i try to say for people, it didn't work for five of them. there's five people who aren't home right now.

it's thanksgiving. i went through this in thanksgiving in iraq, man. we lost the dudes -- i don't know what else to do. i really hope people kind of use this and shake someone's hand, give someone a hug, give them a kiss. these were good people, man. these were all kids. >> this is richard fiero, a combat veteran, two-time recipient of the bronze star and a hero again after subduing the gunman who opened fire at a colorado nightclub this weekend. we'll go live to colorado springs for the latest on the investigation there in just a moment. we also are following the latest on a murder mystery at the university of utah where four students were found dead -- excuse me, idaho, where four students were found dead in a home off campus. fear in that community mounting as police struggle to get a break in that case. we'll have the latest. and we will go thrive qatar for the latest in the world cup, including saudi arabia's stunning win today over

argentina. one of the most shocking upsets in world cup history. welcome to the fourth hour of "morning joe." it is tuesday, november 22nd. jonathan lemire, mike barnicle still with us for the hour. we begin with new information we're learning about the victims of the deadly shooting in colorado springs and the heroes who took down the gunman. joining us live from colorado springs is nbc news correspondent morgan chesky. good morning. what's the latest there? >> reporter: this investigation still very much ongoing. by all accounts when the gunshots did ring out inside that packed club q, there was absolute chaos, people diving for cover, unsure of what was happening. but for army veteran richard fiero, there was no waiting or wondering. with his own family's lives at stake, he took action. >> i just know i got into mode and i needed to save my family. that family was at that time

everybody in that room. >> reporter: a battlefield he couldn't have imagined, a beloved club where he came with his wife, daughter, her boyfriend and friends for a drag show. when the first bullets started flying, the 15-year army vet, who served four combat tours in iraq and afghanistan, felt his instincts kick in. >> it's a reflex. go. go to the fire. stop the action. stop the activity. don't let no one get hurt. >> reporter: charging through the chaos, fiero said he tackled the gunman who was wearing full body armor, knocking a rifle out of his hands, then wrestling away a handgun, using it to beat the shooter. he says he even enlisted the hem of a drag performer at the club. >> i told her, kick this guy, kick this guy, and she took her high heel and stuffed it in his face. >> reporter: but fiero wasn't able to save his daughter's 22-year-old boyfriend, raymond green vance, who died in the attack. >> he was a good kid, man, and i

loved him. >> i have never encounted a person who had engaged in such heroic actions and was so humble about it. >> reporter: the accuse 2d 2-year-old gunman has been arrested on five counts of first-degree murder as well as several hate-related charges. we're also learning more about the other lives cut short in saturday's senseless shooting, five in all. callie loving, a 40-year-old trans woman described by a friend as compassionate, generous, and trusting. derrick rump and daniel aston were beloved bar tenders at club q. >> it's just a nightmare you can't wake up from. >> reporter: ashley palm leaves behind a husband an an 11-year-old daughter. her cysting saying their family the vansevenant dated. ed sanders, one of 17 people wounded in the attack, grateful to be alive. >> i want some people to show some love to the lgbtq people. we deserve the respect and the

love like anyone does. >> i really hope people kind of use this and shake someone's hand, give someone a hug, give them a d kiss. these are good people, man. these were all kids. >> reporter: this community is showing their support with flower, cards, and crosses near the scene. as for the gunman accused of this shooting, he remains in a hospital in police custody, willie. he's being held on charges but more could come as this investigation deepens. the doj looking into potential hate crime charges but on the murder charge ace loan he faces life in prison without parole. willie? >> joe? >> so, moria, i've been looking since this news first broke for evidence, you usually see online evidence very quickly about motives.

obviously, the police there are taking their time, being very careful, don't want to do anything that upsets the investigation. we certainly understand that. have you had any answers as to why we haven't heard anything specifically about motives, why the charges are still just pending charges as it pertains to hate crimes? >> reporter: yeah, joe. very good question. we do know that we've been told that we anticipate charges officially being filed when this suspect leaves the hospital. as for any evidence of a potential hate crime, i did have a chance to speak to the mayor of colorado springs, who told me that a search warrant was executed two days ago at a home that this man shared with his mother. we were not told what was recovered from that house. we were told that the mother is not cooperating with authorities but that is really the only thing investigators are sharing right now. as they do continue to build

this case, them saying yesterday in a press conference that if hate crimes is part of the motive here, then they absolutely deserve to pursue that, for justice for this community. joe? >> all right. morgan chesky, thank you so much, live in colorado springs. we greatly appreciate it. willie, that is obviously the question often after these crimes, police immediately seize computers, the evidence is clear on social media. i know in this case it's been a little more difficult to trace this suspect's background because he's changed his name and there have been some other obstacles in the way. so we'll obviously be watching over the coming days to see what evidence they get from the shooter. >> our colleague jane collins was here in the last hour saying there's not much of an online footprint for this guy. typically you go boo into social media and see what led them

there. we don't quite know yet. we should find out in the coming days. and it has to be said again, richard fiero, the man who stopped the shooter, saved countless lives with his heroism and the help of other people inside that club. we're grateful for his courage. in idaho, investigators have searched a new area hoping to uncover clues for the quadruple homicide of four university of idaho students. joining us is nbc news correspondent gadi schwartz. gadi, what's the latest there? >> reporter: good morning, willie. the area you just mentioned, it was actually an area right behind the house. they temporarily roped it off. it seemed like for a little while there investigators were trying to get a bead on the entryway and the exitway of the back door there, but at this time there's still no word on how this killer was able to make it in and out of this house undetected.

this morning a new area is the focus of investigation nine days after four university of idaho students were found murdered. police temporarily expanding the crime scene, blocking off this area and parking lot behind the house. >> every investigator involved will continue to put all of their resources and all of our partner agencies' resources into continuing this investigation. >> reporter: meanwhile, as fear in the community grows -- >> i don't even live close by. >> reporter: -- the university of idaho acknowledging some students may want to finish the semester online after the thanksgiving break. >> we're making security our top priority. we are also planning for the very real possibility that some students aren't comfortable returning to campus. >> reporter: fear in the community rampant. jim and pam called authorities to report their mini shepherd buddy was killed and skinned in their yard last month. >> the supervisor came up and

said this was done by a human, not an animal. >> reporter: moscow police say they think the incident is unrelated to the murders. last night, the first of the four friends laid to rest. ethan chapin's family speaking out before his memorial service. >> today we're here to honor the life and legacy of our son and brother. ethan chapin, one of the most incredible people you will ever know. >> reporter: grieving a young life cruelly cut short as investigators look for answers. during that mourning, some of these families say that they are terrified that this is going to happen again. in fact, one of the families that we've been speak to says a family member has been receiving threatening messages online in the midst of all of this. police say they are aware. what these families say they need is this killer to be caught so they can grieve this peace.

back to you. >> yeah. and gadi, that's the real challenge here, isn't it. it's such a tragedy. it's now a tragedy that has an entire community just absolutely frozen in place and fearful. i was just leaving the university of florida back in i guess '90, '91 when the killings started taking place on the university of florida campus. and unrelated, it seemed one after another unrelated. and i guess from what i've read, and if you could tell us a little bit about it, what is scaring the students there and why professors are thinking about canceling the rest of the semester. there just are absolutely no clues right now. the police are baffled. this home was a home where a lot of people came in and out. one sister said that the padlock

combination, a lot of people had it. so it's really been a tough task, hasn't it, for them to even begin to figure out who this killer is or where the killer came from. >> reporter: absolutely. so, they talk about that keypad. the keypad is in the front. the backside is where this backsliding door is. yesterday when we saw them looking that the backsliding door, that seemed to have their attention. but this is a party area. we've got student housing, some apartments over here, some more students down here, then right across the street i can see a fraternity. and then you've got the campus. this is an area where a lot of people were up late at night and pretty regularly, and this was a home of some very popular students. so there were a lot of people going in and out, and for this community right now, it's been nine days of investigating, we haven't heard very much from police in terms of motive, bub for this community right now, they are still in the same place as they were on day one, which

is no suspect, no murder weapon, and still no motive. joe? >> gadi, nine days as you pointed out in between the murders and today. four people killed with a knife. that would have you assume that there's lot of blood, a mess, and you'd also assume the way knife killings go more often than not, the killer also is cut during something like that. do we know -- have they finished cleaning up the crime scene itself or are they still working on it? >> reporter: all we can tell is what we can see outside from beyond the crime scene here, but as you just mentioned, you'd imagine that something like that would be -- would leave lot of blood inside. we know that two of the victims were killed on the top floor, two of the victims on the second

floor, and then the surviving roommates are on the bottom floor. now, whatever happened inside, it does not look like there is a blood trail or an obvious blood trail outside of the home either out the front door or out the back door. as you can imagine, after killing four people inside that's something that investigators were looking for. but you have this area behind the home. it's got a lot of leaves, a lot of trees. there was some snow on the ground. again, you don't see any obvious signs of blood anywhere. so we don't know what happened inside. but the question that a lot of people in this community are asking is did this killer have time to possibly clean up a little bit while inside of the home. right now only investigators know. >> just horrifying. the search for answers continues today. gadi schwartz live in idaho for us. thanks so much. turning to politics now, and a new opinion piece this morning in "the new york post" by former attorney general under donald trump william barr. it is entitled "trump threatens to burn down the gop.

it's time to move on." in it attorney general barr writes in part, "it seems to me trump isn't really interested in broadening his appeal. instead he's content to focus on intensifying his personal hold over a faction within the party, a group that is probably no longer -- no larger than a quarter of the gop but which allows trump to use as leverage to extort and bully the rest of the party into submission. the threat is simple -- unless the rest of the party goes along with him, he will burn the whole house down by leading his people out of the gop. trump's willingness to destroy the party if he does not get his way is not based on principle but on his own supreme narcissism. his egoism makes him unable to think of a political party as anything but an extension of himself, a cult of personality." barr continues, "trump is due credit for stopping progressives' momentum and achieving important policy successes during his administration, but he does not have the qualities required to win the kind of broad, durable

victory i see as necessary to restore america. it is time for the 45th president to step aside." again, joe, that's bill barr writing this morning in "the new york post." again, all the caveats here that bill war stood by donald trump through all this administration, that he misrepresented the mueller report before the mueller report could be presented in all of its context. but here he is now after the fact saying it's time to move on from donald trump. >> several times, too, it somed he was lying before the house judiciary and the senate judiciary committee, again, in pursuit of -- almost a singular pursuit of defending donald trump. he actually put his own reputation on the line. he had a good reputation before going into the trump administration. but now he, like so many others, are turning on donald trump. let's bring back right now former white house press secretary and msnbc host now jen

saki. ryan, religious leader, so many others stepping forward right now, certainly the murdochs it seems. they're ready to move on. you've obviously been required because of your job to follow the political career of donald trump very closely. >> yeah. >> what do you think? >> i mean, i think there are some cracks in the system here, joe, right? we see as you noted a bunch of what i think trump would consider establishment republicans, establishment systems including the media who are rejected him. that's not what his preference is. but as much as there's been a rejection in the election of trumpism, i don't think we know yet from watching him a long time, as you have, whether there is a rejection of trump, because republican primary voters have to pick something else. yes, they are really liking what they see with desantis.

we have seen this before on primaries, including on the democratic side, where there are what i like to call paper tiger candidates. we don't know if desantis is one of these, where it's the party is projecting everything they want onto a candidate. desantis is every magical thing republican conservatives want right now, but it's untested. so to me i think we don't know yet, even though big institutions, media, establishment figures are rejecting trump. >> we should also note that william barr over the weekend, perhaps while he was still drafting this op-ed, said he probably would vote for donald trump again if trump were to be the 2024 nominee. >> good point. >> let's keep this in perspective. jen, we have also heard over the weekend a number of other republicans, hailey, pence, the list goes on suggest that, hey, we might challenge donald trump for president in 2024, but trump certainly has a ceiling as a candidate, it would appear, but he's also got a floor. he's got a stranglehold on a certain percentage of the

republican base. isn't it true the bigger his field gets frankly the better off it is for him? >> yeah, especially if trump can gather all of these republicans into the establishment, the old school, the traditional that i'm going to be different from, that i'm going to speak truth to. and all these people you just mentioned, hailey, pompeo, others, he's done versions of that, too, in the past. so that all could help him. if it's a crowded primary. and he can run as the anti-establishment, ironically, because he's the former president, against all of these more traditional to some degree republicans who want to take him on. >> all right. well, it's day three of group play, and qatar kicked off with one of the biggest upsets of world cup history. i don't know how it couldn't be the biggest upset in world cup history. the tournament favorite argentina fell to saudi arabia 2-1 in a rough start for lionel

messi's bid to win the one major title that has eluded him. messi always seems to underperform on the world's biggest stage. argentina next plays mexico in its second group c match on saturday. megan fit gerald joins us live from doha. wow. all right. i can admit it now, while we were doing the first hour of the show, jonathan lemire was texting me, going you're not going to believe what is happening in qatar. so who knows, maybe i was watching a little bit of it while i was doing the first part of the show. but it's not overstating it, is it. like, this is history. this is as big of an upset as you'll see in the world cup. >> reporter: absolutely right. we're talking about argentina. they just came off a 36-game winning streak. they have soccer superstar

lionel messi and were one of the favorites to win this entire tournament, but it goes to show you how unpredictable these games really are. a disappointing start for team usa in their first world cup appearance in nearly a decade. the americans tying wales in their first-round match after leading the game most of the way. tim scoring the first goal for team usa. just minutes before the end of the game, a penalty kick from wales star player gareth bale. the match ended-1. before the game started, controversy, a journalist taking to twitter saying he was briefly detained for wearing a rainbow shirt in support of lgbtq rights. being openly gay is illegal in qatar. back on the field, all eyes were on the iranian team, use their

match against england to send a statement to the world. the players refusing to sing their national anthem, apparently standing in solidarity with young girls and women fighting for change back home. fans doing the same both inside and outside the stadium. iran lost 6-2, but in some ways for the team it was a win. >> you don't know even behind the scenes what these kids, they have been living in the last few days. they want to express themselves as footballers. >> reporter: it wasn't just iran taking a stand. england taking a knee for social justice. european teams say fifa threatened to penalize players ahead of their plans to wear one love armbands to promote inclusion. england's captain wearing a fifa-approved blue band instead with the words "no discrimination." >> people know what we stand

for, this group of players, we're taking a knee because it's something we feel we can make a difference with. >> reporter: an attempt at creating change on soccer's most powerful stage. joe, we did reach out to fee ta for a comment about what that journalist posted on twitter. we have not heard back from them yet. >> all right. thank you so much. so much happening at this world cup, and quite a bit happening on the field as well. thank you. we greatly appreciate it. jonathan lemire, can't say it enough, one of the great upsets in world cup history. also we just have to say it as well, messi always, one of the great players of all time, but he always underperforms at the world cup. it's just his story. he needs -- i mean, for the history books, he needs to come back as well because this is just the latest chapter in one

disappointment after another for messi. >> yeah. argentina has the weight of history. it's sort of like our red sox used to be, where they would find a way to lose in the world cup. messi did score the penalty kick in this game but seemed underwhelming otherwise. this is a catastrophic loss for them. they're not done. it's just the first game in the group stage, but certainly trouble. joe, briefly, because it happened after we were off the air yesterday, the usa game against wales, it was tied, it felt like a loss. they were up 1-0 for most of that game, let it slip away, and a lot riding on friday's game against england. >> the thing is first half i could not believe how well we were doing. i was calling my son, joey, and we were shocked, and then the second half, you know, wales made all the right -- made all the right adjustments and completely dominated us the

second half. but there were signs of up for the u.s. but you have to say gareth bale, seriously, one of the most underappreciated players. the guy has done it all. and he always -- he's, like, the rodney dangerfield of european football. he never gets the respect he deserves. but once again yesterday, he came through in a clutch where our goalie guessed the right way. >> yeah. >> but bale just, man, hammered that thing home. a perfect kick. >> seemed like the goalie got a finger on it but not enough to totally change its flight. bale was clutch. you knew that was going to go in. the u.s. controlled so much of that game, that you're right, wales adjusted in the second half. it felt like the last 20 minutes were all played in our end. by the end of it, we're sort of lucky we walked away with a tie. we're not done either. >> no. >> prawn is the weak link in our group. by beating them by a lot -- but

boy, thanksgiving weekend, friday afternoon, england/usa, that will be a lot of fun. >> it will be a massive game for the united states because iran actually has a good squad. they were beaten by an england team which actually could end up winning the whole thing. but, yeah, on black friday, we need -- i mean, bear bryant said a tie is like kissing your sister. i don't know about that. but we need at least a draw. we need at least a draw against england or we're going to -- it will be hard to advance out of our group. by the way, you all can keep that bear bryant quote with you as long as you want. still ahead, with growing signs that the republican party might move away from former president trump in 2024, what happens if it's donald trump who decides to break with the gop? you know what, i'm thinking that just might happen. we're talking about it ahead on "morning joe."

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the fear that they have is that donald trump loses the primary but then marches across the stage and declares himself an independent. >> then he gives the left to the country and he doesn't want to be blamed for that. >> you think he has the ability -- >> i haven't talked to him. >> that was former republican speaker of the house paul ryan on abc news on sunday talking to john carl. joining us now, washington bureau chief for semaphore, benji collin, looking into is donald trump's third-party threat looming over 2024. welcome back to the building. good to see you. >> good fob back. >> let's talk about the possibility of donald trump actually making a third party run. people say at the end of the day he's still, from all the protests from paul ryan and mike

pompeo and bill barr, he's still the guy and if he wants the nomination he'll get it. do you think there's a chance that doesn't happen and that he is driven into a third-party run? >> well, there's absolutely the possibility he loses. he starts with a lot of advantages, but this is also a somewhat different situation. he has an opponent, especially in ron desantis, who seems to have a lot of institutional gop support behind him. rupert murdoch's media empire seems to be enamored with him. a lot of republican donors are talking about switching. one thing we know about party institutions and leaders turning against him he has a so-called trump card he can use no wubbels has, that he can threat on the leave and take them with him. he did this repeat lid. every time there was a fear republicans would deny him the nomination either at the convention or by the rnc distaning themselves from him early in the campaign, he would

say on the debate stage, i'm not ruling out an independent run, it gives me leverage. he did the same thing report lid after january 6th when republican leaders were seriously considering convicting him in the impeachment trial. he said i'm going to leave and start a new party. >> so the scenario you lay out, not that donald trump thinks about the party, say he takes 25% of the electorate with him. doesn't that ensure he loses and the republican nominee loses? >> it would be a murder/suicide, yes. the goal of that i don't think would be to win, especially if it's late in the campaign. he probably even couldn't get ballot access in all 50 states or necessarily a majority. but what you could do is get enough ballot access to play spoiler. basically, if it's not my party, no one can have it. we never had the scenario tested of what happens -- we've never seen a scenario where trump concedes. every time he was losing, even individual primary races in

2016, he was using the same rhetoric of 2020, it's rigged, they should redo the elections. that's what we said about the iowa caucus when ted cruz won it. there's no way he would change if he was losing to ron desantis or someone else. >> benji, again, why would we do that. i mean, i'm sure you've talked to other people. mika and i knew donald for a decade before he went into politics. you don't have to spend a lot of time around him to figure this one out dp he would much rather ron desantis lose than win. so say it's ron desantis or somebody else he thinks is insufficiently loyal, i would guess you're hearing from other people that have known him and people in the republican party that they understand that he wouldn't -- he would see desantis winning as a bigger loss and bigger setback than him being able to say, hey, i took ron desantis and the republican party down.

>> yeah. you heard bill barr talking about this. it was from the perspective of psychology, not the perspective of politics. in his op-ed in "the new york post," he said trump has one world. he just cannot concede, accept that someone beat him or is moving on without him, has adulation he did not have, that he used to have. the idea of the supporters lining up behind somebody he hates, it's very difficult to imagine him being okay with that. >> i don't see that happening. jonathan lemire, you wrote the book, obviously, on january 6th, and on donald trump and what a bad loser he is. he's willing to take down american democracy when he lost. why wouldn't he be willing to take down youngkin or desantis or any other republican that won the nomination over him? >> oh, he's going to. there's no chance he would be a team player and bow out.

the campaign's will be his or no one's. some republicans i've talked to in the last couple weeks, partially trying to clear the field. that's one thought. the other idea is trying to get ahead of a possibility indictment. we'll see if that weighs in with merrick garland's decisions down the road or not. some republicans are wondering, maybe he's a candidate now but maybe he won't be, he'll find an excuse to get out of this if he sees he's losing. would that be the other path, if he doesn't blow up the republican party, he finds a way to take his ball and go home? >> it's funny. this was a situation everyone was preparing for in 2016. it sounds extremely familiar, oh, he's got this good thing going with "the apprentice," he doesn't want to give that up, all these deals, also legal troubles, and i'm sure point he'll find a way to declare victory and drop out. it never happened. he kept his core supporters and plowed along. i don't think it's that plausible him making a

face-saving move like that. >> benji, than so much. good to see you. coming up, what do thanksgiving stuffing, snoop dogg, and flap fighting all have in common? they made donny deutsch's -- slap fighting? as a brand? donny joins us. ♪ ♪ well would you look at that? ♪ ♪ jerry, you've got to see this. seen it. trust me, after 15 walks it gets a little old. i really should be retired by now. wish i'd invested when i had the chance... to the moon! [golf ball bounces off rover] unbelievable. ugh. [ding]

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this morning in washington, d.c., the seditious conspiracy trial of five members of the oath keepers is going to start deliberations. prosecutors say the group's founder, stewart rhodes, and four other defendants plotted to oppose by force the peaceful transfer of power on january the 6th. prosecutors say rhodes repeatedly tried to get in touch with the former president donald trump even after january 6th, encouraging trump to invoke the insurrection act and call on the far-right oath keepers to help keep him in the white house, despite the fact he lost the election. also today, a senator lindsey graham is going to finally

appear in front of the grand jury in fulton county, georgia, as part of the investigation into whether donald trump and his allies interfered with the 2020 election. as you know, graham fought this for months and tried to quash the subpoena ordering him to testify about a pair of phone calls that he made to georgia election officials in the weeks following the 2020 election. graham argued the case all the way up to the supreme court, but earlier this month, it upheld the lower court's ruling and lifted a temporary hold on his appearance. graham was originally scheduled to report last thursday, but the date was pushed to today and he's going to have to explain that even the georgia secretary of state, who was a republican, said seems suspicious. let's bring in political strategist and pollster frank luntz. he recently led a focus group for onetime trump voters to get their thoughts on the former president and the man who could

be his biggest obstacle in reclaiming the republican party's nomination in 2024, of course florida governor ron desantis. frank, tell us about the focus group. what are you looking for? what did you hear? >> first we wanted to gather trump voters, and many of these people voted for trump twice. everyone voted for him at least in 2016 or 2020. and we wanted to know where they stood now that he's announced, now that it looks like the governor of florida, ron desantis, will be his opponent, we wanted to know how they felt about the man who they used to idolize and still do but not the same way. it's changed. >> when you ask a group of the republican voters to briefly describe donald trump and ron desantis, let's take a look to see what they had to say. >> first, one word or phrase that you use to describe donald trump right now. >> stay off twitter.

>> jamie from iowa. >> i was going to say the same thing. this new one he's on, he needs to take a break from that one. >> becky. >> narcissist. >> lisa. >> keep doing what you're doing. >> andrew. >> tired. >> john. >> unsettling. >> melody. >> high hopes. >> marie. >> mistake. >> john from north dakota. >> unrelenting. >> kathy. >> still right. >> eric. >> divisive. >> jim. >> i don't ever done. -- overdone. >> john from georgia. >> fighter. >> david from california. >> racist. >> jeff from texas. >> sanctimonious. >> stacy from indiana. >> businessman. >> nancy from illinois. >> calculated.

>> i'll do the same thing now with the governor of florida, ron desantis. i'm going to go in the exact opposite order. >> promising. >> stacy of indiana. >> oh, geez. interesting. >> jeff from texas. >> bad-ace. >> kathy from pennsylvania. >> a leader. >> eric from north carolina. >> hopeful. >> jim from indiana. >> rising. >> john david from georgia. >> fighter. >> david from california. >> promising. >> andrew from south carolina. >> leader. >> john from california. >> visionary. >> melody from washington. >> amazing. >> marie from new york. >> the future. >> john from north dakota. >> no apologies. >> lisa from new york. >> gutsy. >> becky from virginia.

>> future of the party. >> jamie from iowa. >> refreshing leader. >> gregory from nevada. >> future of the party. >> frank, we got some very differing responses there. when desantis it was interesting, promising, visionary, the future. trump, there were some positives but also things like unsettling, narcissist, stay off of twitter, divisive, racist. what does that tell you? >> they're tired. they still appreciate him. they still think he was a great president. that hasn't changed. but they now look at him and see why all this chaos? why all this fussing and fighting? isn't there a better way? and frankly, a lot of them are angry at him for the candidates he supported and his lack of support for them when they needed it most. take a look how much money trump

raised in 2022 and how much actually went to the candidates. if you tell republican trump voters that he raised over $100 million and donated only 15% of that or less to those candidates, they get angry. trump voters are fed up with all the trump-focused hysteria and they want someone different. and they see ron desantis at this point as being different. >> jen psaki, it's interesting. we were talking earlier about establishment republicans turning on donald trump and for donald trump that doesn't mean too much. i gave you a speech following the midterm election, a lot of republicans came up to me. they were trump supporters, voted for him twice. they're exhausted. like frank said, they're exhausted. and then when they start talking about the fact that mitch mcconnell, you know, gave hundreds of millions of dollars, donald trump sat on his money, they actually -- they do get

angry. >> mm-hmm. >> and we think a lot of times that people aren't as focused on some of these -- they are. the base is focused. and that's spreading around, you know, internet like wildfire that trump had all this money, kept it to himself, let these candidates lose. >> yeah. i mean, the words that came up in these focus groups is why they are so interesting, and they're so starkly different. you have trump, as frank said and you said, everyone is basically saying they're exhausted, they're tired. the thematics around desantis are he is promising -- two people used that -- visionary, the future, so much hope in that. i wanted to ask you, frank, you've done a lot of these focus groups. at this point in advance of a presidential primary, were there any concerns that came up from these participants about desantis? and what is your gut on what desantis' path forward is in the

primary given their responses? >> we have polling data, premise, the polling firm asked the question directly of republican voters -- who would you prefer, trump or desantis? and it's a dead heat. so it's not just in focus groups. things have changed. they don't know enough about desantis to be all in with him, but they like what they see. they also know noet he's willing to take on entrenched interests which is what they appreciated about trump and they think he's a very good communicator, which is essential. the devil is always in the detail, and once he becomes a candidate, things could change. my advice to him would be take your time, there is no rush. we all know who donald trump is. he's going to have all these different mind meld moments, all these different meltdowns. you don't have to get involved in that. for the other candidates that are looking, tim scott, chris christie, the republicans have a very strong bench, and we're not

talking about them right now. all we're focused on is every single week this trump vote gets smaller and smaller as they become more and more frustrated with him and his behavior, his persona. i think that's going to continue. >> certainly time is on the side of desantis and other potential challengers. frank luntz, thank you so much. greatly appreciate it. jen psaki as always, great to have you here. we appreciate you. >> good to be here. still ahead, amazon is on pace to lose $10 million this year. but some of its big-name devices. donny deutsch explains why the brand is down. is down. at adp, we understand business today looks nothing like it did yesterday. while it's more unpredictable, its possibilities are endless. from paying your people from anywhere to supporting your talent everywhere, we use data driven insights to design hr solutions and services to help businesses of all size work smarter today. so, they can have more success tomorrow.

♪ one thing leads to another ♪

for adults with generalized myasthenia gravis who are positive for acetylcholine receptor antibodies, it may feel like the world is moving without you. but the picture is changing, with vyvgart. in a clinical trial, participants achieved improved daily abilities with vyvgart added to their current treatment. and vyvgart helped clinical trial participants

achieve reduced muscle weakness. vyvgart may increase the risk of infection. in a clinical study, the most common infections were urinary tract and respiratory tract infections. tell your doctor if you have a history of infections or if you have symptoms of an infection. vyvgart can cause allergic reactions. the most common side effects include respiratory tract infection, headache, and urinary tract infection. picture your life in motion with vyvgart. a treatment designed using a fragment of an antibody. ask your neurologist if vyvgart could be right for you. beautiful shot of new york city. 9:53. 9:54. people go, hey, that's donny deutsch's town. others think, howard stern's town. we have them both. we have donny today.

we're so excited, howard stern is going to be with us to talk in all of his years of broadcasting, howard's always wanted to interview the boss, bruce springsteen. and that just came to be. so howard is going to be with us tomorrow to talk about that extraordinary interview. we can't wait. let's bring in now on his birthday, a special week. come on. this is crazy. saudi arabia wins, and here we have wearing elliot gould eyewear, donny deutsch celebrating his birthday. i ask what could be better? happy 49th birthday, donny. you're looking great as ever. >> thank you, kind sir. >> we're going to go through this brand up, brand down thing. kids across america love it. thanksgiving stuffing. i don't really care for it that much. but you tell me, brand up or brand down the. >> campbell's soup, a big brand

up for stuffing. campbell's soup did a survey on their sides. two-thirds of americans like the side dishes more than the turkey. stuffing came in first. >> wow. >> mashed potatoes second, sweet potatoes third, string bean caseeral, fourth. no cranberry sauce. >> really? all right. >> some things are unexplainable. >> my mom's sweet potatoes are unbelievable. number two, the ad market. donny, i'm hoping the ad market is not going down, because i can tell you, every time the ad market starts to go down, that is the first sign we're going into a recession. >> yeah, you took my story. the really smart ceo of warner brothers discovery came out and said the ad market is worse than during the pandemic. and joe, as you said, the ad market is the precursor, the first thing, because advertising is planning six months ahead. they're seeing a very, very dark next year. ad market down very bad news for

the economy. >> all right. let's talk about amazon's alexa. of course, china and russia and every other snoop's favorite device. analyst alexa. up or down the. >> way down. amazon has lost a trillion dollars in market cap, as you said in the tease, they lost $10 billion in the last year. three of that came from alexa. a lot of people think alexa could be on its last leg. it came aboard ten years ago with great fanfare. it's kind of dragging the entire company down, and it has been a disaster for them. >> you know, it's just so weird. we used to have them all over our house. then one day, jack when he was about 6 or 7 years old, he was like, can the russians hear us through that? i looked and i go, jack, my boy, i think they can. and jack would just go around unplugging them all. we finally just threw them away. what about toyota? you have them brand up. >> brand up. consumer reports came up with their reliability study, the most reliable cars. toyota won bmw -- lexus 2, bmw,

3. thealist on the list, mercedes-benz as far as reliable cars. and number 19 was elon musk's tesla, obviously going in the wrong direction lately. >> speaking of going in the wrong direction, i must say i have never done this and don't know anybody who has done this but you're talking about it so it must be done. slap fighting. why does this even measure? people still doing that? >> no, it's getting worse. dana white who started the ufc is starting a slap fighting division called power slap. >> come on, man. >> you just two guys standing there. >> i don't want to see this. geez. >> by the way, i think fox is picking up it. they're going to have sanctioned fights, weight classes. this is just stupid. we don't need this. just watching two guys there, a doctor from the university of washington said this could cause brain damage. >> that can't be. >> i thought we would throw this

out to the table because we're sports junkies here. he wrote a new letter to rob manfred trying to get on the hall of fame. put what he did wrong, he gambled, a lot of not necessarily upstanding citizens in the hall of fame. i vote brand up, put him in the hall of fame. >> mike, what do you think? come on, put him in the hall of fame. >> i think put them all in the hall of fame. put clemens in the hall of fame, bonds, and put it on the plaque. >> all right. jonathan lemire, final thoughts to you, my friend. >> mike barnicle and i did not engage in any slap fighting before the show, i just wanted to clarify that before we hand. i agree with mike on the hall of fame. put them in, put an asterisk on it. i'm going to throw it back to mike here. he has noted what today's date is. one we should not lose sight of. >> a date of infamy that we still live with the

repercussions of it. john f. kennedy was shot to death in dallas, texas, on this day, november 22nd, 1963. >> there are so many times when things happen in this country and people say, well, it's a tragedy but we'll move beyond it. actually, so many historians look at that date and say it divides the 20th century. it divides even where we are right now, our culture, into everything that happened before that moment on november 22nd, 1963, and everything that happened after. it changed this country forever. that does it for us this morning. jose diaz-balart picks up our coverage right now. >> good morning. 10:00 a.m. eastern, 7:00 a.m. pacific. this morning, we're learning more about the five people hao were killed in the shooting at an lgbtq nightclub in colorado springs. we're also learning about the heroes who