right now on "andrea mitchell reports," courage under fire. a decorated army veteran putting his life on the line to take down the gunman accused of killing five people and injuring dozens more at a popular lgbtq nightclub in colorado springs. the hero speaking out after being identified by local authorities.

>> i just know i got into mode, and i needed to save my family. that family was at that time everybody in that room. that's what i was trained to do. i saw him and i went and got him. this hour, a full docket of legal issues. the january 6 cases, the investigation into election lies and the mar-a-lago documents, all in play today. jury deliberations continuing in the seditious conspiracy trial of the oath keepers. lindsey graham scheduled to testify. the government asking an appeals court to dismiss the special master overseeing the mar-a-lago documents. i will discuss iran's crackdown against their own citizens. drone sales to russia for the war in ukraine. tehran's acceleraing nuclear

program. good day, everyone. i'm andrea mitchell in washington. we learn more about the heroes at the lgbtq nightclub and the people who did not survive. tributes are pouring in for all five victims. raymond green, kelly loving, daniel aston, derrick rum much and ashley paugh. >> guy came in shooting. he was shooting. i don't know what he was shooting at. i saw the flash. i dove, pushed my buddy down. i fell behind one of the --

there's a bench seating. i fell and hit the back. i tried -- when i tried to get up, i fell backwards. as i hit it, i saw the acu, it was over there. i don't know if he was shooting. there was a lull. i saw that and i saw the people in the patio. i found out my wife was out there. that's where they had run. i grabbed him by the back of his little cheap-asss armor thing. he was hiding there. he jumped up with me. i have no idea. that guy did the same act. amazing. pull the dude down. pin him against the side. just started -- i think he went for his pistol. i don't know. either way i grabbed the pistol from him. then i told the guy, move the ar, the kid in front of me. he was at his head. i said, move the ar. get it away from him.

the kid did it. i started whaling on this dude. i'm a big dude. this guy was bigger. i kept whaling on him. one of the performers walked by or was running by. i told her, kick this guy. she took her high heel and stuffed it in his face or his head or whatever she could hit. okay? this is in colorado springs, man. this [ bleep ] ain't right. >> it's just incredible. joining me now, maura barrett, clint watts and joyce vance. those powerful comments from him and the details from local officials, they are filling in the blanks. what more can you tell us? >> reporter: you can see the memorial behind me growing. tributes pouring in for the victims and those injured in the shooting over the weekend. you named the victims we learned

yesterday from local officials. they shared photos shared by families that want to remember the legacies of their loved ones they lost. daniel aston was a 28-year-old trans man who was a bartender and entertainer here at club q. he felt most liberated. derrick rump was sassy and honest in the best way, his friends say. that's why they loved him. kelly loving is a 40-year-old trans woman. she was a caring person. ashley paugh is a mother and wife. capping off a day trip with her friend. she had gone to the club with her friend to see a comedy show. she leaves behind a devastated 11-year-old daughter. raymond green is a 22-year-old with his girlfriend and family to celebrate a birthday over the weekend. his girlfriend's father is the man who you heard from who was that hero that stopped the shooter from taking so many more lives. as we are learning more about these victims and the lives they

impacted, people are starting to recover from their injuries. 18 at least injured and recovering in the hospital. barrett hudson was at the site of the shooting over the weekend and spoke with lindsey riser. he was shot several times. he told her about what he experienced. take a listen. >> seven bullets went into me. i am so thankful. i am very thankful. all seven bullets miss mid organs, my spine, my kidney, my colon. saturday night, i thought i was dead. my last phone call was to my father. i told him i was probably going to die, i had been shot. i have so much hate, so much love in my heart over this situation and how we could prevent, stop this with gun laws in the future. i don't know how many more times this has to happen. >> reporter: a lot of raw emotion still running high. a lot of speculation about how

something like this could have been prevented legally. we are learning more about the suspect. we have just confirmed that the 22-year-old suspected gunman had changed his name when he was a teenager. he was formerly known as nicholas brink. we know he was arrested on suspicion of five counts of murder as well as five charges involving bias motivated crimes. that could indicate a hate crime. he is recovering in the hospital from the injuries. we know he will be arraigned via video as soon as he is discharged from the hospital and booked into jail here in colorado springs. the d.a. said they intend to prosecute this to the fullest extent to make sure everyone is held accountable. >> clint, i want to draw on your military experience. let's play more of what we heard. talk to you on the other side. >> i used to tell my soldiers, get on the next patrol. let's go.

get out there. nobody in that building will do a next patrol. they have to live with this until they are able to deal with it. i feel for every single person in that room. i feel no joy. i'm not happy. i'm not excited. that guy is still alive and my family is not. >> clint, he just jumped into combat. a dangerous environment. he did everything right. he did everything instinctively. talk to me about that experience. >> it's incredible. i can't imagine how many lives he saved. we have seen this before with ar-15s. despite his actions, we still have many people dead, many people wounded. just imagine what would have happened if he had not jumped up and run right at the shooter. it shows instincts and the thought process -- the lack of thought process and he just

reacted instinctively to the shooter and did what needed to be done. just amazing scenario. thank god he was there that night and was able to save lots of people. it just speaks to the bigger challenge that we face in this country. why would any unarmed individual in america have to face off at any moment against a person dressed in body armor with an ar-15 and a handgun? it's the craziest scenario we continue to go through year after year in our country. we cannot expect people to naturally want to charge a machine gun, which is what that man did, saving lives. that's not how we will stop this problem. we have to look at, what is the frequency of these attacks? this was an assailant known to law enforcement. how was that person able to get a weapon? were there indicators that were out there? what could we do? comes down to impact. that person has body armor and ar-15 and a handgun. that's what the law enforcement

officers have. they are equally armed to the teeth, as if they are in the military. except they are here in our country shooting people innocently. we have not addressed this for many years. again, the solution wasn't a good guy with a gun. it was a good guy risking his life based on his experience in multiple combat zones that stopped a greater tragedy on that night. >> joyce, we are so used to covering mass shootings and the gun issue. i'm trying to get my head around the hate issue. the conspiracy theories, the online activity and what can twist a mind to be so hateful. affect it has on all the people, the survivors, to know that just by their very being they are hated and that someone would want to kill them for being who they are. >> so that's why it's so

important that we have hate crime statutes that permit us to prosecute the people who are accountable for these tragedies. but the problem here -- it's one that both clint and maura point to. here it's too late after the mass shooting has already occurred, when we have the capacity to act in advance to prevent these sorts of crimes, to do a better job of keeping the guns out of the hands of people who are inclined to use them in this way. we are lucky that there was a good guy without a gun who wasn't afraid to take action in this situation. that's a terrible burden for our government and for our elected officials to impose on individuals. we have lived through just most recently a term of the supreme court where they have made it easier for individuals to have guns, including the type of gun used here, in public places. the trend in the law is not a trend that's more protective. we see public officials engaged

in hate speech, we know that that hate speech, unfortunately, translates into actions like this by people at the margins, people who have, whether it's some form of instability or whether they are just completely eroded by hate, who will take a gun and turn it on innocent people out trying to enjoy a night with each other. it's a situation we need to end. >> he had been arrested on several hate crimes. the whole issue of how people get reported, what families do and how people go under the radar when they need to be stopped immediately. maura, clint, joyce, thanks to all of you. next, the verdict watch. the trial of five oath keepers facing seditious conspiracy charges in connection with january 6 now in the hands of the jury. under oath. after a long legal battle, republican senator lindsey graham just finished testifying

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the high stakes january 6th oath keepers trial is in the hands of the jury. stewart rhodes and four others are facing seditious conspiracy theories for their role in the deadly attack. the potential prison sentence, up to 20 years. the verdict could signal what might happen next month in the january 6 related trial of the proud boys. i'm joined by ryan reilly, nbc news justice reporter who has been covering this. the jury has been deliberating for several hours. my communication from the jury? any idea, any notes to the judge? >> not yet. there's a lot of evidence to deal with. you have five defendants. this started 50 days ago. the jurors have been going through hours of deliberations. we had a trial that was

interrupted by a covid diagnosis from stewart rhodes at one point. we had interruptions and evidence for jurors to look at. it's something that could take a little while for jurors to mull over the evidence and weigh the charges. it's the biggest shot that the justice department has taken in any of the cases. a lot of these cases have been more simple in terms of the evidence is straightforward. someone went into the capitol. they are charged with these crimes. it's a single defendant. this is more complicated than we have seen any case of january 6 to date. >> we know the seditious conspiracy is a hard charge to prove from past trials. >> that's right. the first time we have seen this in decades in d.c. it's very infrequently used. it was used when the capitol was attacked back in the 1950s. that was a charge that was used.

there's a podcast. it's a big shot for the government to take here. >> ryan reilly is all over it. thank you so much. efforts to overturn the 2020 election are the focus of a georgia investigation. fulton county, geogeorgia, the r witness, lindsey graham. he just concluded his testimony. the d.a. likely asking about the calls he made to election officials in georgia regarding absentee ballots and the infamous call donald trump made to brad raffensperger asking him to find votes, find 11,000 plus votes, enough to win. joining us from atlanta, blayne alexander. lindsey graham went in through the garage. we didn't see him go in or out. his testimony is secret. we have no idea what he said. he tried so hard not to testify, going up to the supreme court.

>> reporter: for more than five months, andrea, we saw this legal back and forth between his legal team and the fulton county d.a. he did testify today for 2 1/2 hours. i want to talk about that timing. the fact that we know he arrived earlier this morning. left about 11:30 or so. we believe he was inside for about 2 1/2 hours. when you compare that to some of the other testimony that we have seen, the longest that we know so far is rudy giuliani. he was inside for a little over six hours. putting those two side by side. we do know that the fulton county d.a. wanted to talk to lindsey graham specifically about a couple of phone calls that he made to the secretary of state, brad raffensperger, about absentee ballots in the state of georgia. all of this kind of plays into the bigger picture, into the interference or alleged interference in georgia's elections. what's notable about the fact that lindsey graham came forward today is that he represents a

person closer to former president donald trump. we have seen georgia officials come forward and testify. we have seen a number of the so-called fake electors. the fact we hear from not only the highest ranking elected official but the only u.s. senator is notable when it comes to the fact that the fulton county d.a. mentioned she's wrapping up this investigation but she's not ruling out a subpoena of the former president himself. >> blayne alexander, thank you so much. it's deja vu back here in washington as another special counsel is taking on investigating former president trump. the justice department's probes into january 6 and the documents discovered at mar-a-lago will be overseen by jack smith. there are key differences as compared to the mueller probe. trump is no longer a sitting president. bill barr is no longer the attorney general who undercut mueller's recommendations by misstating his conclusions

before the special counsel could present them. joining me is andrew weissman. it's good to see you. been wanting to talk to you about this. i know you know him. tell us, who is jack smith? what kind of prosecutor is he by reputation? >> i know jack from having overlapped with him in the eastern district of new york where when he started i was actually the chief of the criminal division. he is a smart, tenacious prosecutor. knows his way around the courtroom. he is adept at knowing what to follow and what not to follow. focusing people on what's important and not letting them get distracted. i suspect, although people are worried about delay caused by the appointment of a special counsel, i think ultimately, this is going to lead to the investigation speeding up, because that's the kind of prosecutor jack is. >> in terms of the cases,

mar-a-lago, i think you have said this, probably is more clearcut. the evidence is developed. they are almost handing it to him. he has to make judgments about it, maybe follow leads, as compared to january 6. is that fair? >> yeah, absolutely. i think if we're going to see an indictment in a short term, it's on the mar-a-lago case. it's not there won't be a continuing investigation on the january 6 investigation, but that's a longer term process. that is a difference in the mueller investigation where we had to create a team and there was not a lot that was done. we were starting basically from scratch. that is not at all what's happening here. here he is inheriting two investigations. one that seems quite advanced, and he is inheriting what is an extremely good team. he is in a different circumstance. >> he can use the justice department prosecutors, the

investigators, because otherwise he would have to hire and get national security clearances on the mar-a-lago instances for all these people. that takes a while. >> yeah. absolutely. he by all accounts will inherit the team currently in place. there's no reason not to. the agents and the prosecutors seem to be doing a fine job. they have the right experience. they actually have been steeped in the investigation. you can tell from the argument that's about to happen in the 11th circuit, it's the same staff there. they are not being replaced. there would be little reason to do that. we could see jack bring in additional people. we will have to wait and see whether that happens. >> i was watching you with rachel. you were making the point that you think that jack smith should communicate more with the public along the way, not do a full comey, which you said no prosecutor would really endorse as he did with hillary clinton.

at least explain what he is doing maybe when he makes that recommendation, get out in front of it, even though he is not facing an attorney general who would do what bill barr famously did, which is to pre-empt the mueller probe by mischaracterizing it publicly and getting a two or three-week advance on it. >> yep. i think that's really important. i look back to the archbald cox example. this takes judgment when to speak and how to speak. your phrase of not doing a full comey is wonderful. here is an example. donald trump is going to say that he is a victim. he is saying that. he is vilifying any investigation. if prosecution happens, he is going to say it's political and he has been treated unfairly. there would be nothing wrong with jack or the department explaining the doj precedent where people who did lesser crimes than donald trump had been prosecuted.

that is the case. there are numerous people who did things that are far less egregious than what appears to have happened at mar-a-lago who have faced criminal prosecution. i think it would be really important to educate and enlighten the public as opposed to letting donald trump essentially have the one voice and the only voice that's heard directly from as opposed to you and me trying to replace the department of justice's voice by trying to balance the story by those additional facts. >> thank you so much. it's great to have your perspective, your expertise. up next, playing political football. how the white house is prepping its defense for a republican-led house intent on unleashing investigations. could it energize the biden offense? that's next. you are watching "andrea

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(woman 1) i just switched to verizon business unlimited. it's just right for my little business. unlimited premium data. unlimited hotspot data. (woman 2) you know it's from the most reliable 5g network in america? (vo) when it comes to your business, not all bars are created equal. so switch to verizon business unlimited today. my most important kitchen tool? my brain. so i choose neuriva plus. unlike some others, neuriva plus is a multitasker supporting 6 key indicators of brain health. to help keep me sharp. neuriva: think bigger. just days after securing the house majority, potential speaker kevin mccarthy is promising to investigate the biden white house and kick

leading democrats off of their committee posts. among them, intelligence committee chair and trump impeachment manager adam schiff, who was asked about mccarthy's threat on abc on sunday. >> i suspect he will do whatever marjorie taylor greene wants him to do. he will adhere to the wishes of the lowest common denominator. if that person wants to remove people, that's what they will do. it's going to be chaos with republican leadership. >> joining me no -- it's boston globe senior opinion writer kimberly adkins store and peter baker. first of all, how is the white house preparing, peter, for these incoming attacks? we should point out adam schiff

is on the january 6 committee. he is a trifecta of opponents or adversaries as far as the trump team and kevin mccarthy are concerned. >> that's right. the white house has known is was coming. they expected there to be a more robust republican ma juror. they have been hiring and rethinking their -- the counsel's office has been rethinking their strategy for a while. we saw a refusal to participate in congressional oversight when trump would argue, why should i abide by subpoenas? the biden people will think this is all political, too. are they going to abide by subpoenas and cite the trump precedent? are they going to abide by them as previous presidents have in keeping with tradition and the norms going forward? the republicans in the house

have only themselves to look at if, in fact, biden stiffs them. they accepted and supported president trump when president trump stiffed the democrats when they were in charge. we are in a situation where it's interesting to see what oversight will look like. it's always political. it looks exceptionally now, particularly with president trump running against president biden and seemingly pulling the strings with kevin mccarthy. there's a really larger question here about the system and whether the system will be permanently broken or not. >> one of the questions that i have, peter and kim, is how much this freezes the white house? from talking to officials in clinton and obama administrations, junior staff had to hire lawyers. nobody helped them pay for that. nothing else could get done if they just get a blizzard of subpoenas. kim? >> that's right. it can make it very difficult to get things done. it can be time consuming and

expensive for the people who are the subject of some of these investigations. one thing i can expect that house members -- the house majority would do is target the justice department. they have set to do that. we have seen marjorie taylor greene calling to de-fund the part of the doj that are responsible for the investigations into trump. that is something that's going to cause a headache not just for the white house but for doj and merrick garland as well. it will be interesting to see just how leadership handles these calls to go after the biden administration and anyone who has seen fit to investigate donald trump, especially given the midterm results. it was not as big of a majority as they were planning on. we saw voters not only respond to issues like inflation and immigration but really reject

this sort of politicking in politics that led to this idea that the doj or others were acting in an impermissible way and really supporting democracy. if they go fully on that, it's hard for me to see that kevin mccarthy won't be able to see, this is going to be bad news for us in 2024 if we don't try to work with the democrats to pass something on economic policy, something on immigration policy, instead of just being on the attack or just obstructing joe biden. voters didn't seem to like that in 2022. i can't imagine they like it more in 2024. >> peter, also in addition to what you are going to have from kevin mccarthy, in order to get to 218 and become speaker, he will have to make a lot of deals with people like marjorie taylor greene. also, you have the 2024 wanna-bes. mike pence saying last sunday to chuck todd that the supreme court abortion ruling, the dobbs

ruling was the most consequential achievement of the administration. mike pompeo, the former secretary of state, who knows about foreign enemies and adversaries, demoniing the head of the teachers union and calling her the most dangerous person in the world. really? more dangerous than kim jong-un? >> yeah. mike pompeo negotiated with the taliban that became the basis for what president biden did. he knows about negotiating with bad actors. it does seem like he think that. there's politics going on. pompeo is trying to position himself as champion of conservatives in an increasingly crowded presidential primary field. same with mike pence. he wants to own the dobbs decision for a republican

primary electorate. you can make the case that the trump/pence administration is responsible for the dobbs decision, having put three supreme court justices on the court who overturned roe v. wade for an anti-abortion constituent constituents. we have seen there's a backlash among some voters to the overturning of roe v. wade. that would be something where mike pence would have explaining to do if he got there. we are a long ways away from that. you are seeing early positioning of the field with one large figure still looming over it. that's donald trump. >> indeed. kimberly and peter, thank you. happy thanksgiving to you and your families. at white house, dr. fauci and what he says is his last appearance in the briefing room

and this job as he prepares to leave the administration in december after serving under seven presidents, the head of the national institutes of allergy and infectious diseases, urging americans to get their covid boosters and their flu shots. >> when i see people in this country because of the divisiveness in our country of not getting vaccinated for reasons that have nothing to do with public health but have to do because of divisiveness and ideological differences, as a physician, it pains me. because i don't want to see anybody get infected. i don't want to see anybody hospitalized. i don't want to see anybody die from covid. whether you are a far right republican or a far left democrat, it doesn't make any difference to me. >> that's because he is a doctor. he is a scientist. dr. fauci has dedicated more than 50 years of his life to government service from the fight against hiv to, of course, the covid pandemic. next, world cup controversy.

american journalist grant wall says he was detained before yesterday's u.s. match in qatar for wearing a rainbow shirt supporting lgbtq rights. his experience and what top u.s. officials are saying today about freedom of expression next. that's on "andrea mitchell reports" on msnbc. hell reports" on msnbc. thankfully, we also have tide ultra-oxi with odor eliminators. between stains and odors, it can handle double trouble. for the #1 stain fighter and odor remover, it's got to be tide. (woman 1) i just switched to verizon business unlimited. it's just right for my little business. for the #1 stain fighter and odor remover, unlimited premium data. unlimited hotspot data. (woman 2) you know it's from the most reliable 5g network in america? (vo) when it comes to your business, not all bars are created equal. so switch to verizon business unlimited today. it's the subway series menu. 12 irresistible subs. the most epic sandwich roster ever created. ♪♪ it's subway's biggest refresh yet!

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in qatar for the world cup, tony blinken, an avid soccer fan, criticized fifa's decision to threaten players supporting gay rights. qatar's laws refuse gay relationships. he spoke out with qatar's foreign minister. they have been criticized for the laws. >> it is always concerning, from my perspective, when we see any restrictions on freedom of

expression. it's especially so when the expression is for diversity and for inclusion. in my judgment at least, no one on a football pitch should be forced to choose between supporting these values and playing for their team. >> before he spoke, while covering the world cup, american journalist grand wall was detained by security staff for wearing a rainbow shirt in support of lgbtq rights, to the u.s. open against wales. joining us is grant wall. thanks for being with us. you were told by fifa and u.s. soccer officials wearing a shirt with a rainbow flag would not be a problem. take us through what happened. >> yeah. that was ahead of the tournament when they said they told them rainbow flags, rainbow shirts were not a problem here. i arrived at the stadium last night for the u.s. game wearing

the shirt that you just showed with a rainbow around a soccer ball supporting lgbtq issues. immediately was not allowed in by security officials who told me it was because of my shirt. they demanded i take the shirt off. i refused. right after i got a tweet off, forcibly took my cellphone and kept it for 30 minutes. i kept asking to get it back. they wouldn't give it to me. they made me stand in front of a cctv camera, presumably someone on the other end rendering judgment. i told them, this was not good to do this. eventually, the security commander came and allowed me to go in and keep my shirt on. it went from there. they apologized, fifa apologized and left me wondering about what

it's like for qataris who are gay, because this is something i had to deal with at an event covered globally. >> what's happened to those players who have worn the armbands? >> they decided not to wear them because fifa said they would get a yellow card penalty if they did wear the one love armbands. so the european nations that had announced they were going to be doing this pulled back. if you get a second yellow card, you get suspended for a game. that's a significant issue connected to the tournament itself. i have real issues with fifa threatening this kind of punishment. it's not specifically in the rules to do this. it sends a terrible statement to the rest of the word. >> i want to ask you about soccer. obviously, we played to a draw last night. it didn't have to be.

it was the men's team coming back after not having been in the world cup last time around. what do they need to know against england, which is a powerful team? >> yeah. it's a bigger match than it was going to be. it's going to have an audience in excess of 20 million viewers in the u.s. on black friday, 2:00 p.m. eastern kickoff. it means a lot. the u.s. should have won last night's game against wales. they led until late in the game. gave up a penalty. wales equalized and so the u.s. gets one point instead of three. it's not a sky is falling moment, but it's a huge missed opportunity for the americans just because they were very frustrated. this was a game that they probably should have won. >> grant wall, thank you very much for being with us today. i know you are going to continue to speak out and do your job covering soccer at the same time. it should not be a conflict. thank you. next, iran in the spotlight. new concerns over iran's uranium

enrichment. tehran says it will enrich more plus helping russian with drones. the british ambassador to the united states on that and a lot more coming up. stay with us. you are watching "andrea mitchell reports" on msnbc. " onc . ethnicity inheritance, nigerian east central from you. benin. my dad's side. there's 30% japanese. thank you, mom. i love how it gives you a little bit of history. yeah! i feel like reading this, like, these are my roots. there's just still so much to discover. discover even more during our holiday sale. (vo) with their verizon private 5g network, associated british ports can now discover even more precisely orchestrate nearly 600,000 vehicles passing through their uk port every year. don't just connect your business. (dock worker) right on time.

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visit findyourindependentadvisor.com iran is taking a big step in its nuclear program, increasing its enrichment of uranium and use of advanced centrifuges at two sites. tehran has begun enriching uranium to 60% purity at its underground fordow nuclear site. it's a big step toward being able to produce weapons grade uranium. joining us now is the former ambassador. it seems that iran is getting increasingly closer to having enough nuclear fuel for a weapon. is it possible that we're getting to a point of no return

here and that israel or some other power, even, you know, the u.s. and its allies might feel that they need to take action to restrain iran? >> well, we were pleased that the international authority that looks into atomic energy was able to pass its resolution. i think the decision that we've learned about today on what iran is doing really proves what a risk to global security iran is, as you say. we are talking to our partners and allies about the best response to this. but i will point out that a nuclear deal has been on the table since march, and we really would urge the iranians, even at this late stage, to show that they're not a global threat and to take that deal. otherwise we will have to think about the consequences and we are increasingly worried about what iran is doing. >> and also in terms of ukraine

and russia, iran is helping russia build drones, we've confirmed that for the war, further deepening the russia/iranian alliance. how concerning is that? >> i think that's concerning. also on humanitarian grounds, killing civilians with these pieces of equipment as well as on geostrategic and defense grounds. i think it's interesting that iran denied that their drones had been sent recently for use in ukraine. that would suggest that iran does understand what a heinous thing it is to do to enable these attacks on ukrainian civilians. so even, you know, at this late stage, i do think iranians need to contemplate how they too may be guilty of crimes against humanity by supplying these weapons to the russians. >> your new prime minister was just in kyiv meeting with president zelenskyy and announcing a new package of air

defenses, so the uk is putting a lot of resources in at a time when you have budget problems at home. >> yes, that's right. but as you know, the prime minister repeated our very strong support for ukraine, for all that president zelenskyy is doing to push the russians back and out. he was proud britain had stood with ukraine from the start. i think that's very much the sentiment of the british people, to be honest. notwithstanding the problems of the british budget and the economy at the moment on which the government is working hard, there is quite bipartisan support in continuing help for ukraine. the prime minister was also able to offer reconstruction help in the form of building projects, to house some of those without homes, and he was also able to offer humanitarian assistance to help ukraine itself get through the winter. and we will carry on doing so. >> you spent a lot of time with

the russians across your diplomatic career, especially at the u.n. of course. how are you reading vladimir putin? is there any reason to think that he would sit down for meaningful negotiations with zelenskyy? >> well, you're right, andrea. all my career i've worked with russians and americans for several decades. and i don't recognize, i'm afraid, i don't recognize the russian leadership from the one that i grew up with in diplomacy. the one that i grew up with in diplomacy, we had very many disagreements with. we disagreed with their human rights approach, we disagreed with a dangerous form of communism, but that russia at least had respect for certain international norms and for its status on the security council as a permanent member. what we see now from president putin is much more of a gangsterish approach, without respect for the international

order and without respect for the rules that russia helped to create. whether or not president putin would come into negotiations, i don't know. but i do know that the -- this conflict can't end without some sort of settlement. and that will require president putin to stop his illegal conflict in ukraine. i don't think we can get away from that. you know, ukraine is going to carry on resisting, and ukraine is doing pretty well at that difficult as it is. so president putin can't win, quite apart from the fact it was an illegitimate aim to start with to try to take over a sovereign country, to try to subdue its people and pretend they didn't exist as part of this recreation of the russian empire. that's not a legitimate aim in the 21st century. but i don't know how president putin would get himself to negotiations, having said some of the things he said.

>> thank you very much for sharing with us. we appreciate it. a very happy holiday season to you. and that does it for this edition of "andrea mitchell reports." thank you for being with us. remember, follow us online on facebook and twitter @mitchellreports. happy holiday to everyone. chris jansing reports starts right after this. g repo rts star s right after this it has long-lasting light scent, no heavy perfumes, and no dyes. finally, a light scent that lasts all day. downy light!

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