for the investigation timetable, and i specifically want to know, it is a special counsel really necessary to hold him accountable for his actions? i will begin tonight with our legal experts, and the transformation on capitol hill, ushering in the next generation of house leaders. we are talking about speaker nancy pelosi's comparable legacy, and the congress members waiting to take over the top post, the congress is coming, as current democratic leaders are stepping down. plus, what republicans regaining house control really means for the democrats agenda and how democrats are preparing for the wave of investigations

that republican lawmakers are vowing to unleash. congresswoman debbie dingell is here and she is going to weigh in on that. and what democrats want to accomplish. i have something to say. ♪ ♪ ♪ here we go again, y'all. another twist in the ongoing effort to hold the former president, donald trump, accountable for a lawful, and egregious actions. it is exhausting, isn't it? let me get you caught up. attorney general merrick garland announced yesterday that he is appointed the special counsel to oversee two of the investigations involving donald trump. his role on january 6th, and his handling of classified documents. but the move is leaving a lot of people to ask, why? the january 6th attack was 682 days ago, and then all of that

time, the man who encouraged his followers to storm the capital has not yet been held accountable. we know government documents were found at his mar-a-lago resort home that do not belong to him. the documents belong to the federal government. then this leak, but when trump knows that he is running for president in 2024. his third presidential run. so why do we need a special counsel to take all of this up? well, especially when the justice department has already been working to put the pieces together. questions i had, questions i know you all had, here is the attorney general's explanation. >> based on recent developments, including the former presidents announcement that he is a candidate for president in the next election, and the sitting president stated intention to be a candidate as well, i have concluded that it is in the public interest to appoint a special counsel. such an appointment underscores the departments commitment to both independents and accountability, and

particularly sensitive matters. it also allows prosecutors and agents to continue their work and to make decisions indisputably guided only by the facts and the law. >> okay, we are going to talk about this. garland's choice for the special counsel is no joke. jack smith has recently been the chief prosecutor, investigating war crimes, and he is the former chief of the justice department's public integrity section. and no surprise here, after the appointment of this registered independent and special counsel, donald trump again criticizing him as quote unquote radical, and super left. it is a, why it is not true, trump is also urging republicans to fight his appointment and vowing not to partake in the investigation. i want to bring in legal experts now to make it all makes sense. paul butler is back with. us he is an msnbc legal analyst. a former federal prosecutor and a professor at georgetown school of law. and green kirschner is also

here. he is an innocent bc legal analyst as well and also a former federal prosecutor. it was very important to us that we had two former federal prosecutors here to break this down. because you all can answer some of the questions that people in my group chats have about this very important day. i think it is really almost impossible to name all of donald trump's misdeeds at this point. but it doesn't mean that the department of justice has handled the former president with kid gloves. they have been extremely meticulous, others frankly would have been indicted by now for doing far less. so, tell me why, why do we need this? i understand what mayor garland did, i want to hear what you have to say. >> garland was concerned about the appearance of justice with both biden and trump running for president. it might look like the biden administration is trying to take down his political point and that would be a bad look for the justice department. i don't think that the special counsel is going to solve that problem, simone.

first of all, the attorney general will still make the final decision about whether to prosecute. and obviously, there was a special counsel with the russian investigation, but that didn't stop trump from calling it a witch hunt. >> i mean, i have to agree with you, i do not think -- even now, the special counsel has been appointed, and donald trump is still making it something that it is not. neal katyal had something to say about this last night, he is the former acting u.s. solicitor general, and this is what he said on msnbc, listen to this. >> i disagree pretty strongly with the decision by attorney general garland to seek a special counsel. i do not think it is needed under the regulations and i think that it risks delaying this investigation, needlessly. >> now, nil county all, he literally drafted the special counsel regulations 20 years ago. and now he is saying that he doesn't necessarily think it is needed. now, do you think that he is correct here? >> you know, simone, i think

that we could do an autopsy on merrick garland's decision, and i actually think that there are good arguments on both sides for the special counsel. but we now have a decision. so i am going to look for the silver lining behind the big dark cloud that is hanging over all things trump, and frankly department of justice. look at who he appointed. he appointed a gentleman named jack smith. now, for openers, everybody that is a war crimes prosecutor at this has shown a special kind of determination to write some of our world's most egregious wrongs. but this is what i love about jack smith's resume. so, he was a longtime federal prosecutor, and he was out of the public integrity section under the department of justice. under his tenure there, you know who his office prosecuted? these are prosecutions that he authorized. representative rick rienzi, a republican from arizona, senator john edwards, a democrat from north carolina, governor bob mcdonald, a republican from virginia, senator bob menendez, a

democrat from new york. we see a pattern emerge in. republicans and democrats alike. and you know what? his unit, they won some of those cases, and lost some of those cases. but what can we tease out of the way that he operates? he is willing to go after people left, right, and center. he is willing to take challenging cases, cases that are not short winners, and cases that are short to be sort of politically fought. he is going to get criticize. do you know what, simone? give me a prosecutor who's brave enough to do that, and loses some cases, that is who i want on my team. >> yeah. jack smith seems overly qualified. like, he is the right person for this job. i guess, i was talking to people, and also want to get into what general, former attorney general william barr said two -- on pbs news hour. we will weigh in on that in just a second. but i guess that there are people out there who, i was talking to myself, they see

everything that has happened. and they are wondering, is this just another hoop that the justice department is setting up? like, why is this not necessarily taking so long, but given all of the evidence, it is do or die. like, make-or-break. either you charge him or you don't. do you understand the sentiment that is out there from people? >> i do, but merrick garland did authorize that little search warrant at mar-a-lago on historic execution of the search warrant at a former presidents house. my buddy, jack smith, he is an old school, hard-core prosecutor. there is a stark contrast with robert mueller, who came out of semi retirement, and didn't seem like the most energetic or aggressive guy. a cool story about jack smith, when he was a prosecutor in new york, a victim and a domestic violence case wanted to drop charges, and jack smith spent the entire weekend camped out in the hallway of her apartment until she agreed to talk to

him. and ultimately, he brought the case. >> jack smith seems like a serious player here, paul. i mean, i will let you and glenn pellet. >> he wouldn't even -- >> i mean, look, i think it is the right person for this job. i think that there are folks just wondering, is this necessary? but i think that you all have made the case for a while, in particular, it could be. i want to get you guys to weigh in on this. former attorney general william barr, he talked about the justice department and the investigation into government documents that were found at mar-a-lago. he told ppss margaret hoover, not on pbs news hour, but on the margaret hoover show, this is what he said about his former boss, donald trump. >> if the department of justice can show that these were indeed very sensitive documents, which i think that they probably were, and also show that the president was involved in misleading the department, this leaving the government, and

playing games, after he received the subpoena from the documents, those are serious charges. >> that's a serious crime? >> i personally think that they probably have the basis for legitimately indicting the -- >> again, while all of this is unfolding just days ago donald trump did announce that he is running for president again. set the record straight, is there anything that would give donald trump the immunity from a conviction? >> nothing, zero, because we do have this tradition that the doj will not do anything on the law enforcement front. within 60 days of an election. to make it look like maybe they are being partisan, or they are interfering in the upcoming election. but there is no rule, no tradition dot says that if you announced two years out that the doj has to give you a two-year election holiday from investigating your crimes. so no, there is nothing stopping now jack smith heading up the ongoing investigations

from seeking indictments of donald trump. let me just add, i love that paul brought up the search warrant that merrick garland authorized. that was historic, and it took him a year. do we think that we have seen enough time and accountability of trump and company under the tenure of merrick garland? no. merrick garland has proven to be too much judge and not enough prosecutor. i am not happy with the case. with the pace that he has set. it can only quicken, in my opinion, under the leadership of jack smith. >> all, right well you know what? paul butler, glenn kirschner, you are all the right former prosecutors to talk about this with today. thank you for kicking us off. coming up next, i don't have another former prosecutor, but i have former california senator barrasso, and they are talking about the capitol hill, speaker pelosi stops the site for the next generation of leadership. but first, our best, my colleague richard louis is here for today's other top news stories.

hi. >> back at you, simone. these are the stories we are watching for you right now. western new york state is digging itself out from record-breaking snow. parts of erie county saw 60 inches and a foot and a half more still possible. this is what the buffalo bills tweeted from their stadium, take a look at this, so much snow. their game tomorrow was forced to move to detroit. all right, ticketmaster apologized to taylor swift and fans after a counseled public sailed tickets to the stars upcoming tour. this comes after the site buckled under overwhelming demand this week. it prevented many from being able to buy tickets. new york times reports the justice department opening, and an antitrust investigation into taking master's parent company, live nation, and there are two people with knowledge of that matter. and president biden's granddaughter naomi may read her husband at the white house. the press was not invited. it is only, by the way, the 19th wedding ever to happen at the white house. more simone after this break.

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and a certain ex president who add them all on. she had no problem standing up to belize, including donald trump. she went toe to toe with him many, many times. i could go on about speaker pelosi. but i would rather talk to someone who knows her very well, i am happy to be joined right now by former democratic senator barbara boxer of california. thank you so much for being here. you know, speaker pelosi has quite the list of accomplishments. we could go down the list of her democratic leadership. i'm talking about health care, to major economic bill as bipartisan infrastructure bill, a landmark climate bill, that is just to name a few. you were right there with her for a number of these fights. how was she able to get so much done and keep a very interesting caucus together? >> interesting is a great word. some might say difficult. and as you know, the democratic party goes from left to center, and a little bit right center, and a little bit left of left, so it does take an amazing

skill. this is what i think. i think it is important for folks to know that i got elected to the house in 1982, took my seat in 1983, and then nancy pelosi joined me there in 1987. and we represented the same area. i represented part of san francisco, and suburbs to the north, and she represented the remainder of san francisco. and you can imagine how we bonded over that. and i think her skills came from a long time ago in our family where you had a lot of brothers, her dad was in politics, and she learned by watching how to get things done, how to go from behind the scenes to in front of the scenes. and then she became the head of the california democratic party. and i came up through the environmental movement, the peace movement, she came up through the california democratic party. so we did not know each other

that we'll. but imagine having all of these folks that we represented just getting ill from aids. so, we came very close. and i have a picture to show you. so, can you see this? >> yes i can. >> so that is nancy pelosi and me addressed as the andrew sisters. we did that for a charity. we were very, very close. there were only 12 democratic women when nancy pelosi arrived. so, yeah. the bind run deep. and i knew, she could go straight to the top, because she could walk in everybody's shoes, and that is what it takes to be a good leader. >> that is the hallmark of great leadership. you know, i had the opportunity to see you earlier this week in l.a.. it struck me that when i -- and speaker pelosi talks about this -- when she came to congress there

are only 12 democrats who are women. you are right there in there. now there are 90. when you both join congress, i would argue that there wasn't a clear pipeline to democratic leadership, but now, speaker pelosi has lead by example, including along with congressman jim clyburn. they all decided to step aside, but not away. there are many people out there talking about how this is paving the way for this next generation of leadership. i am wondering your thoughts on this. because oftentimes, the democratic party, we have had spirited conversations about the lack of a pipeline to leadership, and to me this just strikes me as leadership, you know, taking, leading by example, and opening up the door, but not just leaving folks out to pasture. >> you are so right. and i want to say, a lot of people ask, what is the difference when women are in charge, and men are in charge? not all women are good, i will not go through the list of those, we don't think are

particularly good. , so women have a certain style. and i think that what we are seeing with nancy pelosi is avoiding the fights that come usually win a leadership spot becomes open, working beforehand to ease the transition, and turning it over to this beautiful team that reflects the diversity and beauty of our nation. and i give her a tremendous amount of credit for that. and that is really amazing, because it is hard to go from speaker of the house and then a house member. but she will be treated with tremendous respect, and i think that if there -- he is going to have her in most of the meetings. and this majority that the republicans have got is so slim that if somebody just -- they may not have the votes. so you need somebody in there who knows how to go about it, when. you know? >> i know all too well.

former california senator, thank you so much for your time for being here, i appreciate you. >> thank you so much, simone. >> all right, we talked about this, this january we are going to see a transformation taking place among the democratic members of the house. 36 brand-new members will join the ranks, including the first gen z number, the first gay immigrant member, the first black woman member representing pennsylvania. can you believe that is still a first? and the first woman member from vermont. can you believe this? we are also sad to see a shake up in house leadership in the way the decisions, as we just discussed by speaker pelosi and majority leader hoyer to get a new generation of leaders to take over. how will all of this effect democrats agenda and the future as a whole? i cannot think of anybody better to talk to the democratic congresswoman debbie dingell of michigan joining me now. welcome to you, congresswoman. i want to begin with the leadership change. speaker pelosi has endorsed democratic caucus chair,

congressman hakeem jeffries as minority leader for assistance speaker, minority whip, and caucus vice chair pete aguilar for democratic caucus chair. you yourself have joined a growing field of candidates or vice chair of the caucus. can you just share what the cases that you are going to make your colleagues as to why you should fill that position and not one of your opponents? >> well, thanks simone, it is good to be with you this afternoon. it is easy for me to make this case for three reasons, one i think majorities are won and lost in the middle part of america. as you know, i was in union halls, i was in senior centers, i was in many different places every single weekend. i knew that donald trump was gaining support. i knew that he understood the anxiety of union workers, and i do not think that he really intended to do something about it, he did understand anxieties.

that is one of the reasons he won. and i think that we need to have this part of leadership that comes from middle america. we won in michigan, i am very proud of the fact that we won. i had many of the state legislative seats that brought us the majority within our district. and i know what it is like to be somebody that, you know, i am a car girl, i am actually the person that brought the environmentalists and the unions together to strike a deal that got announced on the white house a year ago on electric vehicles. >> you know congresswoman, i did have someone in the house tell me that the race, this particular race is going to be the race to watch in the house because it will in fact be very competitive, and a little birdie told me that you have a competitive claim to stake. so we will be watching this. i want to get you to weigh in on -- we are coming up on the final weeks of what is a democratic majority in the house, what are some of the party's priorities

for this session? i have to imagine you have all had conversations, especially over the last week. >> i think that there have been some, probably not enough, because it was a very emotional intense week last week as we did do this passing of the mail -- it is important to remember that we will have the wisdom of these current leaders. and the question is, what kinds of things can be done as we get that budget. and i certainly hope that we are not going to play games at the end of it, not fund the government forever, it is not what this country needs right now. i think that they're -- go ahead. >> no, well, a lot of those lines, i mean i wanted to know, do you know any of the plans for the senate backed marriage quality bill that is expected to pass? the house, i am sure, has the votes to pass it. but when do you think it will be put on the floor? >> we have already done it once, this is a different bill, but it will have the votes to pass and it will be a high priority.

because i think the reality of roe, the reversal of roe, and the reality of these elections, with republican senators in the senate voted -- the choice was on the ballot in many places. it was not the only issue but it was on the ballot. they do not want to have to deal with this issue going into 2024. it will hurt them. i do believe that bill will be passed. >> all right, michigan congresswoman, congratulations on your reelection and thank you so much for being here. >> good to see you, take care, be safe. >> republicans, they are counting down the days until the snatch away the house speaker's gavel from the current speaker, nancy pelosi. and my fantastic political panel is just as eager to talk about what this maga majority, even a slim one, means for all of us. let's stay with us. t's stay with us three generations, who all bank differently with chase. leon's saving up for his first set of wheels...

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house races are still uncalled. but, let's be clear, republicans will have a slim majority in the house of representatives or they have promised investigations into everything. here is a little preview. >> i want to be clear. this is an investigation of joe biden. and that is where the committee will focus in the next congress. >> this is a focus on the judiciary committee, the political nature of the justice department. >> we can impeach secretary mayorkas.

we can impeach merrick garland. >> i am introducing articles of impeachment against joe biden on monday. >> yes, because that is everything that, you know, republicans ran on in the 2018, and 2022 midterm elections. the truth is, all of the people you just heard from, they may actually face some opposition within their own party. if elected speaker, current minority leader kevin mccarthy, he will be tasked with corral-ing a hodgepodge of conspiracy theorists, moderates, some insurrectionists, and some institutionalist's behind one cohesive republican agenda. a monumental feat. even if republicans won all of the remaining house races, kevin mccarthy would still have room for only six republican defectors. does he have the stuff? joining me now to discuss it is our political panel, eugene scott, a national political reporter for the washington post, cristobal alex is a political analyst, and a former senior adviser for the biden

campaign, and sofia nelson is a former house republican majority staff committee counsel, and a contributing editor to -- welcome to you all. sophia, as a resident republican, i will start with you. look, republicans, you just saw the clip. they have been promising these wide ranging investigations into the biden administration. you saw marjorie taylor greene even promising impeachment. there is no evidence of high crimes and misdemeanors, by the way. but i think that not every republican is on board. members like nancy mace, and new members elect have said that they actually want to focus on their constituents rather than retributions. so, do you think that the rush, to what do the people, they own the libs will fracture the republican caucus? >> here would be my advice to someone who is a former republican who walked away from the party during the trump years. here is what i would say. i worked in the house when the

speaker right after the contract with -- and they were very agenda focused on policy, welfare reform, et cetera, et cetera. it is a mistake, let me underscore mistake, and as you rightly said in the intro, kevin mccarthy has his work cut out for him correctly and all of those different factions, and keeping them together. and the worst thing the republicans can do going into 2024 is start a bunch of right-wing qanon crazy investigations about hunter biden's lad top, and joe biden's enriching his family, and i guess they forgot about the last guy, we but my point is that america did not elect them for that. this was the finished margin of the house that you have seen in a while since the last majority. people want stuff done. i hang out with a lot of republicans, obviously, and i talk to them, and they are not happy about this. they do not want any more investigations. they want a better tax code. they want reforms on different things that help move the economy, get rid of inflation,

and that is what people want to talk about, not investigations. >> that is what they want to talk about, that is not what we are seeing thus far. but you know what? it remains to be seen, january still a little ways away. i want to talk about the shakeups and democratic leadership, as we have discussed, congressman hakeem jeffries as a favorite to replace speaker pelosi as the new leader of the democrats in the house. if elected, how can jeffries, he will be the first black person to represent either party of leadership in the house of representatives. unlike speaker pelosi, republicans have not invested 20 years of attacks on two hakeem jeffries. i think it is something to watch. how do you think this new dynamic is going to affect how republicans view, work with, attack democrats within their own caucus, and how do you think the dynamic of hakeem jeffries it's going to play out here. i have heard a lot of speculation about a, he is young he is new, he has not been in congress for a while.

and i am like, would we be saying the same thing if he was a 42 year old white man? i don't know. >> i think you're exactly right, you nailed it. one of the unfortunate things in the cycle is that we are going to see similar attacks to what we saw on president obama in 2008 when he was coming in. but i think that democrats are going to be better able to push back on those, obviously hakeem jeffries has a lot of experience. but he is very different than speaker pelosi. speaker pelosi might be the best speaker that we have ever seen in congress. hakeem jeffries, coming in, unlike speaker pelosi, he does not come from a political dynasty. he comes from the black power center of brooklyn. and he brings all of that with him, which i think is a huge plus. not too many people can be on the four of the house and -- and he does it so well, right? so, to your previous question, i do think that we are going to see republicans overreaching on these investigations and losing side of what the american people want. we've seen incredible progress the last couple of years, the most progress since algae -- so i think that they want more progress, the american people,

and they are going to focus on these bs investigations, and i think that jeffries, or whoever the leader is is going to be able to push back on that. >> i mean, it is an interesting dynamic. i cannot wait to watch, report, and talk about it. i want to shift to the senate, okay, eugene? because all eyes are on the georgia senate runoff. you have got herschel walker, republican facing off against incumbent senator raphael warnock, and a county judge has recently ruled that state law does not bar early voting on a saturday despite the proximity to holidays. the secretary general's office says it plans to appeal the ruling. i have pushed back on democrats saying oh, or even, it was them saying that georgia does not matter because democrats know how the senate. but, how do you think, what is your reporting telling you about the current dynamics in georgia, particularly how will the fact that the democrats have the senate affect republicans? herschel walker is not necessarily, you know, the banter of all things republican that people are running out to

vote for. >> right. we do know that the republican party picked him, and are trying to present him as the best option to represent the state of georgia, and the senate. so, that is something that they are having to work against. because to your point, to the point of democrats, to the point of many georgia residents, herschel walker is not the individual that they want to see representing them. what is going to be very difficult for the gop is getting their voters to come out and back someone when they have spent much of the midterm preaching, and speaking out against early voting. that is one of the reasons that we have seen the democrats have so much success in so many races. because the democrats to vote early, and republicans tend to vote on election day. one thing that could be working against ruffalo warnock, we saw, not just in atlanta but in philadelphia, detroit, and milwaukee, there has been a decline in urban and black voters during this midterm election compared to 2018. so we are not going to have to

just keep his base motivated to show up one more time, and if you look at his latest ads, he is very much reminding that we have done this before. this is not our first runoff election. and so, whether or not he is going to be able to get these people back to the polls for the midterm, and whether or not he is successful. >> one more question for you, eugene, about merrick garland. we spent a lot of the time at the top of the show talking about his decision to appoint a special counsel. i wonder what you are hearing from folks about this decision from the attorney general? >> well, a lot of democrats are glad that a special counsel is going to be able to focus 100% on this investigation and free of garland. to focus on voting rights, and abortion rights, and all of these other issues that democrats really want him to, you know, put his attention on. people who generally are praising jack smith, saying that he has the credentials, and he is very not just emotionally, and rational, and political in ways that, of, course trump allies are trying

to paint him as, and that he will just be effective in doing what he has been hired to do. >> well you know, cristobal and i used to be at the white house together, and then the churches, i have seen it from the other side, from being in the house, and seeing what happens. it is, it will be interesting to watch for sure. eugene, alex, and sophia nelson, thank you very much. next, we are going to break down the estate of russia's floundering attack on ukraine. we are going to talk about how that deadly missile blast in poland retired four star general barry mccaffrey is joining me, we will talk all about it, next. , next washable rugs up to 80% off. and living room seating up to 65% off. search, shop, and save at wayfair! ♪ wayfair you've got just what i need ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪♪ voltaren. the joy of movement.

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they were in ukraine, it started 169 days ago. actually, 269 days ago. and today is the war continues, the united states estimates about 140,000 ukrainians have been killed. russia appears to be using his oldest advantages in war, the region's winter weather in a way that ukraine's president says his deliberately targeting civilians. russian forces have been blasting ukraine's power grid with artillery, and missile attacks, as much as 40% of ukraine was without power friday. and put that in perspective for you, in kyiv, it barely rises above freezing in december. but it has gotten as cold as minus 41 degrees fahrenheit. when i was in school, we did not leave the house if it was minus 22. all of this is on the heels of the deadly missile blast and nato member country poland, nato later said that it believes a ukrainian missile actually misfired, so given all of this, nato will now not invoke article five of its agreement and protect pullen,

but it certainly sparked a lot of questions. here to get us some answers is barry mccaffrey, he is also an msnbc military analyst. general, thank you so much for being here. so, as i just said, it appears that nato is now not going to involve article five after an explosion in poland that killed two. they are saying that it was likely an accident by a ukrainian air defense effort. the, volodymyr zelenskyy says that it wasn't. i think it is a person that ukraine and western allies have disagreed publicly like this. what is the fallout from all of that, and what does ukraine's road to peace look like right now? >> certainly it is a dangerous situation for ukraine. as you mentioned there, under massive attack from the air on their water, and electrical grids. more than 400 500 missiles fired at them. the good news is, the biden administration full --

have put massive humanitarian economic, and military aid into ukraine. and ukrainian military, with enormous courage, has won three major offensive operations. putin is stuck with a disaster, the logistics are not working, his -- are fleeing russia two adjoining nations. i think in the longer run, it is good news for ukraine. but this is unfortunate incident in public where zelenskyy got the wrong word, apparently, from his own air force general about the missile landing in poland. but that is not an important point. the important point is a sovereign nation under massive attack of its civilian population. >> you know, i actually want to get you to weigh in on north korea if i can for a moment. because particularly about the reports that the country launched, what appears to be an intercontinental ballistic

missile. these are the rockets for folks at home who have the potential to reach across continents. vice president harris condemned the launch while she was in thailand. i want to play for you what she had to say. >> this conduct must -- is a brazen violation of multiple un security resolutions. it destabilizes security in the region, and unnecessarily raises tensions. >> given what is happening in ukraine, know this, what do you suppose the defense department is thinking about all of it? >> look, north korea is rightfully dangerous. 30% of the adult population is in uniform, active or reserve. they fired 88 missiles, test firing right now in the last year. they have tested six nuclear weapons. they are on their second test that you mentioned, of an icbm that could strike the united states. the only good news is that kim

jong-un essentially runs a criminal enterprise. so he is unlikely in the short run to ever do something that would imperil his own leadership game. >> all right general, thank you so much, always breaking it down, appreciate your time. still ahead, there is a new documentary about the disinformation and polarization that we all know is so damaging to our country. we are going to get into it, next. get into it, next to make medicare easy... even easier than those dances your grandkids love doing with you. ok, i got it. (laughs) start medicare shopping today with walgreens find rx coverage. ♪♪ plus, find low-cost copays. when you need to talk medicare. walgreens, is here. ♪♪ ♪♪ walgreens. research shows people remember commercials with nostalgia. so to help you remember that liberty mutual customizes your home insurance,

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split screen. the next documentary by msnbc films. now, split screen unpacked how we got to this point of extreme polarization and disinformation while looking at the real world effect that they have, like what we saw during the attack on the capitol. you and i know that that was when a mob of rioters supporting former president donald trump stormed the united states capitol in an attempt to stop the counting of electoral college votes to certify the presidency of joe biden. but as my fellow host explains, there continues to be a huge difference and how people talk about what happened that day, take a look. >> i think perhaps one of the most fundamental examples of the difference of what happened, where the events around january 6th. it is a fundamental moment in this country's history.

and as we have seen, there are people who have tried to downplay it. they have tried to marginalize it. they have tried to mainstream the conversation around it. and there is another side that is being much more clear about the threat january six poses to our democracy and what was at stake and who is responsible for it. >> the point that even makes cannot be underscored enough. here now to discuss it even more is the split screen director herself, rebecca gullets is here to explain it all. thank you so much for being here. i guess i want to start, can you talk about why you felt it was so important to make this film, and to unpack the events of january 6th in this way? >> yeah. thank you for having me, and discussing this really important topic. time studios came together from a very journalistic standpoint

and said that we need to examine what is going on here. something that is affecting all of us, massively, they can use has consequences. we didn't want to look at it from a surface angle, we wanted to do a deep dive to understand the historical context that could lead us to a place as dangerous today. >> i think it is important to note that this did not come out of nowhere, this is not a new phenomenon of the last six months, or the last year and a half, or four years. there is to your point, historical context. there is also social media, and some, media organizations i think it is fair to say that fox news, the right-wing ecosystem in addition to social media all play the critical role in pushing what is known as the big lie. what kind of responsibility do you think that these and the t's of in what happened on january six specifically? >> i think that we all need to be responsible for not only what we are consuming but when we are putting out there. and dr. cobb had this amazing

line in the film that, to quote, those that can make us believe absurdities can make us commit atrocities. and we see that. when we share fake information, when the right-wing media shares disinformation, when a small thing on social media becomes a huge thing, this is one dangerous events can take place. >> you know, rebecca, i -- eamonn's point that he was making in the documentary speak so much to me because i will never forget a couple of months ago, standing on stage with a well-known mainstream republican, we talked about january 6th, and he said with a straight face, oh, no one on january 6th had a weapon. the real insurrection was in the summer of 2020. people clapped. what is going on? >> i cannot hear that anymore. i mean, it is so unbelievable to me. how far away from the truth that we can be, and how people

will believe it. you know, we are not talking about ideological divides here. we are talking about a complete erosion of truth, and an erosion of fact. and you know, amen also had an amazing point about how even when it catches up, even when the truth comes out, it can't catch up to the lies. >> rebecca, i cannot wait for people to see split screen. the director of split screen, thank you so much. and if you loved this conversation, do not worry, you can watch split screen tomorrow at 10 pm eastern right here on msnbc and it is also going to be streaming on peacock. thank you so much for watching simone on this saturday, that is it y'all. tomorrow on the show i am going to be joined by congressman and house majority james clyburn, and white house office of management and budget director, shalanda young. that is tomorrow right here on msnbc at 4 pm, politics nation

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