allies in congress to launch a pact in that cycle to help incumbent members who might be facing primary challenges to the left. we have seen progressives, moderates work together in the biden era to be sure. whether and how that continues in the next congress, especially in the minority remains to be seen but that's something that the next leaders will have to navigate. >> fascinating politics to watch there within the house. likely the republicans controlled by just a couple of seats. the dynamics are going to be fascinating. thank you for the reporting this morning. thanks to all of you for getting up "way too early" with us on this tuesday morning. stick around for "morning joe." it starts right now. i wasn't thinking. i just ran over there, got him. i got to kill this guy. he's going to kill my kid. he's going to kill my wife. he ended up killing my daughter's boyfriend. it's the reflex. go, go to the fire. stop the action. stop the activity.

don't let no one get hurt. i tried to bring everybody back. i mean, that's all they're trying to do. >> that is one of the heroes credited with subduing the gunman in the colorado nightclub mass shooting. we'll hear more from that combat veteran as we learn more about the victims and the investigations in just a moment. we also have following new reporting on the georgia senate runoff election. donald trump being urged to stay off the campaign trail where his hand picked candidate, herschel walker is trying to unseat democratic senator rafael warnock. will the former president listen to party leaders asking him to stay on the sidelines. narrator, he will not stay on the sidelines. and senator lindsey graham, his failed bid to avoid testifying in the investigation into 2020 election meddling in georgia comes to a head today when he sits before a fulton county grand jury. we'll have the very latest. we also are watching the federal courthouse in washington where a jury will begin deliberations in

just a few hours in the sedition trial against the founder of the oath keepers, and his four codefendants tied to the january 6th attack on the capitol. good morning, welcome to "morning joe," it is tuesday, november 22nd. we have former white house press secretary, now an msnbc host, jen psaki. mara gay, and the host of "way too early," white house bureau chief at "politico" and the author of the best seller "the big lie," jonathan lemire, good morning to you all. joe, the sound bite we played coming in of the united states army veteran served at iraq and afghanistan was at drag show at club q in colorado springs when he heard the firing begin. charges at the shooter, tackles him, takes his handgun away from him and starts beating him with it, and "the new york times" reports a drag queen came and stomped on the shooter with her high heel. unbelievable story. >> you heard what he said, run

to the sound of the gunfire, go to the action, go where you want to stop people from getting hurt, and again, you just can't help but contrast that with what happened in uvalde, what the leaders of the police department there and other law enforcement officers did there. it was just heinous. they sat and actually ran away from it, were afraid to go in. afraid to do anything, and here we saw obviously fast action stopped just a tragedy from being even worse with even more kid, and so what an extraordinary story there. we're going to go live to colorado in a moment. willie, yesterday i was reading, we have david frum who is going to be on today. he was talking about how -- and i can put myself in this collection of people -- how we

were so out of touch of getting elected in 1994. we got elected. we had this great majority. just a landslide, and we went in there, and we had a contract with america, despite what democrats said. about 75% of americans supported in there, and then the investigations started, and they started against bill clinton, and they continued and they continued, and david said that people -- and he was right. basically going, we know the guy's got some problems. we know he also has some problems when it comes to ethics inside the government. we don't care. just, you know, do your job. we talked about a bubble. members of congress got beaten badly in '96. did worse in '98. bill clinton is impeached and he leads with, what, 62, 63% approval rating, right?

well, david said it's because we were in that bubble. that's exactly what's happening with the republicans. we can see it. right? i mean, people that aren't inside kevin mccarthy's bubble, that aren't inside the house. they can see it, but everybody can see it, but they can't. and it's as if they ignored everything that happened a couple of tuesday nights ago, and i know people are thinking, oh, we're owning the libs. no, no. this election shows you're not owning the libs. you're owning yourself. this harkens us all back, i know, willie, you like me to the great sushi throwing away incident of 2017 when a certain member of donald trump's staff went to one of the most expensive sushi restaurants in washington, d.c. he bought all of this expensive sushi, and as he was going out, the owner said

something critical of him. so to own the libs, he threw away this sushi that he had just bought. making everybody in the restaurant die laughing. so this is what's happening. the owning of the libs is ending up helping the libs, and my god, we've seen it over the past couple of days in washington, d.c. coming out of a house republican caucus that just can't seem to get out of their own way. >> he really showed them, didn't he, throwing out $50 worth of sushi to make his point. this is what kevin mccarthy is talking about now, the republican leader, about to be the speaker, calling for house republicans to fulfill their constitutionally mandated oversight authority over the biden administration. he wrote house republicans will be ready on day one to exercise our article i authority to hold the biden administration

accountable. every congressional committee has an oversight responsibility and we intend to finally get the answers the american people deserve. the gop reportedly has identified 42 officials from president biden's administration to testify next year after republicans take control of the house of representatives in january. former speech writer for george w. bush and conservative columnist tweeted so voters just stopped the gop red wave because they thought republicans were too extreme. as soon as they win a razor thin majority, the first thing they announce they're doing is investigating hunter biden, not addressing inflation, crime or the border, absolutely nuts writes mark thiessen. it's going to be about hunter biden, impeachment hearings as soon as they sit down. it begins in late january. >> and guess what, no plan. i mean, inflation, no idea. no plans.

let's investigate hunter biden's laptop. crime, and even if progressives on twitter think people aren't talking about crime anymore, i can tell you they are because i heard two loved ones yesterday, one in new york, one in washington talking about, like, some really harrowing moments that they experienced yesterday in those two cities. people are still going to be talking about crime. republicans are going to be talking about hunter biden's laptop. health care, which republicans haven't -- jen psaki, you know, republicans hated obamacare so much that they have now gone 12, 13 years without an alternative. people are still in big cities like washington, new york, l.a., they're still worried about crime. they're still worried about homelessness. they're still worried about people with real mental

challenges on the streets for their sake and for their family's sake. they're still worried about stuff like that. they're still worried about health care prices exploding. they're still worried about gas prices exploding. and the republicans who ran say we're the answer to this. they're doing nothing. they're saying nothing. they've got no place. say what you will about my class. we had a contract with america. we said these are the ten thing we're going to do. what do they have. their contract with hunter biden is we're going to investigate hunter biden's laptop. and the hell with american gas prices, the hell with inflation, the hell with health care, the hell with crime, the hell with all of that for these republicans in the house, they don't care. >> what's awkward, horrible for them, horrible for america, to your point is they didn't have any plans for any of these plans

to begin with. nor did they run on any. maybe the secret plan for inflation is the sushi that's being thrown out, i don't know, if we're keeping the analogy going from 2017. now, 42 officials, think of this, can anyone on this group here we're talking to name 42 officials in the biden administration. i may be able to but i worked there for a year and a half. it will get to the point beyond joe biden, bond mayorkas where the american people will look up and say, there's still crime in my city, my groceries cost too much, so does the gasoline. why are you investigating people in the sub category positions in the interior department i've never heard of. that's where their agenda seems to be going. >> it gets to a point, the investigations go on so long, i was there from '95 to 2021, there were things that needed to be investigated. at one point, you know, bill

clinton had allowed the top donor of the dnc to sell missile technology to china, and the pentagon was saying no, and the state department was saying no, and everybody was saying no, right? and so you try to -- and people are like, okay, yeah, is this another investigation, great, and they completely tune you out. and by the way, the hunter biden laptop stuff, they're tuned out on that. they can do it. they're afraid. no, they're not. if you're a republican you should be afraid that they're going to waste two years and lose big in '24. mara, they need to talk about health care, inflation, crime. you don't think crime is a problem? like the left or the right. okay, fine, let's have that debate. homelessness.

i think it was christmas maybe. was it last christmas, you wrote the most beautiful op-ed about homelessness, and from a point of view of your faith. that's a discussion we should have. that's a debate we should have. republicans told us they were going to give us that, and they're giving us hunter biden's laptop. >> thanks, joe. it's extremely discouraging, of course it's also absurd. this is the problem is that their agenda is so deeply out of touch with what the majority of the country is actually living through and dealing with. talk about gun violence, for example. i mean, we could just go down the list, but increasingly this agenda is so obviously tethered to this right wing, bizarre media universe that the republican base is motivated by. but really, nobody else. nobody else, and so in addition to the fact that you have now, you know, a clown show that's

extremely irresponsible and toxic taking place, you have the absence of good government, and the absence of accountability. and that's what's so incredibly frustrating. we have a lot that still needs to be investigated from the past administration as well. and so that's a concern. but all the way down the line i think it's very obvious that democrats and independents and others who are still concerned about the work of good government are going to have to work over time. and we just can't expect to see responsible government under mr. mccarthy. it's extremely disturbing. but, you know, unfortunately this is delivered as promised in a way. >> yeah, you know, since the election, it's remarkable how many people have come up to me. mostly republicans, but how many people have come up to me and said, you know, joe, the only

thing i want is i want good government. he didn't say it exactly that way, but as mara was saying, we want people who are competent. we want republicans that can work together with democrats. we want democrats that can work with republicans. we want them to get things done. that's all they want. and what a great message it would send if actually you had republicans in the house and democrats in the senate, and a democratic president that actually got things done. but right now, it doesn't look like we're going in that direction, and again, look at mark thiessen, this is guy is a conservative's conservative. and this is what he tweeted out. and by the way, what mark is saying here is what so many conservatives are saying. it's what republicans in the senate are saying. i talk to them. this is what they're saying to

those house republicans in their little bubble. so voters just stopped the gop red wave because they thought republicans were too extreme, but as soon as they win a razor thin majority, the first thing they announce that they're doing, investigating hunter biden. not addressing inflation or a crime or the border. it's absolutely nuts. and, jonathan, he's so right. tell us what you're going to do on inflation, tell us what you're going to do on gas prices, republicans. biden has told us. you don't like some of the things he's doing, okay, what would you do. let's have that discussion. let's have the discussion. even though joe biden is drilling more than -- there's more drilling under joe biden than there was under donald trump. even though that's the case from what our guest said a couple of weeks ago, you want even more. let's have that discussion, right? let's have the discussion over

grocery prices. let's have the discussion over things that matter to americans. because republicans are too extreme on abortion. that's what the voters said. they are too extreme on guns. that's what every poll says. 90% of americans want universal background checks. they're too extreme. and this all, bit by bit, piece by piece keeps adding up, they lose in 2017. they lose in 2018. they lose in 2019. they lose in 2020. they lose in 2022. they underperform radically, radically in the house where kevin mccarthy predicted a year ago they were going to pick up 60 seats. 60 seats. and really the only reason they ended up getting it is because legislators in new york, first of all, they don't know how to redraw maps, and secondly, you

know, the governor took down five, six, the governor's under performance because she didn't talk about crime, took down five or six house member seats that are democrats, if you talk to those democrats. don't scream at me. talk to the democrats who lost they'll tell you that's the case. and yet, what are they talking about, hunter biden's laptop. sub level, you know, administration officials. it's just -- i mean, if you're a republican, if you're conservative, it's really depressing. >> democrats in new york state will also point to the previous governor, a deal that he made with senate republicans allowing judges that affected the redistricting process also played a role in the dems not picking up seats there. last year in 2022, republicans tried to get away with not having a plan about inflation and crime. we're out of power, we don't have to. it's not a responsibility. a, that didn't work. b, that no longer flies.

republicans have the house, even though it's a narrow margin. voters are going to want to see what their plans might be. that is not their focus right now and it's not just on the fringes of the republican party. they are saying this is what we need to do. we need to investigate biden cabinet officials, hunter biden and his laptop, and might need to impeach some people, and no white house, to be clear, likes being investigated. it's a drain on resources, it's a distraction, republicans having the house. that will stall the agenda. they also see it as a possibility of using the house gop as a political foil because they seem so out of step and extreme. democrats look good by comparison going into 2024, and republicans are appeal to go a smaller and smaller portion of the electorate. it's the maga republicans, the fox news voters. they speak in shorthand, like the big guy and things that most americans have no idea what they're talking about.

that might play well on truth social, and that might play well on the prime time fox news but those are not enough people to decide elections. we saw that just a few weeks ago and the republicans certainly run a risk of marginalizing themselves that much further going forward. >> i'm not sure it plays straight across fox news post election because there are a lot of people on fox news saying we need to turn away from trump. we need to start figuring out how to win elections again. jen, one other thing, too, again, that if people are thinking, oh, they're so afraid that the biden administration might get it, no, not at all. i'm old enough. i have seen three impeachments. i have participated in one, and i can tell you impeaching the president helps the president. it helped bill clinton. we sat there going, wait, how does this guy keep getting more

popular. a popularity rate in the 60s. when we started it was in the 40s. you can say the same thing with donald trump. donald trump outperformed in 2020 after being impeached the first time. even the second impeachment didn't ding his approval ratings. it really, for the most part, especially if you've got a president in the white house, it really does accrue to the benefit of the party that's in the white house. i don't know why. it's just a reality, but there are enough republicans that, like, can read history books or were there with me that certainly have to understand that. >> look, one would hope, joe, but i think what's interesting is republicans have been predicting for so long, who they're going to impeach, the focus of the investigations, hunter biden and cabinet members. i have talked to the white house, and members of the government, they are preparing, hiring staff, determining what their strategy is going to be.

there's a lot of questions they need to answer, and to jonathan's point, it's a massive pain in the neck to deal with this if you're in the white house. it's a time suck, an energy suck, but to your point, the long game here that where republicans are predicting and laying out for everybody is that this is going to be their primary agenda focus. focusing on hunter biden's laptop, focusing on investigating cabinet officials many of whom we may never have heard of and not addressing the core issues the public pays attention to. while the biden administration, this is a headache for them, and it will be for the first half of next year, over the long-term, they have a serious risk of overreaching and in many ways politically helping the white house, to your point. >> we're going to get back to politics in a moment. we want to go to colorado springs. we know more about the victims of the deadly shooting there, and the heroes who took down the gunmen. the five people killed in the saturday night attack are kelly loving, daniel, derrick rump,

ashley paugh. and raymond vance. 13 victims were still in the hospital as of last night. the district attorney in colorado springs says the 22-year-old man accused in the shooting is facing ten preliminary charges, five counts of first-degree murder, five counts of bias motivated crimes. the department of justice also is determining whether federal charges will be filed here. nbc news has obtained video from a previous case involving a man with the same name and age as the club shooting suspect. he was arrested in june of last year after the man's mother called police to report he had threatened her with a bomb and other weapons. the landlord of the home shared videos from her ring camera. one of them shows the man with his mother dragging a suitcase into the house, he can be heard telling her, this is the day i

die. they don't give a blank about me anymore, clearly, end quote. you see the man walking into the home after moving his car around the block. he did not come back out of the house until hours later when he surrendered to police. the man was booked on felony kidnapping and menacing charges. there's no public record that prosecutors ever moved forward with that case. it also appears neither police nor relatives ever tried to trigger colorado's red flag law. here's what d.a. had to say about that yesterday. >> colorado has very restrictive ceiling laws. what that means is that if a case is filed in a courtroom in the state of colorado and it is dismissed for any reason, whether that's because the prosecution dismisses it or the court dismisses it, it is automatically sealed. that is a change in the law that occurred back in 2019. so only three years ago. that statute requires us to say in response to questions about it that no such record exists. so when you ask questions about

specific prior instances, that will be our specific answer but i wanted to give you a reason why that's the answer that we're giving. i acknowledge that it is very unsatisfying at this point. hopefully at some point in the near future, we can share more about that. but at this stage, that's the best we can give you. the d.a.'s office doesn't play a part in the red flag law. that would be up to a law enforcement agency. that's why i say nobody in this group can really answer that specific question. it has to be initiated by law enforcement or a member of the public. joining us from colorado springs is nbc news correspondent priscilla thompson. good morning, what else do we know today? >> reporter: good morning, willie, well, we heard a lot last night from the hero, the man being hailed a hero here. rich fierro, a decorated army veteran who served a total of four tours across iraq and afghanistan. he spoke to reporters last night from his front yard as his

daughter sat in a wheelchair on the front porch. she broke her knee trying to escape after this deadly shooting. and he told us what happened, and he described a lot of what we've heard already. he heard the gunshots. he saw the flashes of light. and he immediately dropped to the ground and pulled the person down next to him. but then, fierro says he saw the shooter walking toward the patio, and he felt a lull in the shooting. and that is when fierro made the split second decision to get off the ground and go after the shooter. i want to play a little bit of how he described it. >> i grabbed him by the back of his little cheap ass armor thing, and i pulled him down. the young man that was -- he was hiding there, had jumped up with me. i don't know if he helped pull him down or not. i have no idea. okay. that guy did the same act. amazing. pull the dude down. pin him against the side, and

just started, i think he went for his pistol. i don't know, either way, i grabbed the pistol from him. and then i told the guy, move the ar, the kid in front of me. he was at his head. move the ar, get the ar away from him, and the kid did it, and then i started wailing on this dude, and i'm on top of him. i'm a big dude, man, and this guy was bigger, and i kept wailing on him. and i told the kid in front of me. kick him in his head. keep kicking him in his head. someone call 911. this guy is trying to wiggle. trying to get his ammo, his guns. one of the performers walked by or was running by, and i told her, kick this guy, and she took her high heel and stuffed it in his face or his head or whatever she could hit. >> reporter: fierro said they kept hitting the suspect until he stopped moving and until police arrived and were able to apprehend that suspect, and i asked fierro, as a veteran, how does this compare to the experiences that he has had at war, and he told me it is the

same thing except he chose to go to war, and the people in club q on saturday night did not choose that. and of course, among those there, the five people who have now been identified as those who died, including kelly loving, who is being described as such a caring and loving person, daniel aston, and derrick rump, two bartenders there who everyone said made this such a welcoming and friendly environment. ashley paugh who was here for a trip, a day trip, and they decided to go to club q, and she leaves behind her husband and also an 11-year-old daughter. and raymond green vance, he is the boyfriend of richard fierro, the hero there. his daughter. and fierro says that he was a good kid, and as you mentioned, we know that the shooter is still in the hospital according to police. he has been arrested on those charges of five counts of suspicion of first-degree murder and also those bias motivated

crime counts. police say that he will be released from the hospital in the coming days, and then he will appear by video, at which point the d.a. will move forward with actually filing those official charges sometime this the coming days. willie. >> this is a horrifying tragedy, but without question, richard stopped it from being something much much worse. nbc's priscilla thompson reporting from colorado springs this morning. thank you so much. we'll talk to you again later. still ahead on "morning joe." georgia senate nominee herschel walker appears to blame his democratic opponent, raphael warnock for a 1970s television show not being on the air anymore. we'll did our best to explain those remarks. plus, former secretary of state mike pompeo weighs in on who he believes is the world's most dangerous person. his answer might surprise you. also ahead, a january 6th rioter who was accused of stealing house speaker nancy pelosi's laptop on the day of

the capitol attack was found guilty. not for the computer theft. we'll tell you what they got him on. and the latest in ukraine, residents are being told to prepare for rolling blackouts over the winter months. we'll bring in richard haass with his stance on where the war stands. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. when you're through with powering through, it's time for theraflu hot liquid medicine.

powerful relief so you can restore and recover. theraflu hot beats cold. age comes with wisdom. and wisdom comes with benefits. dryer's broken okay... you want a socket.... that's especially true when it comes to medicare. so make the wise call and learn more about cigna medicare plans in your area.

their tools and resources make it simple and easy. bears can smell wifi. visit cignawisecall.com today. you want to flip it. moving forward with node- positive breast cancer is overwhelming. but i never just found my way; i made it. and did all i could to prevent recurrence. verzenio reduces the risk of recurrence of hr-positive, her2-negative, node-positive, early breast cancer with a high chance of returning,... as determined by your doctor when added to hormone therapy. hormone therapy works outside the cell... ...while verzenio works inside to help stop the growth of cancer cells. diarrhea is common, may be severe, or cause dehydration or infection. at the first sign, call your doctor, start an antidiarrheal, and drink fluids. before taking verzenio, tell your doctor about any fever, chills, or other signs of infection. verzenio may cause low white blood cell counts, which may cause serious infection that can lead to death. life-threatening lung inflammation can occur. tell your doctor about any new or worsening trouble breathing, cough, or chest pain. serious liver problems can happen. symptoms include fatigue, appetite loss, stomach pain, and bleeding or bruising. blood clots that can lead to death have occurred.

tell your doctor if you have pain or swelling in your arms or legs, shortness of breath, chest pain, and rapid breathing or heart rate, or if you are nursing, pregnant, or plan to be. i'm making my own way forward. ask your doctor about everyday verzenio. i grew up an athlete, i rode horses... i really do take care of myself. i try to stay in shape. that's really important, especially as you age. i noticed after kids that my body totally changed. i started noticing a little pudge. so i took action! coolsculpting targets, freezes and eliminates treated fat for good. no needles, no incisions. discuss coolsculpting with your provider. some common side effects include temporary numbness, discomfort and swelling. you've come this far... coolsculpting takes you further. visit coolsculpting.com research shows people remember commercials coolsculpting takes you further. with nostalgia. so to help you remember that liberty mutual customizes your home insurance, here's one that'll really take you back. wow! what'd you get, ryan? it's customized home insurance from liberty mutual!!! what does it do, bud? it customizes our home insurance so we only pay for what we need!

and what did you get, mike? i got a bike. ♪ only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ these are the faces of listerine. the face of millions of germs zapped in seconds. the face of clean. the face of whoa. some are of intensity, others, joy. all are of - ahhhh. listerine. feel the whoa! boy, that's a beautiful live picture just after 6:30 in the morning at the white house. in an interview with the news platform semifore, mike pompeo weighed in on the issues he believed to be central to any republican running for president in 2024. those ideas include limited government, expanded set of freedoms, and protecting the capacity of people to practice

their faith, and adding making sure we don't teach our kids crab in schools. i get asked who is the most dangerous person in the world, chairman kim, xi jinping, the most dangerous person in the world is randi weingarten, the head of the american federation of teachers union. it's not a close call. he continued, if you ask, who's the most likely to take this republic down, it would be the teachers unions and the filth they're teaching our kids. the former secretary of state saying -- >> is this another harvard boy? >> no, he's west point. >> but didn't he go to harvard law school. look it up real quick. i tell you, some of these ivy league boys, it's like what filth did they teach them up there.

it's just not even serious. if you got problems with a teachers union, okay. he went to harvard law. another harvard boy. what do they teach those people in those ivy schools. it's really just what an embarrassment, and how many people that graduated from west point, great americans, proud americans, noble americans, who actually believe what general mcarthur said last time he went to west point, talking about duty, honor and country. flinch, flinch, when mike pompeo turns public office into a clown show, he's saying that randi weingarten is more dangerous

than vladimir putin? you know, sometimes it's just too much. let's bring in richard haass. i'm going to let richard finish my sentences for me this morning. richard, seriously, again, this camera, richard, right here, look at me. >> 15 more years, i'll get the hang of it. richard, would you rather talking about the world cup. we can talk about the world cup if you would like. >> no, i want to provide some historical context to what the secretary of state said. >> let me just say seriously, i have reverence for people that were honored enough to be able to get their education at west point, and though i joke about harvard boys, you know, i'm a southern state school guy and loved, loved going to alabama and loved going to florida, and

a great thrill for me every time i go back to those two schools. but i think about people that had the opportunity to get these degrees where they're able to get -- and how they squander it. the bible talks about throwing pearls at swine. they squandered this extraordinary education at ivy league schools, and west point, this character shaping experience, and you have him saying that somebody running a teacher's union because he's now -- he's now chasing certain voters in a bubble to do well in the republican primary. saying that she's more dangerous -- xi's more dangerous than vladimir putin, who indiscriminately kills children, women, mothers, grandmothers,

civilians. or kim, who targets japan with missiles and south korea, threatens the united states with nuclear extinction. i mean, why can't people read the room? why can't he and others get serious, especially given their background. it's really just sad that they're this way. it's depressing. we've got problems with what kids are being taught in some schools. i've always had those problems. a lot of americans have. it's a constant battle, a constant fight. equating a teacher union head to vladimir putin, it's just crazy. why don't you tell us who the most dangerous people in the world are, other than randi weingarten. >> i figured out what mike pompeo must have been doing the night before he made the comments, the only thing that

explains is it he was watching sleeper because if you remember, the woody allen character in sleeper wakes up and says what happened, and he found out that albert shanker, the head of the new york teachers union set off a nuclear weapon. so clearly mike pompeo is watching old woody allen movies and basically modernizes the reference to albert shanker with randi weingarten. that's the only way i can explain it. i couldn't get into harvard. i got rejected from har voir dire -- harvard. i would say it's what we're not teaching in school. it would be nice if kids learned something about civics and the world. we can have a conversation. i have a long list of the most dangerous people. vladimir putin, he has 100 times as many nuclear weapons as kim. i start with him probably more than anybody else. and here i would worry in this country about the people who are

threatening american democracy, and there's a long list of those. you talk about them every morning on this show. >> some of us didn't even bother applying to harvard, so don't feel too bad, richard. >> i'm almost over it. >> we're talking about the former secretary of state. this isn't a podcaster who says wild things. this is a guy seriously considering running as president of the united states, and he knows the most dangerous people because he's met them. >> what's happening in realtime is incredibly dark. forget about the politicalization of american life, it's like nothing is sacred for some people. and so we can't even just leave teachers alone. at this point, we've got to bring them in as part of the fodder and ammunition for their culture wars to help a small number of people get elected, and that's incredibly disturbing

to me. you know, it is kind of a joke of course, but also you just have to think to yourself what's behind that. it's extremely sinister. there's also just a question of why it would be that you would be a teacher this morning waking up and hearing this. i mean, what do you think? in every community across america, these are people who are deeply involved in trying to, like, show up for young people, and now they're a target of this political game. i mean, it's just enough already, nothing is sacred. it's demoralizing. on the other hand, if you are randi weingarten, you might look at this and say, hey, thank you. it does show the power that she has to shape young people's lives. and so maybe there's something in that. i don't know. but i just feel like i'm grasping at straws, frankly, because i'm so demoralized and meanwhile, we have real problems. we have xi. we have putin.

we have the january 6th cast of characters who have largely yet to be held accountable, and we're sitting here talking about whether or not teachers now or the teachers union are the biggest threat on the world stage. so when does it get serious, i don't know? >> and you know, jen psaki, you know the problem is for randi weingarten, just thinking about the hate that mike pompeo has now stirred up against her. think about the fact we're going to be reporting later this morning that election official in arizona have gone into hiding at undisclosed locations because of the lies spread by republicans, by republicans, by mike pompeo's party, by republicans, the lies spread about other republican election officials, the head of maricopa county's election outfit, a lifelong republican, votes for republicans nonstop. in hiding this morning because of the lies spread, and i've got

a feeling that threats against randi weingarten are going to go up now. mika and i know something about how this works. and mike pompeo did it, for what? why not run a serious campaign? why not actually speak to the real concerns that americans have instead of playing, again, we go back into that little bubble. >> right, i mean, randi weingarten is a pretty tough cookie, but to your point, this type of attack, this type of, you know, verbal diarrhea, whatever it was out there by mike pompeo, this will spark people in the right wing who are out there in the country, may not be elected who think, oh, randi weingarten is now our target. this is how it goes. but to willie's point, it's a little bizarre, whether people like or don't like what mike pompeo did as secretary of state, he was the secretary of state. he could be out there talking about how it's scary that iranian leaders are reportedly

providing drones to the russians. he could talk about kim jong un and how crazy it is that he's so crazy. he could be doubling down on his qualifications, and instead, he is putting a target on the back of somebody leading a teacher's union and that alone tells you why he's probably not qualified to be president. many other reasons too. >> number one in his class at west point, cia director, secretary of state. he knows better. here we go again. let's turn to the war in ukraine, after weeks of relentless air strikes by russia, ukrainians are being told to brace for a long, grim winter. energy officials say rolling blackout may continue through march, and residents are being urged to stock up on blankets. russian missile strikes have damaged 50% now of the country's energy facilities. according to the world health organization, millions could face a life threatening winter in ukraine. so, richard, talk about serious matters, here we are turning into winter.

we have seen reporters on the ground in kyiv, snow is falling, people are bundling up. they don't have heat. trying to figure out how they're going to make it through a long winter. what does it mean for the war and the way vladimir putin is thinking about the next four or five months. >> this is vladimir putin's strategy. it's basically what he tried in syria, what he used, essentially succeeded at in syria. he can't win on the battlefield. he's now in positions that will be more difficult to dislodge russian forces from. they still control close to 20% of the country. they're in slightly more defensive concentrated positions. they will be very hard even after winter for ukraine to dislodge them anytime soon if ever. and what you see is the war against the civilian population, against electricity, against energy, against homes, to make it grim. the whole idea is to break the will of the ukrainian people to make them essentially say this

game isn't worth the candle. that is vladimir putin's strategy, full stop. it's almost that simple. it's not going to work. i think you're confident ukraine will get through the winter, but it's going to be with enormous difficulty. the most simple things are suddenly going to become extraordinarily difficult in society. >> we had a terrifying moment where a missile landed in poland. there was a real fear this was going to escalate the war. nato and russia could square off. it was the ukrainian defense missile. president biden was in indonesia. but how worried are you now as the war perhaps settles into a frozen period, a wayward rocket or a rogue actor could do something that could really escalate things and change the face of this conflict. >> look, it's possible, obviously anytime a war goes on. stuff happens and in either direction. i can imagine some ukrainian

operation inside russian territory or vice versa. i can't imagine, though, purposefully that russia would take on nato. russia can't beat ukraine. how in the world is it going to take on that? how is it widening against the war in nato help them. i don't see it. i could see ukraine do some operation inside russia. if missiles keep coming from russian territory in ukraine. lots of pressure to do something to interfere, and the question is how would russia react to that. anytime a war continues there's a possibility of escalation. that's one of the many reasons we shouldn't get sanguine. but to me, the good thing about what happened the other day, jonathan, the western response was quite measured. it was a good example of colin powell's law, that first reports are always inaccurate and incomplete. people took a moment. it was measured. they investigated. they didn't fly often and respond. i took that as a good sign. the grownups were in charge in nato, and people said let's not

get into a quick reaction cycle. i was somewhat heartened by that. >> and talking specifically about poland. poland's ambassador to the united states said we have this reputation of being hot heads. look at us. we were calm, and by all reports, people i talked to on the ground were saying everybody was extraordinarily measured. all the nato leaders were extraordinarily measured. they sat, they talked. they decided as you said to move forward together, regardless of what you did. it ended up the report was erroneous, the ap reporter who filed it has been fired, but in realtime, that could have been obviously quite a danger. finish up on that if you want to. i would love you, though, also. we can get a little bit of world cup news and foreign policy in. iran's leadership blaming the

team's drumming yesterday, the 6-2 loss on the protests distracting them, the protests going on in the country. i get social media updates. i don't think american media is reporting on this enough. i think we've tried to, but we need to do more. but it seems those protests in iran are continuing. it seems this ground swell cannot be stopped by a regime that has been the epicenter of terrorism since 1979. >> you're right, joe, it may actually be the most under reported story in the world and the least appreciated story in the world, for good reason, we're focused on russia and ukraine. that's been heavily reported. we've got the gist of that, and we're looking at what's going on in china, possibilities of taiwan. what's going on in iran, though, you've got three things going on. one of those protests have gained a degree of traction that most people dismiss. this is quite extraordinary, the biggest challenge to the islamic revolution since 1979, since

they took power through a series of protests, not fundamentally unlike this one. and the critical question will be will there be a day when the security forces won't turn on the people but will turn on other security forces or join the people. that's one thing. two, you've got a potential succession crisis at the top, and thirdly, every day iran is getting closer to nuclear weapons. it's quiet, but they're doing it. the iaea is having real difficulty. they are almost slicing it, getting closer and closer and closer, and i think it's getting very close to where israel or saudi arabia or the united states are going to have to say is iran now getting to a point that is truly unacceptable, and let me throw out the possibility that the regime might not mind that. they might like the idea of foreign military intervention at some point because that would help them change the face of what's going on, and they could say, you all in iran have to rally around the flag against these foreign invaders. so i would just watch this space. i really do think it might be

the biggest crisis in the first half of 2023, more than ukraine, more than taiwan. i would actually watch this space closely. >> it really does seem like the regime is on a collision course, and, willie, we should note the iranian players on the iranian football team did not sing the national anthem at great risk to themselves. you can also say that about other iranian athletes who have proven to be true heroes. i have always felt for these iranian players playing for a regime that they disagreed with so strongly. they're a good football team. but we've seen this throughout society. everything from the most elite athletes on the biggest stage, biggest world stage, to middle school girls rising up and speaking out against iranian leaders when they come to speak to them. the iranian people really

showing some remarkable courage. >> particularly the young people. it is extraordinary to watch. as you say, joe, watching that video yesterday, there are a billion people watching that. that is an act of courage, when you stand there and will not sing the national anthem of your country in an act of protest, and to see young women removing their head scarves and being beaten for it. there's a lot of courage on display. richard haass, thank you so much. we'll see you soon. hospitals across the country are facing a triple threat as we move into the holiday season. covid, rsv, and the flu. we will talk to nbc news medical contributor, our friend dr. vin gupta about each of these viruses. that's next on "morning joe." t viruses. that's next on "morning joe. flu symptoms hit harder than the common cold. so it takes the right tool for the job... to keep it together. now there's new theraflu flu relief with a max strength fever fighting formula.

the right tool for long lasting flu symptom relief. hot beats flu. ♪ ♪ this... is a glimpse into the no-too-distant future of lincoln. ♪ ♪ it's what sanctuary could look like... feel like... sound like... even smell like. more on that soon. ♪ ♪ the best part? the prequel is pretty sweet too. ♪ ♪ my active psoriatic arthritis can slow me down. the prequel is pretty sweet too. now, skyrizi helps me get going by treating my skin and joints. along with significantly clearer skin, skyrizi helps me move with less joint pain, stiffness, swelling, and fatigue. and skyrizi is just 4 doses a year after two starter doses. skyrizi attaches to and reduces a source of excess inflammation

that can lead to skin and joint symptoms. with skyrizi, 90% clearer skin and less joint pain is possible. serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or a lower ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, had a vaccine, or plan to. with skyrizi, there's nothing like the feeling of improving my skin and joints... ...and that means everything. now's the time to talk to your doctor about how skyrizi can help treat your psoriatic arthritis- so you can get going. learn how abbvie can help you save. nexium 24hr prevents heartburn acid before it begins. get all-day and all-night heartburn acid prevention

with just one pill a day. choose acid prevention. choose nexium. ♪ my name is austin james. as a musician living with diabetes, fingersticks can be a real challenge. that's why i use the freestyle libre 2 system. with a painless, one-second scan, i know my glucose numbers without fingersticks. now, i'm managing my diabetes better, and i've lowered my a1c from 8.2 to 6.7. take the mystery out of managing your diabetes and lower your a1c. now you know. try it for free at freestylelibre.us folks, it looks like we're gonna have to land this big old bird now you know. earlier than expected because it's the xfinity black friday sale. get the fastest mobile service with xfinity mobile.

yeah, we'll be cruising in to get the best price for 2 lines of unlimited for just $30 each per month. oh my! plus, for a limited time, get 500 dollars off an eligible 5g phone. even you in 22c. flight attendants, prepare for big savings. drop everything and get to the xfinity black friday sale. click, call or visit a store today.

. how beautiful is that. what a city. coming up just before the top of the hour. 6:56 in the morning in new york. joe, i can't believe i'm about to say what i'm about to say. >> say it, willie. say it. >> should i just say it? >> you got to go there. walk through that door. >> tomorrow morning on our show, on "morning joe," we have been here for 15 years, and it finally happened, howard stern will be our guest tomorrow morning. in all of his years of broadcasting, he's always wanted to interview bruce springsteen. as you may have heard a couple of weeks ago, it finally happened. it was extraordinary, two and a half hours of music and life, and howard will join us tomorrow morning to talk about that conversation which was so good, they're now putting it up on hbo in its entirety as a special production. boy, joe, i have been listening to howard, i grew up in new jersey, for 35 years, i guess, something like that.

so this is a huge thrill. i get a chance to talk to him tomorrow. >> just a huge thrill. you know, howard had early in his career, had a schtick, did it very well. you saw it in his movie. something really started happening over the past five, ten years. he became an extraordinary interviewer of musicians, especially, and i would sit and listen to him talk to like, for instance, billy joel and just be transfixed. what he was able to pull out of these musicians that liked him genuinely, he knew what he was talking about, unlike so many interviewers. and it's just, it's always been such a pleasure to listen to howard when he's interviewing musicians. and this, again, it's what he's always wanted to do after 15 years. he, you know, our 15 years rgs

-- years, actually, but after all this time, he's got to interview the boss. it's going to be extraordinary. >> yeah, for those of us who love springsteen and howard, this was like a, to me it was his best interview. boy has he done a lot of them. always incredibly well prepared and the implicit agreement for a guest, when you walk into the studio, it's all on the table. bruce was the perfect example of that. he went deep, said things i hadn't heard him explain for. he went into the stories behind the song, like his broadway show. howard has done about every interview, you can hear his tone in the interview, and the next day talking about it, it was a thrill for him. he can't believe he got the chance to do it. >> it was a thrill for him and a thrill for us to have him on talking, and to have him talking obviously about a topic we all love, too, the boss. going to be just unbelievable. >> and howard will be here tomorrow morning. you won't want to miss that.

let's turn back to the news at the top of the hour, hospitals across the country are being pushed to the brink, becoming overwhelmed as they deal with an influx of patients with covid, the flu and rsv, along with persistent staffing shortages. some hospitals have had to set up overflow tents and activate transfer agreements to manage the surge in patients. "the washington post" notes of the staffing issues, quote, more than half a million people in the health care and social services sector quit their positions in september, evidence in part of burnout associated with the coronavirus pandemic, and the american medical association says one in five doctors plan on leaving the field within two years. let's bring in nbc news medical contributor, dr. vin gupta. so great to see you as always. appreciate you being here and up early with us. boy, these are medical professionals who are the heroes of the pandemic, have been through so much over the last nearly three years now, and being asked again to deal with

these extraordinary conditions, adding flu and rsv now into equation. how bad is it in hospitals across the country? >> willie, good morning, great to see you. i'm sitting in an adult icu not far from our children's hospitals, and i'll say that in children's hospitals, it's a lot worse. adult hospital capacity right now isn't quite as bad as it was back in the winter of 2020, 2021, it's important for viewers to understand that slack in the system in children's hospitals is by definition always pretty low. 1/10 the hospital capacity for kids versus adults. willie, what we're seeing across the country is there isn't any slack in the system. it's completely packed, and there are a lot of reasons for that, but basically across the country, since the beginning of the pandemic, we have seen a 20% decline in the amount of pediatric beds for a variety of reasons. but basically pediatric beds

have been closing preferentially, and now we're seeing this is really coming to a head. >> dr. gupta, actually, by son got sick a couple of weeks ago, went in, and may immediately tested him for all three of those you have just laid out. explain if you can a little bit, rsv, which i think is probably new to a lot of people, and how serious that can be. >> so this is another contagious respiratory virus, can cause the common colds, willie, in folks like you and i. in most adults it will cause the common cold. high risk medical risk, a condition like cancer, it can land you in the hospital with severe pneumonia. critically for parents out there with young basic, what this can do is -- and the difference between this flu and covid, they're great mimics of each other. rsv can caused high pitched wheezing. if you put your eye next to your baby, if there's sniffling, and high pitched wheezing, almost, i

can't say a guarantee, but high likelihood, rsv, nostrils flaring out, their ribs sucking in, potentially a sign they are dealing with rsv. flu, none of these things are definitive 100% signs of a diagnosis, but flu, high fever, covid often causes nonpulmonary issues, gi issues and brain fog. a quick tool quit frankly to understand what might be happening, since we don't have at-home tests, tests for covid, and flu at the same time. >> so dr. gupta, we're just at the beginning, really, if you look at it, of the holiday season. people are going to be gathering again in thanksgiving and coming up through hanukkah and christmas and the other holidays that come with it. what should people know? do you want them to get their flu shot now. is it too late to get the flu shot. should they get the covid booster, what's a good way to prepare for what's ahead here through the winter? >> perfect time to get your additional shot here if you're

medically high risk, remember to ask your medical provider for the quadravalent flu shot, stronger flu shot for medically high risk. still within the window and still okay to space out the booster shot and the flu shot. you can get them at the same time. no increase in adverse reactions. it's a common question we get. something critical we don't talk about enough in the medical profession. if you're medically high risk, traveling worried maybe you'll test positive for covid or flu, something you should do, talk to your medical provider, ask them if they will place a standing prescription for tamaflu or paxlovid. tamaflu treats flu well, and paxlovid treats covid. standing prescriptions are key. you have it in the pharmacy. you have to fill it so you don't

have to go racing around if you test positive and are feeling ill. standing order, if you're medically high risk, i encourage all viewers to do, that's important. and lastly, this rsv surge is necessitating us to develop at-home tests for more things than just covid because coughing can mean more than just covid. covid, flu, rsv, tests that can do all three in the at home environment, critical for the future. >> dr. vin gupta, great advice, and always appreciate you stopping on another busy day for you. thank you so much. good to see you. we are back now just over the top of the hour. jonathan lemire, mara gay still with us, and joining the conversation, msnbc contribute, mike barnicle, former u.s. senator and nbc news and political analyst, claire mccaskill, and the host of the on brand with donny deutsch podcast, donny deutsch. good morning, what do you think about howard tomorrow, come on? >> that's huge, huge. he's a big fan of the show.

whenever i bump into him, we start talking about it. i'm sure he's excited to be here too. >> donny deutsch, living in a different universe. let's start this hour with georgia's senate runoff. 15 days away. someone you may not see on the campaign trail is former president donald trump. following the midterm elections where voters largely rejected trump-backed candidates, rolling stones reports top republican leaders, allies of the former trump to stay away from georgia. he said his presence would be a positive for walker and dismissed anyone saying otherwise. one person who definitely will be in georgia, former president barack obama. obama will campaign for democratic senator rafael warnock just days before the runoff. meanwhile at a campaign event in georgia over the weekend. herschel walker appeared to blame senator warnock for the tv show "all in the family" no longer being on the air. let's see what he said.

>> he's here talking about the past. we don't want to live in the past. i got to tell you here, archie bunker wouldn't be on the air. i used to love archie bunker. senator warnock, it wouldn't be on the air because he's still living in the past, you got to come to the future, sir. we're moving forward. we're not going backwards. >> it's a well known fact in the entertainment industry that it was rafael warnock who ran archie bunker off the air. that's just true. >> people knew, and would say so as herschel walker was running up and down for the georgia bulldogs, you know that young man, he is idealogically aligned with norman leer. i mean, again, the stupidity. the stupidity of these people. you could talk about pompeo saying what he said. again, a guy, cia director, secretary of state, saying that the head of a teachers union is

more dangerous. easily the most dangerous person in the world. and again, people just look at it and go, what are you talking about, stop being stupid. herschel walker, of course, one stupid comment after another, willie. it's just -- again, the stupidity, and we're going to get back to that in one second. i just have to interrupt for a second. this is amazing. jonathan lemire, not that i have been watching this out of the corner of my eye, but the greatest upset in world cup history, i would say, and i don't think there's a close second, just took place, argentina with messi, expected to be the favorites by many in this tournament, just lost to saudi arabia in their opening match. group stage. jonathan lemire, no words, i mean, this is like number 16 princeton losing to number or almost beating number one

georgetown. exempt magnify that by about a thousand. just unbelievable. >> no offense to willie, but i was following that on my phone as he was talking. messi has been one of the greatest players to play the game, but the world cup has not broken through with argentina, and this is extraordinary. this was seen as a strong argentina team, one of the favorites. saudi arabia not known as a soccer power house. extraordinary 2-1 game that people will remember for generations. sets argentina's championship hopes back immensely, and just incredible. i don't want to make the comparison to miracle on ice. >> you can't do that. nobody does that. what are you, a communist. >> let me finish it. >> stop it. don't bring it up. >> i don't want to because for all of the political parts involved too. but just in terms of a pure upset, that's what i'm trying to

say on the world stage. >> i don't know what you're trying to say anymore, jonathan. >> 2-1. >> try to put it in context. >> lake placid is lake placid. lake placid stands alone my friend. >> i literally said i don't want to compare it. >> but you really, aren't you? i don't want to compare anything to -- i don't want to compare this comic book to the united states constitution, but you can't do that, jonathan. anyway, willie, of course, they are not out. this is just group stage. they'll have a shot to play again. still just remarkable. by the way, as we grab from this veritable cornucopia of topics, i got a text from reverend al, one of the craziest interviews he has been a part of is when he walked into howard stern's studio with the god father of soul and said it was the most

unbelievable interview with james brown that he's ever seen and he's going to be posting that on the twitter this morning. so, yeah, pretty unbelievable. i think you were talking about herschel walker. i'm not sure. but isn't it amazing that donald trump, claire mccaskill, is being told by every republican, stay the hell out of georgia. of course obama is going there. democrats desperately want obama in. the president does, as we all know, he's a great closer. but republicans, even on the warnock team are telling donald trump stay the hell out. we would actually like to win the race this time? >> yeah, to this day, the republican senators in washington believe with everything they have that the reason warnock, reverend warnock has a senator before his name is because of two words, donald trump. they believe that donald trump

elected reverend warnock, and i don't think they may be wrong about that. and they want to try to avoid repeating that mistake this year. i'm going to tell you, though, the energy on the ground is on the democrats' side. there is a little momentum coming out of the elections and frankly, the republicans, their only shot at getting republicans to hold their nose and vote for walker was control of the senate, and that is now gone. so that motivation for the voters down there that know that herschel walker is not fit to be a senator, i predict they will not be enthusiastic about showing up to vote for him now. >> and talking about the tarnished brand, donny deutsch, it's happened quickly. republicans understand and you're starting to hear it from more and more republicans, that donald trump just equals defeat. if donald trump's on your side, chances are very good in most cases in general elections, at least, he's great for primaries

in the republican party, but you will lose most of your general election races. something we have been saying for six years now. georgia republicans understand this more than any other republican party in america because everything trump touches as they say politically in georgia, dies. >> yeah, and it's actually the economies of scale, it's going to continue to heighten. the republicans have a trump problem. you know, it keeps getting discussed about, you know, the party has to move away. and i have said this on the show before, joe, and you and i have talked about it. he's not going to go anywhere. his heroine is relevancy, attention, he's not going to step aside, and i believe going forward to 2024, he's going to ralph nader it, and burn the house down, end up being a third-party candidate. i think that's where this ends and he will take the entire party down with him. he will no disappear. the republicans have their huge

problem, they can have their desantis's, and youngkins, but they don't win an election with trump standing around. >> this breaking news with jonathan lemire, messi owns a patch of oil fields just outside ryad. >> the only explanation i think for this defeat. we know the saudis like to throw their money around and also pretty menacing characters at times, but this is, again, i'm going to resist making any other sports analogies but can't be said, what an upset. this is as big as it gets. it's not just argentina lost, to lose from saudi arabia. >> and they came from behind to do it. messi scored early. not dead yet but a huge setback for argentina. mike, let's talk about donald trump. let's talk about the state of georgia. if he wants to go, he's going to go. donald trump doesn't entertain

invitations. and we should say that herschel walker is a special case. we talk about donald trump anointing dr. oz and other candidates, herschel walker is his political creation. he drafted him to play for the new jersey generals in the 1980s, views him as having made herschel walker a star. if he wants to go to georgia, it does not matter what the republican party tells him. >> this is true. it's also true that this is a good look at the roots of the current republican party. the herschel walker story, let's take that for example. all the stuff you see on tv, the archie bunker reference we just saw, the vampire references we just saw. >> pregnant cows. >> it starts out as being funny. it lapses from funny to sad. that's herschel walker. it lapses now from sad to tragic, the fact that this man is actually a candidate for the united states senate. we see it in concert with the republican party takeover by

supposedly kevin mccarthy, going to be speaker. maybe. maybe not. and the first thing they do when they gather as a group having won the house is let's get hunter biden. >> yep. >> they can't govern. they don't know how to govern. they don't know what people want. people don't want hunter biden. they want inflation to be reduced, gas prices to come down, grocery shopping to be amenable to family budgets now. they are so lost in fear of donald trump they are a skeleton of what the party used to be. >> what are the chances that donald trump chooses to stay out of this race. i don't know. i think one of the things for me just as a black american watching this is it's just doubly tragic. i mean, how herschel walker, this black man, ended up just, you know, applauding archie bunker who let's face it was a

pretty racist character. that's what this race is coming down to to your point, mike. it's just become sad, embarrassing actually. i'm embarrassed for him, and that's really not about politics. that tells you where our politics is, and it's dirty. it's ugly. it's racist. it's not offering anything to the american people. what are the georgians, i have not heard anything from that campaign about how they're going to actually serve georgians, and so it's disappointing, maybe barack obama can bring some class to this race. i don't know. >> at the end of the day, a lot of people voted for herschel walker and they'll vote for him again. >> the control of the senate not in the balance. there were some republicans that held their nose and said, okay, i'm going to vote for herschel walker if that means getting the majority. that is now gone. the republicans i have talked to are worried about enthusiasm in georgia. democrats feel much much better about getting that seat, giving

them 51 rather than 50 seats. let's talk about the state of arizona where an elections official is in hiding after he received threats on social media. maricopa county has confirmed the chairman of the board of supervisors, named bill gates, no relation, a lifelong republican has been moved to an undisclosed location for his safety. maricopa, the heart of election denialism in 2020 became a flash point as technicians scrambled to fix dozens of malfunctions vote tabulating machines on election day. despite the threats, gates has continued to update social media about maricopa's vote count. the largest county in arizona counting ballots. former president trump targeted specifically on his social media on election day calling it a quote vote integrity disaster. failed gubernatorial candidate and election denier kari lake issued a statement yesterday also specifically calling out maricopa county, calling the election the most chaotic in

arizona's history, and promised to continue fighting. at a press conference yesterday, the maricopa sheriff called on leaders to be more responsible with their rhetoric, and did not single out lake specifically. we saw some of this in 2020. we saw a lot of it in georgia, and we saw some of those people testify, elections official testify before the january 6th committee about the threats to their life, irresponsible candidates. >> claire, if you were building a case, it's so easy as a prosecutor. if you're building a political case. there's just such a through line. is claire mccaskill here or am i just imagining that claire mccaskill is here. >> yes, i'm here. >> so claire, i was looking at willie, talking to claire, so there's a through line, obviously, you can look at paul pelosi, the years of attacks

that nancy pelosi got, and what was intended for her actually tragically visited upon her husband. you can look at the threats that the georgia volunteers have. people coming into their lives because all of the lies of donald trump, and unfortunately people we know would spread around facebook lies about them, you look at what mike pompeo is saying about randi weingarten, i guarantee you she's going to have threats against her life, and there's a celebration of it. donald trump going, hey, i wonder how nancy pelosi is doing right now. hey, how has she been doing lately. the mocking, sneering, people laughing at it. again, this hostile environment it's created. i'll be polite, by trump republicans, but enough republicans, nontrump republicans do not call it out. and we know where all of there

ends, the threats the ridicule, trying to dehumanize opponents, and suddenly the threats against election officials now, republicans having to go into hiding this morning with their families because they're facing death threats because of donald trump, kari lake and two years of lies by republicans. >> someone smart yesterday said this election cycle began with violence on january 6th and ended with violence in paul pelosi's home, and it is important to realize that even the shooting at the gay bar in colorado is a result of this hateful rhetoric. when you demonize gay people, when you pass laws that say don't say gay, when you objectify them and call everyone who's gay a pedophile who's grooming our children, violence happens. so it is not surprising to me

that this lifelong republican who is in hiding, while i got a second here, i got to say when mike pompeo said that about randi weingarten, he was in fact saying it about hundreds of millions of teachers in this country. think what teachers have gone through the last two years. think of how many of them are making less money than they could in another field because they're driven by service to kids and educating kids, and think about the relationships they need to have with parents. now parents who listen to the right wing are going to start seeing their child's teacher as a danger. because if randi weingarten is a danger, what he's saying is public education is a danger. so it is really, really corrosive over so many parts of this country and that's what was rejected in this election. it's ironic that they're keeping it up. >> yeah, think about this now,

and think about what this toxic environment is costing americans. you talk about teachers. i've heard time and again about teacher shortages. parents are going in, teachers tell me, and they're being far more combative. they're yelling, they're screaming. and it's not a lot. it's not a lot of parents. but it's enough. people that read lies about litter boxes for students. parents that read lies about just horrific things in school. and yes, there are in some places things taught in schools we don't want our children taught. and that's why we have school boards, and teachers conferences and stop it. but you look at what happened with teachers. we have a teacher shortage. is there any surprise when we

have republicans vilifying teachers the way they do. you look at the shortage of nurses that we have post covid. we heard one story after another of nurses and doctors having to wear civilian clothes in the hospitals because if they wore their nurses' outfits, if they wore their scrubs, then, you know, in a super market are going to work, people would stop and scream at them because of stupid conspiracy theories spread again by these freaks, weirdo and insurrectionists on the right. they're not owning the libs. they're owning themselves and making america a more difficult place to live in if you're a teacher or a nurse. they make anthony fauci, they have turned anthony fauci into

this villain. you look at approval ratings of public figures. anthony fauci is still at the top. maybe he's not at 85%. maybe he's in the mid-40s, low 50s, but he's still at the top. it doesn't work. they don't own the libs. they shoot themselves, in the proverbial foot by doing these stupid things because they're living in this bubble. they've got to get out of that bubble for their sake, the sake of the party and for the sake of the rest of us, starting with teachers and nurses. >> if you look in the last year or two, the foundation of the country has been under fire, teachers, nurses, cia agents, fbi agents, teachers when republicans would not speak about the atrocities of january 6th. the foundations, the good guys in the country. going forward, we're going to look at the republican party in two directions, the kevin mccarthy's of the party, the old

guard, which is still the party of grievance. they know nothing else. i do think some of the newcomers and i don't particularly love the desantis's of the world, he stokes some culture war stuff. they're smart enough to figure out, to mike's point, they need to focus on grocery bills, crime, immigration, and i do think we're going to be seeing a tale of two parties, the mccarthy's and trumps, and i think we're going to be seeing new guys, just because they're smart. not because they're decent human beings, they're going to figure out that the party of grievance, the party of anger, hate, is not a winning formula. it's just not the way to win. >> there are a lot of republican senators who are quietly horrified at how the house republicans have started. they're like, man, did you not get the message from the election? you're going to try to keep pulling this party down. like wake up. and, willie, great points about the fbi agents.

what about irs agents? you know, chuck grassley and people on tv said irs agents are going to come to iowa. they're going to have ar-15s, they're going to kick down the doors of middle class americans and kill them. what does that do if you're an american that works for the federal government. what does that do? like, if you're an fbi agent and your job was to go down and conduct a search at mar-a-lago, and donald trump and everybody around trump were desperate to get those names of the federal please whose job it was to go down and do their work down at mar-a-lago, they're desperately working to out them, and so when they do, their lives are in danger. this is, again, it's not really hard to figure out what's going on here. connect all of these dots. there are a lot of people who have to go into hiding, and

republicans, trump republicans, especially, know exactly what they're doing when they say irs agents are coming, and they're going to shoot middle class iowans. or when they, you know, when randi weingarten is declared the most dangerous person on the earth, than xi, putin, by a former cia agent or former secretary of state. connect the dots. paul pelosi, he's the one that gets into the icu because of it. but this reckless rhetoric, connect the dots. it's a part of a bigger plan, and unfortunately there are tragic consequences out there for it. >> how did we get to a place where teachers and nurses are viewed as villains. really? by the way, joe, there's an op-ed in the "new york post" by former attorney general bill barr going after donald trump. he begins by touting some of the

things they got done in the administration, and then lays out all the reasons why he needs to go away saying he just can't win. he's not the kind of candidate who can even forget unite the country, can't even unite the party anymore. barr closes by saying he does not have the qualities required to win the kind of broad durable victory i see as necessary to restore america. it is time for the 45th president to step aside. that's from the former attorney general. >> and we're hearing that, mara gay, hearing that from a lot of people. paul ryan calling himself, what did he say, he's a never again trumper or whatever. never again, whatever he said. he's never supporting donald trump again, but, you know, paul ryan said what has seemed pretty obvious to us, what people around donald trump know, those suburban women, north of atlanta, in the suburbs of philly, in all of the places

that matter most. wisconsin, they're never going back to donald trump. they may never vote for joe biden or another democrat, but they will never vote for donald trump again. >> you know, as we sit here talking about some pretty depressing news in the past hour, you look at the attack in colorado, you think about the target that's on the back of so many americans, transgender americans, gay americans, now federal workers, teachers, the list goes on, and i think the question that we need to be asking is not simply is the trump brand toxic because i think we already know the answer to that, and the american voters delivered a decisive answer on that in this year's elections, the question is trumpism going down with it? and i think that's really the open question. are the republicans who are committed to democracy and to good government, to getting things done, are they also

willing to speak out on behalf of americans who have targets on their back, certainly because they participate in civil society? because they might be a threat to trumpism? are they willing to stand up for their fellow americans and say this is wrong, the way we saw john mccain do all of those years ago when he was talking to republican voters and somebody maligned barack obama, are we going to see that? or are we going to see people remain quiet as americans are pitted against one another, and those who are the most vulnerable have targets on their backs because the question is trump is a toxic brand. does trumpism live on in a way that hurts democracy, and it is up to republicans in large part to make sure that doesn't happen . >> we're seeing potential 2024 candidates trying to adopt the trump swagger and combativeness. we'll see if it fits on other people. it didn't in 2016. mara gay, thank you so much. donny, thank you as well. i know you'll be back in our

fourth hour with a brand up, brand down. we'll see you in a little bit. >> the kids want it. >> you have to get back in the lab and do it. >> the kids want it, that's why i do it. >> he does everything for the kids. still ahead on "morning joe," we'll turn back to colorado springs and what we're learning about the mass shooting inside a colorado nightclub and the warning signs that may have been missed by law enforcement. and ben collins is monitoring the online discourse and rise in anti-lgbtq rhetoric. ben joins the conversation next. also ahead, one of our guests says the pro life movement made a bargain with donald trump, and it has paid dearly. the atlantic's david french joins us to talk through that. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. t. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. before we begin, i'd like to thank our sponsor, liberty mutual. they customize your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. and by switching, you could even save $652. thank you, liberty mutual. now, contestants ready? go!

why? why? only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty.♪ i've never been healthier. only pay for what you need. shingles doesn't care. but shingrix protects. proven over 90% effective, shingrix is a vaccine used to prevent shingles in adults 50 years and older. shingrix does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients or to a previous dose. an increased risk of guillain-barré syndrome was observed after getting shingrix. fainting can also happen. the most common side effects are pain, redness and swelling at the injection site, muscle pain, tiredness, headache, shivering, fever, and upset stomach. ask your doctor or pharmacist about shingrix today.

i look back with great satisfaction on my 32 years of active duty. i understand the veteran mentality. these are people who have served, they'e been in leadership positions, they're willing to put their life on the line if necessary and they come to us and they say, "i need some financial help at this point in time." they're not looking for a hand out, they're looking for a little hand up. my team at newday usa is going to do everything we possibly can to make sure that veteran gets that loan.

♪ my name is austin james. as a musician living with diabetes, fingersticks can be a real challenge. that's why i use the freestyle libre 2 system. with a painless, one-second scan, i know my glucose numbers without fingersticks. now, i'm managing my diabetes better, and i've lowered my a1c from 8.2 to 6.7. take the mystery out of managing your diabetes and lower your a1c. now you know. try it for free at freestylelibre.us this morning, we're learning more about the victims of the deadly shooting in colorado springs. police say the five people killed in the saturday night

attack are kelly loving, daniel aston, derrick rump, ashley paugh, and raymond green vance. police updating the number of people injured in the shooting, 19 total victims, 17 of whom were shot, and as of last night, 13 still in the hospital. we also are hearing from one of the heroes who subdued the gunman. army veteran richard fierro was at club q with his wife, daughter, and his daughter's long time boyfriend, raymond green vance who was killed in the attack. the group was there to see his daughter's friend perform in a drag show. here is fierro who served tours in iraq and afghanistan speaking to reporters last night. >> guy came in shooting, man. he came in shooting. he was shooting, i don't know what the hell he was shooting at. i saw the flash, i dove, pushed my buddy down, fell back behind one of the -- there's a bench seating, and i fell and hit the back there. and i tried to get up.

so i fell backwards and as i hit it, i saw the acu armor plates, he's over there. i don't know if he was shooting yet. i know there was a lull. i saw that and i saw the people in the patio. i found out my wife was out there, because that's where they all had run. i grabbed him by the back of his little cheap ass armor thing, and i pulled him down. the young man, he was hiding there, had jumped up with me. i don't know if he helped pull him down or not. i have no idea, okay. that guy did the same act, amazing. pulled the dude down. pinned him against the side, and just started -- i think he went for his pistol, i don't know, either way, i grabbed the pistol from him, and then i told the guy, move the ar, the kid in front of me. he was at his head, move the ar, get the ar away from him. and the kid did it.

i'm wailing at this dude. i'm on top of him. i'm a big dude, this guy was bigger. i told the kid in front of me, kick him in his head, call 911. the kid i don't know if he was hurt. i don't know what happened with him. but he slowed down kicking. and i'm beating this guy. trying to wiggle, he's trying to get his ammo, his guns. and my -- oh, one of the performers walked by, oh was running by, and i told her, kick this guy, kick this guy, and she took her high heel and stuffed it his face or whatever she could hit. i got into mode, and i needed to save my family. and that family was at that time everybody in that room. and that's what i was trained to do. i saw him and i went and got him. when i pulled him down, told him, i was hitting him. i'm going to kill you, guy. i hit him with the gun.

his gun. not mine. i don't have no gun. i grabbed it. and i hit him with it. i kept hitting him with it. the cop walked in. when he saw me, he must have thought i was crazy. >> and then you were handcuffed afterwards? >> yeah, i got handcuffed but i get it. they dragged me out of there. i think people thought i was the shooter. that's fine. that's fine. they threw me in the car for an hour. i get it. they're trying to sort out what they're doing. i told my soldiers, let's go. we got to get on the next patrol. let's go. nobody in the building is going to do a next patrol. they have to live with this until they're able to deal with it. i feel for every single person in that room. i feel no joy. i'm not happy. i'm not excited. that guy is still alive and my family is not. >> that man saved a lot of lives that night. richard fierro served 15 years

as an army officer. left the military in 2013 as a major. he also is a two-time recipient of the bronze star. the district attorney in colorado springs says the 22-year-old man accused in the shooting is facing ten preliminary charges, five counts of first degree murder, five counts of bias motivated crimes. the department of justice also now determining whether federal charges will be filed here. joining us now nbc news senior reporter ben collins. so ben, what do we know about the alleged shooter here in terms of his online footprint. if you can't find it, nobody can. you're if the dark corners of the intern. what do we know about this guy. >> there's nothing under his name. for a 22-year-old that's not particularly different than most people. young people now tend to have user names thatch nothing to do with their name, are not traceable to their actual name. we do know he made this bomb threat with his mom in the house. there's video of this. his mom took a facebook live of

this happening in realtime. >> this was last year. >> this was last year. and he was let out. here he is arriving back from jail. >> and she called police from inside, and they showed up in tactical gear. stand off for hours. >> and he said he was ready to blow on this facebook live, ready to get into a fire fight over it. >> and obviously he was brought in but prosecutors did not go forward with the case and we're digging through and trying to figure out exactly why that is. >> the case was sealed. that part was not particularly different in the colorado law. i do want to say, though. am i doing something wrong here? here are some headlines that i wrote the last six months. fueled by internet's far right machine, anti-lgbtq rights shut down transevents and drag events. anti-transstalkers at kiwi farms a web site that stocks people are chasing one victim around the world. their list of targets is

growing. that was a couple of months ago. doctors under threat for far right activist for providing trans care. boston children's hospital faces bomb threat after right wing harassment campaign. there were three of those bomb threats. fbi charges massachusetts woman with boston children hospital bomb threat. they found one of the people. 20 republican politicians have claimed that schools are making accommodations for students who identify as cats. that was before the midterms. three more from my colleagues in the last three weeks. is election near some conservative groups ramped up anti-transcampaign ads. gop senator targets tiktok influencer with anti-transagenda -- transgender taunt. what can we do different? there are five dead people in a

strip mall. that's the only place they felt safe. i'm trying to thread the needle here. i'm trying to say this is happening, this targeted stuff has real life impacts. and i'm going to fail, by the way. i'm going to, you know, freak out because it's happening because i wake up and i see that there are five dead bodies. but i think we have to have a come to jesus moment here as reporters. are we more afraid of being on breitbart for saying that trans people deserve to be alive or are we more afraid of the dead people. i'm more afraid of the dead people. i don't want to wake up on a sunday and see all of these headlines came to fruition. >> what do we do about public officials at local levels, state level, federal level, who try to inject the fear of the very word transgender into school issues? a transgender person might be trying to be on your son's or

daughter's softball team. >> and that's the biggest worry right. >> can't be allowed. they're dangerous. why are they dangerous? we never probe the motive of these politicians who cheaply, absurdly, and evilly throw that issue around. >> right. because of the attention economy that we live in. they get more clicks for it. they end up on tucker carlson, tucker attacked my colleague, not me, brandy, of course. but he attacked brandy. and he went right back into this idea that some "they" is trying to groom your kids, trying to sexualize your children, right. who's the "they," first of all, and second of all, all of her reporting was right. all of it was right. >> let me say, you're not doing anything wrong. you're doing your job, uncovering the truth, presenting it, shining a light on it.

the question with so many of issues are the people who need to hear the truth listening, are they reading your reporting. the answer is new york city they're living in a different ecosystem. >> and there was a long history of this. i talked to this woman named jennifer, who's a rhetoric professor at texas a&m, and she was telling me about object that is came up in pre fascist governments. before nazi germany, there was gay people, people who played with gender conformity, and they say they are contributing to the down fall of society. they are the reason that, you know, things cost more, that the crops aren't coming up. right? we have been through this in the past. it's very dark. and the people playing around with this don't take responsibility. they go right back into it. again, these bodies are not in the ground yet, and they are being used as political props

right now. so, look, i am open to feedback. i want to hear how i can tell these stories better. >> you're doing your job, as willie pointed out, ben, sadly b culturally, historically, you've got two items you're selling. one is fear. the other is hope. it's easier to sell fear in this culture. >> and also algorithmically it's easier to sell fear. the hate gets clicks. the hate gets people tuning back in. it gets the hate objects. >> as with so many issues, it may be a game for politicians to get votes. it may be a game for tv hosts to get viewers, for web sites to get clicks but there are people in this culture, there are people in our society who get the signal that's being put out there and are listening when they're told to do something about it. >> yeah, donald trump has written a playbook that a lot of politicians are now following. forget about whether he's in

georgia or out of georgia, whether he should be the candidate or shouldn't be the candidate. he's taught these folks that culture wars win. i mean, ron desantis is embracing this with everything he's got, that somehow making people different than you a bad guy gets people to vote for you. appealing to people's sense that somebody is an "other than" gets people to vote for you. it is terribly depressing and evil, and bad for our country, and i don't think the majority of americans approve of it. and what you get when you embrace culture wars as your main political platform, you get violence. >> ben, we'll give you the last word on this. >> that's exactly right what claire just said. these people are being used as props right now. they're being used as props, explicitly for electoral or monetary purpose. right now, the fact that 12

hours, 24 hours after a shooting there is no inward reflection here, it's just, you know, continue to use these people as props. continue to use the grief of these people as props, i think as reporters we got to look in here, and double down. are we -- who are we afflicting here if not the people who are grieving by not standing with them. and by the way, i really want to say, maura barrett who's on the ground for us, by the way, has done incredible reporting here, and she talked to a person who lived through that shooting. and they called home. and the family members at home said, well, you have to look inward at your degenerate, at your lifestyle. this person just saw five people die and that was the response. and that's because that's an acceptable response right now from the guys across the street at the other cable network, and an entire political party. >> on the other side of that,

richard fierro, the hero who stopped the shooting, who served several tours in iraq and afghanistan, who earned two bronze stars said this to the "new york times," he was there with his wife and daughter and boyfriend at a drag show. these kids want to have a good time. have at it, i'm happy about it, that's what i fought for so they can do whatever the hell they want. nbc news senior reporter ben collins, thank you so much, and thanks for your reporting. we appreciate it. coming up next here, we'll dig into the new op-ed from former attorney general william barr now calling for donald trump to step aside looking for new leadership in the republican party. plus, we will go live to qatar, qatar hosting the world cup for a crackdown on fans and what they can wear to games and the upset. saudi arabia beating argentina a few minutes ago. we'll go there live. s...

i tried everything with diet and exercise, and nothing worked. there was just kinda this stubborn area on my stomach. but coolsculpting worked for me! coolsculpting targets, freezes and eliminates treated fat for good. no needles, no incisions. discuss coolsculpting with your provider. some common side effects include temporary numbness, discomfort and swelling. you've come this far... coolsculpting takes you further. visit coolsculpting.com

i d d so my y quesonons eouout hicacase.y y son, takes you further. cacalledhehe bars s fi i d d soit was the best call eouout hii could've made. takes you further.

call the barnes firm and find out what your case all could be worth.uld've made. takes you further. ♪ call one eight hundred, eight million ♪ and find out what your case all when a truck hit my car,ade. takes you further. ♪the insurance companyed, wasn't fair. eight million ♪ i didid't t kn whahatmy c caswa, so i called the barnes firm. i'm rich barnes. it's hard for people to k how much their accident case is worth.h barnes. t ouour juryry aorneneys hehelpou

i am not a role model. i'm not paid to be a role model. i am paid to wreak havoc on the basketball court. parents should be role models. just because i dunk a basketball doesn't mean i should raise your kids. >> that was hall of famer charles barkley in 1993. he wrote that script himself. he played for 16 seasons in the nba 1984 to 2000. he was a small power forward height wise. but the 1993 mvp and 11-time all-time known as much more than an athlete. joining us now timothy bella

with "barkley: the biography." you write charles wade barkley is as transcendent as he is irreverent. his basketball legacy is as close as someone without a championship ring can get to being unassailable. he changed how fans watched the game. he doesn't like to be called controversial. to many he resurrected what it might to be the voice of the american athlete not seen for decades in a world he considered too politically correct, guarded and comfortable. i think there's a generation of people who know him as the guy on tnt that with the rest of the guys there with kenny and ernie revolutionized analysis of

sports by telling it like it is. man, he was a transcendent basketball player. dominant at the position. >> it's true. thank you so much for having me. he really was this guy who when i was growing up i saw him. i was a short, fat kid who loved playing basketball. i'm like how does he do that? from there i saw this guy who just grabbed his rebounds and just go coast to coast and just slam dunk and hang on the rim like he's the incredible hulk on a swing set and just blown away by this man. so part of this book is just reminding people to only see him on tnt that he was a problem back then, a really special

player. >> it is so interesting. you talk to nba fans now and they look back to players in what i consider the golden era in the '80s and '90s and they go larry bird can never play with this person why the great e players are like are you kidding? he would be my first pick with magic. charles barkley fills out that role. i love this chuck d. quote. these new generations don't understand because they can't believe it but charles barkley was the biggest problem. he was on the court, man. if you were going up against him or people like bird, those people were not nonstop problems. 24 hours a day.

>> yeah. in the case of dr. j, when he practiced with charles for the first time he knocked into him and he got knocked into the stands and after that dr. j told me he stayed out of charles' way because he was so physical, no forceful. he played with so much energy, passion that you just could not contain him. it really resonated with so many people for so long. >> you know, tim, the ad we came in, the old 1993 nike ad, i am not a role model. you should raise your children. people today, most people today would assume, know him from tv. hearing the analysis as willie pointed out with ernie. charles barkley's gift is it not

to present that he's searingly honest? >> he is. i do think that it is his blessing of barkley in a lot of ways that he is honest and that sometimes means he is going to screw up and i do think that his kind of the beauty of who he is, he is going to say things that some people agree with. others will hate and call just inappropriate but he is always himself whether it be speaking to reporters or on tnt each week. even when he is called to apologize sometimes he just won't. but in a lot of ways he is this uncle that america keeps coming back to. in a lot of ways he is teflon.

>> yeah. seems like he was also ahead of his time that barkley was this unfiltered voice almost foreshadowing what athletes could do now. be outspoken and turned that into a successful tv broadcast. as a final question, as you reported out this book what do players in the nba think of him now? there's a mist, larry bird not athletic and nba hands know he is great. what barkley lacked in height he made up for in will. >> it's real split. there are some people who hear what shaq and kenny say and take it as total gospel and then other guys like kevin durant

publicly going back and forth with chuck about some comments of being a bus rider instead of a bus driver. there really is this split amongst his current generation of players toward charles barkley but i think the respect is always there. charles now is in broadcasting longer than he was a player. which is something that no one could have possibly anticipated but he is better at this and that there is that divide there but there is a really healthy amount of respect for what he's done and what he still says. >> you are right. still saying. in a world to figure out whether or not to say things in public kyrie irving, the nba quiet. the players was. barkley said on tv, quote, he should have been suspended.

they made a mistake. i can't believe we're talking about this idiot. end quote. "the washington post" timothy bella, congratulations on the book. it looks great. thank you. >> thank you so much, guys. appreciate it. just past the top of the hour on this tuesday, november 22. jonathan, mike, claire all still with us. joining the discussion is staff writer at "the atlantic" david fromm and david french. good morning to you both. david fromm we were talking about the new piece titled another flop from gop productions writing this. the coming house hearings on biden will be a repeat dose of white water delusion. will not impress voters. there are real questions to investigate in the coming session of congress. why was the biden administration

caught so by surprise at the collapse of the afghan government? what can actually be determined about the origins of the coronavirus pandemic? but all the questions lead to issues of policy and policy is tangled, complicated and difficult why what republicans want is an excuse for the enabling of trump. they yearn to spread the fantasy narrative that biden's attempts are trump family's looting of the u.s. government. fantasies do not survive contact with the reality. joe? >> yeah. david, how many times do they have to learn this? we heard about the durham investigation and going to expose the deep state. durham made a fool of himself time and time again.

a lot of media outlets that i respect on the right made fool of themselves time and time again talking about durham and what he was going to uncover. the election deniers talking about charles barkley. every one of them dunked on like charles barkley. it is a bubble you talked about and you were talking about when i met you in washington, d.c. that time 1994. '95 and '96 we were in a bubble. right? i ran. i was supposed to lose. i get 62%. i go to washington. about 50 or 60 men and women just like me. we are in this bubble and constantly self reinforcing. we turn around and bill clinton at 60% and republicans are hammered in '96 and '98.

we never really learned the lesson. that's happening here with these republicans and astounding to watch from outside the bubble. because what they're doing is so disconnected from what voters just told them a couple weeks ago. >> here's a way to measure that. since the end of the cold war the house changed hands four times. 1994, 2004, 2006, 2016, 2018. two times to republicans. two times to democrats. the two times flipping to the democrats, the democrats won the presidency two years later. two times it flipped to the republicans, they lost the presidency two years later. why? many explanations, of course. one of the most important is democrats used the seizure of the house to set themselves up for the general election to

follow. republicans in 1994 and 2010 talked to themselves. it makes me think of a favorite saying of politics. she tells the story about being on a beach in texas seeing a plane pulling a slogan and said something like, jill, come back. jack. too much about you and not enough about her. that is what it looks like will go on again. too much about you. not enough about her. the republicans are going to commit to the fantasy narrative about hunter biden. sad things but not politically interesting and politically interesting things that republicans can say about biden but they're not true. >> yeah. republicans ran saying joe biden didn't have an answer on inflation. they ran saying he didn't have

an answer on crime. he didn't have an answer on the southern border. okay, great. by the way, you are exactly right. have that investigation into afghanistan. how did the intelligence community get it so wrong? how did afghanistan forces collapse overnight? i want to know that. i want to know more about covid. how was that botched from the very beginning? how was the communication from the government botched from the very beginning as badly as it was? and it was. yeah. you are right. the southern border. investigate. let's talk about the absolute chaos and the humanitarian crisis on the southern border. david french, we are not hearing anything about that. we are not hearing about a health care plan to replace and

repair and replace obamacare which they promised for a dozen years. hunter biden. like i can tell now how the story ends for them. very badly. i have been there. it ends badly. >> what we are talking about in many ways is a post policy gop. this is a party with no platform in 2020 so as david said earlier talking about policy it is tangled and complicated. what are the solutions? the hunter biden thing is deeply connected to anger over 2020. it is very connected to anger over twitter suppressing news of hunter biden. there's a sense that this is the time to get revenge. you can't ignore him now because we are in charge. but nobody outside of the very online spaces of the republican party is concerned about hunter

biden. they didn't vote for him. they know he has no authority in government. so the gop will have to rediscover policy and break from the hold, the very online world has on it. that very online world trance lates into fox prime time and this closed community of conservative info-tainment that drives the gop but there's stock taking going on. there are people who are more open to questions about the course of the party than i saw after 2020. it is connected to that anger over the 2020 election. >> in that particular -- >> we have seen this story before. ten years ago 2012.

mitt romney watched fox new that is told him he was to win. the gallup polls said he was going to win. right wing media told him he was going to win. online. that's why halfway through the night the romneys were absolutely stunned to discover what the rest of us knew. i have known mitt for a long time. i love him and ann and the family. during the race, he stopped coming on our show and he stopped coming on our show not because i was tougher on him than anybody else but that was outside the bubble. this is what republicans did in '12. it's what they're doing right now. >> you very kindly on the thursday after that tuesday vote had me on the show to promote a book i wrote called "why romney

lost." now i write fast but i don't write that fast. i had spent three months writing a book called "why romney lost." it was obvious to me why he lost. the book became successful because of you. how come i saw it and the romney campaign did not? >> i remember in the summer the worse barrage i have ever gotten on twitter saying something about romney's campaign not going well and i was a comi. i think august or september. it was so intelligence. i was shocked because what i was saying is in early september the campaign is in trouble and blasted by people on fox news

prime time calling me all kinds of stuff. i was reporting. i love romney. but they didn't want to hear it. again, it is this bubble. jonathan, you look at what's happening with the house republicans now. not the senate republicans. there are a lot of senate republicans that are already sending up warning signals saying to the house brothers and sisters, you guy need to cut this out but you look at the bubble and both the davids are talking about it so well. these people live in a bubble of election deniers. ends up that doesn't rate so well. that doesn't fill the seats in the theater. you lose if you're an election denier. in the bubble that's all you heard since 2020.

hunter biden since 2020. they're angry. yes, why don't we figure out why wouldn't twitter allow a "the new york times" article about the lap top to go on there? have that investigation. talk about how some things went down the way they did in 2020 but for that to be the singular focus when americans are still concerned after the election about inflation, quality of life issues, crime, about the southern border. talk about them! that's the strengths but they won't do it. >> yeah. there's pressure now of the republicans to do so because they will control the house by a few seats to be sure but they are in charge. a lot of people i speak to in the white house and the democrats feel like this is litigated before. donald trump tried to inject hunter biden into the 2020

election. he tried to -- >> jonathan, really quickly, there were actually in that debate when he started to talk about biden, there were some fire breathing conservatives that wrote entire columns about how they were offended that donald trump was attacking a son who had some serious, serious problems. and it had serious problems his entire life. this is just built to backfire. i'm not doing this to protect hunter biden but to tell the republicans play to the strengths. he is not the strength. >> yeah. they try to make hay a few weeks ago about this newly uncovered voicemail of joe biden but it was the father in pain worried about the troubled son and doesn't seem like something -- this is playing to a small

audience. certain fox news prime time hosts and that's about it and seems that americans don't care. claire, how's this going to play out? republicans are spending early capital on this. waving posters and saying there will be investigations and start a process that could lead to the impeachment of joe biden. how do you think it will backfire? >> you will have if mccarthy makes it one of the weakest speakers in our lifetime because first he went and groveling with trurn and now marjorie taylor greene. he is giving her what he is asking for to get the title speaker. that's not going to end well for him and the republicans. one thing i think we haven't yet

really hit on hard and that is what they're going to be putting on trial is addiction. addiction is a painful thing in motor vehicle. there is not a family in america that is not impacted by addiction. and what happens when someone is addicted. and the pain around that. so when they do these show trials about hunter biden what a lot of mothers and fathers will be seeing is seeing the loved one on trial for addiction and that i think will be more powerful to turn people away from the republican party than anything else they can do. >> yeah. david french, you have written a new op-ed in "the new york times" and you talked about the bargain that the pro-life movement made with donald trump

and paid dearly for that bargain. of course, abortion becoming a key issue in this midterm in a way that the pro life community never imagined. talk about it and also -- we have talked about our church. evangelical movement. had andy stanley talking on talking about how depressed he was on dividing the church on wearing masks and basic science. seen dan darling fired for talking about basic science. i'm starting to hear from evangelical leaders that they regret making the deal with trump. we couldn't say anything. you could have said something. i'm wondering.

obviously trump's destroyed the republican party of my youth and put a pretty good dent in the evangelical church. am i mistaken or does there seem to be some self correction, some understanding that this guy as i have been saying for six years is antithesis of everything that jesus christ said in the new testament? >> yeah. there is a reappraisal going on. sadly it is tied to electoral outcomes than morality. i'm seeing it on the ground. i live in a trump centered part of the country but the 2022 election is making them rethink 2020 and 2018. 2018 they wrote off standard midterm losses. now they know it's not so

standard. 2020 wrote off with the haze with stop the steal. 2022 with inflation and crime higher they couldn't write off at all any way, shape or form and what it did for people is rethink 2020 and 2018. and made them say to themselves this guy is not in fact the model for the future. this guy is not a relentless winner. i wish the repraisals occurred earlier. at least january 6, 2021, should have been a massive reappraisal. we need to have one and glad it's happening now and related to more than just midterms and the article up there is a leader talking to very trumpy republicans and said some hard

truths to them and relates how the room got very uncomfortable. something is breaking right now. we don't always have fevers break for the reason we want them to break. right? but when a fever breaks it's positive results. and i think we are starting to see the positive results now. >> i'm a baptist. we are in the conversion business. doesn't matter. we are playing "just as i am" all 16 verses. let's talk a little bit more about this. and this is a difficult issue to talk about. one of the things that's concerned me so much about abortion in conservative politics and evangelical politics is as i have said on this show the southern baptist

church is pro choice basically. throughout the 1970s. they passed two declarations. one in '70 and one in '74. that changed. they became pro life. i think my friend russell moore in 2003 put something on the floor of the southern baptist convention that changed it. doesn't go back i believe to the bible, to jesus' teaching though i understand why people would be pro life. i only bring that up to say i've always been concerned about people coming forward like donald trump and seen it throughout my entire adult life. the worst human beings on the face of the earth, people who

are not conservative all they have to do is wave the bloody banner of abortion and people and churches fall. he is a man of god. and trump played them like a fiddle. here's a guy pro choice like all the way. but when he decided to run he is like wait a second. the more pro life i sound the evangelicals throw in with me. you are talking about things are changing now. are we going to see the same thing five and ten years from now. will evangelicals be a bit wiser in following the false idols? >> one, i hope so. i don't know. here's some reason for hope on that point. for a long time the pro life movement was focused on the nine supreme court justices. because of the roe decision which i profoundly disagreed

with. it was limited in its ability to protect unborn life. now american law can protect unborn life. the second part of the challenge kicks in which is there's to a pro lifer culture in the united states without persuading millions of americans to change the minds about this issue. and one thing from a pro life perspective for me that's so discouraging is of 27% of americans, second highest priority with abortion front of mind 76% voted against the pro-life position. so that meant and what that told me is there's millions and millions of hearts and minds have to be changed and there's no way to do that through

animosity and vengeance. so that's why i wrote what i wrote and called people back to john paul ii's book and in 1995 about a pro-life theology uses this phrase. the value of the human person. they have to understand the worth of the human person from conception until natural death and a movement of animosity and vengeance doesn't do that. that course has to change. >> david fromm, final thought on the midterm elections and what republicans are or are not learning from it? >> i set it up in the article as a play. i took you back in time to the 1990s where the republicans said do you know that bill clinton is an unfaithful husband?

yeah. do you care? no. the republicans said, what if we told you that they were the master minds of a global criminal conspiracy with drug smuggling? the voters said we would say you're delusion maniacs. that is going on now today with hunter biden. what if we told you he's a mess? that is true. do you care? no. what if he's the master mind of an international criminal conspiracy? the answer is going to be the same. >> david fromm, david french, claire mccaskill, thank you. mike pompeo's stanlts about who he considers the most dangerous person in the world. plus donald trump threatened a third party run several times in the past. will he do it? we'll talk about what could mean for the party and the race for the white house. you're watching "morning joe."

>> i remember the president looking at me and he pointed out the window at the crowd gathering. he said did you see that crowd out there? i said, i did, mr. president. he said, those people love us. i said, those people love you. he said, well, that's probably true. >> the saddest book tour of all time. i've never been healthier. shingles doesn't care. but shingrix protects. proven over 90% effective, shingrix is a vaccine used to prevent shingles in adults 50 years and older. shingrix does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients or to a previous dose. an increased risk of guillain-barré syndrome

was observed after getting shingrix. fainting can also happen. the most common side effects are pain, redness and swelling at the injection site, muscle pain, tiredness, headache, shivering, fever, and upset stomach. ask your doctor or pharmacist about shingrix today.

i d d so my y quesonons eouout hicacase.y y son, cacalledhehe bars s fi i d d soit was the best call eouout hii could've made. call the barnes firm and find out what your case all could be worth.uld've made. ♪ call one eight hundred, eight million ♪

and find out what your case all when a truck hit my car,ade. ♪the insurance companyed, wasn't fair. eight million ♪ i didid't t kn whahatmy c caswa, so i called the barnes firm. i'm rich barnes. it's hard for people to k how much their accident case is worth.h barnes. t ouour juryry aorneneys hehelpou back to politics in a moment but to colorado springs. we know more about the victims of the deadly shooting there and the heroes who took down the gunman.

police say the five people killed in the saturday night attack are kelly, daniel, derrick, ashley and raymond. police also updated the number of people injured are 19 total victims. 17 of them shot as of last night 13 of the victims were still in the hospital. district attorney in colorado springs says the 22-year-old man accused in the shooting is facing 10 charges. five counts of murder, five counts of bias motivated crimes. department of justice determining whether federal charges filled here why there's video of a previous case arrested in june of last year after the man's mom reported that he threatened her. a video shows the man with a

mother dragging a suitcase in the house and telling her this is the day i die. they don't give a blank about me anymore clearly. you see the man walk back into the home after moving the car around the block and then surrender to police. there's no public record the prosecutors moved forward with the case or tried to trigger the colorado red flag law. >> colorado has very restrictive ceiling laws. it means that if a case is filed in a courtroom in the state of colorado and it is dismissed for any reason whether that's because the prosecution dismisses it or the court dismisses it it is automatically sealed. that is a change in the law that occurred in 2019 so only three

years ago and requires us to say in response to questions about it that no such record exists. asking questions about specific prior instances that will be the response. i acknowledge that it is unsatisfying at this point. hopefully in the future we can share more. the d.a.'s office doesn't play a part in the red flag law. that's up to a law enforcement agency and why nobody in this group can answer that specific question and has to be initiated by law enforcement or the public. >> joining us is priscilla thompson. good morning. what do we know today? >> reporter: good morning. we heard a lot last night from the hero, the man hailed a hero

here rich fiero. he served four tours in iraq and afghanistan and spoke to reporters last night as his daughter sat in a wheelchair on the porch. she broke the knee trying to escape after the deadly shooting and he told us what happened. he described a lot of what we heard already. he heard the gunshots, saw the flashes of light and dropped to the ground and pulled the person down next to him and saw the gunman walking to the patio and a lull in the shooting and made the decision to get off the ground and go after the shooter. i want to play how he described it. >> i grabbed him by the back of the little cheap ass armor thing and pulled him down. the young man that was -- he was hiding there jumped up with me. i don't know if he helped pull

him down or not. i don't know. he did the same act. amazing. pulled the dude down. pin him against the side and just started -- i think he wept for the pistol. i don't know. grabbed the pistol from him. and then i told the guy move the ar. i said move the ar. get the ar away from him and then wailing on the dude and on top of him. i'm a big dude and this guy was big dude. i said kick him in the head. i'm yelling 911. somebody call 911 and trying to wiggle and get the ammo or the guns. a performer is running by. i said kick this guy and took the high heel and stuffed in his face or head or whatever she could hit. >> reporter: he said they kept hitting the suspect until he stopped moving and police

apprehended that suspect. i asked him as a veteran how does this compare to the experiences that he had at war. he told me it is the same thing. except he chose to go to war. and the people in club q on saturday night did not choose that. of course among those there the five people who have been identified as those that died including kelly loving described as a caring and loving person. two bartenders that everyone said made it a welcoming and friendly environment. ashley paw here for a day trip and decided to go to club q. she leaves behind her husband and 11-year-old daughter and raymond green vance, the boyfriend of richard the hero there. his daughter and he say that is he was a good kid and as you mentioned we know that the

shooter is in the hospital according to police and arrested on five counts of suspicion of first-degree murder and the bias motte investigated crime counts. police say that he will be released from the hospital in the coming days and then will appear by video at which point the d.a. will move with filing the official charges. willie? >> horrifying tragedy but richard stopped it from being much, much worse. thank you. still ahead on "morning joe," former secretary of state pompeo weighs in on who he believes is the world's most dangerous person. you are watching "morning joe." it's nice to unwind after a long week of telling people how liberty mutual customizes your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. showtime.

whoo! i'm on fire tonight. (limu squawks) yes! limu, you're a natural. we're not counting that. only pay for what you need. ♪liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty.♪

as a business owner, only pay for what you need. your bottom line is always top of mind. so start saving by switching to the mobile service designed for small business: comcast business mobile. flexible data plans mean you can get unlimited data or pay by the gig. all on the most reliable 5g network. with no line activation fees or term contracts. saving you up to $500 a year. and it's only available to comcast business internet customers. so boost your bottom line by switching today. comcast business. powering possibilities. ™

in an interview with a news platform mike pompeo weighed in on the issues he believes to be central to a republican running for president in 2024 saying the ideas include limited government and expanded set of freedoms to protect the capacity of people to practice faith. he added also making sure we don't teach the kids crap in school and went on the to say i get asked who's the most dangerous person in world. the most dangerous is randy weingarten. it would be the teachers unions and the filth they teach our kids. >> come on. >> that's the former secretary of state saying that randy is more dangerous than xi jinping, rudy giuliani, the list goes on. >> is this another harvard boy?

seriously. >> no. west point. west point. >> first of his class. >> we'll look. >> look it up real quick. some of these ivy league boys. what filth did it teach them up there? it is not even serious. if you got problems with the teachers union. went to harvard law. another harvard boy. what do they teach those people in the ivy schools? it is just -- what an embarrassment. how many people that graduated from west point, great americans, proud americans, noble americans, who actually, actually believe what general mcarthur said last time going to west point talking about duty,

honor and country. flinch, flinch. when mike pompeo turns public office into a clown show. he's saying that randy weingarten is more dangerous than vladimir putin? you know, sometimes it's just too much. let's bring in richard haas. he can finish the sentences for me this morning. this camera, right here. look at me. >> i'll get the hang of it. >> would you rather talk about the world cup? >> no. i want to provide historical context. >> seriously, you know, i have

just reverence for people that were honored enough to be able to get the education at west point and joking about harvard boys, i'm a southern state school guy aebs loved going to alabama and florida and a great thrill to go back to the schools. i think about people that had the opportunity to get these degrees where they're able to get -- how they squander it. the bible talks about throwing pearls at swine. they squandered this extraordinary education and west point. this character shaping experience. and you have him saying that somebody running a teachers union because he is now chasing certain voters in a bubble to do

well in the republican primary. saying that she's more dangerous than vladimir putin who invaded ukraine, just kills children and women, mothers, grandmothers, civilians. or kim who targets japan with missiles and south korea? threatens the quite with nuclear extinction. why can't people read the room? why can't he and others get serious? especially given the background. it is really -- it is sad that they're this way. depressing. got problems with what kids are taught in some schools but -- but i've always had those problems and it's a constant battle and fight but equating

teachers union head to vladimir putin? it is just crazy. comment on that and then tell us the most dangerous people are in the world. >> i figured out what pompeo must have been doing the night before making the comments. only thing that explains it is watching "sleeper." if you remember the woody alan character wakes up and says what happens? and the head of the new york teachers union set off a nuclear weapon so clearly mike pompeo is watching old woody allan movies. that's the only way to explain it. i got rejected from harvard. that's my guess. the bigger problem is what we're not teaching in school. would be nice to learn about

civics or the world. i have a long list. vladimir putin is 100 times as many nuclear weapons as kim. i started with him probably more than anybody else. and here i worry about the people threatening american democracy. you talk about them on this show. next, hospitals across the country face a triple threat moving into the holiday season. covid, rsv and the flu. talking to nbc news medical correspondent vin gupta about the viruses next on "morning joe."

i had no idea how much i wamy case was worth. c call the barnes firm to find out what your case could be worth. we will help get you the best result possible. ♪ call one eight hundred, eight million ♪

when a truck hit my car, ♪the insurance companyed, wasn't fair. eight million ♪ i didid't t kn whahatmy c caswa, so i called the barnes firm. i'm rich barnes. it's hard for people to k how much their accident case is worth.h barnes. t ouour juryry aorneneys hehelpou hospitals across the country are being pushed to the brink. they're becoming overwhelmed as

they deal with an influx in patients with covid, the flu, and rsv along with persistent staffing shortages. some hospitals have had to set up overflow tents and activate transfer agreements with nearby facilities to manage the surge in patients. "the washington post" notes of the staffing issues, "more than half a million people in the health care and social services sector quit their positions in september, evidence in part of burnout associated with the coronavirus pandemic." and the american medical association says 1 in 5 doctors plan on leaving the field within two years. nbc news medical contributor dr. vin gupta. it is so great to see you as always. we appreciate you being here and up early with us. these are medical professionals who are the heroes of the pandemic, have been through so much over the last nearly three years and being asked again to deal with these extraordinary conditions, adding flu and rsv now into the equation. how bad is it in hospitals across the country?

>> willie, good morning. great to see you. i'm sitting in the icu here in seattle not far from children's hospitals, and i'll say that in children's hospitals, it's a lot worse. adult hospital capacity right now isn't quite as bad as it was back in the winter of 2020, 2021, but it's important to understand slack in the children's hospitals is by definition always pretty low, one-tenth the hospital capacity for kids versus adults. we'll see now it's completely packed. there are a lot of reasons for that. but basically, across the country, since the beginning of the pandemic, we've seen a 20% decline in the amount of pediatric beds for a variety of reasons. but basically, pediatric beds have been closing preferentially and now we're seeing this rsv surge. this is coming to a head. >> dr. gupta, my son went in a

couple weeks ago and immediately tested him for all three of those you just laid out. explain a little bit if you can, rsv, which i think is probably new to a lot of people, and how serious that can be. >> so, this is another contagious respiratory virus, can cause the common colds in you and i. in most adults, it causes the common cold. if you're medically high risks are over 65, high-risk medical condition like cancer, it can land you in the hospital with severe pneumonia. critically for parents out there with young babies, what this can do is -- and the difference between this flu and covid, they're mimickers of each other, rsv can cause high-pitched wheezing so if you put your ear next to your baby if there's a sniffling and you hear high-pitched wheezing, not a guarantee but high likelihood rsv. nostrils flaring out. chest contractions, their ribs

sucking air inside, potentially rsv. flu, again, none of these things are definitive 100% science of a diagnosis, but flu, high fevers, covid often causes nonpulmonary symptoms, gi issues and brain fog. so a quick tool kit, frankly, to understand what might be actually happening since we don't have that home test as for rsv, covid and flu at the same time. >> dr. vin gup, that great advice. always appreciate you stopping on another busy day for you. thanks so much. coming up, it has been more than a week since four university of idaho students were stabbed to death in a home near campus and still no arrests in the case. we'll get a live report on what investigators are saying this morning. ing. althier. shingles doesn't care. but shingrix protects. proven over 90% effective, shingrix is a vaccine used to prevent shingles in adults 50 years and older. shingrix does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients or to a previous dose.

an increased risk of guillain-barré syndrome was observed after getting shingrix. fainting can also happen. the most common side effects are pain, redness and swelling at the injection site, muscle pain, tiredness, headache, shivering, fever, and upset stomach. ask your doctor or pharmacist about shingrix today.

i try to say for people, it didn't work for five of them. there's five people who aren't