tv Katy Tur Reports MSNBC November 21, 2022 11:00am-12:00pm PST
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goods to with be with you. i'm katy tur. we expect to get new details about the club shooting at any moment now and there are unanswered questions, some big ones, including motive. official -- have not yet declared if the shooting is a hate crime and whether the suspect was the same person who was arrested last year for a bomb threat that evacuated an entire neighborhood. if he is the same person, we have ample reason to believe that he is, since he has the same name and the same birth date, colorado police will no
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doubt be asked and have to answer why the suspect was not caught in the state's red flag law. we're also waiting for more on the victims, at least 25 people are injured, and five are dead, including ashley paugh, who was in colorado springs on a day trip with friends. she leaves behind her husband and 11-year-old daughter seen here. also 28-year-old daniel aston a bar tender at the club and his mother sabrina spoke this morning. >> it is a nightmare that you can't wake up from. i keep thinking, you know, it's a mistake, there's been a mistake, and that he's really alive. i, you know, he was such a, he lit up a room, you know, that's an old expression but he really did. always smiling. always happy. and silly.
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like everybody liked to see him because he brought up the room, you know, he would lift them up. >> got to be the worst moment of her life. joining me from colorado springs is nbc news correspondent priscilla thompson and also with me is nbc news senior reporter ben collins. priscilla, you're, there we are expecting to get some new details today from officials, and i think your audio is good now, what are you hearing, what is the latest? are they any closer to declaring whether this is a hate crime? >> reporter: yes, it appears that is the direction we're headed in, they announced those charges of homicide and five hate crime charges and still you have people coming here to this memorial, and i want to actually bring in some of the folks that i'm here with to get their reaction, i'm here with avery hickenbocker, and you're a trans-male and stephanie, his mom and how are you doing and
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how are you processing all of this. >> struggling to process what happened and struggling to process why, but still, but still very dreadful that it happened, and very angry. >> what about for you? >> i'm just angry that this keeps happening. i don't know why it keeps happening, knowing that i'm raising my children, in this day and age, especially having a trans-male child, and how do protect him, and what can i do to protect him, and how can i get the word out, whom do i need to speak to, how do we stop this, why does it keep happening? people are going to remember this for a while, it has made national news, worldwide news, but then they're going to forget. all of these flowers are going to be here for a while and then thrown away, and then it will happen again. so what can we do as a human race, what can we do as people, as a nation, to stop this madness?
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it's got to stop. now i'm just so angry, i know so many people, family members, so many children, that my kids know, who are part of this community, and i'm just done. what do we need to do? what can we do? how can we be heard? it is all about politics and i'm tired of it. i'm tired of it. >> and we are now learning that that suspected shooter is going to face five first-degree murder charges and five hate crime charges. >> good. thank god. everybody is saying they don't know. yes, it is probably pre-meditated. for people who do this kind of stuff, they don't automatically wake up one day and say i'm going to go shoot up this place. he knew what he was going to do. he knew what weapons he was going to use. he targeted this place. the only safe space for the lbgtq community to come. the only one in town. but it's not just for that community, it's for everybody.
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it doesn't matter if our, your sexual orientation, everybody comes here and this safe space is no longer a safe space but i'm hoping it will be because there are so many people who need it. >> do you think it will be a safe place, again? >> averi, do you feel safe? >> knowing what happened, not really, but i am hoping that eventually it will become a safe space once again. >> and my last question, as you mentioned, these flowers will go away, people will move on, how does this community move forward? >> we just don't forget, we have the community, we have the community, and as long as people remember and voices are still heard, and it is in the news, but it will go away and lead to another story but we don't forget columbine, and would don't forget other shootings.
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and we don't forget. we don't forget 9/11. but people still need help remembering. and so i'm hoping the people that remember and don't forget will be able to educate those people and bring them back saying here, this is what happened. it can't happen again, and what can we do so as long as some people don't forget, it will never be forgotten. >> thank you very much for sharing. and there you have, it katy, remember and don't forget and so many people that i have spoken to here have been saying for the past 24 hours, yes, this was a hate crime, and so to finally hear that those charges have been filed, people are happy about that, but they're still saying this should have never happened in the first place, and what can we do to prevent something like this from happening in the future. katy? >> never forget but also never let it happen again. and let's talk about what's been out there surrounding this attack, what's been out there and on the rise recently, there's been a rise, and ben,
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anti-or hate crimes in this country, and anti-semitism crimes, too, we're talking about hate in general, but focusing on, this what have you been seeing online in the lead-up to this. >> i think the most important thing that people have to understand about this, it cannot be taken in a vacuum. there is a years long now campaign, by members of the far right, demonize trans-people, specifically to call them demons, they call them goblins, they call them, on these spaces, they are not in favor of these people existing, trans-people, and they scour the internet for ways in which they think that trans-people are hurting children -- >> what is so awful about it, just to add to this, it is such a small group of people, and it is a tiny community. >> yes. >> and the hate out there, and the attacks make it seem like this is, you know, this is a
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giant group of people who they say are threatening your lives, it is a small tiny group of people who are just trying to live. >> they're trying to live. and they're also, you know, their efforts to let people know that they're human beings, that if you pinch them, they feel pain, right, like drag queen story hour is the big thing, there was going to be a drag brunch the next day at club two, and that's a way to get kids to say hey, look, it's a person, it doesn't necessarily look like the people that you see every day, at the store or whatever, but these are real people, with lives and emotion, they like the same stories that you do, they're nothing sexualized about it but every time there is one, the proud boys show up because there is an account on the internet on tiktok pushed by tucker carlson and the babylon bee and the far right and very much aligned with the guy who just bought the pipe, elon musk and they push the hatred and the proud boys show up, they show up
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to scare the kid, and all they're trying to do is to remind you, all of those events try to do, to remind you that they're human beings, too. >> when this stuff happens, you're able to so often find a paper trail, if you will, about the suspect. what have we learned about this suspect? >> that's the thing. not much about this suspect. we've been, trust me, looking all around for it. so if this person has an online identity, it might not be tied to that person's name. that is just the way it goes now who do these types of things, it is much harder but we can tell the fact that there are hate crimes charges here, this is not -- there is probably more to the story. >> and we're waiting for more details. we do expect to get some new information, any moment now, there's going to be a news conference at 5:00 today, and it was originally scheduled for right now, they pushed it back, but we were told we would get a handout with some more information. so we're waiting on that. ben colin, thank you very much.
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priscilla thompson, thank you as well. thank you for that interview with those women who came to pay their respects. joining us is the your vive of the nightclub shooting in florida, orlando tores, thank you for being here. >> thank you for having me. >> how are you feeling right now? >> heart broken. depressed. again, innocent lives taken away due to somebody's beliefs, which is, you know, unbelievable that no matter what beliefs they have against religion, sexual orientation, whatever ethnic, they have to take innocent lives into their own hand force no reason. these people, they have done nothing to them personally, and this anger of them reaching out, to kill as many lives as they can, just to prove a point and their beliefs, i never understand it. >> what's it been like? has the environment changed? has the atmosphere changed out there, since the shooting at
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pulse in orlando? >> it's been good. i mean we, our community sticks together, we have centers that always looking out for us, the situation that had occurred in colorado, they offered anybody who needs counseling, therapy, you know, the community is very supportive there, and we really don't have, you know, a community that is against what our sexual orientation or with lbgtq, it is pretty lax here, and especially after the tragic shooting in 2016, we have gotten a lot of love and respect out there, and it is just unfortunate we can't speak for every town in the united states. >> what is your message to those who don't accept you, who say that you're different, or say that you're grooming people, what is your response to the hate and the division that is being seeded by some of our lawmakers but also online?
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>> as we express, love, not hate, you know, we are all god's children, we all hurt, we all believe, we're human beings, you know, and it's just, at the should not take action against what our doings are, what our beliefs, are because we don't take it upon them. and it is not like they're going to do that against us in the community and it is not only the lbgtq community, it is today's world unfortunately, because there are a lot of shootings as well, it is heart breaking that we're all human and why treat us like we're demon, we are bad people, we are doing wrong to others, no, we are just loving people, love to be happy, we welcome everybody, no matter what sexual gender you are, to come into our clubs, you know, spread love, and enjoy, enjoy the company, and dance, have a great time. but it's just, you can't get through to everybody, unfortunately. >> orlando, thank you very much for joining us today, and i know it must have been hard to wake
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up to this news over the weekend. >> yes. >> especially after what we've experienced. thank you. >> thank you. my pleasure. and my community, we here at pulse, we are supporting colorado and the club there, and to stay strong and keep dancing don't. let them win. because if you stop, they win. so just keep doing what you're doing and enjoy life. >> i like that. stay strong and keep dancing. that's a good message. orlando, thank you. and joining me now is colorado house majority leader state representative danaea escar, the co-founder of the colorado lbgtq legislative caucus. also with me is the ceo and president of glad, sara kate ellis. ladies, thank you for being here. let's talk about colorado, representative, and tell me why do you think this happened in colorado springs? >> i think a lot of us are scratching our head, wanting to
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know the answer to, that but all i can continue to go back to and what my friends and colleagues continue to go back to is the rhetoric, the awful visceral rhetoric that has been spread for years, quite frankly, in this community, but also especially a lot lately in the past election that we had, you know, just a few days ago, even, there was so much hate and visceral spread about our lbgtq communities, especially our trans-community, that i can't say that didn't have an impact on us. >> there has been a lot made about some of colorado's elected leaders and lauren boebert in particular who almost lost her race, eeked out a win to keep being a representative there and she in the past has, you know, people say targeted the lbgtq community unfairly. she's tweeted out today her thoughts and prayers are with the families and the victims in this violent incident, but she's been called a hypocrite and part
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of the problem in response. what is the reaction in colorado? what's the reaction, the general reaction to this? and is there a sense that, that this can be stopped? >> you know, i think the initial reaction is shock. but we're also not surprised that this happened. this again, it has been pushed by a party here in the state of colorado to continue to demonize our communities, and to continue to make us less human than any other community. and the rhetoric that has been spewed by so many folks on the right, especially leading up to an election, using that as a platform, i think they didn't realize how much, what they were saying were going to fall on people's ears and how much people were going to take that as freedom to be evil, and freedom to do and say what they wanted to say, it's just, it's been heart-breaking to be honest you with, we continue to see these tragedies here in
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colorado, and i know that our state legislature has worked really hard when it comes to gun safety measures, but this is also a conversation about being responsible, as an elected official, you have a responsibility, you're representing constituents but you're also a public figure and think about what you say and what impact that's going to have. >> so the authorities are calling it a biased motivated crime, that's the term they're using, that the charges reflect that and when you go to the center for hate and extremism at the university of california, the california state university, san bernardino, they say that attacks against the lbgtq community are up 51%. and let me put that graphic back up on the screen. compared to last year. 51%. compared to last year. sara, do you know why there's been such a spike? >> absolutely. i think there's two things that's driving it. one is that rhetoric does lead
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to violence and these elected officials are using the lbgtq community as we've been saying, as a political foot ball and they have been using us to build their careers and their profiles by demonizing us, dehumanizing us, around hate and rhetoric. and then second to that, is the social media platforms, facebook, instagram, youtube, twitter, tiktok, where people can organize their hate and amplify. it and they're allowed to do that, because the social media companies are profiting off of it. it makes them money. and here, we have no intervention on that. there is no accountability from the social media companies. so you have a political environment that drives division, that drives hate, and builds careers on that, and lauren boebert is a great example of that, so she can take her thoughts and prayers and
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just stop talking about our community. that would be the greatest answer to our prayers is if she left us alone, because she drives this. desantis drives this. and then you couple that with the social media platforms and you end up with what happens on saturday night, and i am so frustrated, that's what you're hearing from me, because we have been saying this, as movement leaders for the past year, that this is going to end deadly, and now it has. and i want to see who is standing up for us now. >> so what do you do about that? what do you do about all of the hate that you see on social media that's spread and is allowed to spread? how do you fight against that? >> well, there's two things that we're doing here at glaad, one is that we have an annual report that we started a year ago, all of the five major platforms, they all failed for lbgtq safety online, so they have a lot of correcting to do.
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we've given them the road map and they're making changes, they're making changes not fast enough, they have the tools and they can do it. secondly, i think the government needs to step in, and help with social media accountability. this is the wild, wild west. and nobody's helping with it. and i think that the government needs to, they've given them a license to do whatever they want, and we need to pull that license back a little, and hold them accountable for organizing hate online that drives real life harm. >> i just want to say before we go that one of the reasons why this was not worse, i mean this man allegedly walked into the club with a long gun, was able to kill five people, and jury 25 others in a matter of minutes before the authorities got there and they got there in a matter of minutes, because of two people at the bar who were able to get him to the ground, someone took his gun, one of his guns and hit him in the head of it and they were able to subdue
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the suspect and that's why it was not more deadly. again, you had a, you know, one of the, one of the weapons that we keep talking about, one of those ar-15-style weapons that can do a lot of damage, kill a lot of people in a very short amount of time. no matter how quickly the cops are able to respond. ladies, thank you very much for joining us. i'm sorry it had to be on such a terrible subject. and coming up, after the break, we're going to switch gears, talk about the holidays and travel. and what to expect when you get on the roads and go to the airports. it's a mess out there. donald who? a bunch of republicans with their eyes on the white house gathered in las vegas over the weekend and what they said about the former president. plus, what and who house republicans said they will investigate come january? downy s for my sheets and towels. but did you know downy provides 7 benefits for your clothes, like making them softer and fresher. plus, downy fights fading and stretching.
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about to hit the roads. aaa anticipates nearly 48.7 million americans will be driving and tsa says 2.5 million people a day could be flying through this weekend. but just because travel is back to its pre-pandemic self, well, that doesn't mean the travel industry is. joining me now from miami international airport is nbc's sam -- i was on an airplane yesterday and the lines were packed, the lounges were packed, the airline was packed, everything was packed, and it felt like there wasn't enough staff to go around. what should people expect as they head to the airports and on the road? >> that is seen as a common theme here. >> yes. >> packed is the theme. yes, so i guess i would tell you, look, the situation is infinitely better than earlier in the year from memorial day for example when it was like travel apocalypse and delays and
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cancelations left and right. it is calm and smooth in miami, and a couple of cancellations, you widen the scope, and katy, nationally, 1500 or so delays so far food, about 60 cancellations, and like a typical day, and what the airlines have done is taken on fewer flights than we saw earlier in the year, specifically the reason that you just mentioned, and they don't have the staffing, and they've added more pilots, so the goal is, knock on wood, that thanksgiving is going to go a little bit smoother. and here are the high volume period if you're flying. tuesday, no doubt, and then wednesday, the night before, they are the busiest. then sunday on the return. so obviously, it's monday right now, it is a steady stream here at the ailment and this is where you want to go. it is the sweet spot. as far as those who are driving, 49 million people driving, the most congested periods wednesday 11:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. and then on thursday, thanksgiving day from 11:00 a.m. to 3:00 p.m. and you want to try to work in and around those times. if you're flying, some sage words here.
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do not check your bag if you can avoid. it here is why. an explanation. >> you have the ability to avoid checking a bag, it's going to make your travel day go much smoother. for a few reasons. first, you do not have to worry about waiting in line to check your bag. and there can often be really long lines over thanksgiving week. second, you're not at risk of that bag getting lost or delayed or anything like that in transit. and third, if your flight does ultimately get canceled or you miss your connection, it's going to be far easier to get rebooked if the airline doesn't have to also try to find your checked luggage in the belly of one airplane and switch it to the belly of another airplane. >> and katy, you know, it is true that air fares are up, and a lot of people are certainly experiencing that right now about, 40% increase year over year, hotels are up, car rentals up, and that's just the reality of the situation right now, and
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however, the good news is that we warned you about how to prepare and to try to get ahead of things and hopefully get where you need to be. so far, things are looking pretty soon. >> and hopefully your work schedule allows you to get on the road or in the air and not a peak moment. and if you're traveling, sam you know this, because you're on the road all the time, never, ever check a bag, two pairs of pants, four sweaters, muflt scarves, one jacket, one extra pair of shoes. that's all you need. >> it sounds like you have a formula. >> i do have a formula. >> i need to follow your steps on that. >> you're nine feet tall so folding up your stuff might be a little harder for you than it is for me. sam, thank you very much. all right, turning to another terrible story, we're following breaking news out of massachusetts, at least one person is dead, and 16 more are injured after a car drove into an apple store in plymouth county, just south of boston. according to the district attorney there, a dark-colored
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suv drove into the store at speed breaking through the glass window and striking multiple people. we're following this, and they're going to bring you more details as we get them. sad to bring you another awful story. coming up though, the january 6th committee is about to wrap. what else it will reveal in its final report. which they're writing right now. and they used to call him boss but now all but calling him a loser. what the gop hopefuls and did not say about donald trump in las vegas over the weekend. nd happy holidays, mr. scrooge! (scrooge) i can barely get reception outside ye olde towne center! (cecily) you need a better network. 'tis the season to switch to verizon. (scrooge) 'tis? (cecily) 'tis! you get a free 5g phone when you do. (scrooge) free phone! (cecily) plus verizon gives you another great gift! a tablet, a smartwatch, earbuds... (scrooge) well the more gifts the merrier! for me. (cecily) oh scrooge. (vo) only verizon gives you a free 5g phone. and another gift, like a tablet, smartwatch, and earbuds. all on us. (scrooge) wow!
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asthma, or smoking. even if symptoms feel mild, these factors can increase your risk of covid-19 turning severe. so, if you're at high risk and test positive, don't wait. ask your healthcare provider right away if an authorized oral treatment is right for you. times have changed. as little as three weeks ago, just three week, and it would have been political suicide, considered such, inside the gop to break with donald trump, let alone criticize him in public. now swipes against the former president are all over what could be the 2024 campaign stage. it started in earnest this weekend, at the republican jewish coalition meeting in las vegas and it wasn't just never-trumpers like maryland governor larry hogan, or slighted transition chiefs like former new jersey governor chris
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christie, it was trump cabinet members, cabinet members like cia director and secretary of state mike pompeo, and u.n. ambassador nikki haley. >> saying that we would be winning so much, we get tired of winning. well, i'm sick and tired of our party losing. >> personality and celebrity are just not going to get it done. we can see that. >> we keep losing and losing and losing. and the fact of the matter is, the reason we're losing, is because donald trump has put himself before everybody else. >> a lot of people have asked if i'm going to run for president. now that the midterms are over, i'll look at it in a serious way. >> well, now, while nikki haley doesn't explicitly go after donald trump there, the fact that she would even flirt with announcing after donald trump already announced is certainly a big 180 for her. joining me now is "washington
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post" political reporter, josh, they smell blood in the water, but donald trump appeared on the stage as well and he did it virtually and he got a standing ovation and a big roar from the crowd, is he might be weakened, but is it right to count him out? >> yeah, i don't think i would be counting him out yet. i mean what you saw really this weekend was some ambition from folks who want to take them on, they want to take his fame on, they want to diminish him and make him not the republican nominee in 2024. there is certainly more and more folks who are doing that in the republican party, as you've said, it is not much of a political suicide mission right now. it seems to be critical of him, and you know, politics are ephemeral, and there have been some moments in the past where the former president has come under attacks, scathing attacks from his party or some in his party, i don't know that it has been quite as much as it is right now, and it certainly seems like there are folks who
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have since the first time in a few years, they saw the weakness and they have this ability to control the republican party and dominate everyone else in it. >> the access hollywood tape, they abandoned him and maybe more so now and that was short-live and not to talk about it all like it is normal and a presidential primary fight and it is not because donald trump is a former candidate, and a former president and still inspired the insurrection and still lying about the 020 election, and when you see other republicans going out to try to separate themselves, what does it say to you about the direction of the republican party? is it one that is going to continue to embrace the election lies? >> i mean with the election deniers, you saw some of them lost. so most prominent one, with the
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repupe dation and that's the argument you're hearing from the republicans, those who look back at 2020 and make it about denying the last election ops who are really former president trump and not having success and they need to win over suburban voter, and i think the analysis that many who want to challenge former president trump and there are many, and how many do it or not, i guess you'll see, is that by not being able to show up in the election, it shows weakness. chris christie told me, in 2018, lost the midterms, and in 2020, we lost the white house and we lost the seats in georgia and underperformed this time, and he believes the idea is not to attacked former president's policies, most of the voters like his policies and not to attack him, must that he simply cannot win, we will continue to lose if we follow him, a
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pragmatic argument and a moral argument. what we're seeing more and more now are not folks saying, you know, well, i have differences with the former president on foreign policy, or tax policy, or any sort of structural major policy issue, but just saying, we're going to lose if we follow him. he's not winning. he's a loser. that is the argument that they are making. >> it says a lot, that he's a loser, and he's not winning, not to use this word poorly, but trumps, trying to separate yourself from somebody who caused an insurrection. you would think that is the breaking point. josh dawsey, thank you very much. and what is happening in idaho? it has been a week since four university students were found dead in an apartment by campus. but the officials there are still not really saying anything at all. what exactly do they know. and say goodbye to the
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risk factors have an increased risk of serious heart-related events or death with jak inhibitors. it's time to get out in front of eczema. ask your doctor about once-daily cibinqo. the january 6th committee is done with its public hearings, and is now writing the final report. it's happening, just as jack smith, the new special counsel gets up to speed, taking over the justice department case, involving january 6th, and the potential mishandling of classified documents. but smith is going to have to wait for all of the evidence the house committee investigating january 6th has gathered. committee members zoe lofgren says the d.o.j. will have to see what they've done when the public sees what they've done. they're going to get them both at the same time. >> i understand the committee has released documents to the department of justice, is that not the case? >> well, we're not, no, we're,
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we're doing our own investigation. >> right. >> and within a month, the public will have everything that we found. all of the evidence. >> but within a month, that is because that is all the time the committee has left. incoming house oversight chair republican james comber, you see right there, says he has a different investigation in mind, about the guy you see there now, nbc news senior capitol hill correspondent garrett haake joins me now. first, talk to me about the january 6th committee and this report that they're writing, what do we know about it? >> katy, it is meant to be expansive and cover the entire breadth of their investigation. everything from the content that we've seen in the public hearings but also other related security failures and other issues around the capitol leading up to january 6th. it is ultimately, the hearings were such a focus of attention, that it is ultimately the report
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that is the real purpose for this committee. they want to get it done. they want to make legislative recommendations based off of it and we've already had some conversation about things like fixing the electoral counteract, that is the real work product here, and as you've pointed out, they've got got to get it done before the end of this year because this committee is over and done with it when we get into next year and the republican congress takes over. so there is a hard deadline here to finish. and we know the committee was still doing interviews as recently as last week. they have their work cut out for them but members and staff like journalists and college students, pretty deadline-driven folks and crashing this by the end of the year. >> and what do we know about what republicans are planning, republican comer and we're used to jim jord nchb the past congress, and kevin mccarthy talking about kicking some high profile democrats off committee memberships.
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>> a healthy dose of both komer and jim jordan, i think they will be two of the most high profile members of the next congress because they have the gavels in the investigative committees. remember republicans have a very narrow majority in the senate. ne don't have the senate. they don't have the white house. they're not producing the law. they may produce some messaging bill, some legislation but the majority focus is on oversight. and as for mes members who may be kicked off, kevin mccarthy made a campaign promise and he said it since republicans are confirmed to be wins the house and i think we will see it very early in the news congress. >> when you talk about legislation, there is not just the tea party group, in the republican party in the house, or the lauren boeberts, et cetera, a lot of moderates and a lot of moderates who won in blue districts. what are they doing? do they have any voice right now? are they talking to kevin mccarthy about what they need to get done in order to keep their seats in two years?
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>> they absolutely are, katy. i mean look, the challenge here, with the majority this small, the way to think about it is with kevin mccarthy, remember joe manchin, if they want to, they can hold certain things hostage, and they can barge hard to get what they want. traditionally in the house it is big groups that do that. the freedom caucus, or the problem solvers, these big caucuses, and now you're going to see margins so thin, individual members can stick up for their priorities in that way. and you can argue that some of those moderates might have a few more cards to play. because it's possible the things they want are maybe the same kind of things that could pass in the democratic controlled senate and mccarthy has his back against the wall because he has to keep his hard right happy, too. hard to see how anything substantive legislatively will come out of the house this narrowly divided for republicans. >> thank you very much. let's go to former u.s. attorney, university of alabama law professor and msnbc legal analyst, joyce vance, and we
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have her on video as well. let's talk about the january 6th committee. here is what congressman adam kinzinger said about the final report, and the final decision they might make. >> i think he has cut so many deals with bad people, to get to this position, that i think he's not going to be a leader at all and completely hostage to the extreme wings of the republican party, and i frankly don't think he is going to last very long. >> my apologies. that was not the right sound bite. the sound bitd that we're looking for with adam kinzinger, we talked about making a criminal referral, or referrals, regarding january 6th. and it was actually schiff, and schiff said we're in the midst of making a conclusion about that right now. should we make a referral, what kind of referral should we make? so i didn't really get much from that, quite frankly. what is your expectation about what might happen in terms of, a referral, and is it even
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necessary? >> you know, there's a lot of different sorts of equities to balance here, katy, and it's hard for me to not look at it with my prosecutor hat on, because what you don't want is to get a referral from congress that hyper-politicizes this already highly-politicized investigation. d.o.j. folks would probably prefer to not see a referral. they can look at the evidence just like congress can. and draw their own investigative conclusions. but you know, congress and particularly this sub committee has done an enormous amount of work to put this issue front and center for many americans who before the committee commenced its hearings frankly were not this focused on january 6th, did not appreciate the central role that the former president played, both in perpetuating the big lie, and in the events that led to the effort to block congressional certification of the vote itself. so the committee may well wish to establish its place both in history and in the current civic
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discourse, and may view these sorts of referrals as one way of cementing their legacy. >> joyce vance, more questions for, but i have run out of time. i went too long here. thank you very much for joining us. i'm sure we'll have another opportunity to talk about the hunter biden investigation. and coming up next, what has happened in idaho. new details about the crime scene and the 911 call that followed the murder of four university of idaho students.
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the public's help. joining me now from moscow, idaho, is nbc's gyudou short. there are so many questions here. when the story first broke a week ago, wasn't the public told that there was no reason to be concerned for their safety, that it seemed like they knew what happened and they had a suspect, and now a week later, there are all of these unanswered questions, and have we heard from the authorities at all? >> reporter: yes, so we've been hearing from police, and you're absolutely right, it feels like for this community, we feel like exactly where we were on day one of the investigation. no murder suspect. no murder weapon. no motive. now, earlier, we heard the mayor make a statement that this may have been a crime of passion and that really made a lot of family members angry, because it completely discounted what else this murder could be. and so right now, investigators seem to be certain about what happened inside this home, and
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that's where their certainty ends. so what we can tell you is that the two survivors roommates were in the bottom floor here, this is a three-story house, the two others were found above them, and then two more victims found on the top, stabbed to death, some of them in bed, some with defensive wounds and some of them may have been sleeping, but that's pretty much the extent of what officers know at this point. >> what are they doing to help kids feel safe there? >> reporter: well, the university president yesterday, he spoke about possibly making it so that some people could finish this semester remotely and others in person saying some have already left here and made it very clear that they do not want to come back to campus because they don't feel safe. others feel safe when they're around their friends. so they're planning for both eventual ties. >> so confusing and scary gadi schwartz in moscow thank you very much. that will do it for me
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