tonight on "the reidout" -- >> it was a home, not just for the lgbtqia plus. it was for everybody. you know, we were a welcoming community. >> we are learning more about the mass shooting that left five people dead at a welcoming haven for lgbtq people in the heart of colorado's most conservative city. the murders follow months of toxic rhetoric from the right, targeting lgbtq people with words like grooming and genital mutilation. also, samuel alito was indignant over the leak of the dobbs ruling but he's now accused of leaking a previous ruling that

was also highly anticipated by conservatives. >> and in the georgia senate runoff, one former president is being welcomed with open arms while another is told to stay far, far away. can you guess which is which? >> we begin tonight with the horrific tragedy in colorado springs, colorado, where we're learning more about the lives stolen in saturday night's mass shooting at an lgbtq club. the suspected gunman was arrested and faces preliminary charges of five counts of first degree murder and five hate crimes charges. a short time ago, local officials provided an update on those who lost their lives. >> we strive to give the victims the dignity and respect they deserve, as well as shine the light of public attention on the victims. therefore, we are identifying them now. please know that while all of the victims' families have been notified, they are suffering a horrific loss. so i ask everyone who is listening to keep them in your

thoughts and show them the care and heartfelt compassion they deserve. >> among the victims identified by colorado springs police tonight, kelly loving, derrick rump, and raymond vance green. family had already identified daniel aston, a transgender man who worked at the club as a bartender and moved to the area two years ago as one of the deceased. and ashley pagh, who was not a member of the lgbtq community and came with a friend to see a stand-up comedian. 19 others were injured, a toll that could have been higher had two club q patrons not rushed into action. officials identified them as thomas james and richard fearrow. fearrow, a military veteran at the club with his wife and children, told "the new york times" he rushed the gunman and pulled him to the floor and jumped on top of him. he then grabbed the pistol the gunman had with him alongside the rifle he had used in the massacre and hit him in the head until he was subdued. he and a second patron,

presumably james, held the suspect until police arrived. he told the times he went into combat mode, adding that during the ensing fight he yells for other patrons to help him. a man grabbed the rifle and moved it away to safety and a drag dancer stomped on the gunman with her high heels. the suspect identified as anderson lee aldrich remains in custody at a local hospital. he's being held without bond. formal charges have not been filed yet. saturday's violence has devastated colorado springs' small but vibrant lgbtq community. an attack on a loving and inclusive space in an intensely conservative city that's home to several military installations and a longtime mecca for evangelical christians. it's the headquarters of the right wing christian organizations focused on the family and the family research institute. the latter has been identified by the southern poverty law center as an anti-lgbtq hate group. the horror came the night before club q was set to hold an

all-ages drag brunch to celebrate transgender day of rem membrance honoring members of violence amid a spike fueled by anti-trans rhetoric from the right wing media and republican politicians. as the community mourns the victims, jared polis, the first openly gay man elected governor in the united states, ordered flags lowered for five days to honor the victims. as a refuge was torn apart in minutes. >> i saw bodies. blood, shattered glass, broken cups. people covered up in white sheets. now our safe space is gone. how are we supposed to feel safe? >> is there anywhere you feel safe? >> i don't know anymore. >> this is a hard city to live in already. so waking up to something this in your face is just a reminder

of the hate that we live with in this city every day and the love that we need to fight it with. >> joining me now is colorado state representative brianna titone, and barbara mcquade, now a law professor at the university of michigan and an msnbc analyst. i want to get to you, representative, but i want to go to barbara really quick because there's a couple things in that setup i would love for you to clarify. number one, the charges being preliminary, can you explain very quickly why they would be preliminary when what would be the delay? >> frequently, when there's a reactive case like this, the police want to just get some basic charges so that the person can be held and proceed to court without delay. they certainly don't want to release him, and there has to be a pending charge to be able to hold somebody in custody. but a prosecutor will want to investigate the case a little bit further to make sure these are the charges that he or she

does indeed want to pursue. so i imagine that at some point either these identical charges will be formally charged, not preliminarily, but in more formal charge. or perhaps additional charges may be filed if they determine, for example, that the gunman was prohibited from possessing weapons because of a prior felony conviction or something like that, there could be additional charges. this is pending further investigation so that they can get their arms around all of the important facts here. >> and why no mugshot yet, do you think? >> well, there has been a push in the government, certainly in the federal government, not to circulate mugshots because of the presumption of innocence that is afforded to everyone who is accused of a crime. i know when we have reprehensible crimes like this, we have an instinct to want the person to be convicted immediately, but every person is entitled to due process and a fair trial.

so there is a sense that when you publish a mugshot, it could taint a jury pool because oftentimes the person is shown in prison garb or, you know, with bruises and cuts and the like. that can make the person look, quote, like a criminal. so sometimes those are held back at least for a while so that the jury pool is not tainted. >> we know in this case, this man was beaten with his own gun by one of the patrons, a heroic patron that stopped him from killing more people. let me go to you, state representative, and i hope i'm pronouncing your name right, and if i'm not, please correct me. you're a history maker in the state of colorado as the first openly trans legislator. you're representing the district 27, a place i know well, jefferson county, and you're going to be the first transgender lawmaker in leadership. i imagine that this crime feels very personal to you, so i'm going to let you talk.

how are you feeling today, how is the community feeling today? >> yeah, thanks for having me on, for being able to talk about this. you know, this was a complete shock to so many of us. when i woke up yesterday morning, it was just an influx of communications coming in to me about what had happened and what was continuing to go on, and what we could do and how do we respond, and just being from jefferson county, not being from colorado springs, there wasn't a lot that i could immediately do, but a lot of my colleagues who are representing that area did a very good job of being there for the community as well as the city council and even the majority -- the minority leader and the assistant minority leader newly elected were very gracious to send text messages to the majority caucus and to me personally to say that this was

a reprehensible event that they denounced, which was really nice to hear. but you know, this is something that we really need to put the brakes on. colorado has seen so many of these attacks in many different places. and this one is a sacred place for the lgbtq community, and it's hit the community pretty hard. but we're resilient, and we're strong, and a lot of the people who were there have been saying that. and we need to stand together and really stand up for each other and give us the love that we need. >> you know, i wish that i had been more surprised at what happened. we have seen just relentless attacks, particularly on trans americans, including trans children, for politics. people like your fellow coloradoen laurent boebert who offered her thoughts and prayered today, but she's been one of the people doing it because she's associated somehow with this qanon belief system

which is very focused on lgbtq, especially t. what do you make of for the trans community, does it feel like this was in a sense inevitable because of the attacks and the way trans people have been targeted by conservative politicians in this country, not just with rhetoric but with policy? >> well, you know, there's a lot we still don't know about what the motivations were of the criminal who did this. but the timing of the event and the location of the event is very telling. of a motivation, the way i see it. but yeah, there's been attack after attack after attack in the state houses around the country. there's been dozens and dozens of laws, many of which have been put into effect. and singling out trans people and the lgbtq community at large and many cases, and this has

just been going on for years. and it's gotten worse and worse. so it's not a surprise to me and to a lot of other people that we're at this point where a violent attack is happening. and it's happening at a place like this. because this has been brewing for a long time. >> and you know, barb, let's talk about the law here and how it's going to respond. colorado has bin of the more proactive states in strengthening its gun laws and it's been home to some of history's worst mass shootings going back to columbine, the aurora theater shooting. colorado has had a dark history with this, but colorado changed its bias motivated crime law last year. now bias motivation only needs to be part of the offender's motivation in committing the crime. it's a class 4 felony under colorado law. and then there's this other piece about red flag laws. so last june, last summer, anderson lee aldrich allegedly threatened his mother with a

homemade bomb. there was no record that anyone moved forward with charges, but in your view, given that colorado is a pretty good state when it comes to gun laws, is there anything that in your mind colorado should be thinking about that could make this harder to do, other than, you know, maybe not having 22-year-olds being able to buy assault weapons. we don't know what kind of weapon it was, but your thoughts? >> i think the solution needs to be both law and policy. i think when we have someone who turns up with a red flag as this perpetrator may have, what's the response? okay, you have flagged him. now what? you can't arrest somebody who hasn't committed a crime just because they may appear to be dangerous. and so what do you do with that information? i think that's where the intervention piece comes in. making sure people get the kind of mental health they need, reducing the taboos around mental health. so i think thinking a little more holistically about not just

what we do to identify people who might be at risk, but what we do to help them. to reduce the risk of this happening. i also think that we still need to look at our gun laws. assault rifles like the one used in this attack are weapons designed for one thing, that is to kill people. they're used in war. but using them on the streets really has no purpose other than to kill other human beings. there is, you know, a segment of society that believes we need to have assault weapons so we can rebel against our own government. that is not something that is protected by the constitution. and i think we should take more proactive steps to reduce these kinds of assault weapons that can -- it wouldn't have stopped him from entering that club, but it may have stopped him from killing five people with just a handgun. >> i'm going togive you the last word, representative. i know it's too early because people haven't even been buried. we don't know what the final death toll will be, but do you think yourself and other representatives will rethink gun laws in the state of colorado

after this? >> well, there's a lot of unanswered questions that we still need to answer. and you know, when we see that there's flaws in the things we have done, we'll look at those and look at those very carefully to see if there's ways we can strengthen the laws that we already have. we have an office of gun violence prevention, and we want to make sure that we are doing all the data driven ideas that we have and not be too reactionary and be thoughtful in the things we do to make sure we don't have any unintended consequences. >> thank you so much for being here, colorado state representative brianna titone and barbara mcquade. thank you for being here. >> up next on "the reidout," we're hearing thoughts and prayers from some of the very same people on the right who have been targeting lgbtq people politically, and very personally in a very mean way for years. stay with us.

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the second mass shooting at an lgbtq club, what is supposed to be a safe haven, comes during an onslaught of republican legislation targeting gay and especially trans people throughout the country. the term groomer is an age old vulgar stereotype that lgbtq people and their allies are pedophiles. that has reemerged and it's merged with the qanon cult that has taken hold inside the republican party's evangelical base to become the scare tactic du jour, hoping to drum up support for book bans that target and isolate this community. the rhetoric goes further. if you even mention sexual orientation or sexuality or the existence of gay people, well, according to the republican right, you, too, are a groomer. >> the democrat party is the partee of child abuse. it's the party that represents grooming children and sexualizing them in school. >> it is a disturbing trend in

our society to try to sexualize these young people. >> the official position of disney is that schools should be able to teach children from k-third grade about sexual orientation. why not just rename the roller coaster sex mountain. come on, kids, it will be a blast. >> most transgressive sex of all is sex between an adult and a child. >> remember, how many genders are there? two. that's right, there are two genders. we are proud of it. we'll scream it from the rooftops. >> joining me now is brandon wolf, press secretary for equality florida. he's a survivor of the pulse nightclub shooting, and dr. david johns, executive director of the national black justice coalition. i want to start with you brandon. i cannot imagine what your thoughts were when you saw the news that this has happened again in another city just like it happened to you and your friends. i'm going to let you give us your reaction. >> thank you, joy. and i'm angry tonight. i'm angry because this is what

we warned would happen. this is what we warned would be the inevitant consequence of unmitigated unbridled hate in this country. you just saw what's been happening for the last few years. right wing grifters including politicians like ron desantis and greg abbott have been spewing this vile, hatricful rhetoric. they have been accusing us of posing a threat to children simply because we exist on planet earth. and we warned them that inevitably, this would result in violence. but they just couldn't help themselves. they couldn't help themselves from crafting one more fund-raising email or hitting send on one more grotesque tweet. they couldn't help themselves as the temperature around the country continued to rise, as young people told us that life was getting less and less safe for them. they couldn't help themselves as armed protesters started showing up at drag shows across the country or when white supremacists were being arrested outside of pride festivals.

they couldn't help themselves when children's hospitals in boston and other cities were getting bomb threats having to install airport security terminals to keep people safe. they couldn't help themselves when a doughnut shop was fire bombed for daring to advertise a drag show, and now five people went to a space that was supposed to be safe for them, a space like the one i knew well at pulse nightclub, and they came out in body bags. dozens of people were injured, scars they're going to carry forever. an entire community terrorized. they paid the price for this short-sighting, cynical, and sinister hate these people have been pumping into the ecosystem. i'm angry because i'm tired of asking, of begging, of screaming and scratching and clawing for people to just see us as human. see us as your family members, your neighbors, your friends. please. i am begging you to treat us with a basic level of decency and respect. i'm angry because we deserve to

live. those people deserved to live, joy. >> you have a right to be angry. every right to be angry. david, i'm going to let you in here. to the point that brandon made, these are states that put into law, and ron desantis is front of the law, racing with greg abbott and other governors and youngkin to get to the front of doing book bans targeting black history books and really digging in on books by gay people and about gay people. limiting student athletes in what they can play, excluding coverage of medical care from medicaid coverage for trans kids. making it illegal to teach about gender identity in elementary schools. that's florida. seven states have all passed two or more of these restrictions and i'll throw it to you david with this note. greg abbott rode this rhetoric to get re-elected. even winning in the district that had uvalde. people are more interested in these, like, culture wars than

they are in safety. >> yeah. putting politics over people, and that is not an unsurprising play when we think about the way in which conservative rights on the republican party have been weaponizing mass destruction and mass distraction. this doesn't happen in isolation. i'm always mad as hell, in part because we should not be surprised. this is what happened when we don't allow or encourage critical thinking in our schools and communities. this is what happens when we weaponize hate and call it religious freedom. this is what happens with we allow those political bullies in power like the lieutenant governor in nirk to call lgbtq kids garbage. this is what happens when we have politicians that don't prioritize content moderation and allow the proliferation of hate to take place. toni morrison talks a lot about words are things that get into your curtains that can live

within you. it's important to think about if we can't get over our fear of saying gay and speaking truth to power, we should expect to be here again at some point very soon. >> yeah, and toni morrison, whose books are also banned in places like virginia, under these same laws. anti-gay hate crimes, the center for the study of hate and extremism at cal state, san bernardino, said in 2021, compared to 2020, anti-gay hate crimes have risen 51% in major cities. there have been recent attacks on a new york city gay bar with bricks thrown through the windows. you have even attacks on synagogues. it's spreading. all the groups who get targeted are getting -- and i just want to go on, because i don't think most people have seen one, i have been to one with kids there, i want to show you guys what drag queen story hours look like, because there was a drag show that was supposed to be at this club when this attack happened. i want those who don't know to see what this looks like. >> the hair, so a lot of drag

queens have really big, big, big hair. so the hair on the drag queen goes up, up, up, so you can put your hands on your head like this and go up, up, up. so the hair on the drag queen goes up, up, up. up, up, up. up, up, up. the hair on the drag queen goes up, up, up. all through the town. good job. >> and you know, it makes me sad, brandon, that that scares right-wing people so much that they would try to ban it or your governor sued people over it. and then people act surprised when there's violence against people who are trans and lgbtq. your thoughts. >> yeah, you're absolutely right. i mean, ask people around the country what they're most concerned about and they want to put food on the table for thanksgiving dinner, they want to put gas in their car. yet we have an entire political party held hostage by those who are made uncomfortable or seem

to find their insecurities rooted in a drag queen sharing how tall her wig is. if people wearing a wig reading red fish blue fish at your public library is the most concerning thing happening in your community, i would say you probably have it pretty easy. we have a lot of problems in this country, but that person you just saw on the screen is not one of them. and these people should be absolutely ashamed of themselves that their rhetoric, that their vile language has turned into violence in a community that is now traumatized forever. >> and dr. david johns is saying amen. i'm out of time but i'll let you say amen. >> amen, amen, amen. i want to talk about 12-year high increase in hate crime. this is all preventable. >> amen. brandon and dr. david johns, thank you both very much. still ahead, new questions about our apparently leaky supreme court. senate democrats are now investigating a whistleblower's claims about behind the scenes

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justice samuel alito sold himself as a cautious judge with a respectful presence, but we have come to learn that how much of a farce that was and how much of a farce that was. all along, by the way. he was exactly who his opponents believed he was.

a pugnacious social conservative with an activist agenda. on saturday, in "the new york times," a former anti-abortion faith leader accused alito of leaking the verdict in the 2014 burwell versus hobby lobby case to religious activists. the case allowed privately held companies to object on religious grounds to a revision in the obamacare law that required employers to provide contraception coverage. he said he was told of the outcome weeks before it was announced. he then used the information to prepare his pr campaign and tipped off the president of hobby lobby. shank says that the hobby lobby decision was shared with only a handful of advocates. he said he was privy to the information after working for years to infiltrate the rareied world of the court through wealthy donors from the religious right, including don and gale right, who wealthy donors who dined with justice alo

alito and his wife. "the new york times" reviewed a strain of emails and conversations that seemed to support his claims. the hobby lobby decision was the conservative court's first major signal that it was willing to pursue an aggressively political right-wing religious agenda when it comes to reproductive rights. and we all know how that ended. justice alito issued a statement in response to the claims, writing the allegation that the wrights were told of the outcome of the decision in the hobby lobby case or the authorship of the opinion by the court is completely false. it's unknown whether he issued the statement while twirling a sinister mustache, but beating the hand that extinguished roe v. wade empowered alito. it overturned half a century of precedent, called roe egregiously wrong and a weak argument. he cited centuries old common law, categorizing a woman who received an abortion after quickening as a murderess and then he took a victory lap.

>> i had the honor this term of writing, i think, the only supreme court decision in the history of that institution that has been lambasted by a whole string of foreign leaders. who felt perfectly fine commenting on american law. one of these was former prime minister boris johnson. but he paid the price. >> joining me now is ellie mistal, justice correspondent for the nation. on a scale of 1 to 10 with 1 being, nah, he didn't do it, and 10 being oh, yeah, he did it, how likely is it that alito was the one who leaked the dobbs decision? >> does this microphone go up to 11? the supreme court has been an ethical disaster ever since john roberts took over in 2005.

the supreme court is the only court in the land that operates without ethics rules. and these supreme court justices have been wilding out ever since roberts took over, the conservative side, because if you are part of the federalist society industrial complex, it is very easy to get access to these judges, and the thing that's really, i think, explosive from shank's allegations is not just how easy it was for him to get access, but what they were actually trying to do. if you listen to what he was saying, he was saying they weren't trying to convince them. you don't have to convince these people. they're already on your side. he was trying to temper them. he was trying to steel their resolve. basically, what these right-wing forces tried to do to the justices is to get them to be the worst versions of themselves. and we have seen that for years. we saw it in hobby lobby. we saw it in the bruin decision on guns. we saw it in shelby county on voting rights. we obviously saw it in dobbs on abortion rights.

this goes back to citizens united when alito, mr. fact resistant samuel alito is out there telling the president of the united states, barack obama, not true, when obama is explaining exactly how terrible his hobby lobby decision will end up being. so this goes back a long way. and i think all of it lays at the feet of john roberts. joy, here, i brought a prop. i wrote down all of the ethics rules john roberts has promulgated since 2005. it's it right there. quickly, here is john roberts' response to me too. that's that. here's what john roberts says about whether or not your spouse can participate in an insurrection right here. this is the roberts court. this corruption is its legacy. >> you could add one more thing, because they also lie. first of all, the other piece of it is that it's clear that the leaks are designed to allow the right wing infrastructure to do the pr in advance of them ripping away these rights and sending us back to the 19th

century. they want to give them a pr opportunity to get ahead of it so they can do their messaging. it seems to me they did the same thing when they were being confirmed, the right wing justices on the roberts court. let me play you a montage of them lying to get seats in the first place. >> roe v. wade is an important precedent of the supreme court. it was decided in 1973. so it's been on the books for a long time. >> so a good judge will consider as president of the united states supreme court worthy as treatment of precedent like any other. >> one of the important things to keep in mind about roe v. wade is that it has been reaffirmed many times over the past 45 years. >> roe is not a superpresident because calls for its overruling have never ceased but that doesn't mean that roe should be overruled. >> i think there's no question that they were lying and they knew they were lying and they had an agenda to come on and get rid of roe. but if in fact the federalist society set them up and put them

forward knowing they were going to do that acting job, get on the court and lie, what could be done about such a scandal since they're not -- ethics rules don't apply to them? >> well, the idea that ethics rules don't apply to them, that's a choice. that's a choice from congress. so i'm so glad that you told your viewers that already sheldon whitehouse, my boy sheldon whitehouse and hank johnson have teamed up to try to start the process of actually promulgating ethics rules that the supreme court would have to live under. this, it is one of the biggest, i think, oversights in american jurisprudence that these nine unelectable justices are not subject to ethics rules. in terms of like the larger scandal, is anybody surprised? because that's the other thing here. the justices, they get a real offended when you talk about the lack of legitimacy of their institution and their

organization. but is anybody left out there who truly thinks you're getting a fair shake when you go into the supreme court? is anybody really not understanding that these decisions are predetermined by the judges based on their idealogical crusades as opposed to the facts of the case in front of them? is there anybody basically that dumb and naive to still believe that? because if so, i have a bridge i would like to sell them, right? so like, we know what the supreme court is now. the only relevant question is what we do about it. >> yeah. i know the outcome of every single case, and i'm not even a lawyer. i didn't go to law school. you can tell exactly how these cases are going to come out. just ask yourself, what do right wing republican evangelicals want, and they're going to do that. thank you my front. >> after years of turning a blind eye to so men ay of his alleged crime said, republicans have decided to only crime they really care about is trump's apparent inability to pick winning candidates. we're back after this. keep it real

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for the past six years the republican party and their evangelical christian base have been willing to put their head in the sand and their courage and moral convictions on the shelf as donald trump left his orange stain all over the once grand old party. they didn't seem to blink an eye at the more than two dozen women who have accused trump of sexual misconduct, including rape. they said nothing as he pushed

dangerous conspiracy theories including continuing to lie that he actually won the 2020 election, which you know he didn't. they even defended him after he incited an attack on the u.s. capitol to try to overturn that election. the list goes on and on. apparently, there is one sin republicans cannot forgive. a line in the sand that even donald trump is not allowed to cross. >> we keep losing and losing and losing. and the fact of the matter is, the reason we're losing is because donald trump has put himself before everybody else. >> personality and celebrity just aren't going to get it done. we can see that. >> i have a sense the american people want a new style of leadership. >> we get past trump, we start winning elections. >> that's right. trump is a loser. it's actually the one thing that

you'll find me agreeing with republicans on. it appears the republicans are so concerned about trump's stench they're actively trying to good keep him from getting involved in the georgia run pch off election between raphael warnock and herschel, i want to be a werewolf, walker, what must also be causing the florida retiree to re-create his ketchup soaked wall down at mar-a-lago but please try not to get any ketchup on the classified documents you probably still have, is the fact the walker campaign is not opening him in with open arms. they did welcome the help of brian kemp, one of the people trump blames for his georgia defeat in 2020. and if that wasn't enough, the cherry on top of trump's two scoops of melted ice cream is the fact that some republicans are looking at florida governor ron desantis as the big catch to help move the crowds for walker. perhaps not notiing his poor record on endorsements outside of florida this cycle. regardless of who republicans

bring to georgia, they're still left with herschel walker as their candidate. that alone should keep the seat in democrats' hand, at least in theory. however, republican lawmakers in georgia are trying every trick in their book to try to tilt the scales in their favor. and we'll tell you what they're up to and which democratic heavy hitter is on his way to georgia to campaign with senator warnock, and that is next. research shows people remember commercials with nostalgia. so to help you remember that liberty mutual customizes your home insurance, here's one that'll really take you back. wow! what'd you get, ryan?

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georgia runoff election, democrats are pulling out all the stops. former president barack obama announced today that he will be hitting the trail next week. campaigning alongside senator raphael warnock who is fighting to hang on to that crucial senate seat. republicans, on the other hand, are back to the usual tactics of trying to make it as hard as possible for georgians to vote, hoping only their people can squeeze through the loopholes. so far, they are batting zero. within the last couple of hours, a court of appeals shut down the state's attempt to overturn early voting this coming saturday which, by the way, is the only saturday to cast a ballot before the election. in most counties, it's the only option to vote on a weekend at all. joining me now, charlie sykes, editor at large for the bulwark, amazon jupiter and roland margarine, host of roland martin and unfoldered, author of white fear, how the browning remark a is making white folks lose their mind. a subtle title, roland. i'll start with you. that decision to let people vote on saturday, how crucial is that going to be in georgia? >> it's going to be extremely

crucial because, first of all, understand, republicans are going to take it even further. if you look at what they did, this is the only saturday to vote, they tried to limit monday through friday, so most people are going to be off on saturday. they deliberately changed the law after 2020, runoff shorten from two months to one month. they registered for the run of what the day before the general election as opposed to after the fact. they knew exactly what they were doing by using this state blot on thanksgiving to say, oh, no elections a couple days after the holiday. this is the way republicans tried to narrowly use a lot to be able to tick off voters. they understand, more folks vote, they are likely going to lose. they don't want more people voting. they would be tiktok of what happened in 2020. >> charlie, that, to me, sounds like a statement of weakness, to be honest with you. if you are confident, you don't try to make it harder for

people to come vote on a saturday, which is a convenient day. this fight over who should come in and try to help support herschel walker between the desantis camp, the kent camp, the trump camp, barack obama's coming, president obama's coming to help warnock. what is going on on the other side? >> well, georgia has become ground zero for, you know, the former president's status as the biggest loser. not only did he lose georgia in 2020, he managed to lose two senate seats in 2021. it's kind of ironic when you think about it, donald trump insisted he won georgia, he wanted to big, and yet nobody wants him around, which is kind of an interesting tell. it's an interesting pattern. he lost his presidency in georgia, arizona, pennsylvania, michigan, and wisconsin. look what has just happened in all of those states where, in fact, you know, maga candidates

managed to turn those states either purple or more blue. this goes to your previous topic, republicans are looking at donald trump and seeing this guy is politically toxic, he is a loser. for a party that has no conscience or principle, that's what's driving their motivation right now. >> herschel -- >> if you are democrat, you can't worry about any of that. frankly, they should be sending in for obama, sending vice president kamala harris, they should be hitting, not just atlanta, but hitting columbus, savannah, athens, hitting statesboro, swainsboro, looking at where folks are not voting because, again, camp, they are utilizing the camp field operation, mcconnell is already paying for that. they do not want to lose this seat. democrats just can't bank on obama coming to georgia, atlanta, they have to hit does outlying areas, rural areas to turn up a black turnout there. >> let me ask you, this is what is going to ask, roland, not having saturday voting was a

deal, because in these counties, voting is only 9 to 5 during the weekday. in chatham county, and other places. some places, it's 96. luckily, it's 77 there, but that means it's really hard for people who work every day to vote. what are the real chances that herschel walker, with who can't even do an interview by himself, has to be accompanied by a, you know, white elder statesman, whenever he talks, could actually win? >> it's very real, it's down to two people, one of the dumbest people in america is sitting in and senate right now -- alabama. i played the audio of him quoting the act, he's one of the dumbest people you've ever seen. herschel walker could when. people can't play any games. there has to be massive turnout. that's why the new georgia voter project, that's why black voters matter, that's why a number of groups are going to be there on the ground, doing lots of door knocking because too many of these, and i will

be clear, democratic what strategists want to dump all the money on tv, no. you've got to be touching people on their doors, they're not watching television, they're not looking at digital ads. you've got to be touching them. that's what you are seeing, more and more of these rallies. i'm going to be on the ground beginning monday, taking my show there, talking to black folks, getting people to understand why we must vote, and i'm really clear that walker should not be near the united states senate. warnock should be there. democrats cannot play around. they will be comfortable because they've got to be. you better try to get 51. you are going to need that for the races in 2024. >> and i will go out on that exact note, charlie. you have seen republican voters willing to trade in, you know, doug jones, civil rights hero. for tuberville. you see them willing to elect marshall blackburn, not a rocket scientist, sarah palin. the taste level is different, let's put it that way. what is behind this idea of having someone like warnock? not warnock, but someone like

herschel walker? it feels like they want a puppet. it doesn't seem like they want a scholar. >> they don't want to scholar. they just want a vote. it'll be interesting to see what the motivation to vote now for herschel walker, to sacrifice all your principles to vote for a hypocrite, you know, a dumb candidate like herschel walker when the control of the united states senate is not in play. it was easier to rationalize when it was all about control. it will be less easy to do that. absolutely, this is a razor-thin margin. i think it's -- even having a runoff, that there is a remote possibility herschel walker could be in the united states senate. >> we could do a whole segment on that to talk about why there are runoffs, because there's a reason for that, why it is the way it is, to make sure black people couldn't win. charlie sykes, roland martin, thank you both very much. that's nitrate out. all in with chris hayes starts now. ut all in with chris hayes starts now. >> tonight on all in --