>> thanks for watching the katie phang show this morning, i'll be back next saturday and sunday at 7 am eastern, you can catch original episodes of the katie phang show on the msnbc app and peacock every thursday and friday. velshi starts right now. but >> good morning, it is

sunday, november 20th. i am sam stein, coming in today for ali velshi. following breaking news overnight out of colorado springs, they say shooting at the lgbtq+ nightclub has left at least five people dead and 18 injured. officials say the number of casualties is subject to change. the shooting took place at club q, just before midnight. police say the suspect has been caught and is being cheated at a local hospital. the fbi is on the scene along with local law enforcement, no official word yet of the suspect's motive. public information officer for the colorado springs police department spoke to reporters earlier this morning. >> got initial phone call, 57 in the evening, there was an active shooter at a local club, known as clough -- club q. numerous officers and medical immediately responded to the area, and officers immediately

made entry. they did locate one individual, who was originally the suspect inside. at this point in time, the investigation is in his very initial stages. but i can tell you that we have 18 injured, and five deceased. that number is subject to change as the investigation continues. >> all right, let's go straight to the scene, to our reporter with the nbc affiliate in colorado springs, koaa. natalie, tell us what you know. >> hey there, sam. like you mentioned, so far we know that five people are dead from the shooting, 18 injured. we also know that suspect is being treated at a hospital, but we do not know that identity and or any confirmed motive. club q is just behind me, i will step out of the way so you

guys can get a better look at the scene right now, it has definitely calmed down out here since they initially got the call about six hours ago, just before midnight. the club posted to their facebook page saying they are quote, devastated by this attack on our community. club q also saying it was the quick reactions of heroic customers that subdued the gunman. we are still working to confirm that with law enforcement, however. but police did say this was not an officer involved shooting. we are expecting an update from multiple law enforcement agencies in a couple of hours, in two hours, including from the district attorney's office. we have that suspect has not been officially charged yet. i was just getting messages on facebook from people who say they frequently come to this nightclub, saying they are still just trying to wrap their heads around the fact that this is not a nightmare. reporting in colorado spring, natalie chuck, we will send it back to you guys. >> a tragic scene. natalie chuck in colorado

springs, please keep safe. joining me now is jim kavanaugh, retired special agent in charge of the atf and an msnbc terrorism analyst. jim, thank you for joining us. police are calling this a hate attack. they have brought in the fbi. what is the standard procedure for how this gets handled from this point out? >> we'll, if they have a lot of upfront evidence, sam, it is a hate attack. for example, if the killer was rolling out racial epithets, writing on his clothing, or a confessed immediately after being apprehended, or a lot of social media postings about hate, then the fbi will take a bigger role because it will also be a federal crime. a hate crime is a federal crime. if that is not evident, they will have to dig that out first, but they will be working hand in glove with colorado springs detectives, processing the scene, interviewing all of the witnesses inside the club, anybody who might have a

statement they watched it unfold, the first responding officers, the patriots who subdue the suspect, anyone with phones inside and out of the club, any evidence like that. and of course, interviews with all of the killers neighbors, coworkers, associates, family and of course, we recovered the gun, did all the forensic identification, matching the bullets from the victims, to the autopsies and those wounded, we need to get the projectiles out of the hospital, the medical examiner will then match at the forensic laboratory to the files, obviously it which has been recovered. we don't know what kind of firearm or firearms it is, but that will have to be used in court, the killer is alive, he will stand at the bar of justice some day, and 88, maybe a u.s. attorney will have to prosecute him. >> jim, we talk about establishing motive, talking to people about that, but also authorities will have to establish the suspects access to the firearm itself. walk us through the steps to

decide or figure out whether that fire was legally obtained. >> right. i guarantee, atf special agents were on the scene along with fbi, we are doing an urgent trace of the gun. of course, the colorado state authorities will have some computer records of those gun purchases, from state law. that gun will quickly be traced and oftentimes, in these kind of cases, it goes right back to the killer, you know. their mission is often, it ends with their event, they don't have an escape plan. sometimes they attempt suicide, so they are not trying to cover their tracks. we very well might trace this back to him, it's just more evidence against him. sam, this is not a mystery case. this is a sad, vulgar event. this is horrific, this is pain and agony in colorado springs. it is not a mystery. if it proves that he was a lone actor, and really, the

underlying support, if hate is the motive, the underlying support that he gets from the white community on the internet, from you know, bigots, haters, klansmen, nazis, and that ilk, they are always after the lgbtq community, on the web, they don't want anybody to live their lives. they want to reach out, lash out, a lot of them are cowards, they will push other people to do stuff on the web, they won't do anything themselves, sometimes that is what happens. it is not new in america, it is a sad state. the internet propels it forward a little faster than it used to be. >> it might not be new in america, but colorado itself, maybe i am oversimplifying here, but colorado has been the victim of multiple mass shootings over the years. we had columbine in 1999, aurora, the movie theater shooting in 2012, rampage at a planned parenthood in 2015.

jim, i am just sort of curious, do we live in a system where these communities that experience these types of traumatic events are then suddenly more susceptible to them? by that do i mean, they become more commonplace, there are copycats. people just take it as part of the social fabric that this is what happens. is this something we should be on the lookout for, that would become desensitized to this? >> well, as a nation we are very desensitized to it, there is no question about that. many years ago, we would not stand for this. in fact, we did not stand for this. all of the federal firearm laws passed in the countries are a result of the killings, the shootings, the 1934, the national firearms act but regulated machine guns was in reaction to all the criminals, i'll component, john dillinger, those days. 1968, it was in result of the assassination of martin luther king, jfk, we passed the gun control act, which was a

seminal event. after the event in california, massacring children's school yard, we passed the assault weapons ban. so we used to respond to these things to try to stop them, but we don't really do that anymore. the killers on the other hand, there is somebody watching the news today, this kind of activity is on the forefront of their mind, they warship other killers like you mentioned columbine, you know, they warship the supermarket killer in buffalo, that was just in court up there, they were shipped the killer in new zealand. they mimic them. they follow them. they copy them, and then they become part of a larger, you know, digital community that supports the kind of action. society at large, we condemn it, but there is a community that supports it, cheers it on.

that's what they want to be a part of. so yes, we should all be vigilant, because when this stuff happens, it could happen again. i remember spending a whole sunday with willie geist on his show in the morning, at the polls nightclub, and that awful case, and this brings it back to that, sometimes the gay community is subject to some of the worst hate in america, beatings, shootings all of the time. really, really they are just people who want to live their lives, they don't want to bother you, they want to live their lives. but some people want to commit violence, hurt them just because of who they are. and we are not going to get rid of it, unfortunately. >> yes. pulse nightclub it was the first thing they came to my head this morning. jim cavanaugh, thank you very much, really appreciate the insights. this story is developing, the next press conference is expected at 10 am eastern, msnbc will bring that to you as it happens. coming up after the break, we

will turn into the fallout from the midterm elections. what is the future? including a deep dive into donald trump's legal troubles. but a major new report from the new york times says that this year's early leak of the supreme court decision to overturn roe v wade was not the first major decision to be leaked ahead of time. i will explain coming up on velshi. o velshi from holiday hills, illinois to rudolph, wisconsin. from santa claus, indiana to snowflake, arizona. from garland, texas to north pole, new york and everywhere in between. we're holiday ready with fast and reliable delivery, serving every address in america. the united states postal service. grandmom! walgreens find rx coverage is here to make medicare easy... even easier than those dances your grandkids love

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political scene, and is already getting help from the switch in powerful ally. last night, trump's old twitter account was revived, nearly two years after he was banned from the side for using it to inspire a violent riot at the capitol, that was led by his followers. new twitter ceo elon musk made the decision after setting up a twitter poll, asking users if trump should be reinstated. musk's decision came less than

one week after trump announced his third run for the presidency, just a day after attorney general merrick garland appointed a special counsel to take over the justice department's ongoing criminal investigations, involving the former president. it also comes at a time when trump's influence appears to be waning. many top candidacies endorsed failed to get elected this midterm. among, those trump backed detroiter, or to trump loyalists who lost their elections in arizona. it is kelly cool ran for governor, mark vindman, a governor losses bid for secretary of state. neither has conceded the race, they are both continuing to attack the electoral process, without presenting any solid evidence. this is reminiscent of how trump reacted on twitter, in the days after his 2020 election loss. in fact, moments after trump's reinstatement on twitter, finchem began retweeting a series of old trump posts about an election fraud which will

revive, along with trump's profile. joining me now to discuss this is ryan riley, justice reporter for nbc news digital. and he's regarded as the hardest working man in journalism. ryan, you have been closely following many of these january six cases for a while, when casey reported out this week said, he wanted trump's approval, and thought he was quote, following presidential orders when he attacked the capitol. how common is this type of defense, brian, in what role, in what role did twitter itself play in making people think this way prior to january six? >> you know, i think we have a lot of people who were inspired by facebook, where we have more of the references. that is one of the most common tools that we have seen, both referencing all of these court cases as well, as evidence in these court cases, it provided a lot of evidence. but twitter does come up relatively frequently. you know, usually, trump's

posts were posted on twitter, and regurgitated on these other media outlets, including on facebook. but twitter was his go to, these immediate, unfiltered posts he was making, that would then be brought up on other social media platforms. but that case was unique. this was an individual who stole a liquor bottle and a coat wreck from the u.s. capitol, is college educated, i guess he got laid off during the pandemic, got sucked into these conspiracy theories and then actually argued that, as he took the stand during his trial, and argued he was seeking trump's approval. he says he did not have a strong father figure in his life. this was a 36-year-old man, a full grown man, essentially arguing that he could not make his own choices because he was so wrapped up in the trump message. there was a really funny moment during the trial or the prosecutor, actually asked the individuals if they got dressed

themselves in the morning, or if they were a child. and he responded, no, he got dressed all by himself that morning. it did not work with the jury or judges. immediately after the conviction, the judge through this guy, in trial until sentencing this week. so he was not too thrilled with the approach that this individual, justin thompson took at his trial there. >> so now there are two venues, roughly speaking, regarding january 6th and the justice system. one is all these prosecutions of people who stormed the capitol, the other one is this investigation into the role trump himself played. this week, a special counsel have been appointed in the doj's criminal investigations involving trump, and a news conference on friday, attorney general garland said the special counsel will look into aspects of trump's role on january six. what do we know so far about jack smith, the special counsel who has been appointed, what has he been tasked to do here that garland was not himself doing?

>> i don't think it's anything new, i think it's just creating a separation. essentially, it is inspired by donald trump's decision to announce his run for president. they wanted to create a sort of, there is an appearance of impropriety, in the justice department terms. and this idea that merrick garland is investigating his bosses potential rival, in something merrick garland is not worried about the appearance of. he's worried that biden appointed him, how will that look if biden and trump are facing off again in 2024? ihe wants to create separation. a lot of the criticism in the justice department, none of this will really matter, when we get the special counsel, from merrick garland, but that is what he wants to be able to say, is listen, there is separation here. i don't make these decisions directly. although, merrick garland has made several different -- decisions, independent of the justice department in terms of, ongoing prosecutions and investigations into democrats,

right? those are certainly not let up. hunter biden is still floating out there that potential for a criminal case against him. he left the u.s. attorney in delaware, in place to finish off that investigation, that is something we could see coming forward in the future. he left the other special counsel investigation, to go on specially from hunter biden, an investigation that was more focused on, an investigation in the russian investigation, essentially. i think he has made sure that there is some sort of independents, you know, that's his goal, to make sure the justice department holds up its independence. >> all right. finally, really quickly, this is all happening, this is the legal venue, there is also the congressional venue, the january six committee. the january six committee is wrapping up its investigation. obviously, it has a sort of drop date, when republicans take over the house, they say they will disband the committee, we all know this will happen. they will file a report which

will largely focus on trump's role. what do you think is the ultimate objective here for the committee when it finishes up, puts up the report? how do you see this timeline in the next six weeks or so? >> i think, you saw the hearings were very trump centric. that's what the media is leaning towards. you wonder about some of the issues with the justice department that have come up, some of the signals they should've seen, before the january 6th attack. this is something that could get put to the side here. they really want the focus to be on trump, a lot of that is driven by liz cheney, a potential 2024 rival of course for the former president. i think basically that is what they will keep their eye on, that's probably what she said in messages, they want to make sure the american people are focused on what they consider a unique threat to democracy. >> all right. nbc's ryan riley, a pleasure, pleasure is immense on my side of the aisle, thank you for joining me, really appreciate it. now joined by former

congressman, denver riggleman, the ceo of the riggleman defense group, and on the january six select committee, and also author of the breach, the untold story of the investigation into january six. congressman, thank you very much for joining, appreciate it. so, relevant times to be talking about your book today, the first sentence of the synopsis of the books as quote, make no mistake, modern information warfare is here. january six was just the first battle. so what are your thoughts now of elon musk, his takeover of twitter and the decision last night to revive former president donald trump's account? >> can you hear me? >> yes, i can hear you. >> okay, just want to make sure. no, i went [inaudible] i think people should do this today, go back to the dates of january 4th and january 8th. look at the individuals i would say who are amplifying the

message about stolen election. be on one hand, donald trump back on twitter, and understanding the anguished, but for me, somebody who looks at data, who looks at that type of thing, i think this is valuable. i think everyone should look at those individuals who were amplifying this, even public mcenany, tommy lauren, looked at people amplifying this ridiculousness, and i think it's a good reminder, refresher of how insane the trump white house was around that time. >> you don't see any potential for adversarial or, damaging fallout from the incitement that his twitter account could produce? >> i always do. the scary thing is that hate is a metastasizing agent. you saw some of the things donald trump re-tweeted. if you go back to 2020, he was retweeting about seal team six being killed by obama and biden. he amplified internet trolls, qanon trolls on the obama gave hashtag, but actually came

right out of twitter. so absolutely, i see some of those things as dangerous. we have issues of all the other social media platforms also, look at parlor, gap, you are looking at all of these types of social media, or the script code protected chat rooms, stuff like that. those are also metastasizing agents. for me, twitter is part of a bigger issue with social media. the ability that digital profits out there can actually make digital profits, you know? so there is the prophets and the profits. i guess it is insight into what happened that day, people can't go read them again and say, the danger that is presented by someone who is completely unhinged, or you know, we intend to keep power anyway we could. so seeing the people who are on there again could be a great refresher for the american people. d >> there is another element to

talk about, which is trump said he will not get back on twitter, at least as of now, he is comfortable with his platform, truth social. so i guess, do you expect him to ultimately get back on twitter which is a much larger platform, obviously there are more people. is the issue over here for you really about, not about moderation, but content moderation, twitter had certain standards, it led to trump being kicked off the platform, elon musk is relaxing those platforms in the name of free speech. do you believe really what this comes down to is an issue of content moderation, or are you one of those people who says, live and let live, it is better to see everything, there will be platforms they can go to regardless, so what is the point? >> while there is always a point [inaudible] intelligence games loss, if you have platforms, people need to go somewhere, someone like trump or other people, they put things out there that are dangerous, dehumanizing, ridiculous or conspiratorial, they go to other platforms and

drive people there as well. so a lot of the planning is done in the dark. for me, it is a balance when you do a platform based on, will you lose the intelligence, the ability to see into their mindset, or to see other individuals they are talking to. as far as twitter and truth social, it is about monetization. for me, when i look at it i think if donald trump can keep truth social and still monetize twitter, that's what he will be. i wonder if this love lost back and forth with the truth social and twitter, with some leadership groups, if they can do that, where twitter, trump is still part of the twitter universe, but can keep truth social. that looks like a win for him. i think if trump can monetize twitter again, i think that's what he will do, he will try to monetize it like truth social. i think elon sees that, i would not be surprised if trump is back on twitter eventually, and can somehow rationalize the truth social and twitter can work together towards a common goal. as you know, that common goal is trump winning the 2020 for presidency, getting the nomination for the gop. >> let me quickly ask you about, that we are running late on

time here, what, he served with a lot of these republican members in congress, do you think trump himself has the significance he did six years ago, and number two, how do you imagine your old republican colleagues in the house will approach his candidacy this time around? >> i think he has enough influence. he might not have had as much as he has before, but i would still say 200 gop districts will go for trump right now. saying trump is not a factor is actually ludicrous. i think he would win the nomination right now based on the money that he can raise. i would say four people in the gop right now. i think 2023 to 2024 it will be about retaliation, not legislation. that's something i have been telling folks, there will be a committee, committees to investigate so many things, but i will not be surprised if there is one to actually investigate the january six select committee, allowing the people on the committee to be subpoenaed.

some people are more dangerous to subpoena than others, so i'm actually sort of eager to see what they do on this, and a little bit horrified about what we will see in the next years. >> are you preparing for a subpoena, sir? >> i am always prepared. i think a lot of people are preparing for subpoenas right now, i don't give a rats, you know? i think we are at a point where we all must fight for facts over fantasy. i would rather fact face individuals than fact-check individuals. if someone wants to ask me about the data, what the committee did that it's been very successful, i am happy to be one of them. >> all right. will former republican congressman denver riggleman, always a pleasure, let me know when the subpoena arrives, thank you very much. we are following, turning too much cider news. we are following the deadly shooting at the lgbtq nightclub in colorado springs, we will bring you a live update from there, next. om there, next.

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breaking news out of colorado. police say at least five people are dead, 18 injured after a gunman opened fire at an lgbtq nightclub in the city of colorado springs. the shooting took place just before midnight, at a nightclub named club q. the suspect has been apprehended, and is being treated at a local hospital. authorities have yet to give word on an official motive, but the fbi is now on scene, working with local law enforcement. let's go right to nbc's emily keita, for more on this, emily, what information do we have about this tragedy? >> sam, really some devastating developments coming out of colorado springs. remember we are just hours since the shooting, police acknowledging that unfortunately, but number of victims could still rise. but right now, what we know,

five people killed, 18 people injured in a shooting that happened less than one hour after a dj was scheduled to take the stage at club q, as you mentioned. some victims were transported to local hospitals in ambulances. but speaking to the mass casualty nature of this incident, some people were even transported by police cars. we do not know the victim's conditions at this point. the initial 9-1-1 call as you mentioned came in just before midnight. police in colorado springs so officers arrived, and immediately entered into the club or the identified who appeared to be the suspect. but, where we get more interesting details is a statement from club q, posted on its facebook page. it reads, club q is devastated by the senseless attack on our community. our prayers and thoughts are with the victims, families and friends. this next bit is remarkable. it goes on to thank the quick reactions of heroic customers, that subdued the gunman and ended this hate attack. now police have not commented

on the motive, but understandably, this stirs up a lot of emotions, memories of various attacks on gay clubs in the past, including the 2016 mass shooting at the pulse nightclub in orlando that killed 49 people. sam, i will tell you, hours before the shooting, club q posted on its facebook page, talking about an event, a drag brunch schedule for today to honor transgender day of remembrance. still, a lot of unanswered questions at this point, we know the suspect is in custody, being treated at a local hospital. as you mentioned, the fbi is on scene assisting. we are hoping to learn more information at a 10 am news conference. we are just learning the mayor of colorado springs is supposed to attend. that? sam >> just horrible news out of colorado springs. nbc -- sorry, nbc's emily ikeda, thank you very much, appreciate it. the story is still developing, the next press conference, as emily mentioned is expected at 10 am eastern, msnbc will bring that to you as it happens.

there is a lot of controversy after the early leak of the supreme court's decision to overturn roe v. wade, but a major new report from the new york times says that was not the only major decision to be leaked ahead of time. i will explain it all, coming up on velshi. up on velshi you can make it even smarter. now ports can know where every piece of cargo is. and where it's going. (dock worker) right on time. (vo) robots can predict breakdowns and order their own replacement parts. (foreman) nice work. (vo) and retailers can get ahead of the fashion trend of the day with a new line tomorrow. with a verizon private 5g network, you can get more agility and security. giving you more control of your business. we call this enterprise intelligence. from the network america relies on. my most important kitchen tool? my brain. so i choose neuriva plus. unlike some others, neuriva plus is a multitasker supporting 6 key indicators of brain health. to help keep me sharp. neuriva: think bigger.

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a draft version of the supreme court decision to overturn roe v. wade was leaked to the press, to a place where i work, in fact, politico. but the dobbs case may not have been the only major supreme court case to be leaked. as the supreme court investigates that monumental leak of the dobbs opinion, new york times has learned somebody has come forward, alleging another breach. years ago. the landmark case involving rules around insurance coverage, birth control. times reports as quote, in a letter to chief justice john g. roberts junior, and interviews with the new york times, the reverend robert shank said he was told the outcome of the case weeks before it was announced. he used that information to prepare a public relations push, records show, he said that at the last minute, he tipped off the president of the craft store chain owned by christian invent illegals which was winning, that was the winning

party in the case. the case in question is -- 5 to 4 supreme court ruling from 2014, which allowed privately held companies to object on religious grounds to an obama care law that required employers to cover certain contraceptives for their female employees. it was a big deal. not the courts first time recognizing a for profit corporations claim of religious belief. reverend schenke was an antiabortion leader at the time, told the new york times that he learned of the ruling hours after two of his star donors, donald and gayle wright had dinner with justice samuel alito and his wife, martha and. nbc news is not independently confirming with that reporting. justice alito wrote the hobby lobby majority opinion, in an statement obtained by nbc news, alito says any suggestion that he or his wife leaked the outcome of the ruling is quote, completely false.

in a statement from the court, alito said quote, i never detected any effort on the part of them to obtain confidential information or to influence anything that i did either in unofficial or private capacity. and i would have strongly objected if they had done so. this wright also told the new york times that she denies obtaining or passing along any such information. a representative from hobby lobby would not comment. the new york times says quote, evidence of mr. schenck's account of the breach has gaps. but in the months of examining this to the claims from schenck, they found the trail of contemporaneous emails, and conversations with strongly suggested that he knew the outcome, and the author of the hobby lobby decision before it was made public. now after the leak of the draft opinion which would eventually overturn roe v. wade, chief justice roberts made the rare decision to order an investigation of the supreme

court, by the supreme courts martial. mr. schenck, who has since soft and his stance on abortion rights came forward because he felt this information about the hobby lobby case was relevant. as the new york times puts it, quote, the allegations from mr. schenck creates an unusual, contentious situation, a minister who spent years at the center of the antiabortion movement, a whistleblower, a denial by a sitting get justice, and an institution which shows little outward signs of getting to the bottom of the recent leak of the abortion ruling, or following up on mr. schenck's allegations. wow, big story. joining me now is donna lippman, senior editor and legal correspondent at slate, msnbc law and politics analyst, and author of j.d. -- lady justice, the battle to save america. also with me is barbara mcquade, the former u.s. attorney for michigan's eastern district an msnbc legal analyst. thank you both for coming on. let's start with you, donna.

what should we make of the fact that the supreme court, a supreme court justice is having dinner with donors, that could influence major decisions in front of him? first of all, is this common practice, what does it say about the court? >> that is the right framing. i think that the right framing is that there was this massive influence campaign which was going on, entity called faith and actions, that set up office across the street from the supreme court. they get donors with did interest in outcomes of the court to funnel money, through the supreme court historical society, and then they get invited to parties for the hobnobbed with the justices. they offer their vacation homes for the justices to go have a fancy dinners. and then apparently, they chat about the outcomes of cases in advance of the rulings. i mean every piece of this suggests a massive, massive campaign to influence an outcome.

>> also as you say, evidently, there are people who know outcomes of cases before the rest of us. >> yes, the buying of the property was something pretty wild, something that you would imagine on an episode of the americans or something, but i guess it happens in real life, i had no idea. barbara, going off of this new york times report, non-court members in this case, the wright's, they knew something they were not supposed to. they were not supposed to know what this decision was going to be, but they managed to obtain that and then spread the word. so for the uninitiated, what are the harms here of having prior knowledge of a decision leak out to people like the wright's? >> it is not a crime to know what is going to happen at the supreme court before it is actually issued. but people can obtain all kinds of advantages if they know what is coming, especially in big cases. one is messaging. if they know the court will rule in a certain way, they can

take action in support of that and demonstrate their own insights, lobbying influence to others. they can take financial interest. if you know the court will come out a certain way, either favoring or opposing some business practice, you can invest in that business practice and enjoy the windfall that comes when you are able to use this insider information to the competitive advantage of everyone else. politically, if you can see the tea leaves of what will happen down the road, you can arrange your affairs in a way to take advantage of it. so it is extremely harmful to american politics and american business, when people are tipped off about something as significant as a supreme court opinion. i think it is a very serious problem. even though it is not crime, it does suggest that we need to reform some of the ethics of the supreme court to either prevent this from happening or provide transparency into it. >> well let's pick up on that, dahlia. let's be honest, there's no system that you can institute where justices are simply prohibited from having dinner

with folks, right? that will never happen. but what kind of steps could the court potentially institute, that would maybe bring a little bit more semblance of impartiality, more stringent ethical guide rails? what will be the suggestion on how you can make the court, performance, to prevent what's teams of a conflict of interest or at least damage from stuff like this happening? >> you know, i was struck by your earlier interview about the justice department and, the decision to outsource the investigation into donald trump. the hallmark here is the appearance of impropriety. you don't want to look to the public as though you are in on one side or the other. believe it or not, that is also lodestone for the judicial rules. our articles read they are bound by rules and cannons that say you cannot appear to be doing anything improper.

it does not weather whether you are arguing something improper. but those cannons, those rules are not applied in anything in the advisory manner to the justices of the supreme court, the nine justices of the supreme court, in a new york times quote, chief justice john roberts, they consult those rules but are not bound by them. so i think that the essential thing here is to codify ethics rules, as barbara just said, that are applied to the supreme court justices, enforced against them, but more deeply, what the court needs to take seriously, their own popularity ratings, their own confidence in the institution is undermined when the justices do not care that the appearance of impropriety is in fact, being violated by them. so i would say in addition to transparency, in addition to meaningful, meaningful reform about disclosures, the most important thing is that the justices take seriously, when they look like they are in the

tank with people who have vested interest in their cases, that undermines public confidence, and it needs to evolve. >> people need to understand objectively, the supreme court is the least transparent of our governing bodies, by leaps and bounds. barbara, could a revelation like this prompt an actual second look at the case law? obviously, it is now years since this was decided. there's no indication that alito whatever changes mind. but to imagine people who watch this, on the wrong side of, it might reconsider the legal options in light of these revelations? >> i do not think so, i do not think anything about this suggests that justice alito made the decision based on any undue influence, he simply shared it, disclosed it early to people who had an interest in the outcome of the case. so i don't think it has any legal effect. but i do think that as dahlia said, the legitimacy of the

court depends on the public opinion of. it so i think being involved in some reform efforts, with corrupt political officials, and the answer usually lies in transparency, sunlight is the best disinfectant. you say we can't monitor who justices have dinner with? i think we can, in the same way where we know where the president is at all times of the day, if you want to be on the supreme court, maybe you need to disclose those pieces of information as well. >> an interesting point, i stand corrected! barbara mcquade, gallic, thank you so much for coming on, incredible story, really appreciate your insights on this. next up, we have some nice news, actually. there was a wedding at the white house this weekend, featuring none other than the presidents eldest grand daughter. more on that, ahead. more on that, ahead. to make medicare easy... even easier than those dances your grandkids love doing with you. ok, i got it. (laughs) start medicare shopping today with walgreens find rx coverage.

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president or his birthday celebrations, but about sending his first granddaughter down the aisle. it was a white wedding at the white house yesterday. president biden's eldest grandchild, naomi biden, mary peter neil, on a soft launch ceremony. the south portico of the white house was decorated with leaves and garland bearing peter full, white flowers. the bride and groom were both dressed in a tire designed by ralph lauren. but no one ever cares only about the dress. the lacey, long sleeve ivory gown was custom-made, and look at that train, i can't believe they had to make this. according to the new york times, it was a quintessential biden affair, planned by the close knit family, and a handful of trusted aides. unlike past white house weddings, this one was closed to the press. the white house, releasing these photos to the public. naomi is the 28-year-old granddaughter, sorry, 20-year-old daughter of biden's son, hunter. she has always had a close relationship with her

grandfather. naomi is said to be the one who called the family needing to urge her grandfather to run for president in 2019. president biden, and first lady jill biden released a statement saying quote, it has been a joy to watch family grow, discover who she is, and carve out such an incredible life for herself. now, we are filled with pride to see her choose peter as her husband, and we are honored to welcome him to our family. we wish them days full of laughter, love that goes deeper with every passing year. mazel tov to the couple, i'm genuinely thrilled for them and glad that i got to read about the dress and it's train! now, straight ahead, i will talk to a democratic representative david cicilline about the former presidents current legal troubles. speaker nancy pelosi's lasting legacy, the future of the democratic party and the very latest on the overnight shooting at the lgbtq nightclub in colorado, that has left five

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i love it when you talk nerdy to me. guy, guys, guys, we're still in session. i'm san simon filling in for and i don't know what the heck you're talking about. adam velshi -- who colorado springs officials are expected to give an update on that an lgbtq nightclub. police say at least five people are dead, 18 injured after a

suspect opened fire inside a club queue. officials say the number of casualties are subject to change. the initial call came in just before midnight. police say the suspect has been caught, has been treated at a local hospital. click you posted to its facebook page saying, quote, club view is devastated by the senseless attack on our community. our prayers and thoughts are with all the victims and their families and friends. we thank the quick reactions of heroic customers that subdued the gunman and ended the state attack. now let's go to nbc's -- was the latest hearing from colorado springs? >> as you mentioned, the initial 9-1-1 call came in just before midnight. we're seeing response from multiple agencies, including police and fire, 11 ambulances, several dozen firefighters. authorities are calling this, defining the, as a mass casualty