mass shooting at an lgbtq nightclub. plus the ohio democrat who defeated a 13 term incumbent republican, i'm gonna speak with congressman elect about the biden agenda and his plans in the house of representatives. and crisis of confidence, a new allegation of another supreme court leak. it is the highest court in the land unraveling before our very eyes? i am ayman, let's get started. we tonight we start with that breaking news out of colorado, a gunman entered a colorado springs lgbtq nightclub late last night and immediately opened fire, killing at least five people and injuring 25 others. police chief adrienne vásquez says that two patrons confronted the suspect and detained him until authorities arrived. that is -- they described their actions as heroic.

steve patterson is in colorado springs with the latest for us. steve, i understand that you managed to speak to a bartender who is in the club when this shooting started. what did he tell you? >> yeah, that is exactly right eamonn. and i think in the next few days we are going to learn a whole lot more about the suspects, the victims of course, but right now, day one, it is all about the people who are inside that club that experienced this terrible ordeal. one of them, his name was michael anderson, a bartender. he was telling me that it was a normal night, there was a drag show, everybody was having fun and there are some dancing. and then those four shots rang, out and they almost sounded like part of the song so people did not first fully, which of course further led to the horror. unfortunately though, michael was -- fortunately i should say, michael was able to get some cover. he told me exactly how he got, there and how close he came to seeing that shooter face to

face. listen to this. >> i had a coworker with me, and we were all just huddled together praying that it ends. >> did he come in that room? >> all i saw, i put my head up over the booth, and i saw the barrel of a gun like, poked into the patio room. i just saw the tip of it and it was at that point that i legitimately thought i was about to get shot. >> on his way out, he also saw three people, one the shooter on his ground on the back, and two people on top of that shooter. he said that they were repeatedly beating him. then he was able to, of course, get out. a lot of people of course we're not. he talked about that as well, this community is certainly in pain. there is a long way to go. but he also said that one of the things that he wanted to do was to speak out, because it is part of the healing process. that is what we have been hearing that are here, that process is barely underway, but

it is underway. and as we keep speaking to people that something that will continue to grow out of this community that is just been so traumatized. but has the chance to heal. meanwhile, police continue to do their work. they are still processing the scene, talking to witnesses, digging into the shooters background as they try to determine what exactly happened here. a man. >> yeah, another mass shooting in this country. incredibly, unbelievably sad. msnbc's steve patterson live for us in colorado springs, thank you. we want to shift gears now and tonight, at this hour, talk about politics. failed gubernatorial candidate kari lake stands alone as the last battleground state republican refusing to concede her race. in fact, late this week, according to the washington post, lake flew down to trump's florida trump to work with trump and his team to, quote, unquote, collect evidence in order to contest their defeat. she will not find that evidence, though, we can tell her that for free and while kari lake

lost in the midterms, we need to issue a warning to our viewers in this country. election denialism is not dead. we should all celebrate the big lie advocates that went down on election night, but here is a harsh reality that everyone should hear clearly. 62% of candidates who denied or cast out on 20 biden's 2020 election victory, actually won their races for senate, house, or secretary of state. of the 268 total candidates, 160 61 and will still own hold incredible political power. crafting laws, spewing this information. now they will able to do so with official government titles in from their names. that is not even counting lower level officials who have also supported the big lie. just hours ago, on his social platform, trump himself continued to spread misinformation about the midterms. as a lame job freed right in the atlantic, it would be foolish to pronounce stop the steal dead, an entire swath of

the republican party is now open to the idea that any narrow loss can be blamed on fraud. we so let me be clear here, the big lie did not die on election night. we need to keep fighting it on the georgia runoff in 2024, and likely beyond, because if it is repeated, it's cold hard evidence of not done enough to deter conspiracists, a disappointing midterm cycle will not dissuade them either. joining me now is steve, simon the newly reelected secretary of state and vice chair of the democratic association of secretaries of state. secretary simon, thank you so much for coming back on the program. we had you on the show just before the election, warning about these election deniers. it is great that so many went down in defeat, but is that, as i said, 62% of major big lie candidates. won their races. your reaction to that troubling number. >> it is troubling, all can say

is that we have not yet broken the fever. i think we are a step closer since the election, 11 days ago. i think the american people in state after state resoundingly said they were on team normal not on team extreme. that, if anything, managed to at least slow down the stop the steal movement. but i am not under no illusion, like you, and that is that we are headed to a presidential election. 2022 was, if anything, address rehearsal for that and i think we can count on some of the same old arguments, the really poisonous arguments to come back at us. it is not just about what happens after the election, it is what happens in the lead up to the election and that starts now for the 2024 cycle. >> are you at all concerned, sir, that these election deniers will soon be holding elected office, could spread misinformation or even worse? use that in their positions in god knows what they can do with it? >> yeah, i'm very concerned about that. sort of poisoning the well in advance of the 2024 election. the other thing i am really worried about when you look at

that election, which is not as far away as you think, is this idea of not just questioning the result afterward, we've seen a lot of that we are probably going to see that in states like arizona, but what i'm worried about is people using their position or people who do not even have a position, that throwing sand in the gears and delay or slow down or impact the process as we are gearing up for the election. let me give you a quick example, in minnesota and several other states we have had outside political forces recruiting election judges. and that is fine, i think anybody who recruits an election judge from any point on the political spectrum is okay. but, in minnesota and every state you have to leave your politics out the door, in fact in many states people who work the polls literally raise their hands and swear an oath to be fair and neutral and non and impartial. my worry is that outsiders increasingly are telling people to ignore that, and in minnesota and other states counseling them to do things that are not impartial, not

just things that put their thumb on the scale but things that are potentially illegal. and possibly criminal. we saw some of those reports in minnesota and other states, that is my worry. disinformation, not just people saying things that do not make sense and are not borne out by the facts, but doing things that could sabotage elections beforehand. >> let me ask you about your state, if i can, and the elections in minnesota. were you pleased with how things went on election day? >> very. it was almost trouble free. there were a few normal glitches, but overwhelmingly when it came to the machines, the poll workers, the noted absence of any threats or intimidation against voters, this was really an almost pitch perfect election from an administrative standpoint. >> as i mentioned the vice president of the democratic association of secretary of state's, what did you learn from the winds of election deniers in these battleground states including your own, that you can use, or how are you

planning on using what you've learned, going forward into 20 2024? >> two things stand out to me in terms of looking back at what we're successful not just administrative but in both most states where we have these battles. one is to always lead with the truth, wherever possible, lead with the truth. say what the truth is in the face of the lies and in the face of the disinformation and propaganda. now i am not naive, and neither you or your viewers, i'm not saying that simply saying what the truth is going to make the lies go away, or that the people who peddle them are going to shrivel up and leave. not everyone has to make a one 80. sometimes people can make a 17 or a 23 or 38, and overtime that could have an effect. the other thing that i think was a great loss going forward, and this got extends beyond 2024, is transparency is our friend. in state after state after state, when voters come to understand or become appointed or reacquainted with the election system is as it is and

functions in the real world, not as it has been explained or distorted on social media feed or by a national political figure, when people come into contact with a system as it really is they come away with a ton of confidence. in state after state the system is fair, accurate, and secure. never perfect, but always sound analysis. >> steve simon, always a pleasure, thank you for coming back on the show i look forward to continuing this conversation. >> thank you for having me. >> i am joined now by my sunday night panel, that is all michaels the democratic strategist and executive director of the democratic party. and the history professor from nyu, right here in new york state. ruth all start with you, your reaction to the battleground election deniers losing their racist and what it says that 62% of major big lie candidates actually won? >> yeah, i was really heartened at all the successes of course, but we do need to stand on guard because the ultimate goal

of election denial, or election subversion, is not this or that one or election, but to discredit the election system in the absence of. propaganda associates worked by association in peoples minds. the goal has always been to have american voters associate our elections with corruption and fraud to the point where, essentially, they would be -- they would not think that elections are the best way to elect our leaders and choose our leaders. then, as you know a mom, that opens the door for acceptance of other kinds of transitions of power like authoritarian ones like january six. >> basil, it seems like democrats are successfully damage messaging threats on democracy, at least in the midterms. how does the party maintain that momentum going into 2024 and does the fact that trump,

the fact that trump is running again make it easier for them because it is just at the forefront of everyone's mind. he is going to talk about the big lie and the election is being stolen, and it will be easy for democrats to hammer that message home. >> yeah, no i think that is an important point because trump in many ways is the face of the big lie. but, i also look to the state like new york where i live, and that an election denier came within a few points of beating a sitting democratic governor. so, there still is a tremendous amount of work to be done and i do think that, as a party, the democrats have done an extraordinary job with the january six committee, calling this issue, bringing this issue to light in many ways. what the republicans made a huge error by boycotting that committee because the democrats were able to -- an uninterrupted narrative about what happened. so that is now cemented in the minds of so many americans, and

i think according to what the secretary of state said earlier in the segment, it does not just stop at the secretaries of state that were elected. there are governors that appointee other secretaries of state that are not locked, of there are individuals within the bureaucracy that may or may not be public facing that share the same views. so, the democrats have to continue to talk about the ever vigilance to pushback at every level of government, throughout the bureaucracy. they've done a very good job up until now bringing to light nationally. people are voting on that issue, but we still need to be talking about it one year, two years and. in >> the way that i see, it personally, is that two years ago we had zero election deniers in any position of power. two years later, we had 62%. who knows where the trend is going to be in 2024 because that will be the deciding vote whether they rescind or they go

down or they go up an increase. basil ruth, stick around we'll talk you more in the hour. coming up, biden might notch some legislative victories even in a divided congress. a divided congress. to make medicare easy... even easier than those dances your grandkids love doing with you. ok, i got it. (laughs) start medicare shopping today with walgreens find rx coverage. ♪♪ plus, find low-cost copays. when you need to talk medicare. walgreens, is here. ♪♪ ♪♪ walgreens. (vo) after fifteen years of the share the love event, subaru and our retailers have donated over ♪♪ two hundred and fifty million dollars to charity. in fact, subaru is the largest corporate donor to the aspca... ...and the national park foundation. and the largest automotive donor to meals on wheels...

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big government is over for the moment, now that gop has won control of the house, the president will have to work with republicans to get anything done. as political point out, rather than driving the economic policy agenda on capitol hill, biden will be along with the ride forced grapple with issues that republicans care about or at least settle for gridlock. but there is one political figure who could help biden's chances of governing in this divided congress, donald trump. according to a new analysis from the new york times, trump preferred candidates underperformed other gop candidates in the midterms by about five percentage points. in other words, trump dragged down his chosen candidates, making them likelier to lose

their races. that is the reason why, in part, georgia republicans were urging trump to avoid announcing his presidential bid until after the georgia runoff for fear that he would hurt herschel walker's chances. so what can president biden learn from these midterm results as a government over the next two years, and how can he work with moderate republicans to get them on board with his agenda? who better to ask and democratic longest men elect in a while. he defeated republican steve chabot in ohio's first congressional district. it is great to have you with us, congressman, let me ask you what do you think president biden will be able to accomplish in the next two years in this now divided congress? >> well thank you for having me and i hope a lot. we are, as freshman coming in, with high expectation and a

mandate from voters to get as much done as a humanly possible. to protect our democracy, reform it, make it better, to do whatever we can to codified roe and fix this broken him on economy, which has been broken for a long time. so my hope is that there is a majority, a bipartisan majority that will expand the child tax credit and expand it to millions of families can pay the bills, which we desperately need. and that there will be bipartisan support for election reform, clearly voters do not want this big lie extremism, the chaos that come with it. a whole host of other things that we have to get done, but that is going to require from the president, but a majority of folks in congress. republicans and democrats working. together >> you i listed, as i mentioned a 13 term incumbent

in ohio's first district. what do you learn from your win that will help you in congress and in future elections? >> >> yeah, it is great question, this idea of election denial and the big lie is just not sitting well with voters and four republicans nationally who are deciding whether or not to run away from trump, which they should. this is a cautionary tale and there are many like it where the chaos and extremism caught up with congressman -- who had been with their decades. he is supporting the big lie, we have three debates in each debate he talked about this fraudulent election in pennsylvania, which is so dangerous to undermine our democracy with that kind of

rhetoric. voters said that we are not going to do that, and what i took away from it was that people want normal, calm, steady honest leadership. folks who are just going to go up there and get to work on the issues that matter most to them. so, i hope that is what we see as a turning of the page in american politics where the heat gets turned down, folks walk away from these extreme views, and they just get to work. >> you said in a recent political podcast that you are not going to be successful if you are going to be a big lie, antichoice extremist. expand on that. >> yeah, i think that if you are in a competitive place, if it is a competitive congressional district, a competitive state, i do not think that you are going to be successful with voters if you embrace the big lie and that chaos or this anti choice

extremism of abortion bans without exceptions, you are not going to win. voters do not want that, it is democrats, a lot of independents, and a growing number of republicans who do not want that. so, people believe in our democracy, they want us to protect it, they want the freedom to, and you're going to see this play out in ohio where we are starting to see immediately our legislature and the secretary of state propose a whole host of things to undermine democracy here. voter suppression, they're going to try to re-gerrymander these maps of races they've lost, they're going to try to make it harder for people who go to the ballot. it is suggesting to the voters that there is only one pro democracy party left in america, certainly in ohio. and that is a scary proposition. >> speaking of ohio for a second, democratic just

announced his 2024 reelection bid. do you think he could win after tim ryan losing to j.d.? vance >> yeah absolutely. he is an incredible leader, he has done -- he is delivered and i think that people have gotten to know senator brown in a very meaningful way over the years. he is home, and in communities getting work done and that matters. i will say that in a year where they expect tens of marilyn's of dollars against him, tim ryan got 48% of the vote. and so ohio -- >> and got the broader help of the democratic party across the country. >> i was going to ask you quickly, because i wanted to get your thoughts as you go into congress.

what are you hoping to accomplish in your first term in congress? what would be some big wins for you? >> i would love to be part of a coalition that restores the child tax credit. expands it so that millions of americans, including tens of thousands of folks in my district are able to pay their bills. i want to be part of an effort to up the investment that we've made in police and fire departments across the country because public safety is a serious issue. tackle gun violence, my hope is that there is a bipartisan majority that is going to pass common sense gun reform legislation on top of what was passed, and make it harder for folks like the individual in colorado, who had a background. he should native never of had that weapon. there are some legislative priorities, but i want to show folks here at home what it is

like to have a congressman networks just for them. in d.c., only voting for the issues that they care about, and then immediately returning home every week to work on the issues that matter most to folks here. we haven't had that, and especially in the minority, that's going to be a big priority. >> congressman elect landsman, thank you for your time. we look forward to speaking with you regularly on this program, whatever you'd want to join us on a sunday night, you've got the right spot. all right, thank you. >> thank you for having me. >> let's bring back my panel, you heard it there. ruth, i will start with you. you have the new york times dragging down, saying that trump is dragging down republicans that he endorsed in the midterm cycle. we heard the congressman elect that if you're running on the big lie or abortion, it's not going to work for you. do you think that this is going to be an issue going forward in 2024, that the big lie and the motivating factors --

as a result of roe v. wade being overturned will continue to 2024? >> it can be, and it would be true democracy if voters preferences are supplying a corrective to republican extremism. that said, i do see the gop as a party that has exited from bipartisan governments. it's an autocratic party, and frankly the reason that some of them are this evolving trump, is that he has become a liability for them to pursue their autocratic goals. perhaps they will embrace a more, quote, disciplined extremists like rhonda scientists who would never say something as incautious as i could stand on fifth avenue and shoot somebody. trump said the quiet part allowed, and is now being punished for that. we should not think that the gop is going to become as a

whole, the moderate party. >> i've always warned that somebody like ron desantis might be more political savvy than donald trump, who as you said, would say the loud -- or the quiet part out loud. the policies are not necessarily different, as we've seen with ron desantis, willing to transport migrants from the border for political stance, and political theater. georgia republicans want trump to hold off on his presidential announcement. they do not have confidence that the announcement will help herschel walker. do you think that it could hurt herschel walker's chances in the senate runoff that he is running for president. >> i think that it could, but i also caution voters. raphael warnock is a part of my fraternity, and we were on a call trying to rally people within a country, and certainly georgia, to not stay on their haunches, and make sure that they are fully engaged in this race. the reality, in my view, is

that a lot of these republican voters are not voting for the person, their voting as though they were in parliamentary elections. it's the agenda that they're voting for, the person is just the vessel. they can overlook things that over other voters wouldn't overlook, like personality, his ability to talk about policy. and the speeches that herschel walker has made throughout the entire campaign seem to be incomprehensible. but that's not the point with those voters. they just want somebody in there to answer their agenda. i do think that the trump effect could bring out and motivate more vote for democrats to come out for this runoff. they cannot take it likely, because it's about the agenda, the person. >> please stick around, we've got a lot more to discuss. up next, a major new york times report says that this year's early leak of the supreme court's decision to overturn roe v. wade was not the first

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bombshell allegation involving the supreme court and a 2014 ruling on reproductive rights. the new york times reports that reverend rob shank, an anti abortion leader, says that he was tipped off about the outcome of the landmark hobby lobby contraception and liberty case weeks before it announced. he used to run an evangelical nonprofit in washington, says that he learned about the hobby lobby meeting because he had worked for years to exploit the courts permeability. he gained access through faith, through favors traded with gatekeepers and through wealthy donors to his organization. abortion opponents who he called stealth missionaries. in 2014, two of his star donors shared a meal with justice alito and his wife. the next day, the times reports that one of those donors called

shank and said that he had written a majority opinion, and that the case would be decided in the favor of hobby lobby. a month later, that exact decision was resulted to the public. msnbc's not confirmed this reporting. justice alito denies the allegation that they leaked information about forthcoming decisions. and the evidence about the breach has gaps. the report is likely to cast and greater shadow on this court. just months after the draft ruling, the decision to overturn roe v. wade also week, a decision coincidentally which was written by justice alito. my panel is back with me. basil, what can we make of the fact that a supreme court justice is having dinner with donors that could influence major decisions? >> the two words that stared at me for the excerpt of that article was faith and donations. the reason that stands out to me is that faith is what essentially was driving the

work that was being done. they were on this mission to change not only the court, but to really change national policy. they were on this height mission, using donations as a means of developing infrastructure to implement all of that. my takeaway from this is that yes, i assumed that this happens all the time, quite frankly. for alito to have been at the center of this now, and he was such a leading voice when the dobbs decision was leaked, it's part of the hypocrisy of the court. what we are seeing now, you can add that to justice thomas's behavior. not recusing himself of so many things that he should've. it leads to questions about how much we can take this seriously. >> ruth, what does this do to the public's trust in the supreme court? the polls consistently show

that the american public confidence in the supreme court, or its impartiality is declining, and declining pretty rapidly over the last couple of years. >> the court has shown itself to be the opposite of impartial. it has become recently a rather rogue entity, a politicized entity. that is, of course, if you look at many of the people there, they are highly partisan, and that is part of weakening democracy where you put aside institutions. i keep thinking, once a week i think of this fact the justice thomas, right when his wife was in the news for conspiring to be sympathetic to overthrowing the election then he was considering making it easier to sue media companies. that is exactly this kind of thing that goes on.

as for this case, it was the india delicate christians. let's never forget the very powerful force of the federalist society and leonard leo. these are extreme catholics that are also working, like william barr to damage the separation of church and state. this has been fundamental for our democracy. >> going off of this new york times report, nine court members in this case knew something that they weren't supposed to, and they spread the word. what are the himars here for having prior knowledge of a decision? >> i think it's just as you said. you as an american, a voter, believe that there is integrity in this process. there is no hidden agenda, that the law is the law and these judges are going to read that in a way that maybe some function of their beliefs and influences. at least they will do it in an impartial way, and there is some sort of broader agenda. the reality is, we don't know

that. we cannot be clear about that anymore. the concern has been, and all of us did talk about elections, and say that elections matter, it's because of situations like this. the court has changed now for a generation. i cannot imagine that this is the last time we will be hearing about the dobbs decision being leaked, scales perhaps being tipped in one way or another, or justices not refusing themselves of situations where they absolutely should. this is going to be troubling for america, for at least a generation. >> ruth, this reverend spoke on a podcast after the dobbs decision, overturning roe v. wade. he said, quote, i don't think that we would've gotten a decision as is worded from justice alito without the work that we did. what does that say about about how --

and how they think that they can influence the court. >> it is this kind of porous nurse, and here we have another example of the role of dark money in politics. between elections and -- i mean, if you are somebody that wants to wreck democracy, one of the things that you want to do is ruined citizens trust in institutions. the dobbs decision has sparked a huge thing across the nation of people -- and we saw the effect in the midterm elections. the court, it has backfired as well. >> ruth, basil, thank you to the both of you for joining us this evening. very appreciated, your since insights, as always. coming up at the top of the hour, a documentary that could not be more timely. msnbc films presents split screen, a look at how we got to this political point, in an extremely divided america.

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from the network america relies on. >> two years ago this month,

donald trump lost the 2020 presidential election to joe biden. he then embarked on a nefarious mission to delegitimized the results and overturn his loss with unproven claims of voter fraud. of course, conservative media outlets like fox, newsmax, one american news network had no problem amplifying those election lies. lies that as we know, culminated in the capital insurrection. january 6th could not have happened if trump's lies have been repeated on those platforms. how did we get to that point? an insurrection could actually take place, and how can we course correct from here on out. that's the subject of the new msnbc documentary split screen,

which airs after this program tonight. and which i, myself took a part in. january 6th was the result of more just trump lies, it was the result of years of growing polarization, and spreading disinformation. parts of which columbia journalism school jelani cobb argues date back to barack obama's 2008 presidential win. >> if there is anybody out there who still questions the power of our democracy, tonight is your answer. >> many americans felt like they had never been more optimistic about the feature of the country then the night that barack obama was elected. >> i can't believe it! >> so help you god? >> so help me god. >> congratulations, mister president. >> not only have we never seen a black presidential candidate, we had only seen a limited

number of black candidates win in statewide races. a very small number one in senate races. and so there was not a lot of reason to suspect that this would happen. and then all of a sudden, it happened. >> this former slave holding republic has demonstrated to the world beyond question its commitment to democracy -- >> we started hearing irresponsibly exuberant statements like, we are a post racial society. >> the politics of racial grievance died tonight. >> in the face of that, we started hearing people kind of whispering, this won't go over well. it is going to be a backlash to this. >> and professor jelani cobb joins us after the break. don't go anywhere. nywhere. s find rx coverage is here to make medicare easy... even easier than those dances your grandkids love doing with you. ok, i got it. (laughs)

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the msnbc documentary, split screen, which airs tonight after this show at 10 pm eastern. i'm joined now by jelani cobb, the dean of the columbia journalism school and msnbc contributor who is also featured in a split screen. dean, it's great to have you. i want to play -- how much of where we are now is because of what happened when barack obama was elected in 2008? >> there is a huge portion of it. even if we only think about the disinformation one point oh, which was -- that comes directly out of the fact that barack obama had been elected president. the public is introduced to donald trump as a political or quasi-political figure at that point, with him advocating the idea that barack obama was not born in the united states. that was at the very outset.

he saw the palate ability of that, and the marketability of that kind of completely fact free conspiratorial argument that played on elements of racism and xenophobic. that became a blueprint for what he did in 2016. >> what other points, beyond obama's win in recent years do you think has most contributed to this polarization? >> there is a lot. i think that there are elements that were present. joseph mccarthy, for whom we call mccarthy's. most of the things that we call mccarthy-ism preceded joe mccarthy. the same can be called about trumpism. the conspiracy theories around immigration, the rise of social media and his ability to undermine traditional media,

some of which brought good reforms and benefits. in other instances, it made it possible to spread the rampant disinformation that was happening prior to 2016. the decline interest in traditional media that happens at the same time, the cratering of local news. there is a whole array -- to use the cliché, a perfect storm of things that happen in councillor that allow us to get into the kind of quagmire that we find ourselves in now. >> it's been almost two years since january the 6th. i myself am a critic of the media and how it has covered january 6th, and other instances of this extreme polarization, sometimes falling into the -- i think i got that right. how do you see the media over the past two years? are they getting it, right or are they getting better at that coverage? >> in some ways, yes, and in some ways, no.

one of the things that we saw was that the crisis prompted the media to reevaluate basic presumptions about news and how news operates. we did not have readily available answers for what you do when somebody is extremely vindication. do you call lies lies? do you call overtly racist actions and words racist? what do you do with a person that is acting in bad faith? he is only getting misinformation. do you allow that person on a network or station? or on a podcast? what other guidelines are around that, how do you handle those things? all of these things which we had kind of a set of presumptions about. those presumptions ended up being insufficient. what has really happened over the course of the past five or six years is -- has been that the media has

been learning on the fly about these things. coming to different conclusions about it. in some institutions better than others, quite frankly. and so it has really been a mixed bag. >> do you think that we are prepared -- is the media prepared for 2024, especially when you see what is happening on a place like twitter. elon musk unbanning donald trump and other bad actors on twitter, in this arbitrary awareness now that he owns twitter. >> by in large, no. i'm really concerned about that to be honest. the nightmare scenario is what you do -- we didn't have this as an issue in the midterms, thankfully. but what do you do if a candidate refuses to concede, and says that they won? what do you do in a real disaster scenario where state legislatures have gone along with false claims that a candidate won when they lost? how do you report around that? do you defer to simply the

republicans saying that they won, democrats say that they won? or do you respond to what the evidence actually point to? there is a lot of reasons to be uneasy about how media would handle a potential crisis moment like that. >> i have to ask you really quickly, are you optimistic with the students that you are seeing at the journalism school? >> extremely. extremely. >> that is very reassuring. >> i will say very clearly, i see a lot of young people who have dedicated to the work of democracy as it relates to journalism, and that is one of the best things about my career. >> i have to say, we saw a little bit of that during the midterm elections, midterm saw young people turn out. if they continue to turn out, the future is bright. professor and dean, jelani cobb, thank you for joining us. the documentary is called split screen, it is going to air next after this program. don't go anywhere, we are back in just a moment. in just a moment coaxed with a spoon on the fluffiest french toast with red currants on top

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